Occupy Wallstreet?

[Kion]

I'm living in Japan, so I only catch what get's put on the news here. Impressions?

[Dhylec]

It started at WS, then spread to other cities, now worldwide. People must have figure it's not some trivial matter.

[Sinue_v2]

Impressions? Hmm.... wait and see, perhaps? A lot will depend on whether or not OWS gets co-opted by politicos the way the Tea Party was. This is going to be made all the easier now that some of the larger unions like the UAW (http://www.uaw.org/page/uaw-endorses-occupy-wall-street), USW (http://www.usw.org/media_center/releases_advisories?id=0438), and the AFL-CIO have declared their support. I don't necessarily think that they will be throwing their special interest weight around... but Democrat candidates do pay attention to these organizations and what interests them, as they represent a significant voting block. The worst possible thing that can happen (IMO) is for the OWS movement to become too highly polarized to the left in an attempt to shift the center before the next election cycle - and end up becoming just a symbol for entrenched ideologues to hoist their flag. Once that happens, there is little to no chance of opening a productive dialogue between differing political views over the issue at hand. Worse, it may cheapen the whole movement by playing into the narrative that they are copy-cat of the Tea Party funded by power-brokers on the left.

In general, I don't trust large groups of protesters. (beware of stupid people in large groups!) Most of the time they're filled with people who have moral and emotional objections, rather than rational objections, to a topic... and that can cause people to engage in what they see as "necessary evils" to get their point across, or boost the profile of the event into greater prominence as a means of "getting the word out"... and it's almost always counter-productive to the goal of the collective effort. You see it a lot at the G8/G20 summits... and you're starting to see it here as well. For instance, remember those 700 protesters arrested on the Brooklyn Bridge? The ones that the NYC bus drivers union refused to cart away? Yeah, well they weren't supposed to be on that bridge. The police had no intention of having a confrontation with those protesters, and requested that they use the pedestrian walkway to avoid blocking traffic and keeping emergency lanes open. And while, according to one blog (http://erratasec.blogspot.com/2011/10/independent-reporting-of.html), the leaders of the protest communicated this - some elements within the group decided to march right up the middle of the fucking road and of course - others followed blindly. Once the cops blocked the entrances and exits, these fucks were going around passing out cards and having people write the phone # of the national lawyers guild on their hands and arms in anticipation of the aftermath of their attempts to escalate the confrontation.

You don't pick fights with cops and then scream police brutality just to advertise your protest in the media. Not fucking cool.

[Split]

I agree with it. Not the people who are just there to party and provoke police, but the people who are actually there to spread a peaceful message, some of whom are still being oppressed by the police. I've got a couple friends that go to school in Brooklyn that participate whenever they can.

[Keilyn]

The movement is trying to spread an important message to people. A message that is actually important because a lot has happened in the last three years that is enough for people to get upset.....So much that regular people are able to understand it and get mad about it.

America's largest problem is that it is a land where positive thinking has taken over to the point of irrationality. Americans are so afraid about facing reality that they either throw the responsibility to politicians or corporate and religious leaders...(Anyone with power and authority) or try to be optimistic about things.

They spend so much time subjugating each other's negative thoughts that anyone who is direct and critical gets put down and is considered to be negative. Yes, Even making a critical point is negative and gets put down as I live a life of being critical, direct, educated and dabbed in the middle of a lot of problems...

When Optimism fails, people turn to religion as a way of escaping reality. Huddling up in churches, praying to God, hoping another can assume the responsibility of solving every problem.

People just refuse to face reality....


They can't have fun in the real world because there is a law or restriction or too much emphasis on risk and safety, so they go online and play online games where there is some risk to making characters and meeting people online.

They can't improve education and make programs.....so they turn away and they lock themselves in their homes and stay on computers listening to music and logging to social media networks.

People are afraid of saying the wrong thing or doing the wrong thing that they keep their thoughts to themselves and never express themselves which is the worse form of oppression, next to the fact the greatest way to make a slave happy is to convince them that they aren't slaves.

Americans are "afraid" of minorities because minorities with influence and roots from other nations know they don't prescribe to the same crap. The same mantra of thinking. They are afraid they will speak out and turn things upside down......they know they can't get them to shut up, so they take matters into their own hands. Some are empowered, some are afraid....some with good intent, other minorities who spread malice and violence through misinterpretation.

