Pakuda/Pakudac

[stinkyfish97]

Much like the rattlesnake/snac convos. Which one is better? Please which class are you, difference between GM/PT/FG are different. Also race kinda matters in a way.

I have only used the pakudac up to this point and well is there a difference. Greater spread damage from Pakuda because wider bullet? Anything would be helpful.

BTW I play as a Human PT

[CJ Johnny]

Kubara Make/Kubara Copy..... C=Counterfeit, Copy

SN/G, P-Wand, G&M Kubara Make

Pakudac, Rattlesnac and most ended with a 'C'=Copy
I personally when or If I get any with a 'C' at the end, NPC.
Not even worth to spend an S+1 on it.

[red1228]

Pakuda has a wider "spread" but if you can get past 6 or 7 grinds, the Pakudac (like most guns) is better overall.
I myself prefer the originals since I like shiny bullet effects on my S rank guns. If I were to have normal bullet effects, I'd just use grinded A ranks.

[Syn Jerriel]

Kubara Make/Kubara Copy..... C=Counterfeit, Copy

SN/G, P-Wand, G&M Kubara Make

Pakudac, Rattlesnac and most ended with a 'C'=Copy
I personally when or If I get any with a 'C' at the end, NPC.
Not even worth to spend an S+1 on it.



REALLY?


send me you Pakudacs then ill gladly take them off your hands :]

but the only thing i see flawed in your statement is that anything that ends in C u NPC. Meaning it looks like you dont like Copies. so if you have a P-wand, Rucars or SN/G would you NPC those?

OH and on topic Pakudac get better Att n PP after the 8th grind then a 10/10 Pakuda.

[darkante]

As a Gunmaster...

Shotgun: I prefer Kubara copies.
PP matter more then any other status.

Exception for me is my Spread Needle/G, i like alot just for visual.


Rifle: Original version is superior in every way if grinded high enough.
Also, visual effect is pretty nice.


Laser Cannon: Kubara copies is again superior, but i despise them alot..except..
Degahna Cannon is my personal favorite for A-rank.
Can´t wait for the real deal.


Twin Handgun: Original seems to be greater, but it´s not super useful.

[DPShiro]

I use the Pakuda on my GM, mostly because of looks. But it is actually easier to double-hit with and you gotta love that pulsating sound when it fires :)

I'll replace it when the real spread needle comes out.

[red1228]

REALLY?


send me you Pakudacs then ill gladly take them off your hands :]

but the only thing i see flawed in your statement is that anything that ends in C u NPC. Meaning it looks like you dont like Copies. so if you have a P-wand, Rucars or SN/G would you NPC those?

OH and on topic Pakudac get better Att n PP after the 8th grind then a 10/10 Pakuda.

I believe they NPC the "kubara copy" weapons, which unless grinded very high, tend to have lower stats then the "company version" of said-weapon.
Kubara "originals" (Like Carriguine-Rucar or Psycho Wand) tend to be some of the best weapons in the game, which most players would keep or at the very least; sell in their shops for a profit.

[Syn Jerriel]

I believe they NPC the "kubara copy" weapons, which unless grinded very high, tend to have lower stats then the "company version" of said-weapon.
Kubara "originals" (Like Carriguine-Rucar or Psycho Wand) tend to be some of the best weapons in the game, which most players would keep or at the very least; sell in their shops for a profit.

but there are better versions of the rucar and P wand out there right? or is that jsut with the SNG?


but good point though

[NiceOnes]

I want both.

I have the 10/10 Pakuda... Just need to aquire the 10/10 Pakudac.

Why limit oneself?

[red1228]

but there are better versions of the rucar and P wand out there right? or is that jsut with the SNG?


but good point though

No, not currently.
The Rucar will have Carriguine-Rucar+ in the Arms Dealer (we just barely got the 2nd wave for it so god knows when the 3rd will come), but SNOWBALL's CHANCE IN HELL I am gonna risk my set of 34% (5+ grinds) Rucars for a possible 12% "upgrade".

