Fighmaster worth it?

[Nv BigPapa vD]

Is it worth switching too, i am lvl 20 on fortefighter, and fighgunner lvl 20....would the stats be better at FM on lvl 20? and is there anything better about it?

[NiceOnes]

http://psupedia.info/index.php?title=Fighmaster

Fighmaster attacks slightly faster..
The biggest reason would be that you can level your skills past level 40 as a Fighmaster.

If I remember correctly all stats with the exception of ATA will be lower as a FM vs. FF.

[FOnewearl-Lina]

You can use tornado dance to move fast! The increase in attack speed makes up for everything else!

What do you have to lose giving it a try?

[Nv BigPapa vD]

yea true, but i mean swapping makes me so much weaker lol

[red1228]

In my personal opinion, I find FighMaster better. But that's just because of the way I play. I don't need ten different weapon types, three is all I need to handle almost any combat situation (except flyers).
I'll use Jabroga (Axe) to either wipe out large groups of monsters on the first spawn or to devastate most bosses. Dus Majarra or Dus Robado (spear) to handle the smaller groups or whatever didn't die from the previous Jabroga. And finally, Spiral Dance or Tornado Dance (double saber) to handle dangerous monsters that I don't want moving around freely (like Bil De Vear or Gaozoran).

Of course, I also have the other PAs for those weapons Lv'd up as well (sup. update will reduce the performance of some of the previously mentioned PAs). But again, this is just how I play.
Yes your HP, ATP, DFP and STA will be a little lower but your Ata and MST will be higher. Also, your EVP will be MUCH lower. This is either a good thing (if you don't like your PA attacks being interrupted by that pesky shield block) or a bad thing if you like blocking... (Tho as both a male and a beast, relying on EVP is rather pointless).


TL;DR - The speed boost is definitely a bonus when using the "heavy" weapons that FM and FF get to use, but at the same time: the severe limitation on weapons will make certain monsters and bosses a hassle to fight.
Stat differences balance out each other in my personal opinion.

[Talise]

Yep, if you're into FF for the 2 handers, you should switch to FM, if you miss your slicers/single hands then don't. That attack speed makes you attack like you're using single hands, pretti handi.

[Nv BigPapa vD]

okay good stuff i will prolly switch later tonight, if i dont like it i will swtich back...

[Hrith]

FF is already a class without much versatility, so if you're FF, you're only losing if you're not going FM. I wish FF were more versatile, so it had a point at all...

Anyway, FM is a very good class, and it's quite fun to play.

[mvffin]

I remember back when FM first came out, almost every mission we ran was faster as level 1 FM than it was as level 20 FF. That's saying something.

I know your stats look lower, but the speed increase MORE than makes up for that. And once your skills are 41+, You'll never look back. Unless you really miss your Knuckles and Slicers that much.

[that cast named kai]

Nv BigPapa vD, the only thing I can say is,

Do you think it is worth changing?

If so, go for it, if not stick with what you got or find something else to swap to

[Nano535]

Is it worth switching too, i am lvl 20 on fortefighter, and fighgunner lvl 20....would the stats be better at FM on lvl 20? and is there anything better about it?

Im not swithing. I would Never give up my Tiga De ragac with my Cross Hurricane, its the best :) I also love my slicer. If you ONLY use a Spear, Ax, Sword, and Doublesaber as fighgunner, then go ahead. I see some great Fighmasters out there, but they are only limited to four weps....so i see no point.

[Gibdozer]

FF is already a class without much versatility, so if you're FF, you're only losing if you're not going FM. I wish FF were more versatile, so it had a point at all...

Anyway, FM is a very good class, and it's quite fun to play.

FF is the most versatile melee class, able to use almost every melee weapon C-S! I hated FM because of it's limited selection. I wish FM were more versatile, so it would be fun to play...

[red1228]

FF is the most versatile melee class, able to use almost every melee weapon C-S! I hated FM because of it's limited selection. I wish FM were more versatile, so it would be fun to play...

While you are correct to say that FF has a large variety of melee weapons, I believe Hrith was referring to the fact that FF uses almost nothing but Melee. It has access to 11 MELEE weapons, but only 1 GUN weapon. Monsters that are melee resistant or are able to fly are still problematic for FF's.

[Talise]

versatile melee class because it has more weapon choice? not realli
FM alreadi has a melee weapon/PA available for every situation involving MELEE. More weapon choices is just a personal preference. If you wanted a slicer and other weapons, you could always go AF.

