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Reksanden
May 1, 2011, 01:37 PM
Well, in PSO they were multi-hitting melee thrown weapons. In PSZ they were Force-based instead. Which do you think they'll bring back, or do you think they'll be turned into Ranger weapons this time around?
EDIT: I mean, there is no guarantee that they'll bring them back, but....

Pillan
May 1, 2011, 01:42 PM
And in PSU/P2 they were melee laser cannons.

I assume the original PSO version is impossible, just because it hit too much in too wide a range (the same reason the RA-techs from PSO will never appear that way again). But I do feel it is a safe assumption they will be back. If anything, I would say PSZ's version would be the best fit just because there is a severe lack of tech weapon choices.

MidiPour
May 1, 2011, 01:43 PM
I hope the staff figures out how useless slicers actually are.

•Col•
May 1, 2011, 01:44 PM
And in PSU/P2 they were melee laser cannons.

I assume the original PSO version is impossible, just because it hit too much in too wide a range (the same reason the RA-techs from PSO will never appear that way again). But I do feel it is a safe assumption they will be back. If anything, I would say PSZ's version would be the best fit just because there is a severe lack of tech weapon choices.

Nah, they should stay Attack based so Hunters have SOME ranged weapon to use. Forces don't need an abundance of weapons, they already have around 20 unique attacks connected to the character itself. :p

Pillan
May 1, 2011, 01:47 PM
Nah, they should stay Attack based so Hunters have SOME ranged weapon to use. Forces don't need an abundance of weapons, they already have around 20 unique attacks connected to the character itself. :p

Why should Hunter have any ranged option besides using a gun? I really could not find a reason to support the argument that "Hunter should have all that HP and DFP and ATP and be as safe at a distance as Ranger."

Wayu
May 1, 2011, 01:50 PM
Forces can now use guns, so I don't see why Hunters would be unable to.

-Wayu

Reksanden
May 1, 2011, 01:53 PM
They could be used as a multi-hitting weapon instead: rather than striking multiple targets, hit one or two targets multiple times.

Pillan
May 1, 2011, 01:54 PM
I believe you misinterpreted my statement I was not saying that a Hunter should not have a gun option. I was arguing that a Hunter should not have a ranged weapon specifically designed for them (i.e., slicers). I would be fine with Hunters using rifles at half the damage as a Ranger or even using slicers at half the damage of a Ranger (or Force if they go the PSZ route). I just mind Hunters having a special weapon that essentially destroys the use of Ranger.

Why would anyone choose to play Ranger if Hunter has better stats and just as much range and damage?

•Col•
May 1, 2011, 01:58 PM
I believe you misinterpreted my statement I was not saying that a Hunter should not have a gun option. I was arguing that a Hunter should not have a ranged weapon specifically designed for them (i.e., slicers). I would be fine with Hunters using rifles at half the damage as a Ranger or even using slicers at half the damage of a Ranger (or Force if they go the PSZ route). I just mind Hunters having a special weapon that essentially destroys the use of Ranger.

Why would anyone choose to play Ranger if Hunter has better stats and just as much range and damage?

Gets rid of the purpose of a Ranger....?

.......Have you EVER used a slicer in the past games?

RenzokukenZ
May 1, 2011, 01:59 PM
Why should Hunter have any ranged option besides using a gun? I really could not find a reason to support the argument that "Hunter should have all that HP and DFP and ATP and be as safe at a distance as Ranger."

Because slicers are essentially melee throwing blades.

Reksanden
May 1, 2011, 02:01 PM
Because slicers are essentially melee throwing blades.

And made a little weaker than their other weapons because of such, for balance I guess.

Pillan
May 1, 2011, 02:02 PM
Gets rid of the purpose of a Ranger....?

.......Have you EVER used a slicer in the past games?

Yes. In that period before acquiring a Spread Needle or Frozen Shooter on PSO (specifically as a HUcaseal for the speed bonus with them) and in that period after Acrofighter but before Gunmaster in PSU. In both cases, I found myself better off with a Cast Hunter using a slicer than as a Ranger.

Split
May 1, 2011, 02:05 PM
I hope the staff figures out how useless slicers actually are.I don't know...a slicer with high hit% in PSO was pretty useful. Still have a Rainbow Baton+24 i tekked for 35% on my offline HUcast in Ep1&2, and that owns pretty hard anywhere on Ult. It was one of my primary weapons, if only because it was one of the only 11 star weapons I ever owned..

Reksanden
May 1, 2011, 02:06 PM
Oh, they were also good for clearing rooms and hallways of traps.

FEI LEE
May 1, 2011, 02:06 PM
Wasn't a hunter using master raven essentially better than any ranger? I'm less worried about slicers and more worried about any of the guns they use overshadowing rangers.

Pillan
May 1, 2011, 02:20 PM
Wasn't a hunter using master raven essentially better than any ranger? I'm less worried about slicers and more worried about any of the guns they use overshadowing rangers.

If they go with PSP2's system of ATA based gun damage, there will be little need to worry about that. It fixed the Hunter/Ranger dynamic in that game for the most part, but it had other issues generated from melee skills being so powerful.

That being said, an ATA based slicer fixes any issues I would have with it. I just want it treated more like a gun or a tech weapon for damage calculation, so those who pay HP for range benefit more from it.

•Col•
May 1, 2011, 02:37 PM
If they go with PSP2's system of ATA based gun damage, there will be little need to worry about that. It fixed the Hunter/Ranger dynamic in that game for the most part, but it had other issues generated from melee skills being so powerful.

That being said, an ATA based slicer fixes any issues I would have with it. I just want it treated more like a gun or a tech weapon for damage calculation, so those who pay HP for range benefit more from it.

How does it make sense to be a gun or tech weapon?

Firstly, Rangers will NOT be useless in this game ever unless Sega really messes up. Guns are SO much accurate and mobile right now. Also you have to remember, you can strafe and roll around with a gun. You'd be vulnerable the entire time while attacking with the slicer. Not to mention you can get a large volley of shots of with the rifle in the time it takes you to do a normal attack combo...

And you are greatly exaggerating how good Slicers were in PSO and PSU... The one Photon Art they had in PSU was broken, but they most certainly did not make Rangers useless.

Pillan
May 1, 2011, 02:43 PM
How does it make sense to be a gun or tech weapon?

Oh, going from the looks of the weapon in PSO and PSU, it is essentially an L-shaped gun that fires a boomerang shaped blade. If you think about actually designing such a device, it would just be a gun and the swinging animations would hardly be required unless someone wanted to add in the standard wii-mote motion sensor.

As far as a tech weapon, I could not argue that. But I could not argue why any weapon you swing around would do TP based damage. It did not stop them from making the change in PSZ purely for balance purposes.

Ffuzzy-Logik
May 1, 2011, 02:45 PM
Just make them function like boomerangs, because that's all they were in the original series.

