Guntecher Advice

[PSW4L]

Are striking weapons even worth using on a guntecher? They have a PA cap at lvl 10 so I don't see too much use for them.

What's a good weapon for killing bosses? I've been using longbows. Maybe shotguns?

I'm mainly using crossbows and longbow because I need to level up those PAs but I think I could use a little more variety.

[Selphea]

Are striking weapons even worth using on a guntecher? They have a PA cap at lvl 10 so I don't see too much use for them.

You can use GAS to get up to level 20 skills. Lv20 Cyclone Dance can hit around 5000 damage x 4 hits x 4 targets with the right weapon. Lv12 Buten/Hikai/Shunbu isn't bad either if you want to save your weapon GASes for guns.


What's a good weapon for killing bosses? I've been using longbows. Maybe shotguns?

Double Saber with Lv12+ Absolute Dance or Cyclone Dance, or Dagger with lv12+ Shunbu. Yes, sounds stupid I know. Blame Sega for not giving GT grenades.


I'm mainly using crossbows and longbow because I need to level up those PAs but I think I could use a little more variety.

Shotguns.

But don't play GT. It's a terrible type. You will /wrist when an AF with Renzan kills 3 mobs with a 15k hit and you're struggling to cross 1.5k per bullet on a shotgun. Then you will /wrist again when you realize AF is better at killing mobs at long range as well because of Retsuzan.

[Midori Oku]

But don't play GT. It's a terrible type. You will /wrist when an AF with Renzan kills 3 mobs with a 15k hit and you're struggling to cross 1.5k per bullet on a shotgun. Then you will /wrist again when you realize AF is better at killing mobs at long range as well because of Retsuzan.

Yeah, if 360's Acrofighter was broken.

[Slidikins]

As someone who enjoyed playing RAmarl in a supportive way in PSO, what options are there besides Guntecher in PSU? Everyone seems to look down on the Guntecher, but that seemed to be the natural equivalent.

Also, my character is a Newearl.

[Akaimizu]

Guntecher is the main RAmarl type in the game, just that they didn't make them as strong as the RAmarl. They're kind of (SEGA afraid to make RAmarl like they were in PSO) nerfed.

I also picked Guntecher for pretty much the same reason. To tell the truth, there is no real other equivalent for a RAmarl type that represents it better than Guntecher. Being one of the few that stuck with Guntecher the whole time, it's the play style that had me stick to its guns. In general, every class has potential to do well, but just don't expect to be the DPS monster quickly. It requires a lot of time building your PAs.

If you like the play style, the best thing is to say, "Screw the haters" and play it anyway. I certainly did. Accomplished some pretty nice stuff with the class. And unlike all those folks min-maxing for classes that get more easy buttons, the challenge of pulling off great stuff keeps the game exciting for much longer. Mainly because, especially on the way up, the Guntecher is a technical class. Protranser was supposed to be the main technical class, but Guntecher has always fallen into that category, too. But be warned, you will likely spend a lot more time raising PA levels as a Guntecher, just to support that 1 single class than just about anybody else. Why? Because of its name sake, you are doing bullets and techs, two of the main PA groups in the game that take the longest to level. However, the good news is that anybody jumping into the class today would spend a whole lot less time leveling them than when I started. Both of those two groups, as a whole, used to level a whole lot more painfully slow, in the past.

It requires great palette setup strategy, good speed, and the classic Guntecher/RAmarl multi-role (at a whim) gameplay we've come to love.

I've played a number of classes that are *stronger* per-se. But they tend to be an overall easier game experience, require less strategy, and yet bring that whole "tougher to stay awake" thing for me. As a Guntecher, more of it feels like you need to keep in mind the battlefield as if you are looking at it from an overhead perspective, when you work the multi-role aspect into the equation. It's like being a Gunner, who can fall back on decent techs when enemies resist your bullets, with the ability to be a combat field medic.

That, is why I've been Guntecher for life in PSU, and the PSU-related games like (Phantasy Star Portable 1 and 2 (maybe infinity later)). Though in PSP2 and Infinity, there is no such named class as Guntecher or RAmarl, but you can make a class setup that is RAmarl-like.

