Osama Bin Laden is dead

[Raikomaru]

Just thought y'all should know.

[Tyreek]

More source would make me a happy boy thanks. I await the news to make it very vocal.

[SpikeOtacon]

Counter-Terrorists Win.

EDIT: At the moment it's a bunch of "sources" telling news agencies what Obama's big announcement is tonight. The URL says "Subject Unknown" (http://news.blogs.cnn.com/2011/05/01/obama-to-make-statment-tonight-subject-unknown/?hpt=C1) but the page says that "sources" say osama bin ladin is dead. So it's hard to give a really good link for ya. I'll be keeping an eye on the news that's for sure.

[Ryno]

i need to see a video for proof that he's dead instead of a speech or articles.....

[Tyreek]

May I also question that Bin Laden was one of the original benefactors to 9-11 correct? The whole reason we were in Afghanastan to begin with right? If so and this turns out to be true, then justice was long, and hard, but now served.

[BIG OLAF]

May I also question that Bin Laden was one of the original benefactors to 9-11 correct? The whole reason we were in Afghanastan to begin with right? If so and this turns out to be true, then justice was long, and hard, but now served.

*immature snickering*

....but, uh, yeah. There's been at least a dozen reports of his "death" in the past 10 years, so I'll believe it when I see some corpse pictures.

[Tetsaru]

Been watching this on the news now for a while. I'm sure a lot of Americans are relieved to hear this news (myself included), but I'm a bit concerned about how al-Quada, the Taliban, or other Middle Eastern groups/countries will react...

[Tyreek]

I just hope this "news", if its true of course, doesn't mean the government will put its guard down.

[Sinue_v2]

Well, Obama is on TV now confirming that we have the body... so... yeah, he's probably dead. And Bush is probably fuming that he won't get the opportunity to put Bin Laden's head on a pike out on the Whitehouse Lawn.

At any rate, it's about fucking time.

[Tyreek]

When I mentioned, long, and hard justice, I also meant a hot poker up the ass in hell.

[Wayu]

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20110502/ap_on_re_us/us_bin_laden

-Wayu

[Ark22]

Not to kill the party but this can spark a **** load of retaliation. So now we have to increase security and many other things. We just started a whole new fire

[Sinue_v2]

Not to kill the party but this can spark a **** load of retaliation.

I think everyone already knows that, and they know we're not leaving Afghanistan anytime soon.

What I'm most worried about this sparking is a rejuvenated wave of 9/11 truther fuckheads. You know, scientists around the world work their asses off devoted to teasing out the mysteries of the universe and using that knowledge to develop technology and medicines... and they don't get shit for recognition for what they do. Yet these Neo-Wannabes with their blurry youtube videos and "red pill rhetoric" scream into their fucking bullhorns and expect everyone to suck their balls.

God those guys are a fucking laugh and a half when you remind them that, even if they did have "the truth" on their side, they're still apparently powerless to do shit about it except troll on the internet.

[Bou]

President said the US will stay vigilant at home and abroad.

Ding Dong Bin Laden's Dead XD

[Dhylec]

Not to kill the party but this can spark a **** load of retaliation. So now we have to increase security and many other things. We just started a whole new fire

I think the govt knows about this when they ordered the kill.

[Wayu]

I just hope Al-Qaeda doesn't go ballistic and bombs every damned American structure out there, international schools included.

-Wayu

[Bou]

I just hope Al-Qaeda doesn't go ballistic and bombs every damned American structure out there, international schools included.

-Wayu

No worries Wayu, if they do counter attack us they'll start with the troops in Pakistan, then the country itself^^;

[Ark22]

I just hope Al-Qaeda doesn't go ballistic and bombs every damned American structure out there, international schools included.

-Wayu

I will pick you up in my private jet =D

[Shakuri]

See, the PSN hacker made himself useful.

[RenzokukenZ]

While this is of course good news, one has to wonder.

A gaping hole in power has been left behind. Many will try and fill that hole, spawning more threats to compensate the one lost. It was the same with Suddan.

Things will get worse before they get better.

[Blue-Hawk]

Rejoice, one and all, for we are living in history right this moment.

YEAH!!!

Edit- Betch it'll be a little harder to bash Obama now.

[Ark22]

Now I know how WWII felt like!!! Quick I need to find a girl to kiss!

[Corey Blue]

Hell yeah!

[N.i.r.v.a.n.a.]

Hell yeah!

^This is what my grandpa shouted in the living room, hehe :-)
But yeah, excited to hear this! It's about time!

[GCoffee]

Perhaps it is because I am not American that I cannot understand this joy.
Osama Bin Laden retired from his function of the organization's head a long time ago, so his dead means nothing.

I also wonder if he accidentially was killed or executed right away. I know who he is, but I still would apply to human rights. Any soldier would forget about that when he has that person right in his face, however that does not mean it's right.

