Urgh. Please tell me I'm not f*cked.

[DreXxiN]

Ok, I'll try to nutshell this as much as possible.


First and foremost, this was before, my mentioned a bit later on in this post, ER visit. I applied for something called BadgerCare+ (basically, a state implemented health insurance, due to the fact that I'm currently unemployed due to my last company going down the dumps.) I sent the fee, and haven't heard from them in the last month.

Now, here's the scenario.

Not long ago, I visited the hospital due to a severe asthma attack. Shitty, right? Well I'm glad I went, I mean it was nice not gasping and struggling to breathe every minute of my life!

..Well I just got my bill today. 633 dollars. Hooooly shit. Mind you, this doesn't include the 100 dollar fee you get just for entering the ER..this is simply the doctor bill. I haven't even received the treatment bill, yet.

Are you fucking kidding me? I was there for less than 4 hours, got two inhalers, that although were very effective, lasted me all of a week, if that, due to how horrible my breathing was at the time (I actually ran out too soon, and had to resort to sticking my head in the freezer for cold air, standing in certain positions to breathe, and preemptively taking cough drops so I don't get into explosive coughing fits that trigger my terrible breathing.)

My breathing treatment there was MAYBE 20 minutes long, with just the oxygen mask they give you temporarily. I mean, hell this wasn't even overnight and I'm willing to bet I haven't even gotten half the bill.

Is it really this expensive to breathe?! *Flips the giant bird to US healthcare.* Hell, I just really feel like I don't deserve this. I can't control it, nor do I smoke (albeit I acquired plenty of second hand smoke in my earlier days due to my my family).

So I suppose my question would be: Is there any chance the state insurance might wave my recent fee away, if it ever comes? I'm just hoping this is so, because otherwise I'm really stumped on how to deal with this, and I've been very actively job hunting. I guess I just have to hope for the best, as my assumptions is that this insurance will only cover future mishaps. Let's hope I'm wrong, but if you have experience with state public insurance, please give me any information you might have. I really appreciate anything anyone can offer. God Bless everyone, and never take your normal breathing for granite; for it is surely the greatest of blessings.

[W0LB0T]

and never take your normal breathing for granite; for it is surely the greatest of blessings.

Hmm...Breathing or Granite. Hard Choice.

Well thats all i got, being that I dont have to deal with the US Healthcare system, or their in lack of it.

[beatrixkiddo]

Maybe you should have thought about that when you were born with asthma!

[Volcompat321]

What Bea said, and sorry to hear all this :( It's really a shame they fucked you like that.
Glad I'm never sick...EVER.
Also, did you vote for Obama?

[SabZero]

You should ask the insurance that. Unless you applied before the incident though, I don't see it happen. If you're in financial troubles, ask your local authorities or charities if there's some sort of help for medical bills.

[Squirrel3D]

I have asthma and I didn't vote for Obama (is an independant).

Your hospital is to blame for this. How could they not even treat you yet and just charge you out of the blue? They could've given you an estimate for the treatment too.

This has nothing to do with the entire healthcare system. It's simply one hospital screwing with you and giving you a hard time.

So let's not turn this into a political or social issue about that so-called health bill that the noob president is trying to shove down everyone's throats without the majority approval of congress.



(Oh see now I did it. Ever since I first came to this place, I have tried my best to aviod spilling my political views in this place. The moment Volcompat321 said "Also, did you vote for Obama?", I knew exactly that this person was gonna bring up that BS healthcare bill should anyone have answered that question. Not to mention, it was related to the poor dude being screwed by a hospital. I just couldn't help myself at that moment and I had to say something about it. Whenever someone brings up politics, I have a bad habit of jumping right into the convo. It happened here and now I'm expecting a ton of negative replys to this post. So since I brought it out, might as well go all the way)

[biggabertha]

Ah bugger... sorry to hear about that.

Guess that's where they really get you in America - with your own health that you can't do anything about. Demanding payment for such extensive operations or procedures is extremely expensive... what happens if you don't have insurance and you break a leg..? Or worse, develop some kind of liver problem and need a transplant..?

How much is THAT going to cost you..?

Sorry to hear about your loss and for the treatment they provided (that wasn't exactly the best either...)

