Lasers/Twin Handguns...help!

[Swisha387]

I've been playing off and on since it began on the 360 servers. When lasers first came out, they were pretty weak and twin handguns were pretty powerfull. Then I believe twin handguns got a nerf somewhere along the way... Right now my FG/MG I am using Fire Rifle Bullets at 40+ and I have all my shotgun bullets at 21+.

What I'm wondering is I keep hearing laser cannons getting mentioned again and again for damage... Did they become that much more powerful since AOI? Should I tx them like a shotgun and get them all up in level for damage? What about twin hand guns as well?

[Rexob]

I don't know how they were before, but Lasers at 41+ do a lot of dmg; 150 & GM20 do 1900-2000+ depending on gear (LKK). Twins are nice for the mobility, but as a GM not heavily used typically.

[Magician]

Before the AOI expansion the laser's SE would only affect the first target in the line, now the laser's SE is applied to every target the laser hits. Sometime ago the laser's element percentage also got a boost, making the laser one of the two ranged weapons with a 50% element if you have the bullet at level fourty-one or higher (the other being bow after jp's spring update).

[Tetsaru]

Lasers are definitely worth using against large groups of enemies... IF you level them up, which still takes FOREVER, lol. But yeah, a Gunmaster wielding a good laser cannon, along with good gear and high levels, can easily deal around 2,000 damage per enemy of the opposite element, and can also inflict status effects quickly.

I don't use twin handguns very much, but I'm starting to use them a little bit more than I used to. Compared to rifles, they CAN do more damage DPS-wise, but I still like rifles better because they have more practical applications: sniping, knockdown, and stronger status effects, mainly.

[biggabertha]

Back in the day, when bullets didn't do squat against enemies in terms of moving them, flinching them/stunning them, Twin Handguns were apparently handy for pulling one or two enemies away from a group. Lasers could do the same as well to be honest but needed some good positioning but they were weak then.

Now though, bullets (and pretty much everything...) stuns/flinches enemies when they come into contact with an enemy. That made Lasers pretty useful.

Then Lasers got an elemental boost - that was pretty good too.
Lasers also got a pretty powerful attack boost - I think it jumped from something like 130% to like 220% at Lv. 40 but I don't know what it was before for sure. It wasn't that astonishingly powerful as it is now though.

Lasers got an SE boost as well - going from Lv. 1 all the way to Lv. 3.

The end result on a Fortegunner is a really powerful way to clear four or more enemies that are lined up.

Gunmaster slaughters things with 250% attack, 50% element and a faster firing rate than a Fortegunner. Even though Gumaster has less ATP than a Fortegunner, Gunmaster comes out on top.


Twin Handguns just got progressively worse - flinching enemies kinda sucks with that kind of firing rate on just one enemy because you can just use a Rifle instead. That does the same job to just one enemy.

It's not as powerful as a Shotgun or a Rifle but it is mobile. Maybe that's what some like it for or for the looks - strange though, that those same people say that Handgun is utter garbage but Twin Handguns is the best thing in the world for looks, damage and use.

MMMmmhmmm....

Twin Handguns are strong, no doubt but unless you're a Fighgunner, an Acrofighter or an Acrotecher, you have better, more powerful options for close range mobile weapons.



they CAN do more damage DPS-wise

Hmm... I don't think they can, Gunmaster, Guntecher and Fortegunner all probably do more damage with Rifles than with Twin Handguns. I remember seeing some of Hrith's figures with an 8/10 Rattlesnake and a 10/10 Battlestopper with lv. 50 bullets and a Lumirus Kaos Knight unit. The Rifle came out with 300 more DPS than the Twin Handguns.

The only thing I see in Twin Handguns is looks (like Twin Tornado, GULD MILLA etc.) and mobility but... I can't argue how convenient they are to tag with Twin Penetration - Phantasm Prism and Frozen prism do a better job though.

[Swisha387]

So what is more effective in terms of DPS right now, shotgun or laser? I'm sure it is somewhat situational but overall.

