Acrofighter questions

[yuiopdude]

'Aight, I haven't been playing for long, nor do I know many of the terms used IN PSU, but I do know that I've settled on being a Beast Acrofighter... Anyway I have some questions

A: In "End game" (Level 150, lvl 20), does the difference between the races stats matter? Are they Really that far apart?

B: As an Acrofighter, WHAT should I be doing and using? Right now I have a lot of 1 handed weapons (4, 1 of every type [Claw, dagger, saber, slicer], and each a different element [I'm missing cold and lightning]) and even MORE R-Mags (1 sonichi (lit), 1 Ebrozike (Cold), and 4 yactdikes (dark, light, fire, ground)), I also have a twin handgun, for when I REALLY need range (rarely used though).

I like R-Mags because I don't have to WORRY about trying to use them, they just happen, and do their thing without me thinking about it, and I like the Yactdike (9*) over the Ebrozike (10*) because it hits multiple times, doing more damage.

So, as an Acrofighter, should I just keep going with what I'm doing (focusing on 1 handed weapons), or should I grab a good pair of 9* knuckles also?

I'll post my pallet here soon.

Aight, here's what I've got

Level 74 Beast
Level 11 Acrofighter

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And my Pallet:

-Halp Serafi (25% fire) 0/10, PA: Shunbu Shouren-Zan, Level 17
--Yactdike (26% fire) 0/10

-No melee (Either a Cold Claw or a Cold Saber)
--Ebrozike (17% Cold) 0/10 (need to change this, probably to a yactdike with a better cold %)

- No Melee (Want a Lightning element slicer though)
--Sonichi (27% lightning) 0/10, and the reason why I want my melee weapon to be a slicer, the Sonichi knocks back)

- Shura-Hiken (26% ground) 0/10, PA: Chikki Kyoren-Jin, level 19 (workin' for the frags to get the other PA)
--Yactdike (14% ground) 0/10 (needa get a better ground % one)

- Black heart (14% light) 0/10, PA: Gravity Strike level, 14 (want a better one, both in light %, and PA)
--Yactdike (24% light) 2/10 (probably the one that I've had the longest)

-Zanshu-Misaki (26% dark) 2/10, PA: Senten Kanzan-Ga, level 19 (probably the one I do the most damage with)
--Yactdike (26% dark) 0/10

And my Line is: Rabol Lumirus (23% ground) with an electro heart (the only thing I have ATM)
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Again, I'm a bit of a Noob, and my friend that plays can't answer any of my questions because he... well... he's kinda stupid >.>....

So, if the pallet is an eyesore, sorry for that, tell me what I need to improve upon, and what I should be looking for when it comes to weapons and armor, and the best way to do so (money is an issue, I really can't just "get" it quickly, I don't know how). Weapons I prefer are Claws, then Sabers, Then slicers, then Daggers... And Knuckles are between claws and sabers.

Thanks in advanced!

[-Morgan-]

well the problem is that your a beast acro. your mags arnt even gona do half of wut a human or newman can and humans get a 5% stat bonus with the class the damage wtih the melee weapons makes almost no diference at that point acrofighter gets loads of tp for a reason but yea humans tend to be the unltimate acrofighter if ur gonna use it the way its set up to be with mags n all

[yuiopdude]

*shrug* I don't care, Either way, any other race is "Technically" better at being an acrofighter then Beast

Humans have a better tech AND get the 5% increase to stats
Newmans have a MUCH better tech (albeit, a much lower ATP)
and CAST have a better ATA to use guns (either the handguns or twin handguns), without that big of a cost to ATP, plus they have the SUV weapon

I'm not HAVING a problem playing the type, What I don't do in ranged damage I make up for in melee, I just want some guidance as to Weapons, Armor and Photon Arts. I know a ForteFighter beast is a better option, but I tried that and didn't like it (lvl8 forte), got hit too much >.>...

Again, I use R-Mags over Handguns because you can "Use" both an R-Mag and a melee weapon at the same time, Only really good people can incorporate both a Handgun and Melee weapon at the same time for good, if not better, damage output.

EDIT: OH! Another question! Best place to find Mot Walna? I know S/S2 rank Moatoob missions, but which ones are the better one? (Like I can even solo those yet, just want to know)

[Magus_84]

As far as PAs go, I find Bogga Zubba, Ikk Hikk, Cross Hurricane, Assault Crush, Hikai, Renzan, Rensan and the two Slicer PAs all really useful.

[yuiopdude]

As far as PAs go, I find Bogga Zubba, Ikk Hikk, Cross Hurricane, Assault Crush, Hikai, Renzan, Rensan and the two Slicer PAs all really useful.

Bogga Zubba: Amazing boss killer, and damage dealer in general (though it has a "slow" activation time)

Ikk Hikk: Hilarious and amazing single target damage.

Most of the others I have NO idea what you're talking about (other then the slicer PA's) I'm guessing Assault Crush is the Frag saber PA?

[kejen]

Just like I tell everyone that comes here posting low % S rank weapons. 14% blackheart? Throw that in the garbage where it belongs. Get some 42%+ buccaneer. Saw a 42% dark for 300k earlier. That's goes for everything, don't even look at S rank stuff. You *might* find a better deal on shura-hiken than kubiri-hiken though. High % kubiri can be in the 5 mil range. Definitely get gudda gants in all elements, blumier for single dagger, lumiess blau for twin dagger. zaks gabot has more atp than any S rank claw. Heavy twins for twin saber.