[Squirrel3D]

At least our system is still better than other countries, though

[Outrider]

Your hospital is to blame for this. How could they not even treat you yet and just charge you out of the blue? They could've given you an estimate for the treatment too.

This has nothing to do with the entire healthcare system. It's simply one hospital screwing with you and giving you a hard time.

That's... not true. At all. This is the way hospitals generally work. Have you ever been admitted to an ER or hospital? I went to the ER back in April and this is almost exactly how things went down (though I was lucky enough to have my insurance pay for part of it. X-rays and other tests make things quite expensive.)

Also, he clearly says that he received treatment at the ER, hence why he wasn't having trouble with his breathing afterwards. Of course they're going to charge him.

Just... try and have some idea of what you're talking about if you're going to try and discuss it as a political issue - actually, if you're going to try and discuss it at all.

The one recommendation I can make is to try calling the hospital and explaining your situation to them. More often than not, they're willing to cut some sort of deal with you (especially since $633 probably isn't worth taking you to court over it). Just make sure you can give some leeway. Obviously they're not going to waive the fee, but if you can pay something like half of it, they might be willing to negotiate.

[DreXxiN]

At least our system is still better than other countries, though

Well, for one, this is the rants section, an area specifically dedicated to Bawwing. Not everything said in such places will be rational; it's generally more of a vent ;P.

Secondly, I know we don't have it the worst. You know, third world countries and such obviously (for the most part) can rough it more. This isn't exactly an "Oh woe is me, I have it worse than anyone!" It just upset me enough that I felt the need to post it.

I suppose I'll just hope for the best. I, personally, would rather have a Canadian type of healthcare or that in the European countries, where, you know, you can't die from diseases because you don't have money and can no longer afford treatment.

[Volcompat321]

Wall o' text saying something about not bringing up Obama's bill.
You totally blew that out of proportion. It was meant to be sarcastic, though you couldn't tell if you've never read my posts, and since it's text, not voice.


That's... not true. At all. This is the way hospitals generally work. Have you ever been admitted to an ER or hospital? I went to the ER back in April and this is almost exactly how things went down (though I was lucky enough to have my insurance pay for part of it. X-rays and other tests make things quite expensive.)

Also, he clearly says that he received treatment at the ER, hence why he wasn't having trouble with his breathing afterwards. Of course they're going to charge him.

Just... try and have some idea of what you're talking about if you're going to try and discuss it as a political issue - actually, if you're going to try and discuss it at all.

The one recommendation I can make is to try calling the hospital and explaining your situation to them. More often than not, they're willing to cut some sort of deal with you (especially since $633 probably isn't worth taking you to court over it). Just make sure you can give some leeway. Obviously they're not going to waive the fee, but if you can pay something like half of it, they might be willing to negotiate.

For once, (well really more than once) I can actually agree with you 100%.
I think I'm starting to understand how you work, Outrider!
(I'm just messing with you..)

[Squirrel3D]

I, personally, would rather have a Canadian type of healthcare or that in the European countries, where, you know, you can't die from diseases because you don't have money and can no longer afford treatment.

Then go move there if you like it so much.

[Volcompat321]

You really are a horrible person, aren't you?

This thread is more or less about him being poor(no offense DreX), and you tell him to move because he said he likes something about the country.
Something so significantly better than where he's at now.
You make no sense.
P.S. You like Obama.
Give me 10 good reasons why you don't, and I will not talk politics.
(I'm just kidding, please don't actually list reasons, cause I really don't care)

[Outrider]

I think I'm starting to understand how you work, Outrider!

This is why people need to review their Outrider instruction manuals before attempting to interact with them.



Then go move there if you like it so much.

Because he wishes one element of his home country were more similar to the comparable element in another country? Seriously? I mean, do you even think before you type things or do you just mash your hands against the keyboard in an attempt to repeat illogical viewpoints that you heard on the TV?

[Leviathan]

Usually when this happens you can tell the hospital and they may reduce the bill.

When my mom fell and gashed her hand she told them she coudn't pay it off they cut the bill and half, gave her the staples, and the $150 paid for the two weekly visits.

[Sayara]

Don't they have a payment plan? Like pay xxx$ for an x amount of time?

[DreXxiN]

Thanks for any suggestions, everyone. I will try and consult the hospital to work something out.


