Project Needlemouse

[amtalx]

http://farm5.static.flickr.com/4060/4276317763_8cc8af00ef_o.jpg

Oh hell yes.

Sega updated their official blog with a few details on a 2D Sonic game with no side characters. Dare I hope that Sega not totally f*ck this up?

Official Blog (http://blogs.sega.com/sonic/2010/01/15/project-needlemouse-character-countdown-finale-and-concept-art/#more-1003)

[Shadowpawn]

No Tails? Lame.

[Boxblaster]

I never Knuckles nor Tails on that list. So if they're not on there, they couldn't be eliminated. So I bet they'll show up in some way in this game.

[AC9breaker]

http://i281.photobucket.com/albums/kk207/Meicyn/gonkzoom.gif

[Tetsaru]

I just saw this news on 1up.com, and while I'm glad that Sega decided not to make up any more useless characters, the lack of Tails and Knuckles has me a bit worried. Even if they did throw in a bunch of old characters, if it's a 2D game, couldn't they just make each character unique in their abilities?

I don't know how many of you have played (or heard of) Knuckles Chaotix for the 32X (you can Youtube it, dunno why Sega hasn't ever re-released it), but it had 5 characters you could pick, each with different abilities, as well as a partner you could co-op with in 2-player, similar to playing Sonic and Tails simultaneously. I don't see why they couldn't go this route, but as long as it's similar to the old-school Sonic games (and the concept art of the old Crabmeat Badnik robot is promising), I'll be happy. Still, I can't help but be skeptical that Sega will screw something up...

[Randomness]

Its rather interesting that the silhouette is the old school sonic logo, too.

[Nitro Vordex]

inb4 Sonic the Hedgehog Genesis 3d remake.

Sega, please don't screw this up, I'm serious. I followed Sonic until the end of Dreamcast days. Now I'm ashamed to have liked Sonic at all.

Do it right, or don't it at all.

I wonder if there's gonna be any particular explanation in game as why the others aren't around.

[HeartBreak301]

Oh boy, here we go again. I hope this is a good one.

[Boxblaster]

I'll be excited if they and this whole "Eggman" business and start calling him Dr.Robotnik again. I don't care if Eggman is his Japanese name. I didn't grow up in japan, I grew up in the US, where he was always "Dr.Robotnik" (and in my opinion is a better name to boot).

[BahnKnakyu]

Last chance Sega. Last effin' chance.

Don't fuck this one up.

[joefro]

Last chance Sega. Last effin' chance.

Don't fuck this one up.
I'm honestly beyond that. They've had over a decade to make a decent Sonic, yet they still haven't delivered. I don't have high hopes for this game either. If it's good then I'll play it, but I'm really not expecting much.

[Leviathan]

http://pics.fort90.com/forum/sonic_cycle.jpg

I predict this, but if it entertains me then the job is done, even if it turns out to be horrible. :wacko:

[Kent]

http://pics.fort90.com/forum/sonic_cycle.jpg

I predict this, but if it entertains me then the job is done, even if it turns out to be horrible. :wacko:
Being that they pretty much destroyed most of that cycle with the last Sonic game they released, I think it's still possible that they may do a decent job.

Especially since, the lack of Tails and Knuckles on the list of characters "rejected," may mean they're just going back to the character dynamics present in Sonic 3 & Knuckles.

[BahnKnakyu]

They forgot to add to that cycle in step 2 where Sega ADDS useless shit that detracts from the dynamics of the game. (Werehog, Sonic as a knight, etc.)

[Kent]

I defy you to provide an example of how the Werehog actually detracted from the dynamics present in Sonic Unleashed.

[amtalx]

I defy you to provide an example of how the Werehog actually detracted from the dynamics present in Sonic Unleashed.

It wasn't as much fun as the daytime levels.

[Zeek123]

It wasn't as much fun as the daytime levels.

Pretty much this. Plus all the platforming and walking around on rafters was just clunky.

