wartecher hated?

[devilstar]

Curious as to why there is a lot of hate ( or atleast dislike ) for wartechers? Yeah you can't get your pa's as high, but you have pretty much every option you might need, which I think makes it a good class for solo'ing. Now keep in mind I haven't gotten into end game stuff ( only level 61 ) but from what I see I think its a decent all around type to play.

So curious as to why this type isn't recommended more, and what the reasons are.

[BlakLanner]

It is because they are seen as being a weak class. They are definitely on the low end of the power curve because they don't even get any PAs at L40 without GAS, much less 50. There is also the mistaken belief in a lot of MMO-like games where if you are second best at something, you are as good as worthless. This is made even worse by the fact that our primary skill, the fact that we are nigh-indestructible, is pretty pointless when our enemies die in seconds.

I play WT as my primary and can hold my own. However, even the best gear in the game will not let me keep up with the numbers that you see out of a lot of other classes. Fortunately, you can get away with a lot of cheaper gear, as many solid weapon choices in the types that we use come at A rank.

[devilstar]

Yeah so far I have enjoyed my wartecher. But I do see your point.

[Ishia]

People don't like it because it sucks. Second worst class in the game. Sorry bro.

[Freeze]

My primary is a Wartecher and I wouldn't have anything else. So they don't pull damage like some of the other classes, that just adds some challenge to the game. They are able to take quite a beating and keep coming. The problem is most players seem to think that if you can't kill something with a single strike it's not worth playing. I've tried many of the other classes and Wartecher is still my fav.

[Tetsaru]

I was a PC/PS2 server player, and I'm sure some things have changed since the Supplemental Update and GAS and whatever else we didn't get, but from what I remember:


Your PA's have a lower level cap than the other classes, so your damage output sucks


You have crappy buff and support spells, again due to low PA level caps, so if there's another techer in the party, you're useless in this regard


While you may have good defense, defensive stats like DFP and MST are poorly weighed in PSU; everything depends on how high % your armor is and making sure you're using it against the proper enemies


A lot of the S ranks available to WT are weapons that aren't commonly used (knuckles, twin daggers, single claw, etc.)


Can't use traps


Basically, it all boils down to other classes being able to do all the things that WT can do, except better, which is really the downfall of hybrid classes in PSU. They really need something unique that they can do that no other class can do. Fighgunner used to have this advantage back when it was the only class that could use doublesabers, but then Fighmaster came along, and other hybrid classes also got access to them, if I recall.

On the bright side though (and again, unless they changed things up drastically since last time I played), WT has one of the widest varieties of weapon types to choose from. You have plenty of melee options and your techer weapons, and you can also use bows as your long-range weapon.

[Mordi]

this class blows lololo

[Ellrick C-63]

On the JP server WT is way better. So just wait 2 more years on the US server and youll get S rank axes, a stat boost, and Lv 40 skill PA cap.

[TheAstarion]

My main is a WT, and the only thing I'd ever trade it for would be Acromaster. So, that's me, Wartecher for life!

WT is the Jack class, but unfortunately other classes can do most of what it does better. Their signature weapons are shared with Fortefighter and Fighgunner, both of whom get 10 more PA levels and higher stats where it counts.

Their spells, even on a Newman, are outclassed by even the most basic of melee options. So no joy there. Only thing they're useful for is Diga on Mother Brain's arms and Megid on robots. The buffs aren't much better than a buff pill (though it adds up) so people will just wait around for your buffs then pop a megistaride just to prove that point to you.

But it's something they can do, not necessarily have to do. A good WT can fill any spot in the party; they can buff and heal a team of non-techers (or even Masterforces) if they need to, they can deal front line damage and take hits like a champ, this is their main role, or they can even outdamage the haughty Gunmaster's rifle with the humble (lv20) card. This amused me no end during MAG.

Wartecher is hated because it's a class that uses more than one button. Gunmasters spam X, Fighgunners spam Y, techers pick one or the other depending on which is the one spell to rule them all for that particular run. Problem is, the game's so easy, that actually works. WT has to put in a lot of effort to stay on par, and with the same effort others can easily pull away again.

[Siege]

Yea WT is definitely getting better. I was looking @ the updated stat calculator on amesani and was pretty impressed. The male cast WT(which I play) on jp is now superior to a human female FF in every stat category and still has lv 40 skills and axes. And while I don't see a whole lot of human FF's running around this gives you a good idea of where they stack up. Looking forward to that update.

[Omega-z]

WT was never a Sucky class, Just harder to play it since ppl like to take it easy. WT is your Best friend to help you do your combo's or the best meat shield that think's for itself and kick butt and sock up Dmg that you couldn't. And actually WT can out DPS even a FM on the JP sever's. My cast male WT out does a neuman female MF with shijin boost in MST. But honestly the only down side to this class is it's not fast and can't do speed runs very good so everyone on US sever think it sucks, However there are a whole lot more WT in the JP side that play it and others enjoy the class for it's multi-Purpose. It's a challenge class meant for Expert playing that actually enjoy fighting something and not babysit the enemies.

[Nereid]

WT has always been a sucky class and always will be. Crappy support, sub-par melee and ranged damage, awful technic damage unless Newman (at that point you should be playing AT/MF/fT). Just a terrible class.

[XbikXBd]

WT was never a Sucky class, Just harder to play it since ppl like to take it easy. WT is your Best friend to help you do your combo's or the best meat shield that think's for itself and kick butt and sock up Dmg that you couldn't. And actually WT can out DPS even a FM on the JP sever's. My cast male WT out does a neuman female MF with shijin boost in MST. But honestly the only down side to this class is it's not fast and can't do speed runs very good so everyone on US sever think it sucks, However there are a whole lot more WT in the JP side that play it and others enjoy the class for it's multi-Purpose. It's a challenge class meant for Expert playing that actually enjoy fighting something and not babysit the enemies.

this and im am pissed with people saying it sucks it does not >:{

[Ishia]

Yes it does.

[Nereid]

Yes it does.

Obligatory quoted for truth.

Just everything about it is bad. And lol if you honestly think WT will ever out damage a Fighmaster in real gameplay.

[Siege]

Not really. The way I have come to understand the classes on this game is that you always sacrifice vesatility for power and vice versa. There's not a more versatile class than WT in terms of weapon selection and available photon arts. WT will never be "the best" at anything but if the stats are close enough, sacrificing a little power is worth it. I think the recent jp update is pretty close to getting it right, although I wish GT and WT had some sort of plus/minus GAS customization in which you could sacrifice 10 lvs of support techs to gain 10 lvs of att techs and likewise.

[Nereid]

I guess if someone finds having a lot of the bad weapons an excuse for playing a terrible class, that's their cup of tea.

[w@rtech nation]

Ok first of all u fucking know it all bitch, wartecher has no suck to it. Ur fagget ass has no clue like every1 else. twin claws wreck shit way better than dus majarra and has way better mobility. on jp server they can match ff damage with them. the usa server. they are a couple hundred behind. vivi danga is a good group attack wep. if we had less blocking, it would be better than jabroga. as for the lv 30 pa. It only matters on certain pa's. such as zubba and jabroga. lv wartech up and gas it out before talking shit ya bitches

[XbikXBd]

Ok first of all u fucking know it all bitch, wartecher has no suck to it. Ur fagget ass has no clue like every1 else. twin claws wreck shit way better than dus majarra and has way better mobility. on jp server they can match ff damage with them. the usa server. they are a couple hundred behind. vivi danga is a good group attack wep. if we had less blocking, it would be better than jabroga. as for the lv 30 pa. It only matters on certain pa's. such as zubba and jabroga. lv wartech up and gas it out before talking shit ya bitches

<3 and this^

[BlakLanner]

w@rtech nation, you need not use that kind of language to argue your point, regardless of its accuracy. It does little to further the WT cause to speak like that. Besides, out evasion is a very strong point with us due to the counter attack boosts in GAS. Abilities with long windups like ADance and Jabroga work very well since you are invincible during such counters.

[Siege]

Yes, that's the point I was trying to make. WT has always been a strong class but really shines on JP. If you don't believe me plz check the stats!

[Midori Oku]

WT has always been a strong class
lol wut?

[BIG OLAF]

Ok first of all u fucking know it all bitch, wartecher has no suck to it. Ur fagget ass has no clue like every1 else. twin claws wreck shit way better than dus majarra and has way better mobility. on jp server they can match ff damage with them. the usa server. they are a couple hundred behind. vivi danga is a good group attack wep. if we had less blocking, it would be better than jabroga. as for the lv 30 pa. It only matters on certain pa's. such as zubba and jabroga. lv wartech up and gas it out before talking shit ya bitches

^This made me go "tee-hee."

Anyway, to answer the original question: Wartecher is poop, and is indeed hated by anyone with half a brain stem.

All right, continue.

[THLPSC]

WT is a fun class to play I personally think it would be a good replacement for AT in team TAs

[Darki]

Anyway, to answer the original question: Wartecher is poop, and is indeed hated by anyone with half a brain stem.

I know that the tone of your post was tuned to answer that example of cave troll, but I didn't like that sentence too much...

Anybody with half a brain stem would play whatever he/she enjoys, no mather what anybody else says. Because I love WT class and I would have quit PSU 2 years ago if wasn't for that class. Anybody with less than that portion of brain would not play a class because people says it sucks.

[Nereid]

Wartechers are in their own little world, it seems.

[TheAstarion]

Own little world? Perhaps that's more apt than you intended.

We don't box ourselves into "best" territory, and mindlessly pursue DPS and gold PA trails and blinding effects. We play the game at our own pace, and are pretty much invincible for it. We have those who respect the role we play, whichever we are playing. We have our haters. They hate us for what we are; something they never wanted to be. Something they may have had to "endure" for their own goals, rather than celebrate on its own merit.

If you don't enjoy anything at all about Wartecher, then know that Wartecher is everything. If you hate all that it is, you hate your own class, a small corner of the Wartecher's valhalla taken to its less diverse extreme. We, the few, the proud, the Wartechers, pity you and your closed minds, and wish that one day you will awaken to the fact that we are all mere players in this universe, and that we can't all play together, through prejudice or timezone differences or even the maximum party size.

Diversity is life. Diversity is Wartecher.

[THLPSC]

you should spend some more real money on your dil edges.
? Not sure what you mean by this because even a free course player can get these.

[Aantdizzy]

lol wut?

Your always at it huh Midori!! I've seen your post downing WT's at every turn. Grow-up son, move on!!! When I get that AXE and those 40 pa's i'm going to Anga Jabroga your little newman into a million pieces!!! Your time will come!!!!

[Nereid]

Oh no not level 40 Anga Jabroga without a speed boost!!!! PLEASE FOR THE LOVE OF GOD NO!

Also, all these insane WTs attacking me is quite hilarious, keep up the good work. And not only have I not spent money on my Twin Dil Edges, I don't even have any. So...there.

[Midori Oku]

Limit Break Diga out DPS's a Fighmasters Jabroga. What would make a Wartechers any better? >_______________>

Oh, and Aantdizzy, Masterforce with Rutsularod 10/10 > Wartetecher with S rank Axes and lvl 40 PA's.

[Lumpen Thingy]

Limit Break Diga out DPS's a Fighmasters Jabroga. >_______________>

Oh, and Aantdizzy, Masterforce with Rutsularod 10/10 > Wartetecher with S rank Axes and lvl 40 PA's. :)

this made my thread day lmao

[devilstar]

Man didn't mean for my thread to downward spiral into trollville. I was just curious. I like the versatility so I'm gonna keep playing mine.. I do have 3 other char slots to run other stuff :)

[Nereid]

Any thread about Wartechers will end like this, it wasn't your fault.

[BlakLanner]

Any thread about Wartechers will end like this, it wasn't your fault.

Yeah, reminds me of the RDM Melee threads on FFXI. Funny how I end up on the same side of the line there too.

[Midori Oku]

In the end have fun and play what you want. Any class can be "good" but there will always be classes that are at the top, so just don't go around saying Wartetecher is the best (like some do) when it has be proven that it is not.

[w@rtech nation]

In the end have fun and play what you want. Any class can be "good" but there will always be classes that are at the top, so just don't go around saying Wartetecher is the best (like some do) when it has be proven that it is not.


U deal with emotions like bitches
What's sad is I love you 'cause you're my brother
You traded your bt frags for mag riches
My child, I've watched you grow up to be decent
And now I smile like a proud dad, watching his only son that made it
You seem to be only concerned with dissing Wartecher
Were you abused as a force, scared to smile, they called you the suck?
Well life is hard, hug me, don't reject me
Or make post to disrespect wartecher, blatent or indirectly

[Nereid]

Wow, you're so hood.