Don't they have a payment plan?
I received the bill as one solid payment, but I'm sure that, more than likely, there's a way I can make payment arrangements. If not, bummer. Last night I was just a bit terrified and puzzled. I'm feeling a bit better now, so I can go about making things a bit easier on myself; therefore, I can probably formulate some strategy to work this out one way or another.
But for now, huzzah for hardcore job hunts!.....*thrilled*

@Volc: No offense taken. =P

[Randomness]

So let's not turn this into a political or social issue about that so-called health bill that the noob president is trying to shove down everyone's throats without the majority approval of congress.


Um... I don't know where to begin with this.

1-The president has exactly ONE formal power for lawmaking, and that's veto. Everything else is influence.

2-The DFL holds a majority in both houses of Congress. Until the passing of the late Kennedy, they held the all-important 3/5 supermajority in the Senate.

3-It's a health bill. As in, it has to do with the nation's health care infrastructure. The use of the term "so-called" is inappropriate, and simply serves to apply negative connotations.

4-Obama has not, to my knowledge, given his personal endorsement to any of the several bills floating around in Congress

5-On that note, there is no single "health care bill". There are as many bills as there are senators and representatives who feel like submitting one. There's not even a limit to how many they can submit, besides inevitable political backlash if they did something silly like submitting 500 versions of the same thing.

6-There are, in fact, actual efforts in the Senate to get GOP input for a bill. To my knowledge, that's still ongoing, and no bill at all has been submitted from those talks.

7-Your comments are very obviously biased. I'll admit I dislike the GOP. I dislike them because I feel a number of their positions are asinine, such as never, ever, increasing taxes. (While, of course, always being for slashing them-not that any party is innocent of this half of the charge) In my opinion, that's short-sighted and stupid, and there it isn't possible to balance the budget solely by cutting spending. (Unless you want to touch defense spending, a category in which we account for 50% of the world total, 80% of NATO's total, and rank in at 10 times the expenditure of our nearest competitor, at least by 2007 (I think, might be a year or two earlier) numbers)
Mostly, I just see the GOP as uncompromising zealots.

8-You should really avoid repeating things as you hear them. I can't really say for sure that you're just quoting the more extreme sources verbatim, but the wording is well-crafted from the viewpoint of pissing people off without actually saying anything that is both true and that they disagree with. (Its surprising how much opinion will change solely on the wording of a statement, while keeping the literal meaning the same)

[Squirrel3D]

Then screw this. Since I make no since according to some people, I'll just stick with gaming and anime and sports threads.

Besides, I could really turn up the volume on my political views, but I don't feel like dealing with being ran out of this place. From here on, I'll keep it to myself and just post what I think in YouTube videos.

And oh by the way I DO FEEL SORRY FOR THE GUY. But since this is where the thread has gone to, I'm not gonna waste anymore time.

[Nitro Vordex]

It's not that you're not making sense, you're just making it in the wrong way. You should always think about what you've heard, what you've been told, and even what you've learned first-hand. Stating whatever you're talking about as fact(and in a really asshat kind of way)usually just tends for people to turn on the mute button in their brains.

On topic: I know exactly how the ER is. My brother waited in the ER for 4 hours on the verge of a heart attack. The details are fuzzy now, as it's been a few years, but I know it was a ridiculous wait. I think there was even some lady on a bed waiting with the ER patients to be treated.

I don't know if doctors actually do their job and it takes awhile, or if they just dick around all the time.

[Volcompat321]

I've interned at a hospital, and I know doctors, and even nurses sometimes come off as asshole, dicks, bitches, whores, sluts, and c-wait that's probably going too far.
Anyway, at a good hospital, they all actually do their job, and even in a small city there can upwards of a few thousand people waiting to be treated (not only ER obviously, trough out the entire hospital).
The nurses work harder than the doctors actually, running around all the time (other than surgeries, and whatnot of course).
Ever since I started working, I've been in health care, (not hospitals, and I'm not a doctor) but it's the same almost no matter where you have nurses and doctors.
Some doctors just get pain too much, and can become dicks that way...
Like the docs at the mental health facility I work(ed) at.
They make over $1000 a day, and see maybe 30 patients within 4 hours, then go to other jobs. (yea, work 4 hours make a grand, then go to another job).
But, those guys "did their time" in the medical business. Most are old and on the verge of retirement.