Norco
May 1, 2011, 02:49 PM
I am not 100% sure of this but. The orgin on Slicers are Boomerangs from the orginal games which was mainly used by Female Hunters from what I remember. Feel free to correct me.

Edit: Seems Ffuzzy-Logik beat me to it xD

Ffuzzy-Logik
May 1, 2011, 02:50 PM
Right, that's what I just said.

Norco
May 1, 2011, 02:52 PM
Yeah, I just edited to point that out xD

Reksanden
May 1, 2011, 02:53 PM
Just make them function like boomerangs, because that's all they were in the original series.

Not exactly. They did not return, and were actually really usefull on the bosses that had multiple segments to attack, like the one in the sewers(forgot it's name).

Ffuzzy-Logik
May 1, 2011, 02:55 PM
Aww, how quaint. Someone thinks the series started with PSO!

Reksanden
May 1, 2011, 03:00 PM
No, the slicers I'm referring to are starting from PSO, not the originals.
EDIT: Wasn't paying attention when I used that as a quote

Ffuzzy-Logik
May 1, 2011, 03:01 PM
They were called slicers in the original series, too.

I'm saying they should just make them simple old boomerangs again.

Reksanden
May 1, 2011, 03:04 PM
They did that in PSZ, just tech based rather than- never mind. Shutting up before argument continues.

NoiseHERO
May 1, 2011, 03:16 PM
IMO PSZ's slicers were perfect, giant shurikens. Instead of ToasterSwords that shot photon tacos.

As for what classes use it and what's balanced, I don't mind if forces get it again. (Mostly though because I plan to make one of my OC's a force, and he uses giant laser shurikens in my story.)

Randomness
May 1, 2011, 03:18 PM
Forces can now use guns, so I don't see why Hunters would be unable to.

-Wayu

FOs have always had guns. Look at Holy Ray from PSO, for instance... (An absolutely awesome "rifle" usable by all non-casts)

FEI LEE
May 1, 2011, 03:22 PM
IMO PSZ's slicers were perfect, giant shurikens. Instead of ToasterSwords that shot photon tacos.

As for what classes use it and what's balanced, I don't mind if forces get it again. (Mostly though because I plan to make one of my OC's a force, and he uses giant laser shurikens in my story.)

I don't mind because this is what I'm going to do. Flawless logic

NoiseHERO
May 1, 2011, 03:34 PM
I don't mind because this is what I'm going to do. Flawless logic

If it plays into my favor, nice. If it doesn't I'll probably still like the weapon because I enjoyed the toaster swords too. o_O

What's eatin' you?

FEI LEE
May 1, 2011, 03:46 PM
I just do not like you

Nothing at all. Just pointing out your post.

landman
May 1, 2011, 03:50 PM
I loved them in PSØ, they were finally back to the boomerang idea, and for me, the way you mind-controlled them was kind of original, I personally preferred them as a newman over guns, great damage (mind based) and wide range of attack (I did beat Falz in story mode with my FOnl at lvl 20 only using them lol)

Split
May 1, 2011, 03:53 PM
They were called slicers in the original series, too.

I'm saying they should just make them simple old boomerangs again.But slicers are like...boomerangs + science. Which is much cooler. Sciencerangs. That's what they should be called in PSO2...

:wacko:

NoiseHERO
May 1, 2011, 03:56 PM
Nothing at all. Just pointing out your post.

I find it funny that you're still on that. Like I said before, I don't even know you, you can waste your energy holding some non-angry grudge or whatever it is, and look for chances to attack me. Or you can just save it for a real disagreement in a "LOL forum war."

Dongra
May 1, 2011, 03:58 PM
Wasn't a hunter using master raven essentially better than any ranger? I'm less worried about slicers and more worried about any of the guns they use overshadowing rangers.
I think your memory might be a little fuzzy. Master Raven couldn't combo. Even if it did, and it does on some private servers, Rangers still, by far, overshadowed Hunters in terms of crowd control and damage.

Edit: I hope your post wasn't some kind of sarcasm that I overlooked.

BIG OLAF
May 1, 2011, 04:00 PM
Hopefully they keep the mechanic of PSO where the Slicer hits every hitbox on an emeny with multiple hitboxes. Anything else doesn't matter to me, just as long as they inflict moderate damage to many points.

FEI LEE
May 1, 2011, 04:00 PM
I find it funny that you're still on that. Like I said before, I don't even know you, you can waste your energy holding some non-angry grudge or whatever it is, and look for chances to attack me. Or you can just save it for a real disagreement in a "LOL forum war."

Actually it was meant to be a joke about how we got off on the wrong foot but in hindsight it was kind of dumb of me to try that with text where there is no tone of voice.

NoiseHERO
May 1, 2011, 04:04 PM
Actually it was meant to be a joke about how we got off on the wrong foot but in hindsight it was kind of dumb of me to try that with text where there is no tone of voice.

D: this is what typing smiley faces are for, it may look gay at first but it makes sarcasm or tone of voice a lot easier to see. But yeah, if you want a truce I don't mind... everyone just wants to play the game right? e_e

*wishing I didn't even hear about it*

FEI LEE
May 1, 2011, 04:18 PM
I think your memory might be a little fuzzy. Master Raven couldn't combo. Even if it did, and it does on some private servers, Rangers still, by far, overshadowed Hunters in terms of crowd control and damage.

Edit: I hope your post wasn't some kind of sarcasm that I overlooked.

Probably my memory since I haven't played in quite a while. And yes Mich I would prefer a truce.

Tetsaru
May 1, 2011, 05:08 PM
Personally, I've only seen how PSO's and PSU's slicers work. To me, PSO's slicers were underpowered, and PSU's were very overpowered PA-wise (iirc, their damage was glitchy too between normal and PA attacks unless it got patched).

I'd like to see the boomerang-style attack: the weapon (or projectile) would pierce enemies as it's being thrown, then make a return trip back, piercing them again. Other moves could be a "bouncing" attack that hits one enemy, then bounces off of it to hit other enemies (or back and forth between two enemies), or a move where the weapon/projectile hovers in one spot and spins rapidly like a sawblade as a sort of zone-control move. As for the weapon itself, it would need to be a Hunter/melee-based weapon with ranged capabilities, but the ATP would have to be quite low to balance its multiple hits. It'd be good for those who want a way to deal with things like flying enemies without having to resort to gun weapons (which I think should have their own stat that governs their strength anyway).

NoiseHERO
May 1, 2011, 05:39 PM
Personally, I've only seen how PSO's and PSU's slicers work. To me, PSO's slicers were underpowered, and PSU's were very overpowered PA-wise (iirc, their damage was glitchy too between normal and PA attacks unless it got patched).