Also, there is no Rod that is better then the Psycho Wand (grinded or not) currently. Its speculated that the 15* rod made from the White Beast dragon will have better stats... But no one knows for sure yet (to my knowledge).

[Hiero_Glyph]

No, not currently.
The Rucar will have Carriguine-Rucar+ in the Arms Dealer (we just barely got the 2nd wave for it so god knows when the 3rd will come), but SNOWBALL's CHANCE IN HELL I am gonna risk my set of 34% (5+ grinds) Rucars for a possible 12% "upgrade".

Also, there is no Rod that is better then the Psycho Wand (grinded or not) currently. Its speculated that the 15* rod made from the White Beast dragon will have better stats... But no one knows for sure yet (to my knowledge).

This pretty much sums up the difference in opinions. The reason some players hate Kubara weapons is that they require 9 or 10 grinds to become dominant.

Kubara weapons are often amazing at high grinds, but as such the cost for these weapons increases dramatically. As not every player can afford 10/10 weapons the Kubara ones seem less attractive to some as the cheaper, lower grinded ones cannot compare to the non-Kubara versions. This means that a Pakuda 5/X is much better than a Pakudac 5/X, but when comparing 10/10's the Pakudac destroyes the Pakuda.

NOTE: Double-shotting is never a factor as any shotgun can do it well. Player skill matters more than the size of the bullet.

[Chuck_Norris]

Also, there is no Rod that is better then the Psycho Wand (grinded or not) currently. Its speculated that the 15* rod made from the White Beast dragon will have better stats... But no one knows for sure yet (to my knowledge).

Gaozoran Rod+ (Whenever that comes out) will be a little bit stronger at 10/10 than a 10/10 Psycho.

[Hrith]

As a Gunmaster...

Shotgun: I prefer Kubara copies.
PP matter more then any other status.I'm not debating your opinion, just strongly disagreeing. Even as GM, PP is never an issue. I'm sure I could use Lumirus / Power Charge and still finish any mission solo with several Photon Charges left =/

The ATP advantage of Kubara copies is completely killed by the ATA loss, anyway.

The only argument is PP versus wider bullets (disregarding looks altogether, obviously).


Laser Cannon: Kubara copies is again superior, but i despise them alot.wat
Kubara copies of what, exactly?
Meteor Cannoc, Neddle Cannoc or Love Infernoc are all awful weapons, even at 10/10, I'm sure you typoed that part of your post...

[Hiero_Glyph]

The ATP advantage of Kubara copies is completely killed by the ATA loss, anyway.

Really?! So the Pakuda has 214 Acc and the Pakudac has 182 Acc. Do you expect me to believe that 32 Acc kills the Pakudac? 32 Acc accounts for <3% of the base Accuracy of a 160/20 female Beast GM (lowest of any GM) and 2% of the base Accuracy on a 160/20 male CAST GM (highest of any GM). That does not include the weapon iteself or any possible bonuses from armor and arm units (or deductions).

Sometimes you really amaze me Hrith. 32 Acc is nothing compared to the total ATA pool that a GM has available and once you factor in diminishing returns it does next to nothing. If anything ATP does the most for a shotgun as it is a factor in each of the 5 shots (Kubara version has a higher ATP rating and less variable damage). Bullet size is negligible as shotguns should be used point-blank and only when firing from a distance does the larger bullet allow you to double-shot more effectively. The additional PP is just an added bonus.

I can't wait for you to provide facts to back up your claim this time.

[Hrith]

The point, which you unsurprisingly missed, is not that 32 ATA makes a difference, but that the ATP difference is just as negligible.


Bullet size is negligibleYou never had any credibility, but you should stop stepping on your own shoes, anyway.

Bullet size makes a notable difference in numerous situations, more than ATP, ATA or PP will ever make.

[Hiero_Glyph]

The point, which you unsurprisingly missed, is not that 32 ATA makes a difference, but that the ATP difference is just as negligible.