[therealAERO]

Perhaps it is because I am not American that I cannot understand this joy.
Osama Bin Laden retired from his function of the organization's head a long time ago, so his dead means nothing.

I also wonder if he accidentially was killed or executed right away. I know who he is, but I still would apply to human rights. Any soldier would forget about that when he has that person right in his face, however that does not mean it's right.

Seriously give me a break. He did not deserve any sort of human rights. Where were the rights of the people that were killed when the Twin Towers fell(not to mention all of the other deaths by his hand)

There is no statute of limitation on murder.

International crimes

By way of custom of international law, genocide, crimes against humanity, and war crimes are usually not subject to statute of limitations, nor to prescription. This custom has been codified in a number of multilateral treaties. States that ratify the Convention on the Non-Applicability of Statutory Limitations to War Crimes and Crimes Against Humanity agree to not allow limitations claims for these crimes. Article 29 of the Rome Statute of the International Criminal Court states that genocide, crimes against humanity, and war crimes "shall not be subject to any statute of limitations".

Heinous crimes in the U.S.

Crimes that are considered exceptionally heinous by society have no statute of limitations. As a rule, murder (especially capital murder or first degree murder) has no statute of limitations.

[GCoffee]

Quoting a law that might in one's eyes also be a sad one is not going to convince me, you know. Do you realize what this law means? If some fanatic soldier decides to do whatever to a prisoner without that really mattering, something is utterly wrong. Even if that prisoner would be a murderer. Such things are allowed due to this law.

Human rights are human rights, excluding people would kinda defy the point of it.

[therealAERO]

Quoting a law that might in one's eyes also be a sad one is not going to convince me, you know. Do you realize what this law means? If some fanatic soldier decides to do whatever to a prisoner without that really mattering, something is utterly wrong. Even if that prisoner would be a murderer. Such things are allowed due to this law.

Human rights are human rights, excluding people would kinda defy the point of it.

What is exactly is your problem? Thousands of people were killed and Osama Bin Laden took credit for that.

Seriously...shut up.

Do you feel the same way about Hitler or Sadam Hussein?

I have so much I could say but it would be wasted on you.

Later

[Ark22]

If Hitler was here he wouldn't even be here, heck his entire bloodline would be killed.
It's all about justice and since you don't think you were affected you don't think anything was served. But your opinion is greatly respected by me, just don't screw with others opinions. We Americans can get very Patriotic about things.

[redroses]

Quoting a law that might in one's eyes also be a sad one is not going to convince me, you know. Do you realize what this law means? If some fanatic soldier decides to do whatever to a prisoner without that really mattering, something is utterly wrong. Even if that prisoner would be a murderer. Such things are allowed due to this law.

Human rights are human rights, excluding people would kinda defy the point of it.

Human rights should be for humans, and people like Osama Bin Laden or other crazy fucks like murderers etc. should not be seen as humans anymore and therefore should have their human rights revoked.
Can't recall people like him giving a fuck about human rights, so why would he deserve any?

[Sinue_v2]

Human rights are human rights, excluding people would kinda defy the point of it.


What is exactly is your problem? Thousands of people were killed and Osama Bin Laden took credit for that.

Seriously...shut up.

Dude, he made a good point. Rights are rights, and either they apply to everyone (the best and the worst of us), or they apply to no-one. At which point they become a bunch of quaint, as Carlin put it, temporary privileges which can be revoked whenever they become inconvenient to the powers that be. Which is exactly what they've proven to be time and time again, as people hold those principles they enshrine as sacred, yet vastly underestimate the full weight of upholding those principles. Especially in moments of fear and uncertainty.

As Thomas Paine put it; "He that would make his own liberty secure, must guard even his enemy from oppression; for if he violates this duty, he establishes a precedent that will reach to himself."

Whether or not he deserved to die for his role in the atrocities his organization committed, that's something that can be debated - and I think I'm with the majority of not just the US, but the worldwide majority in this, that yes he did deserve what he got. However, that does not nullify his human rights - and to suggest such is the case is to endorse evil as a remedy to evil for the sake of getting your rocks off on some righteous justice.


And really, the best counter-argument you have to his point is "Shut the fuck up"?

[Shakuri]

You can't argue with strong emotions, as it doesn't ever get anywhere.

Obviously a capture would have been better, as he likely had decent rare loot (see; intel) on Al-Qaeda activities. Of course, he knew what his options were, being captured was one he wouldn't have gone along with. Escape or die. That was about it.

Anyway, good for America, their boogeyman is dead.

[Palle]

My my, we are bloodthirsty on this board.

[Fox2Tails]

I got woken up by this and just shrugged it off, I was more interested in something else in the news

[therealAERO]

Dude, he made a good point. Rights are rights, and either they apply to everyone (the best and the worst of us), or they apply to no-one. At which point they become a bunch of quaint, as Carlin put it, temporary privileges which can be revoked whenever they become inconvenient to the powers that be. Which is exactly what they've proven to be time and time again, as people hold those principles they enshrine as sacred, yet vastly underestimate the full weight of upholding those principles. Especially in moments of fear and uncertainty.

