VAmar or VAnewn?

[Crimson The FOmar]

Hey guys,

I'm aware theres loads of discussions on Vanguards, but it seems to fall into arguements about which race is best, Human or Newman? Just asking for advice between those two :P . I prefer to play males, males seem to have EVP and ATP over females which would seem to suit this class, whereas females have higher TP but it shouldnt matter as I'll only really be using support techs...

I don't have alot of time to play PSP2, so I'd like to pump my efforts into one character, but I can't decide between a Male Human Vanguard or Male Human Newman. Newmans of course have higher EVP, but I'm planning to gun and use twin sabers alot, so would a Human be better over the Newmans atrocious ATP?

Patience and tolerance for a newby would be most appreciated :P

[GreenArcher]

If you're planning to use guns a lot, make a Newman. Newman's have higher accuracy, which equates to higher damage with guns and less 0's.

[Alexandria]

Well, you'll be almost invincible at higher levels as a Newman. But you'll do the lowest damage out of all races as Vanguard. I'd personally recommend beast, since there's literally 1 point of difference in EVP at 200/30 for males, and you get much higher ATP. The ATA isn't a problem, especially when you get up in levels. Correct me if I'm mistaken, but Vanguard has the 2nd highest ATA multiplier I think?

Edit: Never mind, missed the part about guns. Beast is out in that case. Either would work fine, but if you really want to use guns a lot, Human would be the better choice, I guess. The combination of ATA and ATP they have makes them do more damage with guns.

[Crimson The FOmar]

If you're planning to use guns a lot, make a Newman. Newman's have higher accuracy, which equates to higher damage with guns and less 0's.


Human would be the better choice, I guess. The combination of ATA and ATP they have makes them do more damage with guns.

Haha, you've kinda said opposing things :-P....
and Alexandria, a beast vanguard was tempting, I could overlook the low accuracy and just equip some modules and use ACC weapons like daggers etc, but in some other discussions I've seen people tend to talk about exploiting the high EVA and generally going with races like Newman to boost it....I don't really mind whats optimal, I'm leaving my "trick" characters behind and going for something "good" for group playing...

[Ceresa]

@200
Human: 87 more atk
Newman: 18 more acc, 59 more eva

For guns, 18 acc = 3-4 more damage, 87 atk = 4-5 more damage, but actual accuracy is important too, but not really a meaningful difference here.

For twin sabers, press square one more time and raise the chain by 2 on your twinhandguns before switching to twinsabers to close the 87 atk gap, if that seems like a lot of effort then stay human. You should only need to do that on large mobs and bosses though. Trash mobs are either efficiently dispatched with incapacitate (multimode) or overkilled horribly (chain 1 and any PA...)

For EVA, will you play Max Attack Cross JP DL?

If yes, then newman, there's a finite amount of ways to improve evasion (and all of them are inconvenient as fuck), and having more base is precious.

If no, then human is fine, even a cast has enough EVA to comfortably evade everything outside Max Cross.

[GreenArcher]

Shooting Weapons

* Damage = ((BaseACC + BaseATK / 4) + (WeaponACC + WeaponATK / 4) * Attribute - EnemyDEF) / 5

So just looking at the first part, we have a Male Human Vanguard with 865atk 384acc at 200/30, and a Male Newman Vanguard with 778atk 402acc at 200/30.

Well crap, Alexandria is right :wacko: Male Human comes in at 600.25, and Male Newman at 596.5.

So a Human Vanguard will do considerably higher damage with melee weapons, and essentially the same ranged damage. The Newman Vanguard will still land more hits however, and have higher evasion

[Crimson The FOmar]

Interesting, I always like it when someone crunches the numbers for me... I HAVE the DLC yes, it was my ambition to try it when I got good enough :-P The only thing stopping me picking Newman was the worryingly large attack disparity...

[Crimson The FOmar]

87 atk = 4-5 more damage.

Wow, 87 atk only leads to 4-5 more damage?! no real contest then I guess...

[DarkPhoton]

Shooting Weapons

* Damage = ((BaseACC + BaseATK / 4) + (WeaponACC + WeaponATK / 4) * Attribute - EnemyDEF) / 5

So just looking at the first part, we have a Male Human Vanguard with 865atk 384acc at 200/30, and a Male Newman Vanguard with 778atk 402acc at 200/30.

Well crap, Alexandria is right :wacko: Male Human comes in at 600.25, and Male Newman at 596.5.

So a Human Vanguard will do considerably higher damage with melee weapons, and essentially the same ranged damage. The Newman Vanguard will still land more hits however, and have higher evasion

In high level game play, ACC is almost a moot stat when it comes to actual hitting. So that human will probably hit just as much as a newman once they hit level 80. Alex is a beast vanguard (lowest accuracy race) and he rarely misses.

