Monster Hunter Tri Wii US - No Online Fees

[ChronoTrigga]

F e b r u a r y 2 4 , 2 0 1 0

W i i

- Nintendo announced they will be publishing Capcom's Monster Hunter Tri for Wii in North America on April 20, for US$59.99, the game will not have online fee. GameStop will also offer a demo disc and 500 Wii Points on March 8 for those who pre-order the game.

Sweetness.

[Evicous]

No online fee, a demo disc, and 500 Wii Points? AWESOME

This and Cave Story Wii coming out just made my decade.

[Outrider]

No online fee, a demo disc, and 500 Wii Points? AWESOME

This and Cave Story Wii coming out just made my decade.

I think they announced the Classic Controller Pro + Monster Hunter bundle for the US, as well.

I was only curious about this game before, but that sounds like too good of a deal to pass up to give this thing a try.

[Volcompat321]

So you pretty much get to pre-order the game for free!

This is amazing news.
Not too big of a complaint, but....$59.99? :o
Aren't the rest of the Wii games $49.99?
So worth the extra $10 though.

[Boxblaster]

$60 gets you the game, as well as the new classic controller in a bundle. The controller by itself is $20, so it's even more of a bargain. I'm considering finally getting a Wii just for this game (and some of the back catalog of Wii games). I'm very excited for this release, since I feel I'm too late in the game for MHF:U. So this will also basically be my first major Monster Hunter experience.

[Volcompat321]

$60 gets you the game, as well as the new classic controller in a bundle. The controller by itself is $20, so it's even more of a bargain. I'm considering finally getting a Wii just for this game (and some of the back catalog of Wii games). I'm very excited for this release, since I feel I'm too late in the game for MHF:U. So this will also basically be my first major Monster Hunter experience.

Oooh, okay, that's the bundle one.
Well, that's still a decent price for the game.
If need be, and I had the money, I'd pay $100 for it, no doubt.

It's such an amazing series.
If I get enough money, I am tempted to buy my own Wii, because the one I have now is the families Wii.

It's in the living room, which isn't the best place because there are almost always people out there.
Good thing though, I'm up at night, so no one is out there when I'm up. :D

I'm super excited. So excited, I might piss myself! (jkjk) :wacko:

[Randomness]

If I get enough money, I am tempted to buy my own Wii, because the one I have now is the families Wii.


I'm in the same boat. Living on campus, Wii at home. Might have to get one for myself.

[Volcompat321]

I'm in the same boat. Living on campus, Wii at home. Might have to get one for myself.

Yea, I hate having to play in the living room.
I don't like sitting too far away from the TV, but not too close.
Our couches are really far away.
I have my glasses, but I don't like wearing them. >_>

At least if I play in my room, I can sit on my chair or bed, and play. :D

[joefro]

I have a few buddies who are getting this so I'll probably break down and get it. The free online definitely is a plus, but I really hate messing with online Wii games. It would be awesome if this game were on PS3 or Xbox. I know they announced a MH for Xbox and PS3 maybe but you have to pay to play it. :(

[Google]

I've only heard of this game on this site. It looks good.

[Outrider]

Also, the game uses the Wii Speak microphone, which would be nice if I actually had one.

(Then again, the new Endless Ocean is bundled with the microphone for $30, the same cost as the device on it's own. The game's gotten good reviews, too. Hmm.)

[Vanzazikon]

Awesome, they've announced that there will be no online fees. The demo release and 500 wii points are also fantastic news. I'm definitely pre-ordering.

[HAYABUSA-FMW-]

Freedom Unite PSP demo was okay, but a bit tough on the hands, didn't get into that one.

Might consider this, with new controller that is more ergonomic - and for several other Wii titles/Virtual Console games.

Desync via non-wired Internet standard hopefully is better than your fave PSO desyncs (Damage cancel in Cmode, stop that pea shooter, Ranger) and now handheld ones.

[Dragwind]

Sounds cool, but Nintendo online limitations worries me. I've played a bunch of games on it, a few of them "hardcore" for a while, but after some time it gets really annoying needing to use sites to meet new people in order to use voice or text chat...not to mention the friend code system. Don't get me wrong, I've been a Nintendo fan my whole life but I can't stand this system they have in place. I guess Capcom understands this from what I've read.

The game looks beautiful and seems like a fun time if you got a couple of buddies to play it often with.

[RAcast Extremist]

Really looking forward to Monster Hunter Tri. :D

[AzureBlaze]

I've never tried any of the MH series, but I keep hearing it's good. But, I have a question for anyone who HAS:

HOW are they able to have no fee?

Does the game just never update? Is it loaded with hax? Is everything unlocked from the beginning always and they just basically say 'buy this!' and then turn everybody loose on ALL the content? (and then you get 0 new things till they pub another game) Does it break down a lot/like PSU did?

I'm really curious about how they intend to pull off a large online game without a fee or a cash shop or w/e. I know DCPSO did it, but that was a hive of corruption in about 3 weeks, and it stayed that way its whole life.

I saw the trailer for this on wii channel and it looks well made/fun/interesting/worth it etc. but this has me curious.

[Volcompat321]

I've never tried any of the MH series, but I keep hearing it's good. But, I have a question for anyone who HAS:

HOW are they able to have no fee?

Does the game just never update? Is it loaded with hax? Is everything unlocked from the beginning always and they just basically say 'buy this!' and then turn everybody loose on ALL the content? (and then you get 0 new things till they pub another game) Does it break down a lot/like PSU did?

I'm really curious about how they intend to pull off a large online game without a fee or a cash shop or w/e. I know DCPSO did it, but that was a hive of corruption in about 3 weeks, and it stayed that way its whole life.

I saw the trailer for this on wii channel and it looks well made/fun/interesting/worth it etc. but this has me curious.

Monster Hunter has always been one of the best selling PSP games.
There's no need to update the game, everything is with the disc (at least it is in older MH games).
PSP is more hacked than the Wii one, which I assume people could hack.
Though if you play with your friends, you can control who you play with and whatnot.
You have to progressively play to make everything, but everything is available from the beginning of the game.
You have to play to get the good stuff.
No need for Cash Shop, because everything is in the game!

[Zarode]

Sounds cool, but Nintendo online limitations worries me. I've played a bunch of games on it, a few of them "hardcore" for a while, but after some time it gets really annoying needing to use sites to meet new people in order to use voice or text chat...not to mention the friend code system. Don't get me wrong, I've been a Nintendo fan my whole life but I can't stand this system they have in place. I guess Capcom understands this from what I've read.

The game looks beautiful and seems like a fun time if you got a couple of buddies to play it often with.

Capcom is bypassing that. You'll have like a MH ID/name that can be added to a friends list, which is much much shorter then a friend code.

Game is gonna use Wii Speak and any compatible USB Keyboard.

edit: hurr me am canut reed ha. ha. ha. :disapprove:

[Volcompat321]

Capcom is bypassing that. You'll have like a MH ID/name that can be added to a friends list, which is much much shorter then a friend code.

Game is gonna use Wii Speak and any compatible USB Keyboard.

Wii Speak only, or a USB Headset as well?
I'm guessing Wii Speak only, but I'm hopeful.

[Dragwind]

Capcom is bypassing that. You'll have like a MH ID/name that can be added to a friends list, which is much much shorter then a friend code.

Game is gonna use Wii Speak and any compatible USB Keyboard.

edit: hurr me am canut reed ha. ha. ha. :disapprove:

That's awesome. I guess I'll have to dust off my copy of Monster Hunter Freedom before it comes out and get back into the groove. This sounds like a great step forward for Wii.

[Volcompat321]

That's awesome. I guess I'll have to dust off my copy of Monster Hunter Freedom before it comes out and get back into the groove. This sounds like a great step forward for Wii.

If you have a Ps3, I'll be happy to play some Ad-Hoc with ya.

[Zeek123]

What I wanna know is, have they added lock on and strafing to the game yet?

[Volcompat321]

What I wanna know is, have they added lock on and strafing to the game yet?

Never!
Lock on is lame, and strafing would be almost useless in this game.
:p

I think locking on would be pretty cheap, and would actually hurt you in the sense that if you were locked on, and dodge roll'd in the wrong direction (like towards the monster), then you'd get fucked.

Strafing wouldn't be too bad, but then it wouldn't be Monster Hunter.

[Zeek123]

Never!
Lock on is lame, and strafing would be almost useless in this game.
:p

I think locking on would be pretty cheap, and would actually hurt you in the sense that if you were locked on, and dodge roll'd in the wrong direction (like towards the monster), then you'd get fucked.

Strafing wouldn't be too bad, but then it wouldn't be Monster Hunter.

Whateva!

One of the best improvements between PSO and PSU was the lock on!

I get we're hardco' in this bitch, but how about some modern conveniences?!

[RAcast Extremist]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4XvxNCyUGJk

[Volcompat321]

Whateva!

One of the best improvements between PSO and PSU was the lock on!

I get we're hardco' in this bitch, but how about some modern conveniences?!

Nah, trust me, it's better to not lock on.

You can just hit L in the PSP ones to snap the camera behind you, and that's good enough for me.

[CAMPSO]

Definitely lookin forward to this now. I just bought MH Freedom Unite and its great. Hopefully Tri will be just as good

[Zarode]

Whateva!

One of the best improvements between PSO and PSU was the lock on!

I get we're hardco' in this bitch, but how about some modern conveniences?!

You really, really don't want Lock-on in Monster Hunter, considering that each area of a monster's body actually counts towards different damage values and such.

Besides, its not hard to keep the camera where you need it. Game has PSO style camera centering and free camera controls (right stick).

Oh and, word to the wise, don't play Tri if you plan on going back to the PSP versions. It's almost impossible. :( Tri is surprisingly smooth and well animated, graphics are some of the best I've seen to boot. Underwater battles are fun as hell. (I've played the Japanese version at a friend's house) I'm kinda sad to see my favorite weapons are gone though. Hunting Horn, Gunlance, Bow. They out. Luckily, all the weapons have earned a few new attacks in compensation, especially Sword and Shield.

Hell, I got the main game bundle and an extra classic controller pro preordered. Love Monster Hunter.