We call this a diversified nation, yet I can look at a map of Boston and point where most people of minority collect themselves in different parts of the city. I can say "Brookline" is where most jewish live, Mattapan and Dorchester is home to most blacks. Irish and Hispanics are around Roslindale...and the list goes on and on.

If you can "Demograph it and remember it correctly, then its not diversity"

I don't believe people are THAT STUPID.

I think people are afraid. They live in fear and they want a better life and since they can't get it, some settle with what they have afraid to not lose any more, while others escape altogether and its a reason why so many exist within the online communities out there, trying to dodge the bullet and make up for a lack of what exists in the real world..


...because truth be told if things were better and feasable for most people out there in the real world and they could really make nice things happen and enjoy things, then they would appreciate it and not gamble so much on the internet bringing them happiness.

Occupy Wallstreet is an important movement and its something is finally occurring.

The best way to really help yourself is to take a real hard look at yourself....and see where you are going and where you have been. I feel sorry for the many who escape reality and then try to convince me of having shame for not being part of the same circle.

The second people realize that governments don't run themselves and you can't just throw a problem away hoping it solves itself and that each person has their own responsibility, that will be the second we will mature as both, people and a nation.....

[Mike]

I'm living in Japan, so I only catch what get's put on the news here. Impressions?
Didn't you catch the "Occupy Tokyo" movement? Oh wait, they didn't really occupy anything. They had a small turnout, small march, and then everyone went home.

[Kion]

Lol! Yeah I did read about Occupy Tokyo. Japan isn't quite to the point where corporations out out of control. They do have a firm grip on the government, but they don't do anything that critically damages the infrastructure. What really puzzled me is that the message of Occupy Tokyo got switched around to banning nuclear power. Nuclear power does have a really powerful lobby in Japan, but after the Fukushima incident everyone is quickly moving towards solar power. Petitioning to end nuclear power in Japan right now is like showing up to the Victoria Secret fashion show and petitioning to see panties.

As for the occupy wall street movement, it really seems like watching history take place. With the police brutality it really reminds me of the civil rights movement of the 1960's. I thought it was weird that the police were taking unnecessarily extreme actions for what have been pretty obviously peaceful protests. Funny story, turns out the banks gave around $100,000 to the NYPD foundation last year. Pretty cheap way to buy out the system when they're making off like bandits with trillions of dollars in bailouts. But that makes this video all the more awesome.


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=z6ZronqIzeI

Also I love the french revolution aspect of it. A lot of people have no idea of what's actually going on. There's this real, "they can all go eat cake" attidude coming from Goldmansachs. Here is a tweet from an over heard elevator conversation; “What are they complaining about? People seem a hell of a lot happier in TGI Fridays commercials than they ever do at Gramercy Tavern.” LMAO! They have no idea what's actually going on do they?

There seem to be two problems in all of this. One is that it seems to be the 99% versus the top 1% (people making over $380,000) when it's really the 99.5% versus the .5%. There are tons of actors, business managers who are more than willing to pay higher taxes to help out their country. It seems confined to a lot of people on wall street. Even then, I read Bloomberg a lot and the dominant opinion on there seems like there are people who actually do their jobs and are pissed off at idiots like AIG making tons of money from selling toxic assets. So rather than making it a "have" versus "have nots", it seems like they should be focusing on calling out the specific people who are responsible for this mess (it's pretty obvious who a lot of them are).

The other problem seems to be that the group has no demands. Wall street needs to be regulated. There needs to be a split between investment and commercial banks. There need to be limits on pay. And there need to be limits on how much risk can be taken per how much capital is actually held. And over the counter derivatives need to stop. It's not rocket science and the countries that have those checks in place have had healthy economies. Since Occupy Wall Street hasn't really made their demands clear, politicians are side-stepping the problem. Obama came out like an idiot and pointed at the $5 ATM fee that people have to pay. That's probably annoying (i generally take out a weeks worth at a time to avoid those fees), but it's not the real issue. I'm mostly worried that this will be used as some political tool to press as an issue for the election in 2012 making a bunch of promises before going back to business as usual (ie. fucking the tax payer over).

