Mass Effect 3 demo is out.

[Blue-Hawk]

And all I can say is color me unimpressed. Single player story isn't a story. Multiplayer is severely lacking. Looks like they learned nothing from the ME2 debacle of dumbing down a game and turning an RPG into another mindless shooter.

Say what you will, but I didn't like it.

[McLaughlin]

Were you expecting the entire campaign in the demo? They cut most of the dialogue options from the missions to avoid spoilers and they added back some of the stuff they cut from ME1 (namely, the weapon customization, which you can't access in the demo, and the varied power bonuses).

As far as ME2 being a "debacle"... that's your opinion. ME has a 91 on Metacritic, ME2 has a 96. If you loved collecting six thousand copies of the same worthless armor and weapons and turning them all into omni-gel (that you couldn't carry because you were perpetually at capacity even though you burned it on every lock in the game just because you could) after every firefight, that's your prerogative. ME2 was head and shoulders above ME1, in my humble opinion.

The only thing I wasn't in love with was the new shield/health look. Couldn't be assed to check out the multiplayer.

[Randomness]

Were you expecting the entire campaign in the demo? They cut most of the dialogue options from the missions to avoid spoilers and they added back some of the stuff they cut from ME1 (namely, the weapon customization, which you can't access in the demo, and the varied power bonuses).

As far as ME2 being a "debacle"... that's your opinion. ME has a 91 on Metacritic, ME2 has a 96. If you loved collecting six thousand copies of the same worthless armor and weapons and turning them all into omni-gel (that you couldn't carry because you were perpetually at capacity even though you burned it on every lock in the game just because you could) after every firefight, that's your prerogative. ME2 was head and shoulders above ME1, in my humble opinion.

The only thing I wasn't in love with was the new shield/health look. Couldn't be assed to check out the multiplayer.

My main gripe with ME2? All classes became nothing more than run and gun with the occasional skill shot out. It dumbed down combat to where you basically had one skill you ever fired off, because it wasn't worth using the others. (Adept: Use warp, because once their barrier and shield and armor is down and you can singularity or something fun, they're two bullets from dying anyways!, etc. Adept in ME1 was fun because you could go to town throwing your enemies around like ragdolls. None of this 70+% of enemies have magic anti-grav devices!)

If it wasn't for the asinine cooldown system that removed all class distinctions (I'm not joking, all classes basically play as set ammo at start of level, use your nuke when it's up, and then fire bullets at stuff while it cools down. The occasional case where you have Miranda warp your singularity or something to clear trash.) In Mass Effect 1, Soldier played like an invincible tank (literal tank. Moving armored gun platform!), Adept dealt most of their damage with Warp while locking down enemies in fields, and engineers spammed damage skills and opened locks. I dunno, but in ME2 nothing felt special about most of the classes. Especially when the best option in 90% of sequential playthroughs is Reave, so... all gameplay becomes Reave, shoot, reave, shoot.

If ME1 had ME2's handling of weapons (except still with the mods, just you find one instance of each mod, and then upgrades, which means by the end of the game you have maybe... 12 things in each slot? No need to sell crap!), it would be perfect.

Yeah, I hate ME2's handling of skills to death.

[McLaughlin]

My main gripe with ME2 was that it oversimplified skills and leveling. Leveling was stupid. Kill that other enemy? Why bother? It's worthless, and burns ammo! (Of course, the levels were designed so you practically HAD to kill everything, which kind of killed exploration)

I consider both games to have their merits in the end, since ME2 changed some things for the better and some for the worse.

There wasn't much you could skip in ME1 either. The incentive for killing the "optional" enemies in ME2 is that they'll eat you alive on Insanity. There was only one way through any area to begin with in either game. Exploration amounts to scrounging around after everything is dead in either game (or driving the Mako... *shudder*).

Streamlining of the skills made sense to me. They got rid of the redundant ones and made the upgrades to the remaining ones more meaningful. What's the difference between getting to +100% Overload damage in four upgrades as opposed to ten?

I mean, if we're talking about simple gameplay, how about the infinitely firing Assault Rifle of doom, and the Immunity cooldown that was shorter than its duration? I loved ME1, but ME2 was just so much better to me. I can't even play ME1 now, it feels so archaic. I just mod new saves with the choices I want.

Edit: The one thing I will potentially give you is that having all powers on the same cooldown is a little lame. I can still get through most levels on Adept on Insanity without firing my weapon though.

[Randomness]

There wasn't much you could skip in ME1 either. The incentive for killing the "optional" enemies in ME2 is that they'll eat you alive on Insanity. There was only one way through any area to begin with in either game. Exploration amounts to scrounging around after everything is dead in either game (or driving the Mako... *shudder*).

Streamlining of the skills made sense to me. They got rid of the redundant ones and made the upgrades to the remaining ones more meaningful. What's the difference between getting to +100% Overload damage in four upgrades as opposed to ten?

I mean, if we're talking about simple gameplay, how about the infinitely firing Assault Rifle of doom, and the Immunity cooldown that was shorter than its duration? I loved ME1, but ME2 was just so much better to me. I can't even play ME1 now, it feels so archaic. I just mod new saves with the choices I want.

Edit: The one thing I will potentially give you is that having all powers on the same cooldown is a little lame. I can still get through most levels on Adept on Insanity without firing my weapon though.

Virmire had a ton of stuff you could skip in the assault phase, actually. I actually had to search for how to enter each of the ways into the base. I'll grant you that much of the game IS linear, but it's still less so than 2.

