Religion

[AOI_Tifa_Lockhart]

Hiya all,

Of course this title can spawn a never-ending theological, psychological and philosophical debate. But I was reading this article on why people believe in God and I found the way it to be written to be intriguing, here is part of it...


For all of us, life is full of uncertainties and difficulties, and it ends in death. Every religion claims to overcome death, to provide certainty, and reward us for being good. So great is our fear of life and death that most of us allow hope to override our intellect.

No religion accepts us as the person we know ourselves to be. Rather, we are told that we are inadequate, unsatisfactory and helpless. We fear that this is so, and to give us hope we construct a fantasy about how we are superior to those who do not share our views.

On these grounds we feel entitled to force our views on non-believers, and, if they resist, to kill them. I was taught that we Presbyterians were infinitely superior to Catholics and all the rest, while Aboriginals were not even human.

I thought that the man Jesus wouldn't have approved of such views, and this set me on the path of understanding that, although people differ as individuals and in terms of culture, basically all human beings are the same.

We all want to be the person we know ourselves to be, and for others to recognise this and treat us with respect. We want to live without being dominated by fear, to enjoy good relationships, and to have a secure place in our society. No one is better than anyone else by virtue of their beliefs.

When we are able to be the person we know ourselves to be, without vanity or self-pity, we have the wonderful experience of feeling at home with everything that exists. Some people describe this in religious terms, some in terms of nature, but, whatever, we do not feel the need to have a religion tell us what we should believe.


It was an interesting read, i'm tempted to by the book by this writer as it's an interesting topic and well written in my opinion.

Tifa

[Chukie sue]

And the title of the book is "Religion" I presume? I figure this will trigger quite a bit of Google results, so could you tell me the authors name?

[AOI_Tifa_Lockhart]

Hiya,

Sorry should've put it in the original post. It's called 'What Should I Believe?' by Dr Dorothy Rowe is published by Routledge.

Tifa

[Akaimizu]

The only thing is that he generalizes too much in that theory. He sums up all religions based on his personal perception from just one point of view. His second paragraph is totally untrue based on certain religious groups. For some, the teachings actually go as far as to totally not claim any superiority over others, and that's actually a bad way to think.

But besides the point. It could be a good read, but it definitely seems like a piece that describes things without the amount of true research that's needed to truly talk about it. Regardless of ones views on the subject, it does generalize a bit too much. Almost the same way science will group various groups together to have the same traits, but then will revise its books whenever something comes along and breaks the trend.

[AOI_Tifa_Lockhart]

Yeah I do see what you mean and felt the same when reading it that it was generalized and quite biased, but this exert was from a newsstory so i'm not sure if this was the introduction to the book as obviously it had to be condensed for a news column, but I am fascinated by this subject and arguements from all sides intrigue me.

Tifa

[Nitro Vordex]

If you want to read some spiritual stuff, read some of Paulo Cohello's books. I read a couple of them, and I really liked them. He does have a certain religion, but he relates every religion as a different path, rather than there being one true religion. Some of the things I read in his books were thought provoking, and even though I'm not religious myself, it still made me think more spiritually.

[AOI_Tifa_Lockhart]

Awesome, reading the reviews of these books looks very promising and I founded them so cheap too! Thanks for the advice :)

Tifa

[DragonForce]

I think that religion is just an excuse to make people feel better about the inevitability of death. I mean, if everyone in the world knew that they were going to die some day and not go to their promised lands, there wouldn't be any reason to live.

Out consciousness is created from our brains, which runs on electric signals. When those signals die, there's nothing left. There's been no proof that we transcend our physical bodies and go to these heavens or hells that are described by various religions.

For now, I'll believe that I'll go to some heaven when I die because I want to be with the people I care about in this world. That's the only reason I have for being alive or at least wanting to be alive.

[Sinue_v2]

I think that religion is just an excuse to make people feel better about the inevitability of death. I mean, if everyone in the world knew that they were going to die some day and not go to their promised lands, there wouldn't be any reason to live.

