FO question stuff

[Tizerak]

Ugh could someone with FO-techer experience please tell me that a pure tech FO gets better as they progress, I've read in some posts that pop up that people will say oh FO's do the most damage. I don't know what variety of FO they're refering to but I know of my FOnewearl v.s. my HUcast the HU beats the FO by miles on single target / bosses with multiple hit points ( except the mother's in tower since they only have 1, the HU still does more damage though, but on Octo Razonde wins out ), but on multiple enemies in rooms my FOnewearl CREAMS them because:
1. cast Gimegid
2. throw Bright Sign
3. ???????
4. PROFIT!
compared to my HU that basically has to single target hostiles because ta-da! no beautiful Gimegid to position things unless you get a type of hostile that will clump together on their own, which are few and far between, which is still slower then using Gimegid.

I'm just trying to decide how good a tech FO will be cause its my 3rd slot and im not going to make a RA because 1. I hate gun resist 2. I don't really like the way any of the RA's look (maybe RAmarl/caseal), plus HU's with techs win out cause they get shifta/deband which I feel is superior in function/use to the jellen/zalure of RA's.
So I'm seeing if a. FO-tech is worth it and i.e equivalent damage to my FOnewearl or b. its better damage then my FOnewearl and I can get rid of her (or him) for some gimmick character.

Now a tech question (cause I really only have experience with megid) do the non Ra versions of techs Foie/Barta/Zonde end up hitting multiple targets as the tech level gets higer or do they only hit one target at a time. Because I've noticed with Megid as I have rank 14 now on my FOnewearl, the projectile is darn huge and hits multiple things clustered together I didn't know if it was the same for barta/zonde/foie.

I'm just concerned about this FOnewm because yea he's only level 8 but he's decked out with a max grinded witch broom / 100 mind mag with 4 slots filled with PP regen, tech save, tech level boost, and divine mind, and the techs don't seem to be hitting all that hard and I feel like Han Solo from New Hope in the garbage pit saying "I've got a bad feeling about this".

[Kirukia]

If you're level 8 I'm assuming you're using low level techs. From 1 to 15 it's like a 50% MST boost. You're also lacking the MST from all those level ups, and your shifta won't be as powerful. Just level up more and your techs should be hitting harder. Until you level up more and get higher level techs melee will prove superior.

I also suggest using a wand from the vending machine.
Max grind it and make sure it has magical sign. You can probably hit over 100 for each hit with it. It has a low requirement level as well.
That should help you level up quickly.

And yes, Bright Sign is wonderful.

[Cruciarius]

Don't toss megid or grants at any random hostile. While those work decently in normal and possibly hard, it's not very effective in SH. Learn tech resistances of hostiles.

Their is a reason why force characters are the "expert" class to play. They take more knowledge to use than just hitting/shooting everything over and over.

[FoMarlBorough]

plus if you want to support role, you have more things to juggle: buff, debuff, melee, nuke, inflict status, heal status, and managing to heal all the teammates- all at once!

multitask a go-go.

[rhubarbot]

Forces' tech damage doesn't really start to get good until you get the level 11+ spells. At that point, the range, AoE, and damage %s start edging out even the best weapons and PAs. Granted, no technique except Gimegid and Razonde (hitting a weakness) is going to come close to the damage/PP efficiency that you can get from photon arts like Magical Sign and such, but provided you use the right techniques (targeting enemy weaknesses), you will eventually be able to outdamage pretty much any non-hacking player in the game.

To give some perspective, my 100 FOnewearl has a bit over 1100 MST with my typical setup. When targeting weaknesses, I typically hit for 400ish using Megid, and 300-350 using whatever else. With Compress PA equipped, I can spam the AoE versions of the techs if I wish; everything besides Gimegid and Gibarta takes only about 1 second or so to charge. Now, a really good weapon with a really good PA on a very high-level hunter, also hitting a weakness, might do that kind of DPS also and for much less PP. But the level 15 offensive techs all have enormously long range (basically rifle range) and AoE potential, so on average I can hit more enemies with techniques, hit faster, reposition faster, deal more easily with enemies that move around, etc. etc.

Of course, unlike with PAs, your PP pool gets drained like crazy when you use techs to their full potential. But you can deal with this too. My FOnewearl is set up for PP-use minimization, with a total PP regen of 12 per 5 seconds and a Tech Save 3. I can usually clear a room online using less than half my PP pool. By the end of a typical level, I generally have 3-5 Difluids left. That's an excellent margin of error for if I happen to use a lot of PP in a particular run.

Also, you get absolutely awesome utility as a force. Level 11+ Aljellen/Alzalure are really good spells, hitting a positively huge area and nerfing the enemies into oblivion. Cast Aljellen on a room full of tough creatures like Hildewhatevers, and you can just stand right in front of them and spam techs; they'll almost never hit you (and when they do, it will be for pathetically low damage). Alzalure is like having another Shifta, and it also boosts your accuracy, allowing you to hit those stubbornly evasive small enemies. Both of these spells cast very quickly with Compress PA and take little PP. They also work on bosses, which is awesome, of course.