And personally, one aspect I like of RPGs is putting together skillsets that lead to absurd shenanigans. (This is in part why I love the Etrian Odyssey series, which encourages all sorts of combo stupidity... there's some truly ridiculous things you can do, one of which is a truly insane build in 2 that revolves around raising max HP as much as possible and then sitting on 1 HP, with basically zero defense.) So the way that Soldier can be nearly invincible nearly all the time at max level... I LOVE it. It's not like a max level Adept can't lock the final boss down... (It's by far the easiest way to kill him, as opposed to suffering hits while waiting for him to stop). In Mass Effect 2, the game offers basically no room for such exploration of skills...

[McLaughlin]

The problem is that it wasn't hard to do either of those things, and they both broke the game, for every class. Two Frictionless Materials were all you needed to make anything fire indefinitely. Maxed out Shock Trooper was all you needed to keep Immunity on indefinitely.

In theory there was more room for specialized builds. In practice all any class ever boiled down to was was AR spam. I would say they do a better job in ME2 of differentiating classes with their defining abilities (Adrenaline Rush, Cloak, Tech Armor, ect.). All I ever had to do in ME1 was walk around on any class with my Spectre Rifle with the trigger taped down. In ME2 I tank though everything on Soldier with the Revenant and Adrenaline Rush. I hang back with Cloak and dome people with the Widow on Infiltrator. Shared cooldowns are kind of lame, but most have a short enough cool down that it's not really a hindrance.

[Heskett]

Virmire had a ton of stuff you could skip in the assault phase, actually. I actually had to search for how to enter each of the ways into the base. I'll grant you that much of the game IS linear, but it's still less so than 2.

Seeing that Kirrahe was alive in the demo and then reading this had me wonder... I've played through ME1 about a dozen times and never knew that Kirrahe could survive. I always thought it was a scripted event. haha.

[McLaughlin]

Seeing that Kirrahe was alive in the demo and then reading this had me wonder... I've played through ME1 about a dozen times and never knew that Kirrahe could survive. I always thought it was a scripted event. haha.

I think Kirrahe dies if you don't do enough of the sidequests to hinder the Geth. I've actually never had him die on me. It might also be tied to who you save. I think Kirrahe is stationed with the bomb, so if you go to the tower he might die without whoever you left to arm the bomb. In the ten or so times I've gone through ME1, I've always gone back to save whoever is arming the bomb.

[Heskett]

I think Kirrahe dies if you don't do enough of the sidequests to hinder the Geth. I've actually never had him die on me. It might also be tied to who you save. I think Kirrahe is stationed with the bomb, so if you go to the tower he might die without whoever you left to arm the bomb. In the ten or so times I've gone through ME1, I've always gone back to save whoever is arming the bomb.

Kirrahe goes with the person that gets trapped in the tower. Everyone of my games ends up with Kirrahe being dead. I must be missing something, somewhere. I also go back to save the person arming the bomb, minus the one time I went to the tower to see how it was different. He still died anyway.

[Slidikins]

I think Kirrahe dies if you don't do enough of the sidequests to hinder the Geth. I've actually never had him die on me. It might also be tied to who you save. I think Kirrahe is stationed with the bomb, so if you go to the tower he might die without whoever you left to arm the bomb. In the ten or so times I've gone through ME1, I've always gone back to save whoever is arming the bomb.

Kirrahe's survival is directly tied to the number of "sidequests" you do while approaching the base on Virmire afair.

[Outrider]

It's weird to hear you guys complaining about how all the classes feel similar in ME2. If anything, that's more true with the first Mass Effect for me simply because they made each class more limited and focused on specific roles in ME2.

Vanguards dive headfirst into battle and take out enemies at close range. Adepts can either do crowd control or (like in my case) just flatten enemies without ever firing a shot. I love it.

It's true that generally every class has a focus on aggression, but the nature of the game kind of forces this setup. While ME2's campaign progression is more open-ended than the first Mass Effect, ME2's missions are significantly more linear. Of course, this means we wind up having quests and missions with far more focus and attention to detail than before. I'm perfectly happy with that trade-off.

I will say that I just finished a new playthrough of the first Mass Effect, and I did enjoy it a lot better this time through. So maybe it just has to do with the fact that I've put in more hours on ME2 than ME1. I dunno.

I haven't had a chance to play the ME3 demo yet, but I'll try and get to it tonight. I also have to get around to actually pre-ordering the game so I can get all my useless DLC.

[Slidikins]

(Disclaimer: these are my opinions) Gameplay wise, ME2 was superior to ME1. I played every class to max level in each game (in ME1 with builds that utilized all 24 free paragon/renegade points) and things were just better all around. Builds and powers were trimmed down but still made a difference. Gameplay varied a lot, and weapon selection made sense (aside from ammo types) and didn't fill your pack with junk all day. Collecting minerals were a drag, but still better than combing every planet in ME1 for some rare resources.

On Insanity (was that what it was called?) I was forced to learn the game more than I did in ME1. In ME1, I picked a class and two members that complemented it and rolled through from start to finish with that trio. In ME2 it helped to find an equipment loadout that suited my class, consider what I was fighting on my mission, and stack my team up against that foe. Lots of Mechs? Everyone needs Overload. Krogan? Ditch the overloaders, get some Biotics in there or something. Mercenaries? Fuego it up, mix it up. But don't expect to have Jacob by your side throughout the game if you want to be efficient at killing.

The problem with ME2 was story. There was no real antagonist that was on the level of Saren. Saren had backstory. Saren had clear motives. Saren was imminent danger. Collectors? They just do what they do, which isn't good, but there was no sense of urgency. Also, daddy issues. Everyone had daddy issues. Miranda especially, but Jacob had issues with his pops. Tali liked her father but her quest also revolved around him. Jack had no parents to speak of, but her upbringing was troubled too. Mordin was the father (in a sense), and Grunt also needed parental guidance. Garrus was Garrus, so there's nothing to hate there... but aside from DLC characters it was Daddy Issues, The Game.

