Hmm... A Joke Originally, But Actually a Cool Idea

[Seth Astra]

In last month's issue of Nintendo Power, people sent in their answers to what would make 2010 the best year for gaming. Someone sent in a joke about the nintendo holodeck coming out. Although this was certainly a joke, it would actually turn out pretty cool. Imagine, Legend of Zelda Holodeck or Metroid Holodeck. And here's something that I'm certain will go over well on this site: Phantasy Star Online Holodeck. Imagine, a full simulation of the entirity of pioneer 2, and when you go down to ragol, you'd actually go blade to claw with hostiles. Well, what do you guys think? I'd definately like this if it was done right. Of course there's size issues, and also the guarenteably high cost, but the idea itself is pretty cool.

[amtalx]

No thanks. I usually play games to relax and be entertained. I have zero desire to jump around swinging an imaginary sword.

[Kent]

Nintendo would find a way to strip all of the potential fun out of it with Mario Kart Syndrome and Friend Codes.

[Split]

No thanks. I usually play games to relax and be entertained. I have zero desire to jump around swinging an imaginary sword.Don't really know what "holodeck" means or if it's even a real word, but I assume we're talking about VR here...if they could make it so you could jump really high and feel no pain and never get tired like most video game characters when your mind is transported into this imaginary space, I think it could still be relaxing. But only if it was just as effortless as using a controller.

[joefro]

Sounds like Project Natal.

[Retehi]

What ever happened to just sitting down with a controller, and thats it?

Concepts like this suck.

[SpikeOtacon]

VR died with the 90s and the movie "First Kid (http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0116311/)", let's keep it that way.

[Seth Astra]

So basically no one likes this?

[Kyrith_Ranger_Pso]

no i think im good with using a controller cuz for one thing, how could u move around in vr if theres stuff in the room ur in +im spike otocan in saying i dont wanna get tired while playing video games altho it could be cool if it didnt let u get hurt and u had a large area to move around in

[Seth Astra]

Umm... The limited space thing wasn't explained in any episode of star trek that I watched, so I don't really know. The exhaustion thing might not work, but this is working on teoretical sci-fi technology, so you wouldn't get tired I'm assuming. Also, I think that when you'd get injured you'd look like you had taken the blow, and you'd feel some pain, but it wouldn't hurt nearly as much as it would in real life, and when you step out of the holodeck you'd be better.

[Alnet]

What ever happened to just sitting down with a controller, and thats it?

Concepts like this suck.
I'm gonna go with this. Even the minor variations on this tend to have iffy results at best (Wii shovelware) to abysmal at worst (Virtual Boy). And no matter how many people tell me that Project Natal is going to destroy Wii and PS3 and start a new generation of gaming, I just can't take it seriously.


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=B2r9cKjNQe4

Assuming "holodeck" is the same concept as this (I've honestly never heard this word prior to this thread), I don't think it'll go very far.

[HeartBreak301]

The term holodeck is used in Star Trek, its what they call their VR room.

[Seth Astra]

HeartBreak, thanks for clarifying that for everyone.

[HeartBreak301]

I kinda thought it was common knowledge, I guess not.

[Kyrith_Ranger_Pso]

how does natal work? if ur playing most games u need to move and if u have no controller how do u do?

[Outrider]

I kinda thought it was common knowledge, I guess not.

Yeah, I've seen like two and a half episodes of Star Trek in my entire life and even I know what a holodeck is.

I see it as a failing of our schools.

Here, from the YouTubes:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bO7wE8snf2E

[Palle]

Ugh, Barclay episode.

Oh, topic? Um... what's that thing called on Caprica, where everyone rapes, tortures, and murders one another? That's what I think would happen with holodeck gaming. At least in the US.

[Outrider]

Oh, topic? Um... what's that thing called on Caprica, where everyone rapes, tortures, and murders one another?

Playstation Home?

http://art.penny-arcade.com/photos/435088716_9MqAz-L-2.jpg

[Nitro Vordex]

The last thing I want is a virus in my goddamn reality.

[Niered]

Actually, when nintendo was hyping the wii, before anyone knew what it was, there was a guy that fooled some folks by making a fake promotional video for a virtual reality helmet that he claimed was the then named "Revolution".



http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zX2smM87r14

Fooled a good chunk of folks too, thing that instantly invalidated it for me were the shitty character redesigns. Looks like Samus and Mario were thrown on a stretching rack.

