FOcast?

[Omunall]

Probably a topic that has been discussed, but i'm curious about the damage that a female cast could do with techs. Looking at the charts, they don't seem to far behind, but is the stat difference that much to gimp the tech damage? I know techs are considered weak, though i've seen some do quite well.

[Wayu]

They're the worst off when it comes to Force, but doable. It's a good way to balance out a CAST, especially a female CAST.

-Wayu

[Omunall]

Well what kind of damage would i be looking at?

I'm running a female newman atm, and i enjoy the ranged/force combo, but more so with the ability to throw out a bit of melee. The newman is great fun mind you, but i'm getting bored haha.

Also saw the infinity tech boosts, so i was thinking a focast would be even more fun...but i don't want to try it in psp2 if the damage would be near useless.

[Wayu]

The damage is okay, but nowhere near what a female Newman could nuke out. It's about the same as a female Newman melee fighter while set as maybe Hunter, but never used that on my female Newman.

-Wayu

[Omunall]

Ahh,well that's not too terrible i suppose. I've used techs while running as a HU, and damage kept up okay. I suppose for a female FOcast it would be interesting to try and melee/range and use techs for finishers. Maybe not efficient, but a whole lot of fun i would think.

I had such a hard time choosing a class before the newman, though i don't have much regrets of what i chose. I suppose my main worry for the cast is that...well i'm used to the evasion of the newman lol. I'll probably die all the time using a cast in any respect.

[Wayu]

I had similar problems. Nowadays I hang back and let my main rape everything while I juggle everything else with shotgun CSII in the Infinity demo. Just Guarding reflexes carried over from female Newman Braver/Vanguard, though, so not too bad.

-Wayu

[Omunall]

I downloaded the I demo and it seemed nice. I'm not too far into p2 yet, sort of have a downtime from gaming,so i sort of forgot what i was doing (bank inventory needs some sorting options to my liking) but since infinity is going to be awhile for a us release, i'm considering starting on a new character. I got my newman to lvl 140, and have yet to try out ranged haha. I ran HU for a large portion, FO for the rest.

[zeital]

i use a FOcaseal, i really don't see much in dmg different, there is some but it varies like everything and i can heal just as well as my group member who plays a FOnewm, the PP regen is fast and with PP boost & PP high-boost i rarely run out of PP (unless i have to heal in fast sussesion but just standing for a few seconds gets it back up no prob) so be prepared to play VA for alittle while (only to lv 15 so really not that long) but its worth it for those 2 abilities, now that she is back to FO she is doing almost as well as my friend's FOnewm



edit
and i have remade her in the psp2i demo and she is even better so i'd stick to FOcaseal for sure

[Omunall]

i use a FOcaseal, i really don't see much in dmg different, there is some but it varies like everything and i can heal just as well as my group member who plays a FOnewm, the PP regen is fast and with PP boost & PP high-boost i rarely run out of PP (unless i have to heal in fast sussesion but just standing for a few seconds gets it back up no prob) so be prepared to play VA for alittle while (only to lv 15 so really not that long) but its worth it for those 2 abilities, now that she is back to FO she is doing almost as well as my friend's FOnewm

Well this is pretty much confirming my "idea" lol. I wanted to play a FO later in the game, but run VA for the majority of it. I figure a FOcast could still run some melee though, but if your damage is keeping up okay then i'm happy to hear. It's not all about min/max for me, but just about having fun. Heck, if you have ever heard of monster hunter, i run bow, Hunting horn, and sword and shield in solo too often...sort of enjoy the difficulty lol.

On teams however, i doubt i'd go FOcast often. Maybe for kicks, but VA/RA would be a main.

One last question that's a bit off topic.

Are grenade launchers good later on? I've not really hunted any, and online hasn't been explored so i don't get to see how they work.

[Wayu]

Grenade launchers are great for crowd control. Just don't use CSII unless you're going to use it on a boss.