[CrimsomWolf]

I, personally, would rather have a Canadian type of healthcare or that in the European countries, where, you know, you can't die from diseases because you don't have money and can no longer afford treatment.

Then you'd probably meant France and clinics in West Germany. Most good hospitals in Europe are actually private - and tend to charge fees. A lot.
Dunno 'bout Canada tough.

In many cases, the "public" hospitals charge fees as well actually. Or partially. In my (former) homecountry, (Poland) we have state-run healthcare system - but in most cases I think you still pay for hospital bills. It's just that a lot is covered by state-run insurance. Which is terribly organised. Plus there massive lines to just about anything in public hospitals - you may not die from lack of money, but from the fact that hospital didn't have enough places and can't take you in or because there're not enough doctors. I suppose that health care in more developed countries, (like France, Germany, U.K) is better, but more people used to opt for private clinics - the doctors are simply better there, and you don't have to push through all the mass of state-run bureaucracy .

Not that state-run healthcare system is that bad. It's just that not many countries got around to doing it right.

[Volcompat321]

I say we vote: communism.
(jk).

[Nitro Vordex]

Having universal health care would suck, as we'd have less reliable doctors.

[Volcompat321]

They would still get paid.
The health care system would probably worsen though.
Really, it's only bad if you don't have good insurance.
Luckily, I was blessed with Health First insurance from my work, and from my father.
(at least until I turn 24)
So whatever mine doesn't cover, his does.
Sometimes I wish you could just use your insurance for other people.
Sucks having it, and not having to use it, but needing it and not having it. Lose/lose situation for someone that's never sick.
Cause once you get rid of it, you will need it.

[Outrider]

Having universal health care would suck, as we'd have less reliable doctors.

We already have public healthcare for millions of people, and the doctors they go to aren't any worse than any other doctor.

That's a pretty large leap to assume that universal health care for uninsured citizens would suddenly make all our doctors less reliable.

[DreXxiN]

We already have public healthcare for millions of people, and the doctors they go to aren't any worse than any other doctor.

That's a pretty large leap to assume that universal health care for uninsured citizens would suddenly make all our doctors less reliable.

Indeed, from other hospital visits for loved ones, I can already say that I doubt they'd get less reliable, at least where I live.

@CrimsonWolf: Yeah you're probably right; I hear stories from a friend who lives in W. Germany that used to be a former guild mate of mine on PSOGC, so that's probably where I got my info.

[Squirrel3D]

Having universal health care would suck, as we'd have less reliable doctors.

Not to mention many other things that I'm not gonna say here, because I know I'll get responses like (ohh your just reading from a talk show) or some other BS. Instead, I will direct you to ask a Cuban how their country's health system is, since it's also universal healthcare.

*BTW all of my posts on the topic was from my OWN thinking of it. I don't need some conservative talk show host to tell me what I already know myself*

[astuarlen]

Having universal health care would suck, as we'd have less reliable doctors.

Quit trolling, Nitro; I'm afraid someone will take this at face-value and mistake it for a convincing argument.

To the OP: Good luck negotiating with the hospital.
I've been fortunate enough to not be born with or develop any major life-threatening or life-impoverishing illnesses, but a very close family member has basically had to suck it up and avoid getting positive testing--let alone treatment--for a painful, chronic issue lest some time in the distant future they actually have the resources to buy insurance but get excluded on the basis of a preexisting condition. Fucked up this system is.

[Squirrel3D]

Quit trolling, Nitro; I'm afraid someone will take this at face-value and mistake it for a convincing argument.



Like me.


And I'm not denying that our healthcare system is fucked up....however it is fucked up in CERTAIN AREAS! You can't say all hospials are screwed up simply because you never been to all of them. My grandmother attends Mercy Hospital here in baltimore....and she's never had issues with them before. I've even went with her to some of the visits to see this first hand. So at least one hospital isn't as screwed up as others.....like Johns Hopkins (also here in baltimore).

So why compeltely overhaul a good system instead of just getting rid of the BS that is holding it down. Well I know the answer, but I just can't say it in this place. :rant:

[Outrider]

Instead, I will direct you to ask a Cuban how their country's health system is, since it's also universal healthcare.