Classic Controller Pro, if anyone is curious as to how it looks.

http://img41.imageshack.us/img41/3428/8bf8d2083659b1faf59ad02.th.jpg (http://img41.imageshack.us/i/8bf8d2083659b1faf59ad02.jpg/)

[Volcompat321]

Oh and, word to the wise, don't play Tri if you plan on going back to the PSP versions. It's almost impossible. :( Tri is surprisingly smooth and well animated, graphics are some of the best I've seen to boot. Underwater battles are fun as hell. (I've played the Japanese version at a friend's house) I'm kinda sad to see my favorite weapons are gone though. Hunting Horn, Gunlance, Bow. They out. Luckily, all the weapons have earned a few new attacks in compensation, especially Sword and Shield.

Hell, I got the main game bundle and an extra classic controller pro preordered. Love Monster Hunter.

Classic Controller Pro, if anyone is curious as to how it looks.

http://img41.imageshack.us/img41/3428/8bf8d2083659b1faf59ad02.th.jpg (http://img41.imageshack.us/i/8bf8d2083659b1faf59ad02.jpg/)

That controller looks...weird, but a lot more comfortable than the classic.

I am :disapprove: that they took out the twin swords, but I was always a fan of Katanas and sword/shields too.

So at least I have something I can use still.
Of course, I'll at least try the new weps. :D

[Akaimizu]

I think the idea of having camera controls on the right stick, instead of having to Crab-Claw like on the PSP, is a big adjustment. A big adjustment going back to PSP, that is.

Someone was mentioning that there may be some pay-for DLC for the game, to help the costs; and I'm fine with that. A lot of companies on the PC are adopting this method for their MMOs, and PSP2 uses it as well. I think that's a winner combination. When there isn't a monthly cost, people are generally more willing to buy extras, even superficial ones if the cost is right. Paying 6 bucks for some cool-looking gear you store away is a lot easier to swallow than $120 a year minimum cost.

It also entices those who plan to play the game more casually after a while. Or plan to keep playing a lot of other games, in the loop. When costs come into these games, it puts a little pressure on the player to put more time into this game, and not have the time for their other ones.

[Outrider]

That controller looks...weird, but a lot more comfortable than the classic.

Yeah - it's kind of an ugly combination of the Wii Classic Controller (an okay if somewhat awkward controller) with the DualShock (a jack-of-all-trades/master of none accessory that has been stagnant in its mediocrity for years now.)

Though I've heard good things about it, so hopefully it's more comfortable than it looks.

[Kyrith_Ranger_Pso]

wuts duel shock, and does anyone know if monster hunter tri uses wii motion plus?

[lavisblade]

The first thing I thought of when I saw it was a gamecube controller...

[Kyrith_Ranger_Pso]

oh well does it use wii motion sensor at all (i guess gamecube controller would proly be good for this kinda game)

[Zarode]

The game doesn't use Motion Plus, but you can use the Remote+Nunchuck (why, god, why on earth would you do that, why!?!?)

[HAYABUSA-FMW-]

The first thing I thought of when I saw it was a gamecube controller...
And not PS2 / PS3?

But I guess you were sticking with Nintendo only.

SNES with "dual shock" joysticks, and 2 more on top, L and R's!

[Outrider]

wuts duel shock, and does anyone know if monster hunter tri uses wii motion plus?

The DualShock is the Playstation controller with the two analog sticks and built-in rumble.

Monster Hunter Tri doesn't use the Wii MotionPlus.

[lavisblade]

And not PS2 / PS3?

But I guess you were sticking with Nintendo only.

SNES with "dual shock" joysticks, and 2 more on top, L and R's!
Yeah, now that I looked at it, it does look more like PS2/3...but like I said; 'The first thing I thought...'

I grew up on the Gamecube...well, not really...It's just the system I've played the most. I loved it and I still do, though I usually don't play games at all lately...though when I do, it's the XBox 360 ^.^" lol...

[Kyrith_Ranger_Pso]

well i pre-ordered it and got my demo disc but guess wut i pre-ordered it without classic controller and turns out it doesn't support gc controller my question i thot was Y NOT!!!!
(the reason i know is because demo disc doesnt support and i looked it up and some people posted on some website that it only supports wii/nunchuk and classic controller

[ShinAnt]

Oh! Those demos are out already!? Why hasn't my store got them! CURSES!

[Outrider]

Huh - didn't read the details well enough. I didn't realize the demo and 500 wii points are exclusive Gamestop offers.

Unfortunately, I guess that means I'll be going to Gamestop tomorrow at lunch.

[Volcompat321]

Not to go too far off topic here, but when you get the Wii card thing for the 500 points, could you add this to the DSi instead, or are they different points?

Also, I'm assuming you get the points when you actually pay for the full game, but I want to make sure that's the case.

I'll definitely be going to the 12am release for this game. :D

[Zarode]

Pretty sure that the Points card can be used with the DSi.

[Kyrith_Ranger_Pso]

Not to go too far off topic here, but when you get the Wii card thing for the 500 points, could you add this to the DSi instead, or are they different points?

Also, I'm assuming you get the points when you actually pay for the full game, but I want to make sure that's the case.

I'll definitely be going to the 12am release for this game. :D

are they having a midnight release? i didn't think gamestop was

[Volcompat321]

Pretty sure that the Points card can be used with the DSi.

I thought so, but wasn't sure. Thanks!



are they having a midnight release? i didn't think gamestop was

I asked one of the 20 Gamestops around here, and they said yup, they are. :D

EDIT: Called back to make sure. The guy said as of now, they don't know, but most likely.
People and not communicating with their employees....grrr.

[Outrider]

Well, I just reserved this at lunch. Now to just figure out the best way to connect my Wii to the internet from across the apartment.

My Gamestop didn't even know what system the game was for or when I'd be able to pick up the demo disc, so... yeah. Getting excited about this.

[Volcompat321]

Well, I just reserved this at lunch. Now to just figure out the best way to connect my Wii to the internet from across the apartment.

My Gamestop didn't even know what system the game was for or when I'd be able to pick up the demo disc, so... yeah. Getting excited about this.

I drove my friend to get his demo, and they said they didn't have it in their shop either, but might get it today. (they didn't get it today, I called a bit ago and asked).

Now, I talked to 3 different guys about this today, and it's got me quite pissed off that none of them communicate about anything.

The first guy said, "come on in, we have everything you need" in a "quit talking to me" tone.
Second guy said, "uh, what system is this for, and what is it? :o(had this face, I swear). Didn't even know what the fuck Monster Hunter was. My mom knows what Monster Hunter is for fucks sake.
Third guy said, "yea, we don't have the demo disc in, but you can still pre-order it. I'll have someone call everyone with a pre-order when the demo comes in".
Yea fucking right dude. I highly doubt it.


Anyway, other than the Gamestop guys not being smart in any way, I too am getting excited!

[Kyrith_Ranger_Pso]

well the gamestop dude that's there a lot of the time at the one I go to seems to know practically everything about these games he even played pso on dream cast but that guy wasn't there wen i pre-ordered this (at least I didn't see him who knows if he was in "THE BACK" or somewhere) but the guy who was gave me the edemo disc and knew about the whole 500 wii points on pick up stuff.

[Volcompat321]

The guys I talked to didn't even know about the demo or 500 points.
They are lame.

[Kyrith_Ranger_Pso]

lolZ that sux i guess i have the best of the gamestops cuz the people at mine know stuff and are nice enough to tell us stuff the time i pre-ordered pokemon heart gold the guy there told me that if i was interested they were giving away Jirachis at gamestop (and thats the only reason i knew it was there altho i was going to lookup how to get it soon)

[Volcompat321]

lolZ that sux i guess i have the best of the gamestops cuz the people at mine know stuff and are nice enough to tell us stuff the time i pre-ordered pokemon heart gold the guy there told me that if i was interested they were giving away Jirachis at gamestop (and thats the only reason i knew it was there altho i was going to lookup how to get it soon)

Well, that's nice of those people.
It seems our guys here a bunch of tards.

The one in our mall here just hires assholes, I swear.
If BIGOLAF were to post here, he could probably back me up on that. I'm sure he's been to the mall around here.

(He lives a city over from me! :p)

[Zeek123]

I loathe Gamestop...

The people at mine are such douches... I really hate that it's the only place I can go to get some JRPGs other stores dare not carry.

[Outrider]

I generally shop at Amazon unless I want something on the release date. Even then, I'll usually go to Target or something so that I can stay away from Gamestop.

It's really only when I want to browse for the occasional used game or get an exclusive pre-order deal that I'll go to Gamestop.

Even when I do pre-order, they try and screw you over. When I pre-ordered Left4Dead, I showed up after work to pick up the game and the clerk told me they were sold out. "No problem," I told him, "I pre-ordered."

"No, we sold out of pre-ordered copies as well."

That was pretty surprising to me, because clearly he didn't understand what a pre-order actually means. He decided to check in back just to be sure and sure enough there was an entire case. Kuh-razy, I know.

[Zeek123]

I generally shop at Amazon unless I want something on the release date. Even then, I'll usually go to Target or something so that I can stay away from Gamestop.

It's really only when I want to browse for the occasional used game or get an exclusive pre-order deal that I'll go to Gamestop.

Even when I do pre-order, they try and screw you over. When I pre-ordered Left4Dead, I showed up after work to pick up the game and the clerk told me they were sold out. "No problem," I told him, "I pre-ordered."

"No, we sold out of pre-ordered copies as well."

That was pretty surprising to me, because clearly he didn't understand what a pre-order actually means. He decided to check in back just to be sure and sure enough there was an entire case. Kuh-razy, I know.

Huh... stories like that are pretty common with Gamestop it seems...

Is anyone else tired of the "pre-order bonus" being something that should be included in-game? Like giving out codes to unlock "special" features.

I miss the days when pre-ordering meant you actually got something tangible. Like when I pre-ordered Legend of Zelda: Windwaker, and got a bonus disc containing two versions of Ocarina of Time. That was awesome, and something I can hold on to that won't lose value. Now with things like Battlefield Bad Company 2, those who ordered at Gamestop get instant access to a feature called Squad Rush Mode. I hate things like that.

[lavisblade]

Lol, my old girlfriend's mom worked at the Gamestop near my house for a while...I think she ended up quitting or something...it was pretty cool.

[Kyrith_Ranger_Pso]

Huh... stories like that are pretty common with Gamestop it seems...

Is anyone else tired of the "pre-order bonus" being something that should be included in-game? Like giving out codes to unlock "special" features.

