PSP2 UMD install.

[blazingsonic]

I'm wondering will installing the game from a UMB as effective as downloading from PSN?

[Izuna]

I'm wondering will installing the game from a UMB as effective as downloading from PSN?

Not really. Using an image file (which is pretty much what a PSN download is) is quite a bit faster. Installing onto the stick almost needed if you're going to be doing the challenge modes online, because loading from the UMD can make pulling out weapons take about five seconds because you can use them.

[blazingsonic]

I mean if I buy the UMD and install the game to my MC would it be like as if I downloaded the game from PSN?

[Izuna]

I mean if I buy the UMD and install the game to my MC would it be like as if I downloaded the game from PSN?

I was talking about that.

[blazingsonic]

So basically installing it from a UMD is equal to installing a game on Xbox 360 where I still need the UMB to play....................dang, looks like it's PSN for me, but I still want a hard copy of the game.

[Izuna]

So basically installing it from a UMD is equal to installing a game on Xbox 360 where I still need the UMB to play....................dang, looks like it's PSN for me, but I still want a hard copy of the game.

I'm not sure what you mean by UMB, but the reason for the increasing load times is because you don't install the whole game onto your stick.

[blazingsonic]

UMD (>.> Come on you know that was a typo..) But okay....Hmmm Ah what the hell I'll get both, It'll go with my Hard Copy of Loco Roco 2

[Izuna]

UMD (>.> Come on you know that was a typo..) But okay....Hmmm Ah what the hell I'll get both, It'll go with my Hard Copy of Loco Roco 2

SEGA will love you, you cute little bear you.

[Para]

How big is the full game anyways?

[Izuna]

How big is the full game anyways?

JPN version is 1.13GB without the update.
The media install is ~350MB.

[Witchblade56]

Izuna I had asked this question previously in another thread and was unable to locate the answer so here's my question again:

with the hard copy of psp2 sega will be providing the player base with a serial number that allows for unlimited access to online multiplayer mode. How are they dealing wihh this issue for those of us with a psp go and downloading the game from the psn?

Also that's pretty friggin awsome that the game works better for the online mode on the psp go as far ad load times are concerned.

[Izuna]

Izuna I had asked this question previously in another thread and was unable to locate the answer so here's my question again:

with the hard copy of psp2 sega will be providing the player base with a serial number that allows for unlimited access to online multiplayer mode. How are they dealing wihh this issue for those of us with a psp go and downloading the game from the psn?

With the JPN version, downloading the game from the PSN Store automatically tied your account with the license (for online play).

[Witchblade56]

Thanks for answering my question izuna :)

[Roontek]

Not really. Using an image file (which is pretty much what a PSN download is) is quite a bit faster. Installing onto the stick almost needed if you're going to be doing the challenge modes online, because loading from the UMD can make pulling out weapons take about five seconds because you can use them.

I find it hard to believe that the data install on the UMD would not suffice for this. This was my main concern with PSP1 and that didn't have any data install feature. Just so I'm right you have tested data install w/UMD loads compared to a complete digital install from PSN and unless you do the digital install you will still suffer with delayed weapon switching load times?

Anything else that lags because of using the UMD?

[Izuna]

I find it hard to believe that the data install on the UMD would not suffice for this. This was my main concern with PSP1 and that didn't have any data install feature. Just so I'm right you have tested data install w/UMD loads compared to a complete digital install from PSN and unless you do the digital install you will still suffer with delayed weapon switching load times?

Anything else that lags because of using the UMD?

The PSN image file, and an ISO dumped from the UMD are exactly the same thing. By the way, I was saying that it was faster with the downloadable version, not unplayable with the UMD version.

Everything that needs to load takes longer; it loads before characters speak, it loads when changing block, it even takes noticeably longer just viewing what missions you can play.

[Roontek]

The PSN image file, and an ISO dumped from the UMD are exactly the same thing. By the way, I was saying that it was faster with the downloadable version, not unplayable with the UMD version.