And for armor, until you can afford some decent storm lines, delette line. Or any A rank armor you can wear with a good %. Rabol lumirus is garbage and only the people that went fighmaster that have no business going fighmaster wear them. You have many more options.

[miko00014]

Bogga Zubba: Amazing boss killer, and damage dealer in general (though it has a "slow" activation time)

Ikk Hikk: Hilarious and amazing single target damage.

Most of the others I have NO idea what you're talking about (other then the slicer PA's) I'm guessing Assault Crush is the Frag saber PA?
If I remember correctly Assault crush is the 10k PA from weapon shops,it's the one that is basically just 2 vertical sweeps finished with a little stab/charge at the end.It's also annoying to level

[yuiopdude]

Just like I tell everyone that comes here posting low % S rank weapons. 14% blackheart? Throw that in the garbage where it belongs. Get some 42%+ buccaneer. Saw a 42% dark for 300k earlier. That's goes for everything, don't even look at S rank stuff. You *might* find a better deal on shura-hiken than kubiri-hiken though. High % kubiri can be in the 5 mil range. Definitely get gudda gants in all elements, blumier for single dagger, lumiess blau for twin dagger. zaks gabot has more atp than any S rank claw. Heavy twins for twin saber.

And for armor, until you can afford some decent storm lines, delette line. Or any A rank armor you can wear with a good %. Rabol lumirus is garbage and only the people that went fighmaster that have no business going fighmaster wear them. You have many more options.

Hurk... sorry, you talk as if 300k and 5 mil are nothing >.>... I have a harder time acquiring money, I won't complain that I'm too low a level, because that shouldn't be a problem... It's just trying to find the best place, and the best way, to make money for me. I barely have 70k at the moment.

I WILL keep that in mind though, High % lower grade weapons > Low % S grades (I'll also have to test it out, you know, is how MUCH of a difference it makes)


If I remember correctly Assault crush is the 10k PA from weapon shops,it's the one that is basically just 2 vertical sweeps finished with a little stab/charge at the end.It's also annoying to level

Yea... later on that evening, I looked them all up, so I got a good idea what they all are.


Now, again, should What should I change about the pallet... I should apparently get some knuckles (I already have a 15% ground Gudda Gant... whoopty-doo), and what PA's are the better choice? I've looked at them and am leaning toward the ones that have a small amount of hits, but hit hard (last hit is over 400% normal damage), but should I be looking at some of the ones that hit fast and weak (usually have 6-8 hits in the combos, but only do a max of about 250% normal damage)

[Gibdozer]

Don't be afraid to use 2-handed a ranks with your acrofighter, just pick the weapons that appeal to you visually as well as statistically. I also advise the quicker more movement oriented PA skills like the 50 frag twin dagger skill, the 10 frag twin claw skill, and the single dagger and claw skills. Acros are ment to be elusive targets not frontline crushers, so focus on evasion and acuracy over defense or attack power. Lastly learn to dual wield, it is an essential skill with the Acro, far more effective than R-mags. I've only maxed out 3 melee classes but of Acro, fighgunner, and fortefighter the Acro has obvious combat superiority!

[Zyrusticae]

To answer question A:
The difference in the races is frequently overblown - a 130/20 Newman female FF has 1498 ATP vs. a male beast's 2054 - a sizable difference, but not large enough to make the Newman obsolete (and it's the single largest difference you'll ever find in the game), and the Newman makes up for it with higher ATA (which means less 0s, obviously) and a sky-high MST. Also note that the difference in DFP between the two at such a level is a mere 31. (That said, beasts and CASTs still have a one-up on the other two for having blast badges and SUV weapons...)

[yuiopdude]

...Lastly learn to dual wield, it is an essential skill with the Acro, far more effective than R-mags...

I figured this to be the case, as I said though, I'm kinda new, so I'll be workin' on that a little later. Also, if you don't mind the noob question, How so? I'm just goin' on the fact that one can use both an R-mag and Melee weapon (lovin' my Frost R-mag by the way, freezing in mid combat is nice!), and have them hit at the same time... But I can see how a handgun with a high level PA could be more effective at controlling the battlefield (because the PA's get better SE's as the PA level increases, right?), but aren't you technically still doing more damage from a 3 shot of ~150 (I'm a beast) and your normal hits, as opposed to switching to your gun at a range, and firing, then heading into melee with only your melee weapon attacking?

Here's an interesting concept though... why not twin handguns at a range, then switch to a melee/R-mag in close range? that way you get the best of both, technically speaking.

Are there any bullet PA's I should worry about getting (by way of Frag bullets), or are the element PA's just good enough that I don't have to worry about collecting PA frags for them?

[miko00014]

Well when using a handgun with a single handed melee weapon, the gun allows you to keep damaging enemies at a constant rate, whether the situation be for just to get closer to them, when something like another monster's dambarta is in the area, or when a monster gets launched away, the handgun can be more useful than a R-Mag.