As Thomas Paine put it; "He that would make his own liberty secure, must guard even his enemy from oppression; for if he violates this duty, he establishes a precedent that will reach to himself."

Whether or not he deserved to die for his role in the atrocities his organization committed, that's something that can be debated - and I think I'm with the majority of not just the US, but the worldwide majority in this, that yes he did deserve what he got. However, that does not nullify his human rights - and to suggest such is the case is to endorse evil as a remedy to evil for the sake of getting your rocks off on some righteous justice.


And really, the best counter-argument you have to his point is "Shut the fuck up"?

I only said "shut up" and if I would have known that Osama was Râul's secret lover I would've been more tactful with my response. I know it must be hard to lose someone you love so much.

Shit happens...we all have to go through it and it doesn't get any easier no matter how many times it happens.

My thoughts are with you Râul.

If it makes you feel any better America won't forget this day for a very long time.

[Monochrome]

This thread, like Bin Laden's life.. will not end well.

Still, I think the Navy SEAL who fired the killing shot must have gained quite a bit of EXP. from taking out that boss.

*LEVEL UP*

LEVEL 147

+1 ATP

+1 DFP

+2 ATA

+3 EVP

[Lugia2126]

Hi! Im New Here :) Now For The Topic . Thats A Yehey! For People :)))))))

[FEI LEE]

Edit- Betch it'll be a little harder to bash Obama now.

Yeah never mind his how once he was elected he did a complete 180 and did the opposite of what he promised on multiple subjects.


"burial at sea"? Was it to hard to provide a picture? I need more than words honestly.

[ChronoTrigga]

I really hope we can all think a lot deeper about the meaning of "justice" and not be tricked for a second that the death of Osama Bin Laden is any kind of meaningful justice for the 3,000 families of 9/11 and the more than 19,000 Afghanis, 900,000 iraqis, and 5,500 US troops who have been killed in the war on terrorism.

But the only way to make this world a better place is to dispel the illusions that this world is a bad place to begin with. I think it's pretty damn good considering the particles we're made up of could be the ones from the other 99% of space where life doesn't exist. XD. That's just me though.

[Wayu]

Even though we can all sugarcoat our words and intentions, in the end it still comes down to an eye for an eye, a tooth for a tooth, evil for evil.

At least, that's how reality decides to kick us in the face. What we do from that point on is up to the individual.

-Wayu

[RenzokukenZ]

Babylonian law. No matter how you look at it, for whatever cause, be it revenge or justice, it will always be Babylonian law.

[watashiwa]

The fact that he was buried so fast doesn't necessarily mean he wasn't killed and it's a lie. It could be, well, that maybe they didn't just kill him... maybe they tortured him a bit before killing him... perhaps his body is a mangled mess and they didn't want to show that.

Doesn't matter to me, though. I'm glad he's dead but, yeah, gotta be on watch for retaliation.

[Gunslinger-08]

...and the world had one less madman to deal with.

[RenzokukenZ]

...and the world had one less madman to deal with.

Only to eventually be replaced by 5 more.

[GreenArcher]

Thousands of people were killed and Osama Bin Laden took credit for that.



I really hope we can all think a lot deeper about the meaning of "justice" and not be tricked for a second that the death of Osama Bin Laden is any kind of meaningful justice for the 3,000 families of 9/11 and the more than 19,000 Afghanis, 900,000 iraqis, and 5,500 US troops who have been killed in the war on terrorism.



Just pointing out to you that our war on terror has taken far more than thousands of lives.

[MetaZedlen]

Only to eventually be replaced by 5 more.

I've said this many times now:

Let those that have suffered from this piece of scum have their moment of peace in their mind before it all goes to shit again.

[Hatrix]

I belive he's dead, but I don't belive they dumped his body in the ocean

[Kyrith_Ranger_Pso]

why is everyone so happy about death? it's not like he was doing much anymore, he was just hiding, why are we so happy to see one more man die?

[Powder Keg]

See, the PSN hacker made himself useful.

[SPOILER-BOX]http://i72.photobucket.com/albums/i194/arabian_disco/229643_10150183121586962_668146961_7465508_2884529 _n.jpg[/SPOILER-BOX]

[Gunslinger-08]

why is everyone so happy about death? it's not like he was doing much anymore, he was just hiding, why are we so happy to see one more man die?

The man made himself the enemy of the US and everything it stood for. His death wasn't just one of some honest, hard working man. He was a madman who ordered and planned attacks that killed thousands and thousands of people of different races and religious beliefs. People are happy to see him die because he's been the face of terrorism, hatred and extremism for a great deal of people both within the U.S. and without.

