Best Vanguard race???

[Ruf]

Just wondering if anyone who played the japanese version has any insight. I've heard female beast a lot. It would be nice if someone could break down some charts or reasons why.

Thanks!

[LeonAlabard]

Well, you can take a look about it here:
http://psp2.psupedia.info/Races
http://psp2.psupedia.info/Types
http://www.gamefaqs.com/boards/969683-phantasy-star-portable-2/55456033

[Infernonyc]

*Looks for Izuna*

[Zarode]

Beasts are filthy. :wacko:

[reala728]

i would think human cause their well rounded which is basically what vanguard is.

[DarkPhoton]

It all really depends. Are you planning on using more technics? melee? ranged? If you want complete balance I would say human. Firearms and techs? Newman. Melee and ranged? Cast. Melee and technic? It all depends on how YOU want to play it. Ive seen Newmans run around with sabers and melee with beast hunters. There really is no supreme class for vanguard from what i can tell.

[Alexandria]

I think the general consensus is Newman or Beast. Highest EVA class+high EVA race makes a good combo, supposidly.

[Wayu]

All Vanguard/Braver + race combos are good. I personally use a Newman Braver for the EVP. If you decide to be one as well, I could recommend a build/palette for you.

-Wayu

[Nidramag]

I use a Newman as mine.

[Wayu]

Yeah, you'll wanna focus on EVP if you're a Newman Braver/Vanguard. Especially if you're a female.

-Wayu

[Izuna]

*Looks for Izuna*

Assuming you're picking the same sex for each...

Newman:
- Best EVP; (nearly invincible)
- Second Best PP;
- Worst Striking/Range Damage;
- Best Technique Power;
- Can Use Mirage Blasts; (best damage against most enemies)

Beast:
- Second Best EVP; (nearly invincible)
- Worst PP; (quite the difference from a Human/Newman's)
- Best Striking Damage;
- Second Worst Range Damage; (due to changes in formulae)
- Second Worst Technique Power; (very similar to a Human's)
- Can Use Nanoblasts; (worst damage/dangerous in parties)

Human:
- Second Worst EVP; (not quite invincible)
- Second Worst PP; (similar to a Newman's)
- Second Worst Striking Damage; (much better than a Newman's)
- Second Best Range Damage; (see notes below)
- Second Best Technique Power; (very similar to a Beast's)
- Can Use Mirage Blasts; (best damage against most enemies)

Cast:
- Worst EVP; (barely effective)
- Best PP; (due to restore rate)
- Second Best Striking Damage; (similar to a Beast's)
- Best Range Damage; (much better than a Human's)
- Worst Technique Power; (ineffective)
- Can Use SUVs; (SUVs have a damage output similar to Mirage Blasts, and are better in some occasions. Fluges are SUVs which cast buffs and auto-restore, see notes below)

Notes:

[SPOILER-BOX]Longbows, for example, use TP+ATA as their main damage modifier; Rifles use ATP+ATA. Rifles are not only faster, and have a superior Charge Bullet in most occasions, a Newman Force with the best Longbow does less DPS than a Newman Force with the best Rifle.

Techniques have the worst DPS in the game, but are great for support early on; buffs from a Force can only go up a LV3 buff (PA Disk LV21+), which is quite the difference from the LV5 buffs a Cast's SUV can do.

Vanguards are the best class for simple reasons; their statistics are similar to a Hunter's, but feeds power into more important statistics like EVP, TP, MST... ect; the biggest reason is that they have EX Traps, which in the Japanese version used to be miles better than anything else; since the patch, they still have the best DPS in the game. Vanguards can use 8 EX Traps, Rangers can use 4. Both Hunters and Forces (a somewhat under-performing type as it is) can't use EX Traps.

Although the difference of PP in comparison to a Human's and Newman's is small, there's still a application difference when using Range weapons. Once the Type Ability PP High Boost is equipped, the difference no longer impacts Range weapons by such a way. Without the ability, Newmans are better with building larger chains, whereas Humans are not quite so able in that aspect. Once the ability is equipped, Humans are able to use Range weapons as chain support in a very effective way, and are better with damage output.

PP High Boost > PP Restore Rate; the former increases the amount of maximum PP and increases the restore rate to about what PP Restore Rate would increase it by.