I'd like to see the boomerang-style attack: the weapon (or projectile) would pierce enemies as it's being thrown, then make a return trip back, piercing them again. Other moves could be a "bouncing" attack that hits one enemy, then bounces off of it to hit other enemies (or back and forth between two enemies), or a move where the weapon/projectile hovers in one spot and spins rapidly like a sawblade as a sort of zone-control move. As for the weapon itself, it would need to be a Hunter/melee-based weapon with ranged capabilities, but the ATP would have to be quite low to balance its multiple hits. It'd be good for those who want a way to deal with things like flying enemies without having to resort to gun weapons (which I think should have their own stat that governs their strength anyway).

One of PSZ photon arts had the saw blade-like effect, and normal attackes came back like a boomerang but it would go around the entire room as it hit an an enemy, then you do the usual timing and it's go around back at the single enemy 3 times.

That along with the tech boost definitely made "FO rcing" fun.

r00tabaga
May 1, 2011, 06:12 PM
PSO style pleez...as a hunter, I needed a melee type attack for hitting mobs & getting my EXP

•Col•
May 1, 2011, 06:20 PM
PSO style pleez...as a hunter, I needed a melee type attack for hitting mobs & getting my EXP

LOL I couldn't remember why I always carried one around until I read this...

What will Hunters do if there's a much higher level character in the party? :( No way you can tag all those monsters without a slicer.

Ffuzzy-Logik
May 1, 2011, 06:22 PM
Shoot them with a handgun?

•Col•
May 1, 2011, 06:26 PM
Shoot them with a handgun?

That dun work if there are more than 3 monsters and the high leveled player is a Force. D:

NoiseHERO
May 1, 2011, 06:27 PM
I hope handguns in this game are actually good, PSO I'm unsure, but PSU just tossed it as a mini rifle that sucked unless you were dual weilding, and PSZ was okay-ish but only if you had that one firebreath PA.

and I think twin handguns in any kind of form of media is kind of overrated...

r00tabaga
May 1, 2011, 06:31 PM
Slicers hit multiple targets on 1 shot...handguns need to be shot multiple times & can't hit enemies behind enemies. Don't get me wrong, I loved PSOs handguns, but Slicer of Assassin was my best friend online just to make sure all exp is gained.

Ffuzzy-Logik
May 1, 2011, 06:33 PM
That dun work if there are more than 3 monsters and the high leveled player is a Force. D:Then you find someone else who isn't an asshole and will let you tag everything before they nuke it.

•Col•
May 1, 2011, 06:36 PM
Then you find someone else who isn't an asshole and will let you tag everything before they nuke it.

It's not even that they're asshole really. They just don't realize that they kill stuff to quickly for the other members to get exp, lol.

Ffuzzy-Logik
May 1, 2011, 06:37 PM
Then you politely let them know what they are doing.

Really, people, it isn't difficult.

Tetsaru
May 1, 2011, 06:44 PM
Depending on a lot of things, it might not be the best option for a Hunter to tag with a gun anyway if their accuracy is low, or possibly if Hunters had some sort of penalty against using gun weapons (again, maybe gun weapons won't run on ATP anymore). Who knows... just something to consider. :confused:

Also, there's also the argument that faster runs through levels with bosses = more exp overall than waiting to tag every single monster, but again, that depends on a lot of factors.

NoiseHERO
May 1, 2011, 06:58 PM
"tag tag tag", nuke everything...

It wasn't exactly uncommon to let people tag monsters before you reap them into chunks it'd take longer, but usually in this scenario the focus is more leveling than rares to begin with.

This is it's useful to find people to play with regularly or ask friends. The point of online games...

MidiPour
May 1, 2011, 07:57 PM
I don't know...a slicer with high hit% in PSO was pretty useful. Still have a Rainbow Baton+24 i tekked for 35% on my offline HUcast in Ep1&2, and that owns pretty hard anywhere on Ult. It was one of my primary weapons, if only because it was one of the only 11 star weapons I ever owned..

As I recall, slicers in ultimate mode dealt more 'miss' than hits. But maybe it was because I never had a decent ATA (never focused on a ranger).

Niloklives
May 1, 2011, 08:42 PM
Just make them function like boomerangs, because that's all they were in the original series.

I was going to say something to this effect. the only major issue with them in PSO was their retarded damage output. a beast or cast FF with a Slicer in those first months was a god. i remember being able to clear whole rooms with one use of the PA before anyone else even got close. You essentially were everyone's worst enemy just by knowing how to use timed attacks.

I think they should really go back ot the old PS model with these.


here's a thought:

Make them more like the old PS slicers, limit the range and lower damage so each hit is doing notably less than a saber, and it should be fine.

you could even have it so it was a single targeting short range weapon and that it was the PAs that made it hit enemies in groups and lines. And yet another PA that let it be used at mid to long range that can cause knock down with a little wait time since the thing has to return. Not so that its unusable, but so that it doesn't have practical applications as a common long range weapon and is more a teriary function.




As I recall, slicers in ultimate mode dealt more 'miss' than hits. But maybe it was because I never had a decent ATA (never focused on a ranger).


biggest problem I had with slicers on ult was that they were fairly slow and did almost no hit stun. They were fine if someone else was drawing aggro, but if you were soloing or had everything after you, it was usually a good idea to put them away.

Pre ult, on the other hand, slicers tore up 80% of the mines, including vol opt.

MidiPour
May 1, 2011, 09:30 PM
Pre ult, on the other hand, slicers tore up 80% of the mines, including vol opt.

Now that you mention it, I completely forgot how handy slicers were when going against Vol Opt. That and Cure/Paralysis.

Wayu
May 1, 2011, 09:38 PM
They were still a better option than trying to solo Ultimate Mines with a FOnewearl...

-Wayu

Niloklives
May 1, 2011, 10:20 PM
They were still a better option than trying to solo Ultimate Mines with a FOnewearl...

-Wayu

Depended on what you had. If you had high techs, the worst part of ult mines were those baranz. I don't know wtf they were thinking when they made those missiles, but it's clear they did not have fun in mind.

How many times did people die from someone using a PB as 20 missiles sprayed from its pods and continued seeking despite everything else being frozen from the cinema?

At first it was sad and frustrating but eventually you just had to laugh about it. My RAcaseal had over 2200 HP which was a LOT in PSO. I could be fully buffed from a four way mila&youlla s/d. someone would use their PB for one reason or another - JUST as a baranz let off a volley. Next thing I knew I had lost a scape doll. That ended really quick once I got my snow queen, but ult mines was a nightmare for that.

Hrith
May 2, 2011, 02:53 PM
They were still a better option than trying to solo Ultimate Mines with a FOnewearl...

-WayuAre you referring to PSO on the Dreamcast?
Because in PSO EpI & II and in PSO BB, FOnewearl was the fastest class for soloing Ultimate Mine offline, and second fastest online >_>


As for slicers, I loved then in PSO (Ep I & II, BB), I would sometimes kill stuff faster with my S-Rank Slicer than my S-Rank Needle (both Berserk weapons on a RAmarl), but I cannot see those slicers returning, as it has been said by Pillan.