[Omega-z]

I agree with Midori about "Any class can be "good", if you Make it to be. And I never said WT is the Best overall except socking up damage for better DPS ppl, That It was never a sucky class to begin with nor was any other class. They all have there role's some Harder to figure out then others. Bottom line this Crappy attitude about class vs. class is dumb in the first place and was started over dumb ppl who talked big and wanted to prove themselves over "SPEED DPS RUN" which doesn't mean nothing even Sega knows that and have said it themselves. All it proves is There are fast classes and there are slower one's not weaker one's, speed is not everything and everyone calm down like Midori said "In the end have fun and play what you want".

[w@rtech nation]

Wow, you're so hood.

i embrace y'all with ranzan
combo up, no guts, left chest, face gone
how could wartecher be garbage?
many blades at your cartilage

[THLPSC]

This whole thread has turned into a f*cki*g joke all you need now is for someone to post some pictures and this thread will be complete.

[w@rtech nation]

This whole thread has turned into a f*cki*g joke all you need now is for someone to post some pictures and this thread will be complete.

if your going to say fucking... at least have the balls to not censor it.

[BIG OLAF]

I know that the tone of your post was tuned to answer that example of cave troll, but I didn't like that sentence too much...

Anybody with half a brain stem would play whatever he/she enjoys, no matter what anybody else says. Because I love WT class and I would have quit PSU 2 years ago if wasn't for that class. Anybody with less than that portion of brain would not play a class because people says it sucks.

Well, my sentence was kind of tailored to be a troll response to a troll. I do actually agree with what you said about "enjoying the game", along with Midori here:


In the end have fun and play what you want. Any class can be "good" but there will always be classes that are at the top, so just don't go around saying Wartetecher is the best (like some do) when it has be proven that it is not.

I mean, my main is a Fortefighter. I get ridiculed and made fun of quite often because of that. Hell, I'm pretty sure that a lot of "popular" community members don't like me just because of my class choice.

I just find it funny that people say Wartecher is "the best", for the same reasons Midori said....it's not. I don't go around saying Fortefighter is the best, because it also is not. I just like playing it.

[Siege]

I don't think WT is the best. I just enjoy playing the class and don't think it sucks. That apparently angers some people. Pretty hilarious.

[devilstar]

While I did get some lolz out of this thread ( and still wondering why w@rtecher isn't banned yet ) it does go to show that this game does have a bit of everything for everyone.

Someone just needs to post some star trek tng face palms in this mother and we can call this thread complete.

[Siege]

Sry for the double post but just noticed wartech nation's Nas quotes w/ psu terminology inserted. I lol'd.

[w@rtech nation]

looks like the elitist Narc'D me. we still coming for you niggas

[THLPSC]

looks like the elitist Narc'D me. we still coming for you niggas

You do need to realize that wartecher is not the best class feel free to post your times and they will just get beat by other classes.

[Omega-z]

Sorry, But Posting times don't prove anything, Since everyone will argue over it tell the end of time because of Tradition. And blame game balance between the role's of each class, race, Gender.

Otherwise, Ask for this thread to be locked. since the op's question was answered and it's getting pretty dumb "talking" about different play style's which we can't agree on.

[Midori Oku]

Posting times would only prove who is faster.

Anyways, I am sure 360 Wartecher will not get the following anytime soon:

Seed Express S2: 8-9min

White Beast S2: 8-9min

Lightning Beast S2: 8-9min

Sakura Blast S3: 7-8min

Desert Goliath S3: 10-11min

Duel in the Ruins S3: 3min

Plains Overlord/R: 7-8min

Bladed Legacy S2: 7-9min

Stolen Weapon S3: 7-8min

Just a few missions I could think of that are TA'ed a lot on 360 by multiple classes. These times are not just MF.

[Omega-z]

But that's my point you can't compare any classes base on speed because there all different with different role's. And it's a given that those classes are faster without having to play it, but that's not what makes one strong it's how you play your class that it does. And TA'ing is not my thing might be why I play WT and I want a Challenge out of this game at least. The thing is one may say it's Gimped but another would say it's more of a balanced overall play, It's all on the eye of the beholder, which gives everyone there own since of ownership and individuality to grow and build on there play-styles. Take TA'ing for example, to run a faster time gives those of us a sense of pride and Accomplishment. Same goes for other play-styles also. And I think ppl in general get bent out of shape when you step on them for there play-styles since it's a part of who they are. So saying you don't like a play-style goes hand and hand to saying you don't like them, also say they shouldn't play the game is the same as to not being alive or around. This brings up so may red flag's for each other. If things where all the same and had three classes then thing's would be more boring. But I like how things are and each of us play to the way's we view are lives in real life. The funny thing tho is all the argument's here are no different then in real life.

[THLPSC]

why I play WT and I want a Challenge out of this game at least.
If you want a challenge play force ranger or hunter
Also,
faster>slower

[Omega-z]

*Fixed*
If you want a challenge play Troll, Troll or Troll
Also,
Troll > Classes

I guess that works for you.o.o

[Darki]

If you want a challenge play force ranger or hunter
Also,
faster>slower

And who ever said that we wanna play WT because we think is the best?

I play WT because in ANY videogame, role play game, book, film, comic, manga, TV series, cartoon or anime, or anything that has a fictional backstory, my favorite role has always been the character of the magical swordsman. I love the fact of being able to use offensive spells and swords at the same time, and I like hybrid classes much more than experts. For me, that fact is much more important than trying to be the best in a videogame where nobody is ever going to care about any of your achievements. And just for you to know, I don't fucking care about your TAs.

In this game there are 4 character slots, 8 if you play in JP servers. I could perfectly beat all your TAs with a Masterforce in slot 1, and have all the fun I want playing Wartecher in slot 2. If you have any sort of psychological problem that doesn't let you understand that for some people fun =/= being TEH B3ZST!!1!, that's something you gotta deal with a psychologist, not in a videogame forum. If you don't like to see Wartechers running around the game, go to an empty universe and be, and let us be, happy.

[Nereid]

You all seem to be missing why all this arguing even happened. TC asked why we all hate WT, we stated it's because it's an awful class (FACTUAL INFORMATION MIND YOU) and you all told us it's not awful. Now, you all simply say you play it for fun and who cares if it's not the best. Saying it's not awful is one thing, but if you just play it for fun so be it, doesn't bother me one bit. Just don't ask me to play with you.

[Darki]

After reading just 2 of your posts don't worry, I like to play with people who are able to respect others preferences, I wouldn't ever play with somebody who would ditch another player because of the class they like, lol. For me that sort of player is scum.

"It's awful" is a subjective appreciation, that can be easily countered by "is not awful". Nobody here denied that WT is at the low end of the power scale, but that doesn't make it any "awful", just more difficult to play. For me "awful" is a Fighmaster that only carries 1~2 weapons (as it seems for most FM players 4 are too many) and just spam 1~2 PAs endlessy to do their beloved TAs.

One simple example: for me (and for many), it's not funny to do an Ohtori Encampment TA run in 8 minutes using Assault Crush with 6 twin sabers pallette. I have 36 PAs and I'm proud to say I use all of them (and more, actually). I acknowledge that by doing so, they get the best times, but I would have left the game out of boredom 2 years ago if playing was reduced to spam the PA button with one single PA and one single weapon endlessy and the occasional use of one trap. By that rule, I would say that is "awful" too.

So, the point is: you have all the right to say that Wartecher is probably one of the least powerful expert classes of the game. But that doesn't make it any worse class to play for many people. If you can't accept that fun is different for every player, I don't know what are you doing playing a multiplayer game, specially when you claim that you wouldn't play with somebody with his/her own tastes.

And actually you're the one missing the point of the topic: we're not discussing here what class does the best TAs. He asked why WT is so hated, and some of us are answering that not everybody hates WT.

[w@rtech nation]

Posting times would only prove who is faster.

Anyways, I am sure 360 Wartecher will not get the following anytime soon:

Seed Express S2: 8-9min

White Beast S2: 8-9min

Lightning Beast S2: 8-9min

Sakura Blast S3: 7-8min

Desert Goliath S3: 10-11min
J
Duel in the Ruins S3: 3min

Plains Overlord/R: 7-8min

Bladed Legacy S2: 7-9min

Stolen Weapon S3: 7-8min

Just a few missions I could think of that are TA'ed a lot on 360 by multiple classes. These times are not just MF.
On seed express many classes can 9-10 mins. ff, fg, fi, and maybe pt are some the non master classes. As a wt, I am close. Once I get a vejeri resist... I will be able to take more to build suv for ardites . Pretty much any cast that can kill fast and have suv will run that fast

[w@rtech nation]

You all seem to be missing why all this arguing even happened. TC asked why we all hate WT, we stated it's because it's an awful class (FACTUAL INFORMATION MIND YOU) and you all told us it's not awful. Now, you all simply say you play it for fun and who cares if it's not the best. Saying it's not awful is one thing, but if you just play it for fun so be it, doesn't bother me one bit. Just don't ask me to play with you.

You have provided no facts. Low lv pa's isn't cutting it nor is lower attack. 2211attack is pretty good on my cast wt.

[Siege]

^^^Good point. I play a cast WT as well and enjoy it much more than my newman I had on ps2. The race/class combination plays a good part in terms of strengths and weakness particularly when playing a class like WT. Part of the beauty of the game.

[Mordi]

You have provided no facts. Low lv pa's isn't cutting it nor is lower attack. 2211attack is pretty good on my cast wt.


YEA NUCKA wartechers yea son number 1 in tha hood g unghhhhh best class ever haters hatin but dey don't know about my MADD SKILLLLLLLZZZZZZZZZ DAWGGGGGGGGGGGGGG YEAA

[Omega-z]

I agree it more fun too, But the main problem is that Sega didn't balance the Arco, Master classes well enough with the others that it destroyed the others and still haven't fixed it even tho there trying. WT is "NOT" a SDPS class, It's a Tank to help the other classes. It's power scale between the classes is a 6.5 to 7.5 not weak but not the strongest. Even at rare times a WT can out DPS a FM and there's prove of it here in the forums with the JP test out swords and stuff, WT did 2.6K more plus more hits over a FM even tho it's rare it still happens. And comparing the classes only by speed and dps alone doesn't count for the only things that matter. Other classes have weakness other then what is listed but does it matter no as long you play the class good and have fun doing so just like everyone. But this post was Directed to WT's not others, Why ppl hate or if they do against them. But it wasn't for others except WT's to answer it and not every one else, Because you don't have to deal with it and nor will you at least hope you don't and if it does we will defend you still even if you don't like us. But to truly answer this tread you would have to be a WT most of the time playing PSU and have it as your main straight for at least 3 years to fully answer the OP. Otherwise, it's just Trolling the thread, back in forth arguing with opinions, unrelated reasons and traditional prejudice.

[THLPSC]

*Fixed*
If you want a challenge play Troll, Troll or Troll
Also,
Troll > Classes

I guess that works for you.o.o

So me saying a class I play is not better than other classes I play is trolling? You are an idiot I merely stated that I like doing missions faster hence why I put
faster>slower. You are starting to look like the troll now.


And who ever said that we wanna play WT because we think is the best?

I play WT because in ANY videogame, role play game, book, film, comic, manga, TV series, cartoon or anime, or anything that has a fictional backstory, my favorite role has always been the character of the magical swordsman. I love the fact of being able to use offensive spells and swords at the same time, and I like hybrid classes much more than experts. For me, that fact is much more important than trying to be the best in a videogame where nobody is ever going to care about any of your achievements. And just for you to know, I don't fucking care about your TAs.

In this game there are 4 character slots, 8 if you play in JP servers. I could perfectly beat all your TAs with a Masterforce in slot 1, and have all the fun I want playing Wartecher in slot 2. If you have any sort of psychological problem that doesn't let you understand that for some people fun =/= being TEH B3ZST!!1!, that's something you gotta deal with a psychologist, not in a videogame forum. If you don't like to see Wartechers running around the game, go to an empty universe and be, and let us be, happy.

Let me see in my previous posts I said I enjoy playing WT and in fact I do play WT often. But the difference between me and some of the people in this thread I do not go around saying WT is the best when it clearly is not for me. I like doing missions fast and its that simple that is why I said WT is not the best class. Again that is my opinion and I am entitled to it.



Even at rare times a WT can out DPS a FM and there's prove of it here in the forums with the JP test out swords and stuff, WT did 2.6K more plus more hits over a FM even tho it's rare it still happens.
Out damaging ≠ Out DPSing

[Omega-z]

No, For one you don't play those three and on top of that you were trolling off of what I said, I had explain in the post why before your post. F>S is true if you SDPS and like that play-style and it's fine but stating it here doesn't help anything and is still trolling, sorry.