You never had any credibility, but you should stop stepping on your own shoes, anyway.

Bullet size makes a notable difference in numerous situations, more than ATP, ATA or PP will ever make.

ATP does not have a diminishing return and is multiplied greatly by the PA modifier; the same cannot be said for ATA. For Shotguns 10 ATP does more than 10 ATA as 10 ATP equates to ~20 ATP after the PA modifier (level 50) is applied while 10 ATA becomes 7 ATA once modified. Who needs credibility when you have facts to support your claim?

As for bullet size, knowing where to position yourself in order to maximize the double-shot is more important than the size of the bullet. Cry all you want over bullet size but in the end it adds very little that a Kubara shotgun cannot manage without. Be aware that there are situations where the larger bullet causes it to clip an object/enemy before it has a chance to double-shot so it is not always a good thing. Oh and don't forget that the Pakuda can cause slowdown on the 360.

Don't get me wrong, I have both and use both but the Kubara shotties are just as effective as the normal versions in almost every situation, especially against larger enemies with multiple hit boxes. The only advantage the Pakuda's larger bullet has is against smaller mobs as the larger bullet clips the enemy and allows all 5 shots to hit the smaller, single target. In most of these cases using a Laser Cannon is the better choice anyway.

[darkante]

wat
Kubara copies of what, exactly?
Meteor Cannoc, Neddle Cannoc or Love Infernoc are all awful weapons, even at 10/10, I'm sure you typoed that part of your post...

Whoops.
I thought they had more ATP at higher grinds, must been thinking of something else.

[Hiero_Glyph]

bloodflowers just posted the weapons variances for the S-rank Gunmaster weapons (http://forums.sega.com/showthread.php?p=5075507&posted=1#post5075507) and it is worth a look. Enjoy.

[MadnessLLD]

I just bought myself a 10/10 Pakudac and I am very disappointed. I was expecting more than ~50 damage more than my 5/10 Pakudas. Not really worth the 90mil spent on it, other than it looking nice in my pallet. I’d rather spend 2/3 that on a 10/10 Pakuda, on which the damage difference will be insignificant.

[Hiero_Glyph]

I just bought myself a 10/10 Pakudac and I am very disappointed. I was expecting more than ~50 damage more than my 5/10 Pakudas. Not really worth the 90mil spent on it, other than it looking nice in my pallet. I’d rather spend 2/3 that on a 10/10 Pakuda, on which the damage difference will be insignificant.

Curious, but what is 50 x 5? 250. That seems pretty significant to me, especially for a single attack.

[Hrith]

You think 250 damage is significant? >_>

It really isn't, most shotguns in this game have a variance greater than that. 250 damage would matter only if 1) all weapons in the game had fixed ATP, and 2) if it allowed to kill in one less shot very consistantly.

I don't notice a difference in killing speed between my Needle Cannon 5/10 and my Love Inferno 10/10 :roll:

[Hiero_Glyph]

You think 250 damage is significant? >_>

It really isn't, most shotguns in this game have a variance greater than that. 250 damage would matter only if 1) all weapons in the game had fixed ATP, and 2) if it allowed to kill in one less shot very consistantly.

I don't notice a difference in killing speed between my Needle Cannon 5/10 and my Love Inferno 10/10 :roll:

He is specifically talking about the Pakudac, you know, the shotgun with the second lowest variance in the game. But yes, other shotguns suffer for a higher variance. As for 250 being significant, yes it is. Think about the number of shots it takes to kill most enemies and then subtract out 250 from each of those bursts. This could easily account for 1,000+ damage. This added damage is especially useful on larger mobs where double-shotting turns that 250 into 500! Also, the added PP on the shotgun never hurts either.

The laser cannon only hits an enemy once per pull of the trigger versus five times for the shotgun, or 10 if you double-shot. I'm pretty sure you can figure out why there is less of a difference in killing speed for laser cannons as a result.

[Hrith]

It doesn't matter because a Pakudac 10/10 will not kill faster than a Pakuda 0/10, in the end.