I like the idea ofthem being FO weapons, because there are still many players who chose to be melee Forces, and they need more viable options (even though Rainbow Baton was already the best melee weapon for Forces in PSO).

Split
May 2, 2011, 08:36 PM
As I recall, slicers in ultimate mode dealt more 'miss' than hits. But maybe it was because I never had a decent ATA (never focused on a ranger).Yeah I pretty much had all Elf arms for units and I had transferred the exact number of materials and mag (I think it was Kama?) to max him out from when I first created him. I used that slicer and mechguns, mostly...I was kind of a gypsy hunter. You're right though, it probably would've better served a RAmar or something.

RemiusTA
May 2, 2011, 08:39 PM
Oh my god. These arguments.

Just make them like in PSO where they target one enemy and then bounce to adjacent enemies afterwards with a somewhat low ata.

Just dont allow them to become giant laser cannons like in PSU. Chikki was retarded, looked retarded, and broke the game for a good few months.

Niloklives
May 2, 2011, 08:57 PM
Are you reading the whole thread before you post? I don't see anyone arguing O_o

Kent
May 2, 2011, 10:40 PM
Slicers in PSO were one of my favorite weapon types to use, despite their statistical imbalance issues for a large portion of the game (most notably, being weak and inaccurate enough to call their practicality, as a weapon, into question). Weapons like the aforementioned Rainbow Baton not withstanding, of course.

That aside, I really liked the aesthetic of Slicers in PSO, in that they looked like a saber (not the "saber" weapontype, but rather, a curved, one-handed sword) but were primarily a ranged weapon categorized in a fashion to make them conducive to being used by Hunters or other melee-centric characters, rather than making their use governed by ATA, as is the case with other ranged weapons (with techniques, of course, being being ranged attacks governed by MST, albeit with a limited resource).

There are a few things that could be done with them that I think would be interesting for the weapontype in general. I liked the function of them in PSO - flinging out a crescent-shaped energy projectile that bounced between targets in a chain lightning-like fashion - and I think they could stand to largely be the same, but the heightened speed of the sequel might necessitate some changes. Making the attack animations a bit faster with more of an attack to them, so they're not quite so unwieldy, would probably be a good change. At the same time, we have to consider what Slicers have been since PSO: Weapons that "feel" like melee weapons, but hit at range. Perhaps the weapons could stand to have a double function to them, where the actual swinging animation could hit enemies and inflict damage, letting players deal extra damage to the initial target, while the projectile itself would hit an additional four nearby targets per attack.

If the system we've seen for melee weapons in the trailer is any indication, that a secondary attack button will execute a different attack based on where in the combo it is performed, then I think we could get some rather interesting results for a weapon that constitutes both a melee-usable and ranged weapon.

Naturally, a balancing measure for such a weapon would be rather interesting to deal with, as it'd be pretty much specifically a weapon useful on groups at medium-close range. Of course, the strong point of Slicers in PSO was that they were able attack and damage multiple targets that are separated from each other, in contrast to weapons such as Swords and Partisans, which require enemies be bunched together in order to damage them all, but will yield higher damage totals. I think that keeping such a dynamic in place for Slicers would work out pretty well.

On the other hand, there's the possibility that Slicer projectiles could attempt to always hit their maximum number of times, but in the case of fewer than the maximum number of targets, the projectile itself would opt to loop back and hit targets that it has already hit, effectively making the weapon more versatile, due to being more effective against smaller groups or single enemies. The problem with versatility is, as always, keeping it balanced... But it could probably work out in some manner. A versatile weapon as such, especially if it required a higher level of finesse than more direct and standard weaponry, could be very interesting to actually use in combat - similar to how many people preferred Partisans over Swords, because of the way you could time their usage properly to perfectly dodge an enemy attack after the combo, and immediately start another combo to the front of a basic Booma-like enemy.

It may not have quite as much brute force behind it, but it's more useful in the survivability it affords. The same could be designed into Slicers, except in-combat versatility, rather than raw damage (though how well that would really work may depend on how easy and streamlined and encouraged the system of switching weapons to suit the situation is). I can't really say exactly how I'd handle the balancing of that though, I just think it'd make for an interesting dynamic for a weapon type, especially a weapon type as interesting as Slicers were.

moorebounce
May 3, 2011, 05:49 PM
Well, in PSO they were multi-hitting melee thrown weapons. In PSZ they were Force-based instead. Which do you think they'll bring back, or do you think they'll be turned into Ranger weapons this time around?
EDIT: I mean, there is no guarantee that they'll bring them back, but....

To keep the crying down Sonic Team will need to keep PSO2 closer to PSO but it's looking like it will be like PSZ. So you might have answered your own question.

ARASHIKAGE
May 11, 2011, 03:50 PM
I'd love to see slicers, cards, whips and gunblades in PSO2. I think we all can agree they need balance adjustments or even their own purpose for existing.

Gunblades crushed my dreams in PSZ when I found out they replaced shots, and once I used a gunblade well... they crushed my dreams again. But I'm still open to the idea, it's just a quality plan poorly executed.

NoiseHERO
May 11, 2011, 03:58 PM
I hated the way cards looked and sounded in PSU...

I was expecting like... gambit powers(x-men) when I first heard of them.

Gunblades are meh.

Still liking PSZ slicers the most...it's actually my favorite weapon in general with PSZ after playing again a couple days ago...

Speaking of interesting ranged weapons...If they bring back bows...they'll probably be awesome, seeing how rifle game play is already 9001% less boring than past games as well.

yoshiblue
May 11, 2011, 04:11 PM
They need to give gunblades more momentum or flair.

BTW, what were the pros and cons for Crossbows in PSU?

NoiseHERO
May 11, 2011, 04:23 PM
They need to give gunblades more momentum or flair.

BTW, what were the pros and cons for Crossbows in PSU?

Pros:
Godly negative stat effects (virus, burn poison, ect.)
People rarely used em.
Tactical fighgunner's dream
S rank varients on guntecher had the best special effects.

Cons:
You had to level em for them to be good.
No fps mode.
Fighgunners were powerhouses no matter what you did, anyway.

yoshiblue
May 11, 2011, 04:26 PM
Many thanks

joshboyd1209
May 11, 2011, 06:37 PM
Maybe they will just drop slicers from this game.

NoiseHERO
May 11, 2011, 07:01 PM
Maybe they will just drop slicers from this game.

/Facedesk

They were in PSO, PSU, PSZ, EVEN CLASSIC PS or so I've heard...

joshboyd1209
May 11, 2011, 07:09 PM
/Facedesk

They were in PSO, PSU, PSZ, EVEN CLASSIC PS or so I've heard...
Just saying they might not be in this game. So why dwell on what they will be as if they were 100% going to be in there?

NoiseHERO
May 11, 2011, 07:14 PM
Just saying they might not be in this game. So why dwell on what they will be as if they were 100% going to be in there?

