Acrotecher Versus Masterforce

[pinkace]

I just wanna make sure I got this right:

MF can get attack techs to a higher level than AT, while AT can get Support techs higher.

MF's tech are cast faster and do more damage than AT.

AT uses less PP per technique used than MF


That is all I know. Am I missing anything? are these correct?

[Anduril]

I think that the actual casting animation for MF and AT are the same speed, but MFs outdamage ATs because they can use rods and can have attack techs over 31.

[kejen]

Yeah, master and acro are the same speed.

[Genoa]

I just wanna make sure I got this right:

MF can get attack techs to a higher level than AT, while AT can get Support techs higher.

MF's tech are cast faster and do more damage than AT.

AT uses less PP per technique used than MF


That is all I know. Am I missing anything? are these correct?

Acrotechers are much MUCH more sturdier and do quite well with weapons too. They have increased Melee-weapon speed too.
Humans receive +5% to all stats when playing Acrotecher
(Master classes don't have any race-to-class bonus)

MF's attack fast with techs as well, yes the damage is considerably more (seeing Lv.41-50 has almost twice the Tech damage growth than usual for most techs).
MF is the only tech class that can use Rods AND a tech-speed increase bonus given by class, which can also be stacked by Quick/Smart unit(s).

MF is very vulnerable however. The HP and EVP is horrible.

But comparing classes against each other does no justice since these two are extremely different altogether.

This might help a bit for statistical purposes:
http://www.pso-world.com/forums/showthread.php?t=150891

[CJ Johnny]

Very simple. Is it really that diffcult to understand....

MF MasterForce 100% Attack.
Attack 50, 10 Support.
Support which has Level 1 effect. By takeing any pills will have Level 2 effect.
If you are wondering about GiResta. Equivalent to Me/HP Restore

AT Arcotecher 100% Support.
Attack 30, 50 Support.
Support which has Level 5 effect.

FT Fortetecher Attack and Support. 40/40
However! It will be in the middle, or average.
Something like your left hand is on an block of ice. Your right hand is in the fireplace.
And you are in the middle. You know the fells.

http://www.pso-world.com/forums/showthread.php?t=161059
http://www.pso-world.com/forums/showthread.php?t=161337

[Genoa]

I would definitely have to disagree with Acrotecher being 100% support.
An AT that does nothing but support fails because it doesn't contribute any form of damage against enemies and most likely hides behind allies to continue to heal.
Even debuffs are a waste of PP and time in most situations (debuffs are very very situational and only really ideal when strong enemies are buffed).
AT can output a lot of damage with techs, melee, and ranged weapons.
Some don't KNOW how to support, others don't do anything BUT support.
You have to be able to attack and watch your party very carefully.

[Anduril]

That's why it is very hard to find a good AT most of the time. I have met ATs who don't have a single support spell, and spend most of their time just using Twin handguns or whips, and I have also seen ones who just sit there while we try to take down a large enemy and just cast Giresta, which is counter productive seeing as the HP regen doesn't get a chance to stack, and then using a dagger while having a TECH-Mag with Resta and Reverser would be a far better use of their time. Very rarely do I see those who Buff, Giresta, then attack with decentattack techs and melee while having Resta/Reverser on a TECH-Mag to keep the party alive, but I have seen them and I try to be one of them when I play AT.

[CJ Johnny]

Did we miss out at the topic?

"Acrotecher Versus Masterforce"

Not How to play as a 'AT or MF'.

If this is about "How to play"
I won't even go there.

You paid for your game. I can't comment on that.

[Genoa]

Class vs Class topics are bullshit anyways, and to prove it's bullshit, people post how each class is different by their given abilities, roles, statistics, and a little instruction as to how to be effective as the class.
So yes, I would say it's a little more "How to play".
Because most people who make these types of threads couldn't give a shit about their own preference, but rather to be a good player in the eyes of others (which is sad)
However, from the actual post the OP makes, the title appears very misleading. It's more like he's comparing their attributes rather than saying "who's better? lets make it MF vs AT".

[hunterseifer]

As it stands to me, AT is the better class, in terms of stats, wep choice and buffs and attack techs are nice. But here's the main problem, MF is horrible imo as it stands now, AT can pretty fight anything like a mini boss for example thats resistant to techs so they can change equips to do full dmg, MF cant. MF is worth lvling for a later on reason though, I'm talkiing about the supplemental update that pretty much makes them a techer tank, big stat boost, and having a limit break exclusive to them for techs to hit multiple hit boxes, techs like diga hit three though(which is awesome). Then I say I'd rather be a MF, but for now lvl it if you have nothing else to do.

[hunterseifer]

Class vs Class topics are bullshit anyways, and to prove it's bullshit, people post how each class is different by their given abilities, roles, statistics, and a little instruction as to how to be effective as the class.
So yes, I would say it's a little more "How to play".
Because most people who make these types of threads couldn't give a shit about their own preference, but rather to be a good player in the eyes of others (which is sad)
However, from the actual post the OP makes, the title appears very misleading. It's more like he's comparing their attributes rather than saying "who's better? lets make it MF vs AT".