I miss the days when pre-ordering meant you actually got something tangible. Like when I pre-ordered Legend of Zelda: Windwaker, and got a bonus disc containing two versions of Ocarina of Time. That was awesome, and something I can hold on to that won't lose value. Now with things like Battlefield Bad Company 2, those who ordered at Gamestop get instant access to a feature called Squad Rush Mode. I hate things like that.

that kind of pre-order thing is dumb (the stuff that actually changes in-game) everyone should have all the in game stuff but i like pre-order bonuses like action figures or styluses like they give away for pokemon (i dont know if that happened anywhere else) but i stand to my loving of the gamestop near me and the people who work there are awesome, i have regular game-related conversations with one of the guys there all the time.

[Outrider]

I just grabbed my demo disc at lunch. I'm looking forward to giving this game a try.

One thing I should note - my understanding is that the demo disc should be free for anybody to come in and check out, but when I went to get mine, the clerk implied that it was only for people who have pre-ordered.

So, just be aware that Gamestop may be trying to limit this to only people who have pre-ordered.

[Volcompat321]

I just grabbed my demo disc at lunch. I'm looking forward to giving this game a try.

One thing I should note - my understanding is that the demo disc should be free for anybody to come in and check out, but when I went to get mine, the clerk implied that it was only for people who have pre-ordered.

So, just be aware that Gamestop may be trying to limit this to only people who have pre-ordered.

Lame!

Hey, on the second mission, watch out!
Spoilers- (just for the demo)
The monster can use another monster's battle cry to call upon help!

I got me a Rathlos and Rathian called on me, an made it so I couldn't beat it. :/
Use those dung bombs!

First guy is fairly simple though.

[Outrider]

Hey - that demo wasn't that bad!

But I did get my butt kicked while trying to figure out how the different classes worked.

And I ran out of time trying to finish the second mission.

But I'm definitely going to hold onto my pre-order and see where this crazy ride takes me.

[Volcompat321]

Hey - that demo wasn't that bad!

But I did get my butt kicked while trying to figure out how the different classes worked.

And I ran out of time trying to finish the second mission.

But I'm definitely going to hold onto my pre-order and see where this crazy ride takes me.

Yea, those weapons aren't too great for defeating the second mission.
Should be a breeze for the second mission though!

Also, did your second mission monster happen to call a Rathian or a Rathalos on you?

[CAMPSO]

Also, did your second mission monster happen to call a Rathian or a Rathalos on you?

This happened to me. Couldn't beat it tho. The bowgun wasn't the best weapon to use lol.

[HAYABUSA-FMW-]

I just grabbed my demo disc at lunch. I'm looking forward to giving this game a try.

One thing I should note - my understanding is that the demo disc should be free for anybody to come in and check out, but when I went to get mine, the clerk implied that it was only for people who have pre-ordered.

So, just be aware that Gamestop may be trying to limit this to only people who have pre-ordered.
Cool, thanks for the note. Its not even mentioned in their email/weekly advert where it says the preorder deal for the game. Guess they don't have enough to go round to even market it out?

PSP one was supposed to be free as well, but they wanted me to buy something PSP related. Got a $5 movie, and something else I think. Other online reports varied, some got it no trouble free.

[Outrider]

Yea, those weapons aren't too great for defeating the second mission.
Should be a breeze for the second mission though!

Also, did your second mission monster happen to call a Rathian or a Rathalos on you?

It called the boss from the first mission, so that didn't help.

[Volcompat321]

It called the boss from the first mission, so that didn't help.

Yea, it'll call the other ones too, so be careful!
My mom was playing and doesn't know anything about MH, and when Rathian popped up at her she got scared. hahahaha.

[AngelofEnders]

I didn't pre-order to get my copy. I asked the manager if he had copies, he said yeah then tried to sell me a pre-order. Asked him if I had to pre-order to get the demo but in a tone that suggest I wasn't gonna pre-order just to play a demo and he got me the demo while looking slightly annoyed.

To be fair, the manager that works at that Gamestop is a damn creep so I wouldn't have gotten a pre-order from that store regardless.

[Zarode]

Things have been getting stiffer lately at Gamestop, so expect any of the ones you go to start...


Playing dirty for the things they need (more then one item transaction, the insurances for the systems and games, reservations, and game informer subscriptions). It's sad.

[Niered]

Yeah, from what I hear, Gamestop is trying to bully people (no surprise there) into preordering the game, even though the promotion said nothing about it.

Which pretty much means I no longer care. I haven't played a Monster Hunter game before, and I've got different friends that have told me different things about it. I wasn't super hyped for the game, but a demo that impressed me could definitely have sold me on a purchase, so when I first heard that Capcom was giving demo disks at Gamestop's, I was actually pretty impressed that they would make such a consumer friendly move. Walk in, pick it up, and then go home and play it. If I liked it, I would have bought it.

But Gamestop's operating under this ridiculous logic that I should have to commit to the final purchase of the product before I get or even try the free demo.

Its no different than walking into a grocery store and seeing one of those "Free-Sample" booths with some new crackers, only when you ask for the sample, the clerk tells you you have to put a down payment on the crackers which promises the store that you wont walk out without buying a box of them.

Awesome marketing strategy Gamestop, ya twat's.

[Outrider]

It's sad that I'm so used to seeing "pre-order and you get the demo (or get the demo earlier)" promotions that when I first heard about the MH3 demo disc I assumed it would be a similar situation.

Going to Gamestop almost always leaves a bad taste in my mouth. There is the rare occasion that I find a nice bit of treasure (picking up a sealed new copy of Harvey Birdman on Wii for $4 comes to mind), but it's generally ruined by something else (purchasing a "new" copy of Dokapon Kingdom that was a loose disc behind the desk and placed into the game's beaten-up display case.)

Both those situations happened on the same trip this past holiday season. I wasn't sure how to feel.

[Zeek123]

I guess what bugs me most about Gamestop is that their claim to fame is selling used games.

While that side of things is kinda nice in that it helps keep the prices for new games down, I can't help but feel guilty that when I buy a used game, the developer sees 0% of those profits.

And Gamestop does it so shamelessly. Sell a game for 2 bucks that they'll turn around and sell for 35? They can go f*ck themselves.

[Zarode]

I guess what bugs me most about Gamestop is that their claim to fame is selling used games.

While that side of things is kinda nice in that it helps keep the prices for new games down, I can't help but feel guilty that when I buy a used game, the developer sees 0% of those profits.

And Gamestop does it so shamelessly. Sell a game for 2 bucks that they'll turn around and sell for 35? They can go f*ck themselves.

And mom and pop places that do this same thing, are guilty free?

Pro-tip: Don't buy a car, ever. It will lose value the instant you take it off the lot. Same logic applies where ever needed.

Also, don't feel guilty about buying used games. There is no reason to feel guilty. Acting silly, if you ask me. If a developer wanted to see 100% profits, they shouldn't have sold a physical copy of their game. Them's the breaks.

[Volcompat321]

And mom and pop places that do this same thing, are guilty free?

Pro-tip: Don't buy a car, ever. It will lose value the instant you take it off the lot. Same logic applies where ever needed.

Also, don't feel guilty about buying used games. There is no reason to feel guilty. Acting silly, if you ask me. If a developer wanted to see 100% profits, they shouldn't have sold a physical copy of their game. Them's the breaks.

I've never in my life seen a "mom and pop" game store.

I don't exactly understand the guilt either, because the developers get the original cost, so they already made their money.

No reason to give rich people more money, while the consumer has very little money.
Gamestop for the most part is a pile of shit, but people love it (...including myself) because it's convenient!
Now, you could go to the pawn shop and sell your games, shit, I'd do it to if I know they'd give me more!
Then you take the cash, go to Gamestop/or game store/Walmart, buy the game you want, and use the extra cash for the gas money to get you there! :p

Or some food or something.

[Niered]

And mom and pop places that do this same thing, are guilty free?

Pro-tip: Don't buy a car, ever. It will lose value the instant you take it off the lot. Same logic applies where ever needed.

Also, don't feel guilty about buying used games. There is no reason to feel guilty. Acting silly, if you ask me. If a developer wanted to see 100% profits, they shouldn't have sold a physical copy of their game. Them's the breaks.

Actually Zeek makes a very legitimate point.

Y'see, the biggest problem I have with Gamestop isn't the fact that they make money off of used purchases and the developer doesn't (they're just running a business after all) its that they use so many shady business techniques to do so.

For instance, it is Gamestop policy to purposefully order only slightly more games than people preorder. Now, this makes a certain amount of sense for lesser known titles (lets say, Knights in the Nightmare for instance) because chances are those arent the kind of games that alot of people will really know about. But the thing is, they do this for all games, especially big name titles. GTA4 was a perfect example. They do this because theres always those one or two folks who buy the game and either beat it in a couple of days or who return it because they were dissatisfied with it.

What that means for the poor schmuck that walks in the next day, wanting to buy a brand new copy of the game off the shelf is, as Gamestop has engineered it, he has to buy a used copy of the game for an extremely marginal cutdown, say 5 bucks, because the only games left are used copies.

So to sum it up, Gamestop sells the original brand new game, and makes (totally off the top of my head) about $30 USD off of a $50 game. They then get a small number of those original titles sold back to them, and purposefully do not order enough new games to replenish their stock. They pay at most, $20 for the used game, and resell it for only a 5$ markdown. They just nearly doubled their profits, while screwing the customer over.

Because honestly, saving a measly $5 on a game knowing its a used copy, possibly beaten up in some way, is ridiculous. And it's why I don't do it, I just go elsewhere and buy the game new.

This may seem trivial, but Gamestop has much more annoying tactics as well. For instance, they have set prices they will accept older generation games. I have seen a child trade in Pikmin 2 for less than $10. This makes a certain amount of sense though right? It's a fairly unknown game for last generation, so it shouldn't be worth that much.

Wrong. Gamestop takes that game and puts it in their used bin for $45 simply because it is such an unknown title. They expect a customer so desperate for the hard to find game to actually pay what it was worth on release almost 6 years after it came out. This is the case with alot of hard to find GCN, XBOX, and PS2 titles, and the markups only get worse when it comes to shit like GBA games.

Then you have the employees and their constant begging for you to preorder. This is obviously because it pretty much guarantees that you end up buying the final product from them, and as I stated above, they use negative reinforcement to remind the consumer that not preordering is a bad thing (which is just stupid, seeing as how no other industry requires me to alert them to my imminent purchase of their product, for instance, I do not have to alert Blockbuster that I will be buying "Shutter Island" in 5 months.)

But the employees are just as screwed as you or I. Employees can be put on a sort of probationary period for not meeting a certain quota of preorders. This leads to employees also using shady tactics, such as allowing a customer to pre-order a game they pre-ordered at a prior visit to the store. This is purposeful negligence on the employees part, seeing as how when they pull up the customers phone number they instantly see any pre-orders the customer has made. But it adds to their preorder count.