Aside from Lair of the Shadow Broker. That DLC was damn good.

Looking forward to ME3, but from previews it seems like more "disregard story, add more shooting."

[Akaimizu]

I like the demo, so far. I mean, I'm not expecting the whole thing to jump at me and fill me out on all the details since that's all meant for the final release. This is just a taster, so I'm not judging it on story yet, though it was nice to hear the team again. Gameplay-wise, not a big difference from ME2 yet. Redesigned level-up screens and such, I see. Perhaps I'm too excited to see this trilogy come to a conclusion as I absolutely loved ME 1 and 2.

[Serephim]

Im gonna get the demo. Im not into western RPGs in the slightest, but this game and Skyrim look genuinely exciting for all the reasons i dont like western rpgs.


Does one need to play Mass Effect 1/2 before jumping into 3? I thought it was pretty stupid how ME2 was released for PS3, yet they never ported the first.

[Slidikins]

Does one need to play Mass Effect 1/2 before jumping into 3? I thought it was pretty stupid how ME2 was released for PS3, yet they never ported the first.Probably not, the game will most likely provide another Interactive Comic or summat that brings you up to speed.

But....

ME1 and ME2 had rich worlds and Codex entries that added depth to everything. I think they're worth actually playing through once for the immersion quality alone.

[Outrider]

I'm sure you could have fun playing ME3 without playing the earlier games, but one of the best features of this series is being able to carry over your decisions & consequences from one game to the next. It really adds a whole other level to each game.

I played through the ME3 demo last night and thoroughly enjoyed it. I'm going to try running through it again with a few other class options, but my Adept run last night was a lot of fun.

I gotta be honest: When the Reapers first start showing up on Earth it felt like there was a weight in the pit of my stomach. After everything that's happened in ME1 and ME2, it felt genuinely awful to see the Reapers actually make it to Earth and just start wrecking everything.

[Serephim]

Played the demo. Egghh...maybe Bioware RPGs just aren't my thing.

It's probably because i basically grew up on JRPGs, but it just feels like Mass Effect is just...unpolished? The graphics are nice but the talking (from the main character at least) feels terribly static. The animations are nice but some look like they dont fit. You get choices during conversations...i don't know, people complained about FFXIII-2 using the same method, but i honestly cannot tell a single difference from the way ME uses it and the way XIII-2 used it.


Gameplay wise...maybe im just ignorant, but I thought Mass Effect was an RPG? I was expecting something in the format of perhaps Fallout 3 (which did RPG Shooter very decently, IMO), but instead i got something that felt like it kind of wanted to be a shooter, but was on the fence about the choice. You're stuck in an awkward pose, the moves feel somewhat unresponsive, but worst of all, i kept looking for a Lock-on button but apparently there isn't one. Now, i can definitely mold myself to the aiming controls (im not anal about dumb shit like that), but the game just didn't feel like an RPG in the slightest. It just felt like a somewhat halfassed shooter with a few wonky magic moves. (I chose Adept for my starting class. Perhaps that was a mistake?) And people complain about the cutscenes in Final Fantasy, but they're way better animated and the dialogue seems far more interesting. I know my bias is probably 80% of me not knowing the story behind Mass Effect. But that doesn't really change how boring the cutscenes were.




But most importantly, more than absolutely anything, this demo was flat to me because of the sheer amount of playing that I didn't get to do. I can definitely understand a cutscene heavy intro, but the pacing is absolutely terrible, and it feels like the things i SHOULD be able to do (like shimmying across a pathway while having a conversation, or simple exploration with talking) were taken from me. I understand telling a story, but damn. It's much better to put the player in control of the high-octane situations instead of just watching everything get blown up in a cutscene. I was expecting to be able to explore the ruined area of the meeting room after i got up, but it was just more talking and shit until i got outside, followed by a pretty boring tutorial, although this was probably because i was trying desperately to find the button that gave me free reign of my player without that terrible "ARM STICKING OUT COMPLETELY TO SHOOT AT SOMETHING THAT ISNT THERE WHILE EXPLORING" pose im forced into apparently the whole game.




I dont think it's Western RPGs, i think its just Bioware RPGs, or at the least just Mass Effect. It feels like it's a halfway effort in pretty much everything. I know that KotOR looked like a genuinely interesting RPG because it was interesting in design, but Mass Effect to me just looks like a collage of everything i HATE in videogames (Terrible animation, bad framerates and uncreative FPS mechanics).




I didn't finish the demo before turning it off. But my friend said that i probably hated it because i approached the game from the wrong angle, and that it's mostly just a FPS with long cutscenes rather than an actual RPG. I'll try to give it another shot in a few seconds. He also told me that he personally hated ME1, but ME2 was where he got interested in the series. I really want to get into a western RPG that isn't fallout (game was amazing but the story was useless) or Skyrim (never played it, but it's the first Western RPG that doesn't have absolutely shitty animation. I dont have it because the PS3 version apparently is brokesauce.)






I really want to give this game a decent shot. I've been meaning to get into a modern western RPG, but it seems like the only one that can hold me past the first few minutes has been Fallout 3, because it actually balanced cutscenes and gameplay correctly...the story just had no direction whatsoever. I downloaded the demo to that R.A.G.E. game. I was REALLY getting into it, until i got to the combat part and SURPRISE! -- Another shitty ass First Person Shooter setup. I mean seriously, no FPS engine has come close to touching the polish and immersion of a Halo title, due to how it merged the storyline/world and the gameplay into one package, so im really tired of RPGs coming half way just to add a few optional item setups into the mix without adding ANYTHING immersive gameplay wise. Where's my limb targeting, or weapon stripping, or combat skills and shit?