But my Guntecher time (all circa 2000 hours or so of it) was sort of a labor of love for the play style, and to a degree, even with some frustrations here and there, it just felt like if there was a class that the game's difficulty was balanced for, it was that one and perhaps Wartecher, too. When I went out of that and played the simpler classes, it just felt like something was missing. The multi-role juggle just didn't seem to happen as much, nor be as needed. Speed-downing your foes is satisfying, don't get me wrong. I have a character or two, as well as plenty of classes I already built up that can do so just for stress relief. I just can't really stick with just that play style because I'm just doing a lot less with them.

It's like having a fighting game using a character where you can spam a special move or super to win against the AI versus one who has to switch between a number of moves, toggle between modes and fight styles, perform more defensive maneuvers, and offer a nice mixup. With one, you run through the game; the other, when you run through the game, you look a whole heck of a lot nicer doing it from a technical standard, and you feel a heck of a lot smarter for it. I always love it when a good plan comes together. The main time, you don't feel that way as much, is when you run through a level unfamiliar to you due to you not formulating a level-specific strategy yet. Once you do, it's on. Forming those strategies is a good part of the way to keep the grind in PSU fun. With the power classes, it pretty much comes down to Time attack strategies with that class. GT, like few others, has to wrap that whole survivability, and greater attention to using your breadth of selections even when you aren't Time Attacking.

[suj3]

Are striking weapons even worth using on a guntecher? They have a PA cap at lvl 10 so I don't see too much use for them.

What's a good weapon for killing bosses? I've been using longbows. Maybe shotguns?

I'm mainly using crossbows and longbow because I need to level up those PAs but I think I could use a little more variety.

Dagger + Shunbu will do the trick. Count on it..

[Akaimizu]

Oddly enough, the only melee thing I typically fell back on is Rising Strike. Partly because of both its decent damage, that it hits multiple points on a creature, and that it also flips/staggers/knocks over creatures for which you want something that hits hard and gives you the best chance to escape. Especially since you are rather relatively squishy as a Guntecher. I used to use it on those Moatoob Alligators Drua Goas. However, the Guntecher got major Tech Boosts from Sonic Team, in the past couple or so years. So now you can toss rocks, or nozdiga at them to punch past their bullet defense and still do a couple or so thousand points of damage (when those techs are raised) on them without having to get so close. Sonic Team's Guntecher boosts have changed their game quite considerably. Back in the day, you needed a Rifle or Bow and Damage of Time Status effect bullets to take down the Goliaths knows as Bill De Vears. Nowadays, you can toss the Nosdiga and down them, in seconds, without the epic fight of the past. A bit disappointing since you now feel like you way overpower the beasts instead of being the resourceful little animal that is outsmarting the big, dangerous, and powerful foe.

Shotguns are pretty decent boss killers, for a GT, depending on the boss. Some bosses you just kind of have to go to a different gun because you don't have the opportunity to use it. Outside of Shotguns, the GT is pretty ill-equipped on multi-point ranged targeting attacks like those with Grenade Launchers. And since you are A-rank limited in shotguns, you'll probably eventually settle for a Madam or a Van Brella maxed to 10 grinds. Your other weapons, on bosses, will be for the many times the boss doesn't present to you a good target shotguns can reach, or that they are doing a pattern that is only going to make life difficult for you dealing with shotguns and their uncomfortable recovery times after a shot. Believe me, there are plenty of situations for which using a shotgun will reduce your maneuverability enough to make you *have* to start taking on hits if you use it then. Hits you don't want your frail self to take. They are your double edged sword. Your general damage dealers, but with a cost. Rifles, due to distance, and such, allow you some better overall maneuverability, and the rest of the Guntecher main arsenal of guns allow way better than that.

Note: Crossbows and Shotguns level faster than other guns.

Leveling the bullets to max in many guns, including twins and crossbows, will give you the ability to poke hard (just not your hardest) while being completely on the move. Bosses with targeted weaknesses are often Rifle territory, though you can also use twins. Bows, on the other hand, ignore bullet resistances and can be good on bosses who move around a lot and make hitting the weakness locations a bear to hit because they move around more than Stevie Wonder moves his head in performance if he took speed one day. (Looking at you White Dragon). These are rare cases when choosing the *Best* weapon for a weak spot ends up taking longer than using a (not as best) weapon that can keep plugging decent but not best damage since you kill your "wait for opportunity" time.