Everything that needs to load takes longer; it loads before characters speak, it loads when changing block, it even takes noticeably longer just viewing what missions you can play.

This occurs even with a Data Install and running the UMD? I understand completely the differences between weps loading almost instantly compared to a delay of a few seconds, this sort of thing got me killed a lot in PSP1, its the part of the game I despised the most.

But if the Data install feature doesn't address this problem then it looks like a digital download for me, which isn't my first choice by any means.

[GreenArcher]

The PSN image file, and an ISO dumped from the UMD are exactly the same thing.

Downloading from PSN = data install from UMD

[Roontek]

Downloading from PSN = data install from UMD

That can't be right... because if it was a "full install" then you would no longer need the UMD. Now I'm not sure if your implying that doing the install feature found on the UMD that you would therefore not need to use the UMD at all and could just load from the memory card (like a true PSN digital download works)

All "Install features" that I have done with games like, Final Fantasy Dissidia, Monster Hunter Unite, ect... have all been just partial downloads of the most used and retrieved data on the UMD disc, theretofore reducing the time for map loads ect...

If doing the install feature with PSP2 would lower the times for switching weapons as it does currently in the demo version then I will buy a hard copy UMD, otherwise its going to be a PSN Digital download for me.

[Izuna]

That can't be right... because if it was a "full install" then you would no longer need the UMD. Now I'm not sure if your implying that doing the install feature found on the UMD that you would therefore not need to use the UMD at all and could just load from the memory card (like a true PSN digital download works)

All "Install features" that I have done with games like, Final Fantasy Dissidia, Monster Hunter Unite, ect... have all been just partial downloads of the most used and retrieved data on the UMD disc, theretofore reducing the time for map loads ect...

If doing the install feature with PSP2 would lower the times for switching weapons as it does currently in the demo version then I will buy a hard copy UMD, otherwise its going to be a PSN Digital download for me.

He's not right, not in the slightest. I have also played with people online with the PSN version, they enter a block for a I do, and appear a few in game metres before I do. Even with the Data Install.

[Roontek]

He's not right, not in the slightest. I have also played with people online with the PSN version, they enter a block for a I do, and appear a few in game metres before I do. Even with the Data Install.

Looks like a digital download for me then.

[Tizerak]

I wish if you bought the UMD you could then register the game via serial code or w/e and digital download the full thing, I'm just old fashioned I want a physical copy of something I buy.

I don't know how Sony's policy works but if you download a game and your memory fries or whatever... what then? hosed?

[Izuna]

I wish if you bought the UMD you could then register the game via serial code or w/e and digital download the full thing, I'm just old fashioned I want a physical copy of something I buy.

I don't know how Sony's policy works but if you download a game and your memory fries or whatever... what then? hosed?

You can download the same game onto 5 different systems...

You can download the same game onto the same system as many times as you like, unless Sony hates you or does something very silly.

[Tizerak]

That's not so bad I suppose, could keep a back up on my PS3, PC....

I'm tempted to go digital for this game but *whimpers* I want my pretty little case and manual with the disc in that shoddy little UMD case :/

[Izuna]

That's not so bad I suppose, could keep a back up on my PS3, PC....

I'm tempted to go digital for this game but *whimpers* I want my pretty little case and manual with the disc in that shoddy little UMD case :/

^_^ That's the spirit!

[GreenArcher]

Apologies. I interpreted Izuna's post wrong.

[Roontek]

Apologies. I interpreted Izuna's post wrong.

It's all good! But I'm sad a digital download will have the upper hand in some respects...