Im TIRED of aiming for the head god dammit.

[Heskett]

The problem is that you're comparing the Mass Effect games to a demo that purposefully had dialogue and other things ripped from the demo to prevent spoilers in the full game. The demo also didn't showcase any of the exploration that was present in the earlier games. Can't call it a demo if they give you the whole thing now.

[Serephim]

Yeah, i know. Like i said, I know most of my problems with the cutscenes probably have alot to do me not knowing what on earth is going on. My biggest gripe with the game actually comes from gameplay though.


I actually bought my buddy Mass Effect 2 for his birthday a ways back. I'd ask him if i could borrow it, but unfortunately 360's live about as long as a vietnam machine gunner.

[Nitro Vordex]

I actually bought my buddy Mass Effect 2 for his birthday a ways back. I'd ask him if i could borrow it, but unfortunately 360's live about as long as a vietnam machine gunner.
So, three years? That's how long mine's lasted. If you've got a computer that can run it (at 60 fps, mind you, it's just prettier), play it on PC. It's just much better.

[Serephim]

mine lasted about 11-13 months.

Absolutely shitty hardware, i must say.

[SStrikerR]

Mine's lasted since I got it for christmas what, 3 or 4 years ago now? 1 faulty console I understand, but if it happens to people more than once, I say it's just their own fault. I 've left mine on for days at a time, logged a lot of hours playing games, and I've had no problems.

Anyway, it's just a demo. You can't expect it to be like the full game.

[Serephim]

If i've learned anything about the Xbox 360, it is not the person's fault.


I've treated all my game consoles the exact same, and i still have every single one in the same condition i bought it in, barring my Sega Genesis since my dipshit cousin stepped on it and kind of screwed up the video connector so i have to tape the cord just right or i dont get sound.


Ive had my PS3 for much longer than my Xbox right now. My Playstation 3 has never eaten any of my videogames before (nor has my Playstation 1, Playstation 2, Gamecube or Sega Dreamcast), and it has not "light of death'd" me.


It also didn't cost my dumb ass money for rechargable battery packs or an eventual $15 charge port for my controllers either because they were too stupid and cheap to roll with rechargable battery packs and USB ports like it was actually 2006. It also wouldnt have cost me $100 for a Wireless attachment. Granted the PS3 wireless capabilities blow, but hell, it gets me timely demos and lets me play Tekken/Blazblue just fine, so i really could care less.



I loved my Xbox when i had it, but a few weeks after having my PS3 i realized what an awful piece of hardware it was. I think i know ONE person who has had no hardware issues with his 360. My xbox etched records into two of my games before it died.

[McLaughlin]

The multiplayer turned out to be a lot more fun than I was expecting.

Stasis Bubble is hilarious.

[Kent]

Prior to trying this demo, I had played Mass Effect on my brother's computer for maybe ten minutes at most. He wanted me to try it, and despite that BioWare has a reputation for making really boring stories and hugely-uninteresting situations in RPGs (like Neverwinter Nights, which was only good for the module-creation tools into it - the actual campaign was thinly-veiled "here, go fetch these four things. Good, onto act 2... Do it again!" - the first expansion for the game was good, but by a different developer, and the second expansion was by BioWare again... and was boring as hell), I like to give new games a fair chance. After all, developers change sometimes, so maybe they got better at making non-crap.

Well, something came up and I had to leave. So yeah, I haven't tried it again since.

I decided to try the Mass Effect 3 demo because eh, why not? The single-player wasn't really all that interesting, though it may be due to my unfamiliarity with this game's universe and all. The combat seemed slightly awkward and clunky throughout it, but that was to be expected.

And then multiplayer got unlocked. It's surprisingly fun. The awkwardness of the controls and combat subsided after getting used to it, and the TCG-like system for finding useable equipment and new character classes is an interesting idea, if a bit RNG-heavy. The gameplay is pretty run-of-the-mill Horde mode stuff, which is not bad (the Gears of War 3 horde mode is still a lot of fun - especially when coupled with the tower defense-ish aspect they introduced), but the objectives they add into some of the waves and the extraction at the end serve to mix it up pretty nicely. You know, encouraging people to move around out of their heavily-entrenched position in an easily-defensible spot on the map.

The dynamism between classes is rather interesting, too. The Vanguard is a very different approach to combat from what I'm used to seeing in third-person shooters, and it's actually pretty fun - and very different from another class I got around to trying (human Engineer) in almost every aspect except for the fact that the weapon weight system affecting cooldowns means that it's best to run with either a pistol or an SMG if you want to be as effective as you can be. I would imagine something like the Soldier class would be less-reliant on cooldowns and could afford to take in heavier weapons, like assault rifles and shotguns.

Though I wouldn't be one to pick it up at launch (especially with this detestable Origin nonsense that EA is putting into everything), the demo is actually pretty fun in multiplayer. I've heard that the demo has about half of the unlocks as the full game for the multiplayer mode though, which seems like the demo has a disproportionately-high amount of the multiplayer content in it.

[Serephim]

Well thats two for two with multiplayer. Maybe i'll try it.


Honestly, i cant really get into Mass Effect 3 because its single player feels entirely too cheap to be a single player game. It kind of strikes me as a game that's online multiplayer though, simply by the way its animated.