He was the closest thing to a modern day Hitler, and while killing him was indeed personal for some, it was also practical.

[Neo Flint]

My mother believes that some of his comrades are going to avenge his death...

I know this guy is a psychotic terrorist but I personally find it hard to celebrate his death. After all, it won't stop terrorism in general.

[TierrenZX]

While im glad he's dead, you won't catch me dancing in the streets like that. We got rid of Usama bin Laden, not Al Qaeda. What happens after only time will tell.

Remember Bush's "Mission Accomplished"? Yeeeeeah....

I am also curious as to how Pakistan claims to not have realized that bin Laden was chilling in their area. I really want to see how they will explain that.

While there will be thousands of reports abound in the upcoming weeks, I expect the economy and gas prices will rear their ugly heads again.

Hopefully, soon we can bring the soldiers home. If they want to kill each other over there, then let them. They don't need a world police or any other foreign influence interfering. Besides, little by little across the Middle East, all those conflicts in Egypt, Libya and other areas are showing that democracy is possible there. I personally believed that if a country wants a democracy, then its up to them to fight for it. At least the majority of them anyways...

[ShinMaruku]

http://www.joeydevilla.com/wordpress/wp-content/uploads/2011/05/sorry-it-took-so-long.jpg

[Retehi]

There's people that feel bad for him being killed. Seriously, you're fucking retarded.

Glad he's dead.

[washuguy]

R.I.P. to the greatest hide and seeker in all of history... Osama Bin Laden (2001-2011) No but seriously, this is a JOKE. I could care less if Osama died, him being dead doesn't change a thing. I keep hearing people talk about closure, closure. But I could care less if they killed him or not, it doesn't change the fact that the economy is bad, it doesn't bring the 9-11 victims back or the WTC, politicians are still playing dirty, homeless people are still in the nations capital, and kids are still going to school hungry, and the banks are corrupt... You get what i'm saying? Are we gonna get out of the middle east and bring the troops home? Cause that's what I'm waiting on, now there's NO reason to be over there at all. AND we're supposed to be a nation focused on justice right? Rather than kill the man why not bring him here for a fair trail eh? Nothing like that, they kill him on the spot and throw him into the sea before presenting the body? WHAT IS THIS? Is THIS what the USA is about? If so i'm disappointed, we celebrate the death of a man as if HIS death will bring some radical change... Sad.

[GCoffee]

There's people that feel bad for him being killed. Seriously, you're fucking retarded.

There are people that feel bad about the way he was killed. Seriously, you're missing the point.

[N.i.r.v.a.n.a.]

"Decapitating the head of the snake ... will have important reverberations throughout the area and the al Qaeda network in that area. This is something that we've been after for 15 years," - Deputy National Security Advisor for Homeland Security and Counterterrorism

Listen, its rather apparent and obvious that al-Qaeda will not go down without harsh and dangerous reprisals in the years if not decades to come.

He's dead now, so it would make sense if Ayman al-Sawahiri who is second in command to take over and reunite, however I honestly belive its not gonna be that easy for them.

The backbone of al-Qaeda is destroyed and its believed as a direct result of his death, is expected to cripple the horible al-Qaeda and a huge blow to all al-Qaeda sympathisers and supporters who listened and obeyed his leadership.

I'm not saying that its gonna happen, and there will always be enemies to wish the United States of America and other countries out there extreme harm and death, but as just with bin laden, there is that chance that this very well could signify the ripple effect and eventually the fall or severely relegated status and power of al-Qaeda


There's people that feel bad for him being killed. Seriously, you're fucking retarded.

Glad he's dead.

I betcha there is a ass load of people right now mourning his death and are saddened by it obviously, but yeah, i know what you mean. :-?

[washuguy]

Dude, he made a good point. Rights are rights, and either they apply to everyone (the best and the worst of us), or they apply to no-one. At which point they become a bunch of quaint, as Carlin put it, temporary privileges which can be revoked whenever they become inconvenient to the powers that be. Which is exactly what they've proven to be time and time again, as people hold those principles they enshrine as sacred, yet vastly underestimate the full weight of upholding those principles. Especially in moments of fear and uncertainty.

As Thomas Paine put it; "He that would make his own liberty secure, must guard even his enemy from oppression; for if he violates this duty, he establishes a precedent that will reach to himself."

Whether or not he deserved to die for his role in the atrocities his organization committed, that's something that can be debated - and I think I'm with the majority of not just the US, but the worldwide majority in this, that yes he did deserve what he got. However, that does not nullify his human rights - and to suggest such is the case is to endorse evil as a remedy to evil for the sake of getting your rocks off on some righteous justice.


And really, the best counter-argument you have to his point is "Shut the fuck up"?

