DFP vs HP mats

[FluffyFox]

Which would be better for being the tankiest guy around?

Using on a HUmar (More mats, access to deband, resta, still a decent att without the need of assistance)

Also about how much DEX is needed on a HUmar mag to ensure a decent hit rate in higher difficulties? many thanks. GOing for a DEX/DEF mag.

[Mustache]

Defense>HP in this situation. When you Deband the only stats it increases are base plus mats, the defense you put in your Mag or defense bumps you get from items are not boosted by Deband. So Defence Mats can count as 1.5 mats for every one used when considering the compare.

Use of your Resta also becomes better when you use Def over HP. For this example you'll want to be taking less damage per hit rather than having a higher max hp, that way when you resta you essentially get greater value. With Def you take less damage per physical hit, so when you heal 150 damage with resta you'll actually be healing a larger % of your life total and at a greater value than if you healed 150 hp without the def and with your extra hp.

You're resta's aren't great and getting extra value from them definitely should be the target of your build.

As a lvl 100 Humarl I can get by using some weapons with just my natural hit, unfortunitly you'll need to put something towards it. If you use Daggers, Sabers, Swords then I only recommend you add around 20-40 hit to your mag. If you use Handguns, Gunblades, 2-Swords then I recommend you have 50 or more dex on your mag.

All in all Humar with defence will make a Tankier Tank than that of HP.

[FluffyFox]

Defense>HP in this situation. When you Deband the only stats it increases are base plus mats, the defense you put in your Mag or defense bumps you get from items are not boosted by Deband. So Defence Mats can count as 1.5 mats for every one used when considering the compare.

Use of your Resta also becomes better when you use Def over HP. For this example you'll want to be taking less damage per hit rather than having a higher max hp, that way when you resta you essentially get greater value. With Def you take less damage per physical hit, so when you heal 150 damage with resta you'll actually be healing a larger % of your life total and at a greater value than if you healed 150 hp without the def and with your extra hp.

You're resta's aren't great and getting extra value from them definitely should be the target of your build.

As a lvl 100 Humarl I can get by using some weapons with just my natural hit, unfortunitly you'll need to put something towards it. If you use Daggers, Sabers, Swords then I only recommend you add around 20-40 hit to your mag. If you use Handguns, Gunblades, 2-Swords then I recommend you have 50 or more dex on your mag.

All in all Humar with defence will make a Tankier Tank than that of HP.

Sounds awesome then :) I just thought that since HP adds 2 vs 1 def.... But, I see your point, and they are very valid and good points.

I plan on generally going full melee with my HUmar (Haven't decided what kind of weapon I like best yet, however) so I should plan for about... say, 25 hit/75 defense?

[the_void]

*mates scale with your max hp, so with more hp materials the mates will heal you more.

If you rely on resta more than mates, then you may be better off using mind materials rather than guard. How many points in def gives you 1 point of damage reduction? Compare that to level 10 resta healing (I think) 54% of your MST.

Another thing to consider is elemental attacks. I'm pretty sure that a lot of enemy attacks ignore defense and only use your % based element resistance, like the pobommas' fire grenade and arkzein rockets.

[Galax]

I guess it depends; I'd agree that using Mind Mats might be a good idea if you rely on Resta for healing, but you can't rely on it forever; You'll eventually run out of PP on a run you couldn't / forgot to restock for. Or maybe you're in Eternal Tower, and you run out of Fluids and such, you'd then be better off saving PP for Photon Arts and such. But if you do that, you'll be healed less when you have to use mates. In the end, I'd say it comes down to a matter of balance; You'll want to use Materials for one or two stat(s), and your mag for others. Of course, if you're quick with the equips screen, it might not be a bad idea to carry multiple mags for different situations. If you do that, you would only have to worry about Material balancing; You'd have the mags to switch around to take care of the rest. Also, you said you're using a HUmar? Consider aiming to use an Axeon series weapon; The +50 MST wouldn't be a bad idea.

[FluffyFox]

I guess it depends; I'd agree that using Mind Mats might be a good idea if you rely on Resta for healing, but you can't rely on it forever; You'll eventually run out of PP on a run you couldn't / forgot to restock for. Or maybe you're in Eternal Tower, and you run out of Fluids and such, you'd then be better off saving PP for Photon Arts and such. But if you do that, you'll be healed less when you have to use mates. In the end, I'd say it comes down to a matter of balance; You'll want to use Materials for one or two stat(s), and your mag for others. Of course, if you're quick with the equips screen, it might not be a bad idea to carry multiple mags for different situations. If you do that, you would only have to worry about Material balancing; You'd have the mags to switch around to take care of the rest. Also, you said you're using a HUmar? Consider aiming to use an Axeon series weapon; The +50 MST wouldn't be a bad idea.

Hm, well, I haven't put any thought into weapons yet. I don't think that having mind, however, is the greatest idea, and as for elemental attacks I was thinking of using the PA speed booster and 3 elemental resists for maximum defensive capability.

However, I have completely forgotten to take magic attacks into consideration when planning this build, so, with that in mind, WOULD HP be a more viable option? HUmar's weak resta may prove to be troublesome with this...

[Mustache]

You can use a Ancient Robe if you want a catch all against elemental attacks, giving you 20% resistance to everything, on another note you would probably consider a Noble Cloak as your armor of choice which has fine elemental resistances built in. Also, the elemental attacks in the game are fairly easy to dodge, even boss attacks like Reyburn's Fireballs and Dark Falz laser beam.