[ZeroXRaven]

It never bothered me in the first, so doubt it will bother me now...I'm getting the UMD version because it'll come out first and have awesome artwork as always :D

[MT7218]

So, if i read this thread right: the UMD version will have massive lag, while the downloadable ver. won't be as bad? If so, that sucks. I only have a two gig MC. >.<

[Roontek]

So, if i read this thread right: the UMD version will have massive lag, while the downloadable ver. won't be as bad? If so, that sucks. I only have a two gig MC. >.<

I want to make sure the "lag" is understood correctly. The issue I was talking about deals with the time it takes to switch from one weapon set to another. On the demo (because its not running off a UMD disc) loads them pretty much instantly. That is what you can expect with a PSN digital download. Compare that to using the UMD disc where the load times for switching weapons will take anywhere from 3-5 secs before you can use the weapon/techs associated to it. This can become a problem when switching weapons is a necessity to complete a certain challenge mission ect... That and its just bothersome overall.

Other areas that you will notice a change will be at any loading screen you come across. Starting a mission, loading up a vendor screen to buy and sell your items ect... Of course those times are not as big of a deal as when is combat. Bear in mind also the install feature that will come with the UMD. Now this isn't a FULL digital install, rather it contains the most frequently accessed data and installs it on your memory card for faster access times. Unfortunately for me weapon switching in game is not included with this install, so I will therefore be looking into a digital download off PSN, because I'm silly like that.

[MT7218]

Basically, UMD = Weapon Lag, ala PS2/XBox 360 PSU, DD = No weapon lag, like PC PSU on a decent computer.

[Izuna]

Basically, UMD = Weapon Lag, ala PS2/XBox 360 PSU, DD = No weapon lag, like PC PSU on a decent computer.

Less weapon lag, not no weapon lag.

After a weapon loads in, it is stored in the memory for a while, meaning that only the first load for each weapon is slow.

[terrell707]

does anyone know if the download will be available on release day?

[Zarode]

No one is sure, actually. We assume it WILL BE, but there is a chance it won't.

[Ambrai]

What is sad is if Sony took full advantage of the hardware the UMD + Install would be faster than a straight download. Keep in mind the following numbers are estimated, but should be fairly close to the mark.

To my understanding:

UMD transfer speeds were around 3.2mb/s
The transfer on a fast memory stick is around 12.7mb/s

If Sony allowed the developers to take advantage of both data streams you could fetch seperate data from the UMD and memory stick at the same time for a much smoother transfer. The technology exists, they would just have to add a controller to the mainboard that would manage all I/O between the chipset and removable media.

If you think about it, the PSP is dated in terms of technology. The first one came out 5? years ago and we are due for an upgrade by Sony's lifecycle (they support products for 10 years, and release new versions every 5 years. They are overdue for the PSP).

[Izuna]

What is sad is if Sony took full advantage of the hardware the UMD + Install would be faster than a straight download. Keep in mind the following numbers are estimated, but should be fairly close to the mark.

To my understanding:

UMD transfer speeds were around 3.2mb/s
The transfer on a fast memory stick is around 12.7mb/s

If Sony allowed the developers to take advantage of both data streams you could fetch seperate data from the UMD and memory stick at the same time for a much smoother transfer. The technology exists, they would just have to add a controller to the mainboard that would manage all I/O between the chipset and removable media.

If you think about it, the PSP is dated in terms of technology. The first one came out 5? years ago and we are due for an upgrade by Sony's lifecycle (they support products for 10 years, and release new versions every 5 years. They are overdue for the PSP).

That's impossible...

This is a very silly post.

[Roontek]

That's impossible...

This is a very silly post.

Not "impossible" but rather highly improbable.

[Izuna]

Not "impossible" but rather highly improbable.

It wouldn't ever work like that, the way the RAM loads the memory is one block at a time, you can't load two things at once.
You just can't put stress on a computer and have it do two things at once, trying will make it take turns, and end up making it slower.

[Ambrai]

With all due respect to the posters above, but the technology I mention has been in existence for some time. SCSI controllers were managing data in that fashion 25 years ago. Current SATA bus can process over 128 simultaneous streams.

Seriously, if computers could only do one thing at a time, we would be back in the Tandy days.

I work in computer forensics, IT security, intrusion, and prevention technologies. Knowing these technologies is what I do.