Sorry again, you said - "WT is a fun class to play I personally think it would be a good replacement for AT in team TAs" - you did not say you'd played the class, secondly it sounds more to be a filler class (for your future TA'ing) and not a main.

everyone of the full time WT's have been saying it's not the best but good your not really reading the post's even if you say you do.

This thread needs to "STOP" and be "LOCKED" it has gone on long enough.!!!!! MOD PLEASE:)

[THLPSC]

No, For one you don't play those three and on top of that you were trolling off of what I said, I had explain in the post why before your post. F>S is true if you SDPS and like that play-style and it's fine but stating it here doesn't help anything and is still trolling, sorry.
Did you even look at the OP you imbecile?


Curious as to why there is a lot of hate ( or atleast dislike ) for wartechers? Yeah you can't get your pa's as high, but you have pretty much every option you might need, which I think makes it a good class for solo'ing. Now keep in mind I haven't gotten into end game stuff ( only level 61 ) but from what I see I think its a decent all around type to play.

So curious as to why this type isn't recommended more, and what the reasons are.
Me pointing out that WT is not faster than other classes in time attacking is showing why many people do not like the class. Also, I hope you are not trying to say what I do and I don't play because obviously you do not know me and you have no clue what I do and I don't play so stop trying to think you know something when you clearly don't. So calling me a troll is now contributing to why people like/dislike WT that is quite funny.

[devilstar]

I have started to notice other folks out doing me in damage, but that's not a huge deal. With my decent amount of hp I take a ton more damage than most and just keep wacking away, with spells and my swords.

Then buff wash rinse repeat.

I got the info i was after. If a mod wants to close it cool, if they wanna keep the topic going that's fine too.

[Omega-z]

We finally got a straight answer from you - pointing out that WT is not faster than Acro, Master classes in time attacking is showing why many people do not like the class. - This make sense and is why many ppl don't and I agree. It would of been better just to say that alone and it would of helped the OP too, but later saying it sucks is uncalled for and thank you for that reply. It's hard to believe some one that doesn't take themselves seriously your under name says Troll akan troll and I'm sorry I didn't do so.

[w@rtech nation]

I have started to notice other folks out doing me in damage, but that's not a huge deal. With my decent amount of hp I take a ton more damage than most and just keep wacking away, with spells and my swords.

Then buff wash rinse repeat.

I got the info i was after. If a mod wants to close it cool, if they wanna keep the topic going that's fine too.

Then ur doing something wrong. If your using shides and ranzan... ur out dpsin random parties

[Nereid]

Then ur doing something wrong. If your using shides and ranzan... ur out dpsin random parties

Implying that you can't join a random party with people that are properly playing their class.

[THLPSC]

It's hard to believe some one that doesn't take themselves seriously your under name says Troll akan troll and I'm sorry I didn't do so.

Its Swedish. And you obviously have no clue what it means.

[Omega-z]

A Magic user, It's hard when we don't know it was sorry again.

Nation what do you mean? devilstar sound like he's doing fine I'm with Nereid on the random party thing.

[Darki]

Let me see in my previous posts I said I enjoy playing WT and in fact I do play WT often. But the difference between me and some of the people in this thread I do not go around saying WT is the best when it clearly is not for me. I like doing missions fast and its that simple that is why I said WT is not the best class. Again that is my opinion and I am entitled to it.

Well, apart from some other peple in the thread that I didn't really pay atention to, I answer because you quoted me, so tell me where in hell did I ever said that WT was the best. I asked you this 2 times already but you don't really read it.

And sorry, but if you're going to say "the best for me", then you're stepping into the realm of subjectivity, and "for me", "the best" is not spamming a single weapon PA for 5 minutes in a mission to finish it before I can even admire the landscape. "The best for me", is a class that can use many weapons and ways to do damage, as I said, the stereotype of a magical knight, and I don't really care if it's Jesus reincarnated or the worst class in the game, I'll play it because I love that sort of role. I also like to enjoy the missions I do, so for me one of the failures of this game is that you can beat any S3 mission in less than 20 minutes with ANY class, or that you can beat a boss in these missions in less than 10 minutes.

So if you wanna say "The best", then nobody (reasonable) here denied that, you can apply DPS, TA, PA levels, etc. as facts. But if you're talking about "the best for you", then I'm sorry, but as you said, that's FOR YOU. The difference between you and some of the people here is that we like different things, and we have different oppinions, and we are entitled to it. That's all we're saying, are we wrong? :/

Nobody, even Neraid with his elite-tard, "I dun wan pway wit u unlash u'r da bazt" attitude, will convince me that doing a TA the most boring way ever designed for a videogame is better than playing a WT. But it seems you keep trying, when we have already told you people that we play WT because we honestly like it, not because we think it's the best. Playing a videogame doesn't reduce to having the longest e-penis, if there's people that don't wanna play with us just because we like to play according to our prefferences, like the mentioned cave troll, well, we couldn't care less. It's not like we'd like to play with an asshole, anyways.

[THLPSC]

Well, apart from some other peple in the thread that I didn't really pay atention to, I answer because you quoted me, so tell me where in hell did I ever said that WT was the best. I asked you this 2 times already but you don't really read it.

And sorry, but if you're going to say "the best for me", then you're stepping into the realm of subjectivity, and "for me", "the best" is not spamming a single weapon PA for 5 minutes in a mission to finish it before I can even admire the landscape. "The best for me", is a class that can use many weapons and ways to do damage, as I said, the stereotype of a magical knight, and I don't really care if it's Jesus reincarnated or the worst class in the game, I'll play it because I love that sort of role. I also like to enjoy the missions I do, so for me one of the failures of this game is that you can beat any S3 mission in less than 20 minutes with ANY class, or that you can beat a boss in these missions in less than 10 minutes.

So if you wanna say "The best", then nobody (reasonable) here denied that, you can apply DPS, TA, PA levels, etc. as facts. But if you're talking about "the best for you", then I'm sorry, but as you said, that's FOR YOU. The difference between you and some of the people here is that we like different things, and we have different oppinions, and we are entitled to it. That's all we're saying, are we wrong? :/

Nobody, even Neraid with his elite-tard, "I dun wan pway wit u unlash u'r da bazt" attitude, will convince me that doing a TA the most boring way ever designed for a videogame is better than playing a WT. But it seems you keep trying, when we have already told you people that we play WT because we honestly like it, not because we think it's the best. Playing a videogame doesn't reduce to having the longest e-penis, if there's people that don't wanna play with us just because we like to play according to our prefferences, like the mentioned cave troll, well, we couldn't care less. It's not like we'd like to play with an asshole, anyways.
I never denied anyone anything did I? I stated my opinion on a subject.

[Omega-z]

I don't think you did THLPSC, It's just we get a lot of guff for the choices we make and get Defensive for our decision, which we can all agree on.

Darki - a reincarnated would be awesome to be in PSU, why not they have Colonel Sander, It would epic and have buda suits too.:)

[w@rtech nation]

Implying that you can't join a random party with people that are properly playing their class.

you god damn right i am. there is alot of terrible players;-)


Well, apart from some other peple in the thread that I didn't really pay atention to, I answer because you quoted me, so tell me where in hell did I ever said that WT was the best. I asked you this 2 times already but you don't really read it.

And sorry, but if you're going to say "the best for me", then you're stepping into the realm of subjectivity, and "for me", "the best" is not spamming a single weapon PA for 5 minutes in a mission to finish it before I can even admire the landscape. "The best for me", is a class that can use many weapons and ways to do damage, as I said, the stereotype of a magical knight, and I don't really care if it's Jesus reincarnated or the worst class in the game, I'll play it because I love that sort of role. I also like to enjoy the missions I do, so for me one of the failures of this game is that you can beat any S3 mission in less than 20 minutes with ANY class, or that you can beat a boss in these missions in less than 10 minutes.

So if you wanna say "The best", then nobody (reasonable) here denied that, you can apply DPS, TA, PA levels, etc. as facts. But if you're talking about "the best for you", then I'm sorry, but as you said, that's FOR YOU. The difference between you and some of the people here is that we like different things, and we have different oppinions, and we are entitled to it. That's all we're saying, are we wrong? :/

Nobody, even Neraid with his elite-tard, "I dun wan pway wit u unlash u'r da bazt" attitude, will convince me that doing a TA the most boring way ever designed for a videogame is better than playing a WT. But it seems you keep trying, when we have already told you people that we play WT because we honestly like it, not because we think it's the best. Playing a videogame doesn't reduce to having the longest e-penis, if there's people that don't wanna play with us just because we like to play according to our prefferences, like the mentioned cave troll, well, we couldn't care less. It's not like we'd like to play with an asshole, anyways.


about time u showed up Spaniard:lol:

[devilstar]

A Magic user, It's hard when we don't know it was sorry again.

Nation what do you mean? devilstar sound like he's doing fine I'm with Nereid on the random party thing.

hey thanks man :) I'm trying to learn all I can. There is sooooo much to take in, and not a lot of easily accessible ( unless you can read Japanese lol )

[w@rtech nation]

Nation what do you mean? devilstar sound like he's doing fine I'm with Nereid on the random party thing.

well when i was play protector's and in a random party not too long ago... i had always in the parties FMs and GMs that were scrubs. ill whip out my shides and start going to town on the bil de vear. the FMs try to use dus majarra on it. by the time they are about to hit it, it dies;-) i dont think devilstar is doing it right. unless he says what he is doing, i can assume he isnt making the most out of it

[Omega-z]

I see, yeah the twin claws are a good weapon for WT. It shows that WT can kill things in reasonable amount of time but out DPS others? Not sure since I wasn't there. I think devilstar was going over the basic way of how WT do things, buff , healing, restoring, then fight again. He's using swords with support with spells nothing wrong with that. That's one thing about WT you can play it differently too and still become good with it.

[w@rtech nation]

I see, yeah the twin claws are a good weapon for WT. It shows that WT can kill things in reasonable amount of time but out DPS others? Not sure since I wasn't there. I think devilstar was going over the basic way of how WT do things, buff , healing, restoring, then fight again. He's using swords with support with spells nothing wrong with that. That's one thing about WT you can play it differently too and still become good with it.

my friend hit 20k just on the first part of ranzan . he is a ff. im not far behind on WT. many people sleep on them. the fact is they are one of the best weps in the game.

[Nereid]

Well, apart from some other peple in the thread that I didn't really pay atention to, I answer because you quoted me, so tell me where in hell did I ever said that WT was the best. I asked you this 2 times already but you don't really read it.

And sorry, but if you're going to say "the best for me", then you're stepping into the realm of subjectivity, and "for me", "the best" is not spamming a single weapon PA for 5 minutes in a mission to finish it before I can even admire the landscape. "The best for me", is a class that can use many weapons and ways to do damage, as I said, the stereotype of a magical knight, and I don't really care if it's Jesus reincarnated or the worst class in the game, I'll play it because I love that sort of role. I also like to enjoy the missions I do, so for me one of the failures of this game is that you can beat any S3 mission in less than 20 minutes with ANY class, or that you can beat a boss in these missions in less than 10 minutes.

So if you wanna say "The best", then nobody (reasonable) here denied that, you can apply DPS, TA, PA levels, etc. as facts. But if you're talking about "the best for you", then I'm sorry, but as you said, that's FOR YOU. The difference between you and some of the people here is that we like different things, and we have different oppinions, and we are entitled to it. That's all we're saying, are we wrong? :/

Nobody, even Neraid with his elite-tard, "I dun wan pway wit u unlash u'r da bazt" attitude, will convince me that doing a TA the most boring way ever designed for a videogame is better than playing a WT. But it seems you keep trying, when we have already told you people that we play WT because we honestly like it, not because we think it's the best. Playing a videogame doesn't reduce to having the longest e-penis, if there's people that don't wanna play with us just because we like to play according to our prefferences, like the mentioned cave troll, well, we couldn't care less. It's not like we'd like to play with an asshole, anyways.

Oh I'm sorry, since when do I TA? And when did I say I won't play with people I don't consider the best? I said I won't play with WTs, not only because they will just slow down the mission, but I generally dislike the kind of person that is dumb enough to play one. You call me elitist but I call WTs stupid.

[devilstar]

I see, yeah the twin claws are a good weapon for WT. It shows that WT can kill things in reasonable amount of time but out DPS others? Not sure since I wasn't there. I think devilstar was going over the basic way of how WT do things, buff , healing, restoring, then fight again. He's using swords with support with spells nothing wrong with that. That's one thing about WT you can play it differently too and still become good with it.

yeah I'm sure to the hardcore I'm doing it wrong. But as this is my highest level ( 64 9 and I'm what many would consider broke ass poor ( just hit 3 mil woot ) I'm sure I'm doing okay by noob standards :)

[Omega-z]

Actually your doing fine Because root-wise we all do the same some way or another and you may find yourself tweaking a little here or there when facing with different mob's. and 3 mil is good at lv 64 keep up the good work.:)

[devilstar]

Off topic, but are you from utah? Am I reading that right?... If so small freaking world.