So in general, use Shotguns on a boss whenever you have the opportunity to do so and actually get all the bullets to hit them. (The shotguns, due to the way their bullet hitboxes work, can often double-hit a single point in a mob. In general, whatever numbers you see (when you get it to 5 shots) you can often take the single number, multiply it by more than 5 as typically (especially close shot blasts) a bullet or two will hit two damage points so you're really doing more like 6-7 or maybe 8 times that damage). You use other guns or spells when the situation is too hairy or poses either an unopportune or positional disadvantage to using shotguns. Crossbows are mini-shotguns which allow you to fully move, but lose extra damage potential by their lack of ability to double hit damage points. Good weapons, though. You use Crossbows to distribute status effects as they actually are just about the best Status Effect distributors in the game. The bad, they only have SE3 max under normal conditions. So you can't hit them with the ultra power DOTs and stuff like rifles and Bows can. Other the other hand, for creatures that can get a Status effect level 3, you'll land it on them faster with a crossbow than any other hand-held weapon in the game. Almost guarranteed within the first couple of seconds. Only traps can land faster, but Guntechers are a little limited on which they can use, so you're forced to use weapon-based SEs for some of them. Still, I like the burn damage from crossbows better than applying it via a G-trap. That is, unless I'm strategically using it to damage a tough group within a level in which my first encounter with them I want to do as a quick run by and get to a safe distance as fast as possible.

[Omega-z]

I would Listen to Akaimizu on this one, since he's one of the few true GTM's here and know's his class. I know what he means and agree with him. The Melee is only to escape form foe's and give yourself the distance you need to use your guns/tech's. Even tho Buten/Hikai/Shunbu are nice but they are not for power. So going Lv12 with it is waste of Gas, I would keep is fast and simple with first part of the PA to escape with. If you try to do dmg with them you open more dmg to yourself and not focusing what then class is. Cyclone Dance or Tornado Dance only and for escape again. Tornado little more since it can get you the distance you need with GT. You could use Cyclone Dance for damage but don't expect much with it and going 11-12 is only 5% atp 1% ata boost for more pp, Which you could use for gun/tech's. And buy/hunt Nyoibo (JP) and for 360 not sure what they have other then the normal 9*. But I agree with Akaimizu with upping Rising Strike since it would give better Dmg but helps with escape again.

With the new bullet upgrades on JP , GT is going to have better spread dmg and hit things better then BF, they may not need Grenade Launchers now. Keep in mind Melee = Escape/Stall , Range = Power/SE , Tech = Resisted Foe's/ SE Support. And everything else what Akaimizu said to be the best GT you can be.

[Akaimizu]

Thanks and funny you should say that. To know the Guntecher class is to not know them lots of times. It's like Sonic Team consistently trolled GT players with their descriptions and updates. Seems like they often did stuff to the Guntecher and the results for how best to use the class were different than Sonic Team's intended goal nearly every time. Only in the last couple of years were the updates more in line with powering-up their intended weapon usage. (In previous years, the best GT were never the ones they S-classed in. Useful, yes, but not best. To a smaller degree, it's still that way.)

Being wrong, and experimenting until you find the true Guntecher strengths were a frustrating series of "You thought you knew, but didn't" growing up. Of course, you can always play for fun since most classes are strong enough to. And playing for fun includes playing the class as Sonic Team intended, not how they turned out. Why would you do it? Well, because playing the GT with the intended role is the most fun, and generally why someone (reading the GT description) would pick the class. Fortunately, especially with all the fixes, they actually managed to eventually make playing a GT that way, still effective. Just not the most effective if you're going for GT-based time attack.

Also, take note that my descriptions are sort of a compromise with the build you shoot for the endgame and what you shoot for growing up. You'll hear a lot of strategies that only really work on your end game since the balance of weaponry and such change based on their PA power levels. While it has definitely speed up, these days, to max out bullets and key techs can take a long time to do. This is what you'll be doing for quite a while and are key to strategies. Thus why it's very easy that someone can tell you something that is currently bad advice for you because you won't be able to make use of it until many hours of play later, so the strategy doesn't help you at all for the moment.