[amtalx]

The board revisions and redesigns have helped with the 360's reliability issues, but the first couple years of suicidal units were due to manufacturing flaws. The main cause of failure is broken or fractured solder points due to heat. Normally this wouldn't be an issue, but MS switched to a lead-free solder because of directives from the EU late in the design phase. Unfortunately for MS, they chose a type with a melting point that was too low. While these general hardware failures are on MS's head, other failures like scratched discs are usually due to user error.

On topic... I really enjoyed the demo, even though it felt incredibly uneven. That's always the risk with making a demo for an RPG. Luckily, ME3 can survive well enough on it's combat mechanics to avoid be a complete waste of time. I have no doubt that my issues with the pacing will disappear when I can play the proper campaign. Leaping around in the story with no context won't be a problem.

[AC9breaker]

I was super surprised with how fun the Multiplayer was. I was ready to rage on it but was surprised how much I enjoyed it. Love how you can customize your weapons now like you could in ME1. I'm really hoping the story is more like ME1 as opposed to ME2.

In ME1, things felt natural especially with the flow of he story where as in ME2 everything felt too deliberate. The combat was a huge improvement over 1 but was still shitty. The thing that keeps me interested in the game is the story. I love the story of the game and Sheperd as a character whom I decide how to be. Renegade 4 lyfe. Im a little bit upset though cause my previous saves where on PC but I don't have access to it or won't be able to get it for quite some time. So I'm thinking of buying 2 again for PS3 and playing through to get me ready for 3.

[Serephim]

multiplayer is pretty fun.


I HATE the unresponsive special abilities though, and also the load times are atrocious.


Other than that, it feels like Gears of War except less gray and in the future. And i love gears.

[Zyrusticae]

^- Load times seem to be more a function of connection, at least for me. When my connection is really poor to whoever the host is it takes forever to "load" (re: sync with the host), but otherwise it's pretty fast and clean.

So, I wasn't actually all that interested in the game (even though I mostly enjoyed the first two games) until I tried the multiplayer part.

Damn, this stuff's addictive. There's a constant, never-ending sense of progress. You really notice when you start picking up the big upgrades. My vanguard, for example, is now a moderately effective tank due to being able to fully recharge her barrier every 3 seconds while doing massive damage to whoever she's charging. (The damage in silver and gold is simply too high for this tactic to be viable there, unfortunately.) Also, pistols are ace in this game.

So many subgoals thanks to the medal system (or whatever they call it). Trying to get 15 melee kills and 20 headshots ASAP just for the XP boost is pretty much a fact of life for me now.

I'm actually thinking I should avoid this game, at least until I have more free time to devote to it.

[Slidikins]

I won't have time for this game for a good while, so I'm actively avoiding the multiplayer aspect of the demo. I'm also conflicted: the game runs like crap on the 360. Slowdown issues, awkward lightning (in my opinion) and clunkier controls than what I'm used to. I want to get it on PC (especially since I'm buying a new one soon) but I really dislike Origin. I don't need another Steam on my computer. So... I don't know what platform I'm getting it on, or when.

My first playthrough the demo I went with Adept. It went well, really well, and I enjoyed it. Second time through I went with Sentinel but didn't enjoy it as much. The cooldown on Throw during part 2 was massive. Like, you'd use Throw and then be on cooldown for the rest of the fight. I could use singularity on Liara 2-3 times before I got Throw back. Seriously? And that was with 4 levels in it.

[Outrider]

Just a heads-up: the Xbox 360 Collector's Edition is sold out pretty much everywhere, so if you've decided you want it after playing the demo, you'll have to do some searching. GoHastings claims to have some in stock so I ordered one, but we'll see what happens when it comes time to actually ship it out.

I enjoyed myself with the 360 version of the demo, but I decided to try the PC demo after Penny Arcade's Tycho recommended it. I wound up immediately getting a Quarian Engineer with my Recruit Pack, so I played a few matches with that character. It was a blast, although I haven't been very successful with using the turret ability. (Also, mapping your powers to the number keys is just a terrible, terrible default setting. I'm sure all the hardcore RPG and MMO fans are comfortable with it, but the pacing of Mass Effect is more akin to a shooter, and as a result the controls should be a little more in line with that.)

The multiplayer is really surprisingly good. I find myself wanting to go home and just play a round or two of the multiplayer. It's not something I expected to enjoy this much.

[Slidikins]

(Also, mapping your powers to the number keys is just a terrible, terrible default setting. I'm sure all the hardcore RPG and MMO fans are comfortable with it, but the pacing of Mass Effect is more akin to a shooter, and as a result the controls should be a little more in line with that.)

I've used number keys in several shooters from Quake to Team Fortress, usually to swap directly to one of the many weapons I'm carrying. I think, with time, you won't find it as foreign a concept as you think.

[Outrider]

I've used number keys in several shooters from Quake to Team Fortress, usually to swap directly to one of the many weapons I'm carrying. I think, with time, you won't find it as foreign a concept as you think.

Shooters have traditionally used the number keys to switch between specific weapons, sure, but that's a case of selecting new equipment now and again versus constantly activating an instant ability (it's also almost-entirely inferior to the scroll wheel option for the most part, but that's not really relevant.)

Using the number keys as quick access to spells and abilities is really something more common in PC RPGs and MMOs and wasn't problematic due to the slower pacing of those games. As a result, it made some sense when the first Mass Effect came out due to its gameplay having many similarities to a standard PC RPG, but playing the Mass Effect 3 demo made me realize how silly it is that they'd keep the default bindings as they were.

(Plus, we could get into the whole fact that a keyboard is, quite frankly, an awfully inefficient gaming input device compared to specialized hardware, but that's a debate for another time and place.)