[Alexandria]

Haha, you've kinda said opposing things :-P....
and Alexandria, a beast vanguard was tempting, I could overlook the low accuracy and just equip some modules and use ACC weapons like daggers etc, but in some other discussions I've seen people tend to talk about exploiting the high EVA and generally going with races like Newman to boost it....I don't really mind whats optimal, I'm leaving my "trick" characters behind and going for something "good" for group playing...

Like I said, the difference between 200/30 male beast and male newman's EVP is 1 point. You can most definitely exploit the invincibility of EVP as beast. :P

[Crimson The FOmar]

Like I said, the difference between 200/30 male beast and male newman's EVP is 1 point. You can most definitely exploit the invincibility of EVP as beast. :P

*sigh* :dead:
I suppose it's really just down to personal choice now, what Ceresa said about ATK annoyingly put a wrench in my mental processes, haha, but if the end-game folks say ACC doesnt really matter I supose I'd go human over beast for the mirage blast. (I was quite annoyed that the invincibility nanoblast isn't a lvl 20 anymore, AND it has a chance to turn into a form that can team-kill) All the vanguard videos I've seen on youtube are beasts/casts though oddly...

Gah, I'm not cut out for this strategic planning :-P

[Alexandria]

Invincible can't go black nano. Only silver and gold can.

[Omunall]

In high level game play, ACC is almost a moot stat when it comes to actual hitting. So that human will probably hit just as much as a newman once they hit level 80. Alex is a beast vanguard (lowest accuracy race) and he rarely misses.

Sorry to bring up an old post but this has gotten me curious. Reading through this topic, i am to understand that ACC is only really a benefit in the early levels to help, but in late game/end game a beasts ACC will do well? Does this only count toward melee or will they do as well with rifles and grenades as well?

I'm loving my newman right now, but if the ACC difference isn't noteworthy, i'm not sure that it's worth using over the beast. I'dbeen under the impression that ACC was an important stat in the game, but if it isn't then it sort of breaks down the system to a race+role feel.

[Wayu]

One thing you're all forgetting - PP.

Newmans have the highest PP and second highest PP regeneration rate. Beasts, though, have the lowest in both fields. Humans are second and third respectively.

I personally play a female Newman Braver/Vanguard, giving her the highest EVP of the females, albeit with the lowest attack power in the game. However, that's easily offset with the Critical Power ability, which increases critical, Just Attack, and Chain Break by 150%. Yes, 150%, if sakura.spoiler.net is to be believed.

-Wayu

[Sienna]

Beasts do not have the lowest PP.
- Casts do, and PP is easily offset by building a chain with a melee weapon.

In the end.
- Atk is of less importance as it is made nigh useless by chaining.
- Acc is also not as important with the ability to use ability slots and armor slots, with contributions from high level weapon ata included to balance it out.
- Mirage Blasts by Humans and Newmans can trump Beasts.
- In DLC MAX mssions, newmans may be squishy, but you may take two hits to kill like any other race.

Critical Power can be equipped by other races.
- Critical Power only modifies the critical value by 104%, making it blatantly dissapointing.
- Critical Power only modifies Critical Hits and Just Attacks.
- If it did have a modifier of 150% (aka 50% boost), then it would have been overpowered as it can be used in conjunction with traps, in which case critical hits are easily obtainable using the alternate method of just attacking.

[Omunall]

So casts have the least PP? I thought they had a bonus in PP or regen at least?

[Sienna]

I only said least, and my knowledge on PP regeneration is limited.

I remember from a thread saying that Newmens had the worst PP regen and Casts had the fastest PP regen, but again, my knowledge in the field is limited.

[Omunall]

Male Newman has 230 pp and Female has 250. Regen is 42 and 46 (m/f). Casts have 160 for male and 170 for female. But they have 49m and 53f for regen.

Is the difference in PP amount more of an advantage vs the regen? I love the Newman, but my Cast is doing more damage...but i run out of PP a lot, and have to wait and go to melee for a bit to get the shot of going back to my ra role. I'm just wanting to know if this will change later on, or if i needto be using pp save bullets?

[Sienna]

You should be mostly using Save Bullets. The difference in damage between the Bullets are near minimal.

[Omunall]

Really? That's good to know, all of the save shots i have are the higest in pa lvl that i own.

So if the difference is minimal, then if a newman used pp save shots, that would let that race fire off more often. What class would be a better RA? I understand that the cast would damage more, but if the newman can rack up a higher chain more often, and fire off chain breaks without running out as much, would that mean they would be better for DoT over a run period?

I'm in between the two classes right now, and for a RA EVP isn't really a big deal to me, but the damage and chain building, along with HP can be...but if the newman could fire more often and not have to run at the sight of everything that gets thrown to them (a random diga or something). Also not sure if the HP difference would save that RA from an attack more than the EVP would. I'm still trying out all the races ,and so far the easiest race/class combo was the Beast HU and VA. They seem to destroy and never die haha. I just dislike how they play, personal thing i guess. I did force for awhile and love the support, but in reality the Cast race can force support just as well as a Newman, since it's not about the damage. RA is what i want to go for,andi LOVE the end game RA equipment. I chose the male cast for this, since i can switch to melee for great damage when needed, and do just as well as a female cast at ranged, alongwith the high DFP and HP. Newmans seems to be good for ranged as well...but they can't switch to HU near as well.