[Roontek]

It wouldn't ever work like that, the way the RAM loads the memory is one block at a time, you can't load two things at once.
You just can't put stress on a computer and have it do two things at once, trying will make it take turns, and end up making it slower.

Your common day android phone does this all the time... I know PSP technology is about 5+ years old but still...

[Krupp]

Having imported the game and did the UMD install I want to say it's no where near as effective as having the whole digital game. The install mode function would turn off on its own at times and there would be quite a bit of weapon lag. You also cannot turn it back on mid mission if it were to have an error and shut off. You would have to deal with lag until you're back in the lobby. For efficiency's sake the digital download would be my preferred this time.

[Izuna]

Your common day android phone does this all the time... I know PSP technology is about 5+ years old but still...

I was talking about the PSP.

The PSP cannot do anything of the sort, and it wouldn't make sense for SONY to imagine that people will be running games of the Memory Sticks in the future. Investing in that sort of hardware wouldn't exactly bring them more sales.

[Zarode]

and it wouldn't make sense for SONY to imagine that people will be running games of the Memory Sticks in the future. Investing in that sort of hardware wouldn't exactly bring them more sales.

But they made the PSP-Go? A tweak here and there, and ta-da, dual thread streaming. :wacko:

[Roontek]

Investing in that sort of hardware wouldn't exactly bring them more sales.

Let's be honest here. Sony isn't doing to hot when it comes to console sales, especially the PSP... They are in a sinking boat as it is...

[DoubleJG]

Let's be honest here. Sony isn't doing to hot when it comes to console sales, especially the PSP... They are in a sinking boat as it is...

I work for Sony and pondered the whole profit question myself, and my boss told me that Sony's main profit source comes from the software, not from hardware. He told me this because I wanted to know if I could get a discount on a PS3, and was sadly denied :(

Correct me if I'm wrong, but I think that Nintendo and Microsoft's main profit source is hardware. Yes?

[Zarode]

Correct me if I'm wrong, but I think that Nintendo and Microsoft's main profit source is hardware. Yes?

Nintendo, yes, Mircosoft, unsure.

[Cire39]

Let's be honest here. Sony isn't doing to hot when it comes to console sales, especially the PSP... They are in a sinking boat as it is...

I really don't think Sony is a 'sinking boat;' they're a huge multinational corporation that sells much much more than just video games. I don't think a console failure could put a sizable dent in their company. They also made such a ridiculously humongous amount of money on the PS1 and PS2 that I doubt they're getting out of the games industry any time soon.

[DoubleJG]

I really don't think Sony is a 'sinking boat;' they're a huge multinational corporation that sells much much more than just video games. I don't think a console failure could put a sizable dent in their company. They also made such a ridiculously humongous amount of money on the PS1 and PS2 that I doubt they're getting out of the games industry any time soon.

The PS3 and PSP are both solid systems. I spend 40 hours a week on a PS3 at my job and have come to enjoy the system quite a bit, even though it's the one of this generations consoles that I do not own. While I do own both a DS and PSP-3000, they both serve their purpose in my life. However, I treat my PSP like a treasure, since I see it as such a portable wonder.

But yes, I'm pretty sure you're right when it comes to profit. TVs, cameras, etc etc. I actually plan on possibly buying a Sony Bravia in the near future (I want some of that sweet HD action), or maybe a Vizio.

[Izuna]

But they made the PSP-Go? A tweak here and there, and ta-da, dual thread streaming. :wacko:

What the fuck? The PSP Go doesn't even use UMDs.

[Ambrai]

What the fuck? The PSP Go doesn't even use UMDs.

His statement to the PSPgo was in response to your statement that nobody would be running games on memory sticks. All it would take on the PSP3000 is a small hardware change to enable multiple IO sources. However, since that would be a complete change in functionality and performance, I would expect to see it in the next version of the PSP.

Izuna, I would recommend doing some base level reading on the I/O process and DMA controllers. Having a better understanding on these simple, old, technologies will assist you in understanding our concepts.

