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View Full Version : I Hope You Drop Weapon And Meseta When You Die



Red Ring
Nov 25, 2010, 03:01 PM
I loved that in Dreamcast PSO. To see someone with a uber rare and have them die by something stupid and making the decision to snatch it. Many games back then did that. They stopped doin' it I miss it. The only other way to make enemies with people in PSO is to launch the boss portals lol. Should be more ways to attack your partners rather than joining PVP rooms and dicking around.

Dongra
Nov 25, 2010, 03:03 PM
Absolutely not.

Red Ring
Nov 25, 2010, 03:06 PM
Absolutely not.

*Red Ring has declared war on Dongra*
Pew pew
*Red Ring has stolen Dongra's Lobster +12*

EvilMag
Nov 25, 2010, 03:10 PM
...No...Just No I'm not dealing with v2's flaw where people kept stealing my fucking weapon and sell/use it. It's the reason why I use the No Weapon Drop trainer on PCv2.

Seth Astra
Nov 25, 2010, 03:41 PM
Ugh... I never played the DC version, or any of the origional PSOs, but I don't even like the thought of this. Seriously, the main point of the games is grinding for uber-rares. I don't want to find one, only to have to choose: "Hmm, do I use it and risk losing something I worked so hard for, or do I just let it sit in my bank and gather dust?" I'd probably go for the "let it gather dust". And, unless they had stolen something from me, I wouldn't be joining in the weapon-snatching.

Dongra
Nov 25, 2010, 04:00 PM
There is a reason why weapon drop upon death no longer exists past version 2. Besides, it wasn't as big an issue on version 2 because everyone could just hack their item back or have someone do it for them. If PSO2 actually does a decent job to prevent cheating, then we wouldn't have that option.

Dhylec
Nov 25, 2010, 04:05 PM
No designers in the right mind would make a game where you drop your best rare when you die. That was a terrible idea & they knew it. It wasn't used again in the many versions of games thereafter. So i doubt players should see it again in normal gameplay, unless under special modes or such.

Ishia
Nov 25, 2010, 06:38 PM
Red Ring probably PK'd back in the day.

Kent
Nov 25, 2010, 08:09 PM
Should be more ways to attack your partners rather than joining PVP rooms and dicking around.
...No.

Allison_W
Nov 25, 2010, 10:27 PM
This is exactly the kind of anticooperative attitude we want to keep out of the game entirely. Folks like this guy are why primarily co-op games shouldn't have PVP of any kind. Or stuff dropped on death, for that matter.

Kent
Nov 26, 2010, 01:47 AM
Stuff dropped on death is a bad design decision in the first place. I'm fairly certain it was only implemented in PSO originally because they wanted a more hardcore dungeon-crawler feel to it, by adding that extra level of risk - but at the very least, they quickly realized how bad of an idea this actually is, and corrected it as of the GameCube and Xbox releases.

This kind of thing would only serve to devolve the game into nothing but a series of people playing in locked rooms with their friends only - the thing that killed PSU's community in its early days (albeit that was because of every excursion being ranked, meaning no-death full-clear speedruns or GTFO; another of many critical design flaws).

Honestly, the PvP rooms are even pushing it a bit - because there will still always be some 12-year old kid that's mad because he made himself look like an idiot, and the only way to solve that problem is to beat someone else in PvP combat, resulting in a bevy of duel requests. The existance of PvP in games pretty much doesn't do anything except encourage this kind of behavior, which is detrimental to the community at large (and no, "just block them" doesn't actually solve this problem).

RemiusTA
Nov 26, 2010, 02:28 AM
I loved that in Dreamcast PSO. To see someone with a uber rare and have them die by something stupid and making the decision to snatch it. Many games back then did that. They stopped doin' it I miss it. The only other way to make enemies with people in PSO is to launch the boss portals lol. Should be more ways to attack your partners rather than joining PVP rooms and dicking around.


Yeah sure lets build a whole game on getting gear, only to have it snatched once you get shanked. Thats almost as fucking stupid as your weapon breaking upon a failed grind. Or, even the decision of your weapon deteriorating at ALL upon a failed grind. Okay the decision of failed upgrades is stupid in GENERAL. This isn't a F2P MMO where cashshop items determine your gear status. It's freaking Phantasy Star, for christs sake.

