What genre do you think Phantasy Star Prime should be?

[CaptainPlanet]

Hey all, CP here! It's been a long year in pre-production so far and Phantasy Star Prime is looking as grand and majestic a project as ever! We've run into some pretty daunting roadblocks in the past year, some of which would be enough to drive most people give up on such a massive, intimidating project, but our passion and dedication is unwavering and we have worked around every obstacle that has gotten in our way. If there is one project that we are absolutely determined to complete, it's Phantasy Star Prime!

That being said, I have started this poll to see what the public opinion is as far as what they feel Phantasy Star Prime should look like. I won't state whether or not this will affect the project as a whole, however we are interested to see the results and neither genre is out of our capability to produce. Each has its pros and cons and we want to know what you think! Comments are also greatly appreciated as it helps to voice your opinions even more! We aren't just doing this to see our passion come to fruition, we're also doing this for all of you!

[Seth Astra]

'Though I haven't really been following this, I would imagine a PS movie looking better as an anime. I just can't imagine a live-action version looking right.

EDIT: Whoops, hit the wrong button in the poll. *Facepalms*

[CaptainPlanet]

That's alright, Seth. I know what you meant. I really appreciate your input.

It is now:

Live-Action - 2
Anime - 1

[BIG OLAF]

Anime. It's a pseudo-anime-inspired game series, so it would only be fitting to be animated if it was ever turned into a movie and/or TV show.

[Kyrith_Ranger_Pso]

it must be live action, it'll be rediculously incredible either way, but seeing that trailer, you guys look awesome for the roles!

[Seth Astra]

While I don't know what your plan is for this whole thing (and don't want to read through the whole other thread to do so. Yup, I'm lazy), depending on how "phantasy" you want to make this, anime may hold certain advantages. I honestly don't know anything about budget or the quality of your special effects department, though, so I might just be saying a bunch of pointless stuff. I also lack any real knowlege of the difficulties of either. However, I don't imagine that doing special effects is the easiest thing. For example, techs, photon weapons, and any sort of hostiles would, I imagine, be quite hard to do via special effects, again, while making it look good (since I assume you want to keep to a reasonably high standard).

[CaptainPlanet]

It is written with a wide audience and newcomers to the franchise in mind. It takes a normal modern setting with average people and gradually exposes the viewer to "phantasy" as time goes on until about half way through the first movie, they are completely immersed in the aspect of Phantasy Star. This is a transition that is written to make sense with the story, so it could technically go either way at this point and still make sense from an artistic standpoint, no matter what the art style was.

There are pros and cons to both, however. With live action, we are likely to expose a larger audience to the material as well as have it be a live-action video game-based movie that actually had extensive research done with the source material on a minute scale, making sure every last detail is perfect (unlike other video game movies). The sense of reward on the developers' side would be much more monumental as well, although the workload is infinitely larger in comparison. On the flip side of that, Anime would be much easier to pull off and we have all the artistic freedom we want, however, there wouldn't be things like blooper reels and other little gems that a lot of movie-goers find so dear.

[Sayara]

Live Action would make it very Campy and usually garbage if without the properly mechanics to do so.

[Justyn_Darkcrest]

Either way, I'm going to watch this. When I first heard you were doing this I was pretty skeptical, so I went back through your posts and found you were actually doing a lot of research, trying to please everyone from the most die hard fans to the people who don't know anything about the series.

On to my vote: I'd prefer it to stay live action, since the anime video game based movies tend to only be viewed by the hardcore fans, and from what I've seen of what you've put together so far, it looks really good as live action.

[arktheshadow]

In my opinion, both. Each has their own redeeming and damning qualities. Just make sure to have both "done right." lol

[MESeele]

By anime, do you mean classically animated? Or just how you present the live-action? (the latter is assuming genre =/= medium here)

The prior assumes you have a grasp on the staggering amount of work that would be involved, not to mention the vast amount of resources that would be consumed in even a 5 minute short. Neverminding things like skill level and knowledge of the craft. It's not exactly something you can just pick up without prior experience and expect to produce something above mediocrity in level. To be honest, your last post makes me believe that you're underestimating what it takes for decent animation. Not even good animation. Just decent.

