PSO2 is Free to Play with Cash Shop

[Griffin]

This will make alot of pso/psu players mad most likely, I mean, cash shops are terrible, there will be imbalance and with it being F2P bots and everything will be everywhere on it. Bad move in my opinion.

Great way to doom-say!

[Xenobia]

I mean they could do same such as Guild Wars, they simply charge for add ons (and without addon... unable to log into server),.. and will release a lot of it. No need cash shop nor anything else. But we already had that discussion a year ago, so im not gonna repeat. Its easy to create a solution in term they want to execute a different approach. However, the stuff they like the most is to charge without moving a single finger... not sustainable.

Just for the people who are so terribly worried about theyr economics and theyr income equality, which in fact did never exist. (for that kind of stuff, heaven is the right place to go ;) ).

[Mike]

GW2 has a cash shop :wacko:

[Griffin]

It's all semantics, really. People don't like to hear "Cash Shop". It's just a store where you buy stuff with real money. >:U

[Xenobia]

Well, my account is a cash shop in some way. I buy my gametime (guardians license to hunt). But in some term that behaviour can go much further than that. But im to lazy to explain, EVE Online would be the best example for it. The difference is, the account is a forced cash shop (turning closed access into open access). While other "shops" are not forced and may not hinder my ability to play. Although, they may (its still possible) not offer gametime (in term of open access a premium guardians license) but they will offer other useful goodies. Best example on that is kinda "Perfect World" and in term GW2 got it... its another example.

I do not view that stuff in a narrow minded manner. My main concern is to make that game available to everyone, not just the ones able to use credit cards, post payment-card locks, phone cancel-calls (making it as hard to cancel as possible), constantly pay for it and what else. Its not even possible to play offline, there is simply no mode anymore and many people even support that out of theyr mostly self centered view (it doesnt hit me so i dont care others). While at some point the servers will completly shut down, no matter how much been paid. On the other hand a support that is unfortunately very low on any aspect, making it barely worth to pay for using such bad conditions. Thus resulting into a game with user-hostile shape, if that is in the interest of the majority then we indeed seems to be a weird world. Not even sure why people care for economics to much on a game that usualy might be over in 5 to 10 years. Main priority is the fun we have together at its active gameplay, not always caring items, economics or other stuff. Simply to enjoy it without to much attachement on specific ingame-matters. No one should be forced to step out of it just because of wealth matters. I kinda believe, often the ones who cant contribute are the ones who can contribute the most, but in another term. The cash matter, it can be solved with many different approaches, that is certain.

[buri-chan]

It's not "Free to Play". It's "Open Access". It's not a "Cash Shop". It's a "Revenue Enhancing Device".

[johnwolf]

I mean they could do same such as Guild Wars, they simply charge for add ons (and without addon... unable to log into server).

^ this is a horrable idea and practice. it STOPS players who DON'T or CAN'T spend money on the game. Microtransactions would be cool but if you are going to make it FtP then you need to make the FREE content huge and expansive and FEEL like a compleate game. when the consumer feels like it's a good time to switch to a pay style they will. you should NEVER force a player to pay. it will, most likly, stop them from playing the game. While this isn't the best example runescape FtP world is huge and has excess to a LOT of content and there is so much more for members. several times i was tempted to JOIN the membership. i never felt presured, i could enjoy my self, and i had MANY options. sega should follow runescapes example of how microtransactions and other things. maby limit PVP play, there is many ways you can do it right and still give a good FREE experiance. i'd rather have the FtP because i fall into the Can't Pay line.

[Xenobia]

I find it a good idea because we know what we PAY FOR. Those who cant pay simply have to wait until they find the possibility to pay. But thats indeed a huge compromise toward 2 factions. The one that is in need of something to cover expenses and the other who simply enjoy to make use of a service. Anyway, most likely, when done well, those micro transactions could be successfull by itself, i totaly agree on that.

But we clearly have to split the payment stuff into 2 separated matters:

-Developed software: That matter is payed initialy and for addons
-Cost for keeping up a server: I dont see it as something huge, doesnt take to much servers. A single server in theory can host up to 2000 active player... tendency rather increasing.
I think that can be fully covered by those micro transactions. People tend to access heavely used servers, so its more important to have a few powerful ones.


It's not "Free to Play". It's "Open Access". It's not a "Cash Shop". It's a "Revenue Enhancing Device".
Well, im not used to those descriptions.

Open Access not Free to Play.

Well i think your words would sound more accurate because its not entirely free.. We still would have to cover the initial cost, but a true F2P such as Perfect World is totaly free to play. The game can be downloaded for free, even the initial cost is free. So i get what you mean and im gonna try to separate. I usualy would separate that matter but people simply are used to call it "F2P".

Revenue Enhancing Device

Well that sounds a bit to high-toned. Finally people still consider it as a cash shop or something like that. But i think it can be of advantage to use more accurate words because the issue is that the stuff we get out from it could be gotten in 2 different ways. Either by gameplay, or by cash. Thus resulting into more than only 1 possible income.. making words such as "cash shop" rather a frontal hit from a truck, instead of a well placed Katana strike.