I will admit, I did not play my force that much until I'd found a lot of good gear (Fuuma Shuriken, PP Recovery 5, Shinobi Suit, Tech Save 3, lots of level 15 techs) using my hunter. Before I got geared up, my force was pretty annoying to play. But once I got the proper setup going and learned which techs to use in which levels, things got a LOT better.

Ok, I shall stop babbling incoherently in a moment. First I shall cover pallette setup. I always keep normal attack, jellen, zalure, shifta, and resta on my pallette, with the last slot reserved for whatever tech hits weaknesses for the majority of monsters in the area I'm in. (This means sacrificing evasion, but I don't really need it with jellen.) For Rioh, Ozette and Paru, this is Foie; for Valley and Ruins, this is Barta; for Plant, it's Zonde, and for Shrine, it's Megid (first half) and Grants (second half). I supplement with my shuriken against small enemies that are susceptible to the heaven element, or against enemies that resist the primary area techniques (Bulbatts, some of the Finjers, the robots in Paru). On bosses, I use either a slicer with celeb and matching percents, or Razonde. Slicer's better for Reyburn, Trinity, and Falz, and Razonde's better for Octo, Chaos/Mobius, and Humilias.

[Kirukia]

I've found Grants is better for Ruins, especially if you're a FOmarl.
Barta is a pain in the ass to aim, and I have an easier time with Grants.
Even looking at resistances, the Grants resistance in Ruins is low EXCEPT for on Bullbatts, which are immune to Barta as well. I suggest PAs for Bullbatts.

[Silvaya]

alzalure doesn't boost ur accuracy, but lowers the EVP of the enemies affected. that means your whole party can hit them easier.

and a FOnewearl gets the highest base MST in the game. why would you make another FO if you already have a good one? i'm sure a FOnewearl can double as a slicer user and tech user with just a switch of a mag and some slot ins.

[SirTopps]

stick with the FO my brother. things get better. wink

[FoMarlBorough]

i found aiming barta(if im actually using it) is easier if you stand directly behind a hunter. the hostiles usually get in front of said hunter to hit it, so you get then together and something between you and the hostiles.

also, use the geography in the stage. those wood piles and tree stumps in rioh are there for a reason.

for magical sign, i affects a pretty big circle around your character so you can use it pretty obliquely. you can use it just at the edge of a mob, and it will fire off somewhat to the 'center' of the mob. when its done you can walk/roll off to the side- drive by style.

for a bigger hostile, go 'off-angle' to a side it cant directly hit you, and use it. it minimizes the chances of you getting hit. and i think is kinda crucial in solo play. magical sign wins out on most pp to dmg ratios, i think.

plus you can be bait for the hunters. that big bad phobos wants to 'HASSAN CHOP!!!' you with his sword, stand in front, back turned to him, and roll at the last second. this lets the hunter wail on him a bit with little fear of him punching. ive got a phobos to swing at me 4 times before it 'lost' interest. thats a lot of free hits for the HU's

just some ramblings.

[leviayurashyguy]

damn lost my post so i have to retype *sigh*

if you don't liek HUcast doing more damage than you, don't Shifta them. they do significantly less damage. FYI: a HUnewm with Shifta 10 and mats does more damage than a HUcast w/ mats but w/o shifta

since you have played through FO already i don't need to tell you that tech damage won't see a significant increase until later levels. but i will state is that FOnewms have higher tech damage than FOnewearls but have crappier heals in exchange.

you need to check out the tech guide as i will not explain every single tech to you. all the RA-techs have AoE capabilities. if you will always compare them to Megid, your FOnewearl will win since she gives 10% higher bonuse than FOnewn. Rafoie does the same in terms of AoE compared to Megid and does more damage outside of bonuses and resist but it has a charge. relatively fast too

in terms of raw damage, shifta>zalure but to classes that have very little ATA (such as a FOnewm) zalure is helpful but Rangers already have all the ATA they'll ever need so its pointless

speaking of Ranger techs, any class that uses techs outside of HUnewys and FO's sux. sure Hunters can shifta/deband but its completely inferior to FO's and its strictly there for convenience sake.

and Rangers aren't bad, they just overshadowed by alot of the classes. kinda liek how HUcast overshadowed pretty much every class as long as they have access to Shifta 15. enemies have "ranged" resists but also they have melee resist. you ever been on wetlands or rioh? FYI its ranged resist and not gun resist, if it resists a mech gun then it will resist a slicer.

also Rangers DO get access to melee. common amongst all Rangers are the Spear, Gunblade, and Saber

[Tizerak]

Holy crap lots of response uhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh GO!

@ Kiru: this sounds hopeful, must level more!

@ Cruc: I keep that hostile resist chart LoiueW posted handy so I learn what's what in each zone I can go "hmm ok this works on this, and this on this!" etc. I don't even like grants unless its the dark hostiles in shrine same with megid I only really use it as Megid on white shrine hostiles and all the time I use Gimegid not for the damage but for the positioning.

