Really weird Ghost glitch

[majorgamer55]

I was doing a run with my cousin at Arca plant when this happened:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1d39XiknOd8


There are two parts to this, here's vid number two:


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=q4vyBOOkWfA&feature=channel

Has anyone else experienced this?

[Ice Sniper]

After about 2 seconds I can see this is what people described happens to hackers(from what ive heard not what ive seen myself)

[Astropuyo]

Yar it happens. Most vids I've ever seen this from deaths happen near gates

[majorgamer55]

Ice:
What is it that you mean?

[Ice Sniper]

I mean this kind of thing happens to hackers a lot, they appear dead but can still move etc. This is not based on my personal experience so im not pointing any fingers, this is just what I've heard.

[The_Pup]

It's probably due to lag or a desync.

Met another player over freeplay and she went through a wall in shrine when attacking an enemy, however she never went through any other walls.

Another player with horrible lag was warping all over the place and disappearing. We fought through the first room of Rioh, and completed it... The gate wouldn't open to the next >.>;

[Zike]

I had this happen to me while changing wepaons during Dark falz although I could not move my dead toon just stood there, my group mates could not resta me, my wapon wouldn't swing either

[SneakySneaky]

I start to get dizzy on looking at you video... Isn't it a bug? Although i have never seen it on people even myself. Did you use infinity hp or some cheats during gaming?

[zeital]

this happened to me as well but the dude i was playing with was running through walls and stuff and he did that die, hit hit, PA thingy, i guess we was hax tho cuz of the wall thing

[Opodomus]

What is it that you mean?

That sounds like French translated word for word

[kenaniah]

Like how did he/she die ?

[majorgamer55]

No cheats or hacks were used of any kind, if you see the second video I show both of the DS and neither have an action replay in then, just the game...
I have like less than .. 500 hp on that character I believe... I don't think it was a lag or desync because my cousin and I seriously sat next to each other playing... whatever it is, I find it awesome but really weird at the same time.

[GantzDetainee]

Oh right so you're expecting us to believe thats a glitch?Imma believe you if you show whats on the back of BOTH of those Ds.

[Astropuyo]

I've had that glitch happen from a friend on my list last night.

We were in Arca and he died ....next a a gate!
And bam we had a merry wtf time. This can be repeated I just don't know the exact cause.

[GantzDetainee]

^dont easily assume its a glitch and come on look at the second vid,clearly hes just showing off the back of one of those DS not the one with the Fonewearl char on it.

[Astropuyo]

I agree there is always a chance but I am saying I've had this happen to me with good friends and hell some friends I know are completely unable to use any hack technology.
(They are that tech illiterates, yes even simple AR can defy them)

At the end of the day , we'll never know 100%. However given the way dude was holding his DS I doubt there is any tech back there that isn't stock.

But then again I could be absolutely behind the times and tech could of gotten alot smaller over the last 7-9 months.

[majorgamer55]

^dont easily assume its a glitch and come on look at the second vid,clearly hes just showing off the back of one of those DS not the one with the Fonewearl char on it.

FFS! I'm sorry but how much of a troll can you be? I said it twice already, now for a third time, look in the second video....First of all I show B O T H of the DS's.
From 1:10 - 1:20 I put up each of the DS's and N E I T H E R have an AR.
Honestly, all I'm showing is really weird glitch that happened, if I was trying to do it purposely I would've recorded the whole run and how to do it, but I did NOT know this was going to happen. I simply show an event that happened while doing a run, if you want to continue talking about how it's hacked or AR go ahead, but I simply won't even care to reply to it. :)

[The_Pup]

Well, I can probably theorize why it happen based on how the networking is set up.

Usual achitecture for games is a Client-Server relationship. Clients connect to a server. The client sends things to the server, the server interprets and then sends back data to all clients. The server ensures all clients are on the same level. This is not how PS0 does things.

PS0 probably uses a Peer-to-peer (or Client-Client) relationship. Multiplayer games are basically played like single player. Other players are dummies (NPCs) that receive commands from other clients. Your client sends commands about your character to control dummies on other clients. There is no central server to keep things syncronized with each other.

However, Sega probably coded enemies rigidly and values are rough/simple (ie: always fire missile when nearest character is X meters away; missile turn to character by X degrees) and that they always do the same thing when given the same values. Sega left all or most of the enemy AI to the clients. Dummy NPCs stats are probably also left to the clients and are only given stats on creation (and added to when a player levels up). This was to save on bandwidth and works very well.

When a player does something, the client sends what they did to the other players (ie: "Used Foie Level X," "Facing X direction moving at Y speed," "Leveled up," "Used EVA mat," "Fed Mag X* item of <type>," "Attacking Enemy X"). There may also be periodic "heartbeats" or status updates on player HP, status and position sent by the client to others.

The combination of enemy AI being controlled by the individual clients and the players you see being Dummy NPCs whom are controlled by players on other clients would explain why you would see enemies being attacked from across the map by mele characters (the common desync).

What would happen in this instance: If a player does something precisely (ie: dodge a Ark missile last second) that might not be sent over to the other clients in time causing a slight desync with dummy NPCs (ie: the dummy NPC on the other client will be hit). Another example would be the AI doing something different on other players' clients (Ark on your DS charges towards a Dummy NPC/other player on your client, while Ark on another player's client charges towards your Dummy NPC. One or both of your Dummy NPCs may die from the attacks). The player would be alive on his client, but the Dummy NPCs on other clients may be killed/damaged. The other player can send commands such as attack and the dummy on other clients will be dead but will perform those commands.

Sega probably didn't make a heartbeat update for player alive/dead status due to a design oversight.