[Midori Oku]

On seed express many classes can 9-10 mins. ff, fg, fi, and maybe pt are some the non master classes. As a wt, I am close. Once I get a vejeri resist... I will be able to take more to build suv for ardites . Pretty much any cast that can kill fast and have suv will run that fast

I know many classes can get good times. My post was not just aimed at FM/GM/MF. Anyways, I noticed you just said Seed Express, so what about the others? By the way what is you fastest SE time so far?

[Omega-z]

Yeah, I live in Utah :) thanks for asking devilstar

[str898mustang]

Wartecher was matching MF in Rumblin Ruins.

[w@rtech nation]

I know many classes can get good times. My post was not just aimed at FM/GM/MF. Anyways, I noticed you just said Seed Express, so what about the others? By the way what is you fastest SE time so far?

i havent timed attacked the others. i use seed express as the bench mark cause u need good technique to get to block 3 in 4-5 mins. from there its a cake walk. i havent had the easy spawn while time attacking and think i use the whip too much there when i should be using twin claws. i still am tweeking but i have run a 12 without vijeri resist. if i can obtain one in the near future, prob around grind boast... i can take more death balls to build suv and have those 1 min or less block ones.

[w@rtech nation]

yeah I'm sure to the hardcore I'm doing it wrong. But as this is my highest level ( 64 9 and I'm what many would consider broke ass poor ( just hit 3 mil woot ) I'm sure I'm doing okay by noob standards :)

when u hit lv 75 ill run u thru a rare mish... thats is if u are on the 360 server

[w@rtech nation]

Oh I'm sorry, since when do I TA? And when did I say I won't play with people I don't consider the best? I said I won't play with WTs, not only because they will just slow down the mission, but I generally dislike the kind of person that is dumb enough to play one. You call me elitist but I call WTs stupid.

by far the most ignorant post in here. mind u my first two post were pretty damn ignorant. in no way shape or form is a WT slowing down the mission. at least a WT like me. thats unbelievable. clearly this is a victory for wartecher.

[Ishia]

In this thread, everyone is a loser.

[Darki]

You included, then? As you're in this thread too, I mean.

[DivinePhantasy]

All the cross classes are amazing. In my person opinion All the cross classes work best with human or cast. My personal favourite cross class or "master class" is protranser. I never understood why you need to level force to (5) when you never use magic. If you could that class would be unstoppable.

[Orochinagi]

^Agreed, I mained wartecher for 3yrs and Acrotecher for 1 yr and been a protranser ever since. I felt that WT was my favorite clas, but I outgrew it damage wise. This is pretty important to me because I play and solo when my guild isn't on. So I need that speed, power and variety behind it, so I chose PT. PS- PT can use techs on the PSP version, pretty cool. I felt that WT needed to be upgraded as much as the other class for me to go back. I still have my whole pallet and everything. If they allowed you to save set pallets when reverting back to classes along with 0!'s, I would switch more often.

[Darki]

All the cross classes are amazing. In my person opinion All the cross classes work best with human or cast. My personal favourite cross class or "master class" is protranser. I never understood why you need to level force to (5) when you never use magic. If you could that class would be unstoppable.

Supposedly that's to gain the "right" to use the longbow, but that didn't last much as SEGAC decided to start giving weird weapons to other classes like cards to AF, double sabers to GT, grenades to FiG... (I would say doubles and axes to WT but at least those are melee weapons, is not that senseless).

I love hybrid classes (not Acros, I dislike those really much), and for me they are very interesting compared to normal "pure" classes, but sadly SEGA was never able to give them the respect they deserve. If they had balanced all the classes in the correct way, there shouldn't be anybody "hating" any class due to it's low performance, but it seems that SEGA didn't though that after creating 13 expert classes, they should have given reasons to play all of them, not just 3.

My second favorite hybrid is Protranser, I love the idea of a heavy weapons fighter with all those massive weapons at choice, but itdoesn't have magic, which for me is a bit drawback.

[DivinePhantasy]

With the JP severs nothing has been cut back, such as power of SUV or Nanoblast because children complain it's too strong. But isn't that a good thing? Soloing or even teams. You want to get through the mission fast for what ever reason. They were or are planning to weaken the Ares Espada.

But for my WarTetch I would pick a cast because of the better ATA. The ATP is still as good as a beast. & I would make it a female because the female casts have better BDP EVA & alot more MST so combine than with a head slot with more MST like Opa / mind & arm slot like Verjerni / power a body Red/wall & which ever extra, I'd pick Herzeri / PP restore. You would have a kick ass W.T

[Darki]

But that's just a FF with Resta. I would love if WT was a mainly techer class, taking in account that melee is a much more versatile combat way and even if it wasn't too strong, combos and knock effects and multi hits would be of great use.

[Omega-z]

That's the one thing about this class you can tweak the play of if based on the race you pick.
And there's three Sub-types Paladin, Light Assassin and Warlock types for WT. Base on the strength's of each race you can play these easier, but can change them if you wish to do so.

Cast - Paladin, Light Assassin

Beast - Paladin

Human - Paladin, Light Assassin, Warlock

Neuman - Warlock

A lay out of each type:

Paladin type - This is more of the common type most will see, It's a descent fighter has Magic as a back up and very little range. Focus on more meatier Armor in the area's of DFP/ MST to be more of a tank.

Light Assassin - This type is never thought of for obvious reasons or done it with out notice, It's a light fighter using more faster type weapons with a good amount of range weapons and little magic all working with more SE's. Focus on more mid stated armor for defense.

Warlock - This type is not as common but is seen, It's a magic user with melee and range as back up. Focus on more Armor with more EVP/DFP to block off attacks.

And like I said before any 1 of these types can be mixed with any race too or mixed all together for more added fun lol.

[Darki]

Even being a beast I prefer to go with many spells as WT. I'm focusing on getting all the tweaks for them like getting all element caps raised, LBs and attack range, and also TP increases with GAS. I just can't play this class without using magic, unless there's a better wizard in the party and I operate better with the melee weapons.

[Selphea]

Random observation: After the stat boost on JP, a Human WT has more TP than a Human FT o_O!

Once I get AT to 20 I'll be switching over to WT to see how it's like now. The last time I touched that class was back when they had 20 skills, 10 bullets and no TCSMs =x

[unicorn]

I love Wartecher on paper, but it has become an unfocused type. Sega really doesn't know what to make of it, and it has too many options to pretty much do the same thing.

I feel that Wartecher didn't need its recent S-rank Axe addition. It already had Whips, Swords, Double Sabers (if you insist on using Absolute Dance), and Gi-tech Limit Break.

They should've just given it an S-rank in its already usable weapon type (be it Whips, Swords, Double Sabers, Twin Sabers, or Madoogs), and a tech cap of 40, potentially being 50.

30/30/40/30 makes more sense since skills already are the bread and butter, but most players play WT because they have access to techs. And WT is hard to support most of the time because they are in the middle of a PA and don't have the speed of AT. So they should be more offensive tech oriented than the other hybrids. It should pretty much be a less supportive version of FT (without Rods).

GT is still lacking a real boss killer, and their only boss killing weapon is shared with FG and GM and they don't use them nearly as well (shotguns). So they should have received A or even S-rank grenades just for the hell of it. FiG has no reason using grenades whatsoever, if anything, they couldve used S-rank Slicers or Crossbows, or A-rank Laser Cannons for their range needs.

[Darki]

I love Wartecher on paper, but it has become an unfocused type. Sega really doesn't know what to make of it, and it has too many options to pretty much do the same thing.

I feel that Wartecher didn't need its recent S-rank Axe addition. It already had Whips, Swords, Double Sabers (if you insist on using Absolute Dance), and Gi-tech Limit Break.

They should've just given it an S-rank in its already usable weapon type (be it Whips, Swords, Double Sabers, Twin Sabers, or Madoogs), and a tech cap of 40, potentially being 50.

30/30/40/30 makes more sense since skills already are the bread and butter, but most players play WT because they have access to techs. And WT is hard to support most of the time because they are in the middle of a PA and don't have the speed of AT. So they should be more offensive tech oriented than the other hybrids. It should pretty much be a less supportive version of FT (without Rods).

GT is still lacking a real boss killer, and their only boss killing weapon is shared with FG and GM and they don't use them nearly as well (shotguns). So they should have received A or even S-rank grenades just for the hell of it. FiG has no reason using grenades whatsoever, if anything, they couldve used S-rank Slicers or Crossbows, or A-rank Laser Cannons for their range needs.

I support this.

[TheAstarion]

The problem with making WT more tech-heavy is that all techers have access to all spells already. The main reason most people who try Wartecher do so to begin with precisely to be a FF with Resta, just like a HUnewearl. And the main reason HUnewearls were good was because they weren't that far behind the other hunters, and because Rafoie was awesome.

In PSU, attack techs aren't awesome. You need crippling overspecialisation in techs to do well with them, and it's up to the player to provide most of the effort, both in keeping their glass cannon alive, and getting the ability to use spells the way they should have been to begin with (limit breaks for gi-, ra-, and nos-spells).

If a techer class doesn't have max level attack spells, they're only there for flavour. And aside from a few niche uses, like diga for Mother Brain's arms, or megid for robots, they're pretty much just taking up space in your move list. Even a Newman WT can outdamage their spells with the most basic melee options, and WT isn't exactly crippled in that regard. They have twin claws and fists, they can do damage.

My argument is that they're crippled in the one thing they're good at, especially when compared to Fighgunner, who seems to get a new toy every time someone else gets a much-needed boost. The only thing I can be thankful for is that they don't have shotguns, rifles, rods, tech-mags, wands, laser cannons... I think that's it. ST seem to want to give them everything, and they're moving pretty quickly down that road. Then again, it's the Sonic the Hedgehog class, most of their weapons involve spinning, so maybe it's justified.

WT needed its 40 PAs, if only because they didn't have a 40. And 40 attack techs would have been better suited to someone like GT who really does need something flashy... their most impressive move is... yep, Tornoobo Dance level 10. If you give WT a tech buff, it should be in support, where they can heal in the frontlines, the place they're meant to be. The axe, on the other hand... :-?

Protranser is my second favourite, and they've had a level 40 bullet since basically day 1. It could have gone either way, really; bullets or melee. As it is, those 10 levels of bullets makes the distinction that shotguns are better than melee. Would level 30 all round have made a difference? Maybe. How about with a rod, like in PSP? Yeah, I can see that making a difference. PTs the world over would lose their sixth spot to a rod with resta, reverser, giresta and regrant. It'd be cool, but it'd lose its charm; for now I think it's actually better the way it is; Fortegunner with melee, traps, and above all, fun and viable. It's viable because of its level 40 bullets, that puts it on par with Gunmaster in terms of damage after just a couple of AP. Damage, not speed. And with all the other options open, it's just one of the most masterfully well-rounded classes available.

And it just makes me sigh that WT couldn't be given the same amount of thought by those up top who just sideline it as "Karen's class" while "Ethan's class" gets all the toys.

[Darki]

Wartecher is not a good support class, want or not. I've died, and I've let my partners die, many times, just because I've been in the middle of a combo or too far to heal them. Guntecher on the other hand has no restrain to shoot-shoot-shoot-resta-shoot or whatever you wanna do.

And my main is a WT and my girlfriend's main is a GT, we've been playing like that and sometimes switched roles, and she heals way more efficiently than me.

If you ask me, GT is much more compatible for a suppot role than WT. The problem is that you have AT, which supposedly is the ultimate support class yet it does offensive techs way better than any other techer besides MF. AT should precisely be the WORST offensive class in the game, they DON'T need to be good at killing, the sole ability of providing the best support in the game should make them useful enough. But no, they have good TECHs, good melee and good guns, because they get very powerful S ranks (that other classes would give better use, btw, like cards on GT and whips on WT) and speed boost on melee and techs, even having low level PA caps (that can be raised with GAS).

WT suits much more as a total offensive class with both melee and striking techs, and low level support. It should have been the "second option" for those who want powerful techs but less restrictions on equipement as MF has, while GT should be the "second option" on support, for those who would prefer more damage output than AT by sacrifying a bit of support. FT would be the "second option" for those who want more versatility and supportive abilities than MF, but more offensive power than AT.

[Omega-z]

yeah, WT back in the day had more of a purpose. But when adding the other classes or even a little before that Sega forgot to balance the game out. The thing with WT it's a Jack of all trades class, the reason why it is what it is. first comes Defensive ability, then Melee, Tech, Support, Range and with having a lot of options. In this order is how WT is looked at.