[Ruru]

seems to be a slight misconception with Rmags going on IMO. Rmags are better used for the status effects they inflict moreso than the damage they do.

as for your palette.
first off what system are you using? PC/PS2/360? on PS2 quite a few PA's are gimped because of frame skip and dont work as well as they do on PC.

anyway. my weapons/PA's of choice for AF

single Saber
Blackhearts: 1.rising strike. 2.spinning in some cases (bil de vears) gravity strike i dont recommend.

single daggers
halp serafi/shiraha-zashi: 1.buten (if on ps2. PC users usually prefer shunbu over buten) 2.shunbu(works better on PC, mostly sucks on PS2) 3.hikai(second hit sucks on ps2)

single claws.
daiga-misaki(ice) zanshu-misaki(dark) zaks gabot(9☆tenora): 1.bukuu saiyan zan 2.senten kanzan ga.

slicers:
shura hiken/hikec, sanzu hiken all are good not a big difference in attack: chikki and choutou are both good preference/situational

Rmags
sonichi fire, frauduke: attack down on sonichi fire helps alot. burn and freeze are both really nice added effects on fraudukes. remember the damage on hit isnt a big deal, its the status effects that matter.

knuckles
gudda gant, grentacle: 1.bogga zubba no explanation necessary it just owns :p 2.ikk hikk or bogga robado (preference) 4.bogga danga not that great.

twin sabers
twin DB(high%/high grind) or 9☆GRM twins (forgot name atm): 1.assault crush (hard to level but packs a punch and gets EASY to level after 21) 2.cross hurricane and rising crush (preference, hurricane levels fast and has tons of hits but easy to get knocked out of) 4.splendor crush... mostly just for show. it sucks for damage.

twin daggers
lumiess blau and yohmei 9☆ are both good choices not alot of difference in damage or pp really.: 1. renkai buyou zan (great for small/medium enemy groups) 2.hishou jinren zan (great for large enemies/bosses knocks smaller enemies away too far on ps2) 3.moubu shouren zan/renga chuujin shou (both good PAs renga is flashy and hard to connect until you learn how to use it.

twin claws:
ran-misaki/tenora 9☆ twin neiclaws: 1renzan seidan ga (its nice and fast strong ending) 2.rensan (forgot rest of the name :p. has a pretty nice combo ending with a powerful few hits) bukuu and chuei are both kinda sucky. chuei is more for show.

twin handguns/handguns
twin ruby bullet/ruby bullet and any 10☆+: all elements you can get for both. dont worry about PA frag skills for these

this is all opinion from my experience as a CAST AF i probably forgot something but oh well @.@

[yuiopdude]

I'm on the 360, that's where my friends play, so that's where I am.

So you're saying, though, that the R-Mags are good for the status effects (which I can understand), meaning I should look for Ebrozikes (10*) and above because they use a penetrating beam? (which could, potentially, hit more enemies at once.) And if they aren't meant to add that much damage, does the Element % matter as much as it once did?

[miko00014]

As far as I know the % would only affect damage, though I don't remember if anyone ever figured out if they increase status %s. That said though, I think sonichis always inflict status(or have like a 99% chance),which is why I really want an ice sonichi.

[biggabertha]

I could've sworn Graldikes were the 9* GRM RCSMs...

The advantages offered by RCSMs from A rank to S rank are quite different - S rank RCSMs fire a single laser quite slowly, I think once every four to six seconds. A rank RCSMs fire either at the same rate or slightly faster but they fire three shots at a time than once.

As for the elemental percentage... I remember hearing that it offers a more successful rate at inflicting status effects but I could've sworn that there was a similar rumour about how Status Effects are govenred by your ATA. Which has got to be lies since I see on YouTube how some male Cast Gunmasters can still take ages to kill robots with Killer Shot 50


I'd highly recommend you to pick up a Sori/Tech Charge head unit though, for the +280 TP (or was it more...?) it provides if you're going for the damage from RCSMs.

I don't really know the full DPS figures for Acrofighter but I do know that ridiculously fast and accurate PAs should be your bread and butter. Assault Crush, Hikai Shuha-zan, Shunbu Shouren-zan, Bogga Robado and Senten Kanzan-ga should be quick and accurate enough even for a Beast.

Assault Crush is a very powerful and fast PA, once you get it to Lv. 21, you can really start laying down some impressive damage very quickly - just watch out for the insane amount of PP it uses (60PP a combo...?) but since it takes less than two or three seconds to pull off a full combo (Just Attack the final combo!!) it should be exceptionally powerful in a short amount of time.


At the end of the day though, roll with what you can afford and what pleases you. What works for other players may not work for you. In response to your statement about deciding against being a Fortefighter, it's good that you chose a class more suited to your liking rather than going for optimal output determined by your sex and race. I would never be able to do that without a heavy amount of complaining.

[Hrith]

Element % does not affect SE affliction rate in any way.

ATA does not affect the affliction rate in any way, either, but higher ATA means less 0, which means better odds of inflicting an SE; but the success rate of the SE itself is unchanged.

Only the level of the SE determines its success rate.


Higher % on RCSMs does mean higher damage, but weak or weak+, tough choice...

[miko00014]

Also if your mainly using melee weapons, look into getting a giga / skill pp save, or a cati / skill pp save, as those will lower the amount of pp per melee pa by a good bit. Though the cati will cost a lot more and you will need an S rank armor first.