But anyway, this is all moot, as the PC version will almost certainly allow you to rebind the keys to whatever you'd like them to be.

[Serephim]

Yeah the multiplayer is very, very welldone in this game. It almost reminds me of Phantasy Star Online in terms of your constant feeling of character progression.


But the single player is boring as fuck.

[McLaughlin]

No one gets to complain about button mapping until Southpaws get a scheme that doesn't suck harder than a black hole.

I mean really, Modern Warfare/Halo/Battlefield, what the fuck?

[Outrider]

No one gets to complain about button mapping until Southpaws get a scheme that doesn't suck harder than a black hole.

I mean really, Modern Warfare/Halo/Battlefield, what the fuck?

Ha - okay, I think you've got me there.

[amtalx]

Just a heads-up: the Xbox 360 Collector's Edition is sold out pretty much everywhere, so if you've decided you want it after playing the demo, you'll have to do some searching. GoHastings claims to have some in stock so I ordered one, but we'll see what happens when it comes time to actually ship it out.


This was the case with the ME2 CE too. I had a hell of a time tracking one down, but the artwork on the tin was well worth it. In order to avoid the same thing, I pre-ordered the ME3 CE pretty early...last June.

[Kent]

No one gets to complain about button mapping until Southpaws get a scheme that doesn't suck harder than a black hole.

I mean really, Modern Warfare/Halo/Battlefield, what the fuck?
I used to play with a left-handed setup for quite a while, just from being so used to aiming with my left thumb, due to the analog option on controls being solely on the left side of controllers for so long since they started becoming standard. A few games that didn't allow you to play with that setup were unplayable for a long time, just due to muscle memory, and games that don't allow you to play with inverted Y-axis for aiming are still unplayable.

Luckily, those aren't as much of a problem any more because developers have started to have a bit more sense than in the past when it comes to control schemes.

Unfortunately though, not enough sense to make the right stick button do something sensible in a lot of cases. The only real options are quick-turn and melee. If I'm already having to aim with the left trigger, just use the analog for that to zoom in with my scope, rather than taking up a button where my thumb will almost always be in a fight, for a function that generally only a handful of weapons will ever have.

[Outrider]

This was the case with the ME2 CE too. I had a hell of a time tracking one down, but the artwork on the tin was well worth it. In order to avoid the same thing, I pre-ordered the ME3 CE pretty early...last June.

Yeah, I wasn't aware. I didn't even think I was going to pick up ME2 at launch until a few days before the release date.

Ah well, you live and you learn. My major concern was missing out on the extra character, but it was just confirmed that the additional character will be available as DLC for people with the standard edition of the game, so no big loss if I miss out on the CE.

(Although if they aren't sending me the CE, I'd certainly like to know sooner rather than later to make sure I can get a standard edition at release.)

[McLaughlin]

I used to play with a left-handed setup for quite a while, just from being so used to aiming with my left thumb, due to the analog option on controls being solely on the left side of controllers for so long since they started becoming standard. A few games that didn't allow you to play with that setup were unplayable for a long time, just due to muscle memory, and games that don't allow you to play with inverted Y-axis for aiming are still unplayable.

Luckily, those aren't as much of a problem any more because developers have started to have a bit more sense than in the past when it comes to control schemes.

Unfortunately though, not enough sense to make the right stick button do something sensible in a lot of cases. The only real options are quick-turn and melee. If I'm already having to aim with the left trigger, just use the analog for that to zoom in with my scope, rather than taking up a button where my thumb will almost always be in a fight, for a function that generally only a handful of weapons will ever have.

In Halo 3, it's a nightmare. No only is there only one Southpaw variant (and it's of the Default scheme), the way it's done is absolutely ridiculous. All they do is swap the triggers, so LT fires and RT throws grenades. You still have to hit RB to reload, and LB to swap grenades. Then, if you pick up a second gun to dual-wield, it reverses the triggers. You'd think that LT would fire the right gun and RT would fire the left, but no. RT fires the right and LT fires the left, and RB reloads right, LB reloads left. When you drop a gun, it goes back to LT firing, RB for reloading. It's such a mind fuck that I just avoid dual-wielding.

In Modern Warfare, when you take the Southpaw scheme, you get totally fucked on any scoped weapon. They swap triggers, but they also swap the function of L3/R3. So now when you're scoped in you have to hold your breath with the same stick you're trying to aim with. Good luck with that. You also essentially need to stop moving to knife anyone.

It's fairly evident no one has a Southpaw on the design team to try these things out and tell them how stupid the implementation is. Nevermind the fact that I would prefer to be able to remap the face buttons to the D-Pad and the D-Pad functions to the face buttons, so I could also swap the sticks around, but I'd settle for properly reversed trigger/bumper functions, and a Southpaw equivalent for every control scheme.

[Rashiid]

Gonna play the demo this weekend, but I'm rather surprised some people found ME2's combat boring. Maybe because I actually enjoy FPS's. ME1's powers were pretty stupid outside of buff / restorative ones. Even though ME2 had fewer, they were far more useful imo.

[.Rusty.]

Whats the deal with people picking vanguard and never pressing the y button?

[Zyrusticae]

"Y" button?

Care to explain what that does, for those of us who don't play with Xbox 360 controllers?

[Outrider]

"Y" button?

Care to explain what that does, for those of us who don't play with Xbox 360 controllers?

The 'Y' button is the default mapped power... so I'm guessing for Vanguards that would be Charge?

[Zyrusticae]

Heh. Can't say I've noticed, then. But I play a Vanguard, so I'm spending too much time charging around to pay attention to my teammates.

