Sexist.

[Gokudera]

i was greatly dissapointed on how having a penis made me unable to enjoy the stamp collecting event.
Atfirst, I was like, W00t stamp.
but then when i got 3, for both of the stamp places, they were both outfits for girls only.
The Offery Box: I used it 4 times, first 2 times, i got beef kabob wands, other 2 i got mikuna sets, which i was unable to use due to it being girls only.
Sega, you made it so hunters could get items suitable for hunters.
rangers can get items suitable for rangers, etc
why not just make it so guys and get male items ._.

Well I cant entirely say its sexist, we do get some special items.
the most manly thing ever. Cat paws. that meow when you hit things.
(no srs. I enjoyed them when iw as level 30.)

[ChaosAngel92]

I think, and only think, that many PSU players prefer to use girls rather than males.
At least in my case. I don't know why, but perhaps it's because females have the best clothing and appearance looks.

Perhaps you are right, but I still can't agree with PSP beign sexist.

[xBladeM6x]

Japanese made games for the most part, are 101% guaranteed to have some focus on the woman much more so than the males.




Yes I know this post is kinda bashing an entire culture but it's true. :-?

[Gokudera]

alls it promotes is "G.i.r.l"s.
Guys in real life.

[ChaosAngel92]

alls it promotes is "G.i.r.l"s.
Guys in real life.

Whats the problem with that?
You don't expect to find the love of your life in a videgame, right?

I'm a proud "G.i.r.l".

[marc110]

i was greatly dissapointed on how having a penis made me unable to enjoy the stamp collecting event.
Atfirst, I was like, W00t stamp.
but then when i got 3, for both of the stamp places, they were both outfits for girls only.
The Offery Box: I used it 4 times, first 2 times, i got beef kabob wands, other 2 i got mikuna sets, which i was unable to use due to it being girls only.
Sega, you made it so hunters could get items suitable for hunters.
rangers can get items suitable for rangers, etc
why not just make it so guys and get male items ._.

Well I cant entirely say its sexist, we do get some special items.
the most manly thing ever. Cat paws. that meow when you hit things.
(no srs. I enjoyed them when iw as level 30.)

make a female char

[ashley50]

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v203/ashley_riot/cc0df3cfea25e6a02ccc8a363a39b430bb3ada680.jpg

[Gokudera]

Whats the problem with that?
You don't expect to find the love of your life in a videgame, right?

I'm a proud "G.i.r.l".
Love life in gameS? no. but, its just shameful when i see this happen in games.


http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v203/ashley_riot/cc0df3cfea25e6a02ccc8a363a39b430bb3ada680.jpg

....Iv been to anime boston, Iv seen worst.. sadly..

[ChaosAngel92]

Love life in gameS? no. but, its just shameful when i see this happen in games.

I must insist.
Why?

It's after all the philosophy in all this type of games right?
Everyone disguise in it's own story and character to escape from real life. Just a common practice in today society I think.

[Gokudera]

I must insist.
Why?

It's after all the philosophy in all this type of games right?
Everyone disguise in it's own story and character to escape from real life. Just a common practice in today society I think.
Theres no problem with that, but i can easily say 70% are doing it for the stat bonuses and props.

[marc110]

Theres no problem with that, but i can easily say 70% are doing it for the stat bonuses and props.

yeah i have too girls and two boys simples


ps why did this get more to nowheres vil

[Gokudera]

yeah i have too girls and two boys simples


ps why did this get more to nowheres vil

Because they moved it to the Community forums.
everyone knows the community forum section of any site, is always ignored and filled with ranting spam.

[ashley50]

it's a Rant...

[Gokudera]

it's a Rant...

your point...

[TheAstarion]

Well, what would you rather look at when grinding from 1 to 200?

Big ugly man-butt?

Rappysuit'd lardass whose entire point is to annoy the entire 4th floor? (Not as much an issue in PSP2 thankfully, they're still annoying but at least they're ostensibly helping you fight...)

Little lolita girl? (Impossibly Huge Boobs optional)

Or a nice juicy thick chick?

Whole point is, character creation is just that, character creation. Not rocket science. Works both ways too, the majority of "coat" items are for male characters. The only ones we have for women are full parts, men have the braves, nobles and vigor coats. Telling me any girl in PSU has never worn a piece of clothing that comes down past her ass?

IMO, clothing should be universal. In general, anyway. Natsume Shu's coat is basically a male version of the Guardians Formal. An Illuminus coat would look pretty good on a girl, with that cleavage window.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lXs0LfV1108

[Gokudera]

Well, what would you rather look at when grinding from 1 to 200?

Big ugly man-butt?

Rappysuit'd lardass whose entire point is to annoy the entire 4th floor? (Not as much an issue in PSP2 thankfully, they're still annoying but at least they're ostensibly helping you fight...)