TP is the modifier for the amount of HP restored when using Resta. When a Technique pass LV11+, or LV21+, it becomes slower to use. Humans, Newmans, and Beasts, can use LV10 Resta, the fastest way to use it, and restore all of their HP. Casts on the other-hand, struggle to restore their health to the maximum due to their very low TP (although very good equipment can change this). Going by what was mentioned above, Casts are the worst users of Longbows as well.[/SPOILER-BOX]

- Males have slightly more HP, ATP, DFP, and EVP.
- Females have slightly more PP, ATA, TP, and MST.

The difference in the sexes above play a little part in making the tier-list somewhat confusing...
For example; Male Newman is worst than a Male Human, but a Female Newman is better than both; however, a Female Human is better than all.

The example above is not true, but shows that in general, Females are better than Males. There are only a couple of instances where a Male does a type/race better. What isn't mentioned at all above is how HP, DFP, and MST comes to play; these statistics depend entirely on how you play Phantasy Star Portable 2. If you're good at the game, taking advantage of Dodging, Blocking, and exploiting SAFE ZONES in maps, those statistic should not matter. EVP is a great statistic, since it works to remove the necessity of playing Phantasy Star Portable 2 in a safe, and rational way.

This is what I think: Casts are the best for Multiplayer, and Humans are the best for Singleplayer; the difference being the strength of a Cast versus the defense Human. I find Newman's to be too weak, and also too dangerous due to their low health. Beasts have the worst PP, stopping them from being good with Range weapons, and their Nanoblasts are most unwelcome. Of course, what I think is dependant on my play-style. Find out what yours is and work out what's best for you; maybe you find Newearls to be cute, or you think Beasts look cool.

If you liked this post, please promote PSO terminology: VAmar, VAmarl; RAcast, RAcaseal; FOnewm, FOnewearl; HUbeast, HUbeaseal; VAdewm, HUdewearl.

Reference:
[SPOILER-BOX]Male Vanguard (ブレイバー) CLv200TLv30
Human, Newman, Cast, Beast
(HP) HP 1270 1142 1428 1397
(ATP) 攻撃 865 778 908 974
(DFP) 防御 426 335 408 372
(ATA) 命中 384 402 433 345
(EVP) 回避 591 650 533 648
(TP) 法撃 865 929 742 825
(MST) 精神 407 389 337 319

bold = highest
italic = lowest[/SPOILER-BOX]

[Ruf]

Wonderful guide thank you Izuna :D

[Infernonyc]

I shall be rolling a VAcast.

[Ruf]

Ya i can't decide between a VAcast or a VAcaseal.

[Infernonyc]

I shall be rolling a VAcast.

Although I feel like Human's have better looking clothes because I haven't seen any end-game parts.....

[Izuna]

Ya i can't decide between a VAcast or a VAcaseal.

Outside of the PP difference, there's not much to worry about when it comes to Casts. Pick the gender you like more from their appearance.

[Ruf]

In that case im gonna go with a VAcast

[Typestatic]

If you liked this post, please promote PSO terminology: VAmar, VAmarl; VAcast, VAcaseal; VAnewm, VAnewearl; VAbeast, VAbeaseal; VAdewm, VAdewearl.

I'm a HURAFOBR(VA)caseal!

[Koiwai_Keiji]

I'm a HURAFOBR(VA)caseal!

It's almost like you can...be any class, regardless of race! This certainly makes naming conventions easier. =P

[kongajinken]

EVP is a great statistic, since it works to remove the necessity of playing Phantasy Star Portable 2 in a safe, and rational way.

My thoughts exactly.

[Fhin]

HURAFOBR(VA)Human/Newman/cast/caseal/Beast!

That would be the best choice. :D
There's no race which is good overall like the pplz mentioned before but I think you should play what you wanna play..if you wanna go o.p. all out which "might" be boring after a time, it's ok or you wanna go with whatever you want.

[Zarode]

Haha, Challenge Mode will love to meet you.

[Fhin]

Never rly did challange mode with PSO but I WANT every title in PSPo2 so challange mode, here I come! (in a few days :D)

[Typestatic]

Haha, Challenge Mode will love to meet you.

and it has! I like swapping my classes at the mission counter (if I'm feeling giddy) for whichever stage I'm at.