Long story short, no. Alot of these design choices bent on making the game "harder" are mostly just gimmicks to a) keep you playing longer, or b) force you into a corner where the only option out is spending money on the Cash Shop. Essentally, they're [I]ALL bad design choices. The only people who benefit from them are the developers. You could argue the people paying for the cash shop are also getting a profit, but Cash Shops ruin the community and overall economy and flow of the game (it being based around favoring one group to the other and all) and therefore noone benefits.


Great examples of this? PSU 1) unlocking content off the disc and 2) grinds breaking weapons and having random elemental precentages on drops with no method of improving them. It was all to prolong gameplay and compensate for not having enough content on the game to do otherwise. And as for improving elemental rates, PSUJP currently has a cash shop method of increasing them now.....which proves my point better than it should, sadly.

Lets just hope PSO2 is free from these things, please lord jesus in heaven X.x

Msr. Bojangles
Nov 26, 2010, 04:54 AM
Yes. Because losing my +70 25/0/15/30/50 Red Saber to some completely random child who can't even properly type the word 'you' due to the fact I didn't notice the Mil Lily off in that far corner is /such/ an 'excellent' feeling.

Anon_Fire
Nov 26, 2010, 08:55 AM
I loved that in Dreamcast PSO. To see someone with a uber rare and have them die by something stupid and making the decision to snatch it. Many games back then did that. They stopped doin' it I miss it. The only other way to make enemies with people in PSO is to launch the boss portals lol. Should be more ways to attack your partners rather than joining PVP rooms and dicking around.

WORST idea i've ever heard.

I played a bit of PSO ver.2 offline and I say no, don't bring this function back.

MAXrobo
Nov 26, 2010, 11:15 AM
I think there should be PvP. but make both players agree to it beforehand and dont drop any weapons or stuff when you die. thats just a stupid idea.

"En"
Nov 26, 2010, 12:40 PM
The closest I want to come to dropping my weapons in PSO2 are...

1: Physically entering my inventory and choosing to drop a weapon.
2: Having my equipped weapon drop during Battle Rules (which, like the battle rules in PSO, is only a temporary effect).
3: Putting my weapon up for stake in a duel with another player.

Red Ring
Nov 26, 2010, 01:09 PM
Surprised I'm the only one who misses it. Although I was a hacker as a kid on just about every multiplayer game I played. Griefing people was always one of the best ways to get even with a showoff or someone better than you in the game. I'd go as far as to being able to clear out someone's entire inventory from their dead body.

BIG OLAF
Nov 26, 2010, 01:13 PM
Griefing people was always one of the best ways to get even with a showoff or someone better than you in the game.

So, you were jealous that you didn't have their weapons, so you "got even" by deleting or stealing them? How mature.

Broken_L_button
Nov 26, 2010, 01:20 PM
Now, now, there's no need to make PS games punish you even more for cooperating with other players...Adding random PK'ing would definately kill the community that would form around the game.


Griefing people was always one of the best ways to get even with a showoff or someone better than you in the game. I'd go as far as to being able to clear out someone's entire inventory from their dead body.

Okay...So if someone was better than you at a game, they'd deserve to get all the rewards they earned through some long, painstalking effort completely whiped out or just stolen by some random guy with anger issues or excessive envy, simply BECAUSE THEY WERE MORE SKILLED? Geez, that's rather unreasonable there.

16085k
Nov 26, 2010, 01:31 PM
I hope they don't, that was a terrible idea by sega.

Ishia
Nov 26, 2010, 02:00 PM
OP thinks he isn't a kid. lol

Msr. Bojangles
Nov 26, 2010, 02:39 PM
OP thinks he isn't a kid. lol

Dohohohoho.

This, my good fellow. This.

Dongra
Nov 26, 2010, 03:14 PM
Griefing people was always one of the best ways to get even with a showoff or someone better than you in the game. I'd go as far as to being able to clear out someone's entire inventory from their dead body.
And it is because of this that it will never return.

Pirrip
Nov 26, 2010, 04:06 PM
Phantasy Star Zero doesn't have this option, and as a DS game, it would be a bad move. So many small children all crying because someone in their party snatched up their prixed weapon... not that the eternal tower level won't make children cry anyway...