[Selphea]

Wartecher is not a good support class, want or not. I've died, and I've let my partners die, many times, just because I've been in the middle of a combo or too far to heal them. Guntecher on the other hand has no restrain to shoot-shoot-shoot-resta-shoot or whatever you wanna do.

And my main is a WT and my girlfriend's main is a GT, we've been playing like that and sometimes switched roles, and she heals way more efficiently than me.

If you ask me, GT is much more compatible for a suppot role than WT. The problem is that you have AT, which supposedly is the ultimate support class yet it does offensive techs way better than any other techer besides MF. AT should precisely be the WORST offensive class in the game, they DON'T need to be good at killing, the sole ability of providing the best support in the game should make them useful enough. But no, they have good TECHs, good melee and good guns, because they get very powerful S ranks (that other classes would give better use, btw, like cards on GT and whips on WT) and speed boost on melee and techs, even having low level PA caps (that can be raised with GAS).

WT suits much more as a total offensive class with both melee and striking techs, and low level support. It should have been the "second option" for those who want powerful techs but less restrictions on equipement as MF has, while GT should be the "second option" on support, for those who would prefer more damage output than AT by sacrifying a bit of support. FT would be the "second option" for those who want more versatility and supportive abilities than MF, but more offensive power than AT.

I think you need to open your mind =x You seem to have a lot of preconceived notions of how PSU should be, presumably taken from other games. But you need to recognize that PSU should be seen in its own light, and that there is no way a game developer can accommodate the exact preferences of every player using a preset class system.

For example, regarding your GT = support, WT = offense argument, I totally don't buy it. I remember on PSO, even as a HUnewearl I would stop mid-combo to Resta/Anti someone if I was on support duty rather than let them die. And it was effective even with my awful Resta/Anti range. On PSU it's a lot easier because Resta and Reverser are so much wider, and there's so much less situations where you actually need to cast them. If you equip say, 1-hander + TCSM with a fast PA like Rising Strike, you can disable a couple of mobs and heal at the same time. As for Guntechers, if they were using a Shotgun to DPS they would have to swap weapons and wait for Resta to become enabled due to weapon swap lag. They'd be worse supporters in that situation. On top of that, if you as a WT are teching offensively then you should be free to cast support techs when needed. So IMO it boils down to the player's mindset and how they play their class.

I also don't buy the argument that AT should be the worst offensive class in the game. In other games, it's justified because supporting is a full time job. However, on PSU you have items that give you 100% heals, even 100% AoE heals and AoE status removal items. And they all don't have cooldowns. This means in the endgame, the only times your Resta will come out faster than their Trimate is when either a) They run out, b) They're disabled or c) They're waiting for you to Resta. With the right armors and/or a good PT the first situation will never happen, and with resist + stamina units the second situation doesn't happen very often either. This means there's really no reason to put in a dedicated support class.

As for AT being second best at offensive techs, FT gets 2 targets on Diga/Foie, LB for 6 targets on Ra-techs and a relative advantage on sustained techs like Dam-techs, Regrants and Megiverse where casting speed doesn't matter. Yes, AT gets a casting speed advantage, but with LB Ra-techs it's a lot easier to keep spawns of 6 controlled, which was the main area FT really lost out to AT on. So IMO at this point in the game the main reason why FT isn't played often isn't because of AT, but because of MF.

I'd say Sega is taking a long time to fix a mess that should have been fixed 5 years ago, but I think Sega's intention with WT/AT is that back during the dark days of WTs with Lv20 Skills there were 2 ways to go with the class - to keep the 20 Skills and make it a main hand melee/off hand tech class, or to improve its ability with 2-handers by finally giving them the 3rd part of the combo. In the end, they chose both by creating AT because they were trying to satisfy players on both camps.

Anyway, the point of this tl;dr is that it kind of bugs me every time I see you post it's always about something negative, like how grinding for GAS is bad or how katanas don't belong in the game or how Class X should be like this and Class Y should be like that and how Sega messed everything up. Maybe you should start looking at what you have instead of what you don't have.

[Darki]

I think you need to open your mind =x You seem to have a lot of preconceived notions of how PSU should be, presumably taken from other games. But you need to recognize that PSU should be seen in its own light, and that there is no way a game developer can accommodate the exact preferences of every player using a preset class system.

I do talk about MY preferences because I can't read other people's minds, but as you can see, I'm not the only one who thinks like that. Apart from that what I truly demand is that if they make a class system with 13 types, they should make EACH and EVERY ONE of them worty of playing, and sadly, the only reasons to play WT, GT and some other classes is just for preconceived notions presumably taken from other games, that we have.


For example, regarding your GT = support, WT = offense argument, I totally don't buy it. I remember on PSO, even as a HUnewearl I would stop mid-combo to Resta/Anti someone if I was on support duty rather than let them die. And it was effective even with my awful Resta/Anti range. On PSU it's a lot easier because Resta and Reverser are so much wider, and there's so much less situations where you actually need to cast them. If you equip say, 1-hander + TCSM with a fast PA like Rising Strike, you can disable a couple of mobs and heal at the same time. As for Guntechers, if they were using a Shotgun to DPS they would have to swap weapons and wait for Resta to become enabled due to weapon swap lag. They'd be worse supporters in that situation. On top of that, if you as a WT are teching offensively then you should be free to cast support techs when needed. So IMO it boils down to the player's mindset and how they play their class.

Of course you were able to do that in PSO. That's very simple, in PSO you 1) didn't have to swap weapons to use Resta, and 2) you had the same three boring, short combos for each weapon that never took too much time to do. Tell me now how do I stop "mid combo" when I'm using Anga Jabroga or any of the two whip PAs that take ages to finish. Apart from that, you're not being objective, because same that GT could be using a shotgun, WT could be using an axe, doubles, twin claws, spears, swords, etc. And let me remind you that while WT is encouraged by all those updates to use two-handed weapons (supposedly to make it the so called FF w/ Resta), GT has many one-handed weapons like crossbows, cards and machineguns that can be paired with a healing wand as easily (and actually, better) than any one-handed melee weapon that WT can use.

In any case, it's true that GT could use offensive techs as well as any other, specially because that would make them great ranged attackers pairing long ranged techs with guns, but that doesn't make WT any better healer. Your point of the shotgun can be taken to WT even easier, as even having to wait for the weapon load, a shotgun doesn't have combos to wait.


I also don't buy the argument that AT should be the worst offensive class in the game. In other games, it's justified because supporting is a full time job. However, on PSU you have items that give you 100% heals, even 100% AoE heals and AoE status removal items. And they all don't have cooldowns. This means in the endgame, the only times your Resta will come out faster than their Trimate is when either a) They run out, b) They're disabled or c) They're waiting for you to Resta. With the right armors and/or a good PT the first situation will never happen, and with resist + stamina units the second situation doesn't happen very often either. This means there's really no reason to put in a dedicated support class.

That doesn't make it any better, you just pointed out that in PSU support is downgraded because it's too easy to pop a trimate. Add it to the list of things that could be done better.


As for AT being second best at offensive techs, FT gets 2 targets on Diga/Foie, LB for 6 targets on Ra-techs and a relative advantage on sustained techs like Dam-techs, Regrants and Megiverse where casting speed doesn't matter. Yes, AT gets a casting speed advantage, but with LB Ra-techs it's a lot easier to keep spawns of 6 controlled, which was the main area FT really lost out to AT on. So IMO at this point in the game the main reason why FT isn't played often isn't because of AT, but because of MF.

Then, tell me why AT has to have the best casting speed, second to MF, good techs (same as WT and actually, more TP), S rank madoogs and ON TOP OF THAT, S rank on almost every melee and ranged one-handed weapon, plus increased melee attacking speed AND traps. It seems a bit unfair to me when you compare it to Guntecher, that instead of giving them S rank cards, they give them... Double Sabers.


I'd say Sega is taking a long time to fix a mess that should have been fixed 5 years ago, but I think Sega's intention with WT/AT is that back during the dark days of WTs with Lv20 Skills there were 2 ways to go with the class - to keep the 20 Skills and make it a main hand melee/off hand tech class, or to improve its ability with 2-handers by finally giving them the 3rd part of the combo. In the end, they chose both by creating AT because they were trying to satisfy players on both camps.

That's your theory. My theory is that they created AT/AF just to sell AotI and the new weapons (seeing that they got all the S ranks on them), they fucked up half the already existing classes, and they didn't discover yet how to fix the mess.

I don't know what would have been the problem of making WT as a mainly techer class when there are already 6 mainly fighting types (with this I mean that they focus on melee, they would be FF, FiG, AF, WT, PT, FM) compared to just 3 mainly techers (that would be FT, AT and MF, as WT and GT's techs suck, as in that even a newman WT does more damage using melee than techs, and that's sad).

Funnily, from all those 6 fighters in the game, there are 5 that get to level 50 melee (counting GAS, and FM). But for some reason there are only two out of 5 techers in the game that can get their techs past 40 (FT and MF). Why would it be that bad that they had given WT (or GT) level 40 striking techs too? There are a crapload of maxed fighters already. One of the reasons for me to think that WT should get level 40 techs is because that would give more variety to the "good" techers, not only 1~2 classes. I don't see any need for yet another melee-focused class. Another reason for me to assume that WT was the best candidate to get high offensive techs, is simply because you have alreafy FiG which is more melee-oriented, GT is more ranged-oriented, to the only one left would be the techer. It could have been done the other way around (FiG being more gunner than fighter, GT more techer than gunner, WT more fighter than techer) but for that it would take much more changes to palettes and weapon proficiencies, I assume.


Anyway, the point of this tl;dr is that it kind of bugs me every time I see you post it's always about something negative, like how grinding for GAS is bad or how katanas don't belong in the game or how Class X should be like this and Class Y should be like that and how Sega messed everything up. Maybe you should start looking at what you have instead of what you don't have.

Well, then you should read a bit more this thread when I was actually defending the class from those who started trolling the post saying thart WT sucks just because, or that is negative too? It's true that I find myself most of the time ending in places like this, but it's just that I can't stop feeling bothered by people who starts making hate posts against other things, but I don't recall starting any of those of messing with anybody irreasonabily as many people did in this very post. Don't you have any complaint against those, then?

I love this game, and that's the only reason for me to complain so much, because I like it, if I didn't like it I'd care a shit about it, then I wouldn't complain. About the GAS thing, the only thing you seem to notice is that I complained, but do you actually noticed what did I complain about? Or are you telling me that you don't agree with me that they could have added the multiple hit-box attack as a patch as it should have been, instead of adding it as a bonus that we have to earn?

WT is my favorite class as it is, I'm just posting the way I would like it even more, if you would like it a different way, then make your own post, if you don't like it, well, sorry for that.

[Siege]

I understand where both of you are coming from. At this point I've just taken the stance that I will tweak my playing style to get as much out of the class as I can. I started the game on ps2 as a newman under the impression that my techs would outdamage melee but figured out that this wasn't the case. I switched to cast as the class has evolved into more of a melee class and now just use techs for status. I may just switch to megistar in the future and do away w/ buffs/debuffs in the future because stuff just dies to fast in a 4-6 person party. Also thinking of maxing my ice spells w/ gas and using freeeze crusher to create a sort of "ice knight." Either way I guess I'm just glad that the class has improved. The biggest problem I see is that the game is generally too easy and enemies die too fast for the uniqueness of each class to shine through. With the most recent jp updates it would seem to me that the developers have realized that the versatility of hybrids is not enough to satisfy their deficit in dps so they're tried to improve the classes in those areas to make them more attractive to the average player rather than adjust stats/AI of the game's enemies. Whether they've been able to accomplish their goal remains to be seen. That's just my take on things

[unicorn]

I'm not going to quote long walls of text but....

Wartecher doesn't need more support. Then its basically a slower Acrotecher. Its pretty much unanimous that everyone agrees that WT needs to excel at Melee + Offensive techs.

AT is the Melee + Support hybrid.

Guntecher needs the support, guns are easier to interrupt than PAs.

[Selphea]

Tell me now how do I stop "mid combo" when I'm using Anga Jabroga or any of the two whip PAs that take ages to finish.

Jabroga no, but should a WT be using Jabroga in the first place? IMO It depends on party composition. The character with the lowest DPS in the party should be on heal duty and avoid using PAs with long commit times. That said, the first part of either whip PA doesn't take that long to finish. Tornado Break is a similar AoE and the first two parts don't have very long commit times either.


That doesn't make it any better, you just pointed out that in PSU support is downgraded because it's too easy to pop a trimate. Add it to the list of things that could be done better.

I think the intent behind the PSU system is the same as the intent behind GW2 doing away with tanking and healing (Link (http://www.guildwars2.com/en/the-game/combat/healing-death/)). They wanted to make characters more self-sufficient so that it was easier to form parties. PSO, much as I liked it, was too dependent on having an FO/Pseudo-FO in the party.