But I wouldn't get my hopes up for this one guys. It's probably just a reboot of a classic Sonic game. Which would honestly be better than what they've been doing. But not original.

[Shadowpawn]

Pretty much this. Plus all the platforming and walking around on rafters was just clunky.

But I wouldn't get my hopes up for this one guys. It's probably just a reboot of a classic Sonic game. Which would honestly be better than what they've been doing. But not original.

That's pretty much what I'm thinking.

[Mysterious-G]

Nintendo is doing remakes all the time - And they are successful.
If Sega pulls off the same for once, they might invest more into a decent game again.
Sonic Rush shows that they still can deliver great 2D Sonics.
I am, at least, glad for the change of direction.

[Zeek123]

Nintendo is doing remakes all the time - And they are successful.
If Sega pulls off the same for once, they might invest more into a decent game again.
Sonic Rush shows that they still can deliver great 2D Sonics.
I am, at least, glad for the change of direction.

And Sega puts out a collection of Genesis games every month or so. A remake is a poor way to get back some former glory.

Plus, don't use Nintendo. It pisses me off that they know their games will make money, so there's no need for innovation. Two toads on Super Mario Bros. Wii? Really?

I'm not trying to start a flame war, it's just that Nintendo isn't the company I want Sega "looking up to"

[Outrider]

I wonder if there's gonna be any particular explanation in game as why the others aren't around.

No, there shouldn't be any sort of explanation. We don't need any story in Sonic games beyond "Dr. Robotnik wants the Chaos Emeralds GO!"


Nintendo is doing remakes all the time - And they are successful.
If Sega pulls off the same for once, they might invest more into a decent game again.
Sonic Rush shows that they still can deliver great 2D Sonics.
I am, at least, glad for the change of direction.

I can only think of a few Nintendo remakes in the past few years. Now Square, on the other hand...

[Nitro Vordex]

No, there shouldn't be any sort of explanation. We don't need any story in Sonic games beyond "Dr. Robotnik wants the Chaos Emeralds GO!"

Well, yeah, but I only say that as if the game where "chronological" (yeah, right). If it is indeed a remake, then, yeah, that would be good.

[amtalx]

I would be satisfied with the side characters all dying in a fire.

[Nitro Vordex]

Robotnik turns them all into badniks.

Oh, and the changes are irreversible.

[SpikeOtacon]

Robotnik turns them all into badniks.

Oh, and the changes are irreversible.

He tried that once in the SatAM cartoon series. You know what that gave us? A texan bunny with a robo arm and a bad attitude. I don't want to see how badly the Sonic game crew would run with that.

[Randomness]

And Sega puts out a collection of Genesis games every month or so. A remake is a poor way to get back some former glory.

Plus, don't use Nintendo. It pisses me off that they know their games will make money, so there's no need for innovation. Two toads on Super Mario Bros. Wii? Really?

I'm not trying to start a flame war, it's just that Nintendo isn't the company I want Sega "looking up to"

Nintendo IS dominating right now. To be fair, its mostly because nobody else really has stuff that appeals to as wide an audience. (Wii Sports/Fit/etc.)

[BahnKnakyu]

Nintendo IS dominating right now. To be fair, its mostly because nobody else really has stuff that appeals to as wide an audience. (Wii Sports/Fit/etc.)

I think what the person you were responding to meant is, it doesn't take much effort to appeal to that larger audience; numbers don't always mean anything to most serious gamers. Modern Warfare 2 sold by the thousands, but is it the best FPS made ever? Probably not.

I think a solid company Sega needs to look up to is Capcom - they're not dominating the way Nintendo is, but they're very rock solid and profitable; they listen to the community and continue to churn out decent to excellent quality titles year by year.

[Zeek123]

I think what the person you were responding to meant is, it doesn't take much effort to appeal to that larger audience; numbers don't always mean anything to most serious gamers.