[Izuna]

His statement to the PSPgo was in response to your statement that nobody would be running games on memory sticks. All it would take on the PSP3000 is a small hardware change to enable multiple IO sources. However, since that would be a complete change in functionality and performance, I would expect to see it in the next version of the PSP.

Izuna, I would recommend doing some base level reading on the I/O process and DMA controllers. Having a better understanding on these simple, old, technologies will assist you in understanding our concepts.

A small change in hardware design like that would cost Sony a lot of money. The PSPgo doesn't use UMDs, so how does it make sense that they would want to make it stream data like that?

Whatever it is you're suggesting for Sony to, I actually have no idea what it is about. What I do know is that the current PSPs don't have it; it wouldn't have made sense for them to put it in at first; and I don't think it is even the slightest bit of importance to expect developers to take advantage of something like that.

[Ambrai]

and I don't think it is even the slightest bit of importance to expect developers to take advantage of something like that.

This statement is why I strongly suggested you do some research into the technologies that we mentioned. They are being used as mainstay technologies in current generation consoles, including the PSPgo. Having the ability to stream information from multiple sources at once not only overcomes speed limitations to the hosting device, but allows for exponentially faster load times and transfer rates.

--------------------------

Seperate topic

Someone above wanted to know if Nintendo's largest profit was hardware..

The answer is no, software always has the highest margin, however the CEO of Nintendo didn't want to follow Sony and Microsoft and sell their consoles at a loss to make it up late with software sales (which answers question 2, Microsoft and Sony, until recently, were selling their consoles for less than they cost to make. Sony in particular was selling the PS3 for hundreds under the cost to manufacture. http://www.pcworld.com/article/127906/sony_losing_big_money_on_ps3_hardware.html). So Nintendo has always made a profit off of their hardware, but at a lower margin. There was a good interview once with the CEO of Nintendo where he said that Nintendo is a game company, their only income is through selling games and hardware. Sony and Microsoft have other avenues of income that can mitigate their losses in hardware.

[Izuna]

This statement is why I strongly suggested you do some research into the technologies that we mentioned. They are being used as mainstay technologies in current generation consoles, including the PSPgo. Having the ability to stream information from multiple sources at once not only overcomes speed limitations to the hosting device, but allows for exponentially faster load times and transfer rates.

Arguable.

I doubt decreased load times for those with money to spend on large memory sticks (who would have to wait to install a game) really change the sales of their hardware enough to offset the costs of changing the hardware in the first place.

[Ambrai]

Arguable.

I doubt decreased load times for those with money to spend on large memory sticks (who would have to wait to install a game) really change the sales of their hardware enough to offset the costs of changing the hardware in the first place.

Izuna, with all due respect you don't understand the concepts put forth. The information I posted isn't arguable, it's fact with my supporting sources being the Xbox 360, PS3, Wii, PSPGo, and every computer since the Tandy era.

[Akaimizu]

Basically, UMD = Weapon Lag, ala PS2/XBox 360 PSU, DD = No weapon lag, like PC PSU on a decent computer.

Sort of, but the PSU lag is a bit different. Most PSU weapon lag comes from a lag in the network more than a lag in reading the data. That's why it is inconsistent. Sometimes the weapon changes are near instant, and other times, the lag may hits it as bad as a few seconds or so. At least that's from my experience from the 360 version. Take note, pretty much anybody playing AOTI is getting weapon data from highspeed HD reads like a PC.

PSP2 is actually pretty decent with data buffers. The weapon changes are pretty quick. If you want a fair comparison between disk loading and net lag weapon changes, just play a solo game in both single-player and online multiplayer.

[Izuna]

Izuna, with all due respect you don't understand the concepts put forth. The information I posted isn't arguable, it's fact with my supporting sources being the Xbox 360, PS3, Wii, PSPGo, and every computer since the Tandy era.

The thing I said was arguable is whether it is worth it or not, I understand that it will make it faster.

[Naruuchiha1313]

JPN version is 1.13GB without the update.
The media install is ~350MB.

