Worth making a Ranger?

[Commissar]

Two questions:
In PSZ, are Rangers useful? And if so, RAcast or RAcaseal?

[furrypaws]

I suppose, but nowhere as useful as they used to be. Half of the times, shooting across gaps just gets an auto-block from the creature (which is a massive pain in some of the squiggly designed rooms), you can no longer cause status effects on demand (you just have to hope they happen when you fire the weapon), which basically nerfs the two good things that Rangers were good at. They're still fun to play, though, so if you like being a ranger, go for it.

As for RAcast/caseal, RAcast has more of the "physical" stats, basically, HP, DFP, ATP. RAcaseal has superior PP, ATA (highest in the game to be exact), EVP, and MST (MST barely matters on a cast, so you can ignore that). The differences between the two are pretty small, though, so as long as you've decided on a Ranger Cast, I'd say go with the one you want to watch the most throughout however long you stay with the game.

[Commissar]

Ah, thanks. The gap-block might be a deal breaker.

[furrypaws]

When I'm soloing on my RAmar, I normally just end up using a Twin Brand I found. That's partially due to the fact that I haven't found a good rifle yet, but also just the fact that since a lot of the rooms have gaps in them, I have to run pretty close to the enemies anyways. He's sort of like a nerfed Hunter with range benefits, but hopefully finding a good Rifle or pair of Mechs will change that.

It's not terrible, though. Being a ranger definitely comes in handy during some boss fights and giant rooms. It's just the stupid gap-block, which, while it admittedly doesn't occur every hit, shouldn't be happening at all, let alone pretty much every other hit. I can sort of see why they put it in there, but I wish Sega had thought it through a little more.

[Clunker]

Very stupid question:
What do you mean by 'shooting across gaps'? And when this occurs, many bosses end up blocking the ranged attack?

[furrypaws]

To best explain, I'll start with the basics.

Instead of there being two giant maps (which would kill the DS), there are two major sections. Then, inside those two sections are rooms, similar to how rooms were on regular PSO with a few exceptions. The exits always either go up, down, left, or right, and each room is separate from the other by a very, very small white loading screen (doesn't interrupt the game at all basically). There are some rooms with curvy pathways. Think like an "N" shaped room for instance. If you were to stand on one leg of the "N", and an enemy were to stand on the other, then you were to fire across that gap with a ranged weapon, there would be a high chance that, instead of doing damage and seeing the numbers, you'd see a golden capital letter word saying "BLOCK" with no damage done. I can draw pictures on Paint if you need further explanation, since I probably didn't describe that very well. Gap block is most infuriating when you're firing at something really close to you but caught on a corner. Basically, if you fire across an area you can't walk across to an enemy on an area that you can walk across, gap block can occur. It doesn't occur if a flying enemy is in the gap, but I think it does occur if the flying enemy is on the other side of the gap.

This does not take place on bosses thankfully, although the only one I can think of that has a "gap" is the Octopus, and I know the "gapshot" doesn't occur there.

[Niered]

To best explain, I'll start with the basics.

Instead of there being two giant maps (which would kill the DS), there are two major sections. Then, inside those two sections are rooms, similar to how rooms were on regular PSO with a few exceptions. The exits always either go up, down, left, or right, and each room is separate from the other by a very, very small white loading screen (doesn't interrupt the game at all basically). There are some rooms with curvy pathways. Think like an "N" shaped room for instance. If you were to stand on one leg of the "N", and an enemy were to stand on the other, then you were to fire across that gap with a ranged weapon, there would be a high chance that, instead of doing damage and seeing the numbers, you'd see a golden capital letter word saying "BLOCK" with no damage done. I can draw pictures on Paint if you need further explanation, since I probably didn't describe that very well. Gap block is most infuriating when you're firing at something really close to you but caught on a corner. Basically, if you fire across an area you can't walk across to an enemy on an area that you can walk across, gap block can occur. It doesn't occur if a flying enemy is in the gap, but I think it does occur if the flying enemy is on the other side of the gap.

This does not take place on bosses thankfully, although the only one I can think of that has a "gap" is the Octopus, and I know the "gapshot" doesn't occur there.

Ive heard lots of people complain about this, and for good reason. This is a stupid as hell design choice on Sega's part. Its the one thing that really makes me reconsider rolling a ramarl as my first character.

Usually I am the last to whine about "realism" in games, I'm one of those folks who think that Resident Evils control scheme (after RE4 of course) is perfect. But this is just stupid in my opinion. What basis is there for enemies magically blocking your attack because theyre standing on the opposite side of a hole? Maybe if they didnt want people to exploit the AI, they shouldnt have made areas that allow that? Or better yet made the AI more intuitive?

Quick question though, you said there is a "high probability" of this happening. Is this based on sheer luck, or does your ATA actually lessen the chance of it?

[Akaimizu]

The real problem with it is that Techs can reach over the gap. Mind you, the Multi-hit Techs don't necessarily have that great a targetting distance. However, I do kind of see why they were worried about Rangers simply due to their targetting range. The system was implemented to avoid the Ranger going into the room and killing the mobs before the others could run close enough to attack given the others don't have such long-reaching targetting indicators.

However, as you would say, the issue is that they should've calculated distance in the routine. Why should a ranger be right near a monster over a small gap and not hit them like a Force could, over the same distance?

[furrypaws]

I'm going to have to test this out later, and I know it sounds kind of shaky, but I think gap block occurrence rate is based off of which difficulty you're in. I noticed that I could get shots in every now and then when I'm playing Hard mode, but when I went to Super Hard Dark Shrine (last multimode level), pretty much every shot over a gap was being gap blocked. I'll test it out more later.

