The level designers need to be fired

[SELENNA]

I really enjoy Phantasy Star Portable 2. Already logged in more than 20 hours, and that's all offline, as I want to practice before jumping online, and also because I have cable Internet. But that's not the point.

The level design is awful. No wait, it's ABYSMAL

I'll resume how every layout works in PSP2 : clear room, get card, deactivate laser fence, repeat.

What made PSO great, among other things, was the exploration part. You had multiple choices of paths to take, some leading to chests, others deeper in the corresponding zone. Now, all you have are straightforward, dull, plain-looking rooms with no randomisation at all except for the monsters and drops. That's sad.

I know PSP2 is designed for short bursts of play but come on. Anyone feels the same way?

[Rashiid]

That's pretty much how PSU and any handheld version of it was. I'm sure PSO2 will have PSO stuff. Let PSU have PSU stuff.

[Temprus]

I'll resume how every layout works in PSP2 : clear room, get card, deactivate laser fence, repeat.

Odd... I remember this being exactly how it was in PSO.... Multiple paths.. sure... somewhat, but still..

Maybe my memory is fuzzy.... I dunno.^^;

[Seth Astra]

Not as bad as PSZ. Sure, there were branching paths, but it was all randomly generated. Which wouldn't be so bad, except there were only about... I'll say about 5 floorplans per area (of which there were only 7, excluding ET). Sure the traps/enemies/boxes were varied, but it was still impossible to shake the feeling that the room you're in... Looked just like where you were 2 rooms ago. Also, the rooms did pretty much work the same way.

P.S. Some of the levels do have branching paths. I know a late game story mission has branching paths and multiple objectives you have to accomplish in order to get an S rank. I forget which one, though.

[Rashiid]

I thought this thread would be about the mass amount of empty space in Moatoob desert levels.

[Aka]

The levels in PSO were never randomized. There was a fixed number of layouts for each area and they were very easy to memorise anyway.

[Mike]

Odd... I remember this being exactly how it was in PSO.... Multiple paths.. sure... somewhat, but still..

Maybe my memory is fuzzy.... I dunno.^^;

That was out it worked. Except for Caves 3 (and maybe the Undersea Plant) where there were a few round about ways to move through the level. Other areas were more or less linear.

[modoru]

...You say this, but Forest, Cave, Mines and Ruins only had about 3-4 map variations. I would know, I spammed Forest enough to notice. And just as well, this game does have a few dead ends for treasure chests, although not as noticeable as PSO's were. So... in reality, you're just judging a book pretty harshly. Keep playing other quests, you'll notice the smaller dead ends, etc. Just as well, I'm pretty sure all the maps have the same layouts because, well, they're the same quest. You get what I mean?


Not as bad as PSZ. Sure, there were branching paths, but it was all randomly generated. Which wouldn't be so bad, except there were only about... I'll say about 5 floorplans per area (of which there were only 7, excluding ET). Sure the traps/enemies/boxes were varied, but it was still impossible to shake the feeling that the room you're in... Looked just like where you were 2 rooms ago. Also, the rooms did pretty much work the same way.

P.S. Some of the levels do have branching paths. I know a late game story mission has branching paths and multiple objectives you have to accomplish in order to get an S rank. I forget which one, though.

Kasch Test, if I'm not mistaken.

[Seth Astra]

The levels in PSO were never randomized. There was a fixed number of layouts for each area and they were very easy to memorise anyway.
Assuming you're responding to me, which it appears you are, notice I said PSZ not PSO.

Edit:

Kasch Test, if I'm not mistaken.
Nope, main story. What was it? I know Maya and Lou are in party, and it takes place mostly inside that labororitory area. I am pretty sure it's the one where, spoiler, you are searching for Emilia after she runs away. Pretty sure it's 7-1, now that I think about it.

[Chukie sue]

I really enjoy Phantasy Star Portable 2. Already logged in more than 20 hours, and that's all offline, as I want to practice before jumping online, and also because I have cable Internet. But that's not the point.

The level design is awful. No wait, it's ABYSMAL

I'll resume how every layout works in PSP2 : clear room, get card, deactivate laser fence, repeat.

What made PSO great, among other things, was the exploration part. You had multiple choices of paths to take, some leading to chests, others deeper in the corresponding zone. Now, all you have are straightforward, dull, plain-looking rooms with no randomisation at all except for the monsters and drops. That's sad.

I know PSP2 is designed for short bursts of play but come on. Anyone feels the same way?

Ah I understand - sounds like a legitimate complaint.

Personally, though, I'm just enjoying my new PSP's graphics too much to notice anything else ;)

[modoru]

Assuming you're responding to me, which it appears you are, notice I said PSZ not PSO.

I'm pretty sure it was towards the first post.

[Aka]

Assuming you're responding to me, which it appears you are, notice I said PSZ not PSO.


I was responding to the original poster thank you very much.

[zrankfappa]

Yeah, most of the levels feel pretty linear. Theres only a few areas you have to go out of your way to clear to get S rank.. not very challenging. I can't complain though, theres more than enough missions to keep things fresh until 200.