@Rhubarbot: More promising down the line info! Yeah I like Shifta/Zalure the best. For palette setup ugh I've been avoiding removing barrel roll from the hotkeys on this FO but I guess I'll have to, to include that extra damage tech :/

@Silvaya: I wanted to use techs! newearl only gets boosted Megid I wanted to try the newm boost to Eeeeeeverything, to really do the tech thing as opposed to my slicernewearl and HUcast that PA/attack stuff. Newearl only beats Newm MST by 9 p_p. I don't like switching gear around alot.

@KingTopps: Oh I am! I'm just mainly doing this to see which FO I want to keep.

@Borough: Mmmmm ramblings. Yeah I guess I'll see how like barta/foie/zonde work at higher levels, I guess barta hits everything in a line? Idk about Rabarta though. Bleh magic sign looks silly -_-

@Levia: don't you hate that! don't shifta teamates! that sounds mean :O, I never really use techs on my newearl besides Gimegid, which I use to pile everything up then Bright sign them so I never really noticed tech damage progression ._. well I read the tech guide but it doesn't tell me everything I needed to know like = will Foie always only hit one hostile even at later levels? (same question for barta/zonde) I knew Rafoie/zonde hit multiple stuff but what about Rabarta? it seems like the shards only hit the next target if the first one you were hitting dies. For rangers, yeah they can use like Clair Doubles but the only sword they can use is Hocho which can't even get celeb, and more things have higher gun resist then melee except a few things and even then its not that bad for melee the only things I noticed killing my melee damage were the seals in wetlands and Rohjade/crysta in ruins. I call it gun resist because as someone told me and I tested it out for myself, to my surprise Slicer counts as melee damage.

[leviayurashyguy]

Foie and Zonde only hit a single target, regardless of level. level only increase damage, range, and PP cost of all techs.

Barta as you can tell from its hefty PP cost, hits multiple targets in a straight line.
Rabarta is kinda different. you send out shards, liek 10 of them, but sometimes (most of the time) between 0-2 actually hit anything. so you charge a tech and use 20 more PP only to do 100% you MST value

and the only sword ANYONE can use thats not a Hunter is the hocho, prolly cuz swords are OP *cough*

[Tizerak]

Hmm gotcha
Over end isn't OP! nawwwwwwwww *coughs*

[Kirukia]

Thats why I prefer grants for ruins. Rabarta is a horrendous spell. I'll aim directly at enemies and still not hit anything :/ I'm a FOmarl though so I get a boost out of it, so it's pretty much just as strong as, if not stronger than barta when I use it.

Also my force doesn't use dodge/barrel/evasion roll. Even for Humilias xD
I just put on ice/slow protect and walk to him lol. Even if he hits me I can just heal.
Who needs dodging when you can just heal all the damage? The only time I can imagine putting it into your palette is for Arkzein, especially on SH. They will pretty much 1 hit you if your level isn't too high, or if you're high in tower.

[FoMarlBorough]

[QUOTE=Tizerak;2437409]
@Borough: Mmmmm ramblings. Yeah I guess I'll see how like barta/foie/zonde work at higher levels, I guess barta hits everything in a line? Idk about Rabarta though. Bleh magic sign looks silly -_-

i dont use rabarta much either. let alone barta. but it gets the idea across.

foie: pretty straight forward, remember it can burn. burn can help alot on the mothers in the tower as well as other 'big' hostiles. burning booma origins reminds be of bbq pork...yum!

Rafoie: KABOOMMM! plus it seems to charge quickly if you stay locked onto one target. " it tastes like...burning, ohhh..."- Ralph Wiggum

zonde: quick and stuns, usually good vs machines. generally good overall.

razonde: chain lightning, chain stun, need i say more?

grantz: the fomarl special, good base dmg, also confuses, which not all that usefull, can work vs mobs. ive seen confused enemies attack each other, just not very often. hits multi opponenets.

gigrantz: dont use much, dont know why.

megid: the other foie, poisons. burn+poison=win vs mothers and those giant overgrown pillbugs in the ruins. hits multi opponents as well.

gimegid: situational, good on a mob or a big hostile, hits many times. i think im missing something about it though.

magical sign: looks goofy, but delivers the goods pronto. that accuracy boost is good for when you just enter sh. plus i like goofy things so...
tactically its a win. visually 'its like a party in my mouth'- name that reference and get 10 points.

rodeo drive is ok, but magical sign is just, well, magical. many decent hits and lvl 3 slow...Great Success!! add that with a nice element on your wand and spread the statuses like banks spread debt.

like my gf says, "The Money says..." the money says magical sign is where its at, but if walking up invisible steps to launch a lightning ball(?) isnt your thing, there are some other decent pa's. let us not forget, let us not forget...style counts too.

enough rambling again

[Silvaya]

seriously though, the 15% that FOnewm get across the board doesn't really matter much because most of the time it's just zonde and foie and megid spam. and the additional damage really isn't that noticeable. but if u want to spend another 100+ hours making a high lvled char, be my guest