They were in every past game...and they might not be in this game because "maybe" I guess sonic might not be blue in his next game...

joshboyd1209
May 11, 2011, 07:23 PM
They were in every past game...and they might not be in this game because "maybe" I guess sonic might not be blue in his next game...
There is never a 100% gurantee on anything done by human hands, because we just don't seem to be capable of getting things right same goes for this there might not be slicers and sonic might be green in his next game you aren't the game designer so you cannot say they will be there.

•Col•
May 11, 2011, 07:33 PM
There is never a 100% gurantee on anything done by human hands, because we just don't seem to be capable of getting things right same goes for this there might not be slicers and sonic might be green in his next game you aren't the game designer so you cannot say they will be there.

True, but at this point, it's like saying Sabers might not return.

Possibly, but extremely unlikely.

NoiseHERO
May 11, 2011, 07:37 PM
There is never a 100% gurantee on anything done by human hands, because we just don't seem to be capable of getting things right same goes for this there might not be slicers and sonic might be green in his next game you aren't the game designer so you cannot say they will be there.

Let's say chocobos won't be in ff15 while we're at it. 8D

I'm sure plently of people will agree you're just posting for the hell of it. when you start talking like that to protect your argument. We may not be the game designers but even speculation has common sense, slicers MIGHT be arguable *cough* but Sonic being green is someone getting slapped...

joshboyd1209
May 11, 2011, 07:39 PM
True, but at this point, it's like saying Sabers might not return.

Possibly, but extremely unlikely.
Actually it's not quite the same, because sabers and slicers are in a different area more like saying something like whips might not return(if they were even in PSO ) you know say something that you couldn't get from the start like long swords or mechguns even and it's a more accurate comparison. I just don't think that you should be trying to guess what it's going to be turned into before we even know if they're even going to be in it.

NoiseHERO
May 11, 2011, 07:48 PM
Actually it's not quite the same, because sabers and slicers are in a different area more like saying something like whips might not return(if they were even in PSO ) you know say something that you couldn't get from the start like long swords or mechguns even and it's a more accurate comparison. I just don't think that you should be trying to guess what it's going to be turned into before we even know if they're even going to be in it.

Wait so slicers have been in the game just like saber in all the games...

But it'd be in the same what YOU would call a "de-prioritized" category alongside whips...?

http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3217/3015062728_6b27f9a6ae.jpg

...

joshboyd1209
May 11, 2011, 07:59 PM
Wait so slicers have been in the game just like saber in all the games...

But it'd be in the same what YOU would call a "de-prioritized" category alongside whips...?
...
Essentially they might decide that they don't fit the bill any more. And that no one uses them so they might just drop them. What I was really saying though is hunters have almost always started out with sabers so if they remove them it's not going to be very fun so I wouldn't think it's quite an accurate comparison to say that it would be the same.

Niloklives
May 11, 2011, 09:16 PM
so like...if sabers were removed from the game, we'd be stuck using our hands? josh, I think you need a cat.

joshboyd1209
May 11, 2011, 09:23 PM
so like...if sabers were removed from the game, we'd be stuck using our hands? josh, I think you need a cat.
I have a cat. Why would I need one by the way? Also as far as I'm concerned starting out with a saber is something that's expected if you're expected.

Sord
May 11, 2011, 10:56 PM
I can't speak for slicers outside of PSO and PSU. I did play some of the original and still have the 3-in-1 anthology for gameboy advance but have never gotten that far into it because traditional RPG is not my style of play.

Anyhow, I'd like slicers to return, and they most likely will, but I honestly wouldn't care much if they didn't. At early levels in PSO, slicers really weren't good for that much outside of taking down weak hordes like canadines, claws, gilchics, and any variation there-of. They were weak as hell and the accuracy was deplorable. You could definitely get a nice, good one more near endgame, but getting one with good hit percentage bonuses could take a long time for drops, but that was really only for the people that made it that far and were that dedicated to hunting one with good hit. It always felt more like a novelty type weapon to me. Don't get me wrong though, I still had fun with it, even had a RAcast I made specifically to use slicers, went by the name Buckabee. It's just there always seemed to be better options (be it herding monsters with melee weapons or using a shot.)

PSU slicers came out while I was playing PSU, and as some others said, they were broken and OP as all hell when they were initially released. They did do some balancing before I quit playing, but everyone still bickered about it anyhow and I'm not sure it was every properly balanced. A hunter weapon that's a ranged AOE is just inherently an odd thing to balance. Like someone said, what's the point of even doing ranger if a hunter can do just as good or better from a distance as well? If it's to strong, rangers bitch they're being outclassed, if it's to weak, hunters bitch what's the point, and if you go middleground and nerf the accuracy it's just aggravating to see MISS MISS MISS and people bitch about that.

Even though I never got to them, it would be kind of cool to see them in the old boomerang style from the old ones that some people were talking about (or Zero I guess, though I'm not very familiar with that title at all.) So I'm kind of just on the fence about it. If they put them in, great, I just hope the balancing is done well. If they don't, I'm not really going to be upset about it.

Niloklives
May 11, 2011, 11:16 PM
YUCK! I would never work there let alone manage it. I'm thinking going more into the technological business. Maybe pushing the envelope with computers bringing stuff to the light that wouldn't be possible at the current time and work myself to death until I succeed in making it(I'm talking making stuff that wouldn't be available normally for another 20-30 years or so now ) I think with a few basic high school tech classes I'll be able to take some of the principles taught in them and be able to make some more advanced things(e.g. using basic flash gaming to make an intense web browser based 3-D flash game with the help of a few graphics programs ).

Not if you think you need a soldering iron to build a computer. trust me, you'll be working at Denny's. good luck.

Purple Lamplight
May 12, 2011, 07:17 AM
Why not just make them like they did in PSU, you could actually do high amounts of damage with them compared to in PSO. In PSO the only boss that it was even slightly good to use against was De Rol Le or Barba Ray

Niloklives
May 12, 2011, 09:05 AM
Why not just make them like they did in PSU, you could actually do high amounts of damage with them compared to in PSO. In PSO the only boss that it was even slightly good to use against was De Rol Le or Barba Ray

Are you kidding? slicers ripped the dragon and vol opt apart. they also made mines before ult a cake walk. I dunno what game you were playing but slicers in the right hands wrecked things.

joshboyd1209
May 12, 2011, 10:09 AM
Not if you think you need a soldering iron to build a computer. trust me, you'll be working at Denny's. good luck.
Trust me I will not be working at denny's. Even if I don't go into the technological field I have a few different other ideas as to fields I can go into.