[RubyEclipse]

I rolled Newman Vanguard. :)

[Lolitron]

BR = VA = Braver = Vandguard

Having leveled and played a level200 fCast BR30 and a lvl196 fBeast BR26 for nearly 300 hours each, I've experienced a wide varieties of pros and cons. Ultimately, ATA, PP and EVP are the three most important stats according to my experience. Beasts happen to lack ATA and PP while casts lack EVP. However, newmans excel in all three of these stats.

For all missions without altered monsters (monsters with higher base ATA), all the races are good as Braver. All races have enough EVP for melee invincibility.

However, if you guys get DLC with the MAX missions (monsters have higher ATA and less HP than normal), Newman Braver is definitely the best choice for these missions. Beasts have serious ATA problems and compromise many ability points and slots for ATA and PP. Newmans can easily exceed beasts in ATA, PP, and EVP (because you have more slots and ability points to stick EVP in without compromising other essential stats) and even come close to beast ATP (which is useless in the MAX's) with the proper abilities and slots. Not to mention Newmans have Ground Mirage blast, which is much more useful than Nanoblast. Do not over glorify HP and DFP. They are useless in the MAX's and excessive in all other missions. Anything that's dangerous does 700-1000 damage. Regardless of what race you are, as Braver, you will die in 2 hits. Not to mention, if you're invincible, why do you even need HP and DFP?

Cast braver simply doesn't have enough EVP and cannot reach those required levels of EVP without the lvl5 Deband SUV. Human Braver will struggle to reach those EVP points (you'll need RA25 for High EVP Boost) however it is still possible for them to reach the breaking points.

If you guys ever get the MAX's, don't come crying with your Cast Bravers about not having enough EVP. Also, that chin-piece is irritating enough for me to dislike using my cast.

[DarkPhoton]

I never found ATA to be too much of an importance unless using firearms. At about level 20 or so you don't miss often at all.

[Lolitron]

I never found ATA to be too much of an importance unless using firearms. At about level 20 or so you don't miss often at all.

I'm glad that with your 20 levels of experience, you feel like you can claim that ATA is not important.

I suppose it's ridiculous for me to claim that ATA is important despite my two lvl195+ Br27+ characters.

[GantzDetainee]

I really find this thread interesting specially Izuna's and Lolitron's post.So from what I could understand is Cast vanguards are good with melee,ranging,great PP recovery,can withstand a hit or two and can carry more EX traps(which I think can make killing higher level monster easy with residual damage) but has horrible EVP which makes it prone to getting hit easier v.s. Newman vanguards that have godly EVP(which mean less hits from monster)good meleeing capability,good PP recovery but can't carry EX traps and prone to getting OHKO(if hit)?

[kongajinken]

EX traps are not race based.They are type based: VA=8 RA=4 HU/FO=0
Newman don't get hit because of EVP and take less damage from magic(higher mst)

[Lolitron]

I really find this thread interesting specially Izuna's and Lolitron's post.So from what I could understand is Cast vanguards are good with melee,ranging,great PP recovery,can withstand a hit or two and can carry more EX traps(which I think can make killing higher level monster easy with residual damage) but has horrible EVP which makes it prone to getting hit easier v.s. Newman vanguards that have godly EVP(which mean less hits from monster)good meleeing capability,good PP recovery but can't carry EX traps and prone to getting OHKO?

Any race, as long as they are Braver/Vanguard can carry:
10 Fire Traps
10 Freeze Traps
10 Confuse Traps
4 Fire EX Traps
4 Stun EX Traps

Trap damage is based on ONLY character level (and burst bomber, which all races learn) so all the races do the same damage with traps.

[GantzDetainee]

^ I see,thanks for clarifying this specially the EX traps.So it all comes down to EVP then?

[kongajinken]

^ I see,thanks for clarifying this specially the EX traps.So it all comes down to EVP then?

EVP>DEF by miles. Not even a comparison. DEF is arguably the most useless stat in the game.

[GantzDetainee]

I think it makes sense now.One more thing,does EVP prevent you from getting hit by technic attacks?If so even if EVP didn't prevent hits from technic attacks,Newman still have an edge over Cast since they can take hits from Technic attacks much better than Cast.

[kongajinken]

EVP only works on physical attacks. Wish it worked on technic so I could be invincible. Human/Newman are next best thing to it with S/A rank MST respectively. (Assuming you hit EVP cap)

[Shakuri]

It works on very few Techniques, the ones that are physical damage based that is.