Then, tell me why AT has to have the best casting speed, second to MF, good techs (same as WT and actually, more TP), S rank madoogs and ON TOP OF THAT, S rank on almost every melee and ranged one-handed weapon, plus increased melee attacking speed AND traps. It seems a bit unfair to me when you compare it to Guntecher, that instead of giving them S rank cards, they give them... Double Sabers.

Every other class seems unfair compared to Guntecher =p It's true that when AotI was released, Sega underestimated the potential of Acro-speed, but they've been trying to compensate over the years. As of the latest update on JP, both WT and GT have more TP than AT. They also have much higher PA caps than AT in their respective specialties - 40 Skills/Bullets vs 20. The S-Rank advantage isn't much either. On melee weapons it's a lot more practical to get a high % 10/10 A-rank with FCP than it is with S-ranks. For ranged weapons GT has much better options than cards, just that IMO GT is still an incomplete class until they get a ranged weapon for multi hitbox targets.


Don't you have any complaint against those, then?

I make it a point not to feed trolls ;-)

Anyway, the main thing I don't understand about the WT = offense techer, GT = support techer argument is that in most cases, offensive techs do not increase net DPS. If someone is casting attack techs, it means they are not melee/gunning, and those options typically do more DPS than teching. If teching did more DPS than melee/gunning, then it would defeat the purpose of giving Wartechers melee and Guntechers guns in the first place. On the other hand, support techs do increase net DPS in solo or parties without an AT or FT. Higher buffs mean higher buffed stats. There is no opportunity cost to casting better buffs either - they will be casting buffs less often and getting more time to actually use their skills/bullets. Not to mention, increase in net DPS is exactly what the hybrids need.

[Ishia]

You included, then? As you're in this thread too, I mean.

Yes. We have all lost.

[Omega-z]

I agree Selphia about using more speeder type of PA's or using parts of them. Base on what the party is made up of or style the team play change lol you could say I go with the flow lol. Say if the party was DPS'ing quickly then yes just use the first part of the whip combo to do quick blows + not knocking the foes away ether is a plus. that or run ahead of the party to debuff the attack power of the foes so party can have better stability ( especially when your the Healer in the group). One thing that you have to consider is the PP rate of usage at 40+ the use of spells is costly for WT and not really suited for them. Casts and Beast would have a hard time since they have lower modifier for tech PP compareed to Human and Neuman. we do have a 25% boost but that doesn't help much as a low teching WT. Now I'm not say don't do it, just think about it before doing it. As for me I want to stay at 30 tech because I'm a cast and get more teching power with more PP then I do in raw power for the tech, not counting the cost for each techcasting. Some spell 2X in cost which can cripple a WT if they were say a Cast, 30/30 is fine for a Cast but might not be for someone else. if WT gotten 40 Tech power I would lose power and efficiency in using my techs to the point in not have them at all. But having 40 Skill doesn't hurt the PP cost much at all if any, It might explain some reasoning with Sega with pleasing all WT's. :}

[Darki]

Jabroga no, but should a WT be using Jabroga in the first place? IMO It depends on party composition. The character with the lowest DPS in the party should be on heal duty and avoid using PAs with long commit times. That said, the first part of either whip PA doesn't take that long to finish. Tornado Break is a similar AoE and the first two parts don't have very long commit times either.

As you said it depends on party composition, but it still doesn't make it better than GT at support. As I've said, many times I've been killed, or party mates, just because I've been doing the first part of a short combo and I didn't have time to heal because damage was coming too fast. In the other hand, my girlfriend has saved me easily from those situations as many times as I've died trying to do her job, and you can argue that she's better player than me (which could be) but I've been playing WT at least twice as much time as she has been playing the game, so I would say that I'm not a n00b either.



I think the intent behind the PSU system is the same as the intent behind GW2 doing away with tanking and healing (Link (http://www.guildwars2.com/en/the-game/combat/healing-death/)). They wanted to make characters more self-sufficient so that it was easier to form parties. PSO, much as I liked it, was too dependent on having an FO/Pseudo-FO in the party.

Then, why to give WT and GT support at all? They could have kept them at level 10 and give them high level offensive techs, because what's the point on wasting time levelling support techs when everybody can buy 20 trimates, 20 Antimates and 10 star atomizers? If as you said, this game was meant to not to rely on support as much, it doesn't make sense that at least 3 classes have their offensive power downgraded supposedly because they're able to do support.


Every other class seems unfair compared to Guntecher =p It's true that when AotI was released, Sega underestimated the potential of Acro-speed, but they've been trying to compensate over the years. As of the latest update on JP, both WT and GT have more TP than AT. They also have much higher PA caps than AT in their respective specialties - 40 Skills/Bullets vs 20. The S-Rank advantage isn't much either. On melee weapons it's a lot more practical to get a high % 10/10 A-rank with FCP than it is with S-ranks. For ranged weapons GT has much better options than cards, just that IMO GT is still an incomplete class until they get a ranged weapon for multi hitbox targets.

And still, AT is more efficient in parties than GT or WT, or so is said.


I make it a point not to feed trolls ;-) Well at least that means you don't consider me a troll. <_<


Anyway, the main thing I don't understand about the WT = offense techer, GT = support techer argument is that in most cases, offensive techs do not increase net DPS. If someone is casting attack techs, it means they are not melee/gunning, and those options typically do more DPS than teching. If teching did more DPS than melee/gunning, then it would defeat the purpose of giving Wartechers melee and Guntechers guns in the first place. On the other hand, support techs do increase net DPS in solo or parties without an AT or FT. Higher buffs mean higher buffed stats. There is no opportunity cost to casting better buffs either - they will be casting buffs less often and getting more time to actually use their skills/bullets. Not to mention, increase in net DPS is exactly what the hybrids need.

You're again relying in a factor that has not been well developed from the game as an excuse. The point is, then, why do hybrids do less damage than the "pure" classes? According to that, as techs are useless compared to melee in WT, they should be as powerful as a FF with melee. You'd say that WT can support, but you also said that the game doesn't need to rely on supporters. A WT with resta is slower at killing AND supporting than a FF with star atomizers. So why then the difference of power?

From my point of view, the problem is that damage in the game is not well defined, and you have there supposedly melee-resistant monsters that you can whoop their asses with an axe like 5 times faster than most techs. Also, melee weapons do freaking-tastic effects, like Jabroga creating a whole earthquake that smashes the floor (and the monsters) much stronger than the tech that should do that work, Gi-techs, there is even a melee weapon that has the same effect than the strongest techs (Diga and Foie) which is slicer, because slicer has a 3 way combo and the only downgrade of this weapon is just that it doesn't multi hit targets (but the whole rest of melee weapons do that). Finally, something that in PSO was done right which was the elemental attributes, in this game you can have element on anything, so not even that advantage was kept by techers.

On top of that, while you can do a whole multi target smash with a 1* sword and the simplest PA ever (Tornado Break), you gotta cap or do GAMs to death to allow just 2~4 techs to multi target.

If there was a real difference between melee and magic in a way that they were trully situational depending on the monster's resistances, and for example a melee resistant monster could be killed in 3 Digas while you'd need to smash it 30 times with the strongest melee PA to kill it, then hybrids would shine the way they should, as their field wouldn't be raw damage in their speciality, but moderate damaging ability on everything. Apart from that, if WT has already Gi-techs and they'll be able to GAS them to do multi target, then I wouldn't give WT MORE means to do EXACTLY the same with melee, I would encourage them to use what they already have. I love axes and I use them now on WT because it's my main, but I'd trade axes for the ability to deal that much area damage with my GI techs (or proportionally, as I'm a beast and I admit that my techs should be weaker than average).

[Omega-z]

Darki is right that "the problem is that damage in the game is not well defined", and would add Money on things too. But yes Damage is the biggest factor of all when comes to the unbalance in this game; like example weak monsters, to high of Melee % on PA and re-balance of other PA's, to much reliance on % for armor and weapons, re-define on Defensive stat's and have a greater impact on certain one's of those stat like DFP with the races, have ATA and EVP matter alot and have race weakness in those area show up more, bring back the death penalty, drop the amount of measta back to what it was or increase shop items base on the economy and make recovery items harder drops in a mission, and re-define the class to fit there roles. These are some of the issues this game has. But if it never happen oh well just make lemonade with lemon's. :)

[bloodflowers]

Wartecher only got axes because someone at Sonic Team is in love with the Guntecher/Wartecher hybrids, they keep on buffing both of them nearly randomly without really sitting back to think why the classes are unpopular.

The game requires no strategy anymore, the only things that matter are damage output and damage output. The reason AT gets a free pass here is because it increases the damage output of optimal classes, aside from that the support role is dead & buried if you're playing with even vaguely competant people.

The only way to change the default party makeup (without doing the job properly and rebalancing the whole game) is buffing classes so that they're overpowered, which is something Sonic Team knows all about - hence axes for WT, the incredibly broken power of Limit Break, and Guntechers with Transportation Dance.

Wartecher is dead in the water in the US because Acrotecher is better at what the party needs from that role. They might end up giving WT the ability to get L50 buffs, which would kill Acrotecher, then you'd see AT getting all manner of upgrades (actually it could do with a tune-up now, the only techer class in JP with no Limit Break, and super-low PA caps). A third option is the US might see Cosmorides, which kills AT and WT - hopefully not though since Cosmorides only exist to sell more Guardians Cash, which we don't have. This might actually be the only good thing about not having GC.

Most of this is academic now, I don't expect we'll see most of these gameplay updates outside of Japan given the update schedule, and in Japan Sonic Team will just lurch from one mistake to another, buffing things left and right while every class in the game can kill 90% of enemies in a single PA already.

[Darki]

^While I agree with most of what you say, I don't truly get why you mention Limit Breaks as overpowered buffs, when they're sadly the only thing they're doing right. IMO Techs need a huge buff, and not only for high-end players who have the best gear annd spend insane amounts of time grinding.

I've complained a lot about LBs being bonuses that you gotta work for when techs should automatically hit multiple hit-boxes, but there's something that they did right and was to restrict the ussage of certain techs on certain classes. They should have done this in a more extensive way, same than in PSO where some techs were unable to be learnt by some classes, and some other techs had diferent effects deppending on the user.

One of the problems of this game is that, save for weapon restrictions, everybody can do everything. If techs were that way, and depending on the class you played they worked slighty different, boosting some classes aspects, it would have helped a lot to give more variety to the game.

My whole point of this is what I keep repeating since before AotI: id you make a bunch of classes, you gotta give reasons to play them all, not just a few. Giving axes to WT is nothing like that, there are 3 other classes that could use axes already.

[bloodflowers]

^While I agree with most of what you say, I don't truly get why you mention Limit Breaks as overpowered buffs, when they're sadly the only thing they're doing right. IMO Techs need a huge buff, and not only for high-end players who have the best gear annd spend insane amounts of time grinding.

Simple - TECH damage wasn't actually that bad as soon as MF appeared. Add together all the GAS bonuses and without limit break in many situations they're pretty good - just add up all the Ra hits sometime. Simple techs though, were definitely underpowered. They were hitting really hard, but only in one spot. What does Sonic Team do? Make them hit FOUR spots, quadrupling the damage and turning MF into a class that nukes bosses with no trouble at all, and takes out large enemies like Grinna Beta in a single hit.

Two or maybe three spots, that wouldn't have been too much, but four?

Of course in typical Sonic Team fashion, this massive upgrade wasn't offered to any of the tech classes who were already considerably weaker.


I've complained a lot about LBs being bonuses that you gotta work for when techs should automatically hit multiple hit-boxes

Even a casual player can easily max out their character and earn AP with all the bonuses regularly thrown to players. I've earned 25 AP since the weekend, and I haven't played that much.

[Darki]

^I do agree with what you said about MF, but not with the rest of LB. Anyways what can we say, this is SEGAC we're talking about.

In the other example, I don't really play too often, and I still think that multi-hitbox techs should have been a fix added directly to TECHs. Imagine now that halfd the TECHs missed their targets when they shouldn't and SEGA, instead of sixing it, gave the fix disquised as a prize feature.

I wouldn't have ever made Diga and Foie a 4-hitbox techs, for that I'd have given MF the limit break for Ra-techs, but the damage is done already.

[Midori Oku]

I wouldn't have ever made Diga and Foie a 4-hitbox techs, for that I'd have given MF the limit break for Ra-techs, but the damage is done already.

Why? LB Diga/Foie is better than the LB Ra-techs in terms of DPS. (for the most part)

[Darki]

Because that destroys the purpose of those techs, simply that. Diga and Foie are supposedly linear techs that hit very hard one spot, and Ra- techs are the long range area damage dealers. So why would you change COMPLETELY Diga and Foie to be h4x versions of Ra- techs, instead of just making Ra- techs multi hit-boxes AND increase their power, range, etc, so they actually do what they should be doing?