Lastly, and I realize that Gamestop isn't the only company to do this, but then you have those fucking awful pre-order bonuses. I can only get "X" if I buy the game from "Y" and etc. Both Best Buy and Wal-Mart occasionally do these promotions as well, but the idea that I'm not getting some content that is available at release because I didn't buy from the preferred retailer is just ridiculous. I think the worst thing I ever saw was when Hellgate London was released, Best Buy, Wal-Mart, and Gamestop had different pre-order bonuses. I ended up purchasing mine from a Target simply because I didn't want to support that kinda mess.

So yeah, you can argue that Gamestop is just a business, but the simple fact is that they aren't treating their customer's with any ounce of respect, and they really don't have much competition either. They're the only national chain of Video-Game-Only retailers (Babbage's might be national, though I haven't seen one anywhere outside of Indiana) and the only kind of competition they really have are big electronics store like Best Buy.

[Outrider]

Actually, Babbage's is the same company as Gamestop.

For the record, I do occasionally pick up something used from Gamestop, but it's almost always something random that's several years old and offered at a heavily discounted price. New game prices drop so quickly these days that I generally pick up something new on Amazon if I've got my eye on it.

But back to the Gamestop bashing - I really do hate the policy on taking new games out of the cases. If I'm purchasing a new game, I want a brand new copy that hasn't been touched by the store's employees. It should be sealed in shrink-wrap by the manufacturer, not the retailer. It's one thing if it's really the last copy they have and you're picking up the "floor model," but when they're pulling your case and the game from behind the desk, that's just not right.

Even worse is that in some cases employees are allowed to take those games home and play them. In theory it's supposed to be used games that they're taking home, but since those are actually worth more to the company, they'll oftentimes take home the opened "new" games to play and then put them back in the "new games" drawer for an unsuspecting customer. I should mention that this all came to light a year or two back, and I'm sure they've since discontinued the practice, but it was still a crappy thing for them to do.

[Volcompat321]

It's not all games that were taken out of the package.
They only keep a few (1-3 actually) copies out of the wrapper and put them on the shelf.

I often ask when I buying a new game if I can get one not opened yet, and they have never turned me down.

There have been times where I didn't have to ask too.

Don't take this as defending Gamestop though, because I hate them as much as the next guy.

[Zeek123]

My point isn't that gamestop is any worse than a mom and pop shop for selling used games, it's just that at least the pawn shop is fair to all parties involved. To the sellers and the buyers. When you look at gamestop's Wall Of used games and see that mass effect 2 or something is only 5 dollars less used, how can you not feel screwed over? You know the person who sold it only got 10 bucks out of it. Maybe 10.50 if they had their edge card. That's complete bs to me.

And pat, not all developers are backed by huge publishers. Or if a game that's really good doesn't see the sales, there may not be a sequel. Or might not see future business from the publisher.

[Vanzazikon]

You have to threaten Volcompat with a developer he cares about like Camelot. What if Camelot doesn't get enough money to release Golden Sun 3? :wacko:

[Zeek123]

You have to threaten Volcompat with a developer he cares about like Camelot. What if Camelot doesn't get enough money to release Golden Sun 3? :wacko:

Lol. If the GS series wasn't a hit, there probably wouldn't be a third coming. I couldn't see Nintendo dropping the guys that make their golf and tennis games :p

[RAcast Extremist]

Someone should make a Monster Hunter group. Just saying.

[Outrider]

Apparently a lot of people are having trouble getting the demo from Gamestop: http://consumerist.com/2010/03/blogger-says-gamestop-is-abusing-free-demo-to-drive-up-preorders.html

[Volcompat321]

Wow, that's a shame.
Luckily the Gamestop crew around here had a huge Capcom box with MH3 art all over it just sitting out.
I just grabbed my copy and said thanks as I left. (the guy answered a lot of questions I had about other games, so I thought I'd be nice back).

Cant say I don't expect this behavior though; It is Gamestop.

[HAYABUSA-FMW-]

Apparently a lot of people are having trouble getting the demo from Gamestop: http://consumerist.com/2010/03/blogger-says-gamestop-is-abusing-free-demo-to-drive-up-preorders.html
Blogs with useful info found through portal - source links into this:

http://zsaberlink.wordpress.com/2010/02/27/how-to-get-a-demo-of-monster-hunter-tri/

Too late to get any mailed to the house, forgoing any Gamestop hubbub.

But I guess its no big deal to just pre-order and cancel later. It would be a big deal if they're not giving you the extra $5 off the game and the Monster Hunter themed 500 Wii Points card bonuses.

Target has that $1 pre-order thing that gets you a $5 gift card when it releases, as an alternative.

[Zeek123]

So... still no confirmation on that lock-on/dodge roll? :?

[Niered]

Ohohohoho I see what you did there.

[pikachief]

oh i was supposed to pre-order the game for the demo? LOL XD that explains a lot! :P

He kept trying to sell me the game and have me pre-order and i just kept saying no thanks i'll just take the demo. I guess i said it so many times he didnt know what to do so he let me go away with it LOL!

I've never played a monster hunter but i must suck really bad :/ i cant beat the first mission :(

[LavisFiend]

The controls were the deal breaker for me.

[Volcompat321]

The controls were the deal breaker for me.

There's like 5 different control types, there's not one you could find?

Are you new to video gaming?

:o

[amtalx]

There was a big stack of demo discs in my Gamestop when I went to pick up GoW3 and Dragon Age Awakening. I figured I'd try it since I haven't even plugged in my Wii since Mario Galaxy two years ago. I was actually pretty excited since I haven't had a reason to use my Wii in ages, and I keep hearing how awesome MH is.

Too bad this game is f*cking terrible.

Agreeing with the previous posters, the controls are the most masochistic I've seen since the original Resident Evil, maybe more so. At least RE had a fixed camera. Using the classic controller--which I don't have--is the only way this game would even approach being playable. It seems pretty backwards that the best way to play a game on a console whose basis is motion control is to buy a regular controller.

Just wait for MH:Frontier on PC/360. Hopefully the controls won't be as broken. It also might not look like an old PS2 game.

[Outrider]

Yeah, wow - I don't think you want to play the game with anything but the classic controller.

I'm currently borrowing my girlfriend's, but that's why I'm picking up the controller bundle.


oh i was supposed to pre-order the game for the demo? LOL XD that explains a lot! :P

He kept trying to sell me the game and have me pre-order and i just kept saying no thanks i'll just take the demo. I guess i said it so many times he didnt know what to do so he let me go away with it LOL!

No, that's the thing - the demo is supposed to be free for everyone, but Gamestop is trying to force people to pre-order to get it.

[Akaimizu]

The game was really meant to be played on a Classic Controller. That's the only way I've played this game, and it works out pretty well. Even better than the PSP, if only because of the right stick.

Believe me, this game technically doesn't have a lock-on interface for a reason. Capcom knows about lock-on systems, and has made games with em, so it's not like they did it without it being done on purpose. If you approach this game like an Action-RPG, or a Dungeon Hacker, you'll be thrown off. The reviewers and previewers almost always get the genre of this game, wrong. Beating the monsters is more akin to Megaman X. Until you learn their attack patterns and mannerisms, you'll never defeat the more difficulty monsters. So it takes a bit of knowledge of your weapon and learning your bosses, to work through the game.

Thing is, the game does have a huge importance on where you're hitting the monster, and today's lock-on camera systems generally would force your aim to where you don't want to hit, take away your ability to predictively hit it, or be too obvious with tell-tale motions before the monster really commits to doing it. Capcom really wants you to look at the monsters, and learn all about their body-language, without assists. Not to mention, different parts of the body with different levels of hardness, which affect how fast your weapon dulls, etc. It's a bit hard to explain the benefit of a more manual camera until the game *clicks*. When you see how you really fight monsters.

Again, this is done much better on classic-controller (or CC Pro) setups, since they also contain the more familiar twin stick capability. You could then choose to control the camera a lot more like a typical 3rd person game, then. In fact, no difference than most players had in PSO/PSU (the exception being the lock-on system of melee in PSU). Monster Hunter was put on the Wii due to the amount of Wiis out there and the lower development costs. However, the game itself was never really made for the Wii based on Motion Controls.

As for the Demo issues. Only certain Gamestops are pulling this trick. All the Gamestops around me, that I've been to, have been setting the demos in their box-kiosks free to take.

There's is a lot to a Monster Hunter game, it's got a lot of content and things to do, however, it's almost a different genre from the Action-RPG aspect it's often grouped into.

In this game, you could hit a monster 50 times in the back, have to sharpen your weapon 5+ times with the same weapon. Or hit the monster in a low-protected spot, less than 20 times and kill it, and maybe sharpen the weapon, at most, once. A little tip for the Qurupeco. When it knows you're there, it turns to face your precise direction for any attack or attack-prep it does. So just facing it will likely land a head hit. Remember, if it is about to attack, roll right afterwards. Roll-cancelling is alive and well in Monster hunter, and often the first thing you can do quickly after throwing a big attack. Even with a big giant heavy weapon you just brought down on its head.

[Volcompat321]

Well said Akaimizu.

Monster Hunter is a game like no other.

I don't see how or why so many people want lock on.
Lock on would hinder your abilities, as Akaimizu said, and would most likely get you killed.

If you haven't played (or haven't played long) in the other Monster Hunter games, I'd suggest getting your little over a half months time left to play the PSP versions.
Get familiar on how the game works, how items work, weapons, movement and whatnot.

Honestly, it's probably the best PSP game, ever.
I actually prefer the camera now, because you do get used to it, very quickly, or you suck at MH. You simply cannot survive if you don't learn it.

As for the camera controls on Monster Hunter (PSP) it's the same damn thing PS:P1 has.
You have the directional for the camera, the L for the camera snap, so what's the big deal?
If strafing is all that is stopping you from liking Monster Hunter, it's just not your game then.

If you've played MH before, you'd know lock on is a horrible idea.

Anyway, I think Akaimizu said enough.

[amtalx]

I don't think it boils down to a simple lock-on mechanic. The design paradigms in general just seem archaic. These are the type of controls you would run into before dual analog sticks were standard, and before developers knew how to build quality dynamic cameras. It's almost as if the developers are stuck in 2005. I would expect more progress in a game with so many iterations.

[pikachief]

i read what u guys have said about lock-on and I have to say

I would probably buy this game if it had lock-on.