Now that DEF and MND are scaled properly, FOnewearls will totally outdo FOcaseals.

Unless the FOcaseal is skill-wise superior to the FOnewearl.

-Wayu

[zeital]

see i like playing the odd ball mix, and i'm maining my FO, i run with her in online as FO, when i was VA-ing it out to lv 15 i used some melee but not often only cuz at the point it was faster to get PP back but now that i have both boost i don't have much of a prob. for me i like it cuz not only does it work but well so for me it works well.

and launcher are a bit meh from what i have seen, they are hard to use and miss where u aim so i don't see many people use them.

[Omunall]

Grenade launchers are great for crowd control. Just don't use CSII unless you're going to use it on a boss.

Now that DEF and MND are scaled properly, FOnewearls will totally outdo FOcaseals.

Unless the FOcaseal is skill-wise superior to the FOnewearl.

-Wayu

Well i'm sure FOnewerals have gone back to their room nuking ways haha. I'm more interested in the fact that Casts can still "sort of" nuke. that's just cool lol. Maybe not the best damage, but it's just fun.

BTW, in infinity, has ranged been buffed (or made more fun)?

[RenzokukenZ]

Well i'm sure FOnewerals have gone back to their room nuking ways haha. I'm more interested in the fact that Casts can still "sort of" nuke. that's just cool lol. Maybe not the best damage, but it's just fun.

BTW, in infinity, has ranged been buffed (or made more fun)?

Yes to both. It's even fun as a female dewman ranger:-D

[zeital]

yea its fun i havn't been able to compare really what the difference in psp2i (like cast to newman dmg or w/e) cuz well i can't play online with anyone :( but i'm having fun being able to solo in the JP demo so far (thank god) so i should injoy it once english demo or really full is out, but man i really don't wanna wait :P its so hard knowing that my 2 mains are made epic in psp2i >>

[Wayu]

All enemies can flinch, so have fun with grenades holding back a whole wave. PP regenerates faster than you can fire, too.

-Wayu

[d19xx]

All enemies can flinch, so have fun with grenades holding back a whole wave. PP regenerates faster than you can fire, too.

-Wayu

Even though the demo is out, I still find that hard to believe. ST has been totally anal about the whole flinching thing. For 10 years the difficulty of the Phantasy Star franchise has been mostly about the juggernaut characterristics of the enemies.

Ah well, it took them 9 years to add manual blocking and dodging. I guess it's time for them to think of other ways to make this game more challenging. I think this is good for the franchise.

Though I still think they're going to use the no flinching rule on high level infinity missions in the full version.

[Pillan]

The weakness of Cast Force has always been exaggerated since the difference between Cast and Newman TP was huge in the original PSU. In PSP2, Cast Tech is exactly the same as Newman Atk and Newman Tech is exactly the same as Beast Atk as far as base stats are concerned. This means the difference between a Cast and Newman Force in damage is the same as the difference between a Newman and Beast hunter in damage.

Of course, the difference becomes larger since techs are slower casting. So taking one or two more hits to kill things means two to four more seconds per kill. While the difference for a Newman Hunter only adds up to a second or two at most. If the speed changes are as significant as I hear in Infinity, it certainly should not be any more of an issue.

And then, of course, you gain the benefit of extra HP (the highest end-game), more melee damage, and more gun damage.

[Crimson The FOmar]

The weakness of Cast Force has always been exaggerated since the difference between Cast and Newman TP was huge in the original PSU. In PSP2, Cast Tech is exactly the same as Newman Atk and Newman Tech is exactly the same as Beast Atk as far as base stats are concerned. This means the difference between a Cast and Newman Force in damage is the same as the difference between a Newman and Beast hunter in damage.

Of course, the difference becomes larger since techs are slower casting. So taking one or two more hits to kill things means two to four more seconds per kill. While the difference for a Newman Hunter only adds up to a second or two at most. If the speed changes are as significant as I hear in Infinity, it certainly should not be any more of an issue.