I've seen a lot of "hey! looks you guys! I can move stuff on a page!", yes I suppose it would still fall under the broad term of 'animation', but no. Just no. I only mention this because by your other thread, you all seem to be going about this quite seriously. I'd hate for you to switch over and end up stuck in a rut. I want to see you guys succeed :D . If you're considering animating with flash or toonboom, the prior is crap and heavily limited, and the latter still requires you to know what you're doing. Both requires understanding of proper rigging and library conception. Live action and Animation are two very different mediums.


Annnd, I'm not sure how you'd go about the latter lol, though acting choices and atmosphere would most certainly change.

Anyway, to sum up and actually answer you question ^^;, in a perfect world where you have everything you need, I believe an animation would be far more suitable. Its only limit is your own imagination and ability. Live action has limits based on what people are capable of, assuming you aren't masters with various 3d softwares as well. However, seeing what you have accomplished so far, I believe Live-action is the best course of action.

[NoiseHERO]

Wait...

Musical isn't an option?

I THINK IT SHOULD BE LIKE PULP FICTION WITH LOTS OF CHARACTERS AND SPLIT CONNECTED STORIES-No! I have to stop typing in caps...

Because come on...Phantasy Star + Direct main characters = boring...

It'd be easier to keep interesting and non-annoying with multiple short stories or people adventures. Sure it'd be harder to include the whole "Save the entire world" cliche but who cares that'd be cliche.

edit: That is, whether it was an anime OR live action of course. without having about too many of the flaws both would carry, everything becomes easy!

Though I dunno how your phantasy star prime thing works...

[StormBlade]

Jeez Mike.

Why not just make it live action (like we've been preparing for) by have the anime influences?

Example: Neon's fighting with a random henchman could be rather basic at first, but as the series progresses, the effects of the the weaponry at his disposal allows him to fight in a very Matrix/Anime-esque way.

Just my two cents. I think we're on the prefect track to success, don't second guess yourself or it's already over.


Quick Edit: And to be more specific, think Suckerpunch. It was HEAVILY influenced by anime and fantasy, why not just borrow some aspects of that presentation and apply it to our "modern sci-fi"?

[MESeele]

Because come on...Phantasy Star + Direct main characters = boring...

It'd be easier to keep interesting and non-annoying with multiple short stories or people adventures. Sure it'd be harder to include the whole "Save the entire world" cliche but who cares that'd be cliche.

That's a neat idea. Sort of like Animatrix? Outside of the first movie, the short stories faired the best by far.


I think we're on the prefect track to success, don't second guess yourself or it's already over.

Agreed. Better ideas and greater ambition will always ensue. Decisiveness is key.

[NoiseHERO]

That's a neat idea. Sort of like Animatrix? Outside of the first movie, the short stories faired the best by far.

Yeah, that's a good example.

If Phantasy Star got any kind of film or animation I think something like that covering multiple characters and situations would work well with it's vast futuristic/multiple worlds.

Of course knowing SEGA, they'd go straight to a crappy plot and generic fanservice. With an unoriginal before mentioned save the world or save your friends from going emo and save the world in the process story.

Sadly I think otaku's in japan eat that stuff up...which is why nothing recent in japan ever survives outside of japan...because all their money comes from crazed fans who are more brain dead than justin beiber fangirls. Especially when it comes to moe...

[MESeele]

@Michaeru: As much as I'd love to lambast mundane generic anime and talk about why their audience seems to be willing to continually devour it with you (and I would really like to), I also don't want to inadvertently hijack this thread :sleepy:.


@CaptainPlanet: I checked some of your most recent posts regarding the project. Would I be assuming right that if you ended up switching to an animation, it would be done entirely in 3d then?

What I want to do is scream out "Anime in 3D? Blasphemy!" in cartoonish fashion, but I won't :wink:. Rather, I'll mention one reason why they don't, and something to watch out for should you choose to go that route. Classical animation can do expressions without problem, since they are inherently stylized. 3d on the other hand, risks falling into the dreaded Uncanny Valley (http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/UncannyValley) :barf:, examples of the current extremes being the likes of polar express, beowulf, and that old final fantasy movie. Even partially styilized shows like A Chistmas Carol (Jim Carrey ver.) and the Shrek movies invoke it at times.