On the contrary, I've noticed that the fear of death and the despair of losing a loved one is generally universal - regardless of whether or not they believe the "promise" of something afterward. If it's supposed to be a coping mechanism, it's not a very good one IMO. The tragedy is, I think, what comes associated with a belief in the afterlife... the wasted appreciation for life - both yours and of those who are still will you.


For now, I'll believe that I'll go to some heaven when I die because I want to be with the people I care about in this world. That's the only reason I have for being alive or at least wanting to be alive.

Just be careful that you don't forget who those people were and how they impacted your life in the blind adherence to the belief that you'll be with them again. Personally, I find it sad to think that you would place the value of your life according to what you have lost - and that without the tissue paper hope (it seems, from the way you describe it) that you'll regain it all someday - you life is worthless.


As for me, I think the issue of belief in an afterlife has more to do with our perception of existence - and how hard it is for us to truly imagine what it means to not exist. It's something you can't consciously perceive, because just to image it would have to first come with framework of thought which would be something. Couple this with brains which are geared towards constructing useful frameworks for how to interact with the world based on previous perceptions and memories so as to anticipate future interactions - and it's little wonder that when someone dies, we still "feel" as if they are still around in some fashion. What would they say, what would they do, were they still here? It's only a small step from there to say "Well, they are" - because their imagined interaction can still alter our responses and behavior.

Religion has incorporated an explanation for this "lingering disembodied spirit", and often has co-opted it as a bait & hook for adherence to the faith by stoking our need for reciprocity by extending the concept of reward and punishment to this afterlife.


From the OP.

No religion accepts us as the person we know ourselves to be. Rather, we are told that we are inadequate, unsatisfactory and helpless. We fear that this is so, and to give us hope we construct a fantasy about how we are superior to those who do not share our views.

On these grounds we feel entitled to force our views on non-believers, and, if they resist, to kill them. I was taught that we Presbyterians were infinitely superior to Catholics and all the rest, while Aboriginals were not even human.

I think this has more to do with our collective tribal and ethnocentric mentalities. (See More (http://psychology.wikia.com/wiki/Tribalism)) Religion is only area of human society where it manifests, but it's so ingrained into our psychology that it manifests in nearly every aspect of our culture - from political ideologies to the old-school console wars. One of the biggest draws to religion is not the "redemption" aspect... but the sense of collective community and identity.

As for the matter of God or Gods... well, I think philhellenes came close to hitting the nail on the head with this video.


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UcrJ2HFKogs

However, I think a bigger factor than what he mentioned is our tendency to anthropomorphise the world around us. His argument sort of nests in a larger bit of mental trickery, wherein our highly socially adapted brains over apply the theory of mind to the point where we are tempted to perceive the non-human universe in the same manner as which we would apply to another purpose driven human being. I don't think, as he suggests, that paranoia is a unique adaptation to humans and our ancestors... but I'm sure it complicated the anthropomorphizing we were already doing.

It at least explains why the gods so often are portrayed as human - and display human temperaments, virtues, and follies. It's not because we were made in their image... but that we made them in ours.

[DragonForce]

Personally, I find it sad to think that you would place the value of your life according to what you have lost - and that without the tissue paper hope (it seems, from the way you describe it) that you'll regain it all someday - you life is worthless.

I don't give a flying fuck about the value of my life. The only thing that fuels me is the good I've put ( and can put ) in the lives of my friends and family. Without them, my life is meaningless. If I can die knowing that I've done good in the lives of others, I can rest happy.

I've thought a lot about suicide during my teens. I came to the conclusion that if I did that, it would do more bad than good to the people who have been there for me. It also would make me look like a pussy like my piece of shit dad who killed himself when I was two months old.

[Chukie sue]

Hiya,

Sorry should've put it in the original post. It's called 'What Should I Believe?' by Dr Dorothy Rowe is published by Routledge.

Tifa

Thanks :)