[Dark Emerald EXE]

Laser are great!!!
On my level 150 Female Gunmaster (20)
I currently use a Love Inferno 5/10
my rising prism is 33 and against dark creatrues (depending on there level) I hit normally around 1200-1250 which is great if it a spawn of monsters(like badiras)

Yea for gunmaster twins are mainly for mobility. I used to have 2 of them but i didnt see the point since 1. i only used the 9/9 and 2. there wasnt many situation where needing them is best.

So i sold my 8/8 battle stoppers but kept the 9/9

eventually i'll have my palatte like this
Rifle
Rifle
Shotgun
Shotgun
Laser
Twins

Maybe onf ot the shotguns replaced with another laser depending on if the mission has mutliple element spawns compared to just one (like white beast,true darkness,seed express,etc)

[darkante]

Lasers and Rifle are a big pain to level up to a very effective level.
Gunner is one class you need to be patient with...
But the rewards for your hard work is way worth it!

[biggabertha]

Shotguns are great against one or two targets close together for that "double shot" splash damage their bullets have.

Three or more targets, the Laser Cannon beats the Shotgun - and practically any other weapon.

Laser Cannon beats every other weapon with five targets in terms of DPS. Apparently, the only one that comes close is Boma Duranga on four targets but you can die from that one pretty easily - but so do your targets so it balances out.


Once you learn to run around with the Laser Cannon in your hands, wait for the spawn of enemies to show up, then back up a bit so they line up FOR you, then you will realise how amazing the Laser Cannon is.

On a PC with Frame Skip 0 running smoothly, Laser Cannon really shines. PS2 I can vouch for, is rather slow to fire/load when there are four or more targets due to slowdown.

[Tetsaru]

So what is more effective in terms of DPS right now, shotgun or laser? I'm sure it is somewhat situational but overall.

My general rule of thumb for gun weapon usage:

If your enemies are in a tight group, and there's a bunch of them, and they're slow, use a laser to take them all out at once. Adjust your aim accordingly between shots in third-person view to make sure the beam hits the most amount of enemies possible.

If your enemies are scattered around randomly, and they can move fast, or if there's only one or two to deal with, use a shotgun and take them out one at a time. Shotguns can also be used when your enemies are in a wide formation compared to you; setting a proper distance between you and the enemies and then firing, thus having one bullet hit each enemy (up to 5), can suppress the entire group momentarily. Finally, shotguns are the best gun choice when enemies are right in front of you, as you can hit them point blank for a lot of damage and usually kill them off quickly.

Use rifles from afar in first-person view to provide cover fire for your allies while they're on the front lines. The knockdown and status effects rifles provide can really help your teammates. A skilled gunner with a high-level Frozen Shot, for example, can easily immobilize an entire group of enemies, or stun-lock one large enemy. Rifles are also ideal against flying enemies or bosses.

Twin Handguns... I mainly use these for their mobility. They're good for chasing down enemies, or staying on your feet when enemies are using projectile moves or are unsafe to approach point-blank. I just wish you could rotate while strafing with them... it'd make them a lot easier to aim with... >_<

Also, keep in mind that most gunner classes have access to a lot of traps! Burn, Virus, and Poison G traps are especially helpful against enemies with a lot of HP, or those that are resistant to bullet attacks.

[stukasa]

So what is more effective in terms of DPS right now, shotgun or laser? I'm sure it is somewhat situational but overall.
Both are good but I think shotguns are more useful, especially in a party. Since enemies are usually getting knocked around and killed pretty quickly, lasers won't be as effective.


On a PC with Frame Skip 0 running smoothly, Laser Cannon really shines. PS2 I can vouch for, is rather slow to fire/load when there are four or more targets due to slowdown.
Why does frame skip 0 make lasers better? (just wondering!)

[biggabertha]

Because if a computer can handle frame skip 0 without slowing down, you already have one up on a PS2.

PS2 slows down when you shoot a laser into four or more enemies repeatedly. While quite miniscule in the grand scheme of things, when you try to Time Attack on a PS2, it's practically impossible - especially when places take a LOT longer to load when compared to a high end PC on Frame Skip 0.