[HeartBreak301]

Wow, for a fake that actually has surprisingly good quality. I wasn't expecting that.

[Tomeeboy]

I'm gonna go with this. Even the minor variations on this tend to have iffy results at best (Wii shovelware) to abysmal at worst (Virtual Boy). And no matter how many people tell me that Project Natal is going to destroy Wii and PS3 and start a new generation of gaming, I just can't take it seriously.

I'm with you on that one. Natal and the PS3 motion controller (Move, or whatever it's called now) really just strike me as gimmicks trying to cash in on the Wii's success. I'll give them a fair look-over when they get released, but I'm keeping my expectations REALLY low. I think Nintendo did it right by building the Wii around the motion controls.

I also never care to see another corny promotional video featuring that family. If everyone was that easy to entertain, people wouldn't need to buy these peripherals; they'd just be rebooting their consoles and laughing their asses off at the loading screens :D

[Vanzazikon]

I kinda thought it was common knowledge, I guess not.You seriously thought everyone watched Star Trek? :disapprove:

[Nitro Vordex]

Everyone should know what a VR is, or at least the concept of it. Otherwise, they're ridiculously sheltered.

AND YOU CALL YOURSELVES GAMERS.

[Niered]

I'm with you on that one. Natal and the PS3 motion controller (Move, or whatever it's called now) really just strike me as gimmicks trying to cash in on the Wii's success. I'll give them a fair look-over when they get released, but I'm keeping my expectations REALLY low. I think Nintendo did it right by building the Wii around the motion controls.

I also never care to see another corny promotional video featuring that family. If everyone was that easy to entertain, people wouldn't need to buy these peripherals; they'd just be rebooting their consoles and laughing their asses off at the loading screens :D

Natal won't ever replace controllers, thats for sure, but coming from a PS3 owner, it will destroy the Move. The Move is no better a shitty cash in then the sixaxis, trying to trail the Wii, at least Microsoft expanded on the base idea, they didn't shamelessly rip it off.

[HAYABUSA-FMW-]

You seriously thought everyone watched Star Trek? :disapprove:
I remember the term from Futurama. Moon fell on Kipf, later plugged the vacuum seal hole. Unless they called it just something different enough, and I'm pretty sure I misspelled green dude's name.

PSO type of Holodeck

Means if I pick FOrce / Afro Hair / (Beast) Newman (Ears & potential butt flap shirt), I actually have to wear that on my on person - to be viewed by others? Well it won't be as bad as the speedo selection dudes, but there goes your "immersion."

[Zeek123]

Natal won't ever replace controllers, thats for sure, but coming from a PS3 owner, it will destroy the Move. The Move is no better a shitty cash in then the sixaxis, trying to trail the Wii, at least Microsoft expanded on the base idea, they didn't shamelessly rip it off.

I disagree. I think they'll both fail hard. At least, I hope they do.

I felt dumb enough playing the Wii... I don't want to think about standing up and actually flailing around for Natal. At least with Sony thus far, they've been assuring us that the "hardcore games" will support both Move and the Dualshock 3. I'm sure there will be good games for each gimmick on every system, but I want this whole motion thing to taper off. (Personally)

I wanna sit down with a controller and relax into a game. If motion control is the future, I might be a PC gamer.

[HAYABUSA-FMW-]

I disagree. I think they'll both fail hard. At least, I hope they do.

I felt dumb enough playing the Wii... I don't want to think about standing up and actually flailing around for Natal. At least with Sony thus far, they've been assuring us that the "hardcore games" will support both Move and the Dualshock 3. I'm sure there will be good games for each gimmick on every system, but I want this whole motion thing to taper off. (Personally)

I wanna sit down with a controller and relax into a game. If motion control is the future, I might be a PC gamer.
Parallel to this conversation, you have a topic about No More Heroes - where its acclaimed by your fellow PSOW'ers that it definitely was a great use of motion controls.

So there are times its done well enough, for the "hardcore," or old timey gamers who have seen it all but still don't want change.

They just need to have such "killer-apps" or creative developers getting their hands on the tech, putting it to good use. I haven't kept up but I don't think I've missed out much on what Natal and Move are going to do.

