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View Full Version : US/S.Korea Allied "defining moment" N.Korea's Nuclear War threat again



HAYABUSA-FMW-
Jun 17, 2010, 02:52 AM
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http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20100617/ap_on_re_as/as_skorea_ship_sinks

US, SKorea express solidarity over ship sinking

By HYUNG-JIN KIM, Associated Press Writer Hyung-jin Kim, Associated Press Writer – 2 hrs 11 mins ago

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Tension is high on the Korean peninsula with North Korea warning any moves to punish it at the United Nations would mean armed conflict, possibly nuclear war.


Senior diplomats from the U.S. and South Korea met Thursday in Seoul and expressed their will to keep their alliance strong.

Ahead of another meeting later, Campbell and South Korean Vice Foreign Minister Chun Yung-woo both called the current situation a "defining moment" for the U.S.-South Korean alliance.

"We will demonstrate to the world how well our alliance works," Chun said.


Backed by the U.S. and other allies, South Korea has taken punitive measures against North Korea, including trade restrictions, after blaming it for torpedoing the warship Cheonan near their disputed sea border on March 26. The North reacted angrily, declaring it was cutting off ties with Seoul and threatening to attack.

South Korea has taken the issue to the U.N. Security Council, where both sides stated their case Monday over Seoul's request to punish Pyongyang over the sinking.

On Wednesday, North Korea urged the body to impartially handle the sinking, warning ongoing tension over the sinking could trigger nuclear war.

North Korea has threatened to use its atomic arsenal in previous tense moments with the outside world. While the country is believed to have enough weaponized plutonium for at least a half-dozen nuclear weapons, experts doubt it has the means to use a nuclear weapon in battle.

The threat came hours after the country's U.N. ambassador told reporters at a rare news conference Tuesday in New York that its military will respond if the Security Council questions or condemns the country over the sinking. Sin Son Ho, the envoy, repeated his regime's position that it had nothing to do with the sinking.

The Security Council said in a statement after the Monday presentations it is concerned the sinking could endanger peace on the peninsula, and it urged Seoul and Pyongyang to refrain from any provocative acts.

Surely more huffing and puffing. Or finding reason to rebel, not taking credit for the sunken ship:



South Korea and the U.S. have urged Pyongyang to avoid fresh provocations and vowed to hold the regime accountable for the March sinking that killed 46 South Korean sailors. North Korea vehemently denies any role.

But will "defend itself" although they're making the threat just on account of being accused of it?

And yes, there's news from their govt. top chain of command completely "salty" or "sour grapes" about the last N.Korea World Cup game loss. and yes, he's sorta been known to say he wanted to be a James Bond villain, with Team America:World Police stopmotion movie giving him that satisfaction, even in a satire/parody role he def didn't like 100% but certainly gave him some satisfaction in the history(of cinema) books.

Sinue_v2
Jun 17, 2010, 03:59 AM
I'm fairly sure that N. Korea is just saber rattling. While I don't doubt that Kim Jong would hesitate to use his nuclear weapons if he felt he was truly threatened, I doubt that he would be stupid or arrogant enough to use them wantonly. He has to know that, alliance with the US or no, any launch of a nuclear weapon against any nation in any hemisphere is likely going to bring nuclear retaliation from nearly every other nuclear armed nation at worst, and at best a full-on invasion and conquest. As I understand it, China's warming relations with the West through political and economic channels is dependent upon their cooperation with the rest of the world, and they're not going to jeopardize that for the sake of some stroking the ego of some narcissistic ideolog. This has already put a strain on their relationship with N. Korea, and being dumb enough to launch a nuke would not meet with Chinese support when the rest of the world comes after them. In fact, IIRC, China has already public stated that they would not aid "whomever sank the warship" should they be retaliated upon... basically calling out N. Korea as the perpetrators in all but name, and distancing themselves from the toxicity of their political ties with them.

As egotistical, eccentric, and narcissistic as Kim Jong may be, he has to know that he doesn't have the allies or the arsenal to counter an exchange, whether traditional campaign or nuclear. If he's going for a posthumous place in history, he has to know that his actions would destroy N. Korea - both physically and in the eyes of history. It would be leveled, invaded, and rebuilt by his enemies. Everything he seeks to protect and insulate his public from would come rushing through the floodgates of his defeat. Instead, it's better for him to maintain the status quo.. a balance between back-room cooperation and hardline aggressive rhetoric. To poke and prod his enemies enough that they appear to his people to be aggressive threats that he is protecting them from, but not poked enough to illicit any real retaliation that jeopardizes his rule. To this end, I think he's just using the Nuclear Card to cover up a bit too hard of a poke... betting that the rest of the world will overlook this provocation at the risk of a nuclear exchange, giving him a chance to back off. The danger being, to overlook this provocation sets a new bar of tolerance and emboldens him to poke harder next time.