And then, of course, you gain the benefit of extra HP (the highest end-game), more melee damage, and more gun damage.

This too ^

I was sceptical at first, but I got some really good advice and now my main is a lvl 130 FOcaseal :D

To make the most though, you need the best tech weapons you can get in my opinion, high %, empower element is great, wepons that reduce the PP used and/or increased tech damage in general i.e Mr Ecoeco Stick and Psychowand.
To be honest, just carry whatever melee weapon you like as a back up...some use Kokuintou Houzoki unsealed and extended for the lvl 5 freeze..

I always carry twin handguns to utilize the Casts higher ranged damage as well for chaining/hitting switches etc!

Most of all, have fun :grin:

[Omunall]

Alright sounds great! I'm debating on the cast or human atm. Humans seem like they would be interesting to play so an all around game, and seem like they would transfer over to Infinity pretty well.

[Wayu]

Humans also have the highest MST, so they're magic tanks. Couple that with the 2nd highest TP and you're set for Bel Pannons and anything that spams techniques.

-Wayu

[Broken_L_button]

Humans also have the highest MST, so they're magic tanks. Couple that with the 2nd highest TP and you're set for Bel Pannons and anything that spams techniques.

-Wayu

Correction. You're somewhat set for anything that uses barta/zonde. Anyone can nullify these techs with the proper shield weave and deband casted because of their low TEC mod. I'd love to see a Human/Newman force wearing a 60% :fire: Yiel weave and level 21+ deband casted try to nullify a Foie tech from a Force-type monster of the same level as him/her without trying to cast Jellen on it first. Bottom line, sure you won't get barta-raped as a Force, but that doesn't mean you should be careless around tech-casting mobs, nonetheless.

[Omunall]

Well i think what Wayu was saying is that overall Humans will survive accidental hits better, so they can tank a bit.

Either way looking at stats and playing around with a few characters, i think i'm going to go with a Human for now. I love the casts, but i sort of love them for the old school PSO feel...but i only realy got into them before because of the traps, whichare now not a cast specific item. Also, i'm a dork and i like to draw, so one of my characters i draw has a cyberpunk feel, and is human...perfect fit for PSP2.

[FoCaster]

Awesome thread name, btw XD

[Omunall]

Lol!

Thanks :)

[Wayu]

@BLB: Omunall's right. CASTs are better DEF wise, so they're better for most mobs. However, the most annoying enemies in the game all have some form of techniques (Bel Pannons particularly). Avoiding tons of melee enemies is easy. Avoiding tons of Bel Pannons isn't.

-Wayu

[venn2010]

But isn't this game easy enough to warrant that tanking isn't all that important?

Besides, I think that being a FO as a Cast is bit of a waste as all that teching potential is not fully realized with lowest TEC in the game.

Between Human & Cast for being a FO, I say Human will net you a better mileage in the long run.

[Wayu]

It's easy if you know how enemies move. It's not easy if you have Bel Pannons keeping you moving constantly.

Humans also have the highest STA, BTW, so less being frozen.

-Wayu

[Pillan]

Personally, I would say there is no reason to play Cast Force purely due to Seraphim/Exusia Fluge. They give buffs level 4 and 5, respectively, and the SUV bar is usually full again before the buffs run out. Plus a Cast Hunter with Emelia's S rod heals enough. Then add in that there is essentially a gun version of every tech that currently does more damage for less PP and that only leaves higher debuffs and wider healing range into question.

From what I have heard of the Infinity changes, everything but the clear "more damage" part of that statement remains true. So, yes, you would be better off as literally any other class. But still no reason not to.

Personally, I would have chosen the human as well.

EDIT:

And, of course, there is no reason not to run away from the initial two bartas per bell pannon and no excuse not to have a Freeze Resist when you can just do chapter 10 5 times to get Freeze and Stun Resist.