An option to play a randomized mission like in PSZ wouldn't have hurt though.

[Zorafim]

A bit harsh, but I get where you're coming from. The fact that you need to kill every enemy in a stage, while sounding good on paper, means that exploration is dumbed down a bit. Things are less mazey. It's not like the entire game is horridly linear though, some missions have a nice deal of exploration to them (some story missions come to mind). Really though, I think the design idea shifted between games.

[DoubleJG]

I thought this thread would be about the mass amount of empty space in Moatoob desert levels.

This is my only "eh" when it comes to level design. However, I do sometimes enjoy the vastness that the deserts have, as it adds to the planet's personality.

[Shake]

I wouldn't say it is THAT bad. Most levels flow the same way you described, rinsing and repeating the same cycle over and over in any game. PSO was the same deal.

[Shakuri]

PSO did have more side rooms and paths that you could do things in that wouldn't contribute to you getting to the end of the area. But there weren't many stages with alternate paths to the end of the stage, at least not that I can remember.

[Dark_Ansem]

in infinity maps for custom missions will be randomly generated ;)

[Alexandria]

I really enjoy Phantasy Star Portable 2. Already logged in more than 20 hours, and that's all offline, as I want to practice before jumping online, and also because I have cable Internet. But that's not the point.

The level design is awful. No wait, it's ABYSMAL

I'll resume how every layout works in PSP2 : clear room, get card, deactivate laser fence, repeat.

What made PSO great, among other things, was the exploration part. You had multiple choices of paths to take, some leading to chests, others deeper in the corresponding zone. Now, all you have are straightforward, dull, plain-looking rooms with no randomisation at all except for the monsters and drops. That's sad.

I know PSP2 is designed for short bursts of play but come on. Anyone feels the same way?

The heck are you talking about? PSO yeah, there was exploration, but it was fucking pointless. There was one, MAYBE two directions you could go that take you to the right room. Everything else just took you to useless boxes that dropped monomates. Your claim would be justified if PSO wasn't ALSO linear as shit.

[Polantaris]

I really enjoy Phantasy Star Portable 2. Already logged in more than 20 hours, and that's all offline, as I want to practice before jumping online, and also because I have cable Internet. But that's not the point.

The level design is awful. No wait, it's ABYSMAL

I'll resume how every layout works in PSP2 : clear room, get card, deactivate laser fence, repeat.

What made PSO great, among other things, was the exploration part. You had multiple choices of paths to take, some leading to chests, others deeper in the corresponding zone. Now, all you have are straightforward, dull, plain-looking rooms with no randomisation at all except for the monsters and drops. That's sad.

I know PSP2 is designed for short bursts of play but come on. Anyone feels the same way?

To be honest, PSU wasn't that much different as far as I remember.
There were TECHNICALLY multiple paths, but the multiple paths just led to keys so that you could continue. If you went the wrong way towards the door first, you spent an extra 2-3 minutes going back and forth, I almost like the linear style better.

On the other hand, if you're going to complain about Level Design, I would complain about the fact that half the missions are carbon copies of PSU. That's more annoying. I mean, geeze I know it's based on the same universe, but at least make it feel like it's own game, and not a PSP version of PSU. I paid 40 some odd dollars for something I already owned because I had PSU, with a few tweaks.

Granted, PSP2 is a lot better with a lot of good changes, but when I got PSP1, that's what I thought. And although there are plenty of gameplay changes, the map issues and model issues still remain in my opinion. It's still basically a carbon copied game when you get past the story missions.

[Akaimizu]

Funny enough, I could raise the same complaint about PSO. Actually, a larger complaint. I found PSO levels to be a lot more ho-hum than these levels. Heck, a lot of these levels have more variety within the same level than what I found in many a PSO level, even with its varying arrangements for stuff like Caves, Mines, Ruins. A lot of stuff in PSO were just simple cookie-cutter templates arranged in a certain fashion. There was a bit of an improvement in Episode 2's level visuals, but it wasn't exactly a big bastion of variety either.

There are plenty of levels here with a few diversions off the main path. Some leading to teleports for other things, some found out by finding a breakable object that uncovers a path. The possibility for surprise teleports.

PSP2's levels, especially, were put together with a bit of expertise. A nice balance between having interesting layouts with varied terrain, hills, valleys, etc; and fine tuning to make sure pretty much every part of any level played without noticeable slowdown, for the player. I play Blue Burst, to this day, but I really think PSO's level design is romanticized. They just aren't as good as people seem to make them out to be. I can easily play any level in PSP2 and enjoy it, but there are plenty of times in which I'm almost forcing myself to play through Caves or Mines again in PSO. Mines has a couple of enemies that help keep it from being totally dull or annoying, but I wouldn't contribute that to the level design but enemy design.

[Dagger_32]

The only thing that seems to be missing for me are the bases you would get to after you beat a mission. Those were great, you would choose a mission, beat it and get to a base then you would choose a new mission path, get to a base, choose a new mission.... That was awesome! Way better than the just "pick a mission from the menu" thing they do now.