[yuiopdude]

I could've sworn Graldikes were the 9* GRM RCSMs...


yes... yes they are... Yactdikes are the 7* ones (I found out, to my unfortunate dismay)


Also if your mainly using melee weapons, look into getting a giga / skill pp save, or a cati / skill pp save, as those will lower the amount of pp per melee pa by a good bit. Though the cati will cost a lot more and you will need an S rank armor first.

I have the S rank armor... I think the only thing my armor is missing is a head slot... doesn't effect the skill saves, i don't think, but it effects me trying to get a good head slot tech booster (one that doesn't kill my MST anyway), though, that's one less thing I have to worry about trying to get with this armor (should still get it, just in case...)

And I think I will stick to using RCSMs, I just prefer them over handguns... and it's funny to say that my beast bar got charged by/I killed the boss with an RCSM shot.


S rank RCSMs fire a single laser quite slowly, I think once every four to six seconds. A rank RCSMs fire either at the same rate or slightly faster but they fire three shots at a time than once.

Yea, and it's the reasons why I like A ranks better, 3 shots = up to 3 hits = up to 3 hit stuns on lesser enemies, plus the chance of a status effect. The only thing that I *THINK* S rank lasers have is that they're SE's are a higher level, but they fire slower (1 every 5-6, as opposed to 3 every 3-4, I've counted), and the projectile is MUCH slower (which makes it hard to hit flying/faster things).


Now, something else... traps, use them, abuse them, just say no? Are they worth it to try to place and use right, I don't think we get some of the better ones (like the ones that stun or freeze)... They don't cost much though, which is a plus.

[Ruru]

the thing about lasers is they penetrate and can hit all enemies in a line. but the triple shot ones help alot because of their firing speed so its all preference.

as for traps. ehh... i hardly use them on AF and they arent needed. we dont really get any good ones except virus G but you can only carry 5 and space is already limited as it is.

also hunt badiras in sleeping warriors S2 for a while. they drop [B] storm line 10☆ armor with all 4 slots, and you can get nanopolymer right there in the same run to make them. or just make money doing whitebeast or something to buy armor.

best head slot unit available for AF right now is sori tech charge 280 tech and the extra pp usage on techs has no draw backs for an AF. if you get any armor with head slot be sure to get one of these.

[yuiopdude]

the thing about lasers is they penetrate and can hit all enemies in a line. but the triple shot ones help alot because of their firing speed so its all preference.

as for traps. ehh... i hardly use them on AF and they arent needed. we dont really get any good ones except virus G but you can only carry 5 and space is already limited as it is.

also hunt badiras in sleeping warriors S2 for a while. they drop [B] storm line 10☆ armor with all 4 slots, and you can get nanopolymer right there in the same run to make them. or just make money doing whitebeast or something to buy armor.

best head slot unit available for AF right now is sori tech charge 280 tech and the extra pp usage on techs has no draw backs for an AF. if you get any armor with head slot be sure to get one of these.

1: I just prefer the 3 shot, it's faster, with a faster projectile (that's one of the large things I look for)

2: That's what I thought, didn't think they were really worth my time

3: Oi... you say that so "Matter-of-factly," Still remember that I'm only lvl 76, can't get up there into the S2 ranks, much less solo them, but I'll keep that in mind. Also, what makes White Beast such a money maker (other then it's easy and the Meseta drops on A rank are over 1000 all the time)?

4: yup, I plan on picking one of those up for just that reason... heck, even if I don't have a head slot I'll keep it around for when/if I do get one (like one of those lines)

[Ruru]

pretty sure 76 can enter sleeping warriors S2. the enemies are only 106. if not 76 then i'm sure level 80 can enter. and you could easily solo everything but the svaltus in the last block, just have to play it safe. and if a psycho wand board dropped you'd make a lot of money if you sold it.

as for whitebeast. it seems to be a fairly good money maker. enemies drop a good amount plus the end run bonus for S ranking it. and it would help get you levels to do higher ranks.

also on a side note. the older missions have a lot lower level requirements to get in to S/S2 compared to AotI areas. even if the exp/mp is lower, lots of good rares still drop.

[biggabertha]

3: Oi... you say that so "Matter-of-factly," Still remember that I'm only lvl 76, can't get up there into the S2 ranks, much less solo them

*Shakes fist...!*

Back in my day without the Acro classes, RCSMs, Slicers and reduced traps, missions were run practically solo on a daily basis!

You young 'uns..!!

And yes, you can enter Sleeping Warriors S2 at Lv. 75 so you meet the requirement easily.

As for soloing the mission, Ice Slicer, Dark Slicer, Ground single handed weapon and stick to whichever RCSM you've decided on. That or dual wield your weapons - Bogga Zubba takes care of one of the three large creatures there - Assault Crush, Rising Crush or even Rising Strike will take care of the other two.

The map's easier than you think - unless you're half asleep or bullied into playing it.

[yuiopdude]

Huh... well shoot me in the face then...

I'll go try that out... uhm... where exactly is Sleeping Warriors... or... more so... the quickest way to get there? Because I think it's on Parum, because I think I've seen it before...

[Ruru]

raffon field base on parum. its the base after mad creatures from east holtes.

[yuiopdude]

*Shakes fist...!*

Back in my day without the Acro classes, RCSMs, Slicers and reduced traps, missions were run practically solo on a daily basis!

You young 'uns..!!