Niloklives
May 12, 2011, 10:23 AM
Chevy's it is, then.

joshboyd1209
May 12, 2011, 10:37 AM
Chevy's it is, then.
Won't be working anywhere like that(is that a restraunt? or are you talking about the car dealer? ) Also if they give HUmars that neat weapon from the video to start out with I could forgive them for removing sabers. However it's not likely that we're going to see them chuck sabers out the window slicers are in the realm of possiblity though. Reason 1 in all of the more recent PS games they were not available in the store(at least not at low character levels and they weren't very good ) reason 2 they are not one of the most popular types of weapons reason 3 they didn't do nearly as good of a job as killing stuff as just about everything else they also weren't made by all groups of manufactures and the Kubara ones often times just looked silly/girly.

Niloklives
May 12, 2011, 10:58 AM
whatever you say josh, you're all knowing.

joshboyd1209
May 12, 2011, 11:01 AM
whatever you say josh, you're all knowing.
ha ha ha very funny

~sarcasm

•Col•
May 12, 2011, 11:12 AM
Reason 1 in all of the more recent PS games they were not available in the store(at least not at low character levels and they weren't very good )

Plenty of weapons types aren't available until later in the game. Double sabers, whips, cards, cannons, grenade launchers, crossbows, axes... I like to think they're more "advanced" weapon types that fill a niche between the starting weapon types.


reason 2 they are not one of the most popular types of weapons

Nice assumption. They were a hell of a lot more popular than a bunch of other weapon types, at least.


reason 3 they didn't do nearly as good of a job as killing stuff as just about everything else they also weren't made by all groups of manufactures and the Kubara ones often times just looked silly/girly.

They weren't ever meant to kill stuff. They were supposed to be used either to get some extra damage on the monsters before you run in with another weapon or to hit a monster you couldn't reach, lol. And... Really? You're saying slicers shouldn't return because they look silly and/or girly? ....... Really?

I don't even really care if slicers return in PSO2, but your arguments are just stupid. :l

joshboyd1209
May 12, 2011, 11:15 AM
Plenty of weapons types aren't available until later in the game. Double sabers, whips, cards, cannons, grenade launchers, crossbows, axes... I like to think they're more "advanced" weapon types that fill a niche between the starting weapon types.



Nice assumption. They were a hell of a lot more popular than a bunch of other weapon types, at least.



They weren't ever meant to kill stuff. They were supposed to be used either to get some extra damage on the monsters before you run in with another weapon or to hit a monster you couldn't reach, lol. And... Really? You're saying slicers shouldn't return because they look silly and/or girly? ....... Really?

I don't even really care if slicers return in PSO2, but your arguments are just stupid. :l
I wasn't saying they shouldn't return, because they were girly. I'm just saying they haven't been doing the best of job on design purposes so I think they're a likely canidate to get kicked off.

Niloklives
May 12, 2011, 11:48 AM
Plenty of weapons types aren't available until later in the game. Double sabers, whips, cards, cannons, grenade launchers, crossbows, axes... I like to think they're more "advanced" weapon types that fill a niche between the starting weapon types.



Nice assumption. They were a hell of a lot more popular than a bunch of other weapon types, at least.



They weren't ever meant to kill stuff. They were supposed to be used either to get some extra damage on the monsters before you run in with another weapon or to hit a monster you couldn't reach, lol. And... Really? You're saying slicers shouldn't return because they look silly and/or girly? ....... Really?

I don't even really care if slicers return in PSO2, but your arguments are just stupid. :l


The slicer's main purpose is to hit large groups of enemies for medium damage at incredibly fast rate. While one hunter would run in and draw aggro, keeping the enemies grouped together, someone with a slicer could to go town, hitting the entire bunch for ridiculous amounts of damage. In PSO, it could hit all sections of a multisectioned target. This made it easy to take out bosses like vol opt and the dragon in a matter of seconds.

Slicers were incredibly underrated as weapons. Admittedly they were situational, but in those situations, they were extremely overpowered.

PSU's Chikki was pretty much game-breaking. it functioned as an incredibly fast, high powered laser that you could get a 100% critical hit rate with. that PA had to be nerfed twice it was so busted. Before the first nerf it was so OP, you could kill lvl 140 groups as they spawned and take out lines of enemies before they could turn to face you. even after the nerf, they wrecked large groups.

Heck in PS, they hit whole rows of enemies for decent damage every turn. They were always awesome weapons and at this point they're a staple of the series.


I wasn't saying they shouldn't return, because they were girly. I'm just saying they haven't been doing the best of job on design purposes so I think they're a likely canidate to get kicked off.

You're like brand new to video games and 14. why do you keep talking like your highly uninformed opinions are the basis by which everything else is run?

r00tabaga
May 12, 2011, 11:53 AM
Diska of Braverman & Slicer of Assassin were not "uber" rares at all, but I loved them for their asthetics. They looked F'in awesome & matched both my hunter's & mag's color scheme at that time. That was one of the things about PSO I liked a lot. It didn't matter what weapon you had, if it was fun to use or you preferred it for just plain looks, go for it. In PSU, I was always trading up to the highest weapon regardless & dumping or selling older/weaker weapons.

Niloklives
May 12, 2011, 12:07 PM
I used some weapons for aethetics or because their stats more suited my style. I certainly wasn't about to use a 6* spear over a mugunburga. In PSO, slicers were like mechguns though. their stats were almost nonexistent so you had a little freedom. By your logic, people used a saber instead of an orotiagito for aesthetics. We all know there's a limit to which looks can outweigh functionality.

r00tabaga
May 12, 2011, 12:14 PM
Yeah, that's for sure. I used Musashi's & Yamato's a lot 'cuz they looked cool to me and each had nice special attacks, but if I ever found the Sange & Yasha I woulda dumped 'em in a second!

joshboyd1209
May 12, 2011, 01:00 PM
The slicer's main purpose is to hit large groups of enemies for medium damage at incredibly fast rate. While one hunter would run in and draw aggro, keeping the enemies grouped together, someone with a slicer could to go town, hitting the entire bunch for ridiculous amounts of damage. In PSO, it could hit all sections of a multisectioned target. This made it easy to take out bosses like vol opt and the dragon in a matter of seconds.

Slicers were incredibly underrated as weapons. Admittedly they were situational, but in those situations, they were extremely overpowered.

PSU's Chikki was pretty much game-breaking. it functioned as an incredibly fast, high powered laser that you could get a 100% critical hit rate with. that PA had to be nerfed twice it was so busted. Before the first nerf it was so OP, you could kill lvl 140 groups as they spawned and take out lines of enemies before they could turn to face you. even after the nerf, they wrecked large groups.

Heck in PS, they hit whole rows of enemies for decent damage every turn. They were always awesome weapons and at this point they're a staple of the series.



You're like brand new to video games and 14. why do you keep talking like your highly uninformed opinions are the basis by which everything else is run?

That might have been the case in PSO, but in the PSU series they were extremely pathetic I only used them every once in a while, because they had both long range and short range capabilities.

Niloklives
May 12, 2011, 01:10 PM
did you read what I just said about PSU? I just said slicers were busted!!