[Jorry]

Really? That's good to know, all of the save shots i have are the higest in pa lvl that i own.

So if the difference is minimal, then if a newman used pp save shots, that would let that race fire off more often. What class would be a better RA? I understand that the cast would damage more, but if the newman can rack up a higher chain more often, and fire off chain breaks without running out as much, would that mean they would be better for DoT over a run period?

I'm in between the two classes right now, and for a RA EVP isn't really a big deal to me, but the damage and chain building, along with HP can be...but if the newman could fire more often and not have to run at the sight of everything that gets thrown to them (a random diga or something). Also not sure if the HP difference would save that RA from an attack more than the EVP would. I'm still trying out all the races ,and so far the easiest race/class combo was the Beast HU and VA. They seem to destroy and never die haha. I just dislike how they play, personal thing i guess. I did force for awhile and love the support, but in reality the Cast race can force support just as well as a Newman, since it's not about the damage. RA is what i want to go for,andi LOVE the end game RA equipment. I chose the male cast for this, since i can switch to melee for great damage when needed, and do just as well as a female cast at ranged, alongwith the high DFP and HP. Newmans seems to be good for ranged as well...but they can't switch to HU near as well.

If I were you, I would put 1 level into VA and give the Cast RA the PPup. That coupled with save bullets will near guarantee that you will never have to worry about PP again. Cast do more damage with guns than any other race, But their EVP is trash, so if you want to sacrifice damage for EVP stick with your Newman.

[Omunall]

Yeah i have been thinkin about it. It's more of a cosmetic thing as well. I have been playing nothing but online and multimode, and hadyet to actually play the story mode haha. I just beat it (quite an interesting story) but i see the new outfits and such for the classes, so i'm trying to decide on what class to go with.

I'm just wanting one character for now, so i can level it to 200 and then play a new one. Does the newman's EVP really do anything for them if they chose a VA or RA class? How is the damage in comparison?

[Crimson The FOmar]

Does the newman's EVP really do anything for them if they chose a VA or RA class? How is the damage in comparison?

Refer to my post in the other thread :P Newmans have worst melee damage, best tech damage and 3rd best ranged damage.

A female newman ranger is widely considered a great ranger choice though as you can spam the damaging bullets instead of the PP save bullets on account of your much higher PP.

A vanguard newman will have high EVP, which I've heard is good for the MAX mission where enemies have higher ATK, lower HP, but I can't speak for those as I haven't experienced them myself...

[Omunall]

Alright, good to know. That's all i was tryingto get a feel for. Same as i said in the other one; i'm just wanting to play support roles. My wife plays this game with me and uses a beast, so i want a role that can do both support and some kind of damage, since techs only go so far. They can do damage, but in certain situations they don't do anything that ranged won't do much better, especially because rifles hit outside of your view.

EDIT--

Okay so i tested out the newman a bit and i like where it's going. I had two save files, just to see what class i liked best (and while the cast was awesome, it's more of a cosmetic thing seeing as how the newman does the ranged and techs, vs ranged and melee as well as i like FOneys)

So past a vanguard/braver class, what types of things should i prepare for or expect when using s FO or RA class Neweral?

[Crimson The FOmar]

So past a vanguard/braver class, what types of things should i prepare for or expect when using s FO or RA class Neweral?[/B]

I don't mean to be crass, but be prepared to possibly die alot when playing as a FOnewearl. This is an unfortunate fact as the race/gender (female newman) with the lowest HP and defenses, coupled with the class (force) with the lowest HP and defenseswill make life difficult and it's why oddly female human or even beast forces are considered better.

By all means have a go though, as you will certainly have the highest TEC damage! but it does require alot more skill and strategy, dodging etc.

[Omunall]

Okay, so if it's just a death thing that's no big deal. I mean the game isn't hard for the most part, so if you just have to dodge then it's all good. I can see why it's a problem for the race/class though, solo for tougher bosses seems like it would take some time since you have to dodge a lot, and miss out on your dps. So long as it's fun, eh?

[Wayu]

FOnewearl is more support than a solo combination. If you're going to solo, though, get your Deband up to lv. 21 as fast as possible for lv. 3 DFP/MST/EVP boost. You're going to need it. Keep in mind, though, that you're going to be a TP nuke, so try to kill stuff before they even have a chance to fire off an attack (Rabarta works wonders).

-Wayu

[Omunall]

Alright then. Now what i want to know is how to work certain weapons. I keep trying to use grenades just to use them, though i understand they lower EVP and such...but they seem so big, yet do no damage? Ami doing something wrong?