[Gibdozer]

While you are correct to say that FF has a large variety of melee weapons, I believe Hrith was referring to the fact that FF uses almost nothing but Melee. It has access to 11 MELEE weapons, but only 1 GUN weapon. Monsters that are melee resistant or are able to fly are still problematic for FF's.


versatile melee class because it has more weapon choice? not realli
FM alreadi has a melee weapon/PA available for every situation involving MELEE. More weapon choices is just a personal preference. If you wanted a slicer and other weapons, you could always go AF.

Sorry, but isn't 11 more than 4? More problematic than they are for Fighmaster?


How does Acrofighter factor into a comparison of versatility between Fortefighter and Fighmaster?

Or you could use a slicer with your FF, weapons don't have to be S-ranks to be useful.

[red1228]

Yes... 11 is more then 4, but when all 11 are the exact same "type" as the 4, that does not make them more versatile.

Now I'm not trying to get into a silly argument here, but just because a FF has 7 more MELEE weapons then the FM, doesn't mean that FF will kill the De Rol Le (is out of reach for melee weapons most of the time) or Tengohg (reduces melee damage by roughly 50%) any faster then the FM.

Sure, FF has Handguns but you can't sit there and tell me that a Lv 20 Handgun PA will outperform a Lv 50 Majarra or Spiral Dance on a Tengogh (I can count the number of FF players I've seen who actually use and have Lv'd up their handgun PAs, on one hand, anyway).

Also, when I say "problematic", I don't mean: "Three Carriguine's in a small room with no door/warp VS. one MF that forgot their Regrants that day". I mean "Monster will take four Majarra combo's instead of only one, due to melee resistance".

[Gibdozer]

Versatile=capable of doing many things competently.

In this case using many melee types competently. If you notice I said Fortefighter was the most versatile melee class, not the most versatile class in the game. So yes having use of single handed and twin weapons, as well as the blasters certainly makes FF more versatile than Fighmaster. You can argue that Fighmaster is more powerful, faster, better, whatever but it is certainly not as versatile as Fortefighter!

No a handgun PA won't out damage Majarra (well not till the update at least), but with the right element and a high X/X Phython you can do very respectable damage with the Fortefighters handgun. I can't speak for players you've seen, but I have all my handgun bullets maxed and find it extremely useful.

Just to recap there are sub-types within melee single handed, twin, and double handed. FM can only use S rank weapons in 1 of these categories, while Fortefighter can use almost all of them(C-S for the most part) making it the more versatile melee class.

Handguns are incredibly useful and do very high dps with FF (especially cast). A solid FF can certainly kill the De Rol Le faster than FM, Tengohg probably not though. Melee resistant enemies are difficult for all melee based characters, of course this has no bearing on versatility so I'll leave it at that.

[TecherRamen]

You can use tornado dance to move fast! The increase in attack speed makes up for everything else!

What do you have to lose giving it a try?

This is true. HOWEVER, you must be a PC user and you must be running in frameskip 0.

Also.. boga robado those tengohs as FF theyll go down pretty quick(just spam the first part of the PA)

[Hrith]

Versatile=capable of doing many things competently.Absolutely not. Versatility is being able to do different things. Fortefighter is barely more versatile than Fighmaster, it doesn't matter if it can use seven more melee weapons, it's still melee, i.e. the same type of damage, and therefore does not add to the versatility one bit.

[Magus_84]

Just to recap there are sub-types within melee single handed, twin, and double handed. FM can only use S rank weapons in 1 of these categories, while Fortefighter can use almost all of them(C-S for the most part) making it the more versatile melee class.



I don't quite follow your reasoning here. I mean yes, on the surface, that's a true statement. But the distinction you're drawing is artificial and rather meaningless.

There is no functional difference between a "twin" melee weapon and a "two-handed" melee weapon that's in any way related to whether it's "big beatstick you hold in two hands" or "smaller beatsticks dual-wielded".

A two-handed melee weapon is a two-handed melee weapon. It takes up two potential slots on your pallette. It deals melee-typed damage in a hitbox determined by whatever weapon/PA you're using. Those hitboxes and the damage coming from them are the only functional distinctions between melee PAs. The only additional distinctions between weapon types are by how easy/hard the weapon is to get and whether it has a status effect or not.