France, Italy and Spain all have some form of universal healthcare - and they're all within the top ten of the World Health Organization's ranking of the world's health systems. Not all forms of universal healthcare are the same, just as not all countries are the same.


So why compeltely overhaul a good system instead of just getting rid of the BS that is holding it down. Well I know the answer, but I just can't say it in this place. :rant:

Because the proposed "overhaul" will mostly affect those without coverage or with poor coverage, and not the rest of the healthcare system.

I have to ask this - Have you at any point read any part of the proposed healthcare bills? I'm not crazy - I know I haven't read everything nor have most people, but I'd hope that most of us are somewhat informed on the topic. My major issue is that most of what you've referred to so far is hearsay and anecdotal at best.

[Volcompat321]

Weird. It says Outrider was the last to post, but I cant see the post.

[HUnewearl_Meira]

First and foremost, this was before, my mentioned a bit later on in this post, ER visit. I applied for something called BadgerCare+ (basically, a state implemented health insurance, due to the fact that I'm currently unemployed due to my last company going down the dumps.) I sent the fee, and haven't heard from them in the last month.

I am a Type I Diabetic, and I am also unemployed, very much like you are. Needless to say, I've dealt quite a lot with the sort of last-ditch, local government-run medical insurance program that you're talking about. In my experience, their coverage is typically retro-active-- they'll apply their coverage to any recent hospital expenses that you may have incurred. Just make sure that they know about it.

I would also advise you to be aggressive about getting your coverage from them. Some of those programs can be quite a nuisance to get signed up with, and if I were in charge of the planning process, that aspect would be entirely deliberate. They want to make sure that the people who finally get to an interview are actually in need of it.

If you haven't heard from these people in a while, then give them a call, and ask about your application.

[CrimsomWolf]

Universal healthcare doesn't suck. It's the people who organize it.

I would be scared shitless if all we had was private healthcare too - just because you pay for it, doesn't mean it's always good.

My mother was operated in private hospital and the personnel there sucked hard, always giving dammn about patients there. There was a girl who was having her first period. Nobody from personnel cared to lift finger to help her get through it. My mom had to help her, buy her the stuff and so on...

[Nitro Vordex]

Not to mention many other things that I'm not gonna say here, because I know I'll get responses like (ohh your just reading from a talk show) or some other BS. Instead, I will direct you to ask a Cuban how their country's health system is, since it's also universal healthcare.

*BTW all of my posts on the topic was from my OWN thinking of it. I don't need some conservative talk show host to tell me what I already know myself*
lolCuba

I actually forgot what I was gonna say.

*space reserved*

[Alamar]

Well I have insurance and the fee just to walk into an Emergency room is $150.00 then my insurance covers 80% of the treatment bill but only if I met my deductible for the year of $400.00
So with that said I hope it does but..........

[Squirrel3D]

I have to ask this - Have you at any point read any part of the proposed healthcare bills? I'm not crazy - I know I haven't read everything nor have most people, but I'd hope that most of us are somewhat informed on the topic. My major issue is that most of what you've referred to so far is hearsay and anecdotal at best.


After reading that part 3, maybe 4 times.....I'm not answering your question. How can you ask me that when you said yourself that you haven't read everything!!??

No this is what I have to deal with....people like you pulling a two-faced approch on important political topics. That's why I didn't quote the rest of your post.


No don't respond. I won't see yours or any other reply to this because I'm through FOR GOOD posting in this section of the forums.

[SStrikerR]

After reading that part 3, maybe 4 times.....I'm not answering your question. How can you ask me that when you said yourself that you haven't read everything!!??

No this is what I have to deal with....people like you pulling a two-faced approch on important political topics. That's why I didn't quote the rest of your post.


No don't respond. I won't see yours or any other reply to this because I'm through FOR GOOD posting in this section of the forums.
If you don't listen to a post Outrider makes, then I don't know who the hell you're gonna wait for to answer. Jesus?

[Outrider]

After reading that part 3, maybe 4 times.....I'm not answering your question. How can you ask me that when you said yourself that you haven't read everything!!??

Because I'm concerned you haven't read any of it. You still haven't answered my question, which leads me to believe that no, no you haven't.