•Col•
May 12, 2011, 01:15 PM
The slicer's main purpose is to hit large groups of enemies for medium damage at incredibly fast rate. While one hunter would run in and draw aggro, keeping the enemies grouped together, someone with a slicer could to go town, hitting the entire bunch for ridiculous amounts of damage. In PSO, it could hit all sections of a multisectioned target. This made it easy to take out bosses like vol opt and the dragon in a matter of seconds.

Slicers were incredibly underrated as weapons. Admittedly they were situational, but in those situations, they were extremely overpowered.

PSU's Chikki was pretty much game-breaking. it functioned as an incredibly fast, high powered laser that you could get a 100% critical hit rate with. that PA had to be nerfed twice it was so busted. Before the first nerf it was so OP, you could kill lvl 140 groups as they spawned and take out lines of enemies before they could turn to face you. even after the nerf, they wrecked large groups.

Heck in PS, they hit whole rows of enemies for decent damage every turn. They were always awesome weapons and at this point they're a staple of the series.


I know how they were in PSO and PSU; I used them quite a bit. :) My point was just that slicers aren't really supposed to be used to kill stuff, or at least, even if they are, they're supposed to kill stuff A LOT slower than other melee types. It goes against the entire idea of being a Hunter to sit way back and kill everything, lol.

EDIT:

That might have been the case in PSO, but in the PSU series they were extremely pathetic I only used them every once in a while, because they had both long range and short range capabilities.

He said Slicers were only really useful in certain situation in PSO, and in PSU they were totally OP because of their Photon Arts... Did you even use them in PSU? o.O I don't really care about damage outputs in these games, but even I thought that the Chikki PA was too good...

Akaimizu
May 12, 2011, 01:19 PM
The slicer's OP status in PSU was one of the hunter-breaking things I definitely noticed. It really broke convention with what a Hunter was supposed to be, and their stats. For a class with extra HP, lots of Strength, and basically hardy characters it just seemed like they really went backwards for the game. It's not only the aspect of giving them a long ranged weapon that could eat Lasers for breakfast lunch and dinner, it gave them a *safe* ranged weapon that could do rediculous amounts of damage. Precisely the thing SEGA did not want to give to Rangers. But somehow, that rule slipped their mind with Hunter classes. Hmmmm. Really?

Never knew what went through their heads in allowing that. Given that, from conception, the rangers having a rule to try to limit damage for weapons that reach far. The real backwards thing is breaking convention from the typical mantra of hunters. It's supposed to be a risk reward thing. Simple game balance mechanics anybody making a warrior-style class should follow in any action RPG in existence.

If something makes you go in close, have a long startup and maybe vulnerability at the end, it should do more damage than something for which you can be out of range with, shoot from afar, and even ignore certain barriers guns couldn't. It just seemed wrong making Swords do way less damage than Slicers on a fighter class. So actually, the worst part of it wasn't exactly the idea of the possible imbalance to rangers. If we took the Ranger equation completely out of this point, it certainly broke the hunter weapon balance even if just considering what it does to the Hunter alone.

Niloklives
May 12, 2011, 01:23 PM
well they didn't kill slower, they killed large groups. most weapons had a limit to the number of targets they could hit and required you to reposition to keep from getting hit. a slicer let you just hang back and take out swarms of enemies at once. I found they actually killed enemies faster overall of you're talking about kills/time and not just how fast they could kill taking them on one at a time. that's the whole point though, slicers were never about killing a single target, they were about slaughtering groups.

Hell the rainbow baton cause confusion. that made the enemies bunch up and hit eachother AS you damaged them. Absolutely if you took on a single enemy with a slicer they were pretty much pointless, but large groups and bosses rarely died faster than what came from a good slicer.

Akaimizu
May 12, 2011, 01:24 PM
Hard to say. A slicer PA on one person still did like over 9000. Good luck getting even some gunners to do that with a *close range* shotgun blast. For which that amount of power was meant to happen only at close range because the ranger then took a bigger risk.

Niloklives
May 12, 2011, 01:25 PM
The slicer's OP status in PSU was one of the hunter-breaking things I definitely noticed. It really broke convention with what a Hunter was supposed to be, and their stats. For a class with extra HP, lots of Strength, and basically hardy characters it just seemed like they really went backwards for the game. It's not only the aspect of giving them a long ranged weapon that could eat Lasers for breakfast lunch and dinner, it gave them a *safe* ranged weapon that could do rediculous amounts of damage. Precisely the thing SEGA did not want to give to Rangers. But somehow, that rule slipped their mind with Hunter classes. Hmmmm. Really?

Never knew what went through their heads in allowing that. Given that, from conception, the rangers having a rule to try to limit damage for weapons that reach far. The real backwards thing is breaking convention from the typical mantra of hunters. It's supposed to be a risk reward thing. Simple game balance mechanics anybody making a warrior-style class should follow in any action RPG in existence.

If something makes you go in close, have a long startup and maybe vulnerability at the end, it should do more damage than something for which you can be out of range with, shoot from afar, and even ignore certain barriers guns couldn't. It just seemed wrong making Swords do way less damage than Slicers on a fighter class. So actually, the worst part of it wasn't exactly the idea of the possible imbalance to rangers. If we took the Ranger equation completely out of this point, it certainly broke the hunter weapon balance even if just considering what it does to the Hunter alone.

I agree. Early AoI slicers made just about any other weapon for hunters pointless.

Akaimizu
May 12, 2011, 01:26 PM
They still make the decision to even decide to choose Swords (Whose main aspect is to hit a group at close range) a decision based on style, but not effectiveness. Where's the hunter balance consideration?

Niloklives
May 12, 2011, 01:32 PM
Right. why get close in and hit 3-4 targets while risking life and limb when you can hang back and cleave entire group in twain with the screen filling laser of death? worse still the vertical hit box was ridiculous.

It was like selecting to nerf yourself to go with a sword. I remember doing winter festa with all the robots on the train and clearing out the room with one timed attack on the highest difficulty. This was with an 8* slicer and a lvl 100/10 Male beast FF. The PA wasn't even out of its 20s yet, but you can bet I capped it before the event was over.

•Col•
May 12, 2011, 01:33 PM
well they didn't kill slower, they killed large groups. most weapons had a limit to the number of targets they could hit and required you to reposition to keep from getting hit. a slicer let you just hang back and take out swarms of enemies at once. I found they actually killed enemies faster overall of you're talking about kills/time and not just how fast they could kill taking them on one at a time. that's the whole point though, slicers were never about killing a single target, they were about slaughtering groups.

Hell the rainbow baton cause confusion. that made the enemies bunch up and hit eachother AS you damaged them. Absolutely if you took on a single enemy with a slicer they were pretty much pointless, but large groups and bosses rarely died faster than what came from a good slicer.