[Crimson The FOmar]

And, of course, there is no reason not to run away from the initial two bartas per bell pannon and no excuse not to have a Freeze Resist when you can just do chapter 10 5 times to get Freeze and Stun Resist.

Bel Pannons don't really bother me....I got lvl 10 hunter to get the Freeze Protect ability...

[EDIT] You may find this interesting too, http://www.gamefaqs.com/boards/969683-phantasy-star-portable-2/55456033, a class/race analysis. He surmises that statistically speaking, a female human force would be the best too, but have a read yourself! :)

[RenzokukenZ]

That's it. I'm making a FOCaseal in Infinity. All this talk about FOs kicking ass and Casts being naturally awesome at every class has inspired me.


You may find this interesting too, http://www.gamefaqs.com/boards/969683-phantasy-star-portable-2/55456033, a class/race analysis. He surmises that statistically speaking, a female human force would be the best too, but have a read yourself! :)

Still won't change my mind :grin:

[Crimson The FOmar]

That's it. I'm making a FOCaseal in Infinity. All this talk about FOs kicking ass and Casts being naturally awesome at every class has inspired me.

Still won't change my mind :grin:

I was trying to be impartial, wasn't trying to :-P

But do have a go come Infinity, I find my FOcaseal great fun :D

[vagabondkitten]

I've read THOTHS guides before the English PSP2 came out, and a lot of the info he has seemed biased and untrue to me. There is absolutely no denying that newmans make the best forces. They have the highest damage, highest PP (and now just as good PP regen as casts in PSP2i), second best MND to reduce magic damage, and best EVA for near melee invincibility even as a force (as long as they have deband). Their only weakness is low HP, but as long as you play correctly that shouldn't be a problem ever.

However, that doesn't mean the only race that can play force is newmans, I'm just saying no one can argue that other races are better at force. Any race and sex combo can at least perform decently as any of the classes, as long as you know what you're doing. I really only pick newman because they're the race I've always used since PSO, and I like the way they look the best. You're going to be using this character a LONNNNG time if you plan on eventually getting to 200, so you might as well enjoy it. ^^

[Omunall]

I've read THOTHS guides before the English PSP2 came out, and a lot of the info he has seemed biased and untrue to me. There is absolutely no denying that newmans make the best forces. They have the highest damage, highest PP (and now just as good PP regen as casts in PSP2i), second best MND to reduce magic damage, and best EVA for near melee invincibility even as a force (as long as they have deband). Their only weakness is low HP, but as long as you play correctly that shouldn't be a problem ever.

However, that doesn't mean the only race that can play force is newmans, I'm just saying no one can argue that other races are better at force. Any race and sex combo can at least perform decently as any of the classes, as long as you know what you're doing. I really only pick newman because they're the race I've always used since PSO, and I like the way they look the best. You're going to be using this character a LONNNNG time if you plan on eventually getting to 200, so you might as well enjoy it. ^^

Question; compared to PSO, how long does this game take to get to lvl 200?

[TheAstarion]

Faster than PSO, faster than PSU.

PSP2i brings another possibility to the table for FOcasts... Ignite Arts Vanguards. You'll have the third tier of spells with a lv25 attack spell cap, as well as the lv25 melee and bullets. Whether the Ignite Arts ability gives buffs or not is a bit of a moot point... you've got the Fluge.

Lv20 buffs for the party while you use EX traps, followed by a Fluge... that sounds like good support to me. And you still get the 3 card bullets, 5 shotgun bullets, triple Foverse and huge Sazonde (I'm convinced this is actually the best new tech), as well as cheaper melee moves.