You know, to tell the truth, I don't see HOW you could get ANYWHERE before AotI... All the missions sucked for mission points, and the monsters were low levels, even in S and S2 ranks... Heck, did you even HAVE S2 ranks before AotI?

Heh, anyway, I'm at Sleeping Warriors now, this should be interesting (though I was able to do Mad Creatures S2 pretty easily)

EDIT: GRK... well, I DON'T have a dark slicer... and I now see why that's preferred... Those three at the end SUCKED! (and the scape doll cost was not fun), I find it interesting, though, that you can infinitely loop that, since the ending lobby is the same as the beginning lobby, but I don't think I'll be doing that again until lvl 80 or so. All the way up to that point was pretty easy though, a bit annoying with those jumpy chicken things, but nothing that can't be handled (Got a dark claw and a cold saber, and 26% ground gudda gants, those helped against the electric big guys.)

[stukasa]

You should definitely use every melee weapon available to you, they're all useful in different situations. I actually use more 2-handed weapons than 1-handed ones. Here are some of my favorites:

Knuckles: These are *amazing* on an AF! Be sure to level Bogga Zubba and Bogga Robado if you can. Note: Only use the first part of Robado, the last two parts just slow you down.

Twin Daggers: I use Moubu on medium-sized enemies and Renkai on groups on small enemies.

Twin Sabers: Rising Crush and Assault Crush. Personally I like Rising Crush because you can juggle dangerous enemies like Vahras with it.

Twin Claws: Renzan Seidan-ga. Fast and damaging, this PA is a good one to have.

Dagger: Buten Shuren-zan is one of the most important PAs you can have, and useful in every mission.

Saber: Rising Strike is probably the most useful saber PA, but they're all good and worth getting.

Claw: Bukuu! It's great on groups of small enemies (even more so if you have the 10* claw that freezes enemies).

Slicer: Both PAs are good, and since AF is the only class with S-rank slicers, you might as well level them both!

About R-mags: If you're using S-rank R-mags, the best element is ground because it can stun. FYI, A-rank ground R-mags have a different status effect!

I always keep a pair of twin handguns on me for various situations. Don't bother with any frag PAs for your ranged weapons, the elemental bullets are better.

My palette usually looks something like this:

Twin Handguns
1-handed weapon + R-mag
1-handed weapon + R-mag
2-handed weapon
2-handed weapon
2-handed weapon

(it varies from mission to mission though)


You know, to tell the truth, I don't see HOW you could get ANYWHERE before AotI... All the missions sucked for mission points, and the monsters were low levels, even in S and S2 ranks... Heck, did you even HAVE S2 ranks before AotI?
That was when the game was actually sort of challenging! When most people didn't have any S-ranks or high % weapons, when fighters didn't have Just Attack, when rifles didn't have knockdown, and when Jarbas were actually something to be afraid of! And yes, we had S2 ranks on most of the missions. :p

[Ruru]

i lol'd about the before AotI bit.
yes the game was alot less rewarding when it came to exp/mp even meseta but it was still fun. not nearly as easy and fast(as in getting exp/mp/meseta and constant S rank rares) as it is now but the old version had its own flair.

also you have to remember the lvl cap was alot lower before AotI so some lvl 106 enemies were still challenging.

[-Morgan-]

at the end of the day nothin in acrofighter can out damage a slicer with choutou and a decent range mag i can put up 4k+ with my choutou and my r-mag does around 800+ per enemy with my sori tech

[kejen]

300k really should be pretty easily attainable by you now. You're high enough level to run areas that give 10 mil+ items.

And you will eventually see that 5 mil is also nothing in this game. Luckily acrofighter weapons are cheap and easy to make.

And no cati pp save. I never used that garbage in my life, no idea why people use those. Use cati / power for now.

But gunmaster + laser does more damage than acrofighter + choutou.

[Hrith]

You know, to tell the truth, I don't see HOW you could get ANYWHERE before AotI... All the missions sucked for mission points, and the monsters were low levels, even in S and S2 ranks... Heck, did you even HAVE S2 ranks before AotI?We did have S2 missions before AoI (all of them, too), but we did not have Acrofighter...

[-Morgan-]

But gunmaster + laser does more damage than acrofighter + choutou.

WRONG! you could never hope to do so ive never seen a laser cannon hit over 4k ntm the first part of coutou does over 1.5k easily and does it twice AND fast

[kejen]

Yes, but laser cannon is wider, also fast as hell on gunmaster. With my gunmaster and level 41+ dark laser can smoke a pack of kakwane before they even get to me. Make a video of you doing that with choutou and I will agree.

Not to mention aiming is goofy with choutou. One to the left, one to the right, and the last one is really funky.

Btw, you ever notice with choutou, with bosses the second hit sometimes has a bug? Does the same damage as 3rd hit. Only with bosses though, and not always.

[-Morgan-]

its nowere near as fast or as damaging and choutuou is VERY easy to control and yea that glitch happens all the time with normal monsters too it happens when u critical it yourself i can do it at will

[biggabertha]

its nowere near as fast or as damaging and choutuou is VERY easy to control and yea that glitch happens all the time with normal monsters too it happens when u critical it yourself i can do it at will


x.x; Laser Cannon is stronger against 3 individual targets than most melee PAs.

Laser Cannon is stronger against 4 individual targets than a lot more PAs including Shotgun.