Neo Flint
Nov 26, 2010, 04:42 PM
I won't lie. This thread actually made me giggle. :-P

But I do agree that Sega made the mistake of added insult to injury like that back then. I would actually be pissed if I lost my Riverman.

Kyrith_Ranger_Pso
Nov 26, 2010, 04:48 PM
Never... NEVER....NEVER!!!!! I hate games that do this so much, this would probably end me up with trying to save everyones item from the rest of the team and giving it back because frankly, im not a dick when it comes to online play. They worked for that weapon and deserve to keep it.

Shirai
Nov 26, 2010, 09:37 PM
I'd hate to see this happen, it'd honestly piss people off to lose their uber rares and meseta.

Chaobo99
Nov 26, 2010, 09:58 PM
If you die, I should be able to pick-up...your soul!! Muwahahhaha.
*cough* Dropping of anything when you die is an awful idea. If you pick up someone else's hard-earned rare, you should get Nol-ified! But if it makes you happy, I will allow 1 meseta to drop upon death as my own punisment for not holding scape dolls <(_ _)>

AzureBlaze
Nov 27, 2010, 01:04 AM
I was around when this did happen. I dealt with it for many months of gameplay. It didn't result in much of what was said in the thread so far, from what I saw. (historical ramblin!)What it DID do:

1. Incentivized cheaters to invent first 'death resta' and then 'death reverser' in order to kill others in normal games. (it was a benefit to killing others) Make no mistake, it STILL would have been invented w/o this 'feature'.

2. Made you carry 2 weapons. 1 that you loved, another that was decent for the area, but easily get-able. This wasn't a problem because you could easily over-power yourself with mags & mats. When someone new came in who you didn't know, you used the 2nd weapon. You weren't relying sole-ly on the wep for your damg. If the 2nd wep dropped/you died/whatever, you just went to the shop and dropped 10k on a new one.

3. No one banked the 'ubers' or solo'd locked parties because of it, you just play it safe with your staple wep. Mine was chosen for irony "Heart Breaker" the sword. (breaker sword with 'heart' effect on it) When you got to know & trust the people in the team, you pulled out your regulars/rares.

4. Everyone had 999 999 meseta so even if you did drop the money, no one could lift it.

That said, I think what OP is going for is 'a consequence upon death that CAN affect only the die-er'. Someone was (rightfully) irritated at the stupid PSU rule that if someone dies, it punishes the party. That wrecked gameplay mechanics on psu, it was irritating because your grade was dependent on someone else. The drop n' die is the opposite sort of thing.

PSO...something had it so it would delete all the money you had on you if you died w/o doll. That was an inconvenience solved by dropping the money in town if you weren't with friends. It was still a bogus move, as it added more boring steps between player & fun.

If you weren't there at that time/during that game...
There was a DEFINITE element of suspense to it. You had to choose your party carefully, you had to watch out for cheap deaths. You had to keep a dummy wep. You had to treat death LIKE IT WAS REAL. You had to actually try hard to stay alive. Having a friend with you to snatch your wep if you died was also good. You couldn't just blunder around like a drunk fool dieing on every little thing, if you wanted to KEEP what you had, you damm well learned to play the game RIGHT and not die.

Aaaand thru all that...
I still think I'd be against them adding it back in for pso2. Incentivizing cheaters that much is like baiting heyenas--it shouldn't be done for the good of all. Playing that way was a nuisance, but it was all anyone knew, at that time. /historylesson

Kent
Nov 27, 2010, 02:44 AM
That said, I think what OP is going for is 'a consequence upon death that CAN affect only the die-er'.
No, that's precisely not what the first post was wanting.

It was specifically about spurring conflict between players, rather than punishing someone for dying. Trolling, really.

Red Ring
Nov 27, 2010, 03:02 AM
No, that's precisely not what the first post was wanting.

It was specifically about spurring conflict between players, rather than punishing someone for dying. Trolling, really.

He did list some good things why it was good to have and seemed to like it if it werent for the cheaters making cheats that allowed them to kill other players with healing techniques or even at a later time weapon attacks. It made the game a lot more interesting and a less childish almost zombie killer game with collectibles.

DreXxiN
Nov 27, 2010, 03:19 AM
I've played PSO DC V1 since I was 10 years old, and as a youngin' the idea was enticing but also heartbreaking. I really liked the amount of personality and risk associated with people, but growing up I realized it was really silly to train together to be able to fight the ultimate evil, and then your fellow Hunter friend dies so you take his shit and sell it. Being a role-playing game, I don't think that's how a Hunter would act..