Summary:
-PS0 is Peer-to-peer (Client-Client) networked
-Your client (DS) sends commands to other clients which control Dummy NPC(s).
-Enemy AI is barely syncronized, it may not be syncronized at all. Instead it may act differently on different DSs.
-A turn of events happend which caused the Dummy NPC(s) of your character on other clients to die, where your character successfully lived through it.
-Lag can desyncronize clients and delay commands ending up in Dummy NPCs walking through walls.
-Dead Dummy NPC receives commands from still living character. Hilarity ensues.

Test:
If this happens again, could you have the player who is ghosting die on his/her console then revive him/her? I expect that s/he will be acting like normal afterwards.

[GantzDetainee]

This is not a glitch.If you want to see this kind of thing,go play free play some more or google it yourself about Ar codes.seriously some people....And oh yeah your sleight of hands on that second vid...not convincing.

[The_Pup]

This is not a glitch.If you want to see this kind of thing,go play free play some more or google it yourself about Ar codes.seriously some people....And oh yeah your sleight of hands on that second vid...not convincing.

Slight of hand? He put each up to the camera and you can see it close up. One DS has lights on the front left.

Also, you can recreate bugs with AR on command. That does not mean that they can't happen. I'm more convinced that it's a bug caused by desync.

EDIT: Also possibly related bug: http://www.pso-world.com/forums/showthread.php?t=173861

[majorgamer55]

Slight of hand? He put each up to the camera and you can see it close up. One DS has lights on the front left.

Also, you can recreate bugs with AR on command. That does not mean that they can't happen. I'm more convinced that it's a bug caused by desync.

EDIT: Also possibly related bug: http://www.pso-world.com/forums/showthread.php?t=173861

I read your entire post before this one *the really long one* and I never have read so much about something that makes so much sense to me. Now that I think of it, while on free play i've seen people go through walls but according to them they don't... nonetheless, I thank you for posting all that information because it helps certain people think twice about flaming others about hacks. And also thank you very much for pointing that I put each DS which were different up to the camera......
P.S. May I know how you know so much about the game mechanics, meaning all the desyncing and so forth? :D

[The_Pup]

P.S. May I know how you know so much about the game mechanics, meaning all the desyncing and so forth? :D
I pull experiences from other games. If you learn how networking works in one game, you could apply it to other games with the major differences being in scale and implementation. Reading up on how things are done in games also helps.

Cube is what struck me the most as being similar to PS0 because online play generally was smooth. Lesser would be Gunz Online where the desync would mean I had to lead players by ping, but the gameplay would be smooth nonetheless, however it probably shares the most similar networking to PS0.

http://cubeengine.com/docs/game.html <- Read end section about network code.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fat_client <- The important term used in that section.

A big clue is that you don't see other players picking stuff up because every player gets their own loot (fairness factor and reducing bandwidth, however I think sega wished for the former and also got the latter). The game isn't "action heavy" like Quake or Metroid Prime: Hunters, where it's more likely to use the Server-Client networking because collecting items off the map will impact other players (the devs wouldn't want two players collecting the same powerups). If loot wasn't shared like in a MMORPG where items drop on the ground (first come, first serve), then the game would more than likely be considered client-server because the client is asking for who got the loot first and the server renders the final decision (however PSO is also a client-heavy game, but the server determines who picks up loot).

A minor clue is that people can walk through walls and do hacks. In client-server games, the server sets what can and cannot be done (hacks are things the server doesn't dictate, wallhacks can be prevented by the server if coded in). Client-client games don't have a dictator, just a bunch of people running around hopefully doing everything correctly, if the client is hacked then the other clients just assume it's normal behavior (as their primary responsibility is for themselves).

[GantzDetainee]

I read your entire post before this one *the really long one* and I never have read so much about something that makes so much sense to me. Now that I think of it, while on free play i've seen people go through walls but according to them they don't... nonetheless, I thank you for posting all that information because it helps certain people think twice about flaming others about hacks. And also thank you very much for pointing that I put each DS which were different up to the camera......
P.S. May I know how you know so much about the game mechanics, meaning all the desyncing and so forth? :D

Or he could just have switch the second Ds with another one while he's so focus on showing off the first one.Its so easy to orchestrate such kind of hoax really.And if this is a really legit glitch he wouldn't mind telling us how he triggered it in the first place so that people here can replicate it and see it for themselves.

[mid Knight]

Oh geez come on I really doubt he would switch it since after all the screens still show it the same area and glitch in the second video.

[GantzDetainee]

I'm just saying its really plausible that 3 or 4 ds have been use in this video and frankly after he showed the back of the second ds he just cut the video,he didn't even bother to do those stuff that he's been doing on the first video.Well if he have proven that this is a legit glitch kudos to him and I owe him a big apology but I really dont easily believe stuff like this on the internet unless they have concrete proof and data to back em up.

[majorgamer55]

I'm just saying its really plausible that 3 or 4 ds have been use in this video and frankly after he showed the back of the second ds he just cut the video,he didn't even bother to do those stuff that he's been doing on the first video.Well if he have proven that this is a legit glitch kudos to him and I owe him a big apology but I really dont easily believe stuff like this on the internet unless they have concrete proof and data to back em up.

I clearly show two screens, one from a DS LITE! another from a DSi! The lights even show from each one, if you can't notice it then you really must be blind. I can't tell you how to do the glitch because I myself don't know how to do it! IT just happened... all i recall was running from a missile, my partner fighting, me fall and stand up again with a red screen. What do you want me to bring out? A chemical formula? Mathematical equations and estimates on angles ingame? I don't need for you or any other people who doubt to believe me as long as I know what happened. I didn't make this post for people to believe me but so I may share my game experiences that occur to me, and in this case a really weird glitch.