Laser Cannon is stronger against 5 individual targets than Anga Jabroga, spamming of the first two parts of Dus Majarra and Absolute Dance.

Laser Cannon is THE strongest weapon against 6 individual targets. It's quite possible for a Gunmaster to kill six enemies in less than six or seven seconds. Hitting for 1500+ each second or so on each one... that's just crazy damage.

[Hrith]

Laser Cannon is the most powerful weapon in the game with only 5 targets, don't need 6.

I deal 1850+ damage with my own Megistaride against Lv150+ monsters. I easily break 2000 damage under an AT's buffs.

Choutou Kantsu-jin on an Acrofighter is not even half as powerful as lasers on a Gunmaster, get your facts straight.

[biggabertha]

X.x; 1850+...?!

I only do 1500+... Wow, does being a Caseal and an LKK really help out that much..? (250% attack modifier IS big though...)

And I didn't realise it only took five targets, heh - no wonder I slaughter that Polty room so much..

[Ruru]

hah whatever lasers suck. outdamaging my barta/zonde/megid/chikki/choutou go to hell lasers!


:p

[Hrith]

And I didn't realise it only took five targets, heh - no wonder I slaughter that Polty room so much..Actually, Gunmaster only needs four targets to outdamage Anga Jabroga Lv50 with a 50% Ank Zagza, but you need five to outdamage a Fortegunner using Boma Duranga ;s

[Neith]

Actually, Gunmaster only needs four targets to outdamage Anga Jabroga Lv50 with a 50% Ank Zagza, but you need five to outdamage a Fortegunner using Boma Duranga ;s

Might be a dumb question, but how do you figure all this out? If someone asked me what would outdamage something else, I wouldn't have a clue :wacko:

[Hrith]

((Damage x number of targets x number of hits) / execution time).

So if a Fortefighter with a 50% Ank Zagza deals 6700 damage on a Lv150 target, the damage per second in that situation is ((6,700 x 5 x 2) / 7.5) = 8,933.

DPS is the base figure for comparing two different attacks.
For skills with several parts, each part must be done separately, of course.

For bullets, you usually get the number of bullets fired per minute and divide the result by 60, it's easier to calculate that way.


That just gives you figures, though. There are many other aspects which make an attack better. Dus Majarra is only the 11th or 12th most powerful melee attack, but its incredible range and radius makes it better than several of those more powerful skills, on the whole.

[-Morgan-]

guess some one thinks 1800 dmg is more than 4.4k and 2 shots of 1.6k before it. your nowere near as damaging or as fast i use laser cannons on my cast gm but its just not as good

[biggabertha]

guess some one thinks 1800 dmg is more than 4.4k and 2 shots of 1.6k before it. your nowere near as damaging or as fast i use laser cannons on my cast gm but its just not as good

I'd be flamebaiting if I respond to this the wrong way...

How long does it take to do full JA combos of Choutout Kantsu-jin to clear out a group of enemies lined up well/correctly for it to work?

In the same situation, if you use a Laser Cannon on them, it'd kill them faster.

Sure, okay - you do two 1600 hits first then a hit for 4400 or more, let's round it up to 4500 to make maths easier. Let's also assume Choutou Kantsu-jin takes errr.... three seconds..? Is that generous enough? But then you have to calculate how much time you get to move again and then there's also the first attack that you have to do in order to JA into the first part of the PA so four seconds overall..? Seems quite generous.

Four seconds to perform in order to deal 1600 + 1600 + 4500 = 7700 damage to one target or about 1925 damage a second.


I have absolutely no idea what the exact firing speeds Laser Cannon has but I know for a Fortegunner/Protranser, it was something like 60 times a minute. Gunmaster fires FASTER than either of them and going with Hrith's figures of dealing 1850s a hit...

Even rounding up the Laser Cannon to a shot per second makes Lasers pretty close to the generous calculations I've given for Choutou Kantsu-jin.


This kind of stuff is also the same reason why Anga Redda isn't as good as say, Dus Daggas. Just because it deals a big number at the end, doesn't mean that it deals more damage overall.


Come to think of it, I think a Shotgun deals more damage than Choutou Kantsu-jin in the same amount of time against two targets...

[Ruru]

a fully JA'd choutou takes close to 4.5-5 full seconds not to mention the half-second cool down between choutou's so you're looking at about 5.5-6 seconds per full JA'd choutou.
lasers have no subsequent cool down and fire at almost a half second making lasers (over time) much more powerfull.

i can assure you if you had unlimited PP in a laser and a slicer on the polty room in mission carnival, the laser would clear it faster.

[kejen]

It's like arguing with an ape. He isn't capable of understanding something so complicated (even though it isn't). He sees 4200 vs 1800 and thinks 4200 is better.

Another thing is gunmaster laser fire so fast it stalls enemy movement like no other.

Morgan, just make a video of you taking out a pack of kakwane with choutou, then I or someone will make one of a gunmaster and you will so there is no comparison at all.

4.4+1.6+1.6 = 7600 damage. A gunmaster can fire that damage in 4 lasers. A gunmaster can probably fire 6 - 8 lasers in teh time it takes to do a full choutou combo. 10,800 to 14400. Gunmaster has higher acc meaning they will hit more, and a few of those will probably be critical hits so easily over 15000 damage. And one last very important thing, lasers are much wider. Choutou is very skinny.