Yep, CAST Vanguard is starting to look like CAST Wartranser+

[Fayorei]

I'm glad they made stat differences negligible for the most part. It'd be boring to see nothing but Newman Forces. Force isn't my cup of tea, but I think judging by some of the info I've read throughout the thread... go for it! You'll have a unique character. Honestly items later on would make up for it judging by the thread.:D

That being said, I'm thinking of maining a Cast Vanguard in PSP2i. I have been playing Newman since PSO... starting to get stale. :P

[Omunall]

Faster than PSO, faster than PSU.

PSP2i brings another possibility to the table for FOcasts... Ignite Arts Vanguards. You'll have the third tier of spells with a lv25 attack spell cap, as well as the lv25 melee and bullets. Whether the Ignite Arts ability gives buffs or not is a bit of a moot point... you've got the Fluge.

Lv20 buffs for the party while you use EX traps, followed by a Fluge... that sounds like good support to me. And you still get the 3 card bullets, 5 shotgun bullets, triple Foverse and huge Sazonde (I'm convinced this is actually the best new tech), as well as cheaper melee moves.

Yep, CAST Vanguard is starting to look like CAST Wartranser+

Hmm, interesting. Perhaps i'll go ahead and try out the cast now, get a feel for it before Infinity comes out. That way i would appreciate the changes and feel buffed lol.

Also...the human is quite uneventful :( I mean, they do well...but it's just that they sort of do...and they don't DO...lol.

[Wayu]

But CASTs don't DO as Force either. They're actually the worst stat-distribution wise (lowest TP, MST). It's a challenge to play as one, which people may like and balances points relatively well.

-Wayu

[Broken_L_button]

But CASTs don't DO as Force either. They're actually the worst stat-distribution wise (lowest TP, MST). It's a challenge to play as one, which people may like and balances points relatively well.

-Wayu

Actually, the "weaker stats" part is exaggerated.

FOnewearl TP/MST @ 200/30: 1196/648

FOcast TP/MST @ 200/30: 911/535

That's a 285 TP difference and a 113 MST difference. The MST is about 30-40 difference in damage taken from techs if they wear the same gear with deband casted (lol). The TP difference makes the FOcast do around 60 less base damage with techs, which at most, would end up being around 120ish if they both use Diga with the same gear. And you'll need to consider that character attributes don't follow a very linear curve; at early levels, the difference in TEC between each force type isn't too much. You only really notice it much later (lv 120+) when your Cast's TP growth gets much slower than the newman's. And, then again, it's not a huge difference.

But Diga being mostly situational, impractical if you want to chain break and downright disrupting in online parties, they'll mostly use the other techs, which have lower TEC mods, making that damage difference even lower. And, no need to mention that a 100ish damage difference can become hard to notice seeing that Tech damage can vary by a couple hundred later in-game (heck, with the same unchained tech on the same mob, I can hit for in the 600s as often as I hit in the 800s), and that much damage is also pretty insignificant compared to the thousands of HP most mobs have.

These numbers are for PSP2 though. With the overall boost to forces (if it stays the same in the retail version) + rebirth in infinity, the difference doesn't matter anymore.

So, bottom line, the stats don't mean much if you have the gear, unless you're a min-maxer that goes bananas if someone else does a bit more damage. It would be like saying that PSO's FOney is easier to play that PSO's FOmarl because she has more MST than the latter.

[Wayu]

I know that in Infinity the difference is apparently more...well, apparent. Or at least I've heard so.

Especially in vanilla PSP2, CAST PP can be a problem when teching.

Then again, I haven't experimented both ways. Newman Force just seems a lot more practical.

-Wayu

[Broken_L_button]

Well...FOney gets around 400 more TEC in infinity while my FOcaseal (147/27) gained 150ish more TEC (so I guess it'll probably be more at 200/30), so yeah, you can see the difference a bit more, but it's not that great yet again.

Personally, I can assure you that in Vanilla PSP2, PP isn't a problem as a Cast if you don't just keep spamming techs for no reason. You'll hit 0 PP more often, but you'll be back to like 30-50 by the time you manage to get yourself in position to use another Gi- Tech (if you have both PP boosts on). Yes, of course newman is more practical if you're going to exclusively use techs, but the difference isn't huge.