I'm openly admitting that I'm ignorant to the specific language. However, I also know enough to be able to pick out what's fact and what's fiction. You're having trouble with that - and I think the fact that you're speaking in vague, broad strokes shows that you're not speaking from firsthand knowledge.

I'm being honest with you - try it on for size and then you can get back to me. I'll be waiting.

[DreXxiN]

Well I have insurance and the fee just to walk into an Emergency room is $150.00 then my insurance covers 80% of the treatment bill but only if I met my deductible for the year of $400.00
So with that said I hope it does but..........

Ouch, $150, eh? Did it go up?

And woah, 400 dollar downpayment. What happened?

Best of luck, man.

[astuarlen]

After reading that part 3, maybe 4 times.....I'm not answering your question. How can you ask me that when you said yourself that you haven't read everything!!??

No this is what I have to deal with....people like you pulling a two-faced approch on important political topics. That's why I didn't quote the rest of your post.


No don't respond. I won't see yours or any other reply to this because I'm through FOR GOOD posting in this section of the forums.

Just leaving this here (http://www.onthemedia.org/transcripts/2009/09/11/02) for anyone else who comes strolling in here with that line of unreasoning. Not that I expect such an individual to have time to listen; they're too busy "reading the bill".

[Alamar]

Thx. As you can probably guess I never use the Emergency room to expensive even with "Insurance." Any way back to the topic..... Keep us updated I am interested to know what happens.

[CrimsomWolf]

After reading that part 3, maybe 4 times.....I'm not answering your question. How can you ask me that when you said yourself that you haven't read everything!!??

No this is what I have to deal with....people like you pulling a two-faced approch on important political topics. That's why I didn't quote the rest of your post.


No don't respond. I won't see yours or any other reply to this because I'm through FOR GOOD posting in this section of the forums.


Yes, and you're an *expert* on this huh?
At least he's honest.

You can't eliminate the so-called BS in american healthcare system... because no-one created a perfect system. If that was so, communism would actually work.

The people who argue that public healthcare is always crap and that it is "communistic" make me want to cry and laugh at the same time. No it's not. That Cuban health-care is crap is because their economy, politics and so on are crap. The same goes for whole of Eastern Block. It's not the idea, it's the execution. Also, Red Scare ended in 1957. Thnx.

That aside, remeber your words when you will be bleeding to death and doc at ER will say "...Sorry, we can't treat you because you don't have a proper insurance/money/ect."

The best would be a system where there would be state-sponsored clinics alongside private ones. At least, then, you would have a choice. How to die

Plus, there will always be a (rather large) group of people that won't be able to afford all those excuberant doctor fees in clinics. What should they do hmm? Go off to die? Because they don't have the money?

Only a rich, dumbfuck form Suburbia could invent this, I swear.

[Delete]

Sorry to hear that happened to ya, my brother has terrible Asthma as well but he never goes to the ER because of the same reasons.

[hyperacute]

Then go move there if you like it so much.

Did you get lost on the way to Conservapedia? :wacko:

[War_Child]

Since there seems to be so much talk about non-US health care systems here, let me tell you how my trip to the ER went just a few months ago. I am Canadian.

1) Go to the nurse admitting people to the ER. Hand her my health card. The health card I get by being a Canadian citizen. Instead of my bank card. Instead of a credit card. Instead of the monetary contents of my wallet. She uses it to get the information and hands it back.

2) Wait until the higher priority patients (near heart attacks, can't breathe, etc) have been seen. Since there were many people in worse shape than I, this took a bit. If I was in a serious situation, I would have been seen quite quickly, as is the experience of others I know who have needed the ER.

Shock and awe, eh? I mean the guy who actually NEEDS it being seen before the lesser ill guy with some cash! What a concept!

3) Get seen by a very professional doctor. Not some "less reliable" schmo Americans seem so afraid of.

4) Have tests done by very friendly and knowledgeable staff.

5) Diagnosis!

6) Go home.

7) Not have to worry about gargantuan bills. Not worry about going into debt for the sake of living.

While on a day to day basis we Canadians pay more in taxes, it sure as hell makes up for it when shit goes down. It's a very nice feeling waking up and not having to wonder "can I afford to live today?"