[Zeek123]

Parallel to this conversation, you have a topic about No More Heroes - where its acclaimed by your fellow PSOW'ers that it definitely was a great use of motion controls.

So there are times its done well enough, for the "hardcore," or old timey gamers who have seen it all but still don't want change.

They just need to have such "killer-apps" or creative developers getting their hands on the tech, putting it to good use. I haven't kept up but I don't think I've missed out much on what Natal and Move are going to do.

Yeah. I'm not doubting NMH is probably a good game. And apparently they're adopting Heavy Rain for the Move and MediaMolecule might be making a LittleBigPlanet for it. So there will be decent, if not great games for Natal and Move. It's just not enough to make me interested in buying one. Especially so long after the Wii's release and motion control has lost it's "new thing" appeal.

I'm not saying motion control is the worst thing ever, it's just that the crowds Sony and Microsoft are appealing to, would be much more interested in shovelware.

Everything's a gimmick until it's used properly.

[Outrider]

I wanna sit down with a controller and relax into a game. If motion control is the future, I might be a PC gamer.

Obviously depends on the specific games you're playing, but for the most part if you're playing any of the better Wii games and you're not able to relax like you're just holding a controller, you're very clearly doing it wrong.

[astuarlen]

Ok, I will be the uncool kid who isn't afraid to "look dumb" or whatever and cop to thinking the idea of Holodeck-style VR sounds incredible. I spend enough time sitting on my butt all day; getting a chance to move around and explore an immersive fictional scenario would be the bee's knees. I speak purely from the point of theory and not based on current technology (omg wii sucks this will suck too), given its rapid and not-entirely-predictable progression. I kind of wonder why motion controls get slapped with the gimmick or fad label; yes, they are not always well implemented, but it seems silly to move from specific instances to generalities.
You may now proceed to tell me why I'm Wrong on the Internet.

2025: sippin' mai tais with Picard on the lanai, baby.

[Kent]

how does natal work?
Basically, the Natal accessory (kinda like the Wii's sensor bar in how you place it) detects everything in front of it and how far away these things are (similar to a laser rangefinding array, but compact and short-ranged enough to be placed in a household), and is able to pick out human figures from other sorts of objects, and ties each of these human figures to a specific player. From that point, it's pretty much speficied by the game itself what it does with that information.

[Kyrith_Ranger_Pso]

so how do u walk around in it?

[Outrider]

so how do u walk around in it?

With your feet.

[Weeaboolits]

Isn't the Natal just a glorified Eye Toy? I don't see it amounting to much more, though who knows, maybe someone will manage to put it to better use than just "pop the bubbles".

[Seth Astra]

Ok, I will be the uncool kid who isn't afraid to "look dumb" or whatever and cop to thinking the idea of Holodeck-style VR sounds incredible. I spend enough time sitting on my butt all day; getting a chance to move around and explore an immersive fictional scenario would be the bee's knees. I speak purely from the point of theory and not based on current technology (omg wii sucks this will suck too), given its rapid and not-entirely-predictable progression. I kind of wonder why motion controls get slapped with the gimmick or fad label; yes, they are not always well implemented, but it seems silly to move from specific instances to generalities.
You may now proceed to tell me why I'm Wrong on the Internet.

2025: sippin' mai tais with Picard on the lanai, baby.
Yay, someone else who thinks this wouldn't suck.

[Kyrith_Ranger_Pso]

With your feet.

then how do u play games other than minigames and stuff like wii sports? that require u to run and stuff like that?

[amtalx]

then how do u play games other than minigames and stuff like wii sports? that require u to run and stuff like that?

Complex games will just use a controller. Natal is an option, not a requirement. It's not like the Wii where it's 'motion controls or gtfo'.

[Weeaboolits]

Complex games will just use a controller. Natal is an option, not a requirement. It's not like the Wii where it's 'motion controls or gtfo'.So the classic controller doesn't exist then?

[amtalx]

So the classic controller doesn't exist then?

I'm not denying it's existence, but its a secondary option, and frankly an afterthought by Nintendo. The Wii's strength and selling point are its motion controls. Anything that doesn't use those strengths is better suited on another platform.

[Zeek123]

Obviously depends on the specific games you're playing, but for the most part if you're playing any of the better Wii games and you're not able to relax like you're just holding a controller, you're very clearly doing it wrong.