Little lolita girl? (Impossibly Huge Boobs optional)

Or a nice juicy thick chick?

Whole point is, character creation is just that, character creation. Not rocket science. Works both ways too, the majority of "coat" items are for male characters. The only ones we have for women are full parts, men have the braves, nobles and vigor coats. Telling me any girl in PSU has never worn a piece of clothing that comes down past her ass?

IMO, clothing should be universal. In general, anyway. Natsume Shu's coat is basically a male version of the Guardians Formal. An Illuminus coat would look pretty good on a girl, with that cleavage window. Not to mention, guys wear maid costumes all the time. (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lXs0LfV1108)
I must be the only guy who takes pride in how his character looks.
and actually, I'd rather look at a bad ass male character, since I mostly set my name as a favored character in animes.
and juicy thick chick? this is why the rant was made. Its a game, not a porno.

[Kenbog]

the phantasy star series allways had a heart for female genders,
PS1 Alis
PS2 Nei
PS4 Alys,Rika
PSO Epi1 Rico Epi3 Sil'fer Epi4 Rupika
PSZ Sarisa
PSU Epi1 Karen PSP Vivienne, Epi2 Laia, Epi3 Lumia PSP2 Emilia PSP2i Nagisa

[Gokudera]

the phantasy star series allways had a heart for female genders,
PS1 Alis
PS2 Nei
PS4 Alys,Rika
PSO Epi1 Rico Epi3 Sil'fer Epi4 Rupika
PSZ Sarisa
PSU Epi1 Karen PSP Vivienne, Epi2 Laia, Epi3 Lumia PSP2 Emilia PSP2i Nagisa

These are NPC. not player created characters.
while yes, I see your point as PS uses girl character npcs for the main story;
You also have to think: why would they use a guy character.
If the majority of their players apparently are horny children; why use a male.

and Player created characters; well. It just shames me to see people whore themself out for meseta like in PS for the 360.
or for Party's and mission raids.

[Typestatic]

[SPOILER-BOX]http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v203/ashley_riot/cc0df3cfea25e6a02ccc8a363a39b430bb3ada680.jpg[/SPOILER-BOX]

Yayoi crossdress <3

[AlexCraig]

I generally have 2 male and two female characters on PSO. My RAcaseal is pretty awesome to play. What's wrong with having female characters when you are a male player?

[DarkPhoton]

I picked female because of the stats >>

[Rashiid]

I picked female because of the stats >>

This, for the most part.
Also, nothing is more entertaining than a little robo-chick with a giant ass laser cannon. ;-)

[Zain_Winters]

I picked female because of the stats >>

DarkPhoton how dare you be an elitist?!,(/sarcasm) although i see nothing wrong with picking a female, even though the role playing aspect of PSP2 is close to imposable because of its typing system (as far as i'm concerned). if you wanna make a chick, make a chick. if you're going to let your' imagination go so you can enjoy the game and make your' own character, then go for it. make whatever you want. d(^.^)m

[DarkPhoton]

Because I'm cool like that yo.

[Randomness]

Welcome to rants.

[BIG OLAF]

I've always been a guy that makes 90% of their characters female. In PSU, I have 3/4 characters female. In PSP1, my character was female. In PSP2, the three characters I've made (so far) are female.

I put a lot of time and effort not just into my characters weapons, but also their looks. Actually, I probably spend more time and effort on clothes and makeovers. I get a lot of compliments (on PSU) about how my character(s) look. I think fashion and stuff like that is fun in games like PSU/PSP2. Call me a freak, a "G.I.R.L", or whatever. I really don't care what anyone else thinks.

[HAYABUSA-FMW-]

yeah i have too girls and two boys simples


ps why did this get more to nowheres vil

Because they moved it to the Community forums.
everyone knows the community forum section of any site, is always ignored and filled with ranting spam.

i was greatly dissapointed
Atfirst, I was like, W00t stamp.
but then when i got 3,
The Offery Box:
i got beef kabob wands,
other 2 i got mikuna sets,
which i was unable to use due to it being girls only.

why not just make it so guys and get male items ._.

(no srs. I enjoyed them when iw as level 30.)
Better tighten up your posts, with caps, format right, spellings.
All that good stuff so it don't look like (text mssg) "ranting spam." ^^;

Other forums may not have had interesting people in the community parts, but several do. If you think it doesn't, nobody's fault but your own, since you're a part of the community too.

[Tetsaru]

I agree that if there were so many female-only items, there should be an equal amount of male-only items as well (they ruined the Stag Cutlery in PSU by making it B rank). But, seeing how a lot of gamers are guys who fit the "otaku" stereotype and enjoy making frilly girl characters in games, it doesn't surprise me that Sega would cater to that demographic.