I'm not talking about what they do, I'm talking about the concept behind them. If they added now a LB that made Dam- techs to be homing bullets that would seek a target and explode when you release the button, I'd tell you that for that you had already Nos- techs.

PSU is full of those shits, instead of taking the thing that logically should do that function, they pick something that has nothing to do and change them completely, making those things that should have been used almost useless intead.

[fatalen]

Sad to say, in a team wartechers don't really have a place, but going solo, especially on the JP servers, they are brilliant, especially longer missions where just a pack of supplies wont cut it. Yes their buffs and damage may nto compare to other classes, but have you seen a fighmaster use a spell to buff himself? Have you seen a masterforce kick ass with dual claws? The answer is no. For solo players WTs are the best choice.

[Darki]

[...]they are brilliant, especially longer missions where just a pack of supplies wont cut it.

I won't deny that I think they're brilliant, but...

That statement loses much when you take in account that in 99% of the missions you can just go to the next crystal, teleport to the lobby, resuply and go back to the block you were in less than 3 minutes. Yeah, it can break a bit the mood, but it's an option, and easy on top of that.

But that is just part of the already discussed problem of supportive items being to useful and cheap to acquire.

[Midori Oku]

For solo players WTs are the best choice.

Uhhhhhhhhhhhhhh

Sure, you could solo with any class, but most people that solo want to do missions fast. Anyways, Wartecher may have many options when it comes to solo runs (and I am sure WT can solo just fine) but when you have classes doing the same missions easier, faster, and just as effective you can't say it is the best to solo with.

[TheAstarion]

For solo, WT is easily the most forgiving. You'll be the best person to confirm this, Midori... classes like Hamsterforce are fast, obscenely powerful with the right equips and enough effort in levelling... and about as durable as rice paper. It means you have to be dedicated to do the best damage, and skilled to not get hit. WT removes the need for skill, all you need is decent elemental armour and giresta and you're pretty much invincible under most circumstances.

Some of us have horribad connections. I don't know how anyone in Europe can play JP PSU, because I have a one second gap, on average, between hitting things and them deciding to take damage. And from the other perspective, by the time I see an enemy doing an attack, the server has already decided whether or not I've been hit. I physically can't dodge even simple things like De Ragan fireballs because of this; whereas I have no problems on the Western servers.

WT, for me, removes the problem of getting hit. It adds a safety net that otherwise wouldn't be there. I sacrifice FF damage to have resta. I guess, perhaps, that I am a FF with resta... and rudimentary buffs. And I guess I can't deny that maybe that's all I ever wanted, and that I can't see anything particularly wrong with it in that regard. Those who want lv40 attack techs, there's a class for that. It's called Fortetecher, and it's pretty much universally regarded as shit. There's also another class for that, it's called "I just became Masterforce and don't have lv50s yet" and that's not so much looked down upon as accepted into mainstream play, part of the experience curve.

Aaaand that's the point where I got called away for an hour and lost my train of thought.

[THLPSC]

Some of us have horribad connections. I don't know how anyone in Europe can play JP PSU, because I have a one second gap, on average, between hitting things and them deciding to take damage. And from the other perspective, by the time I see an enemy doing an attack, the server has already decided whether or not I've been hit. I physically can't dodge even simple things like De Ragan fireballs because of this; whereas I have no problems on the Western servers.


My ping is 204 on average though that is not much of a difference from xbox psu
where my ping is 189. Not much of a difference from me .

[Orosan]

Sorry I'm going to offend some people, but it has to be done. Just so you understand where I'm coming from, I have to mention that I'm an almost 45 yrs old gamer that started when the Pong Console came out. I saw the arcade era being born and later die here in the USA. My eyes wept when they kept closing arcades. So I have many more yrs of gaming experience than most of you guys. I also happen to be a father of a 19 yr old son, who is also a gamer. Me being more experienced I feel compelled by my paternal instinct to talk to you just like our parents and grand parents often do regardless of our age(edited for explanation).So with the introductions done I hope to teach something to you young Padawans.

I can spot young people(and not so young inmature people) right away in these forums. Those are the ones that speak like this: " This or that suck" or "I booted him because it was slowing me down or using the wrong element" or "Those Noobs this or that" or "They don't know how to play this game" or "Zomg, Pwned, Noobz" or speed>whatever, power>whatever, nonsense>nonsense" etc, etc, and etc. You know why I know and say this? Because adults don't speak like that in a public space such as a forum(And no, I don't define adults by age, but by maturity). (edited for specificity)

I happen to play a human male wartecher(WT), which I chose because in my mind it looked to be the closest to my old PSO Humar. A character that I played before I got divorced, when I was still living in the same roof with my son. I was pleasantly surprised when I realized that WT have a vast choice of weapons I could equip, since PSO and PSU to me is a game of always finding your next rare(Or in the case of PSU finding or buying). Some people consider WT to be the 2nd worst class of this GAME. That might be true or not, but in a game where the options are easy or a little bit easier that argument is meaningless. But the op wants to know why such hatred is displayed towards it. Often people hate on what they don't understand; or simply don't grasp the concept, or logic, that just because you don't like something it doesn't mean it "sucks" or needs to be hated.(edited for explanation)

I have no problems playing solo with my WT, most monsters die within 1 combo of Vivi Danga or Hikai Shuha-zan(When I say 1 combo I mean including all the parts of the combo. Monsters can die before the combo is finished) . I use stronger weapons or techs when is called for. So I find really hard to believe than in a mission with 6 players "sucky classes" slow down the mission. If I can clear a horde of monsters with 1 combo, imagine 6 peolpe hitting at the same time. So by your own definition no class "suck" because the monsters can't withstand a full party. Even if the 6 members were to be what the inmatures call "sucky classes" the monsters are quickly killed.

I usually solo the missions, but when I play with friends or randoms I have zero problems with the way they play. They can use the wrong element. They can blow away all the monsters. They can do whatever they want to do as long as they are not hoarders or booters. It never bothers me. This is only a game. It's not real life. If you think about it, the people that complaint about others is akin to the people who never pick weaker players in a Basketball game at the gym or park. Is a type of bullying, something an adult would never do because we value fun and respect to others higher than winning.

I pity those who define the game in general in terms of speed, power or such. It's ok to value those things personally, for your own character or class you pick. But to define whats good or bad to other people in a MMO is utterly ignorant and ridiculous. Each person defines whats fun, good or bad for themselves. It takes no effort to accept it and move forward. It takes a monumental amount of wasted time to hate on something, specially something as ephemeral as the classes of a Video Game. In a world full of people there is no single item or service that will fit or satisfy everyone. That's why there are choices and we pick what work better for every single one of us and we make it work; no matter the advantages or disadvantages.

I always say that if you make a decision stick to it and make it work. That's how I play my video games. But at the same time I understand and respect those who change to something more to their liking; being power or speed etc. But to say this or that "sucks" in this game is illogical because it takes very little effort to kill enemies with any class after you have lvl up yourself and your PA's, and learn the nuances and the correct weapons for your enemies. If an old guy like me with bad reflexes doesn't have a problem soloing missions with my male Human WT, I doubt that a younger person would have any problems at all with any of the classes.

In regard to Time attack and speed, if you define YOUR game by those parameters that's perfectly fine. But to arbitrarily decide that this define prowess in this game is nonsense. In a game with so many personal choices prowess can only be defined personally and objectively. Maybe you want to be the quickest. Or maybe you want to be able to equip the most weapons. Or maybe you want to prove that you can master the game with a basic class. Maybe you want to wear the coolest clothes. Maybe you want the flashiest weapons, or the weakest weapons. Or just maybe you want to be the slowest or weakest. Any of these things can personally define what's good or bad in this game. It's up to us to decide which is it for ourselves and our style of play. It's ignorant and/or inmature to decide it and define it for others.

If you don't get the message in my post maybe is time to take a break and do other things before coming back to PSU. You'll realize how much more enjoyable the game is when you stop judging other people choices, and see it as a gift of diversity in our virtual world. If everybody were to be the same class(Because it was the "best" one) I guarantee to you that this game would become boring.

Sorry if anybody took my stabs to heart, but as a parent I'm used to tough love and straight truth. Anyway, may the force be with you, and Live long and prosper.

PS sorry for any typos. English is my 2nd language.

[Anna_Wren]

I can't believe this thread is still going and all the goofyness.

I've been a Wartecher since the game released the class (Ask Bloodflowers) and I should know better than anyone that it's not a very powerful class, and outside of some specific missions the masters and other advance classes will always out perform it, and in those missions another class is better.

Wartecher is actually best played in a group and not alone, as its actual purpose is to fill out roles during the run. No support? Thats your job. No ranged mob control? Thats your job. No meatshield? Thats you job. Need to shoot a boss down? Thats your job. Never expect or even think you will outdo any other class. Your job is total combat support and a well played Wartecher will often be confused for other classes (I've been called Acrotecher a lot, and sometimes even a Fortefighter) due to its ability to shift mid mission into other roles. If a run is better suited to a specific class then realize that there is a reason PSU lets you change without a penalty.

[Ishia]

You can compose an entire essay about how much you like Wartecher, but it will always remain the second worst class in the game.

[BIG OLAF]

I have many more yrs of gaming experience than most of you guys. I also happen to be a father of a 19 yr old son, who is also a gamer.

What does that have to do with anything? General gaming experience is not tantamount to knowing the mechanics on one particular game, such as PSU.


Because adults don't speak like that(And no, I don't define adults by age, but by maturity).

Oh, you'd be surprised. Very, very surprised.

[Ishia]

What does that have to do with anything?

USI off the damn charts.

[Orosan]

I edited my post. So now is longer :) , due to responses.

[Midori Oku]

For solo, WT is easily the most forgiving. You'll be the best person to confirm this, Midori... classes like Hamsterforce are fast, obscenely powerful with the right equips and enough effort in levelling... and about as durable as rice paper. It means you have to be dedicated to do the best damage, and skilled to not get hit. WT removes the need for skill, all you need is decent elemental armour and giresta and you're pretty much invincible under most circumstances.

I could see how that could affect a newer/inexperienced player, but what would happen if you compare an experienced WT to an experienced MF? More than likely you would see that the MF would be more effective soloing. I am not trying to put WT down, I am just trying to prove that WT is not the best solo class. Also some people here may think that I am trying to say MF is the best solo, no I am not.

Unfortunately, this game has no balance when it comes to the classes. For example, as soon as Supplemental hit, Fortetecher instantly/unfortunately became the worst class. (not saying people shouldn't play it) It feel so far behind all of the other classes because it got nothing other than a evasion boost. Acrotecher had higher support and still could out DPS it with techs and Masterforce had Limit Breaks/massive stat boosts. In Japan FT has Ra-tech Limit Breaks, so it is much better than it is on 360. The sad part is that more than likely (in Japan) MF will get something that will just push MF ahead of FT that much more.

[Omega-z]

actually, WT can be very good not the best at Soloing and the durability that others mite not care about. When monsters are higher to the point in stat's when it takes to long to do. durability will out do to Scapedolls in any fight. I guess you can chuck it up to experienced/inexperienced LOL this tread remind's me of the last Rocky Movie as the retired underdog which is like the WT class oldie but goodie. lol

[w@rtech nation]

You can compose an entire essay about how much you like Wartecher, but it will always remain the second worst class in the game.

shut the fuck up dude. WT is better than AT, PT, FT, GT, FG, and might even be better than GM in most missions. Assault Crush is that shit right now and now access to dus skadd makes them even better. they already have one of the best pa's in ranzan. with those other 2 where there at, WT is hardly the worst class.

[BIG OLAF]

shut the fuck up dude. WT is better than AT

That's all I had to read before I lol'd.

[w@rtech nation]

That's all I had to read before I lol'd.

my opening statements tend to generate laughing;-)

[Anna_Wren]

shut the fuck up dude. WT is better than AT, PT, FT, GT, FG, and might even be better than GM in most missions. Assault Crush is that shit right now and now access to dus skadd makes them even better. they already have one of the best pa's in ranzan. with those other 2 where there at, WT is hardly the worst class.

JP doesn't apply to 360 (points to topic title) so you should be more careful and read. Since you didn't that means you should just be ignored.

[w@rtech nation]

JP doesn't apply to 360 (points to topic title) so you should be more careful and read. Since you didn't that means you should just be ignored.

well u can just go fuck yourself cause u only take away GM and maybe FG. then u add FI. thus not making it the worst

[w@rtech nation]

JP doesn't apply to 360 (points to topic title) so you should be more careful and read. Since you didn't that means you should just be ignored.

oh and if you read this thread then u would known i have made very valid points in previous post in here. so remove wartecher from your title because i am stripping u from it. i am the gen of w@rtech nation ur soldier ass doesnt respond to me or address me without sir in there.