Saying "Fortefighter can use both Twin and Two-handed melee weapons from C-S" is artificially inflating the list. Most of the time, if you can use an S in a weapon, you're going to. If you're looking at stats...the only time an S-Rank will be beaten by an A-rank is if you can get the A-Rank in a higher %, or you want a specific status effect from the A-Rank. The SE's available to Fortefighter but not Fighmaster weapons aren't that useful, as they generally mimic melee's primary goal of "damage things til they die". Virus/Incap on claw, etc. You get stuff like Stun/Freeze/ HP steal on some oddball things, but their job of keeping you not-dead can usually be done just as well by killing things with an appropriate level of violence.

Fortefighter's selection of equippable melee weapons is larger than Fighmaster's, yes. But if you're looking at the distinction of "what hitboxes does this hit in what range?", you end up having some very specialized PAs (Jabroga), and some PAs that mimic the effects of others to a lesser or greater degree (Renzan vs Robado vs first two steps of Assault Crush, for example).

Fighmaster gets an additional "specialized" PA (Tornado Dance) and three PAs that mimic or better apply damage to certain collections of hitboxes. Fortefighter gets handguns and more ways to damage those same collections of hitboxes. Fortefighter can get "better" weapons in its equippable spectrum more cheaply, and use those PAs at less of a cost. But I've been trying to come up with a situation where you'd say "hey, I want to hit this thing really hard" and you'd end up not having a PA to do so on Fighmaster, but would on Fortefighter.

I haven't been able to. I can think of many times where Tornado Dance traveling would be an asset, and a few times where being able to shoot something in FPS mode would make things easier. The former situation comes up far more (pretty much every mission) than the latter (missions with flying enemies, flying bosses or obnoxious switches).

If you're arguing "Fortefighter vs Fighmaster", you're already beyond distinctions of "different damage types" or "support vs offense". You're into the realm of "hitting for 74,596 damage in these hitboxes" or "75,233 damage on these hitboxes". Fortefighter didn't magically get "worse" when Fighmaster was introduced. If you're an "omg hardcore" TA'er, your decision's already been made for you (hint: It's not Fortefighter unless you're TAing how fast you can shoot a switch).

If you're anyone else, your choice is going to come down to your available funds (for beatsticks) and which collection of hitboxes you want to attack in which manner on any given day. Which is the point where my attention span fails me, as artificially dividing the ways in which you attack a given collection of hitboxes isn't a very useful distinction.

These "FM vs FF" discussions would be far more pertinent if Fortefighter 10 wasn't a requirement to unlock FM. The two classes are probably the most similar in the game as far as comparing them to other classes goes. They hit things with melee til they die, and either have faster travel and MOAR DPS or cheaper weapons and the ability to hit switches.

[Gibdozer]

Absolutely not. Versatility is being able to do different things. Fortefighter is barely more versatile than Fighmaster, it doesn't matter if it can use seven more melee weapons, it's still melee, i.e. the same type of damage, and therefore does not add to the versatility one bit.

As already stated I'm speaking of versatility within the category of melee weapons. Once again Fortefighter is not a versatile class! It is however the most versatile melee class, able to use the greatest number of different melee weapons.

Your right that it is all melee damage and thus similar, but the weapons and attacks are still different. Within the confines of melee only attacks FF has more variety in weapons and PA skills than FM, therefore it is the more versatile class whether you like it or not.

Damage, hit boxes, time attack are all immaterial to this issue. Even all the extra PAs and Slicers for ranged damage that FF has are irrelevant. The simple fact is that within the category of melee weapons are three sub-sets single, twin, and double. FF can use all three while FM can only use one.

The only way you can consider yourself right, is by saying that knuckles and spears aren't really different weapons, because they both inflict melee damage. Is that what you believe? I guess shotguns and bows aren't different either, I mean it's all ranged damage right!

[Hrith]

Did you have an argument, though?

Versatility WITHIN melee weapons? lol
Is there a situation Fighmaster cannot cover that Fortefighter could? No, didn't think so.

Versatility is doing different things, end of story. The only thing FF can do FM can't is using a single handgun, which will never make up for all the other bonuses FM offers.

[Magus_84]

The simple fact is that within the category of melee weapons are three sub-sets single, twin, and double. FF can use all three while FM can only use one.

The only way you can consider yourself right, is by saying that knuckles and spears aren't really different weapons, because they both inflict melee damage. Is that what you believe? I guess shotguns and bows aren't different either, I mean it's all ranged damage right!

Shotguns and bows are far more different than, say Spears and Knuckles. Shotguns are a multi-enemy weapon for close-range and multi-hitting. Bows are a long-range weapon for sniping single targets.