Choutou isnt even half as strong as gunmaster laser, as said earlier.

[Genoa]

Almost any race-to-type combination works in PSU.
The only real challenging combinations would probably be Beast and/or Cast MF.

ATA in this game means... VERY little. In fact, the only race-type combination that has ATA low enough to be noticeably low is Beast Fortetecher >__> (or Beast MF is you nanoblast...)
And if you are really concerned about the ATA, stop comparing among other races and think about yours for a second.
Out of ALL the jobs that involve melee at a high priority, Acrofighter gives the MOST. So a Beast gets the MOST ATA (not including Gunner jobs) for being an Acrofighter.

Don't just rely on single-handed weapons just because they're you're only S-ranks.
The increased attack speed with the ability to use the two-hand weapons of Acrofighter are wonderful. Besides, you can usually find high element %'s on A-ranks which are better than many S-ranks available for 1/4 of the price.

It's kind of sickening how elitist many players are in PSU.
There really isn't a point in making such a "perfect" race-type combo and "perfect" palette and PA combinations.
There's nothing wrong with making suggestions to help you perform better, but don't fall for this whole "THIS IS HOW THIS RACE AND TYPE SHOULD BE!!!"
Play for fun, because PSU is easy and highly versatile.

[-Morgan-]

ok i settleed it i raced a gm laser cannon user even tho all he had was a 2/10 inferno he still did about 1700 but he still lost to my coutou by a long shot and how can u say a 2 second combo takes 4 seconds and even the baby 700-800 dmg my range mag does rlly dosent matter its at least a lil bit but yea laser cannons r just hugged on cuz ppl wasted $ on em i like them but their not as fast in killing by any means and the guy i raced is a cast gm named julian im not even gonna look at this thread anymmore cuz apparently i cant argue to the unwise who make up numbers that are completely wrong about pas n how long they take to use

[Hrith]

Usual complete bullshitIt amazes me how some people simply refuse to learn, even after being around for so long.

If you're not going to be helpful, then at least be quiet.

[Genoa]

usual reply that follows mine.

Yeah, I'll probably never learn :confused:

[Ruru]

ok i settleed it i raced a gm laser cannon user even tho all he had was a 2/10 inferno he still did about 1700 but he still lost to my coutou by a long shot and how can u say a 2 second combo takes 4 seconds and even the baby 700-800 dmg my range mag does rlly dosent matter its at least a lil bit but yea laser cannons r just hugged on cuz ppl wasted $ on em i like them but their not as fast in killing by any means and the guy i raced is a cast gm named julian im not even gonna look at this thread anymmore cuz apparently i cant argue to the unwise who make up numbers that are completely wrong about pas n how long they take to use


wow way to fail. obviously no point arguing with you since you're just going to make crap up and have nothing to back it. no stats to compare, no pa levels, you dont even know how fast choutou is to do a full JA'd combo, and why did you even mention range mags? they werent even brought up in the discussion of choutou vs lasers. not to mention you just gave up any right to further prove your point by saying
im not even gonna look at this thread anymmore cuz apparently i cant argue to the unwise who make up numbers that are completely wrong about pas n how long they take to use

if you have no evidence or proof to argue then dont even start. and this isnt a laser biased opinion. i'm a cast AF and newman MF, not even a gunner and i personally dont like lasers, but that doesnt mean my choutou will outdamage any lvl 50 laser of the correct element on the same group of enemies.

[kejen]

Morgan, make a video. Not hard man. Take your camcorder, stick it in front of the tv and load white beasts s2. The map that 6 kakwanes load up. Kill them with choutou, then post the link. I will do the same with my gunmaster.

You won't do that, because you will embarrassed on how superior lasers are. But go for it..

[Hrith]

Laser fires 83 bullets per minute on Gunmaster.

I do 1850 damage per bullet, solo.

(83 x 1850) / 60 = 2,559 DPS per target.

Show me any calculation which beats that, lol.


Choutou Kantsu-jin sucks for more than one reason, it's very akward to use, too. Chikki Kyoren-jin still owns it. There's no use doing a bit more damage if you're going to miss your target altogether, or hit less targets.

[Genoa]

One slight turn of the camera while doing Choutou and you're completely screwed, usually hitting nothing (despite the fact you're practically facing the enemy).
It's not a very effective PA as far as accuracy.
And I don't mean STATISTICALLY accurate, I mean it's very difficult to manual tackle how to use it, mostly because it's always smart to move your camera around while fighting, yet this PA absolutely despises camera movement.

A lot of people automatically assume Choutou is better than Chikki simply because Chikki was nerfed, yet Chikki is still an amazing PA.

Laser Cannons are extremely powerful for DPS.
Plus you don't have to set up a JA, just mash with an occasional strafe to reposition.
Your distance is also much more effective and at least you KNOW where you're going to hit when you execute the attack.