[Anna_Wren]

oh and if you read this thread then u would known i have made very valid points in previous post in here. so remove wartecher from your title because i am stripping u from it. i am the gen of w@rtech nation ur soldier ass doesnt respond to me or address me without sir in there.

You're obviously just a kid and likely new to the game, so I'm just going to ignore your petulante outbursts.

"@$%^" and other swears are also not valid points.

[w@rtech nation]

You're obviously just a kid and likely new to the game, so I'm just going to ignore your petulante outbursts.

"@$%^" and other swears are also not valid points.

first off jack ass if your gonna use big words, learn to spell them right. anybody that knows me "Jerry Springer on 360" knows i am not a kid and have been playing a good amout of time " before first mag"! add valid points or fuck off

[Anna_Wren]

first off jack ass if your gonna use big words, learn to spell them right. anybody that knows me "Jerry Springer on 360" knows i am not a kid and have been playing a good amout of time " before first mag"! add valid points or fuck off

The "E" in Petulate was a kind of side joke to any spanish readers. Sorry if that was a little to clever for you ^_-

Anyway, your 360 name basically says it all: You're just a show to laugh at.

[w@rtech nation]

The "E" in Petulate was a kind of side joke to any spanish readers. Sorry if that was a little to clever for you ^_-

Anyway, your 360 name basically says it all: You're just a show to laugh at.

clever? hardly, it means the same thing in spanish and pretty much spelled the same way. you dont get the joke of jerry springer on psu. its very funny because of this whole psu dating thing and drama thing and weddings.

[Super Noob Stickman]

it doesnt matter when class you are when your arguing with a scrub, if your a good player on any class you will beat a bad player on a top class

[bloodflowers]

i am the gen of w@rtech nation ur soldier ass doesnt respond to me or address me without sir in there.

Quoted for hilarity.

[BIG OLAF]

I think I said this somewhere before, but are all the houses in Wartech Nation made out of cardboard and styrofoam?

[Anna_Wren]

I think I said this somewhere before, but are all the houses in Wartech Nation made out of cardboard and styrofoam?

I'd say it's made out of mime walls.

[BluexRose]

YEA NUCKA wartechers yea son number 1 in tha hood g unghhhhh best class ever haters hatin but dey don't know about my MADD SKILLLLLLLZZZZZZZZZ DAWGGGGGGGGGGGGGG YEAA

If your stereotyping wasany worse you would be dead

[Anna_Wren]

>.>; I managed to kill this thread a while back, let it stay dead :p

[Selphea]

Wartechers have Giresta, so they can necro a thread as well as any other techer =x

[Serephim]

I dont think anyone hates them. They just suck.

[Selphea]

On JP I think ATs suck worse than them now ._.

[stinkyfish97]

It all comes down to play style. Most people have no style in this game, they all use the same weapons to try and put out the highest damage possible. Impressive as damage may be I believe it us equally impressive, if not moreso to stick with a class that is considered inferior by most but that you actually enjoy playing. This game gets very boring when you decide to just go with a class because it is the highest damaging class. Btw Wt is awesome in those /r missions. I still go into those /r missions as a Pt. Most people never played Pt before AotI and really have no concept for actual strategy and gameplay. Personally I prefer to play a difficult class to play in those missions because it makes those missions more interesting. Rather than the strategy always being kill everything as fast as possible with and getting bored, you develop strategies to take monsters down. Some of which you don't get credit for. People can keep saying Pt suck on /r missions and same with Wt but I don't get bored playing this fame because you always have to develop new strategies when playing a more difficult class.

[Orosan]

I personally use probably the most hated class combo: Human Male WT. I always play solo. To me the best part is finding out what's the best weapon for certain situations/monsters. It keeps the game fresh for me. For example I just got recently into twin sabers and I've been having fun with Cross Hurricane. Anxioulsly awaiting if we ever get Buffed Assault Crush for 360.

For a WT in order to be fast in anything you have to use the right weapon for the situation. That's why(IMO)they have so many different weapon classes. For example let's use the boss De Ragnus from The Dual sentinel S3 difficulty. I use this one because some people hate it because is neutral. It takes me 3 combos of Vivi Danga to kill it while soloing using a 10/10 Vishic/c. That's about 20-25 secs to kill it using the whip. If I use any other weapon it'll take longer than that. Much longer if I use something entirely wrong for it. i don't know about you, but killing a boss taht quick while soloing it has to be pretty good. I'm not saying I'm the fastest. Just saying pretty good. And anyway not everybody consider faster=better. a lot of us define best by something else besides speed.

[Anna_Wren]

Vishic/C 10/10 is kinda a cheap weapon though on that boss.
Its the only whip in the game IIRC, (and one of the only weapons) with a 20% boost to Photon Arts and its pretty easy to get. Its basically like having a 20% element against everything with your photon art and it makes it a great whip for small groups or multiple element targets as well.

Also, Acrotecher can use it too, and much to the same effect and quicker.
Personally, I think the versatility of WT is wasted a lot on people who lack the more exotic photon arts like Masei-sou that can greatly assist in situations lacking the proper class.

Finally, I've yet to see another WT with Dizas and Rentis, but lots of AT with it. What, do WTs think that they shouldn't do support if no one else around will do it?

[BlakLanner]

Finally, I've yet to see another WT with Dizas and Rentis, but lots of AT with it. What, do WTs think that they shouldn't do support if no one else around will do it?

The reason that I do not carry them is pallete space and the 36 PA cap. It gets very difficult to load up all those arts and fit them on a pallete, especially if the mission requires multiple weapon elements. It is the same reason that I tend to use megistar instead of the individual buffs.

[Orosan]

Vishic/C 10/10 is kinda a cheap weapon though on that boss.
Its the only whip in the game IIRC, (and one of the only weapons) with a 20% boost to Photon Arts and its pretty easy to get. Its basically like having a 20% element against everything with your photon art and it makes it a great whip for small groups or multiple element targets as well.

Also, Acrotecher can use it too, and much to the same effect and quicker.
Personally, I think the versatility of WT is wasted a lot on people who lack the more exotic photon arts like Masei-sou that can greatly assist in situations lacking the proper class.

Finally, I've yet to see another WT with Dizas and Rentis, but lots of AT with it. What, do WTs think that they shouldn't do support if no one else around will do it?

Which is exactly my point. Sometimes I wondered if the WT hate comes from people who never levelled and/or used the wrong weapons for the monsters. Also, people might be put off that WT can't equip those "glamorous" weapons(Yet. I'm drooling for the unreleased s-rank daggers), which I totally understand. But I'm very happy with what I have and that I don't need stacks and stacks of meseta in order to get 10/10 and 50% gear.

I really don't understand why the Vishic/c is cheap on that Boss. People often choose their classes because of the in game advantages certain classes have over others. So why is it cheap? Is and advantage that whip users have. It's an advantage I have for any multi-target boss or enemy while using a 10/10 50% whip of the opposing element vs weapons that don't hit as many targets.

Finally, I want to mention something about WT vs AT since you brought it up. People often use AT as one of the reasons for WT hate. Mainly the reasons are quicker attacks, higher buffs and can equip s-rank whips. Everybody please understand that I'm not about to knock off AT. That's not what I'm about to say. I'm simply pointing out why it isn't clear cut as everybody says:

For a whip lover like me I prefer WT over AT. Why? Many reasons. Even though AT has quicker attacks, WT has higher ATP. Yes you can buff higher in AT(lvl 50 buff is 8% higher tha lvl 30 buff), but WT can take the Whip PA 10 lvls higher(10% PA increase over AT). Also WT has a 24% ATP advantage in stat modifier at lvl 20 over AT. So basically AT does need higher buffs since they start with lower ATP anyway.

As far as the lvl 50 DFP buff for AT, WT already has a 30% better stat modifier advantage over AT to begin with, so probably the lower buff doesn't affect WT that much.

Also the differences in ATP between a-rank whips and s-rank whips is not that big, specially with the new a-rank whips, and we all know that for striking %>>>ATP. To really see a huge difference in ATP you have to go to the unreleased s-rank whips, but their ATA is so low that I think that even AT with their better accuracy stat modifier and high ata buff will be hitting a lot of zeroes. And if you switch to a better ATA arm unit then the ATP drops rapidly. And let's not forget that it will be more difficult to get those weapons in 10/10 50% form.

One more thing, I really like and need my variety of weapons, and my main reason for not choosing AT over WT was just that. My 17 different weapon classes allured to me more than the AT 11 weapon classes. It gives me more things to hunt. Seriously, I couldn't see myself playing w/o Longbows, Twin Claws, Twin Sabers and Knuckles. And I even haven't gotten into spears yet.

I really think AT is cool. As a WT I would love to be able to use s-rank cards, and have the option to use s-rank whips if I could, and quickness is nice to have. But since I had to compromise in all the things that I wanted, I compromised towards WT.

BTW, very few people read my rants anyway, and they are probably skipping to the last paragraph. So this is my message: Use whatever class you want and enjoy playing. And keep on hating on WT, we'll have the last laugh when buffed Assault Crush arrives(Buahahahahahah-sinister laugh) :) Just Kidding. In reality I don't think we'll ever see buffed AC in our server :( .

[Omega-z]

Yes most cases it's the the Pa cap, I use only one PA for each of my melee there no need for more with WT even with the New PA's here in JP there not always the best since the situation could go against using then and then there's the OP PA's that are hard to get around from not using them. With WT even Race and Gender can reflect what type of PA skills one can use. Masei-sou is great Bow PA but pre-update it wasn't as good and hard to use as WT Now it's awesome and works very well, But before hand the other Ult PA for Bow was better since you could keep pretty close to the Element PA's but saved PA space. WT is the Ultimate front line Crowed controller / Front line support with Tank like Damage absorbing abilities. They the one's that take the heat off others and set the mood of the battle for the other classes like a blocking Setter for the Spiker in Volleyball.

Anna_Wren I do Support others when the is no other Techer in the group or help with it if the other Techer doesn't have some of the other supports and become a front line Debuffer and healer if needed with massive set ups for every one. I even at time run into the line of fire to take damage since I know that the damage is going to be 0 or mild to me com-paired to other which would be worse. Now for Soloing It's different and more challenging I done thing with WT that no other class would dare to do Normally or at all and I've at lived most other classes. WT can Solo almost all of the mission with out any one else's help and with out speed or OP number's in Damage. If WT got a speed boost or thru GAS the WT class would be Extremely broken and way to OP. WT can get the Number's in DPS they can stay up in times with PA's for attacking not walking tho (TD, or others are still slow). WT is a Good Class not Best but Very Good Class.

[Shou]

The most important part is that AT attacks faster than WT. AT>WT even on JP right now.

*Wait until the travel dagger PA comes out*

[str898mustang]

The most important part is that AT attacks faster than WT. AT>WT even on JP right now.

*Wait until the travel dagger PA comes out*

But Wt has the advantage of Assault Crush.

[Shou]

Yes but AT will have a travel PA on par with tornado dance AND will attack faster. If you are a newman AT like me, you also have a few technique attacking options possible because of the increased casting speed.

[Selphea]

Which travel PA? :o

[Anna_Wren]

He means the Sonic spin one. AT might be better in his view, but don't let that PA kid you Shou, its not even remotely able to keep up with Tornado Dance, or the Claw on AF.

[unicorn]

AT is not better than WT whatsoever anymore.

Buffing is useless because everything dies too quick tbh.

[Anna_Wren]

On JP you mean. This is asking about 360 WT

[unicorn]

I know, but people have been bringing up the JP server WT throughout the thread.

[stinkyfish97]

This shouldnt be a who is better than who thread. Each class is designed for different purposes. WT and AT play very differently. Its not how powerful you are but how well you play the game. If your an inconsiderate prick, well than I dont care if you are WT, FM, GM, FT, AT any class, Id rather not play with you. All classes offer something different, WT has a lot to offer and can be fun because you can switch it up whenever you feel like, you not boxed in and boring like FM or MF. Your not always going to use the same weapons.

[JusticeForJake]

Curious as to why there is a lot of hate ( or atleast dislike ) for wartechers? Yeah you can't get your pa's as high, but you have pretty much every option you might need, which I think makes it a good class for solo'ing. Now keep in mind I haven't gotten into end game stuff ( only level 61 ) but from what I see I think its a decent all around type to play.

So curious as to why this type isn't recommended more, and what the reasons are.
Wartecher is a class that alot of people do not choose to play. There is some people that play Wartecher good and run missions just as fast as other classes. Its just getting in the hang of the pallette and pa's is what is normal for every other class.