[FinalMasterM]

I would almost say that the level designs in PSO thru PSPo2 have all been the same. One forward path with maybe a few detours for treasures or more enemies to kill (like later Ruins in PSO).

You have to go into games like PSO (and Monster Hunter) with the thought that it's a dungeon crawler with monsters. It's not an open world MMO like LotRO or WoW.

[Akaimizu]

The only thing that seems to be missing for me are the bases you would get to after you beat a mission. Those were great, you would choose a mission, beat it and get to a base then you would choose a new mission path, get to a base, choose a new mission.... That was awesome! Way better than the just "pick a mission from the menu" thing they do now.

I get you. Though I would guess it saves file space. They pretty much structured you with a Space Ship that takes you to the site of any mission, this time.

And the variety I enjoy in these missions is that they aren't always just in a location. Often, midway through a mission, you'll go from an outside locale, to an inside locale, maybe back outside again, and then to a boss. It's almost equivalent to being in Forest, which leads to Caves, which leads to Mines all within one level.

[Polantaris]

The only thing that seems to be missing for me are the bases you would get to after you beat a mission. Those were great, you would choose a mission, beat it and get to a base then you would choose a new mission path, get to a base, choose a new mission.... That was awesome! Way better than the just "pick a mission from the menu" thing they do now.

Although I as well miss that system, I hated in PSU when I needed to spend money to get to a mission I wanted, or I had a new character that's never been on the planet the mission is on, and the mission I want is 5 missions away, then I'd be stuck doing crap I have no wish to do just so I can do one mission I actually want to.

The small amount of PSOBB I've played agrees with Akaimizu. I remember playing the various story missions for the Forest and Cave, and it's the same place over and over. The missions just have slightly different ways to go through each area, and slightly longer than the previous mission, exploring a few more rooms, but they were all exactly the same thing.

But I do have one major thing to say about that. At least PSOBB was one game. In PSU, PSP1, AND PSP2, there's several missions that are exactly the same. It's a new game, give me new missions. Who exactly liked seeing Fight for Food for the THIRD time? What about SEED Awakened and Darkness Satellite? Don't forget Valley of Carnage and Mine Defense. Or how about Sacred Stream, Demons Above, and White Beast? And these are all off the TOP OF MY HEAD! They didn't even bother to just keep the name for the sake of nostalgia. The missions are exactly the same. Sometimes a few of them have a block cut off, or they are in a different order, or for the example of Fight for Food, it's actually a combination of the two starter missions from PSU (I forget the other one's name). But this is all stuff we've all seen already. That's the part that bothers me. They charge us full price for a PSP game, and don't even bother to make it a new game...in ANY field, let alone map design.

Edit: Lol, I didn't even notice this got thrown into a new section.

[Zain_Winters]

Although I as well miss that system, I hated in PSU when I needed to spend money to get to a mission I wanted, or I had a new character that's never been on the planet the mission is on, and the mission I want is 5 missions away, then I'd be stuck doing crap I have no wish to do just so I can do one mission I actually want to.



in an odd way i enjoyed that slightly, it gave the odd feeling of exploration and wasnt that bad if you were headin to that place with a team in advance, well actually you could skip it all if your team was already at the lobby waiting for you, so that never really bothered me much. in fact i liked it in a weird way.

[Polantaris]

in an odd way i enjoyed that slightly, it gave the odd feeling of exploration and wasnt that bad if you were headin to that place with a team in advance, well actually you could skip it all if your team was already at the lobby waiting for you, so that never really bothered me much. in fact i liked it in a weird way.

Yeah, but if your character has never been there before, you still need to wade through all the missions to get there if I remember correctly. I could be wrong, it's been a while since I played myself.

It did give a feeling of exploration, but when I was on my 14x Newman trying to get a PWand Board....I had to wade through half of Parum to get to the mission I wanted to do cause I never did anything on Parum.

[Akaimizu]

True. Then again. You also see new mission added on top of the old missions as these progressed. Technically, this was similarly done in PSO.

We bought PSO version 1, PSO version 2, PSO Episode 1 and 2, PSO Blue Burst, and for all 4 of them we got the exact same stuff carried over for the first 4 areas.

[Nitro Vordex]

I thought this thread would be about the mass amount of empty space in Moatoob desert levels.
Empty space in a fucking desert? Who would have thought?

[HAYABUSA-FMW-]

Empty space in a fucking desert? Who would have thought?
Needs more :cactus: clearly.

-

Episode 1 Cmode, hunting better maps (well mobs too so its not a "zoo! :x," yet still a good map) - you just don't know. There was diaper mode Japan teams data collect surely, and still there were way too many map/spawn variations to ever say it wasn't randomized.

But just a shame everyone liked the grind to 200, some people multiple, so many, times, rather than one of the most interesting parts of the game - with those wanted, apparently, randomized maps.

Ep 2 C-mode changed it around, same maps always, hunts for better weapons.