I was kinda confused myself, so idk if I actually helped >.>;

[thunder-ray]

Class vs Class topics are bullshit anyways, and to prove it's bullshit, people post how each class is different by their given abilities, roles, statistics, and a little instruction as to how to be effective as the class.
So yes, I would say it's a little more "How to play".
Because most people who make these types of threads couldn't give a shit about their own preference, but rather to be a good player in the eyes of others (which is sad)
However, from the actual post the OP makes, the title appears very misleading. It's more like he's comparing their attributes rather than saying "who's better? lets make it MF vs AT".You pretty much told the truth on that one XD.

[pinkace]

OK you guys need to read before you type responses :p

I did not ask for your opinion on which class is better. I did not start a class versus class topic. I asked for confirmation on facts that I have gleaned and read from PSUpedia.


Humans receive +5% to all stats when playing Acrotecher


are you 1 billion percent sure of this? there is no mention of that on PSUPedia, and they have a class bonus page....

[Gibdozer]

That's why it is very hard to find a good AT most of the time. I have met ATs who don't have a single support spell, and spend most of their time just using Twin handguns or whips, and I have also seen ones who just sit there while we try to take down a large enemy and just cast Giresta, which is counter productive seeing as the HP regen doesn't get a chance to stack, and then using a dagger while having a TECH-Mag with Resta and Reverser would be a far better use of their time. Very rarely do I see those who Buff, Giresta, then attack with decentattack techs and melee while having Resta/Reverser on a TECH-Mag to keep the party alive, but I have seen them and I try to be one of them when I play AT.

I couldn't disagree more, It's not the Acrotechers job to keep the party alive. I play some Acrotecher, and while I do have leveled buffs I don't even use Giresta. I do have stars and sols on my palette and will heal people in need (especially those who go beast), but I'm not about to waste a tech mag slot that can be used for offensive casting!

How can you knock Acrotechers using whips and twins, these are two of their best options. Whips are fantastic (can any other class even use an Srank whip?) and the trademark of a good Acrotecher. Also you advise a tech-mag with a dagger, the dagger is the only weapon on my palette linked to a handgun, right where it belongs.

[lantis-zagato]

to me it just sounded like Pinkace was just trying to understand the differences between the classes and was not asking which was "better" or how to play them.

[Magus_84]

are you 1 billion percent sure of this? there is no mention of that on PSUPedia, and they have a
class bonus page....

I don't recall PSUpedia saying anywhere that AT is "100% support". And posting that is what caused people to respond the way they did. You may have thought you were stating "fact", but it's an opinion that some people disagree with. Hence the arguing.

But yes, humans do get a 5% bonus to stats as AT or AF. It's pretty significant. Human male AT has more ATP than Cast female AT, for instance.

http://psupedia.info/Types

Scroll down to the very bottom and look at the chart.

Or you could check Amesani DB's type modifiers page and look at the "race bonuses" part at the bottom.

http://www.amesani.org/psu/db/character/jobmods.php?job=11

[DreXxiN]

I couldn't disagree more, It's not the Acrotechers job to keep the party alive. I play some Acrotecher, and while I do have leveled buffs I don't even use Giresta. I do have stars and sols on my palette and will heal people in need (especially those who go beast), but I'm not about to waste a tech mag slot that can be used for offensive casting!

How can you knock Acrotechers using whips and twins, these are two of their best options. Whips are fantastic (can any other class even use an Srank whip?) and the trademark of a good Acrotecher. Also you advise a tech-mag with a dagger, the dagger is the only weapon on my palette linked to a handgun, right where it belongs.

What's your name in-game so I can remember to never party with you? I facepalmed to just about every sentence. (If you are newman, try Gi spells as an alternative to S rank whip, btw.)


Yes, we know classes can do more than what they seem to be DESIGNED for...but if your going DPS..some...wait..just about every class can do that job better than you.

AT without giresta at the very least = trash.

[pinkace]

Thank you Magus, I did not scroll down far enough. However this I don't understand:


I don't recall PSUpedia saying anywhere that AT is "100% support".

Me neither.


And posting that is what caused people to respond the way they did. You may have thought you were stating "fact", but it's an opinion that some people disagree with. Hence the arguing.

But I didn't post that. I just read thru everyone's post and no one else did either, except for CJ but he is, well, special. :(

What are you smoking, and can I have some? ;) :p


However, from the actual post the OP makes, the title appears very misleading. It's more like he's comparing their attributes rather than saying "who's better? lets make it MF vs AT".

It's only the title, only 3 words into the whole post. If someone had replied "Masterforce FTW" would you agree that this person is a moron?

[Genoa]

It's only the title, only 3 words into the whole post. If someone had replied "Masterforce FTW" would you agree that this person is a moron?

Me? I was referring to anyone else who saw the title. I actually read your post <__<.
But this isn't AT vs. MF.
Technically, from your original post, this is something along the lines of "Confirming MF and AT differences".

[pinkace]

Agreed. I thought you were misled (I didn't based on your first post, just the second)

My problem is my female cast fortegunner maxed out, and I don't want a gunmaster. At he same time, I already have a masterforce at level 1 (female newman) but I'd switch her back to wartecher IF changing my female cast to acrotecher would be a good idea.