Compare that to Twin Claws, Knuckles, Claws, Sabers, Daggers, Twin Daggers and Twin Sabers. Name a situation that a PA from one of those can cover that a PA available to FM cannot equal or beat in effectiveness.

The combination of Robado/Jabroga/Majarra/Spiral Dance/Tornado Dance (and the others occasionally) can cover pretty much everything you run into.

The "other" weapons FF can use are simply different-looking ways of covering those same situations.

Whereas, if you have a shotgun, you have a tool for taking out small groups, single enemies or large enemies. If you only have a bow...you can snipe. That's it.

Guns are far more specialized in their purpose (ok, excepting rifle/bow and mechgun/crossbow) than melee is.

[The_Brimada]

Versatile=capable of doing many things competently.

In this case using many melee types competently. If you notice I said Fortefighter was the most versatile melee class, not the most versatile class in the game. So yes having use of single handed and twin weapons, as well as the blasters certainly makes FF more versatile than Fighmaster. You can argue that Fighmaster is more powerful, faster, better, whatever but it is certainly not as versatile as Fortefighter!

No a handgun PA won't out damage Majarra (well not till the update at least), but with the right element and a high X/X Phython you can do very respectable damage with the Fortefighters handgun. I can't speak for players you've seen, but I have all my handgun bullets maxed and find it extremely useful.

Just to recap there are sub-types within melee single handed, twin, and double handed. FM can only use S rank weapons in 1 of these categories, while Fortefighter can use almost all of them(C-S for the most part) making it the more versatile melee class.

Handguns are incredibly useful and do very high dps with FF (especially cast). A solid FF can certainly kill the De Rol Le faster than FM, Tengohg probably not though. Melee resistant enemies are difficult for all melee based characters, of course this has no bearing on versatility so I'll leave it at that.

Just noting that Fighgunner has the same amount of melee weapons as fortefighter. Sure they aren't all Sranks but still they have more versatility overall(and is considered a melee class). Not saying fighgunnner > fortefighter or anything like that, but they are more versatile than FF.

Fortefighter's "versatility" over Fighmaster is hitting a switch, and a flying enemy/boss with their pea shooters. That is it, hardly any reason to choose FF over FM. However, if you like using melee weapons other than double saber, axe, spear, and sword then FF is the way to go.

[Dragwind]

I'd say fighmaster is definitely worth it, especially if you have some other gunner class in your party.

[Gibdozer]

Just noting that Fighgunner has the same amount of melee weapons as fortefighter. Sure they aren't all Sranks but still they have more versatility overall(and is considered a melee class). Not saying fighgunnner > fortefighter or anything like that, but they are more versatile than FF.

Fortefighter's "versatility" over Fighmaster is hitting a switch, and a flying enemy/boss with their pea shooters. That is it, hardly any reason to choose FF over FM. However, if you like using melee weapons other than double saber, axe, spear, and sword then FF is the way to go.

I'll give you that fighgunner could be argued as a more versatile class than Fortefighter. But Fortefighter is obviously more versatile than than Fighmaster! I'm not disputing damage or speed of Fighmaster, but its versatility is non-existant.

[Gibdozer]

Did you have an argument, though?

Versatility WITHIN melee weapons? lol
Is there a situation Fighmaster cannot cover that Fortefighter could? No, didn't think so.

Versatility is doing different things, end of story. The only thing FF can do FM can't is using a single handgun, which will never make up for all the other bonuses FM offers.

No, versatility is capable of doing many things competently/variable and changeable, the word different is not used in the definition of versatile nor is it a synonym(dictionary.com).

FF can use handguns, twin melee weapons, and single handed weapons within melee that is many things. Since FF can use these weapons up to and including S ranks that is competency.

Versatility in melee, Yes, because any time competency and plurality are involved versatility can be measured.


PS Twin daggers are as different from axes as bows are from shotguns. Weapons can deliver the same type of damage(tech, ranged, melee) in very disparate ways.

[biggabertha]

Aren't Twin Daggers worse for damage than Axes though..?

Oh right, the same way Longbows are worse for damage than Shotguns. Right, now I get it.

Fortefighter may be versatile in using many different weapons but the ultimate goal of melee classes is to kill things up close as fast as possible. Fortefighter does this well, I must admit but Fighmaster does it better with a lot less weapons available.

Just because a Fortefighter can use eleven melee weapons (three of which aren't at top proficiency) doesn't make them more versatile than Fighmaster that can use all of its weapons at top proficiency. That's efficiency.