[DreXxiN]

Since there seems to be so much talk about non-US health care systems here, let me tell you how my trip to the ER went just a few months ago. I am Canadian.

1) Go to the nurse admitting people to the ER. Hand her my health card. The health card I get by being a Canadian citizen. Instead of my bank card. Instead of a credit card. Instead of the monetary contents of my wallet. She uses it to get the information and hands it back.

2) Wait until the higher priority patients (near heart attacks, can't breathe, etc) have been seen. Since there were many people in worse shape than I, this took a bit. If I was in a serious situation, I would have been seen quite quickly, as is the experience of others I know who have needed the ER.

Shock and awe, eh? I mean the guy who actually NEEDS it being seen before the lesser ill guy with some cash! What a concept!

3) Get seen by a very professional doctor. Not some "less reliable" schmo Americans seem so afraid of.

4) Have tests done by very friendly and knowledgeable staff.

5) Diagnosis!

6) Go home.

7) Not have to worry about gargantuan bills. Not worry about going into debt for the sake of living.

While on a day to day basis we Canadians pay more in taxes, it sure as hell makes up for it when shit goes down. It's a very nice feeling waking up and not having to wonder "can I afford to live today?"

That sounds awesome, I hate you.

[HAYABUSA-FMW-]

Heh, but of Free Health care (after its paid in full part of taxes being somewhat higher)

And ranked along with the European countries, Canada was 23rd. Austria on top.
In regards to some sort of system of ranking, forgot the terms. Canada still high in prevention of fatal diseases, up there with the rest.

But this was some quick last year internet grab info to report 5 mins(more like 2) to Economy 2 class and postulate a quick attention grabber, Canada does have free health care but they aren't ranked so high, says internet source that I hope is credible enough for ya! As our teach said before, higher taxes if you would like that - no free lunch. That does sound amazing his experience though. Knew the 'those with more urgent conditions go first' part, simple checkup may take a while.


HIGHER TAXES?! Grab your coat of arms and load your coat arms.

Can't even handle a discussion, get angry and leave rather than discuss? For everyone's benefit, even your anger problem if its real and not huffing and puffing, angry internet guy +1 to the rest.

[Volcompat321]

I don't know about you guys, but I get full everything medical, uh, decent vision(not that I use it) and very good-decent dental(use it once or twice a year).
I'm an American citizen.
I pay $22 every two weeks.
Very affordable.
Health First is a great health insurance company.
If you don't have any dependents, it's very cheap. (as you can see, $44 a month).
Though, if you have anyone else on your insurance it's very expensive.

My views over the last 6 months or so have changed for the health care system.
I'm not very educated in the details, but I will say my $44 a month gets put to good use, and I'd say it's a damn good deal.
DreX, if it's available, and you can afford it, you should get Health First. (My health is separate company from dental and vision, so it should be cheaper than $22 bi-weekly for just health).
On top of the great health insurance, you get a FREE gym mebership to any Health First Fitness Centers!

[War_Child]

Heh, but of Free Health care (after its paid in full part of taxes being somewhat higher)

And ranked along with the European countries, Canada was 23rd. Austria on top.
In regards to some sort of system of ranking, forgot the terms. Canada still high in prevention of fatal diseases, up there with the rest.

But this was some quick last year internet grab info to report 5 mins(more like 2) to Economy 2 class and postulate a quick attention grabber, Canada does have free health care but they aren't ranked so high, says internet source that I hope is credible enough for ya! As our teach said before, higher taxes if you would like that - no free lunch. That does sound amazing his experience though. Knew the 'those with more urgent conditions go first' part, simple checkup may take a while.


HIGHER TAXES?! Grab your coat of arms and load your coat arms.

Is there room for improvement in our system? Certainly. There always is. The reason for the "low" ranking is:

"Canada ranked 7th in overall health-system achievement and 10th in terms of health spending, but fell to 30th when these 2 measures were combined because the methodology considers what could be achieved in a country given the level of resources available." (see http://www.cmaj.ca/cgi/content/full/164/1/84-a)

7th and 10th out of 191 ain't bad :) but again, room for improvement but I'll admit our politicians are too busy in a circle jerk to pay as much attention as they should.