1.13gb? ima need a new memory stick for this fella, dang, i might get the umd cause of that, but i want the download

[Kamen Rider Sting]

Wow, thats a pretty big media platter. I'd be full after 900 mb.

[DarkPhoton]

I just formatted a 2 gig stick for it. I canceled my pre-order today. I plan on downloading it. I don't want to risk the lag on Bruce runs.

[Zarode]

I just formatted a 2 gig stick for it. I canceled my pre-order today. I plan on downloading it. I don't want to risk the lag on Bruce runs.

Bruce isn't something you'll be risking more than C-Mode runs.

[DarkPhoton]

My only experience with PsP2 is the demo, and what information I've gotten from the other PSO games. mainly PsP1 and PSO. So what is a C-Mode run D:

[Ken_Silver]

This sucks for me. I went and pre-ordered the game, and my memory stick is only 1 GB. I also don't have a PS3 to use the PSN.

So I'm screwed basically? I'd hate to have to deal with lag that would make the game harder to play.

[Criss]

You don't need a PS3 to use PSN Store. You can access it straight from your PSP, assuming yours is a legit, up-to-date one. And these days you can find 8Gb sticks for under 40$, so it's not such a bad deal.

[DarkPhoton]

My 2 gig stick, which i plan to pretty much dedicate to PsP2 only cost me about 15 bucks. And as Criss said. You only need the PSP to access the store. Or you can do it straight from your computer.

[Roontek]

The thing I said was arguable is whether it is worth it or not.

Well judging by the expansive response to this thread I would say without reservation that there are plenty of people who prefer the fastest load times and also taking advantage of hardware performance wherever applicable.

Also to add, I understand budgets are tight and buying cards may seem expensive. But I just purchased a sandisk ultra II memory card, 8gigs for $30 from Amazon. That alone will hold 7 copies of phantasy star portable 2. For the price you can't beat it. Its speeds are advertised at 15MB read/write and I have run it through several tests both through a USB Sony card reader running USB 2.0 and through the PSP itself. This card works extremely well in both applications and I have seen increases in load times, I will provide the data to any interested upon request.

[Ken_Silver]

Well judging by the expansive response to this thread I would say without reservation that there are plenty of people who prefer the fastest load times and also taking advantage of hardware performance wherever applicable.

Also to add, I understand budgets are tight and buying cards may seem expensive. But I just purchased a sandisk ultra II memory card, 8gigs for $30 from Amazon. That alone will hold 7 copies of phantasy star portable 2. For the price you can't beat it. Its speeds are advertised at 15MB read/write and I have run it through several tests both through a USB Sony card reader running USB 2.0 and through the PSP itself. This card works extremely well in both applications and I have seen increases in load times, I will provide the data to any interested upon request.

Hello. Can you put that link here? I could buy that when I have it. Sadly, I can't afford PSP2 and the card, only one, so I'll just have to deal with it. I also can't afford to buy PSP2 twice (one digital and one UMD) just for faster playtime. And the card would be useless if I didn't have the game, so... lol.

But I'll have the card for the next game that comes up.

[Para]

From what I understand... even if you have a physical copy of the game, you can't download a digital one from PSN?

[Roontek]

Hello. Can you put that link here? I could buy that when I have it. Sadly, I can't afford PSP2 and the card, only one, so I'll just have to deal with it. I also can't afford to buy PSP2 twice (one digital and one UMD) just for faster playtime. And the card would be useless if I didn't have the game, so... lol.

But I'll have the card for the next game that comes up.

Here is the link for the card. Make sure you get this exact one, there is another just like it but it only maxes out at 10MB read/write speeds.

Amazon: http://www.amazon.com/gp/offer-listing/B0012WBAPO/ref=dp_olp_new?ie=UTF8&condition=new

Buy from the vendor TechDeal, $27.88 + shipping so it came to about $32 and some change, delivery took 5-7 days.

[Zarode]

From what I understand... even if you have a physical copy of the game, you can't download a digital one from PSN?

Correct.