Besides, I don't think that there are any moves outside of Ikk Hikk, Chuei Jitosuishin or Hikai Shuha-zan that merits any consideration or comparison to the arsenal of PAs offered to a Fighmaster. Absolute Dance takes care of bosses like Ikk Hikk, Tornado Dance covers Chuei Jitoshushin's movement ability (if any at all) and as for Hikai Shuha-zan well, Spiral Dance and Gravity Dance practically has those covered.

The only one I'd miss is Rising Strike but turns out that Spiral Dance does basically the same thing. I could go through all of the PAs available to Fortefighter and their styles of attack but at the end of the day, all a Fortefighter has that's better than a Fighmaster is being slow and looking nicer (because of more weapons).

WHich is totally fine and cool if that's what you want but you saying something along the lines that a Fortefighter is better at dealing melee damage than Fighmaster. That's just not true.



On topic: Yeah, Fighmaster seems completely worth it - seems like a LOT of fun and the way it can one shot enemies is really awesome. Anyone seen the video where three or four Fighmasters kill a Dimmagolus in less time than it takes to watch its opening and ending sequence..?

[red1228]

On topic: Yeah, Fighmaster seems completely worth it - seems like a LOT of fun and the way it can one shot enemies is really awesome. Anyone seen the video where three or four Fighmasters kill a Dimmagolus in less time than it takes to watch its opening and ending sequence..?

1. Loading screen
2. All four players Tornado Dance over to the boss
3. All four players JA' Jabroga
4. Loading screen
:)

[Gibdozer]

Aren't Twin Daggers worse for damage than Axes though..?

Oh right, the same way Longbows are worse for damage than Shotguns. Right, now I get it.

Fortefighter may be versatile in using many different weapons but the ultimate goal of melee classes is to kill things up close as fast as possible. Fortefighter does this well, I must admit but Fighmaster does it better with a lot less weapons available.

Just because a Fortefighter can use eleven melee weapons (three of which aren't at top proficiency) doesn't make them more versatile than Fighmaster that can use all of its weapons at top proficiency. That's efficiency.

Besides, I don't think that there are any moves outside of Ikk Hikk, Chuei Jitosuishin or Hikai Shuha-zan that merits any consideration or comparison to the arsenal of PAs offered to a Fighmaster. Absolute Dance takes care of bosses like Ikk Hikk, Tornado Dance covers Chuei Jitoshushin's movement ability (if any at all) and as for Hikai Shuha-zan well, Spiral Dance and Gravity Dance practically has those covered.

The only one I'd miss is Rising Strike but turns out that Spiral Dance does basically the same thing. I could go through all of the PAs available to Fortefighter and their styles of attack but at the end of the day, all a Fortefighter has that's better than a Fighmaster is being slow and looking nicer (because of more weapons).

WHich is totally fine and cool if that's what you want but you saying something along the lines that a Fortefighter is better at dealing melee damage than Fighmaster. That's just not true.



On topic: Yeah, Fighmaster seems completely worth it - seems like a LOT of fun and the way it can one shot enemies is really awesome. Anyone seen the video where three or four Fighmasters kill a Dimmagolus in less time than it takes to watch its opening and ending sequence..?


I'm not sure if you agree with me or not first you say FF may be more versatile in using many different types of weapons, but then you say just because FF can use 11 melee weapons doesn't make them more versatile than FM.

Did you mean it doesn't necessarily make them more combat effective? I don't deny, have never denied, will not deny that FM is an overall more powerful (dps, pa lvl, ta) class than FF, I'm only stating that it is not as versatile. Yes the weapons FM uses it uses more effectively than any other class, but it has little to no variation in its weapon selection(using only one sub-type in melee).

The ultimate goal of melee weapons for you may be to kill things up close as quickly as possible, but for me the ultimate goal is my personal enjoyment. I have maxed FM and FF I prefer FF to FM because of it's versatility. Truthfully though I almost never play either class anymore in favor of hybrids (much more versatile) like PT and WT.

I have played all the master classes at this point, and I really don't care for them. I simply like to have more options in game play than the master classes offer, for me they all got very boring very quickly. I would advise any one to try them and decide for his/her self, but the lack of versatility in those classes(especially (GM and FM) made them feel tedious to me.

I'm satisfied that I have proven my position on FF vs. FM versatility beyond rebuttal, so this is my last post on this thread. It's been an interesting exchange, but you can only watch a cat try to bury a turd in a marble floor for so long before it gets boring.