Vanda Merha's Damfoie.
Kamatoze Dambarta (although this has an annoying hit box that can cause it to hit you from behind if you're too close to it)

Everything else, no. However aside from Ra Techs, they're all very easy to Exact Guard against.

[kongajinken]

I did not know that.

[Lolitron]

It works on very few Techniques, the ones that are physical damage based that is.

Vanda Merha's Damfoie.
Kamatoze Dambarta (although this has an annoying hit box that can cause it to hit you from behind if you're too close to it)

Everything else, no. However aside from Ra Techs, they're all very easy to Exact Guard against.

Those light balls that Golmoros shoot too. Unconfirmed but maybe the weird dambarta Sageetas do? But I guess these aren't exactly techs... Like the yellow balls those weird things on parum shoot while dying and the white foam the crab monster things shoot from those relics missions.

Odd how SEGA chose to do that for no apparent reason though...

[GantzDetainee]

^ Thank you for all the input guys.I guess I'll be rolling back my Fonewearl into Vanewearl then.

[Eclipsed57]

so you guys with high level vanguards. what kind of palettes do you use, main weapons?

[Shakuri]

Those light balls that Golmoros shoot too. Unconfirmed but maybe the weird dambarta Sageetas do? But I guess these aren't exactly techs... Like the yellow balls those weird things on parum shoot while dying and the white foam the crab monster things shoot from those relics missions.

Odd how SEGA chose to do that for no apparent reason though...

Yeah, EVP negates the Grafoie (...) from Olghomons and other Light creatures that use it too. Also blocks the faux Dambarta that Ageetas use, as well as the majority of "breath" attacks that enemies use that look like altered Dam Techs.

Shame it doesn't work on the one that matters most though, Dammegid from darkness squids. :disapprove:

[kongajinken]

God I hate those squids.

[Ceresa]

so you guys with high level vanguards. what kind of palettes do you use, main weapons?

Knuckles: Ranpa, instant launch, then most of it's power is focused on the second hit, which is also fast and wide ranging and lots of targets and fits in a simple chain 1.

Twin Saber: Blade Destruction is the king at chain 14+

Spear: Scadd has a stronger first part then bladestruction and still on par at the end of the second combo. Robado hits 5! targets now and is pretty awesome for special missions with lowered enemy hp.

Twin Hyorin: Technically twin daggers...the shizuru ones might as well be a category of their own. Circumvent the shitty chain system and improve your mission clear times with one weapon, the best extend code you'll ever use.

Twin handgun: Building chains on the big stuff

Rifle: Shooting bosses at range, easier to get a 2nd charge shot off in first person than twin handguns, though maybe others have better skill at that than me.

Some tech weapon for buffs

Every single one of those except rifle and tech stuff also boosts evasion, awesome. (Though non manufacturer spears don't for some reason)

Anything else is just for funsies.

[Izuna]

My Vanguard palette was a personal choice of making the game more fun;

Double Saber (with Stun)
Rifle (with Stun)
Spread Needle (with Stun)
Laser Cannon (with Stun)
Spear, and Rod (for Resta)

That was all I used, but is by no means the best. For those who are jumping on the Newman bandwagon, remember that although their EVP/ATA is great for Multi-mode missions during solo, they are technically not the best when it comes to Time Trials; their damage output is quite low.

There's quite the disagreement between Lolitron and I; she thinks Newmans are better, whereas I think Humans are better. Really, I think a Human's EVP is high enough, and the amount of damage you can as a Human saves a lot of time. On the flip-side, something like EVP is great for solo, since as mentioned before, it saves effort during play.

When I played PSPo2 with my circle, we had a VAmar and a RAcaseal whose purpose was to Stun enemies and build chains; when you have a couple of people stunning the hell out of nearly every enemy, EVP becomes something unimportant. The rest of our party consisted of two VAmarls, giving us a total of 28 EX Traps (they played like Hunters with Twin Sabers, Dual Daggers, Spears, and Axes). We had an unbeatable team, and our Type/Race was static outside of Challenge Missions, I'm sure it would have been just as unbeatable even if we were all Newmans, although not as fast.