It's worth noting that there are a lot of situations where charging is actually suicidal, and basically impossible to use in Gold difficulty (where charging into the fray gets you instantaneously killed more often than not). That being said, the fact that it can (with upgrades) fully recharge the biotic barrier makes it an essential tool in any do-or-die situation. Now if I could just do something about that 3-second cooldown...

[McLaughlin]

What weapons are you carrying? I messed around with my Human Vanguard for a bit, and just roll around with a Carnifex, Charge > Nova > take cover/Charge. Hilariously effective, even on Silver. I don't play Gold on Vanguard so I don't know how that works out. The cooldown seems long, but it starts to count down before you even actually charge.

[Kent]

Y button is the "default" ability. For a Vanguard, this is Biotic Charge.

Biotic Charge causes you to snap to a target, dealing damage to it and restoring 50% of your max barrier. Until you're a sufficiently-high level and have light-weight weapons from upgrading them, you're best off with either a pistol or an SMG while playing a Vanguard, because it's absolutely crucial that you get your power cooldown as low as it can be (once you're a high level and have well-upgraded weapons, you can switch to a Katana and still have a very high power recharge rate). Also, if your final upgrade to that ability isn't the one that makes it recharge your barrier by 100%, you're doing it wrong.

On Silver, it is incredibly effective to Charge -> Shotgun blast -> Nova -> Repeat on targets. Nova does not trigger a cooldown (because it expends your barrier to deal a lot of damage), and can be skipped if you need the barrier for survivability. You can also use the travel time of Biotic Charge to buffer a Heavy Melee if a target is still standing after the initial hit (like Centurions). Because you've probably invested a significant number of points into Fitness (and neglecting Shockwave), which is imperative to this sort of character, you'll probably have boosted melee damage.

I put a couple points into Shockwave on my human Vanguard, and I can use it to stunlock Atlases... But it's ultimately inferior to Biotic Charge + Nova unless you absolutely need to be taking cover (like defending the extraction point, or if you need to be within hacking range of an objective).

Of course, this is all for the Human Vanguard. I have no idea what's up with the Drell Vanguard (or if the other Vanguard is even in the demo). I'm also kind of confused as to why there isn't a Krogan one, since Wrex appears to be one in the main game series from my understanding... And from my understanding, they're pretty durable and tanky anyway. Maybe a Krogan Vanguard for multiplayer would've been too powerful?

[Rashiid]

Am I missing something? I thought the difficulty levels were:

Casual
Normal
Veteran
Insanity

What's this Gold/Silver stuff?

[McLaughlin]

Multiplayer. Difficulty tiers are Bronze/Silver/Gold.

[Rashiid]

Oh okay. Every night I tell myself "I'm gonna try the demo tonight" I keep thinking "that's time wasted towards Symphonia." ; ;

[Kent]

...Krogan Soldier is insane.

Rage, the skill they get instead of Fitness, has basically all of the buffs that Fitness has... Except it also boosts what's called Rage mode. With at least one point in it, if the Krogan kills three enemies with melee within 30 seconds, he enters Rage mode, which gives as a baseline bonus, 20% reduced damage taken and 50% bonus melee damage. The rank 4 and 6 bonuses make you choose between getting more melee damage and an even bigger bonus to melee damage during Rage (with the rank 6 one making it so you only have to kill two enemies, rather than three), and bonuses to the both your health and shield as well as extra damage reduction during Rage mode.

Fortification is nice - it reduces incoming damage while active, and for a short time after deactivating it (which is what triggers cooldown, similar to Tech Armor), you gain... yet another substantial melee damage boost, which can also be increased further On top of this, they get 750 starting health and 1000 starting shield (compared to 500/500 for human characters). It's pretty crazy.

But, you know, it's also really satisfying being able to punch off a third of an Atlas' health at once. Or one-shotting a Phantom with a heavy melee attack.

[Rashiid]

When has the Korgan race on either Mass Effects not been broken? xD

[Kent]

I wouldn't know, I haven't played them to any meaningful extent.

[Rashiid]

Ah, yes the Krogan in ME1 and ME2 is usually the later/last member you get, mainly because he cannot die. I mean, he can, but his health regeneration is ridiculous and any close combat results in a charge that's a one-hit kill except on Insanity. (regular enemies, of course). I'd expect nothing less in this one.

[Randomness]

Ah, yes the Krogan in ME1 and ME2 is usually the later/last member you get, mainly because he cannot die. I mean, he can, but his health regeneration is ridiculous and any close combat results in a charge that's a one-hit kill except on Insanity. (regular enemies, of course). I'd expect nothing less in this one.

Nah, in ME1 Liara is the last party member to show up. You get everyone else before leaving the Citadel. That said, yes, Krogans are pretty awesome endgame for their insane toughness.

[McLaughlin]

Grunt is also one of the first four members available to you in ME2. Wrex was broken because Immunity was broken. Grunt was broken because of his metric tonne of health and Fortification.

[Rashiid]

First playthrough I waited a bit to unlock him because I was scared to die xD Then after a bit I remembered "Wait, this is a video game. SAVE -> UNLEASH DESTRUCTION.

[Randomness]

Tried demo.

Holy shit Asari Adept is stupid. Stasis basically turned 90% of the enemies in the demo into target practice.

When you're using a scope heavy pistol, it basically became free kill mode. Stasis>Headshot>Repeat. Even the god damned phantoms fall victim to it (three hits to kill, so the stasis breaks before they die, but the recovery animation is slow enough to finish em) The only enemies in the demo I couldn't kill blindfolded with this combo were Atlases and turrets. And I have rockets for Atlases. Turrets... are stationary and stupid, so they're merely tedious.