Flicking the wrist you mean, right? Yeah, I figured that out after a few games of Wii Tennis. And the boxing just fidgeting your hands around to block and defend. It just feels... stupid. But have you ever played Wii Sports or something with family/friends? You can't be anywhere near them or they'll punch your trying to hit a forehand ^^;

The whole "flailing around" part was mostly directed toward the Natal, where you're supposed to stand in front of your TV. Or sit in a chair and pretend like you're driving a car.

I loved Super Mario Galaxy, and Metroid Prime 3 had some awesome controls and uses with the gesture stuff, but good Wii games have been few and far between. And almost all of them have been 1st party titles.

[Nitro Vordex]

Can you imagine the VR getting a virus or a bug in it? Your Sword of Asskicking +2 turns into a Stick of Firemaking -2.

Or, even better, the flames from the Dragon in the Forest actually hurt.

[Outrider]

then how do u play games other than minigames and stuff like wii sports? that require u to run and stuff like that?

With your feet.


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jNWLtV2VrVw

Like a normal person.


I'm not denying it's existence, but its a secondary option, and frankly an afterthought by Nintendo. The Wii's strength and selling point are its motion controls. Anything that doesn't use those strengths is better suited on another platform.

Are you including pointer controls when you mention motion controls? There are a couple of games that either don't focus on motion or simply ignore it all together but manage to pull in the pointer with real success.

Super Paper Mario had a really clever use for the pointer, and I'll begrudgingly admit that Team Ninja's use of the pointer in Metroid Other M seems like it could be neat.


Flicking the wrist you mean, right? Yeah, I figured that out after a few games of Wii Tennis. And the boxing just fidgeting your hands around to block and defend. It just feels... stupid. But have you ever played Wii Sports or something with family/friends? You can't be anywhere near them or they'll punch your trying to hit a forehand ^^;

The whole "flailing around" part was mostly directed toward the Natal, where you're supposed to stand in front of your TV. Or sit in a chair and pretend like you're driving a car.

I loved Super Mario Galaxy, and Metroid Prime 3 had some awesome controls and uses with the gesture stuff, but good Wii games have been few and far between. And almost all of them have been 1st party titles.

No, I'm not really talking about Wii Sports. That game doesn't quite make sense if you're just flicking your wrist. The disconnect is too strong for me. That's one of those games where you should stand up and go through the motions. But even with that additional movement, I don't know anybody who's gotten tired or been unable to relax while playing Wii Tennis or Bowling.

But still, that's different from sitting with a controller. I'm not denying that.

My point was more focused on the non sports/fitness/party games, such as the majority of Nintendo's character-driven games, No More Heroes, or Okami.

As for feeling stupid, I'm not quite sure what to say about that. Sorry?

[amtalx]

Are you including pointer controls when you mention motion controls? There are a couple of games that either don't focus on motion or simply ignore it all together but manage to pull in the pointer with real success.

Oh yes, I would consider anything using the pointer and/or the accelerometer a good use of the Wii's strengths, as no other console can do it well at the moment. However, it's a complete waste if a game uses the sideways Wiimote setup the entire time (or Classic Controller). Those games belong on 360 or PS3.

[Kent]

then how do u play games other than minigames and stuff like wii sports? that require u to run and stuff like that?
It depends on how the developers make the game.

Really.

It's probably not going to be some standardized thing unless someone comes up with a really good way of handling it - just like every convention in games ever.

Isn't the Natal just a glorified Eye Toy?
Not necessarily - it's far more advanced on a technological level. The EyeToy was just a camera, and the games that used it were just programmed with some basic pattern-recognition and/or movement detection software. That's still pretty different from how Natal actually works.

[Chukie sue]

Simply put, I think it would be fun.

[Shinato]

Nintendo would find a way to strip all of the potential fun out of it with Mario Kart Syndrome and Friend Codes.

i lol'd.

[amtalx]

Now that the news is out, Descent on WiiWare is an excellent example of solid use of motion controls. Descent was a brilliant game, but grasping the controls was always a bear. I remember the numpad acrobatics required to move around without smashing into everything. Assuming they can tweak the controls just right, using the Wii control scheme might actually be superior to a standard controller.