Its a game, not a porno.

Such things DO coexist, you know. :wacko:

Not to mention, fanservice tends to be commonplace in JRPG's. :confused:

Also, Rule #34. :wacko:

[DarkPhoton]

Ahhh rule 34. The backbone of the internet society. Where no girl is underaged and impossible relationships can exist. Also fits well with another internet rule of thumb.

"MMORPG's Where the men are men, And the women are also men."

[marc110]

Because they moved it to the Community forums.
everyone knows the community forum section of any site, is always ignored and filled with ranting spam.


i just found the shop dont know how we got it a high level opended it or sumthing rare areas nice

[Allison_W]

I honestly find myself wondering why there are any gender-specific items or gendered stat differences. Both are pretty backwards where modern game design is concerned. It seems to me like the entire basis of this thread could be avoided if Sega would just get with the program and join the rest of us in the 21st century.

[BIG OLAF]

I honestly find myself wondering why there are any gender-specific items or gendered stat differences. Both are pretty backwards where modern game design is concerned. It seems to me like the entire basis of this thread could be avoided if Sega would just get with the program and join the rest of us in the 21st century.

Are you trying to say that you'd like every outfit in the game to be unisex? As in, like the Bikini Swimwear and Rappy Suit, where there's a female and male version? That would be a nice idea. Have a female Illuminus Coat, have a male Voloyal Set (I shudder to think what it would look like..), etc. Then, no one could complain.

[Allison_W]

Are you trying to say that you'd like every outfit in the game to be unisex? As in, like the Bikini Swimwear and Rappy Suit, where there's a female and male version? That would be a nice idea. Have a female Illuminus Coat, have a male Voloyal Set (I shudder to think what it would look like..), etc. Then, no one could complain.

Exactly.

And it's not without precedent, either; the Fable series does it, even with the shmexy clothes. Though it's worth noting that it's not so much that there's a male and female "version" of every clothing item as that any given item of clothing can be worn by anyone.

So the male Voloyal Set would be... exactly the same, except over a flat chest. And not-flat loins.

[Tetsaru]

I honestly find myself wondering why there are any gender-specific items or gendered stat differences. Both are pretty backwards where modern game design is concerned. It seems to me like the entire basis of this thread could be avoided if Sega would just get with the program and join the rest of us in the 21st century.

Personally, I'd rather see stat differences between genders. It kinda makes more sense to me - guys tend to be physically stronger (higher ATP/DFP stats) than women, while women tend to be smarter and more intellectual (higher MST/TP stats), etc. It's not always that way, but if the differences are negligible anyway, I don't see why people should make such a fuss about it, unless you're one of those hardcore/elitist people who want to stat-stack and BIGNUMBARZ as much as possible. If you're a female character, you can easily fix that lower ATP problem just by having good gear anyway, and often times gender-specific equipment tends to give you an edge over other equipment of the same level that other characters have to use instead. And if GAS is out for PSU 360 now, that just gives you more options (although I was on PC/PS2, so I don't know what those options are specifically).

I'd much rather see this kind of variety and uniqueness in an online community rather than everyone using the same gear and wearing the same clothes and having the same exact stats, especially at endgame levels, y'know? Imagine a game where everyone had access to the same stuff and the same stats; there's going to be items that are CLEARLY the best in the game and everyone who has maxed out their characters (with their EXACT SAME STATS) will eventually have one. If all the max-level veteran players except Jimmy, who values the uniqueness and individuality of his character over his stats, has the Super-Omega Best-Weapon-In-The-Game Sword, then Jimmy gets cast aside for being different and weaker statistically than the rest of the community, just because he doesn't want to use that weapon and be another face in the crowd. It's like comparing a school that has a uniform policy/strict dress code, where everyone is forced to almost look like clones of each other, to another school that allows more freedom in letting people wear what they choose, and everyone has a better sense of individuality and expression, even though other people may or may not like it.

And in terms of both genders being able to wear the same clothes... I'd say that'd depend on the clothes. Basic shirts, jackets, shoes... sure, why not. But, just because they CAN wear them doesn't mean they SHOULD; for example, I wouldn't want to see trannies or guys in drag running around, or fat male characters be able to wear the Voloyal outfit and suddenly have man-boobs, because we all know that's one of the things that outfit does on female characters anyway, lol. The male bikini swimwear was bad enough... *rips eyes out with crowbar* People who enjoy trolling a lot would have a field day with that kind of shit, and unfortunately you can't blacklist/block actual character models (at least not on PSU), so they could still go around "nanoblasting" you in the lobbies and you couldn't do anything about it. I HATED people that did that, like they had nothing else better to do with their lives except chase you around the lobby. And stuff like the Rappy costumes, while cool to make them available for everyone, were creepy and annoying (damn furries... sorry, they creep me the fuck out), and determining which ones were male or female, or CAST/non-CAST was rather confusing.