Personally, I brought Stun to solo, and used it to get me through any hard areas where I couldn't use EX Traps. Perfect play with a Human will no doubt get through missions faster than a Newman, the damage output difference is great.

What I think of Beasts? I have only used a high level one for a short while; I don't like the race, so I refused to give it much thought. What I can be sure of is that their Nanoblasts are horrible, and their PP makes playing as a Ranger rubbish.

What I think of Newmans? I have gotten a Male up to LV200 as a Vanguard and a Force; I trust Lolitron, but I personally I didn't notice the EVP increase offsetting the very low HP/DFP. I found the game to be more difficult, but this was long before MAX came out.

[Velinus]

*Taking notes* Thanks for all the input guys, great stuff.

[Eclipsed57]

thx for the informative posts, a lot to think about now..

[Wayu]

I might as well put my two cents in:

This is for those who will play a much more defensive style when soloing. In other words, if you dodge and move around a lot and count on your EVP to keep you afloat when you attack, this is what I use.

Twin Saber: As mentioned above, Blade Destruction is ridiculously powerful. Your accuracy modifier is unfortunately only 90% or so, but it should be more than enough to destroy...well, anything.

Handgun + Dagger: The handgun is for longer range targets and for flying enemies. The dagger is for whacking small enemies that don't take much effort to kill and to knock down larger enemies.

Sword: I don't actually recommend this unless you have the Kokuinto-Hozuki unsealed and extended, as you don't get an EVP bonus from this AND swords are slow in general. Once you do get the Hozuki extended + unsealed, though, it's great with Tornado Break when there are too many enemies surrounding you. Also, level 5 freeze.

Spear/Double Saber: I interchange these around depending on what mission I'm about to do, seeing as how my Muk Lath Scorpio is :dark:. Otherwise I use a Stag Cutlery for its :fire: element with Cyclone Dance, possibly the safest PA in the game.

Rod: Don't bother with wands and madoogs/TCSMs. They cast fast but lack TP and the two smaller weapons' combined Class Extend costs equal the rods (to S-Rank). Save some inventory space and heal more with a rod. Also, they just look better (Gravideon).

This last comment is more for female Newman Bravers/Vanguards, but if you think you might get hit, dodge immediately. There are many things in this game that will have you screaming in rage not because they're strong but because they're annoying. In other words, anything that casts techniques and/or has high accuracy should be dealt with with extreme caution (BEL PANNONS). Bravers/Vanguards don't have enough defenses or HP to deal with those things.

-Wayu

[Koiwai_Keiji]

Braver/Vanguard class is just amazing, at some point higher level your EVP will just become an impenetrable shield against non-tech attacks...in offline mode. Between lag and higher enemy stats, online mode can still go through your evade, but you'll find its still a great passive defense. Once you wear the appropriate armor and units, its nearly as good evade results as playing offline mode.

There isn't much talk about beast vanguards, so I'll share my side of that, since not many play that race. PP regen is the biggest obstacle for beasts, so I found myself running out of PP very quickly using rifles or twin handguns. So that can be mitigated a little by using a 'save bullet' pa equipped to the rifle, but then beast ata makes it hard to hit things consistently. For the ata part, I have to equip ata units or attack from behind. I don't use ranged weapons for damage, its mostly for chain building or SE affliction.

Melee is very easy and safe for beasts, you have higher hp, higher evade, and because of the chain system, the likelihood of you running out of pp means that your spamming too much of a pa rather than building a chain. To provide greater pp regen, I use one of the PP boost abilities, since any increase to your overall pp increases your regen amount proportionally (but the rate of regen is still the slowest of the races).

Equipment/Palette:

Twin Sabers x2: Two twin sabers of opposing elements with Blade Destruction, that pa really is very powerful, and like the daggers, twin sabers regular attack animation lends itself well to chain building.

Rifle: Typically something with death or stun, used mainly to help chain build with a chance to kill or paralyze the enemy.

Shield/Wand: Having the highest hp and evade (usually), means you can take some chances and heal the party or buff mid fight.

Knuckles: The latest knuckles PA is great, since it immediately knocks things down, it can be used to keep annoying enemies grounded (like Ardites).

Double Saber: Something with shock or stun, this weapon has a good reach and hits multiple enemies. Usually I'll use Gravity Dance with this, or in place of knuckles, the latest PA also knocks enemies down for its first combo.