Also, I'm surprised at how many people don't realize that the Korean War is still ongoing. There was never a peace treaty signed, only a cease-fire. While we're not actively engaged in hostilities there, the war will be entering it's 60th year in a few days, meaning that the "forgotten war" is technically the longest running war in US history.

Rubius-sama
Jun 17, 2010, 06:30 AM
Also, I'm surprised at how many people don't realize that the Korean War is still ongoing. There was never a peace treaty signed, only a cease-fire. While we're not actively engaged in hostilities there, the war will be entering it's 60th year in a few days, meaning that the "forgotten war" is technically the longest running war in US history.


I was at war with this kid in elementary school. We beat the shit out of each other every day until I left that school. Since we never signed a treaty stating that we won't go after each other anymore, technically we are still at war.. and it's the longest running war in my elementary school's history. He could be outside my window right now.. OH SHI- *ducks*

When people think of war, they don't think of two bitter factions carrying about their daily lives like everything's cool. They think of blood, murder, rape, pillaging, explosions, genocide, etc... so maybe that's why. Calling this Sunday drive "the longest running war" is mitigating the efforts of all those who lost their lives in bigger, more important wars.

Akaimizu
Jun 17, 2010, 06:50 AM
Well, if N. Korea actually intends to use Nuclear Weapons, then they obviously have no idea how nuclear weapons work. Particularly, if they're aimed at a next door neighbor. It's not safe to use them on anything that close, you might as well have half the weapons aimed at yourself. You'll accomplish the same thing. *Oh snap* I had no idea the fallout would come back at us!! (Not to mention the neighboring countries not even in the scuffle)

Sinue_v2
Jun 17, 2010, 07:09 AM
When people think of war, they don't think of two bitter factions carrying about their daily lives like everything's cool. They think of blood, murder, rape, pillaging, explosions, genocide, etc... so maybe that's why. Calling this Sunday drive "the longest running war" is mitigating the efforts of all those who lost their lives in bigger, more important wars.

Well then you need to go have a talk with the Dutch, because it was only 14 years ago that they signed a peace agreement with the Scilly Islands ending a three hundred and thirty five years of "open conflict" in a war in which not even a single shot was fired.

While popular concepts of what war should look like may run counter to what is technically correct, those technicalities can (and do) influence the way in which nations interact militarily and politically. For instance, resumption of military operations in N. Korea would not need congressional approval. Bush could have chosen to take out Pyongyang when Kim Jong first started bragging about his new toys, opened up a third active theater of engagement, and done so on his own without debate or consent of congress. How the hell do you think the American public, who doesn't know or care about the technicalities, would react to such a move? How do you think they'll react if shit goes south and Obama has to send in the troops?

Further, you do realize that not all hostilities have ceased, and American soldiers have lost their lives in DMZ conflicts well after the Armistice was signed. As if this latest incident weren't evidence of that sporadic skirmishes still continue, consider that the USS Pueblo is now in Pyongyang as a war museum piece after it was assaulted and captured in '68. The last US soldiers killed by the N. Korean military was in the mid-seventies.


"Second Korean War" - border skirmishes in the DMZ (http://www.military.com/NewsContent/0,13319,79954,00.html)


Oh, and a big "FUCK YOU" on behalf of all the veterans and dead soldiers of the Korean War who's sacrifice you just mitigated and brushed aside because they didn't have the opportunity to give their last full measure of devotion in a more "high profile" war.

Rubius-sama
Jun 17, 2010, 07:35 AM
Oh, and a big "FUCK YOU" on behalf of all the veterans, POWs, and those listed as casualties of the Korean War whose sacrifice you just mitigated and brushed aside because they didn't have the good fortune of giving their last full measure of devotion in a more "high profile" war.

Corrected spelling mistake. :)

Sinue_v2
Jun 17, 2010, 06:42 PM
Corrected spelling mistake. :)

Technically it's a grammar error, not a spelling mistake. :)

HAYABUSA-FMW-
Jun 17, 2010, 11:40 PM
Well, if N. Korea actually intends to use Nuclear Weapons, then they obviously have no idea how nuclear weapons work. Particularly, if they're aimed at a next door neighbor. It's not safe to use them on anything that close, you might as well have half the weapons aimed at yourself. You'll accomplish the same thing. *Oh snap* I had no idea the fallout would come back at us!! (Not to mention the neighboring countries not even in the scuffle)
Or anyone else in the world. Nuclear explosions will affect things on the other side of the world, that butterfly effect with much more high stakes.

Euro Volcano in the Spring, but to much bigger magnitudes. If not some volcanoes down that way being interrupted in their natural cycles.

We should hope that their nuclear weapons are in short supply/don't work/they don't know what they're doing regardless of your stance on US intervention. (Intervene in Darfur already, sheesh. Rwanda genocide for no good reasons-previous settler nose/affluent designations being like this generation's version of a holocaust, with another chance to act now in ongoing Darfur roaming regimes tearing down refugee camps.)