Frame Skip 0 affects so much in PSU.

[stukasa]

Because if a computer can handle frame skip 0 without slowing down, you already have one up on a PS2.

PS2 slows down when you shoot a laser into four or more enemies repeatedly. While quite miniscule in the grand scheme of things, when you try to Time Attack on a PS2, it's practically impossible - especially when places take a LOT longer to load when compared to a high end PC on Frame Skip 0.

Frame Skip 0 affects so much in PSU.
I play on PC so I didn't know that. (But I still can't play on Frame Skip 0 without getting a little slowdown.. ^^; )

[Hrith]

So what is more effective in terms of DPS right now, shotgun or laser? I'm sure it is somewhat situational but overall.Laser has better DPS than shotgun after three monsters.

So if there is one monster or two monsters, use shotgun. If there are three or more monsters, use laser.

Of course, that is only DPS, you actually have to 'align' the monsters for that to be true.
But what you must do is make it happen. When you know a map very well, you'll know where to position yourself to tackle a spawn the most effectively and maximise laser damage.

I deal 1,070 damage (Lv150+ monsters, average figure) with shotguns, 1,880 damage (same) with lasers. Those two weapon types have a similar firing rate (lasers are a bit faster, but w/e).
Each shotgun attack is 1,070 x 5 = 5,350
Each laser attack is 1,880 x [targets]
If there are two: 1,880 x 2 = 3,760
Three: 1,880 x 3 = 5,640
Four: 1,880 x 4 = 7,520
Five: 1,880 x 5 = 9,400
etc. (although getting more than five is very rare).

9400 damage every 0.7 second, lol...

[pikachief]

Lasers are definitely worth using against large groups of enemies... IF you level them up, which still takes FOREVER, lol. But yeah, a Gunmaster wielding a good laser cannon, along with good gear and high levels, can easily deal around 2,000 damage per enemy of the opposite element, and can also inflict status effects quickly.

I don't use twin handguns very much, but I'm starting to use them a little bit more than I used to. Compared to rifles, they CAN do more damage DPS-wise, but I still like rifles better because they have more practical applications: sniping, knockdown, and stronger status effects, mainly.

wow now, 2,000 is not easy with a laser XD i have a lvl 43 light laser with a 8/8 love inferno and im still not hitting 2,000's XD

with AT buffs I am, so mmmaaaayyybe if it was lvl 50 laser i'd hit close to 2,000, but right now im hitting them for 1,750's but with a lvl 3 SE. if i can hit at least 3 targets per shot, its automatically the highest hitting thing I can possibly use :P

[Talise]

For the GUNMASTER, twin handguns are pretty much garbage. Twin handguns could be on par with rifles back when rifles DIDN'T have knockdown/damage boost. The mobility is pretty pointless when you have a knockdown effect on every shot on a rifle. Now twin handguns are completing with laser cannons, and laser cannons win. Even on a single target, laser will do more damage than twins. Anytime you're hitting more than 1 target, you can throw twins out of the equation. Lasers also have a stun effect, and with your firing speed, enemies getting out of stunlock is generaly not a problem. If you only have 1 target, shotguns and rifles win. Bottom line: no use for twins in the Gunmaster Arsenal.

[Genoa]

Not sure if it's just me, but I can't even really tell the difference in Twin Handgun speed from GM compared to any other Twin Handgun using class.
The Rifle, Shotgun, and Laser Cannon speed increases are significantly noticeable however.
This whole DPS situation, Hrith pretty much nailed it.
You can't compare weapon type's DPS unless you're speaking about various situations, because a L.Cannon, Rifle, and Shotgun all have their place. Despite GM really only have 3 key weapons, it's all you need for almost ANY situation.

[unicorn]

I personally wouldn't use Twin Handguns on GM only because you have better weapons that practically do the same thing.

Actually, I wouldn't use them on GT or FG either. GT has Xbows, Cards, and MachineGuns for Single Targets and are all mobile. FG still has Xbows and MachineGuns.

The only types I can see making the most use out of them are FI, AT and AF.