This! Right here! I know that Nintendo has the gaming industry by the balls, but is that really a good thing? I thought it was back in what, 2007? I think...

Sure there's all this Wii-centric stuff that gives you more plastic or another controller, but it's drowned in mediocrity! The Wii's saturated in the market, which SHOULD be a good thing. But instead everyone's satisfied with Wii Sports or whatever 1st-party title came out.

Nintendo, (like Sega) has all of the resources in the world to do something amazing, but instead decide to give you More Super Mario Bros, and the masses are fine with it! It won platforming game of the year!

I'm not saying it's not a good game, but I am saying that Nintendo had some elbow room to reinvent the 2D Mario formula, and they didn't. And it's selling like crazy.

To quote Outrider, "Numbers =/= Quality" And I agree.

I want to see Sega prove they still have it. Like it was mentioned, Capcom is a wonderful publisher/developer. The fanservice in their games is something other companies should at least take notice of.

Sonic Team has an opportunity here, let's hope they don't eff it up.

[AC9breaker]

I think at the very least Sega definitely has some talent. Bayonneta, Madworld, Valkyria Chronicles, and the upcoming Yakuza 3 are definitely signs of it.

But at the same time people have to realize that quality doesn't equal financial success like meat grind vidoegame production does. Just look at Activision and all their success. An even better example is looking at EA. The EA of old was constantly pumping out shovelware and inferior quality products which they made a killing off of. But the EA of late has been spear heading innovation and quality and what is the end result? Shareholders are contemplating of getting rid of the CEO John Riccitiello, who has been a major advocate for quality over quantity.

Another example, Valkyria Chronicles. A stellar and fresh JRPG. An original IP by Sega. The game received critical acclaims and quickly gained a strong following, however the game sold poorly. So can anyone blame Sega when they pump out shovelware sonic games,Wii titles, Movie games, and handheld titles?


In short I don't think this sonic game will be something that "Core" gamers should get excited about. Sega is company in a very competitive business and will do and say what is needed to grab a piece of the market. Besides sonic has always been border line furry territory. So let's say we all forget about him like that one girl you hooked up with when you where drunk. YOU KNOW the ONE I'm talking about. THAT ONE.

[amtalx]

Well, to be fair, Yakuza 3 is the only one of those titles that's actually developed by a first party Sega developer. Bayonetta, Madworld, and Valkyria Chronicles were all 2nd or 3rd party developers, which basically cements why Sega should only publish titles and never develop them. They pretty much churn out garbage when they have creative control. Although, they somehow managed to botch the job even when all the creative work is done for them. Sega's 1st party was responsible for the abysmal PS3 port of Bayonetta.

Long story short: Sega is good at funding other developers, and should never be allowed to write or modify code under any circumstances.

[Outrider]

Nintendo, (like Sega) has all of the resources in the world to do something amazing, but instead decide to give you More Super Mario Bros, and the masses are fine with it! It won platforming game of the year!

I'm not saying it's not a good game, but I am saying that Nintendo had some elbow room to reinvent the 2D Mario formula, and they didn't. And it's selling like crazy.

To quote Outrider, "Numbers =/= Quality" And I agree.

I want to see Sega prove they still have it. Like it was mentioned, Capcom is a wonderful publisher/developer. The fanservice in their games is something other companies should at least take notice of.

Sonic Team has an opportunity here, let's hope they don't eff it up.

It really seems like you're saying that Nintendo is bad because they're sticking with what has always worked with core gamers, while Sega would be good if they could just recreate what used to please core gamers.


I think at the very least Sega definitely has some talent. Bayonneta, Madworld, Valkyria Chronicles, and the upcoming Yakuza 3 are definitely signs of it.


The funny thing is, of course, that neither Bayonetta nor Madworld were developed by Sega. They were both developed by Platinum.