As for double-shooting, Pakudac is a terrible weapon for that, so whereas a Pakudac will hit seven or eight times when double shooting, a Pakuda or even better a Baret will hit ten times, making that 50 added damage per bullet not only insignificant, but also a waste.

The lower ATA of Pakudac will also make that 50 added damage completely useless, in the long run, because even one miss means losing over 1000 damage when a Gunmaster -- you'd then need twenty successful shots to make up for it.

Taking those two facts into account will amount to much, much more than the "1,000+ damage" you were refering to.

[Hiero_Glyph]

It doesn't matter because a Pakudac 10/10 will not kill faster than a Pakuda 0/10, in the end.

As for double-shooting, Pakudac is a terrible weapon for that, so whereas a Pakudac will hit seven or eight times when double shooting, a Pakuda or even better a Baret will hit ten times, making that 50 added damage per bullet not only insignificant, but also a waste.

The lower ATA of Pakudac will also make that 50 added damage completely useless, in the long run, because even one miss means losing over 1000 damage when a Gunmaster -- you'd then need twenty successful shots to make up for it.

Taking those two facts into account will amount to much, much more than the "1,000+ damage" you were refering to.

Here we go again with the ATA thing. An S-rank Shotgun has anywhere from 137-255 Acc; the Pakuda and Pakudac have 214 and 182 respectively. This accounts for a difference of 32 Acc total. Then you factor in the 70% Acc modifier of the elemental Shotgun PAs and this 32 Acc turns into ~22. 22 Acc will never matter when compared to the base ATA of a 160/20 Gunmaster (including the Shotgun's Acc), even with the L/KK's -100 ATA penalty and the 70% Acc modifier.

As for bullet size, we have been over this too, your character's positioning does more for double-shotting than the size of the bullet, especially against larger mobs/bosses. Against small mobs the larger bullets helps as it allows all five bullets to clip the target from farther away, but this matter much less as the enemies get larger. Again, positioning your character properly will offset the slight advantage of the larger bullet entirely.

As for stating that the Pakudac 10/10 will not kill faster than a Pakuda 0/10, we both know that it happens at random and the odds are in favor of the Pakudac 10/10 due to the higher average damage and the chance for critical hits. Also, against bosses and larger enemies that require many shots to kill, the chances for killing in fewer shots also increases due to the extra damage of the Pakudac. In fact, the only weapon that can kill in fewer shots than the Pakudac is the SN/G and it's higher variance often negates it's higher damage.

[biggabertha]

Pakudac will hit seven or eight times when double shooting, a Pakuda or even better a Baret

What..?! The Baret has bigger bullets..?!

Gah - and I was there thinking that Shigga Pakuda would be better because the bullets look HUGE (then again... so do the ones from Shigga Desta...).

Good thing I've kept all three of my Shigga Barets - and they're cheap as hell now from everyone spamming that last event run with Magashis in them, heh.


As a male Human Gunmaster, I've missed with a Shotgun - all five shots once as well. That was with the Shigga Pakuda and I was using a Vijerina / Power too. So chances are, if I do that with a Shigga Pakuda then something that has LESS accuracy as a base will undoubtedly have MORE of a chance to miss.

Even if that chance is less than 1%, I would not like to chance that at all. 1% chance is still a HUGE percentage of your shots when you shoot at least a hundred times per mission.

Ten missions and that's statistically ten misses... gah...


Which leads back to the size of the bullet - if you can increase the odds of you landing double shots with large bullets then you get to deal more damage. Guess this means I'll be going back to using a Shigga Baret then but the accuracy of the Shigga Pakuda... oh noes....

[SammaeltheDark]

Hi. What's double-shotting? Is that when your reload animation gets canceled by your block animation and you can fire off a second round faster?

[Ruru]

double shotting is when 1 bullet hits two targets on one or more enemies.

if you position yourself correctly, each of your bullets can hit two targets instead of one, doubling your damage. (also works for leveling PAs)