[Ceresa]

For infinity, difference between 200/50 caseal and newman females tp is 433.

Don't forget the multipliers when comparing damage, 1.1 advance, 1.1 advance+, 1.3 empower from pwand, another 1.1 for pwand innate...

Difference ends up around 200 on a ra-tech. 400 for a chain 1, 1200 on 3 casts on a chain 1 etc...

With how fast you can raise the chain on a sa-tech, don't think it'll matter much to get another 1 or 10 chains though, and if you get sick of force well cast is better at hunter and ranger, and depending on evasion, potentially braver...

PP and MST differences are irrelevant in both versions.

[Broken_L_button]

Don't forget the multipliers when comparing damage, 1.1 advance, 1.1 advance+, 1.3 empower from pwand, another 1.1 for pwand innate...


Is the 1.3 from extending and choosing the proper element boost or just simply extending?

[Ceresa]

Yes, the 1.3 is entirely the empower.

Quick empower tutorial if you didn't know:

1. Works regardless of enemy element (earth against dark yay)
2. Works regardless of rod element (emp earth on a light pwand against dark yay)
2. Multiplies at end of damage formula
3. Power varies by weapon pwand and caduceus are 30, gravishit is 25, most wands top at 20.

[Broken_L_button]

Ah, I see. Didn't know that the empower bonus varied among magic sticks, thanks for that. Also, "gravishit". So true...

[Omunall]

Lol, i know the casts don't "DO" as a force, but they can do lol. I just meant i wanted a class that could DO in some area, where humans just sort of do well, but never awesome.

I spent some time playing with the classes and i landed on the one that i've never even tried to look at; the female beast. While they blow very hard at range, i just realized that you could remove a weapon from your type list...not i feel stupid. Anyway, i started playing that cast and kept thinking of how useful a ranger job would be to a beast if you mixed in the proper skills.

Also, i have seen a few vids of them doing force, which wasdone pretty decent. Sort of bottom, but above a cast. Also the evp and atp, that's just good fun...

Plus, who doesn't love a good hooker suit to look forward to when Infinity comes out ;)

[vagabondkitten]

For infinity, difference between 200/50 caseal and newman females tp is 433.

Don't forget the multipliers when comparing damage, 1.1 advance, 1.1 advance+, 1.3 empower from pwand, another 1.1 for pwand innate...

Difference ends up around 200 on a ra-tech. 400 for a chain 1, 1200 on 3 casts on a chain 1 etc...

With how fast you can raise the chain on a sa-tech, don't think it'll matter much to get another 1 or 10 chains though, and if you get sick of force well cast is better at hunter and ranger, and depending on evasion, potentially braver...

PP and MST differences are irrelevant in both versions.

Just curious, where is everyone getting these stats from? I'd really like to have a look at them just out of personal interest.

[Omunall]

Just curious, where is everyone getting these stats from? I'd really like to have a look at them just out of personal interest.

http://www.pso-world.com/forums/showthread.php?t=181926&highlight=Max+stats

here ya go.

[vagabondkitten]

http://www.pso-world.com/forums/showthread.php?t=181926&highlight=Max+stats

here ya go.

I've seen that one before. I was hoping for an updated one, at class level 50 with the boosted racial stats from infinity. But thanks anyways! ^^

[Ceresa]

For type 50 stats, from Agrajag on psupedia https://sites.google.com/site/metareeminder/psp2ilevelinfo.txt

It's the lists of the modifiers for each type level, and stats by level for races. Gotta math it out yourself.

[vagabondkitten]

For type 50 stats, from Agrajag on psupedia https://sites.google.com/site/metareeminder/psp2ilevelinfo.txt

It's the lists of the modifiers for each type level, and stats by level for races. Gotta math it out yourself.

Ah! Thanks! :-)