[Allison_W]

Personally, I'd rather see stat differences between genders. It kinda makes more sense to me - guys tend to be physically stronger (higher ATP/DFP stats) than women, while women tend to be smarter and more intellectual (higher MST/TP stats), etc. It's not always that way, but if the differences are negligible anyway, I don't see why people should make such a fuss about it, unless you're one of those hardcore/elitist people who want to stat-stack and BIGNUMBARZ as much as possible. If you're a female character, you can easily fix that lower ATP problem just by having good gear anyway, and often times gender-specific equipment tends to give you an edge over other equipment of the same level that other characters have to use instead. And if GAS is out for PSU 360 now, that just gives you more options (although I was on PC/PS2, so I don't know what those options are specifically).

I'd much rather see this kind of variety and uniqueness in an online community rather than everyone using the same gear and wearing the same clothes and having the same exact stats, especially at endgame levels, y'know? Imagine a game where everyone had access to the same stuff and the same stats; there's going to be items that are CLEARLY the best in the game and everyone who has maxed out their characters (with their EXACT SAME STATS) will eventually have one. If all the max-level veteran players except Jimmy, who values the uniqueness and individuality of his character over his stats, has the Super-Omega Best-Weapon-In-The-Game Sword, then Jimmy gets cast aside for being different and weaker statistically than the rest of the community, just because he doesn't want to use that weapon and be another face in the crowd. It's like comparing a school that has a uniform policy/strict dress code, where everyone is forced to almost look like clones of each other, to another school that allows more freedom in letting people wear what they choose, and everyone has a better sense of individuality and expression, even though other people may or may not like it.

And in terms of both genders being able to wear the same clothes... I'd say that'd depend on the clothes. Basic shirts, jackets, shoes... sure, why not. But, just because they CAN wear them doesn't mean they SHOULD; for example, I wouldn't want to see trannies or guys in drag running around, or fat male characters be able to wear the Voloyal outfit and suddenly have man-boobs, because we all know that's one of the things that outfit does on female characters anyway, lol. The male bikini swimwear was bad enough... *rips eyes out with crowbar* People who enjoy trolling a lot would have a field day with that kind of shit, and unfortunately you can't blacklist/block actual character models (at least not on PSU), so they could still go around "nanoblasting" you in the lobbies and you couldn't do anything about it. I HATED people that did that, like they had nothing else better to do with their lives except chase you around the lobby. And stuff like the Rappy costumes, while cool to make them available for everyone, were creepy and annoying (damn furries... sorry, they creep me the fuck out), and determining which ones were male or female, or CAST/non-CAST was rather confusing.

You know, if you're going to talk about how it makes sense for the genders to have stat differences because they have some (mostly poorly researched, atrociously reported, culturally magnified, and curiously ambiguous, with the sole exception of physical strength) stat differences in real life, I'm going to add that trannies and guys in drag also exist in real life, so suck it up. That, and ten bucks says that the guy "nanoblasting" you in the lobby will still be wearing the male bikini swimwear, not a FOmarl replica or even a Voloyal.

Seriously, what would you rather have to sit through: a room of more absurdly large-chested lolis in Magical Princesses, or a room of guys in formal dresses and heels? (I'll admit, however, on the matter of guys in Magical Princesses, I got nuthin'.)

It also occurs to me that no one says they don't want to see gals in drag. Why the double-standard?

Anyway, on the mechanical issues... no, I really don't see a reason to keep gender differences in stats. Dare I say this is one of those issues on which escapism > pseudo-realism. I admit I'm kind of putting myself in the shoes of--to try and put an image to the perspective--a hypothetical 13-year-old tomboy still fuming at how the male peers she used to compete with just fine are now outpacing her, and thinking about how much it would suck to install a new escapism outlet only to discover that her hunter gets a chick penalty to her most important stat, even if a small one.

That said, yes, I agree that not everyone should end up with all the same equipment and all the same stats... but providing decent customization options and actually balancing the stats and equipment should be enough, I'd think. The fact that armour doesn't dictate appearance like it does in every other game is a huge improvement over the status quo as it is.

Now that I've spoken on what should be the case, however, I'll make some speculation as to what I expect to actually happen. Gender differences in stats will probably stay, to my chagrin. There will probably still be a huge divide in clothing options, without a lot of honestly "neutral" clothes to work with (again to my chagrin), much like in PSO and PSU. However, weapons and armour with gender requirements will probably be vastly reduced: in PSZ, for instance, only a couple of joke spears were gender-restricted, and only two or three armours (though it is a real pain in the ass that one of them is the single best ranger armour in the game).