Sure it'll point me at the wrong direction, but for people who need help, lock-on would be nice, and when u know how to kill the enemy thats when u stop using lock-on so u can correctly kill it

[Niered]

I would expect more progress in a game with so many iterations.

I'm going to go ahead and say something that is going to get me alot of hate, but I feel it needs to be said anyways.

Japanese developers will, 9 times out of 10, be incapable of updating a series. Whenever I say this, I always use the "Tales of" games as an example. My first tales game was Symphonia. I really enjoyed it (shit story aside) and felt that the gameplay was definitely fun enough to warrant the length of the game.

One day, while I was at a gamestop, I saw the re-released "Tales of Phantasia" for Gameboy Advance, and figured that I owed it to myself to see what the first game in the series was like. I played through the entire game, and although I enjoyed it as well, I realized one thing.

Apart from the fact that one game was 2D and the other 3D, they were nearly identical. The combat system in Symphonia is virtually identical to that of Phantasia, there wasn't a single "New" concept in the series from phantasia to symphonia.

I think alot of this comes from the fact that in Japanese game development studio's, specifically those tasked with JRPG's, only the Game Designers are actually allowed to submit and implement design idea's in a game. That might seem somehow obvious, but in the west, many design ideas come from the in house artist's, and the programmers as well, who voice their ideas and are encouraged to do so.

It's very incestuous, because on top of this Japan is a bigger capitalist state than the USA even, so they have immense pressure to make blockbuster after blockbuster, and the easiest way they see of doing that is to avoid any and all chances of alienating any of their fans. They feel pressured to make the same thing, year after year.

Obviously the west is not immune to this, sports games, many FPS's, and other various titles have the same problem. They are virtually identical from one game in the series to the other. I think the difference is in how obvious it is with Japanese RPG's.

Easily the most important part of a game is gameplay (obvious), and in a JRPG, the most obvious part of gameplay is oftentimes the battle system. Tales battle system is hugely different than Grandia's, or Monster Hunter's, etc. etc. So when rather than expanding on those systems, you just re-hash them, it's much more obvious that thats exactly what you've done

Whereas in say, a racing game, yes, the racing is important, but oftentimes the race courses themselves are the main focus of gameplay, though I'd say many racing series have been able to distance themselves from their predecessors as well (the best example of this is probably Burnout, which had a very mediocre first installment and then leapt out of obscurity with its next games.)

I'm kind of getting off track, in all reality I don't know that this is the case with MH, as I haven't had the chance to play it yet, but from what I'm hearing it could be that way.

[Randomness]

I'll probably pick up the demo disc when I get around to getting FFXIII next week. (Spring break, which is perfect)

How bad is it without a classic controller, anyways?

[amtalx]

How bad is it without a classic controller, anyways?

If you're really saddled with the Wiimote/Nunchuk...I honestly wouldn't even bother. Here's how it works: The analog stick moves (obviously.) Unfortunately, since the Wiimote doesn't have enough buttons for all the attacks, you are forced to tilt the Wiimote left or right to make the A button multifunction. For example you tilt right and press A for a side slash, tilt left for a shield attack, or horizontal for a chop. There are other variations for upswings and sideswings of the Wiimote to do jumping slashes and whatnot.

Long story short, the controls are criminal.

[LavisFiend]

Maybe it's just the demo copy, but it was to my understanding that in past Monster Hunter games the monsters had ways of showing that you were keying in on their weak points with larger blood splatters and body language that shown you were doing damage. This one does not have that, and if anything, if there IS any indicators you are hurting the monsters where you need to be, it's pretty much subtle.

Also, the classes don't feel right to me. It was too my understanding you will find better gear eventually and all that stuff but for the most part everything is going to feel the same. There will not be a lighter hammer for hammer class for instance.

I can see where the game is going in a sort of action/rpg version of Punch Out's way of handling game play where you HAVE to learn the moves the opponent uses and key in on weaknesses once they are apparent. The difference is that Punch Out did both of these things in as easily distinguishable manner. There was no second guessing anything. This one not so much. I assumed the first battle with the large raptor would be his head that was his weakness, so naturally I smacked him in the head.

A lot. Like around 12 times, dead on. Either the game has crappy collision detection, or the threshold of damage these monsters can take is far too large. and it wasn't easy to get that many because I was battling with the slow turning camera (which I had to do manually cause I don't recall there being a camera snap button as was insinuated by earlier posts) and chasing the monster down very slowly cause I had a heavier character and the stupid dinosaur would not die and was keen on running away. The constant loading screens were detrimental to the cause as well. So basically the fight was: slowly work my way over to boss. Dodge his hip move a few times. Whack him like 4-6 times all the while refocusing my camera back on him slowly. He roars, summons minions, hobbles away. I have to swat them away. Run after him. Loading screen. He makes it to the other area. I follow. Loading screen. Hit him 6 more times. He runs into his cave. I follow a path that leads through two areas before getting there. Two loading screens. FINALLY find him sleeping (???) and hit him a few more times and he FINALLY dies.

There honestly is no excuse for all these loading screens when you see games working on older engines that didn't use them. Shadow of the Colossus comes to mind. So really it depends on what exactly is in the final product. What matters the most for me to even consider purchasing this title are these things:

-Better camera controls

-Less loading screens

-More obvious signs of fatigue and just a general sense I am actually HURTING the damn thing

-More flexibility with the classes and classes that don't feel like they are bricks with refrigerators tied to their brick ankles.

-A lock on would be nice, but I am fine with not having one if they make the camera controls function better. Easy to do; make the scroll faster and make a convenient camera snap function.

THEN, AND ONLY THEN, once all these conditions are met, would I consider getting this title. Till then, it's too much work for my buck and that is best spent elsewhere; like Galaxy 2 or Other M.

[Zeek123]

In reply to Niered's comment. Spoiler-ed to save some room.

[SPOILER-BOX]
I'm going to go ahead and say something that is going to get me alot of hate, but I feel it needs to be said anyways.

Japanese developers will, 9 times out of 10, be incapable of updating a series. Whenever I say this, I always use the "Tales of" games as an example. My first tales game was Symphonia. I really enjoyed it (shit story aside) and felt that the gameplay was definitely fun enough to warrant the length of the game.

One day, while I was at a gamestop, I saw the re-released "Tales of Phantasia" for Gameboy Advance, and figured that I owed it to myself to see what the first game in the series was like. I played through the entire game, and although I enjoyed it as well, I realized one thing.

Apart from the fact that one game was 2D and the other 3D, they were nearly identical. The combat system in Symphonia is virtually identical to that of Phantasia, there wasn't a single "New" concept in the series from phantasia to symphonia.

I think alot of this comes from the fact that in Japanese game development studio's, specifically those tasked with JRPG's, only the Game Designers are actually allowed to submit and implement design idea's in a game. That might seem somehow obvious, but in the west, many design ideas come from the in house artist's, and the programmers as well, who voice their ideas and are encouraged to do so.

It's very incestuous, because on top of this Japan is a bigger capitalist state than the USA even, so they have immense pressure to make blockbuster after blockbuster, and the easiest way they see of doing that is to avoid any and all chances of alienating any of their fans. They feel pressured to make the same thing, year after year.

Obviously the west is not immune to this, sports games, many FPS's, and other various titles have the same problem. They are virtually identical from one game in the series to the other. I think the difference is in how obvious it is with Japanese RPG's.

Easily the most important part of a game is gameplay (obvious), and in a JRPG, the most obvious part of gameplay is oftentimes the battle system. Tales battle system is hugely different than Grandia's, or Monster Hunter's, etc. etc. So when rather than expanding on those systems, you just re-hash them, it's much more obvious that thats exactly what you've done

Whereas in say, a racing game, yes, the racing is important, but oftentimes the race courses themselves are the main focus of gameplay, though I'd say many racing series have been able to distance themselves from their predecessors as well (the best example of this is probably Burnout, which had a very mediocre first installment and then leapt out of obscurity with its next games.)

I'm kind of getting off track, in all reality I don't know that this is the case with MH, as I haven't had the chance to play it yet, but from what I'm hearing it could be that way.[/SPOILER-BOX]

I have to agree that Japanese games rarely take that big bold leap we all crave. I guess that's why the Wii seemed so attractive. But it's not necessarily always a bad thing. In the case of the Tales series, which I do love, they make incremental improvements and tweaks from game to game. Except for Legendia, which leapt back a decade. Personally, I like that they do this because I can jump right in and feel at home with the newer games, and learn the little nuances on the way. Plus, it's kind of set up like a fighting game in my opinion. It's not like we're going to see a revolutionary new Soul Calibur. I'm not hating, I promise.

That being said, I think MH should just modernize itself a little. Not abandon its foundation, just make it more accessible. I figure the inclusion of a right stick makes that tank camera just come alive. Plus there would always be the option to not use a lock-on.

I understand the enemies get enormous, and that's one of the problems that would arise. A lock-on could be focused on one spot, say a toe, and the camera could pan out and track both you and the monster. Between that and a HUD giving you intel on your party members, I think that would make for a pretty efficient system. And that's not even going into the methods of actually attacking.

[Zarode]

So I see you have never played Monster Hunter before. Like, really have no played it beyond the first couple roadblocks. Like where lock on would be the worst thing in the world didn't play before didn't get that far sort.

[Outrider]

Sorry, but what's the argument against lock-on, again?

Are you assuming that the lock-on would only allow you to lock onto the enemy itself and not the individual body parts?

Because action-RPGs of this vein have done multi-section lock-on before. If I recall, Ocarina of Time did this and didn't even have a second-stick to help when selecting different targets.

So I'm asking - what's wrong with a lock-on aside from the perceived problem of locking onto different body parts?

[LavisFiend]

So I see you have never played Monster Hunter before. Like, really have no played it beyond the first couple roadblocks. Like where lock on would be the worst thing in the world didn't play before didn't get that far sort.

Who are you addressing that too.

[Volcompat321]

Lock on could cause multiple problems.

The only way I'd see lock on as a good thing, is when you're fighting the big, big guys.
Like so big you cant fit them on the screen, big.

Other than those guys, it's just too problematic.
You would have really had to play the games at least 20-50 hours to know what we're talking about.

You don't want to be locked onto something that can thrust backwards, while shooting a fireball at you.
(I'll post screenshots of a Rathalos doing this later)

If you have played MH for any good amount of time, to get the better gear, then what's your argument for lock on?

[Outrider]

Lock-on would allow you to focus specifically on the area of the monster that you want to attack and would keep the camera aimed at this monster at all times.