Niered
Nov 27, 2010, 03:59 AM
Let's not beat around the bush; Weapon dropping in PSO was really just an attempt at a death penalty by Sonic Team, and a bad attempt at that. Most death penalties ARE bad ideas.

I'll mention Sacred 2 in this thread as I have others, not because its a great game (its not) but because it does death the right way. Rather than penalizing the player for dying, the game congratulates you on living, the more enemies a character kills, the higher their "Survival Bonus" climbs, offering up better item drops and slight stat bonuses. In the event of player death its reset, but even having a "Survival Bonus" of 0 doesn't exclude the player from getting good drops or being too weak to continue on through the game.

Bonuses for living, not penalties for dying.

Kent
Nov 27, 2010, 04:47 AM
Let's not beat around the bush; Weapon dropping in PSO was really just an attempt at a death penalty by Sonic Team, and a bad attempt at that. Most death penalties ARE bad ideas.

I'll mention Sacred 2 in this thread as I have others, not because its a great game (its not) but because it does death the right way. Rather than penalizing the player for dying, the game congratulates you on living, the more enemies a character kills, the higher their "Survival Bonus" climbs, offering up better item drops and slight stat bonuses. In the event of player death its reset, but even having a "Survival Bonus" of 0 doesn't exclude the player from getting good drops or being too weak to continue on through the game.

Bonuses for living, not penalties for dying.
I touched on this right here (http://www.pso-world.com/forums/showpost.php?p=2571824&postcount=18), as part of an incentive to keep players from retreating from dungeons (it's kind of assumed that particularly long areas may have checkpoints of some sort, giving you one free trip back to town that doesn't remove the bonus), as a means of encouraging more intelligent resource management (it would still be allowed, but the more enemies you kill while in a single excursion, the better your drop rate bonus gets (but going back to town removes your character's bonus to the drop rate). Though I'll admit that it's just an idea and would obviously require tweaking to get it to the best risk vs. reward balance, I think it could easily go toward providing a reward for staying alive, rather than a penalty for dying.

Ffuzzy-Logik
Nov 27, 2010, 06:34 PM
It made the game...less childishAhahahahahahahaha, holy SHIT. Only on PSOW.

The ability to grief people for no reason made the game less childish.


AAAAAAAAAAAAA++++++++ topic would lol again.

Weeaboolits
Nov 27, 2010, 06:37 PM
There's a reason they took it out after Ver2.

lostinseganet
Nov 27, 2010, 06:38 PM
No way anyday!

Kent
Nov 28, 2010, 03:14 AM
There's a reason they took it out after Ver2.
There are numerous reasons it was taken out after Version 2.

Skye-Fox713
Dec 2, 2010, 10:06 PM
I'm gonna jump on the "No" bandwagon. I'd probably never go back to Phantasy star if they did.

Msr. Bojangles
Dec 2, 2010, 10:12 PM
I touched on this right here (http://www.pso-world.com/forums/showpost.php?p=2571824&postcount=18), as part of an incentive to keep players from retreating from dungeons (it's kind of assumed that particularly long areas may have checkpoints of some sort, giving you one free trip back to town that doesn't remove the bonus), as a means of encouraging more intelligent resource management (it would still be allowed, but the more enemies you kill while in a single excursion, the better your drop rate bonus gets (but going back to town removes your character's bonus to the drop rate). Though I'll admit that it's just an idea and would obviously require tweaking to get it to the best risk vs. reward balance, I think it could easily go toward providing a reward for staying alive, rather than a penalty for dying.

And quite frankly, sir... That is the best idea I could ever read on the 'death penalty'. I have never really seen any MMO do a 'survival bonus' before. And if this was in PSO2, I think that I would be mopping my brains off of the ceiling. It would make my OCD on making my runs through dungeons with using as few Telepipes/Ryukers as I possibly could an advantage, rather than a pain.

Corey Blue
Dec 2, 2010, 10:15 PM
I loved that in Dreamcast PSO. To see someone with a uber rare and have them die by something stupid and making the decision to snatch it. Many games back then did that. They stopped doin' it I miss it. The only other way to make enemies with people in PSO is to launch the boss portals lol. Should be more ways to attack your partners rather than joining PVP rooms and dicking around.