Amen bruh... The sun shines on the just and the unjust. If the best man in the world and an evil person stepped outside on a rainy day, the rains gonna hit both of us. True justice is a human right, not just for some. That man, from what I hear, didn't even put up a fight. WHY SHOOT HIM? That's unnecessary blood. You bring him here for a fair trail and show the world that the USA isn't a place of pure evil and jerks, and display what we're about... Instead, we kill him. People might think I'm crazy now, but if it can happen to Osama it can happen to any one of us here... An injustice in one place is an injustice everywhere right? Think about it guys...

[Chukie sue]

Amen bruh... The sun shines on the just and the unjust. If the best man in the world and an evil person stepped outside on a rainy day, the rains gonna hit both of us. True justice is a human right, not just for some. That man, from what I hear, didn't even put up a fight. WHY SHOOT HIM? That's unnecessary blood. You bring him here for a fair trail and show the world that the USA isn't a place of pure evil and jerks, and display what we're about... Instead, we kill him. People might think I'm crazy now, but if it can happen to Osama it can happen to any one of us here... An injustice in one place is an injustice everywhere right? Think about it guys...

From a Christian perspective, I think his death can be justified.

It is God's glory to practice justice. You don't have to be very familiar with the Bible to know of just a few examples where God's justice expressed itself through killing. The great flood, Sodom and Gomorrah, et cetera. Romans 13:1 states Let everyone be subject to the governing authorities, for there is no authority except that which God has established. NIV. For the one in authority is God’s servant for your good. But if you do wrong, be afraid, for rulers do not bear the sword for no reason. They are God’s servants, agents of wrath to bring punishment on the wrongdoer. - Rm 13:4 NIV.

With the value of life in God's eye being as high as it is, it seems to me that killing a guilty man (not murder, mind you) is certainly justified when it defends further innocent lives from being taken. Christians should mourn the death of a sinful man, praise God for executing His righteous justice, and thank God for generously giving him 54 years to accept forgiveness... $.02

...That was an incredibly simple/short point, but it'll have to do for now.

Psalm 58:


1Do you indeed speak righteousness, O gods?
Do you judge uprightly, O sons of men?
2No, in heart you work unrighteousness;
On earth you weigh out the violence of your hands.
3The wicked are estranged from the womb;
These who speak lies go astray from birth.
4They have venom like the venom of a serpent;
Like a deaf cobra that stops up its ear,
5So that it does not hear the voice of charmers,
Or a skillful caster of spells.
6O God, shatter their teeth in their mouth;
Break out the fangs of the young lions, O LORD.
7Let them flow away like water that runs off;
When he aims his arrows, let them be as headless shafts.
8Let them be as a snail which melts away as it goes along,
Like the miscarriages of a woman which never see the sun.
9Before your pots can feel the fire of thorns
He will sweep them away with a whirlwind, the green and the burning alike.
10The righteous will rejoice when he sees the vengeance;
He will wash his feet in the blood of the wicked.
11And men will say, "Surely there is a reward for the righteous;

In all the imprecatory psalms, the psalmist is motivated by seeing God's justice served. David models this himself in other psalms that call for the destruction of his enemies. In Psalm 31 David writes "In your righteousness deliver me!" and in Psalm 109 he writes , "They have also surrounded me with words of hatred, And fought against me without cause. In return for my love they act as my accusers; But I am in prayer." He also modeled this both when Saul pursued him unjustly and when Absalom usurped his throne. Asking God that justice be done is not the same thing as carrying out an individual vendetta. Such distinctions are important.

Note the end of Psalm 58 where David writes, "The righteous will rejoice when he sees the vengeance; He will wash his feet in the blood of the wicked. And men will say, ‘Surely there is a reward for the righteous; Surely there is a God who judges on earth!'" God's divine justice is served when evil doers are given their just due. The righteous can point to such actions and know that God will ultimately be a righteous judge and provide justice for His righteous ones. Unbelievers are given a witness of God's righteousness. And because Romans 13 claims that governing authorities can serve as God's servants, meting out His justice, we can be thankful that the action was done in an orderly way--not by wiping out entire sections of a foreign country, but through a surgical strike that respected those other people made in the image of God in Abbottabad. Reuters even reports that once dead, the U.S. handled his body in accord with Islamic customs.

Lenny Esposito, http://apologetics-notes.comereason.org/

[washuguy]

From a Christian perspective, I think his death can be justified.

It is God's glory to practice justice. You don't have to be very familiar with the Bible to know of just a few examples where God's justice expressed itself through killing. The great flood, Sodom and Gomorrah, et cetera. Romans 13:1 states Let everyone be subject to the governing authorities, for there is no authority except that which God has established. NIV. For the one in authority is God’s servant for your good. But if you do wrong, be afraid, for rulers do not bear the sword for no reason. They are God’s servants, agents of wrath to bring punishment on the wrongdoer. - Rm 13:4 NIV.