This occurs in all stages of skill, even high budget features. One big instance being facial cues. There are many that people subconsciously pick up on, but do not actively see. These cues don't make it into the animation, and horror ensues. Mocap also brings this out, given that characters done this way end up floaty. Same thing with rotoscoping.

Hmmm, to sum up, I suppose I'm thinking that you may end up over your head lol, and am trying to convince you that continuing with live action is the way to go. Of course, this is from assuming from your other recent posts that you may think animation is a simple endeavor and an easier alternative. You may already be aware of all of this. You may already have lots of experience with this. I suppose this is just me relaying a cautionary tale, but I am trying to help you in making this integral decision.

[CaptainPlanet]

*sigh*

I was really trying to avoid derailing this thread by NOT having to give away my big surprise/idea, but this seems to have lead to some controversy and misunderstandings as far as the current status on the project. I should have run the plan, in detail, by my associates before I dropped such a cryptic bomb like this on all of you, but to break the controversy, I did have something very specific and special in mind. I didn't just make my decision willy-nilly either, I pondered every nook and cranny of the idea over the course of nearly a week.

First of all, to clear things up (and anime fans, you may want to keep reading), the live-action iteration of Phantasy Star Prime IS going to be made. I never had a doubt in my mind about it from day one. I did, however, want to do something extra special with the DVD for all of you who have been following us since the film's conception early last year.

The original plan was to have two DVDs for each movie, one with the film itself, and one with bonus features such as deleted scenes, blooper reels, filmographies, etc. What I really wanted to do, but until recently felt unable to achieve, was to have the box contain three DVDs, the third being a Japanese anime-style version of its live-action counterpart. I had long given up on that dream because three live-action movies were already a daunting task and an anime version of the films just seemed unrealistically beyond our capability to produce within a reasonable timeframe.

Recently however, I have been toying with the idea on my own again, but never really took it seriously for obvious reasons. That being said, someone once told me, "No matter how outlandish a dream may be, a it's still YOUR dream, and if you want it bad enough, you will find a way to succeed." Unbeknownst to my associates until just now, I have secretly begun to assemble an animation team. Call it a personal project if you will. Whether or not the idea comes to fruition ultimately depends on the combined level of skill I am able to recruit.

Still, that would ultimately lead to another problem. Considering I have always been in charge of all our effects and animation, that would inevitably put a massive burden on me as far as compositing the animation in addition to working with the live-action footage as well. This is where my double-body work structure comes into play. The Prime project would consist of two work silos: Done Right Core, and the animation team. Done Right Core, aka everyone you know who has been working on Prime up-to-date, would not be shifting focus. We will be focusing entirely on the live-action film just as we always have. Meanwhile, my Production Assistant and I will be collaborating with each other, passing on footage and information as needed, acting as the bracket between the two silos. Aside from passing the script and some footage along to the animators, as well as many visual guides and written direction on how certain things should look or behave, I would assume no role in the animation itself.

As far as the time, resources, and skills required for such a task, I am establishing a knowledge pool among the animation team so that they can all share skills and information, not only so they can all be on the same page, but also so that everyone further understands how the craft works and how to operate more as a unit. Where my Production Assistant currently does not have anything to do right now other than to keep track of our bi-weekly casting and rehearsals, as well as maintaining our event calendar, she has been itching to be a more active part of the group. Now she will have her chance. As the team is gradually assembling, she will help them do research on the craft as a whole, find out what they need, what the animators need to know, compile the information for them to read over, as well as informing me of any hiccups in the road... let's just say she'll have plenty of team-oriented experience with Done Right (luckily she's been doing this kind of thing for years).

Anyway, as I stated before, my PA and I will be swapping footage between Done Right Core and the animation team so that as we work on the live-action film, they can work on the anime version. If successful, and if really talented artists continue to join our ranks, this should be a really great collector's box set by the time it's done.