Hell no.:-P

MAXrobo
Dec 2, 2010, 10:36 PM
And quite frankly, sir... That is the best idea I could ever read on the 'death penalty'. I have never really seen any MMO do a 'survival bonus' before. And if this was in PSO2, I think that I would be mopping my brains off of the ceiling. It would make my OCD on making my runs through dungeons with using as few Telepipes/Ryukers as I possibly could an advantage, rather than a pain.

they kind of did this in PSO by taking away you PB charge. unfortunanty, this want enough insentive to not pipe back to town.

Kent
Dec 2, 2010, 10:41 PM
Losing your PB charge was pretty inconsequential, for a lot of players. It only came into play when people were intentionally trying to build up that four-PB-combo to get level 50 Shifta/Deband going into a boss fight or something.

Which, letting players combo such things together like that is a fine idea and everything, but it really feels like Photon Blasts are just a bit too infrequent in a lot of cases, to the point where you generally won't miss them if you go back to town to restock. Of course, if players were encouraged to remain in the dungeons for their survival bonuses, you'd probably end up seeing quite a few Photon Blasts before people went back to town (assuming, of course, that they didn't have any unfortunate encounters with Megid or traps they didn't see).

•Col•
Dec 2, 2010, 11:33 PM
Or they could just make the Photon Blasts more useful.

In PSO, once you got to a certain point it was just like... "Shoot, stupid Photon Blast is taking up the 2nd set of buttons for my Actions" *uses it*

Wayu
Dec 2, 2010, 11:37 PM
It might turn out to be PSU's SUV/Nanoblast (they need to change this)/Mirage Blast/Infinity Blast system. Who knows?

I don't think dropping meseta and weapons is a good idea at all. It makes games like Runescape, where people leech off of stronger ones just for the chance to snatch something they didn't work for. Also, gankers that don't do anything until a person is almost dead, only to kill that person, steal the gear, and run away with their tails between their legs.

-Wayu

Allison_W
Dec 2, 2010, 11:50 PM
It only came into play when people were intentionally trying to build up that four-PB-combo to get level 81 Shifta/Deband going into a boss fight or something.

fix'd

Niered
Dec 3, 2010, 01:02 AM
fix'd

I remember pulling that off a few times, never knew the combinations myself, but I had a close friend that did, and we coordinated everything, which was relatively easy being IRL friends will all 4 players that we grouped up with.

It probably goes without saying, but...that kind of power boost made anything in the game yo' bitch.

Niloklives
Dec 25, 2010, 02:51 AM
Never... NEVER....NEVER!!!!! I hate games that do this so much, this would probably end me up with trying to save everyones item from the rest of the team and giving it back because frankly, im not a dick when it comes to online play. They worked for that weapon and deserve to keep it.


I actually did that a lot back in those days

Kripliflak
Apr 23, 2013, 10:52 PM
Drop weapon & meseta was perfect for PSO Dreamcast. Meseta didn't matter and you could just dupe items by dropping gear on the ground and turning off your Dreamcast without quitting. Just dupe your top weapon b4 you go and bank the extra.

It also worked with the large population and card system. You fell into clicks because everyone was looking for people to trust who wouldn't gank them. Early PSO was like the wild wild west. <3

These functions would totally suck for PSO2 though.

MetalDude
Apr 23, 2013, 11:05 PM
I love ignoring timestamps when posting too.

HIT0SHI
Apr 23, 2013, 11:13 PM
HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA~

HELL NO! If SEGA suddenly decides to do this, i'm quitting on PSO.

>EDIT: My word I just saw the 3 year gap bump of the thread, my bad!

Tenlade
Apr 23, 2013, 11:15 PM
I love ignoring timestamps when posting too.

Like, how do you even accomplish that? how do you find and post in a 2 year old thread without specifically looking for them?

MetalDude
Apr 23, 2013, 11:17 PM
I seriously have no idea. It's a big mystery throughout every forum and I don't get how it happens.

UnLucky
Apr 23, 2013, 11:36 PM
Google search and sign up for the forums (see his 1 post) just to reply to the thread.

But man it sure was fun healing people and then killing them, and taking their weapon.

I would give it back, though. They still get just as mad and it's still funny.