[that cast named kai]

i guess i am going to get back to the subject of the OP

i have been playing AF for sometime (cast mainly)

but i suppose the real issue of the choices for your pallet are based more along the lines of how you want to play as an AF, which i suppose will fall into several choices focus on power, speed, or using SE to your advantage

any who...

i guess i can give example of my most common pallet choices for AF

claw (zanshu (inf. lvl 2), dagia (freeze lvl ?), or falclaw (stun lvl ?)) / ebrozike or frauduke ( ground, ice, light, dark) - PA: buku - 'trap' set up used mainly for dealing with large mobs to maximize the use of stalling SE, mainly for solo play or to aid a gunner or techer who is mobbed

dagger (deva (silence lvl ?)) / ebrozike or frauduke ( fire, lighting, or dark) - PA: shunbu or buten - 'mage killer' used to neutralize most enemies that rely on techs to attack

saber (tiga ragan ('crea' effect)) / hand gun or S rank R-mag -PA: rising- 'generalist' a good combo that works for most scenarios as well as being useful against 'melee friendly enemies' (bullet-resistant with multi targets)

twin saber ( t. durendal repecs or t. db's swords) -PA: assault or cross hurricane- 'sword dancer' a good twin saber combo that takes advantage of the AF speed rather well, best A ranks you can find for the most part, (can compete in ATP, ATA, PP with most S-ranks, only draw back is low %)

twin dagger (either 9* sets from yohmei or grm) -PA: hisho- 'juggler' use many to occupy vaha/vanda type enemies

twin claws ( twin neiclaws) -PA: any of them really i guess- 'lazy man's/soloist's giresta' sorta self explanatory if you know the SE of the weapon

slicer ( 9*+) / hand gun -PA: chikki- 'long shot' used to keep distance as well as for 'trap shooting' in my mind chikki is a little better than choutou since the damage is more constant and it is easier to 'aim'

don't mess with knuckles or card all that much as an AF or in general so i am not sure what to give in terms of advice for them.

any way like all 'classes' in this game it takes time to learn the 'flow' of how they fight

if you need any help drop me a message on my BB in my room my character name is Kai, i am a m cast fightgunner

[Koiwai_Keiji]

i guess i am going to get back to the subject of the OP

i have been playing AF for sometime (cast mainly)

but i suppose the real issue of the choices for your pallet are based more along the lines of how you want to play as an AF, which i suppose will fall into several choices focus on power, speed, or using SE to your advantage

any who...

i guess i can give example of my most common pallet choices for AF

claw (zanshu (inf. lvl 2), dagia (freeze lvl ?), or falclaw (stun lvl ?)) / ebrozike or frauduke ( ground, ice, light, dark) - PA: buku - 'trap' set up used mainly for dealing with large mobs to maximize the use of stalling SE, mainly for solo play or to aid a gunner or techer who is mobbed

dagger (deva (silence lvl ?)) / ebrozike or frauduke ( fire, lighting, or dark) - PA: shunbu or buten - 'mage killer' used to neutralize most enemies that rely on techs to attack

saber (tiga ragan ('crea' effect)) / hand gun or S rank R-mag -PA: rising- 'generalist' a good combo that works for most scenarios as well as being useful against 'melee friendly enemies' (bullet-resistant with multi targets)

twin saber ( t. durendal repecs or t. db's swords) -PA: assault or cross hurricane- 'sword dancer' a good twin saber combo that takes advantage of the AF speed rather well, best A ranks you can find for the most part, (can compete in ATP, ATA, PP with most S-ranks, only draw back is low %)

twin dagger (either 9* sets from yohmei or grm) -PA: hisho- 'juggler' use many to occupy vaha/vanda type enemies

twin claws ( twin neiclaws) -PA: any of them really i guess- 'lazy man's/soloist's giresta' sorta self explanatory if you know the SE of the weapon

slicer ( 9*+) / hand gun -PA: chikki- 'long shot' used to keep distance as well as for 'trap shooting' in my mind chikki is a little better than choutou since the damage is more constant and it is easier to 'aim'

don't mess with knuckles or card all that much as an AF or in general so i am not sure what to give in terms of advice for them.

any way like all 'classes' in this game it takes time to learn the 'flow' of how they fight

if you need any help drop me a message on my BB in my room my character name is Kai, i am a m cast fightgunner

This is very close to how I play AF as well, though I like to use a fully grinded neiclaw for the hp drain on small enemies. I haven't been impressed with twin claw pas damage wise, despite how they look great. The benefit of single claw for the hpdrain is that its pa is an AoE style one, so you get much more hp from all the small creatures who have less defense than medium to large enemies.

With drill knuckles out, I've started using this weapon for Boga Robado, its 1st combo does a 6-hit non-launching strike very fast, while the 2nd combo attacks 2 targets twice with knockdown (slower, but with AF speed its ok). You can use the first combo on a vear and not have to worry about making it 'spin' and it means the fish mages don't teleport.

I seldom use cards as an AF, although its 3 bullet homing handgun range with speed increase is tempting, its still only hitting one target, making it a bad choice in most regular party missions...unless its survival, like in carnival. This was a great back up weapon, when most of your party is dead, just fire it, and run if necessary, the homing and SE take care of the rest. Used also for adhanna deghanna, when running was also important (evil missile >.<).

This class is great, using just counter effectively is quite rewarding, something that AF can do much more consistently than other classes with its high evade. The evade also is such a...2nd chance, its amazing when it activates against things that would instantly kill you (evil buffed adhanna missile >.<) or enough hits to kill you (I evaded nearly most of the hits of a spinning vear once xD). Evade can be fickle though...other times it just doesn't like you.