Even to the point that certain weapons with higher PAs in certain elements will trump your "better" weapon all the way until you finally hit that *magic* PA level you need to get. Thus the growing pains of dealing with it. However, that also means you'll see a great variance in best gameplay styles happen as you grow. The early GT often puts things together for survivability which is not the build you go for speed. Particularly if you are not a Beast GT. Still, for GT it's all about the strategy. They are one of the classes here that can be played with the highest tactical strategy, and the game still has time when that is demanded of you. And thus, you won't be in the line of all the folks yelling they made the game too easy and boring. It's why I often feel that the GT is one of the few classes the game is truly balanced towards. The keen balance between the feeling of power over some monsters and the "Oh snap! I'm in trouble here!" aspect of gameplay (even towards the end game) which I'm pretty sure, Phantasy Star players want to keep the game from seeming boring.

Alas, this has also caused me to have a severe backlog of other games I need to play, and thus I've taken quite the break from PSU to catch up and just get other games in the cycle. Unlike some, regardless of fun, I can 'burn out' if I keep plugging at the same game all of the time. Even though, I do play like 3 or 4 other Phantasy Star Online games interchangeably. PSZ, PSP2, Blue Burst, to name a few. Add to that, a dozen or so other Dungeon Hackers. (I just love this kind of gameplay, as you can see)

[Akaimizu]

Still, for the overall best endgame advice, Desturel is often the one to listen to. He may not be a GT main, but he's put more consistent hours specifically to PSU than just about anybody else here on the site. He's either the intended or unintended sage of the game. Basically, he doesn't have my issue of burning out on one game, so he can better focus on just PSU. My knowledge is spread across a various number of Phantasy Stars and dungeon hackers and thus certain minute details are scattered across the cosmos and thus I can't break down the numbers, timings, and such to the minute details he can on just PSU. He's often corrected me on certain stuff because I had no idea the game changed once I got that best weapon at Max grinds and that final level of bullet to max, to change the game for me. And yeah, sometimes on a Guntecher, you can't see that true potential of something until you do the arduous thing and truly max it completely. Down to the last level and last grind. Across all the classes, his endgame knowledge is pretty scary. Though I know he doesn't always go for it, he's also a pretty good sage of time attack for a given level. What to hit, what to pass up, to trim those classic seconds off your clock.

[Omega-z]

I totall agree Akaimizu, I think that most balance classes were the Hybird ones, Now it's pretty much GT these days since the others are getting OP now with PA's, GAS.....etc. But you can still keep them how the game intended them to be and keeps them fun and not running the everlasting C run. I love the survivability classes more so, even tho the other are cool too. I run Cast WT as my Main for over the course of the life of the game. The funny thing is, looking back on playing other PS games I always went that route. With PSO I had a Hucast but I used more tech type weapons in my arsenal, like S-Red blades to buff myself since Casts didn't have tech power back then. Now in PSU Casts do the same thing, they use tech type attacks thru their weapons so no change at all. lol I guess I'm a sucker for Cast Melee/Techer's lol. Yeah it so tru what you say, with everything changing. What work at Lv. 30 is not the same as Lv. 100 to Lv. 180. I even found on the PSO forums here a post that said the same thing about going to fast and missing out on the enjoyment of the game. I can tell you that the Hybird classes have the most appeal out of the others, My wife played others and didn't seem right to her but she's loving GT right now and I don't think she's going to change. I do see ppl use the class incorrectly but that's how they roll with it and I'm not going to ruin their fun. I'm like a inbetween of you and Desturel; Played PSOep1&2...+..etc,PSOep.3 C.A.R.D, PSU Vanilla, AotI, PSZ, PS, PS2, PS3, PS4 and pretty much non-stop with PSU with some breaks here and there. But my draw back is I don't draw on TA'ing even tho it's a skill in it's own right. I was the highest WT in the First MAG event with the most kills back then but man I felt like I was going to die of being sleep deprived lol. But anyone who can truly show the knowledge of their class at all levels of play to the greatest detail with the way it's supposed to be played like and how they can overcome their trials is a master of there class. You are a "GTM" good sir, I hope there will be more like you.:):rappy:

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