This is the biggest my dream for this project has ever been (besides a Hollywood remake, that is). Contrary to popular belief, it is not new. This is my personal day-one fantasy just beginning to see the (possible) light of reality. If I did not think this was worth it, I would not have even bothered. Even if nobody wanted it, I would still want to be able to say that we were able to pull off such a grand-scale project as newcomers to the craft. If it were to fail and the animated version didn't happen, then at least we would still have the live-action version, which I am convinced will be enough to win over most, if not all the skeptics once they see what kind of tone this project is taking on. At least we could say that we tried and failed rather than to have never tried at all.

Now that I have revealed my "master plan", I welcome thoughts.

[CaptainPlanet]

Wait...
I THINK IT SHOULD BE LIKE PULP FICTION WITH LOTS OF CHARACTERS AND SPLIT CONNECTED STORIES-No! I have to stop typing in caps...

Because come on...Phantasy Star + Direct main characters = boring...

It'd be easier to keep interesting and non-annoying with multiple short stories or people adventures. Sure it'd be harder to include the whole "Save the entire world" cliche but who cares that'd be cliche.

Don't worry, I won't spoil anything, but I can assure you that there will be quite a few multiple stories going on all at once, each of which drives the overall plot in its own unique way. The trilogy's plot is carefully constructed so that without any of these stories, the plot would fall apart. Everyone's plot needs everyone else's plot for the goal of the story to happen.

[MESeele]

Damn. Well I've been put in my place :lol:.

That said, I eagerly anticipate what you have planned, and hold great hope towards the animation aspect of it specifically :). The scale of this project is far more grand than I first assumed, and an underestimation of those working on it by my account. For that I apologize. I meant not to act as the skeptic, but just to make aware some things that, as it turns out, were both needless and completely unwarranted.

So this poll was not so much about the style of the original film, but a question on whether this community would be interested in an animation aspect? For that I am completely for it.

I thank you for sharing that quote as well. It's something worth remembering.


I still feel compelled to ask one question to you. The animation you are interested in. Will you do it in 3d so as to make use of the models already made for the live action, or will you be doing it classically? If your interest is in the latter, will it be old school paper flipping, or do you have a program in mind?

[CaptainPlanet]

It's quite alright, I wasn't referring to you as a skeptic, I was speaking of skeptics of live-action Phantasy Star in general. You're fine. :) I do appreciate your input, infinitely more than no input at all. Feedback from the community is very important to us, and as a result, to the flavor of this project. You were only trying to make sure we had all our bases covered and I am thankful that you cared to put that out there. It shows you have something invested in what we're doing, and no matter the context, as long as someone in this community is inviested in what we're doing, then we're succeeding.

[MESeele]

Glad to hear it. What I say tends to carry antagonistic undertones; whether I mean well or not, and the written medium does nothing at all to soften that. I reread some of my earlier posts and even I thought I sounded a bit like an ass haha.

Btw, way to dodge the big question :-P. It's understandable. I'll just have to wait and see :D.

[CaptainPlanet]

Sorry, I totally forgot to answer! lol



So this poll was not so much about the style of the original film, but a question on whether this community would be interested in an animation aspect?

Exactly



The animation you are interested in. Will you do it in 3d so as to make use of the models already made for the live action, or will you be doing it classically? If your interest is in the latter, will it be old school paper flipping, or do you have a program in mind?

The way I see it playing out in my head, I want to minimize the use of 3D models in the anime version, if not eliminate them entirely. I want to do this classic all the way. I feel it would have more of an impact than the gimmicky overuse of 3D models in certain animes nowadays, particularly the Saturday morning animes that are geared primarily towards kids (no offense to those who like those shows). I feel like in this deep, emotionally involving story, if told in classic anime form, the popping visuals of 3D models, even cell-shaded ones, would somewhat take the viewer out of that special place I'm trying to put them in.

And as of right now, I want to have separate artists working on the backgrounds/characters. Two sub-divisions if you will. I will be researching techniques with my PA and other artists and we will combine our knowledge and impliment it in the most effective way possible. As of right now, the animation team structure is planned to be composed of three sub-divisions, character artist(s), background artist(s), and compositor(s). The compositor will be the one taking the scans of these drawings and putting them all together digitally and doing all that nitty gritty digital work that... I just won't have time to do (even though I would if I did have the time). I will be too busy with the live-action version.