Where is the flaw in that? I'm having trouble understanding how the kinds of attacks they have would prevent this from working.

If it's an issue of the enemy doing some sort of extreme movement, the lock-on can break off, just like it does in many, many games.

I've yet to see one concrete reason for the argument against lock-on aside from the "multiple damage areas" point.

Would it make it too easy? Is that the concern? If not, please be specific.

[Volcompat321]

It might make the game too easy.

There's really a bunch of reasons, and like I said, you'd have to get into the game a good amount of time to see why lock on would be bad.

I really don't see how you could have enough time to break the lock on, when an "extreme" movement is about to happen.

There's literally no time to tell with certain monsters.
Some (most) others are actually quite easy to tell what they're doing.

I don't know man, you'd just have to play. It's hard to be specific(for me) unless you actually see what I mean.


Maybe it's just that I got so used to how it works already, with literally over 3,000 hours throughout all the MH games(on PSP).

The camera controls don't seem bad to me either; they work fine!

[amtalx]

There is no justification for a lack of lock-on. The fact is that the last page of this thread has been a series of salvos lamenting how poor the MH design is. Naturally, fans are going to rush to the series' defense, even if the particular aspect under attack is essentially indefensible. The point of a lock-on mechanic is simply to maintain focus. The camera isn't going to force your spear into an enemy's wing instead of its head. It's a camera, not auto-aim. In a particularly difficult situation where a locked camera makes your job harder...don't use it. Adjust the camera manually and forget the lock-on, like virtually every other modern game out there.

Playing the game for 20-50 hours doesn't usually mean players are going to have a grand epiphany and finally understand why such an antiquated system is still being used. It just sounds like the people that have already invested that much time have either become acclimatized to the camera, or are dismissing its inferiority to justify their investment. A few tricky creatures is hardly justification for plaguing everyone with an awful camera, when a locked camera would be helpful more often than not. There are a ton of design blunders in PSO/PSU, and I forgave them over time. However, my forgiveness doesn't change that they were still terrible ideas to begin with.

[Volcompat321]

It's just not something that is needed.

You don't fix what's not broken.

To me it seems like the people that haven't played enough of this game are the ones with the problems.

Yea, I'm a fan, and I will defend the game, because I don't think the lock on is a good idea.
You may think it's terrible, but I think it's a perfect camera system(for what the PSP is limited to).

Have you ever played the old Playstation 2 Monster Hunter?

The right control stick was used to attack, not as a camera.
The game only got bad reviews because the first monster you fought was/is extremely hard.

Honestly, I think the big deal might be that I got so used to it, I love it.
Why would you change something you already know, and love?
For the new players of the series, just deal with how it was made.
I really don't see lock on as a good thing, ever.
And you would have to play the game for a significant amount of time to know what the people defending the game mean.

[amtalx]

Porting handheld controls to a full scale console game is not acceptable. Consoles provide significantly more horsepower and far greater control options (although Wii controls are almost as limited as handheld...) A larger toolset means we should expect more advanced design. Building a birdhouse with a handsaw and some nails is impressive, but if you have a whole workshop of power tools, you had better build something worthy of the tools used to build it. I don't see that here.

Justifying stagnant mechanics because you are 'used to it' is, for lack of a better word, retarded. There's a reason controllers have more than two buttons on them now. It's called progress. The status quo has come a long way, and that includes things like snap-to cameras. The best way to breath new life into a series is to correct the mistakes and bolster what was done well. Something about this MH game just screams "revenue exceeded development costs, so we're not going to try". If the developers aren't careful, MH might turn into Dynasty Warriors, otherwise known as the longest running franchise that hasn't improved since the first release.

[Palle]

As a lover of the series who's invested serious cash in Capcom, I'm personally inclined to agree with amtalx about MHF. I was shocked when Capcom announced it for 360. From what I've seen in trailers, most of the graphics surpass PS2 [e.g. PSU] quality, save for some of the attack/environmental effects [which I'd describe as 'GameCubey']. IIRC, it has roughly double the content of previous console versions. I spent plenty of hours trying to spoof the PC version with JP proxies, but it was never playable, so I stayed with MH2 for PS2 which was still enjoyable.

I dunno, MH3 looks fun, particularly underwater combat, but considering what I'd have to spend to get involved compared to MHF the latter looks like the obvious choice. For those that already have the Wii and are used to both the MH controls and the classic controller, I don't see why it wouldn't be a solid investment.

For me, it might just be the first MonHan that I won't get to play. C'est la vie.

[Zarode]

Who are you addressing that too.

Lock-oners.

[LavisFiend]

Lock-oners.

Oh I was about to say "duuuuude."

lol. I gotcha now.


If the developers aren't careful, MH might turn into Dynasty Warriors, otherwise known as the longest running franchise that hasn't improved since the first release.

HEY...HEY!

They can swim now! So at least they are trying!


.......rofl.

[Weeaboolits]

I don't think it really needs lock-on anyway, I kinda saw having to aim as the trade-off for not having to get close or sharpen your weapon in the middle of combat.

[Akaimizu]

Don't be surprised on the 360 version. It's a port of Frontier, on the PC, and has very little development costs. The simple port job is precisely why it's getting it.

[Volcompat321]

---

Cut it out to save room.


Have you ever played the series, with enough time to get into the hardest points of the game?

If not, what you're saying is not valid.
I hope for your sake of arguing, you've played any MH for a long time.

[amtalx]

Cut it out to save room.


Have you ever played the series, with enough time to get into the hardest points of the game?

If not, what you're saying is not valid.
I hope for your sake of arguing, you've played any MH for a long time.

I've played enough to know the Wii isn't a good fit, and the controls belong back in 2005.

[Volcompat321]

I would agree on the Wii not being a good fit.
The controls are fine; better than some games anyway.

Ps3 or/and even Xbox would have been a much better system to go with.

[Zeek123]

So I see you have never played Monster Hunter before. Like, really have no played it beyond the first couple roadblocks. Like where lock on would be the worst thing in the world didn't play before didn't get that far sort.

Sorry... I wanted to fight monsters, not the camera.

To all the defenders: look, no one's calling your series a shit-game. Frankly, I WANT a new MMO to jump into, and MH-Tri seems like a decent fit. Yes, I wish it were on the PS3, or 360, or Steam, or basically anything without a friends list stuck in the stone ages.

At least give a sound reason for defending it. It seems like such a basic feature to actually argue against.

[Vanzazikon]

HEY...HEY!

They can swim now! So at least they are trying!


.......rofl.The funny thing is both franchises added swimming in their latest release...

[Akaimizu]

The problem with explaining the camera, in proper terms, requires that one can put it into context with a game that plays just like Monster Hunter. But alas, there aren't any. It is a combination of multiple factors including the locational *body hardness*, the different-sized hitboxes for most of the monsters, the active fighting of multiple monsters which often require the camera to be best positioned in a direction that isn't locked-onto any one target.

There's a lot of factors for which you can't just go out any find any game on the PC, or other platform, which work like this, except another Monster Hunter game. In Monster Hunter, you're guarranteed to hit a wall that slows you down, especially if you're doing it on your own. However, most issues are really not knowing the monster. One familiar enough with the system barely ever fights the camera. Now, with the Wiimote and Nunchuck, you're probably fighting the controls a bit as they are not as good as the controller. This affects just about anything you control in the game, including the camera.

But the funny thing, once you figure out your first *tough* monster, the unusual gameplay style actually *clicks*. That's the norm, anyway. It's a physical teaching and an approach teaching that's tough to put into words because you didn't figure it out with words.

That's why it is tough. It's like trying to explain how cool Illbleed is, and how the Character balance really fits into how it makes you have to play the game differently to get the best out of each character. Because I can think of no other game in which the way you must play it, and the relationship between your gameplay mechanics and your stats are done in any game prior to it. (Or afterwards, to this day). Even though, if you looked at screenshots, you'd think it was just some survival-horror wannabe.

[Hatrix]

I never played this game but it looks alright, accept the water combat

[amtalx]

The funny thing is both franchises added swimming in their latest release...

Progress! Of course, it still took Koei over a decade to do something besides update textures and models. :wacko: Although, "Now with water levels!" is typically groan-worthy.

[Zarode]

Sorry... I wanted to fight monsters, not the camera.

To all the defenders: look, no one's calling your series a shit-game. Frankly, I WANT a new MMO to jump into, and MH-Tri seems like a decent fit. Yes, I wish it were on the PS3, or 360, or Steam, or basically anything without a friends list stuck in the stone ages.

At least give a sound reason for defending it. It seems like such a basic feature to actually argue against.

MH is not an MMO, go elsewhere.


Post videos for the sake of being against it.


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TH7M2bXLg1E

(skip to about 2 mins in)

Too big to lock on, would be a nightmare to even follow as the camera would wig out 90%. You need to go for its belly, so the big thing you watch out for is its tail (insta-KO) and its legs (also insta-KO). He tends to get up on his hind-legs, so locking on would also cause the camera to freak the fuck out.


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iYQlkOdsPUQ

Tends to go underground a lot, lock on would either wig out or deselect. Most players who depend on locking on would lose this fight quickly. Has an insta-KO mouth beam with a huge range. You have to listen for the tell on that one. Lock-on ain't gonna tell you to dodge, will it? Nor will it let you, as you get hit by the scrub-cannon.

But those are end game examples. Pretty sure you will never get that far, so lemme hit some things you might.


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nXL8fdgCYMo

(about 2 minutes in)


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ujL29gIKP1c&NR=1

(skip about a minute in)

Hip-checks would stop you fast. Swing hits (when they stand in place, and swing their head and tail to hit you) would stop you fast and a lock-on camera on the head would wig out, fast. Charges would probably cause you not to dodge if you lock-on, since you need a bit of a walking start for some of those dodges. Worse if it is a Monoblos/Diablos/Crab charge (bigger range, needs faster reaction time and to listen for cues).


Also, swimming in monster hunter tri is controlled by the camera. If you lock onto one of the few swimming mosnters and GOT CLOSE, oh god it'll be beautiful to read that scrub-wipe.

"hurr lock-on got me too close i died argh hate lock-on" whoops full circle. :wacko: Large percentage of your deaths in game cannot be prevented by a lock-on camera either. because locking on does not give a dose of skill.

Also, the Monster Hunter vets who actually play the game beyond the first three missions out number you on your opinions. Go on Capcom-Unity forum, go to the Monster Hunter section, and post a thread about lock-on and get laughed straight out of the forum.