[FluffyFox]

True, but I can't go around assuming that I'll be able to dodge everything :P

Edit:

So, final build will be as follows:

100 DEF mats

25 DEX/75 DEF mag

Axeon series weapon

Ancient RObe/Noble Cloak

Element Boost
PA/Compress
2xelemental resist units (Maybe a set of them to interchange based on area?)

Does this look good? Does anyone have any additional comments or suggestions?

[Tamlin]

Hmmm... yes... this looks good, but If I may interject on weapon choice...
I'd have a few different weapons based on area. Although the axeon series is quite effective, there are better classes than the gun-blade...
Try a Zero Saber, or even an Akatsuki or Yonohate at later levels to match the noble cloak and get the set bonus...

[FluffyFox]

Okies, I'll try it out, weapon choice was not set in stone anyhow :P I didn't even know what axeon was.

[Chaos Rappy]

Actually, aboput the Axeon series gunblades... Emperor Axeon is the highest-ATP Gunblade in the game... just saying.

[Clavat99]

Okay im ending any sort of debate that may arise right here, right now: BALANCE THEM OUT! A high DFP will reduce the damage taken, and a high HP will increase the amount you can take. But having one or the other is pretty pointless, you have high DFP, but you dont have the hp to take the reduced, or you have high HP, but the DFP is to low to really matter. SOOOOO, if you have balanced DFP and HP, it creates a stand point where the Damage is reduced a nice amount, and you higher hp can take it very well. I have been working on my HUcast as a tank for a long time. I have practiced numerous builds, and have used countless reset mats. and the one thing i found works is having a pure power mag (thank my radam for that), and a balanced DFP and HP. I never focus only on tanking builds, because people dont seem to grasp that tanks take the damage. I will be level 88 in a group of 60s, and the lowest dude will run for all the enemies and die before i even have a chance to pull aggro. Now all the enemies are spreading out so i cant cc them all.

[Broken_L_button]

Okay im ending any sort of debate that may arise [about HP vs. DEF mats] right here, right now: BALANCE THEM OUT!

Ill-advised for defensive stats. The thing is, the way PSZ is built, a few things must be considered while using materials:

-If you want your boost to matter, only boost stats that are your Race/class combo's strong points.
-Only boost stats that are affected by buffs
-Characters in online PS games have always been built this way: decent base offense, lol pathetic defensive stats.
-You can only eat so many materials.

Thus, you can afford to balance power/Mind materials, but not Def/HP; since the investment required to make them effective is much bigger. Combine that with PSZ's lower mat count, and you're stuck investing in bulk if you want a useful defensive boost. Though, you COULD calculate the exact point at which, with buffs, debuffs and such, the exact number of, say, defense materials you'd need to nullify damage. OH, BUT WHAT DO WE HAVE HERE?! YOU CAN'T COMPLETELY NULLIFY DAMAGE UNLESS YOU HAVE JELLEN ON THE ENEMIES AND 80 DEF MATS ON A HUCAST/CASEAL. Well, so much for math. Anyways, back to the other issues. Again, HP is terrible to invest in, even on HUcast/Caseal, since:

-at most, you get 160 more HP. Yay. Half a phobos slash more and you're dead.
-The regen boost is...Useless. 'Nuff said.
-The more HP = no falling down in the event you are hit = flinch when you get hit = more gang-rape = an even quicker death. Nothing wrong with that if you're a masochist, though.
-did I mention HP can't be boosted through buffs? Yeah.
-"What about slapping on more D/HPs?". Stacking more of what causes these problems won't solve 'em.

Whereas Def on a HUcast/Caseal is slightly less retarded since:

-You can get 0 damage if the enemies have level 4-5 Jellen on them OR if a force buffs you with lv.3 deband and debuffs the enemies with lv.3 Jellen OR if you use the Midgul PB.
-You have less HP than a full HP build, removing one of the causes of gang-rape.

But, I'll admit, there's a drawback, which is ironically the same as with a full HP build:

-more Def = less damage taken = no falling down...WAIT. You were thinking "= flinch = gang-rape = faster death", right? Ha, you fell for it. Contrary to the nonsensical HP build, where you get hit for the same amount of damage despite a slightly bigger HP pool, you get hit for less damage with DEF, which makes the rest of that logical string be "= flinch = gang-rape = but still slower death". Yep, more time to escape the gang raping.

...Crap, textwall'ed again.

[Clavat99]

The main point im trying to get across is that having a nice balance of HP and DFP works in harmony, and i can guarantee that you will enjoy long survivability (never mind L's remarks to boss special attacks that do or almost kill you with one hit no matter your stats. Thats what the dodge action is for ;) ) And my idea of a good build is having enough survivability to just get you to the boss in one piece (<--hey manga reference!). Fighting bosses is less dependent on high stats than it is on knowing where to be and when, and knowing the pattern of the bosses attacks and special abilities. Although having high stats does help a ton. Balanced HP and DFP lets you not have to worry about blowing all of your mates on the normal, unimportant baddies, unless of course your just a dumbass. And like L said, regen is crap. But i still keep a few regen items with me at all times so i can wait out my healths return without having to blow meseta on more mates. Just be prepared, have a nice balance of base stats and let your armor, weapons, and mag take care of the other boosts, and most importantly: Know Thy Enemy! this belief has kept me successful on PSZ for the last year and a half.