So it's one or the other, I cant have 3 techers >_<

[TecherRamen]

Agreed. I thought you were misled (I didn't based on your first post, just the second)

My problem is my female cast fortegunner maxed out, and I don't want a gunmaster. At he same time, I already have a masterforce at level 1 (female newman) but I'd switch her back to wartecher IF changing my female cast to acrotecher would be a good idea.

So it's one or the other, I cant have 3 techers >_<

I know some cast AT's. Infact the "Best Techers" on the PC/PS2 servers Run with CAST ATs sometimes (Ive seen it first hand). And they are solid part members when they do. Melee + lvl 50 buffs.

So its not unheard of and as long as youre not spamming raspells when you do it. Its not a bad Idea to turn your femmebot into an AT

[Magus_84]

But I didn't post that. I just read thru everyone's post and no one else did either, except for CJ but he is, well, special. :(

What are you smoking, and can I have some? ;) :p



I got your post mixed up with CJ's. My mistake. x_x

And I'm smoking nothing. I am on some pretty hefty painkillers, though. Yay surgery recovery. And no, I won't share. >_>

[pinkace]

I got your post mixed up with CJ's. My mistake. x_x

And I'm smoking nothing. I am on some pretty hefty painkillers, though. Yay surgery recovery. And no, I won't share. >_>


aww... :(

I wish I was in surgery recovery... :p


But seriously, no, feel better man.

[Magus_84]

aww... :(

I wish I was in surgery recovery... :p


But seriously, no, feel better man.

Nothing too major. Knee surgery. I got the stitches out today. I just kinda...overdid it yesterday, so had to take one of my painkillers.

Thank you though.

[Hiero_Glyph]

AT without giresta at the very least = trash.

Hehe, you just called Hrith (Kef) trash. Can't say that I disagree with your statement though.

[that cast named kai]

My problem is my female cast fortegunner maxed out, and I don't want a gunmaster. At he same time, I already have a masterforce at level 1 (female newman) but I'd switch her back to wartecher IF changing my female cast to acrotecher would be a good idea.

So it's one or the other, I cant have 3 techers >_<

can't say anything about MF (never used them, never liked them ^^; , never been much of a offensive techer)

female cast AT would work (used with success in the past, although i like newman AT better for some reason) , but i suppose there is always GT (don't necessarily have to be striving to be a GM to enjoy the class, i am not :p ) , you keep most of your PA's as well as dabbling in 'light teching' and can go from there, sorta win/win depending on how you used fortegunner

but this is just me, it all depends on your play style really, i guess that is what i all comes down to, what work best for you

[pinkace]

I am hating Guntecher. At level 5 now.

I am gonna miss rifles though...

[that cast named kai]

I am hating Guntecher. At level 5 now.

I am gonna miss rifles though...

^^;

i suppose it really depends on you preference in weapons, although i guess i do like to use "small arms" as well as longbow so it worked for me rather well, (just wish strike PA's capped at 20 instead of 10, oh well)

i suppose rifles will still work out rather well depending on the level of your PA's for them along with getting a high grind a-rank, (but i guess that only matters if you were not using s-ranks with really high grinds to start with)

not sure what advice i can give either way

[thunder-ray]

I plan on doing GT very soon. When I finish lvling my twin handgun bullets and my crossbow bullets (have yet to lvl them yet) to 31 im going to switch to GT. I however will not be using longbows in that class. I see no point to lvl longbow bullets since I already have lvl 31 rifle bullets but thats just my opinion.

[tirith]

Agreed. I thought you were misled (I didn't based on your first post, just the second)

My problem is my female cast fortegunner maxed out, and I don't want a gunmaster. At he same time, I already have a masterforce at level 1 (female newman) but I'd switch her back to wartecher IF changing my female cast to acrotecher would be a good idea.

So it's one or the other, I cant have 3 techers >_<

you could make 2 AT's and play them very differently, just afk lvl 2 sets of buffs and keep the offensive spells on the newman like a weak masterforce <how i play my AT till her skills are capped for an AT and maybe longer, dunno if i like the idea of giving up my buffs> and play the cast AT similar to an Acrofighter with buffs and heals.

that way it may not feel like you have 2 techers, just 2 chars that can provide some support to a group

[Dymalos]

Agreed. I thought you were misled (I didn't based on your first post, just the second)

My problem is my female cast fortegunner maxed out, and I don't want a gunmaster. At he same time, I already have a masterforce at level 1 (female newman) but I'd switch her back to wartecher IF changing my female cast to acrotecher would be a good idea.

So it's one or the other, I cant have 3 techers >_<

I run with a Beast AT, and it's still my favorite type set at the moment, despite my detours into Fi and AF. As a Beast AT, I focus purely on Melee/Cards and Support techs. I ignore all attack techs, except Diga which I only use against Mother Brain's Arm. A Cast could definitely play AT in the same manner. Your poor TP won't matter if you approach the type in this manner (My Resta at 42 is enough to fully heal a Beast 150 FM), and with decent 30%+ weapons you'll find that you'll be a more efficient killer than a Newman AT who focuses on Attack Techs.