[BIG OLAF]

Friend of mine showed me this picture via Facebook a few hours ago:

[spoiler-box]http://theelitist.net/wp-content/uploads/2011/10/JPMorganNYPDDonation.png[/spoiler-box]

Look like the masters are throwing their dogs some treats for their efforts.

[Randomness]

Friend of mine showed me this picture via Facebook a few hours ago:

[spoiler-box]http://theelitist.net/wp-content/uploads/2011/10/JPMorganNYPDDonation.png[/spoiler-box]

Look like the masters are throwing their dogs some treats for their efforts.

I've yet to hear any reports of large-scale egregious actions by the NYPD.

For the most part, I think the occupy protests are doing good, if for no other reason than that they're letting people vent their frustrations safely. I've yet to hear any kind of overly hateful rhetoric out of them so far...

[HappierWorlds]

TC, tell me about the Yakuza. Are they stll very popular? Those SEGA games are onto something.

[McLaughlin]

Youtube vid here.

As I understood the situation, this guy was freaking out because officers in the area were being violent.

Problem was, a few blocks from where he was losing his mind, all the marchers were only feet away from the police barricades, and someone shouted "let's take out the barricades!" and they rushed the cops. At that point it's no longer a peaceful protest and the cops need to use force to get the situation under control.

Right message, wrong reason for the outburst. On the other hand, it's pretty obvious that the only reason he wasn't cuffed and incarcerated thirty seconds into the video is because he was wearing his military uniform and looks like he was chiselled out of the side of a mountain.

[Sinue_v2]

Problem was, a few blocks from where he was losing his mind, all the marchers were only feet away from the police barricades, and someone shouted "let's take out the barricades!" and they rushed the cops. At that point it's no longer a peaceful protest and the cops need to use force to get the situation under control.

I think people need to understand also that while the job of a police officer does naturally attract certain "prickish" personality types, alot of those officers are good, honest, individuals who are tasked with upholding the law in what could potentially be a very dangerous situation. To make matters worse, many of these protesters are enhancing an antagonistic atmosphere either by taking their frustrations out on whom they see as a representative of the government/corporations... or intentionally trying to elicit a violent response. In such a chaotic atmosphere, it's easy to misjudge a situation as being far worse than it actually is and respond disproportionately.

While I don't see that as an excuse to let police officers off the hook for excessive use of force against nonviolent protesters, I also can't buy into the narrative of these officers being a bunch of brutish dogs of the state seeking to oppress and assault dissenting voices.


Friend of mine showed me this picture via Facebook a few hours ago:

[spoiler-box]http://theelitist.net/wp-content/uploads/2011/10/JPMorganNYPDDonation.png[/spoiler-box]

Look like the masters are throwing their dogs some treats for their efforts.

That's a bit misleading. As I understand it, the 4.6 million dollar donation was already in the works months before the Occupy Wall Street protests even existed, and were only part of a much larger philanthropic initiative which gave assistance to various educational, military, infrastructure, and health care institutions as part of their "The Way Forward" customer outreach campaign. Granted, most of these "philanthropic initiatives" come in the form of reducing interest on student loans and funding clean energy research and start-up companies and what-not... but there are also some genuine donations, such as $250,000 to the Wounded Warrior Project, 1.75 million in Haiti Earthquake relief, and $195,000,000 raised in bonds to finance the expansion of Cook Children's Health Care facilities in Fort Worth, TX.

And of course... many of these are tax-deductible donations. So basically, we got to pay for them.

But, I'm not saying they're not stuffed shirt assholes epitomizing corporate greed. All I'm saying is that these donations occurred back in 2010, and were part of a larger initiative. The idea that JPmorgan is buying off the police seems to be little more than a myth generated and perpetuated by those who don't want a little things like truth and facts to get in the way of their righteous outrage.

JPMorgan 2010 Corporate Responsibility Report: The Way Forward (PDF) (http://www.jpmorganchase.com/corporate/Corporate-Responsibility/document/2010_CR_AR.pdf)

This doesn't look like the picture you posted! (http://www.jpmorganchase.com/corporate/Home/article/ny-13.htm)

[BIG OLAF]

That's a bit misleading.

Ok. I didn't say it was fact or anything. Just something my friend posted on Facebook. Not like I was going to go cross-reference it with other stories; I don't care that much. I'm just glad that this whole movement is going on, and not just the one on Wall Street. All of them.