[ShinMaruku]

Given that this is a Japanese game and the Japanese have a rather 'special' view on things I would not put too much thought into it.

[Tetsaru]

You know, if you're going to talk about how it makes sense for the genders to have stat differences because they have some (mostly poorly researched, atrociously reported, culturally magnified, and curiously ambiguous, with the sole exception of physical strength) stat differences in real life, I'm going to add that trannies and guys in drag also exist in real life, so suck it up.

Ok, fair enough, but in my defense, I DID say "it's not always that way." :razz:


That, and ten bucks says that the guy "nanoblasting" you in the lobby will still be wearing the male bikini swimwear, not a FOmarl replica or even a Voloyal.

Perhaps, but given the option for male characters to wear female clothes, I wouldn't be surprised if this wasn't the case. There are a lot of creepy people on the internet, y'know. =x


Seriously, what would you rather have to sit through: a room of more absurdly large-chested lolis in Magical Princesses, or a room of guys in formal dresses and heels?

I'd have to go with the absurdly large-chested lolis in Magical Princess outfits... not necessarily for the loli part or the Magical Princess part, but for the absurdly large-chested part. (If you knew me well enough, you'd understand.) ^^;

Seeing male characters dressed in... well, dresses might be worth a few lulz at first, but I'd be moreso creeped out because well... I don't swing that way, lol. The shota-bot PM was creepy enough for me... *shudders*

I guess it would be wrong of me to say that I want players to have options in a game and then say they shouldn't be able to wear opposite-gender clothing, but at the same time, I believe opening those options up might suggest that the game is catering to a specific demographic - in this case, cross-dressers. On one hand, this would provide some rather unique gameplay (I can't think of any games off the top of my head other than Fable, I think Saints Row 2, and that one part in FF7 where you could cross-dress), but on the other hand, would that cause a cross-dresser majority in the online community, making some players who want to dress "normally" feel a bit out of place? OR, would it be that cross-dressers who like video games fall under a demographic that just isn't very marketable, and would thus make such a game mechanic largely undesirable if it provides no substantial gameplay benefits other than aesthetics?

Maybe there should just be a Rocky Horror Picture Show MMO or something. :wacko:


It also occurs to me that no one says they don't want to see gals in drag. Why the double-standard?

I dunno... usually when I see or hear about girls dressing up like guys, they often turn out to be lesbians. Maybe that's a bad assumption, I dunno. Perhaps more gay/lesbian characters should be in video games? Nowadays, I could see that happening. Localization and similar issues tend to get in the way a lot though, unfortunately.


That said, yes, I agree that not everyone should end up with all the same equipment and all the same stats... but providing decent customization options and actually balancing the stats and equipment should be enough, I'd think. The fact that armour doesn't dictate appearance like it does in every other game is a huge improvement over the status quo as it is.

I liked how PSU implemented line shields into the clothing, but at the same time, sometimes I'd prefer to see my character in a badass set of armor or battle gear rather than some trendy outfit you'd wear at a party or something. Maybe that's one reason why I like CASTs a lot, lol.


Now that I've spoken on what should be the case, however, I'll make some speculation as to what I expect to actually happen. Gender differences in stats will probably stay, to my chagrin. There will probably still be a huge divide in clothing options, without a lot of honestly "neutral" clothes to work with (again to my chagrin), much like in PSO and PSU. However, weapons and armour with gender requirements will probably be vastly reduced: in PSZ, for instance, only a couple of joke spears were gender-restricted, and only two or three armours (though it is a real pain in the ass that one of them is the single best ranger armour in the game).

Yeah, I'd have to agree with this. Perhaps it would be better to just restrict items moreso on class, rather than gender or race. I wouldn't want to see a HUcast being able to wield a badass gun weapon that's more suited for Rangers, for example.

[Allison_W]

I guess it would be wrong of me to say that I want players to have options in a game and then say they shouldn't be able to wear opposite-gender clothing, but at the same time, I believe opening those options up might suggest that the game is catering to a specific demographic - in this case, cross-dressers. On one hand, this would provide some rather unique gameplay (I can't think of any games off the top of my head other than Fable, I think Saints Row 2, and that one part in FF7 where you could cross-dress), but on the other hand, would that cause a cross-dresser majority in the online community, making some players who want to dress "normally" feel a bit out of place? OR, would it be that cross-dressers who like video games fall under a demographic that just isn't very marketable, and would thus make such a game mechanic largely undesirable if it provides no substantial gameplay benefits other than aesthetics?

Maybe there should just be a Rocky Horror Picture Show MMO or something. :wacko:

Doesn't seem to have killed the Fable series or Saints Row 2.

[Tetsaru]

Doesn't seem to have killed the Fable series or Saints Row 2.