With the value of life in God's eye being as high as it is, it seems to me that killing a guilty man (not murder, mind you) is certainly justified when it defends further innocent lives from being taken. Christians should mourn the death of a sinful man, praise God for executing His righteous justice, and thank God for generously giving him 54 years to accept forgiveness... $.02

...That was an incredibly simple/short point, but it'll have to do for now.

Psalm 58:


1Do you indeed speak righteousness, O gods?
Do you judge uprightly, O sons of men?
2No, in heart you work unrighteousness;
On earth you weigh out the violence of your hands.
3The wicked are estranged from the womb;
These who speak lies go astray from birth.
4They have venom like the venom of a serpent;
Like a deaf cobra that stops up its ear,
5So that it does not hear the voice of charmers,
Or a skillful caster of spells.
6O God, shatter their teeth in their mouth;
Break out the fangs of the young lions, O LORD.
7Let them flow away like water that runs off;
When he aims his arrows, let them be as headless shafts.
8Let them be as a snail which melts away as it goes along,
Like the miscarriages of a woman which never see the sun.
9Before your pots can feel the fire of thorns
He will sweep them away with a whirlwind, the green and the burning alike.
10The righteous will rejoice when he sees the vengeance;
He will wash his feet in the blood of the wicked.
11And men will say, "Surely there is a reward for the righteous;

In all the imprecatory psalms, the psalmist is motivated by seeing God's justice served. David models this himself in other psalms that call for the destruction of his enemies. In Psalm 31 David writes "In your righteousness deliver me!" and in Psalm 109 he writes , "They have also surrounded me with words of hatred, And fought against me without cause. In return for my love they act as my accusers; But I am in prayer." He also modeled this both when Saul pursued him unjustly and when Absalom usurped his throne. Asking God that justice be done is not the same thing as carrying out an individual vendetta. Such distinctions are important.

Note the end of Psalm 58 where David writes, "The righteous will rejoice when he sees the vengeance; He will wash his feet in the blood of the wicked. And men will say, ‘Surely there is a reward for the righteous; Surely there is a God who judges on earth!'" God's divine justice is served when evil doers are given their just due. The righteous can point to such actions and know that God will ultimately be a righteous judge and provide justice for His righteous ones. Unbelievers are given a witness of God's righteousness. And because Romans 13 claims that governing authorities can serve as God's servants, meting out His justice, we can be thankful that the action was done in an orderly way--not by wiping out entire sections of a foreign country, but through a surgical strike that respected those other people made in the image of God in Abbottabad. Reuters even reports that once dead, the U.S. handled his body in accord with Islamic customs.

Lenny Esposito, http://apologetics-notes.comereason.org/
Nope... God is ticked off... That wasn't righteous judgment for Bin Laden at all. God didn't destroy him, humans did. We're not supposed to repay evil for evil. Giving people what they deserve is Gods job, not ours. What we did was murder. It wasn't self defense, it wasn't even capital punishment... It was wrong. If we brought him here it would've been different, but killing him on the spot? SMH... Not good at all. We're to pray for our enemies, David was in a time BEFORE the COMMAND to pray for the enemy was given. And David was expressing how God treats the wicked and passes righteous judgment on people that do evil. God is not pleased... And from what i heard That translation of Romans 13 is a mistranslation. I goes something like this, paraphrasing, NOONE has any authority, unless they are ruling as fair and just as God.

[GCoffee]

The Bible is just an invention of man, aswell. Does not matter, though. I am not complaining from a moralistic point of view.

We invented these rules and we pledged to live by them. They are our protection and our safetyguard, because they are always in effect. However, whenever it is more comfortable for us we pretend they do not exist, just to justify our else-ill deeds. This hyprocacy is sad, but that is how the world goes. I just wish we were better actors, at least.

[BizznessOnly]

Government conspiracies brother.

[Wayu]

Bringing religion into this = bad idea. Someone else could easily bring Islam into this and throw the topic to hell and back.

Not that I'm against religion or anything.

-Wayu

[Chukie sue]

God didn't destroy him, humans did. "Let everyone be subject to the governing authorities, for there is no authority except that which God has established." "...agents of wrath to bring punishment on the wrongdoer." Did bin Laden do wrong?

We're not supposed to repay evil for evil. Certainly not, and I don't believe (nor, I would argue, does the bible) this was evil.

Giving people what they deserve is Gods job, not ours. See above verses.

We're to pray for our enemies And we, I, did. For God to preserve His just status evil must be punished accordingly. This is the strongest theistic argument (imo) for Hell's existence, actually. Given bin Laden's fallen nature, God would be justified in taking his life before a natural death anyway.

Just my thought. You're welcome to disagree, and we'll probably have to leave it at that.



Bringing religion into this = bad idea. Someone else could easily bring Islam into this and throw the topic to hell and back.

Not that I'm against religion or anything.

-Wayu

I'd actually quite like to hear the Muslim perspective on this topic.