[CaptainPlanet]

Also, to answer your question as to what kind of software will be used, we're looking at either Toon Boom Studio 4 or Synfig.

[MESeele]

Never heard of Synfig before, though I've used Toonboom a lot. I use TVPaint myself (though that's straying into &^*@ expensive territory lol. Toonboom should work great for everything you need. You can colour and do basic editing of animation in photoshop too (I think it's CS3 or higher).

Just something to make sure of. There are multiple methods to transfer your animation over. The first two assumes hand drawn frames on paper.

Shooting with a camera setup is a great way of getting quick pose tests out (for checking timing and all that good stuff), but you'll need a proper shooting station if you even want to consider using that method for grabbing your final works. Cameras will pick up any trace shadow, and so colouring using multiply becomes far more difficult, if not impossible. You could clean up the lines on the computer, but this is a fairly arduous process without the use of a Cintiq (a draw straight on the screen tablet). Altering the contrast on the camera only serves to reduce the quality of linework in my experience, and is not a viable work around. You can increase the intensity of the light, but then light lines and coloured pencil (used for underdrawings) will not be picked up. Still, it's great for pose testing.

Scanning is an alternative. You can use an auto feeder to scan faster than it takes to shoot individual frames with a camera. Problem with that lies with the rollers, since they displace every page slightly. Not a huge problem with big/fast actions, but small or long drawn out motions will induce notable jitter - which is extremely frustrating. Fortunately, some versions of toonboom have an option called peg-hole registration. This will register frames via the peg holes in the paper, as a virtual peg bar so to speak. Not sure if Synfig has this feature (Only software with it that I know of are some of the later versions of toonboom, TVPaint, and flipbook). So if you decide to go this route, make sure that whatever software you buy has this feature.

For getting your final works scanned, taping a pegbar onto the flatbed and scanning individually yields the best quality, though it also takes a long time.

I don't use cameras unless I have to, and I don't shoot that often, so I can't give any recommendations there. However, as far as scanners go, one that shoots 12 Field paper (10.5” x 12.5”) is needed (standard paper size for television quality animation, features sometimes use up to 16 or 20 Field - but I can't even imagine what a scanner of that caliber would cost :disapprove:. Fortunately there is a relatively inexpensive one that's been on the market for a while. So that is a good alternative.

Couple links on it. (MFC-6490CW)
On Animation: modern-day-sweatbox (http://www.onanimation.com/2009/07/06/modern-day-sweatbox/)
inexpensive-large-format-scanner (http://animation-studio-stuff.blogspot.com/2009/05/inexpensive-large-format-scanner-for.html)

I hear that a new model came out recently by Brother that also fits those requirements. You could also go with more expensive scanners. The one I mentioned is not a big industrial scanner. Don't know how well it would hold up to massive use, but I do know you could afford to replace it several times over with the amount it takes to buy a big one.

Anyhow, another alternative is simply to use toonboom to draw and animate right on the screen with the program. Course, you'd need to supply tablets in this case, as animating with a mouse is a horrifying experience and not very conducive to productivity or quality of line :X (neverminding the impending wrist pain, given the amount of drawing that animation requires). Personally, I prefer the feel of physically flipping paper ^^;. But that's me. I like killing trees :-? :-P.

Anyway, hope I don't sound like I'm boasting or anything, but if you have any questions regarding animation (I'm useless for live-action sensibilities haha), let me know. I'm by no means a pro, but I'm more than happy to help out if you have a question. I want to see brilliant animation from you guys :D

[CaptainPlanet]

This information was very helpful to us and will be added to the animation team's knowledge pool. Thank you, I will be in touch. Hopefully you will stick around unlike that last guy I collaborated with though. He seems to have disappeared into thin air since March.

[MESeele]

I'll be around. I got a tip about some studios that will need people soon though, so I probably won't be on everyday, but definitely weekly. Not happy (read: Never happy :lol:) with my reel, so I'll be busy working on that. Just drop me a message whenever you like :)