Saints Row 2's gameplay was much like the GTA series, which has been generally celebrated among gaming communities for the great amount of freedom you had to do what you wanted: proceed with the main storyline, or just dick around by killing random people, blowing stuff up, and seeing how long you can run from the cops. I REALLY don't think people were into it for the cross-dressing. Granted, you could probably come up with some crazy stuff - just check out this video of someone who made Morshu from the infamous Zelda CD-i game:


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qFXQUMEvc8A

As for Fable... personally, I haven't played the series myself, but I've heard a lot of people were disappointed with its creator Peter Molyneux for over-hyping the shit out of it. That, and something about the second game having a WTF kind of ending or something... oh well, I think the third one comes out near Halloween, so we'll see how it goes. :confused:

[Kanju]

I don't think that opening up the option to cross-dress would necessarily cater the game to a cross-dressing demographic. My concern to opening up that avenue is that cross-dressing would be used to troll others, which could promote negative reactions to cross-dressers.

[HAYABUSA-FMW-]

Such things DO coexist, you know. :wacko:

Not to mention, fanservice tends to be commonplace in JRPG's. :confused:

Also, Rule #34. :wacko:
Too many wacko per, so soon after another, and crap nobody is talking about.

been had reported
been waitin'

:x

Ahhh rule 34. The backbone of the internet society. Where no girl is underaged and impossible relationships can exist. Also fits well with another internet rule of thumb.

"MMORPG's Where the men are men, And the women are also men."
No, 1st part.

Okay, 2nd part. And the kids are police, so stop that first part. No, go ahead and keep doing it.

[Ishia]

No, 1st part.


You have no idea. I've had my retinas explode due to the things I've seen.

[HAYABUSA-FMW-]

This is not that kind of Internet place.

Don't be bringing it here. As you're saying, you don't want to see (again) either. So we can be a haven without.

Yeah things exist, but why talk about the WTF ones. That ain't the topic here.

Shame the person who brought it up, like they might like that stuff or something! On their mind, had to tell other people in public. Forshame. :no:

[Ishia]

SteveIrwinxStingray

I hath seen it, I hath wept.

[Allison_W]

Saints Row 2's gameplay was much like the GTA series, which has been generally celebrated among gaming communities for the great amount of freedom you had to do what you wanted: proceed with the main storyline, or just dick around by killing random people, blowing stuff up, and seeing how long you can run from the cops. I REALLY don't think people were into it for the cross-dressing. Granted, you could probably come up with some crazy stuff - just check out this video of someone who made Morshu from the infamous Zelda CD-i game:

YouTube - Morshu plays Saints Row 2 (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qFXQUMEvc8A)

As for Fable... personally, I haven't played the series myself, but I've heard a lot of people were disappointed with its creator Peter Molyneux for over-hyping the shit out of it. That, and something about the second game having a WTF kind of ending or something... oh well, I think the third one comes out near Halloween, so we'll see how it goes. :confused:

Yeah, Peter Molyneux is the kind of guy you need to keep a muzzle on. I don't think he's an intentional liar so much as he's very exuberant about the design process and wants to share all of his ideas, and it's easy to get disappointed when not all of them get into the game.

I went into Fable II not really sure whether I'd like it or not, and ended up loving it. So far, Fable III is sounding a lot like Fable II with a new storyline and a whole lot of complaints addressed (and they've been able to provide evidence of a lot of the new changes; it's the ones that are harder to "show," like the judgment system, that I'm thinking of in "wait and see" terms). So I'm not expecting the Best Game Ever, but I am expecting a pretty good one.

As for Saints Row 2... no, people weren't in it for the cross-dressing specifically. They were in it for the freedom as a whole, which had many component parts, many of which would be relatively insignificant alone. I, admittedly, was actually very impressed by the lengths they went to to make the player character customizable; a lot of the people I know who played the game had fun with the character creation.

Also I would like to add that it is completely possible to cross-dress in real life, but that hasn't turned into a cross-dressing haven yet; just thought I'd throw that out there.

As far as people using cross-dressing to troll, I don't really see it making trolling more prolific or actually worse; "nanoblasting" people in a tiger-striped speedo is and always will be the gold standard where lobby molestation is concerned. There will probably be some Bridget jokes clustered at the beginning followed by relatively sparse ones after that.

The argument that it might promote negative views of cross-dressers is also kind of odd--if the tack you're taking is that you're concerned about non-trolling cross-dressers, which seems to be the case, the demographic you're trying to look after would probably be better served by not hiding them under the rug.

I somehow never expected all of this debate over a solution that amounts to the simplest form of, "Here, now everyone can shut up about about the other sex getting cooler toys or better clothes." I should have known better than to be so naive.


SteveIrwinxStingray

I hath seen it, I hath wept.

:gonk:

[Nitro Vordex]

SteveIrwinxStingray

I hath seen it, I hath wept.
Casual.