It also appears that firing over scenery (random mine carts, tables, etc.) can also induce gap block.

To be honest, though, Rangers do such low damage and the rooms are already so small that there's no way they could pick off an entire group of enemies before the Hunters/Forces could get to them, unless they're like level 80 in Normal or something. And even that wouldn't be much of a problem, since you get EXP just by being in the room this time around; No tagging required.

It's also annoying to be gap blocked on a corner with a gun because, if you do it right, you can hit them with a spear easily, and there's no gap block punishment for that either. =/

I can see what Sega was trying to do, but it was definitely not worth it.

[Akaimizu]

Point taken. Kind of a shame the guns don't spam effects as well as they did in PSU. You can tell that while I've played this game, I've barely played a Ranger much, at this time. My main is a Ramar, which I've played for a good while; I just started a Ranger.

Edit: I mean my main is a FOmar, my RAmar is new.

[furrypaws]

Point taken. Kind of a shame the guns don't spam effects as well as they did in PSU. You can tell that while I've played this game, I've barely played a Ranger much, at this time. My main is a Ramar, which I've played for a good while; I just started a Ranger.

Care to elaborate? I'm a little confused by the last statement.

But likewise, I've really only played my RAmar. I'm trying to get a FOmarl through the story mode just to see how broken they really are, and to see how Grants and Megid work. It's rather unfortunate that Rangers got the short end of the stick this time around though. I guess Forces finally get the chance they always wanted to shine; they've always sort of been left behind in the dust, especially after v2 for the Dreamcast. Hunters sort of are the same as they've always been, and as I perceive they always will be; smack them boomas, smack them hard.

[Akaimizu]

Sorry. Don't know what I posted there. I meant my main is a FOmar, my very late second is a RAmar.

[Clunker]

To best explain, I'll start with the basics.

... Basically, if you fire across an area you can't walk across to an enemy on an area that you can walk across, gap block can occur. It doesn't occur if a flying enemy is in the gap, but I think it does occur if the flying enemy is on the other side of the gap.

This does not take place on bosses thankfully, although the only one I can think of that has a "gap" is the Octopus, and I know the "gapshot" doesn't occur there.

Ah, thank you - this explained it nicely. I'll bet that it's somewhat easy to get mobs 'stuck' in/on such gaps? That they won't easily navigate around them to get to you?

If so, Sega's easybutton fix was this gapblock I'll bet - that way the player has to be 'vunerable' in order to feasibly attack the target.

[Niered]

Ah, thank you - this explained it nicely. I'll bet that it's somewhat easy to get mobs 'stuck' in/on such gaps? That they won't easily navigate around them to get to you?

If so, Sega's easybutton fix was this gapblock I'll bet - that way the player has to be 'vunerable' in order to feasibly attack the target.

Exactly, they couldnt be bothered to implement pathfinding AI. That was fine in PSO, because face it, the rooms were generally open enough that the enemies would be able to get to you no matter what. But if your going to put gaps in the rooms, then the enemies need a way to get around them. You cant honestly tell me that pathfinding AI routines are so hard to program that you didnt have the space to put them in, I'm an indie game dev, I can tell you from experience that basic pathfinding is not hard to implement.

[Clunker]

Ah, beg pardon, Niered.

Never said it was hard-to-implement (pathfinding), just that SEGA would likely have found this easier to implement. However, I do think you are completely right - they SHOULD have corrected the pathfinding.

[Niered]

Ah, beg pardon, Niered.

Never said it was hard-to-implement (pathfinding), just that SEGA would likely have found this easier to implement. However, I do think you are completely right - they SHOULD have corrected the pathfinding.

Oh no I wasnt ranting at you! Sorry that that was confusing, I was just ranting about sega, none of that was directed at you, sorry!

I was agreeing with you, there method was an easy fix, a patch to the flat tire if you will. What they should have done is just add pathfinding, but oh well.

[furrypaws]

I thought of another thing that makes Rangers (well, RAmar/l) worse.

Rangers get two buffs and Hunters get two buffs, which is fair I guess. But what doesn't make much sense is the fact that the HUmar and HUnewearl get Shifta and Deband while the RAmar and RAmarl get Jellen and Zalure. To cast Shifta and Deband, you can be anywhere. To cast Jellen and Zalure, you have to be near the enemies, which defeats the point of being a RANGEr. Goodness, Sega. You at least had that right since PSOGC.

[Quintus_The_Force]

Wow... good thing I read this thread! Not because I was gonna make a ranger, but because look at all these changes! Gap block? wtfffff.... I see why they did it kinda but man there is a better way to fix that like you guys said.

Hunters can cast Deband and Shifta now? That's cool I guess.. But weird how they split the 4 buff spells between the hunters and rangers like that. Seems backwards lol

But anyways... umm.. Khmmm Rangers are for beginners IMO, and im assuming nobody in this thread is a PSO noob... save the 3 slots for admirable characters

[Arikado]

But guys... think about it... GUNS! FREAKING GUNS!

I know i'll be making a Ranger as my first character, can't wait.

(Seriously did you hear the sound of the guns? No more laser "sissy" stuff!)


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UbLnb5VdEGA

[landman]

My first character was a Ranger and I really enjoyed it, human manufactured guns indeed sound and look awesome, lunar guns are ugly as hell xD and the remnants of the CAST technology are more in a "phantasy" stile. Also, gunst Photon Arts are incredible, say Matrix? no, guns PAs XD

[Dragwind]

Rangers have always been my favorite choice right up there with hunter types. PSZ makes being a ranger seem way more fun than it was in PSO to begin with, so that will probably be my first character this time.