There is no argument here because you DON'T understand how Monster Hunter works. There is no lock-on because it works better without it. No camera wigging out, no losing track of the monster, no deaths because of camera, no problem. Also, there are missions where you have to fight two monsters at the same time, three monsters (online only, usually). You know what kind of nightmare a lock on camera would be then?

Oh yeah, totally want to sift through FIFTY FREAKIN TARGET POITNS TO GET THE ONE I WANT but hey lock-on is here~~~ bring on the booze, we'll never win now~~~

[HAYABUSA-FMW-]

Figured they might have added some shortcut lock on feature to the PSP games, just due to the console itself having less buttons/(real) analog sticks, but they didn't. Combat isn't easy mode zerg rush down everything - with fighting multiple enemies so I could see why there wasn't a lock on. Forgot if there was strafe. Game is big and full featured enough for a console, from that older, last release PSP demo.

(Where my character/weapon choices were working on everything but this big hermit crab in the desert.)

[Zeek123]

MH is not an MMO, go elsewhere.

Not an MMO? It has a central hub, where you can meet strangers and friends... What would you call it then?

Those videos wouldn't work for me, but I still don't see how it'd be a problem. And saying the game isn't interesting until a few hours in is another issue entirely. Why would you have to sift through hit boxes anyway? Make a centralized area for lock-on and go... Like in PSU.


Has an insta-KO mouth beam with a huge range. You have to listen for the tell on that one. Lock-on ain't gonna tell you to dodge, will it? Nor will it let you, as you get hit by the scrub-cannon.

It wouldn't stop you from hearing it either :-?



I have no intention of going to a CapcoAlso, the Monster Hunter vets who actually play the game beyond the first three missions out number you on your opinions. Go on Capcom-Unity forum, go to the Monster Hunter section, and post a thread about lock-on and get laughed straight out of the forum.

I have no intention of going to a site filled with rabid fanbois that think ample changes means death to their game. No thank you.

Look, you love the game, great. I'm glad you didn't waste your money. Why not just add some features so others can share the experience?

[HAYABUSA-FMW-]

Why would you have to sift through hit boxes anyway? Make a centralized area for lock-on and go... Like in PSU.

PSU enemies aren't so dynamic, with full screen trampling charges, by non bosses. (and the hitboxes are terrible)

And if there are certain areas you have to hit, or decide trial and error, what's a weaker armored point, you will have to cycle through several lock on areas.

Just making it one is an easy mode combat, shiny red part of the boss, that is the only lock on part. Monster Hunter is not an easy of a game as PSU. "Attack the enemy, from behind!" Bigger in game joke about that being advice than actual good gameplay cues.

-

They could do an onscreen indicator, in the PSO/PSZ vein, but boy would it have to be big and not some tiny 3 arrow inward pointing thing that would get lost inside a rendered model. (PSO/especially PSZ ones could have been better/bigger)

[Niered]

I can disprove the "too big to lock on" argument with one game: Demon's Souls.

Big bosses (Tower Knight, Storm King, Dragon God, Armor Spider) that are fast and attempt to outmaneuver the player (Flamelurker, Maneater, Old Hero). And hey! Most bosses even HAVE multiple weakpoints, that are as easy to retarget as a flick of the camera stick. Funny thing though, your right, in some of those fights (keyword: some) the lock on is ill-advised. If you try fighting Tower Knight with the lock on, you'll just stare at his shield most of the fight, since he constantly tries to be facing you. In this case, yes, deactivating the lock on and flanking him the old fashioned way is a valid strategy.

But the lock on is still there, and its invaluable.

Now, once again, I am at a disadvantage when it comes to this seeing how I've only played MH on a friends PS2 some time ago. But I constantly hear in these threads the problem of not having a lock on, and I think that Demon's Souls shows how you can make it both functional while still forcing the player to play the game.

[Chuck_Norris]

Why not just add some features so others can share the experience?

Because such a stupid addition would ruin the game for vets. It wouldn't help the newbies either, as mentioned already. It would just cause the camera to freak out if you were under or right next to a monster.

ONE hit point? You fool! Part of MH is figuring out the best spot TO hit the monster! Certain points take more damage, some break off if you hit them enough, yielding better loot, and some spots are safer to hit from. If there was only one target, all that strategy would be thrown out the window. Monsters commonly have 10+ hit points. The bigger ones (Like Lao Shan) have around 20. Do you realize how retarded and helpless you'd be, switching between 20 targets? You'd be dead by the time you got your lock on.

You sound like the scrubs over on the Aion forum begging NCsoft to give them Addons like in WoW so that they don't have to think.

Edit: Oh yeah, the reason I came back to this thread.
I got my demo disc of MH Tri from Gamestop earlier today. I didn't have it preordered, and they didn't give me any flak. Maybe Capcom had a talk with them?

[Niered]

Like I said in my earlier post, lock on=/=broken game. Not even when you add fast enemies, big enemies, or multiple targetable points that have different effects. Demon's Souls did every one of those, and I'd venture to say that other games have as well.

[Zeek123]

PSU enemies aren't so dynamic, with full screen trampling charges, by non bosses. (and the hitboxes are terrible)

And if there are certain areas you have to hit, or decide trial and error, what's a weaker armored point, you will have to cycle through several lock on areas.

Just making it one is an easy mode combat, shiny red part of the boss, that is the only lock on part. Monster Hunter is not an easy of a game as PSU. "Attack the enemy, from behind!" Bigger in game joke about that being advice than actual good gameplay cues.

-

They could do an onscreen indicator, in the PSO/PSZ vein, but boy would it have to be big and not some tiny 3 arrow inward pointing thing that would get lost inside a rendered model. (PSO/especially PSZ ones could have been better/bigger)

True, they are terrible. Sorry, I couldn't think of any better comparisons. I think the game could retain its difficulty, with or without the lock-on. And again, there'd always be the option not to use lock-on... as it's been said.

So...


"hurr lock-on got me too close i died argh hate lock-on"

...would really be the player's fault entirely for using it when the need didn't arise.

Because we also know...


locking on does not give a dose of skill.

And my brain would implode from...


...missions where you have to fight two monsters at the same time...You know what kind of nightmare a lock on camera would be then

I hope Capcom makes the same game for years to come.

[Outrider]

Yeah, pretty much every example that's been brought up was dealt with in Kingdom Hearts eight years ago (and improved greatly in KH2.)

Obviously the game is a bit faster-paced than Monster Hunter, but it dealt with large bosses with multiple key hit points with dynamic lock-on based on yours and the camera's position. It even did swimming/flying battles (to varying degrees of success.)

We're not talking the 1998 Zelda lock-on in which your character slows down, shifts move types, and is always facing the same direction. We're talking something a bit more dynamic and flexible.

I can understand that there are many fans of the game who like it how it plays right now, but to reuse the Resident Evil comparison - Monster Hunter needs its Resident Evil 4.

And I get it, I really do. I'm an old Resident Evil fan and I would go day one to buy a new RE game that used the classic tank controls because I miss those kinds of games, as clunky as they were. But I also accept that my preferences and good game design aren't always the same thing.

But anyway - I'd like to say that the first video with the giant walking dinosaur was pretty awesome. I'd been looking for good videos of the massive bosses from Monster Hunter and that totally scratched that itch.

[amtalx]

Monster Hunter needs its Resident Evil 4.

+100 moonbucks for this.

Classic RE controls were shit, even for their day. RE4 made the franchise better. Of course, the purist whined and moaned that RE was loosing its identity, but honestly...they needed to STFU and embrace a clearly superior system. MH appears to be marching down the same road.

[Outrider]

+100 moonbucks for this.

Classic RE controls were shit, even for their day. RE4 made the franchise better. Of course, the purist whined and moaned that RE was loosing its identity, but honestly...they needed to STFU and embrace a clearly superior system. MH appears to be marching down the same road.

Well, like I said - if you're willing to sacrifice good controls for a unique type of game - the old RE games are still enjoyable.

But I agree that RE4 definitely made RE better from a gameplay perspective.

I think we agree on the main point, but I just wanted to clarify my stance.

[Chuck_Norris]

The Monster Hunter series has always been about realistic combat. What if you were actually fighting a bull 20 feet tall? You probably wouldn't be able to take more than a few hits from it. You can't just lock on to something in real life. The MH series has always been unique in it's difficulty, and I assure you, just making it a PSU would not only not bring in new fans, but it would piss off the old ones and push them away. What if they put auto targeting in Uncharted? Or the next Sly Cooper game? It just doesn't fit.

On the note of Resident Evil, when exactly did RE stop being scary? Oh yeah, when it got good controls. Same goes for Silent Hill.

[Zeek123]

The Monster Hunter series has always been about realistic combat. What if you were actually fighting a bull 20 feet tall? You probably wouldn't be able to take more than a few hits from it. You can't just lock on to something in real life. The MH series has always been unique in it's difficulty, and I assure you, just making it a PSU would not only not bring in new fans, but it would piss off the old ones and push them away. What if they put auto targeting in Uncharted? Or the next Sly Cooper game? It just doesn't fit.

On the note of Resident Evil, when exactly did RE stop being scary? Oh yeah, when it got good controls. Same goes for Silent Hill.

Well... comparing an RPG to a 3rd person shooter isn't really fair, but whatever. I'm kind of done with this topic. If you don't want it, you don't want it.

And uh... you bet your ass I'll be fixated on that bull.

[amtalx]

...realistic combat...What if you were actually fighting a bull 20 feet tall...

So close...yet so far.

And RE was never scary. A false sense of urgency drummed up by grossly inadequate controls is not fear. It's dread as a result of the combination of developers putting you in a situation in which you are poorly equipped to escape, and the consequences of failure due to an exceptionally terrible save system.

[Chuck_Norris]

So close...yet so far.

Take that how you will, but in MH you do get a feeling of fighting something that's far stronger than you, and you need to use your wits to defeat it.

Perhaps realistic was a poor choice of words, but it does feel like that's what its trying to do. Trying to give an accuracy simulation of fighting a giant beast while wearing heavy armor and using heavy, slow weapons. The animations are very realistic, and reaction time is just as important as predictions on what the monster is going to do.

[Niered]

And once again this argument can be destroyed with Demon's Souls.

Realistic weapon wielding animations? Yes. Do you always feel like the enemies have the upperhand? Yup. Using your superior knowledge to take them down? Absolutely. Every one of those things is in Demons Souls, and that game still has a lock on.