[Kanju]

Also I would like to add that it is completely possible to cross-dress in real life, but that hasn't turned into a cross-dressing haven yet; just thought I'd throw that out there.
Oh, it definitely is. However, it's a lot less looked down upon in an escapist medium than in real life, as far as males are concerned.



As far as people using cross-dressing to troll, I don't really see it making trolling more prolific or actually worse; "nanoblasting" people in a tiger-striped speedo is and always will be the gold standard where lobby molestation is concerned. There will probably be some Bridget jokes clustered at the beginning followed by relatively sparse ones after that.
What I meant was more along the lines of replacing speedo-trolling, although I do agree about that golden standard; the only thing I can see being more ridiculous(barring the logical conclusion) would be something like each gender wearing the opposite's swimwear.


The argument that it might promote negative views of cross-dressers is also kind of odd--if the tack you're taking is that you're concerned about non-trolling cross-dressers, which seems to be the case, the demographic you're trying to look after would probably be better served by not hiding them under the rug.
I agree. I was using that as an example as to why it possibly wouldn't be explored. A pretty flimsy and unexplained example, I must admit.

[Allison_W]

Oh, it definitely is. However, it's a lot less looked down upon in an escapist medium than in real life, as far as males are concerned.

Thankfully.


What I meant was more along the lines of replacing speedo-trolling, although I do agree about that golden standard; the only thing I can see being more ridiculous(barring the logical conclusion) would be something like each gender wearing the opposite's swimwear.

I can't help but think that a guy in the women's skirt-bottom swimsuit would be fairly merciful compared to the banana hammock. That said, the bikini swimwear is one of those items that doesn't appear to have any difference between sexes other than the presence or absence of a top, so the only salient difference between a guy wearing the standard banana hammock and the "female" bikini swimwear would be whether they're wearing the top or not and possibly colours. So... there you go. (As for female characters and the presence or absence of the top, I could see scratching the male undershirt to make equipping a bare-chest top unnecessary, or--and I would advise this for the bare minimum of items--making the bare-chest top male-only. For other tops that involve chest exposure... I'll use the men's boaboa vest as an example: adding a brassiere of sorts underneath that matches the standard top's ruggedness for the female morph. That would be pretty aces.)


I agree. I was using that as an example as to why it possibly wouldn't be explored. A pretty flimsy and unexplained example, I must admit.

Forgiven.

[Kanju]

I can't help but think that a guy in the women's skirt-bottom swimsuit would be fairly merciful compared to the banana hammock.

Ha, I forgot that there were more than one swimsuit set per gender. Which reminds me of that time when the males got the badass Vigor Coat while the females got... another swimsuit.

[Allison_W]

Ha, I forgot that there were more than one swimsuit set per gender. Which reminds me of that time when the males got the badass Vigor Coat while the females got... another swimsuit.

See? That's the kind of thing I'm getting at. Isn't that a bitch? I'd much rather take the Vigor Coat, presumably following the thread of the example I gave with the men's Boaboa Vest, above, and adding a matching rugged halter under the coat. Keep the abs, though.

[Tetsaru]

After reading a few more of these posts, perhaps it would be better in the long run (maybe when PSO2 comes out) to implement some sort of "make your own clothes" editor - a way to add user-based content to the game, similar to how games like LittleBigPlanet, ModNation Racers, and Animal Crossing have done. Thinking in terms of programming, especially seeing how Sega/Sonic Team likes to reskin stuff, they'd probably have to go in and edit a lot of the male clothes that are shirtless to add in a top for females. Instead of doing that, why not have a large selection of preset options available for players to combine in ways of their own choosing? I think it would be a lot easier to program "Basic Shirt Template A" with different color, texture, and layering options rather than taking an item already in the game, editing it, and then release a patch for everyone to download so that it works properly... granted, I don't see either of these things happening in PSU at this point.

But think about it - a PSO game where you could MAKE YOUR OWN CLOTHES. Hell, if Sega was smart, they could even let you post your designs to the servers and let people download them from your shop or something (dunno if they should be sold, since you can't really set a good price value on that kind of stuff). Clans and guilds could have their own uniforms! And seeing how there's a fashion thread in the PSU forums, I'm sure a bunch of people would go nuts with something like this... although there WOULD need to be stricter moderation if it was implemented so that people wouldn't go around drawing suggestive things everywhere.

[BIG OLAF]

After reading a few more of these posts, perhaps it would be better in the long run (maybe when PSO2 comes out) to implement some sort of "make your own clothes" editor - a way to add user-based content to the game

That's a wonderful idea. I've been saying the same thing since I started playing a female on PSU (about two years ago). Hell, if Sega's too lazy to implement an entire clothes creator/editor, I think the least they should do is give us a feature to make our clothes any color we want.