I'm basing my judgement on both PSO and PSU. They limited the amount of targets a Slicer could hit (I believe it was only 3)... And Chikki was obviously a mistake. But again, what I'm trying to say is, slicers COULD be used as a primary weapon to kill stuff, but it is my opinion that they shouldn't be designed that way.

r00tabaga
May 12, 2011, 01:38 PM
Swords in the teaser video look to have their PSO attack speed back from the looks of it, so that'll balance out some of the negatives. Slicers were great complimentary weapons.

Niloklives
May 12, 2011, 01:41 PM
I'm not sure about the limitation on hits. the PA certainly didn't suffer from it. you're right though they were never intended to be uses for a single target nor should they be.

•Col•
May 12, 2011, 01:45 PM
I'm not sure about the limitation on hits. the PA certainly didn't suffer from it. you're right though they were never intended to be uses for a single target nor should they be.

Yeah, the PA's didn't have the limitation for some reason.... Which... Kinda makes me upset now that I think about it. They should've made it the other way around; have the normal attacks hit all enemies in the line, and limit the Photon Arts only hit 3-4 enemies. :/

Akaimizu
May 12, 2011, 01:47 PM
That would have been much better. The Slicer would retain the tagging status, wouldn't make Rangers feel pointless. (Or more so, all that extra HP and resilience seem pointless. If you can tank a bit, you should be required to use that ability. Not treat your Hunter as a powerful ranger. They clearly made a similar mistake (but with weapon selection) in PSZ. It was the Cast Hunter being a better ranger than Cast Ranger that was the last straw to get PSP2 to change the main damage statistic for guns) Still, it wouldn't be enough to solve the Sword Issue. Technically, they should've treated swords like mini axes. No PA quite a powerful as Jabroga or anything, but definitely with some strong general attacks that makes going in and using such a risky weapon worth it. Kill the enemy limitation on regular sword attacks too.

In every other game I've even come across, they make taking such a risk for a short AOE weapon you need to run in for, completely worth it. They also kind of needed to make the slicer not do a bit more damage on melee-resistant enemies than a laser does on bullet-vulnerable ones. Just little things to deter a hunter from becoming a 90% slicer user.

joshboyd1209
May 12, 2011, 05:45 PM
I know how they were in PSO and PSU; I used them quite a bit. :) My point was just that slicers aren't really supposed to be used to kill stuff, or at least, even if they are, they're supposed to kill stuff A LOT slower than other melee types. It goes against the entire idea of being a Hunter to sit way back and kill everything, lol.

EDIT:


He said Slicers were only really useful in certain situation in PSO, and in PSU they were totally OP because of their Photon Arts... Did you even use them in PSU? o.O I don't really care about damage outputs in these games, but even I thought that the Chikki PA was too good...

I used them a little in PSP1, but I never actually had PSU, PSU.


The slicer's OP status in PSU was one of the hunter-breaking things I definitely noticed. It really broke convention with what a Hunter was supposed to be, and their stats. For a class with extra HP, lots of Strength, and basically hardy characters it just seemed like they really went backwards for the game. It's not only the aspect of giving them a long ranged weapon that could eat Lasers for breakfast lunch and dinner, it gave them a *safe* ranged weapon that could do rediculous amounts of damage. Precisely the thing SEGA did not want to give to Rangers. But somehow, that rule slipped their mind with Hunter classes. Hmmmm. Really?

Never knew what went through their heads in allowing that. Given that, from conception, the rangers having a rule to try to limit damage for weapons that reach far. The real backwards thing is breaking convention from the typical mantra of hunters. It's supposed to be a risk reward thing. Simple game balance mechanics anybody making a warrior-style class should follow in any action RPG in existence.

If something makes you go in close, have a long startup and maybe vulnerability at the end, it should do more damage than something for which you can be out of range with, shoot from afar, and even ignore certain barriers guns couldn't. It just seemed wrong making Swords do way less damage than Slicers on a fighter class. So actually, the worst part of it wasn't exactly the idea of the possible imbalance to rangers. If we took the Ranger equation completely out of this point, it certainly broke the hunter weapon balance even if just considering what it does to the Hunter alone.

Yeah they definetly would have fit in better on a ranger form the sounds of it.


Swords in the teaser video look to have their PSO attack speed back from the looks of it, so that'll balance out some of the negatives. Slicers were great complimentary weapons.

Just in case you hadn't heard, they got it back in PSP2I. And from looking at the video I would say that they got it back ten full if those are swords that is.


did you read what I just said about PSU? I just said slicers were busted!! I swear to god I wish they could ban you for being stupid.

I wasn't being stupid in case you haven't noticed I have never played with slicers very much so I didn't really understand what you were saying about them in PSU.

•Col•
May 12, 2011, 05:55 PM
I wasn't being stupid in case you haven't noticed I have never played with slicers very much so I didn't really understand what you were saying about them in PSU.

So.... You've barely used Slicers in ANY of the games, and here you are making a bunch of inaccurate assumptions and claims about them...

I wonder why he called you stupid...

joshboyd1209
May 12, 2011, 06:01 PM
So.... You've barely used Slicers in ANY of the games, and here you are making a bunch of inaccurate assumptions and claims about them...

I wonder why he called you stupid...
I've used them enough in the PSU series to know I don't like them in the PSO games however my HUmar is still only level 19 so I'm still working on getting up to a point to where I can use them the slicers I'm saying no to are the pathetic ones from the PSU series.

•Col•
May 12, 2011, 06:06 PM
I've used them enough in the PSU series to know I don't like them in the PSO games however my HUmar is still only level 19 so I'm still working on getting up to a point to where I can use them the slicers I'm saying no to are the pathetic ones from the PSU series.

Orly?


I used them a little in PSP1, but I never actually had PSU, PSU.

So you've already admitted that haven't used them at all in PSU. And you just said you haven't used them in PSO... And if you were paying attention at all earlier, Nilok said that the ones in PSO are only really good in certain situations. The ones in PSU are WAAAAAAAAY better overall (due to broken PAs, but still).

Again, I have to ask myself... WHY would he call YOU stupid? It really is perplexing.

joshboyd1209
May 12, 2011, 06:17 PM
Orly?



So you've already admitted that haven't used them at all in PSU. And you just said you haven't used them in PSO... And if you were paying attention at all earlier, Nilok said that the ones in PSO are only really good in certain situations. The ones in PSU are WAAAAAAAAY better over (due to broken PAs, but still).

Again, I have to ask myself... WHY would he call YOU stupid? It really is perplexing.
I don't see much if any possible differences in the slicers in the PSP games. If there are please do elaborate on what they may be.

EDIT: Also when I can use slicers in PSO I'm going to try them for myself and see how well they work for things like Vol Opt and the Dragon you guys mentioned them working against so well on.

Niloklives
May 13, 2011, 03:18 AM
Please don't. You're just going to screw that up and complain about how the game sucks cause you can't aim. No one wants to hear that. I really hope I don't run into you on PSO2.

I have explained what made slicers so good. Trying to explain it again is a waste of my time and a waste of everyone else's.