And the idea that "lock on" doesn't exist in real life is silly. Of course it does, why wouldn't you always face your foe in combat? Unless youre running away in fear of course. I would argue that the lack of a lock on is actually unrealistic, it creates a false sense of difficulty.

[amtalx]

Demon's Souls doing MH better than MH? I'd need to play Demon's Souls first.

That reminds me of how I feel about Dead Space: making RE look stupid in the genre that it created.

[Volcompat321]

I don't see Demon's Souls as a good comparison to Monster Hunter.
While they may be the closest thing to each other, they are both really it's own game.

I love Demon's Souls and Monster Hunter.

[Niered]

I don't see Demon's Souls as a good comparison to Monster Hunter.
While they may be the closest thing to each other, they are both really it's own game.


No, its completely valid. The argument was that there was no way that a lock on would work with big,fast, multi-targetable enemies, and I showed via example that thats not the case, because Demon's Souls does all of those, and still manages to be as hard, if not harder than Monster Hunter. This means that the "No-Lock on" argument is pretty easily invalidated.

[Chuck_Norris]

And the idea that "lock on" doesn't exist in real life is silly. Of course it does, why wouldn't you always face your foe in combat? Unless youre running away in fear of course. I would argue that the lack of a lock on is actually unrealistic, it creates a false sense of difficulty.

Do you have eyes on the back of your head or something? If you are facing away from something, you obviously can't see it. A lock on would reprisent being able to see anything from any angle no matter what, which is physically impossible.

Stupid arguments aside, a lock-on feature would simply alienate Capcom's loyal audience. They would feel that they're dumbing their game down, and it really wouldn't help bring in more people any more than it does now. If you look at a game box, and it reads "Now with new lock-on ability!" does that seal your purchase? It's not something that's gonna make millions of newbies rush out to buy it.

[Volcompat321]

No, its completely valid. The argument was that there was no way that a lock on would work with big,fast, multi-targetable enemies, and I showed via example that thats not the case, because Demon's Souls does all of those, and still manages to be as hard, if not harder than Monster Hunter. This means that the "No-Lock on" argument is pretty easily invalidated.


Not really.

It's a different playstyle than Monster Hunter.

Yes, Demon's Souls has huge monsters, and has big swords/bows and whatnot, but it's not the same at all.

Have you played either of them for a good amount of time?
You'd know the way Demon's Souls plays is different.

I've had many occasions in Demon's Souls where I'd be locked on and get killed because of it.
The only time I've had an easy time with the lock on (which is in an awkward place to be; being a click in the joystick) is when I used a bow, or magic.

Lock on in Demon's Souls is not good for melee, mainly because it's easy to jump into what you're trying to kill.
Though the game does try to eliminate that factor, by letting you control where you jump(direction) but it doesn't help much.
But maybe that was just a problem with me. I'd jump into (while thinking I hit the opposite direction) the Flame Lurker in particular.
I will say though, the second stick as a camera control is great.

[Niered]

Your argument is that comparing 2 games in the same genre is not a valid comparison.

That is, for lack of anything better to say, ignorant. With that in mind I can't compare/contrast Metroid to Castlevania, or Doom with Wolfenstein, or King of Fighters with Blazblue. Like it or not, the best way of judging a games merits is by comparing it to its peers, just like in any other Media.

As for your argument against lock on in Demon's Souls, I pretty much agreed with that in an earlier post I made, stating that the Lock-On is sort of situational, 99% of the time its useful, but there are times that using it works against you. But its still there, and I still use it even after putting in over 100 hours.

Although Ive never heard anyone complain about the dodge roll behaving badly, its pretty intuitive.

[amtalx]

Do you have eyes on the back of your head or something? If you are facing away from something, you obviously can't see it. A lock on would reprisent being able to see anything from any angle no matter what, which is physically impossible.

People have these crazy things called necks. I'm not sure, but I think it's pretty common for humans to use them to track moving objects without having to move their entire body.

/ridiculous

[Chuck_Norris]

People have these crazy things called necks. I'm not sure, but I think it's pretty common for humans to use them to track moving objects without having to move their entire body.

/ridiculous

A human neck can't turn 180 degrees.

The human sight is not absolute. If you were to watch a fly go though your house, while you yourself run around in the opposite direction, you're going to lose sight of the fly. You can't magically keep focus on one moving object perfectly for an infinite amount of time regardless of situations and environments. It's just not humanly possible.

Lemme give you another example. You're in a desert. A sand storm starts up, and you need to keep track of something off in the distance. Are you going to be able to see through this wall of sand? No. You can't see fucking anything. Hell, most games with lock ons let you see things THROUGH ACTUAL BRICK WALLS.

MH is a fun game as it is, and it doesn't need to be dumbed down by a needless system that won't even be used by the veterans. It'd be a waste of resources at best.

[amtalx]

Ok, this is crossing into the realm of exceptionally stupid. Assuming you can move your eyes too, you only need to turn your head about 90º to see behind you. If this uncanny human chooses to use their back, they've got roughly 360º of capable vision. Although this is all pointless since this game uses a 3rd person camera, which utterly destroys the basis of the entire reality argument. Unless of course astral projection is among your list of talents.

That's enough of that though. Terrible argument to begin with.

[pikachief]

i really really wanna like this game. i was so sure i was gonna love it i was going to pre-order it which i usually never do :P

Im gonna try it again. and i know my problems is the camera controlls cuz i've played plenty of games with giant monsters and the cameras havent bothered me in those :P

*goes to re-try*

[LavisFiend]

Perhaps realistic was a poor choice of words, but it does feel like that's what its trying to do. Trying to give an accuracy simulation of fighting a giant beast while wearing heavy armor and using heavy, slow weapons. The animations are very realistic.

If you acknowledge that realistic is a poor word choice, then why do you say, straight faced, that the animations are very realistic?

Ever tried to swing a 200 lb axe that's as tall as a human? Spoiler alert: No you haven't. The ONLY weapons in that game that are "realistic" are sword and shield, and MAYBE the light crossbow.

I get what you are TRYING to say, but using realism PERIOD as the reasoning is absolutely poor, and should just be omitted altogether. This even includes comparing lock on to realistic scenarios. Just drop it altogether with realism.

The game uses superhuman physics if anything else.

[Jife_Jifremok]

At best, lock-on eliminates most of the skill involved in playing a game. At worst, it makes the game a lot harder by fucking up the controls enough that manual would always be better even in the hands of unskilled players (like those who rely heavily on lock-on to begin with).

Demon's Souls? That game had lock-on, but it was so unobtrusive that I don't even remember how to lock on to enemies. The controls (in melee combat, at least) were truly excellent and never forced lock-on for any reason. However, DS is an exception. Most games with lock-on (that I've seen, at least) have it there as a crutch to cover for broken controls and shitty camera, sometimes even forcing it upon the player. Zelda, Metroid Prime (GC), I'd mention more if I could remember them better.

Now back to Monster Hunter. I, much like the rest of the loyal MH fanbase, would rather not hunt with dipshits who can't hit the broad side of a 5-times-larger-than-you monster without some magical fairy camera keeping track of it for them. Considering that three deaths in the party equals quest failure, skilled hunters would rather not put 20-30 minutes into a high-end quest only to fail just because one of their partners has no basic skills and/or was too busy dicking around with target selection to notice what's going on around them.

Also, killing things without lock-on is actually a lot simpler: You look at what you want to strike, and you direct your attack at it. As long as you don't suck at the very basics of gameplay, there should be no need to complicate matters with a lousy crutch.

As for MH "needing its RE4": MH is already its own RE4. RE1 was the game with the shitty camera and auto-aim and RE4 was the game with the good camera and manual aim.

[Zeek123]

At best, lock-on eliminates most of the skill involved in playing a game. At worst, it makes the game a lot harder by fucking up the controls enough that manual would always be better even in the hands of unskilled players (like those who rely heavily on lock-on to begin with).

Demon's Souls? That game had lock-on, but it was so unobtrusive that I don't even remember how to lock on to enemies. The controls (in melee combat, at least) were truly excellent and never forced lock-on for any reason. However, DS is an exception. Most games with lock-on (that I've seen, at least) have it there as a crutch to cover for broken controls and shitty camera, sometimes even forcing it upon the player. Zelda, Metroid Prime (GC), I'd mention more if I could remember them better.

Now back to Monster Hunter. I, much like the rest of the loyal MH fanbase, would rather not hunt with dipshits who can't hit the broad side of a 5-times-larger-than-you monster without some magical fairy camera keeping track of it for them. Considering that three deaths in the party equals quest failure, skilled hunters would rather not put 20-30 minutes into a high-end quest only to fail just because one of their partners has no basic skills and/or was too busy dicking around with target selection to notice what's going on around them.

Also, killing things without lock-on is actually a lot simpler: You look at what you want to strike, and you direct your attack at it. As long as you don't suck at the very basics of gameplay, there should be no need to complicate matters with a lousy crutch.

As for MH "needing its RE4": MH is already its own RE4. RE1 was the game with the shitty camera and auto-aim and RE4 was the game with the good camera and manual aim.

So you're calling the camera controls in the series good?

From what you posted, it kinda seems like you think Demon's Souls has had the only workable camera in 10+ years. Yes, Ocarina of Time had lock-on to compensate for the N64's clunky controller, that was how long ago? I never had a problem controlling any Metroid Prime game, especially the first two. Frankly, MP was the first FPS I could get into, because it had lock-on. The genre was new to me, and I hated previous FPS because I just couldn't get used to it.

It seems everyone believes that lock-on would be a deal-breaker because it would fixate the character to the monster/part they're locked-on to, but that's not necessarily the case. Developers have come a long way in the past 20 years, and have made games where you won't default to face directly at the target, and you don't strafe side-to-side for movement.

Like Outrider mentioned, Kingdom Hearts showed us that you could have the lock-on, and still have free-roam.

If it's an on/off function, what exactly are you worried about? I think all the "veterans" are letting their elitism cloud something that's not such a huge deal in the first place.

[LavisFiend]

I said it before but I guess I will say it again:

Adjust the camera turn speed, or give an option for slow, medium, fast. This would destroy the mentality of needing a lock on for newer players. Vets may be used to the turn speed, new people are not. New people could benefit from the option.

Get rid of that lousy loading screen nonsense in every single section.

Actually make it obvious that you are attacking the weak point as opposed to having to hit a particular point a handful of times before it finally is shown you are hurting the damn thing.

and please, for the love of god, allow people to change the controls.

That is all, and the game would be perfect.