Do multiplayer unlocks carry over? Because that would be nice...

[Kent]

Asari Adept is indeed incredibly powerful. Stasis + Carnifex (don't use a scope on it, it's unnecessary - go with magazine upgrade and high-caliber barrel) = you win against anything except Atlases and Turrets. For those, cycle between Warp and Throw.

Atlases still take a good beating to take down, but the Carnifex is just ridiculously-powerful. You can take down an enemy turret in a few shots easily. For groups of enemies in stasis (because if you max out Stasis and don't get the Stasis Bubble, what the hell is wrong with you?), I prefer to toss out a Throw just for the biotic explosion's AOE damage - since its cooldown is so short, I can use Throw on one enemy in Stasis and then another at the other enemy, adding up to quite a lot of AOE damage from the explosions. It's even better with three enemies at once.

Asari Adept is easily the most powerful class in the demo for killing normal enemies, just because of its crowd-control and the fact that it can even disable Phantoms completely. Spec yourself for Stasis Bubble and maximized Biotic Detonation damage from Throw and the Expose upgrade for Warp, and you'll be just crazy - especially if you have another character that can use Throw (like a human Sentinel) to create those biotic explosions everywhere when you use anything.

[Randomness]

The best part is, by only carrying the Carnifex with you, you get like a 200% power regeneration bonus. And there's no excuse for missing, so you REALLY shouldn't need more ammo than that (besides ammo is plentiful, and warp/throw/melee do enough damage if by some crazy circumstance you're out of ammo).

Also, the Asari's movement is awesome, with the biotic dashes instead of rolling... and the heavy melee... no techblade for her, she just cheats and uses Nova... without draining her barrier.

Sadly, it looks like they turned off the multiplayer today. Even though release is tomorrow. :disapprove:

[McLaughlin]

I hardly ever even fire my pistol. Stasis + Throw spam is hilarious and auto-Stasis's the enemies near the explosion. I usually only fire it to drop the barriers on Phantoms before I detonate them with Warp.

I never unlocked the Carnifex in the demo; I was stuck with the Phalanx (which is decent on its own). Would have made dealing with Guardians on my Engineer a lot more straightforward.

Don't think demo unlocks carry over into the retail version. Would have been nice, but I never expected them to.

[Randomness]

I hardly ever even fire my pistol. Stasis + Throw spam is hilarious and auto-Stasis's the enemies near the explosion. I usually only fire it to drop the barriers on Phantoms before I detonate them with Warp.

I never unlocked the Carnifex in the demo; I was stuck with the Phalanx (which is decent on its own). Would have made dealing with Guardians on my Engineer a lot more straightforward.

Don't think demo unlocks carry over into the retail version. Would have been nice, but I never expected them to.

Well, they were easy enough to come by anyways.

And yeah, the Carnifex is really good against Guardians. You can fire a precision headshot through the gap in the shield and that will wipe out almost all of their health (or even kill them with the barrel upgrade).

Honestly, I tried sniping, but after using a modded Carnifex, I was horribly let down by the rifles - they lack the close range ability of the Carnifex, and even the stronger ones can't one-shot the tough enemies, making me feel a scoped Carnifex is outright better than sniper rifles (plus, lighter weight means more powers). It's pretty OP. Best gun in the demo, by far.

[McLaughlin]

Sniping is hilariously effective on Infiltrator. With the Widow, I was four-five shotting Atlases (Atlasi? Atlas? Whatever) with Cloak spam on Silver. Turian Soldier is probably well-suited to it as well, between Marksmanship and the headshot damage bonuses they get. On my Krogan Soldier I just ran around with the Avenger X spamming Carnage. Also hilariously effective.

[Randomness]

Sniping is hilariously effective on Infiltrator. With the Widow, I was four-five shotting Atlases (Atlasi? Atlas? Whatever) with Cloak spam on Silver. Turian Soldier is probably well-suited to it as well, between Marksmanship and the headshot damage bonuses they get. On my Krogan Soldier I just ran around with the Avenger X spamming Carnage. Also hilariously effective.

I agree that it's effective, but it leaves you much more vulnerable to getting jumped than the Carnifex does. Ultimately, that's what got me about sniping - so long as I had the rifle out, I could not deal with getting jumped if I didn't have cloak available. That said, it sounds like the Widow is far stronger than what I had unlocked (a different single-shot rifle), since I don't think I quite had that kind of damage.

[McLaughlin]

The Widow completely overshadows the Mantis and Viper. It pierces armor and Guardian shields, and dwarfs both the other rifles in the demo in terms of burst DPS. It weighs a substantial amount more than either, but its utility easily offsets that.

For comparison's sake, here's a spreadsheet with all weapon stats (https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet/ccc?key=0Aor1WdVV3kD6dGw1SlNDUzFjODlheGl5a3JLdXZZV Xc#gid=0).

[Randomness]

Holy shit. There's a pistol even more brutal than the Carnifex?

And I see what you mean about the Widow.

Now I just have to wait until 11 PM...

Edit: GAH 10 minutes. Only going to be able to squeeze in a quick hour of multiplayer I think, but oh well.

[Zyrusticae]

Me, I'm very happy with the Predator (starting pistol), as its sustained DPS is just outrageously high.

What's funny is that the shotguns actually have less burst than the pistols in that spreadsheet. Makes me wonder...

[Randomness]

End of prologue:

Joker: Cavalry has arrived!
Me: Who needs cavalry? (Import save=level 30 adept at prologue. Enemies with no defense get tossed around like rag dolls)