That being said - I think Sega has shown that they occasionally create some great games. The issue seems to be that their games often have conflicting designs, almost as if they suffer from severe "design by committee" syndrome. Sonic Unleashed is half what people had been asking for for years - classic Sonic gameplay - mashed up with what was popular at the time - Brawler/platformer (with waggle on Wii). The sequel to NiGHTS - a game that was purely about very specific gameplay and trying to achieve high score - became a hodge-podge of mediocre gameplay styles with a layer of poorly-written and unskippable cut scenes on top of it.

There's obviously very little way to know and as a result this is pure conjecture, but I wouldn't be surprised if some of these games turned out the way they did because of upper management or marketing mucking about where they shouldn't be involved.

[Zeek123]

It really seems like you're saying that Nintendo is bad because they're sticking with what has always worked with core gamers, while Sega would be good if they could just recreate what used to please core gamers.

Yeah, pretty much.


There's obviously very little way to know and as a result this is pure conjecture, but I wouldn't be surprised if some of these games turned out the way they did because of upper management or marketing mucking about where they shouldn't be involved.

Agreed.

[Outrider]

Yeah, pretty much.

That doesn't seem hypocritical to you?

It just seems odd to me that one developer would get a pass for sticking to their guns while another wouldn't.

[Zeek123]

Mostly because I don't believe Sega can recreate Sonic in a way that pleases core gamers.

They're already playing the "me too" company by coming out with a 2D game. Might as well hope it copies Nintendo's success with their lack of unwillingness to innovate their franchises.

[Outrider]

Mostly because I don't believe Sega can recreate Sonic in a way that pleases core gamers.

They're already playing the "me too" company by coming out with a 2D game. Might as well hope it copies Nintendo's success with their lack of unwillingness to innovate their franchises.

But Sega has been making 2D Sonic games for years. Even since the last 2D console entry (Sonic Chaotix, I guess?), there have been five or six 2D games released on handhelds, most of which have received fairly positive reviews. Plus, fans have been clamoring for a return to form for the Sonic series for years. If fans are demanding a 2D Sonic game and Sega has a legacy of 2D Sonic games to back them up, how can the fact that a handful of developers have also released 2D updates to other games make them into a "me too" company?

Sega could certainly use some of the critical acclaim that Nintendo has been enjoying with games such as New Super Mario Bros, if not the financial success it's had. While you seem to think that a game that uses the past as a foundation to build upon simply can't show any true innovation, the rest of the gaming world seems to disagree.

And let's be honest here - I don't think anybody is expecting Sega to put out a Sonic version of Mega Man 9. This doesn't sound like it's going to be purely about a return to basics in all respects. It sounds very much like they want to combine the popular gameplay of yesteryear with the modern conventions that we're familiar with today. It's worked very well across several genres and series, and I certainly hope it works well for them as well.

[DayDreamer]

Regardless of whether or not they mess this up isn't a problem really. Yes i am hoping that it wont suck soooo bad [other wise back to play my sega Genesis again] but those really ADDICTED sonic fans will still buy and it will still sell for some unknow reason, i will buy it ithr way though.

[amtalx]

Necrobump...new info...too lazy to make a new topic.

"Project Needlemouse" is Sonic 4. It's going to be 3D graphics played over a 2D plane. It will *not* be a disc-based retail release, to be download only released in episodes. No release date yet.

[Red Ring]

Necrobump...new info...too lazy to make a new topic.

"Project Needlemouse" is Sonic 4. It's going to be 3D graphics played over a 2D plane. It will *not* be a disc-based retail release, to be download only released in episodes. No release date yet.

I'm gonna make a proper new thread.

[Outrider]

I know it's already been said, but I would be shocked if they didn't include Tails and Knuckles at some point (either as DLC or in additional episodes.)

But dear God I hope they don't try to emphasize the story in this game. The way they keep referring to how this continues the story of Sonic & Knuckles makes me think that this is just another example of them simultaneously completely understanding what their fans want while also missing the point entirely.

Which I guess just defines it as a Sonic game from the past ten years.