But of course the paying comes on a day to day basis. Personally I don't mind paying a few extra cents on my burger so that I don't have to take out a massive loan for surgery. Most people can handle the day costing a couple of bucks more rather than a giant bill all at once like our poor OP here.

Also know what's awesome? If I become unemployed, I don't lose my health care! Unlike the American system, if you lose your job and can't pay the insurance bill... :3

And public health care DOES NOT turn you away due to pre-existing conditions! Case in point: my family has a history of heart disease amongst other issues. I am currently overweight. But I don't pay any redonkulous fees for crappy coverage since we pool in with our taxes :) Wheras in America..

http://crooksandliars.com/susie-madrak/four-month-old-baby-turned-down-healt
Even babies can't get a break. Those lazy chunkers don't deserve health care since they don't work and all.

And no insurance company is going to cause me to die due to refusing to pay for life saving surgery:
http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,317809,00.html

Suddenly a slightly higher tax rate doesn't look so bad >_>

[Gunslinger-08]

What about those of us who aren't necessarily against the idea of socialize medicine, but worry about how it would succeed in an American setting, given the fact that the US has nearly ten times as many people living within its borders, and given the amount of corporate greed and influence in the government?

How would the switch be in our best interests when the private corporations would likely have a major hand in the new system?

[HAYABUSA-FMW-]

Suddenly a slightly higher tax rate doesn't look so bad >_>
Don't tell that to a Republican't

[War_Child]

What about those of us who aren't necessarily against the idea of socialize medicine, but worry about how it would succeed in an American setting, given the fact that the US has nearly ten times as many people living within its borders, and given the amount of corporate greed and influence in the government?

How would the switch be in our best interests when the private corporations would likely have a major hand in the new system?

Actually it could do corporations and the government well:

1) The American government spends more on health care per person than many countries with public care, yet health care is still ranked lower and millions have no coverage. There could be potential to save money (and definitely the ability to save lives) by raising taxes a bit and switching to a public system that actually covers everyone.

2) It is often cheaper to higher Canadian labour than American labour since Canadian companies don't have to shell out as much for health benefits. By switching to a public system a large burden can be taken off the corporations' shoulders. This would also ease some strain on union labour relationships.

Win/win for the win

[HUnewearl_Meira]

Actually it could do corporations and the government well:

1) The American government spends more on health care per person than many countries with public care, yet health care is still ranked lower and millions have no coverage. There could be potential to save money (and definitely the ability to save lives) by raising taxes a bit and switching to a public system that actually covers everyone.

2) It is often cheaper to higher Canadian labour than American labour since Canadian companies don't have to shell out as much for health benefits. By switching to a public system a large burden can be taken off the corporations' shoulders. This would also ease some strain on union labour relationships.

Win/win for the win

The Federal government of the United States of America has a horrible record of managing this sort of thing, including two previous attempts at Federal medical care packages (Medicare and Medicaid), which are already bleeding money. The Department of Energy was founded in 1977, to lessen our dependence on foreign oil, and since that time, our propensity for using foreign oil has only grown exponentially. Fannie Mae (Federal National Mortgage Association) was founded during the depression, and was such a failure, that in 1970, they had to found Freddie Mac (Federal Home Loan Mortgage Corporation), which covers essentially the same functions, and has also failed miserably. Social Security was also founded during the Great Depression, and by the time my generation starts retiring from the work force, it will be out of money.

Possibly most notoriously, there was a brothel in Nevada, called The Mustang Ranch (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mustang_Ranch), which the Federal government took over after the owners failed to properly handle their taxes. The Mustang Ranch very soon failed. Just exactly how one sees a damned government-sanctioned whore house into economic failure, I will never understand.

So, really. How does a government that can't successfully organize a business as simple as a brothel, manage to take care of an industry as complicated as medicine? Sure, they can try to raise taxes to pay for it, but our current tax rates are already high enough that they've cost jobs. Raising the rates again is more likely to reduce Federal tax gains (by means of further private sector job losses and pay cuts), and increase the strain on low-income households. Simply enough, it's not a solvent option in this country.

Besides all of that, the current arrangement works fairly well: Americans that need surgery but can't afford it, get it done on the cheap in Canada, and well-to-do Canadians that are fed up with surgical waiting lists get it done out of their own pockets in America