[Corey Blue]

66 years ago Hilter death is confirmed on May 1 and Osama's on May the 2nd,yeah it feel's like everything is happening on a time line.I got a feeling something big gonna happen soon.

[Randomness]

Bringing religion into this = bad idea. Someone else could easily bring Islam into this and throw the topic to hell and back.

Not that I'm against religion or anything.

-Wayu

Islam basically states that any Muslim who kills another Muslim (outside of judicial processes, anyways) is damned for eternity. So he had it coming from the Islamic side anyways, since I don't recall anyone ever arguing God/Allah/YHWH splits hairs between killing and ordering killed. (This being the biggest thing I remember from that world religions course -that "Islamic" radicals are damned by the very faith they profess to act in the name of)

[KodiaX987]

Though if we took every sacred text at face value, everyone would be simultaneously going to Heaven and Hell.

Yeehaw, Shrödinger's humans!

[Randomness]

Though if we took every sacred text at face value, everyone would be simultaneously going to Heaven and Hell.

Yeehaw, Schrödinger's humans!

Huh. You took the time to insert the actual letter instead of using the oe alternative. That's interesting. (More so because I'm pretty certain your computer isn't German)

That aside, that would be interesting. Hopefully nobody looks.

[FEI LEE]

66 years ago Hilter death is confirmed on May 1 and Osama's on May the 2nd,yeah it feel's like everything is happening on a time line.I got a feeling something big gonna happen soon.

Wasn't it official on the first? That would make it the same day along with May 1, 2003 invasion of Iraq.

But, you know...it's just a coincidence :-?

[Randomness]

Wasn't it official on the first? That would make it the same day along with May 1, 2003 invasion of Iraq.

But, you know...it's just a coincidence :-?

You can fudge dates a day or so with time zones anyways to support silly conspiracy theories.

[FEI LEE]

Did I say I support it?

[KodiaX987]

Huh. You took the time to insert the actual letter instead of using the oe alternative. That's interesting. (More so because I'm pretty certain your computer isn't German).

It's Shift + clösing bracket ön a French keyböard.

[Randomness]

Did I say I support it?

Oops, silly me. I meant to quote the same post you quoted.


It's Shift + clösing bracket ön a French keyböard.

Ah. I was wondering, since I don't believe French uses that character (On a side note, you could make a weak argument that English uses 27 letters due to various things "borrowed" from French... and then almost always mispelled :p) . I know a shortcut for Office for it from when I took German in high school, but it doesn't work anywhere else.

[ChronoTrigga]

The introduction of religion to this thread made me vomit in my mouth a little.

[AOI_Tifa_Lockhart]

I think Americans rely far too heavily on the symbolism of Osama Bin Laden, considering him the face of terrorism, one of the main reasons Afghanistan was invaded, and the kingpin for this whole "war on terror" fiasco. The fact America created such an evil image and media frenzy about him would make any person re-arrange their leadership hierarchy thus, in the eventuality you get caught/killed .then you would have replacements step in and the overall effect of one man being lost would be negligable.

This won't change people's views on America, infact I think it'd incense these "terrorists" more that the US have prooven their very whimsical point. I'd like to see the overall costs of the Afghan war, the overall benefits, and just how their current pointless war weighs up against the Soviets pointless war in the 80's in which the American's funded Al-Qaeda to fight off the Russians. I think the American ethos roughly translates to "All the gear but no idea."

If people would just read a history book maybe we could stop such idiotic mistakes from happening time and time again. I notice everyone's now praising Obama, the indecisive president because some totally unrelated soldier in Pakistan killed Bin Laden. How about all the war mongering from George Bush? Doesn't even get a mention seeing as Obama took up the reigns?

All in all this is just another media orgy, giving the reporters something to mercilessly butcher headlines with for a week or so. I can't see any benefit, I think it'll just be a catalyst to the general shit storm the US have created in Iraq and Afghanistan. But America is drowning in it's patriotism, it's literally sickening sight to see how idiotic their pipe dreams of their country are. People who still regularly quote the founding documents and amendments as their rights, relating to a society several centuries later is just surreal. Then again people relying on a 2000 year old book to govern the way you live and what happens after death is equally believable amongst billions....so I guess it's not surprising that the idiots are winning

But Al-Qaeda and other extremist groups are merely mimicking our behaviour. We make out it's an outrage, it's just difference of opnion. They want an Islamic Crusade, kill the infidels and such like. Christians have acted just as idiotically throughout history too, so us calling it an outrage is just hypocrticial. But as with most things, people like facts, so long as they can pick and choose them to suit their own arguement :P

Tifa

[KodiaX987]

Ah. I was wondering, since I don't believe French uses that character (On a side note, you could make a weak argument that English uses 27 letters due to various things "borrowed" from French... and then almost always mispelled :p) . I know a shortcut for Office for it from when I took German in high school, but it doesn't work anywhere else.