Nanoblasts aren't as helpful as SUV or Mirage Blasts, but it isn't like in PSU, where you were in danger of dying constantly. In pspo2, the evade in nanoblast form is so high, no physical attacks would hit me. That said, a tech would sometimes make it through and your damage won't be impressing anyone (unless you become a black beast).

This definitely doesn't sell the beast as 'the best vanguard' race, but at least it tells you what to expect from picking that race. Overall, I found it to be very fun trying to find ways to overcome the 'weaknesses' and play to its strengths.

[Izuna]

Double Saber: Something with shock or stun, this weapon has a good reach and hits multiple enemies. Usually I'll use Gravity Dance with this, or in place of knuckles, the latest PA also knocks enemies down for its first combo.

I use Absolute Dance with a party, or in Version 1.00 (obvious reasons that don't apply to the Western game); outside of that, I use Spiral Dance, as it is very fast and its first part is actually the strongest (not to mention, it staggers enemies).

Cyclone dance, as Wayu mentioned, is safe. You can actually spam this skill, and survive. Granted, it'll make completing missions slower.

PP Escape Save is an ability you'll always want, it costs a single point and cuts down the PP required to dodge from 50 to something like ~20.

I used an ability I actually don't recommend, Professional; you'll find yourself choosing an ability for the hell of it, and all Professional does is save a little time. I urge people to try out HP Restorite, because on the Max missions, it tends to save your life. (10% Health Recovery every few moments)

[kongajinken]

I never really got into PP escape save. I normally block instead of dodging.

[DarkPhoton]

I like to attack from a distance, It's rare that anything really gets close enough to hit me while I'm dancing around them.

[Izuna]

Final bump for great justice; hopefully the new release keeps the Question thread going.

[Fandon]

Wow, thanks for all of the info, was going to go a beast hunter but vanguard is starting to look like a LOT of fun. There has been a lot of great advice, could someone please go through the difference between mirage blasts for newmans and humans and then SUV weapons and why nanoblasts suck? I like beasts but was thinking human or newman for a vanguard.

[kongajinken]

Mirage blasts work off of TP so newman do more damage then humans with fire/ice/lighting/ground mirage blasts.
Light is newman only, it increases the mirageblast/SUV/nanoblast bar of fellow party members.
Dark is human only, it increases attack/casting speed greatly for a short period of time.

As for SUV/nanoblasts I wouldn't know sorry.

[Fandon]

Thanks! I knew a little bit about nanoblasts from playing the first PSP but I knew it was overhauled, I never played online though so I didnt know they were bad.

[Izuna]

Thanks! I knew a little bit about nanoblasts from playing the first PSP but I knew it was overhauled, I never played online though so I didnt know they were bad.

The problem is that later on in the game, using them is a bad idea. Black Nanoblasts player kills, and without it, you're going to do less DPS.

[Sol_B4dguy]

And gold and silver's high EVP doesn't help as much as you'd like; you'll still need to tread very carefully around enemy spellcasters. And Maiden help you if you're in the red and you go black...

[Izuna]

Just some quick advice, please use the Mystic every time you're about to start a Mission... even for paying just 1k Meseta, I get the Rare Drop Boost 15% frequently.

[DarkPhoton]

SUV weapons work off of the cast's accuracy, Except the melee versions wich play off of the casts STR. I use Divine cluster myself. And pack the stat increasing one for boss hunts.

[Crimson The FOmar]

Sory to resurrect this, but I'm curious, when a vanguard, does TP matter that much?

I fancied being either a male human or a male newman instead of a female for the slightly higher ATP as i plan to use twin sabers, but I can't decide between the two.

I suppose the consensus is that a newman is better for the EVP, but a human would have higher attack and the dark mirage blast, althought the newman would do more damage with an attack mirage blast...opinions are welcomed, no point making another thread.

[Izuna]

TP matters as far as making Resta full heal at LV10, above that, naw. If you wanna be vey practical, you shouldn't use Techs.

The difference in attack power between Humans and Newmans is very practical, I'd suggest ONLY choosing Newman if you like the idea of having a high EVP. When it comes to the later parts of the game, Humans will end up completing Story Mode Open Missions much faster than a Newman, but apparently Newmans are much safer in some Multi Mode Tactical Missions.

Dark Mirage Blast is fun... It's not a strength.