One of the most horrible things for me in PSU is seeing a cool piece of clothing, only to have it -magically- not come in the desired color. You should just be able to buy a stock white or gray color, then take it to the makeover shop and change the color of your clothes, using a "color pallet" similar to the one used for hair, eyes, lips, etc. As simple as that is, it would make characters more original, and add plenty more depth to the character customization.

[Allison_W]

Tetsaru, that is a really good idea and I love it. I'm not the most creative person in the world, but I think I could make use of the layering option there, assuming it means what I think it does (the ability to decide what's over or under an item, for instance).

Hold on, I'll go back through the PSU clothes gallery to see what shirtless tops would have to be fiddled with (or, at the very least, how many bras would have to be added to such a system to accommodate the clothes that made it into PSU)... I mean, you did say Sega likes to reskin stuff; they are known to add occasional fiddly bits to the model rather than just palette swaps. So I'll be back in a moment.

[Allison_W]

All right, back. There actually aren't that many that would definitely need to be modified for a female character--some would definitely show cleavage, but so do a lot of the standard female clothes. I'll list both categories here.

First, the definitelies and probablies:
Waiwad Vest: http://www.pso-world.com/items/psu/8/2726/waiwad_vest/#pic
Vigor Coat: http://www.pso-world.com/items/psu/8/1863/vigor_coat/#pic
Vilogis Torso: http://www.pso-world.com/items/psu/9/328/vilogis_torso/#pic
Men's Boaboa Vest: http://www.pso-world.com/items/psu/8/1761/boaboa_vest__male_/#pic

(Hell, I'm not 100% sure the above save for the Waiwad are even clearly worse than some of the female clothes already around... the bar is pretty low since PSP2 came out and dropped the Magical Princess on the discussion, though admittedly I'm not really including PSP2 clothes in this.)

And those with cleavage that may or may not call for being shored up (I'm pretty sure the Magical Princess, again, is worse than all of the following); I'd imagine doing so would require quite a bit less detail than fixing the items on the def/prob list:
Men's Fujifiji Vest: http://www.pso-world.com/items/psu/8/2548/fujifiji_vest/#pic
Goshkaria Top: http://www.pso-world.com/items/psu/8/2723/goshkaria_top/#pic
Kouze Jacket: http://www.pso-world.com/items/psu/8/2542/kouze_jacket/#pic
Men's Miyabi-kata (see also the men's CAS-yukata): http://www.pso-world.com/items/psu/8/2427/miyabi_kata__male_/
Illuminus Coat: http://www.pso-world.com/items/psu/8/3195/illuminus_coat/#pic

The men's swimsuit trunks aren't actually a problem, as just making them a bottom and either ditching the tank top in the men's underwear or making the male "swimsuit top" the only male-only item makes the problem go away.

Hell, even if Sega wanted to minimize work and not add anything extra to the tops that would require fiddling to make decent for a female wearer, there are still a lot of clothes and parts that could be added to the equation on both sides by only making the "indecent" ones unwearable.

[Kanju]

You should just be able to buy a stock white or gray color, then take it to the makeover shop and change the color of your clothes, using a "color pallet" similar to the one used for hair, eyes, lips, etc.

I've never understood why Sega didn't do this in the first place. Oh wait, it's SEGA.

[Allison_W]

I'm sorry, did I say I wasn't doing PSP2? I'll try. I'm not sure it's all the clothes, and I'm sure it doesn't include the DLC ones, but I Google-fu'd my way over to psumods.co.uk to find a gallery of new PSP2 clothes. Most of the new items in that wouldn't require any fiddling to keep them decent, either, with a few exceptions: the male bath towels, the Shizuru Replica, and one item that has bonus cleavage in the Kraz Replica. That, and while female characters did get a few badass clothing items, the males got more again, like the outfits that let your male beast onry get beast-sized.

[Seth Astra]

A clothing editor could be a good idea. Could. I still would like to be able to use premade cloths. Simply because I don't expect user-made clothing to be all that impressive. However, adding it in as an option would be a good idea.

[Nitro Vordex]

Enjoy people making a dress out of male genitalia.

And I'm pretty sure a clothes editor isn't really something new. If they were to implement some kind of clothes editor, it would probably get modded or white knighted to shit.

Then again, that would require someone actually doing something, so that would be a long shot. Editing the color palette is the only reasonable thing I could see. And even then, there's a lot to be edited, the PSU clothes were kinda colorful.

[Allison_W]

Yes, custom patterns would work out if and only if it had modding, and we know how good Sega is at that. :(

I'd just like to honestly have a less limited selection. The boys get 90% of the badass clothes, and 90% of the gal wardrobe is cutesy moe moe shit, stripper costumes, or cutesy moe moe stripper costumes.