The word Noël (Christmas) is perhaps the most widely used function of the trema double-dot. Otherwise I have a hard time coming up with a top-of-my-head common word that uses it.

[FEI LEE]

You put a few of my thoughts into words Tifa. I'm to lazy.

[Randomness]

I think Americans rely far too heavily on the symbolism of Osama Bin Laden, considering him the face of terrorism, one of the main reasons Afghanistan was invaded, and the kingpin for this whole "war on terror" fiasco. The fact America created such an evil image and media frenzy about him would make any person re-arrange their leadership hierarchy thus, in the eventuality you get caught/killed .then you would have replacements step in and the overall effect of one man being lost would be negligable.

This won't change people's views on America, infact I think it'd incense these "terrorists" more that the US have prooven their very whimsical point. I'd like to see the overall costs of the Afghan war, the overall benefits, and just how their current pointless war weighs up against the Soviets pointless war in the 80's in which the American's funded Al-Qaeda to fight off the Russians. I think the American ethos roughly translates to "All the gear but no idea."

If people would just read a history book maybe we could stop such idiotic mistakes from happening time and time again. I notice everyone's now praising Obama, the indecisive president because some totally unrelated soldier in Pakistan killed Bin Laden. How about all the war mongering from George Bush? Doesn't even get a mention seeing as Obama took up the reigns?

All in all this is just another media orgy, giving the reporters something to mercilessly butcher headlines with for a week or so. I can't see any benefit, I think it'll just be a catalyst to the general shit storm the US have created in Iraq and Afghanistan. But America is drowning in it's patriotism, it's literally sickening sight to see how idiotic their pipe dreams of their country are. People who still regularly quote the founding documents and amendments as their rights, relating to a society several centuries later is just surreal. Then again people relying on a 2000 year old book to govern the way you live and what happens after death is equally believable amongst billions....so I guess it's not surprising that the idiots are winning

But Al-Qaeda and other extremist groups are merely mimicking our behaviour. We make out it's an outrage, it's just difference of opnion. They want an Islamic Crusade, kill the infidels and such like. Christians have acted just as idiotically throughout history too, so us calling it an outrage is just hypocrticial. But as with most things, people like facts, so long as they can pick and choose them to suit their own arguement :P

Tifa

Couple of points.

First, your last paragraphs equates Americans=Roman Catholic Church. That's an absurd analogy. (That is in fact how it reads, regardless of your intent, since your use of "us" grammatically links to "Christians" while ranting about American actions. And the Crusades were specifically the Vatican's decisions)

Second, you stated "some totally unrelated soldier in Pakistan". First, soldier is a poor word choice when the people in question - the only US troops in Pakistan other than embassy guards (Do we have an embassy there?) - are Navy SEALs. The word "soldier" does not appropriate convey the reality, since the connotations are of a random grunt. Second, how are they unrelated to Obama? He is the commander-in-chief, so they are in fact his subordinates. Further, he personally ordered the attack. I would argue there is significant relation here.

Thirdly, you called Obama "indecisive". Indecisive does not generally mesh with choosing risk. I would cite health care and "Don't ask, don't tell" as counterexamples, since neither case can be called politically safe - especially when the opposition party is emphasizing opposition every chance they get.

Continuing on, I'm just going to pluck this bit out first:


But America is drowning in it's patriotism, it's literally sickening sight to see how idiotic their pipe dreams of their country are. People who still regularly quote the founding documents and amendments as their rights, relating to a society several centuries later is just surreal.

Frankly, if there was a point we were drowning in patriotism recently, it would be around the time nobody questioned Bush going into Afghanistan and Iraq. I believe he invoked 9/11 in both cases. (In Iraq's case, after the WMD thing fizzled). If anything, we're drowning in partisan posturing for the next election right now. The last election was a scant six months ago, and the current Congress has only just started its fifth. And we've already got "election news". I for one would like to not have to listen to all these damned pundits and politicians prattle about the next election more than just one month in four!

tl;dr: If you skipped to this, go back and read the whole thing, dammit. Trying to condense complicated issues into sound bites just makes a mockery of civil discourse.

[Sinue_v2]

Couple of points. *Snip*

I'm surprised you stopped at a couple. I don't think I could have if I started into it. There is so much wrong and fail in that post, I just wrote it off as some kind of hipster "ironic troll" angle he was playing at.

[Ark22]

Can we just make this a National holiday and get over it?

[joshboyd1209]

Can we just make this a National holiday and get over it?
Nope. I want to pull his body out of the deep blue brine and use it for target practice.

[Randomness]

Can we just make this a National holiday and get over it?

The latter part, yes. The former, no. Ignore him, completely and utterly, now that he's dead. If you think about it, that's the most insulting thing we could do to him. (And actually, terrorists in general. The correct response is to publicly ignore them. If you HAVE to improve security, do it quietly, and don't make a fuss)