I may correct it because i think its correct to be more sensitive and call it in the most accurate way possible.

[Griffin]

I'm just relieved there are costume-only gatchas, because I couldn't stand stocking up on EXP, Drop Boosters, etc when I want the vanity stuff.

[DerpiestShazbot]

I think the choice to go F2P was the right one.
On top of that, giving PSO2 Vita and mobile phone versions will help it get some exposure too.

If this comes stateside (and I really hope it does) I already plan on spending real money in-game just to show my support for Sega bringing it over here and going with the F2P model.

[Shadownami92]

In terms of that worry about bots...How on earth would that really work? I mean, it works for basic auto attack MMORPGs because it's all about monsters re-spawning in and area and selecting a target and just continuously hitting auto-attack.

I don't know how easy it would be to really do that in PSO2 where you have to set up a quest, which may have random level generation with varying monster spawn points, and the possibility of getting killed in the process since it would be hard to really script an external program that would be aware enough to dodge, heal, attack and then pick up loot and all that.

[NoiseHERO]

In terms of that worry about bots...How on earth would that really work? I mean, it works in for basic auto attack MMORPGs because its all about monsters re-spawning in and area and selecting a target and just continuously hitting a button.

I don't know how easy it would be to really do that in PSO2 where you have to set up a quest, which may have random level generation with varying spawn points, and the possibility of getting killed in the process since it would be hard to really script an external program that would be aware enough to dodge, heal, attack and then pick up loot and all that.

Bots, the gold selling ones.

And they're actually real people sometimes.

Just paid to sit there for hours spamming/killing lvl 1 monsters.

[•Col•]

In terms of that worry about bots...How on earth would that really work? I mean, it works for basic auto attack MMORPGs because it's all about monsters re-spawning in and area and selecting a target and just continuously hitting auto-attack.

I don't know how easy it would be to really do that in PSO2 where you have to set up a quest, which may have random level generation with varying monster spawn points, and the possibility of getting killed in the process since it would be hard to really script an external program that would be aware enough to dodge, heal, attack and then pick up loot and all that.

It wouldn't be nearly as hard as you think. ESPECIALLY because enemies can respawn on the same map... You could probably just run back and forth between 2 areas and kill weak little enemies over and over.

[Rizen]

In terms of that worry about bots...How on earth would that really work? I mean, it works for basic auto attack MMORPGs because it's all about monsters re-spawning in and area and selecting a target and just continuously hitting auto-attack.

I don't know how easy it would be to really do that in PSO2 where you have to set up a quest, which may have random level generation with varying monster spawn points, and the possibility of getting killed in the process since it would be hard to really script an external program that would be aware enough to dodge, heal, attack and then pick up loot and all that.
If you are familiar with Dragon Nest, that game had quite a few bots and wasn't auto target nor had monsters respawning. Details of how they worked I am not sure of, but it was effective enough to had massive amounts of them degrading the market.

[Griffin]

If you are familiar with Dragon Nest, that game had quite a few bots and wasn't auto target nor had monsters respawning. Details of how they worked I am not sure of, but it was effective enough to had massive amounts of them degrading the market.

That's Nexon, though. It's a community of predominant wayward players who don't rally up to voice their opinions on what needs to be quelled. In short, most really don't care.

I'm sure the PSO fanbase is more intelligible (not to mention many of us are old-heads).

[Rizen]

That's Nexon, though. It's a community of predominant wayward players who don't rally up to voice their opinions on what needs to be quelled. In short, most really don't care.

I'm sure the PSO fanbase is more intelligible (not to mention many of us are old-heads).

I was more referring to the ability to bot than the elimination of them. :)

[Griffin]

Gotcha, pal.

We need to remember that games used to NEVER be free, and with the rise of F2P MMOs everywhere, we've been "overindulged" and now we expect EVERYTHING to be free. So I don't just look at this as a business model, but as a method to gather up more fans. Believe it or not, the PS fanbase isn't as big as it should be.

[Remius]

I dont expect anything to be free, i simply expect to get what i pay for.

[Xenobia]

In a world full of greed "get what you pay for" isnt the matter. The matter is "what you are willing and able to afford". But the real world might slowly change, while PSO2 could be part of it. Not because of common sense, its because of the negative impact many unhappy customers are able to create. A full barrel of water can not be filled anymore without loss. Means, in order to get higher capacity we do need to expand the barrel which is done by creating even more happy customers and providing much easyer access (open access). The increase of a 50% bigger barrel might cause 50% wastage of water, however, it can sowly be filled up again to even higher capacitys.

[Skye-Fox713]

What I would like to say about f2p is probably moot by now but I would like to put my opinions down on it.


The F2P with Cash Shop model was first done with the games such as "Maple Story" and, for what it's worth, it's a very financially successful model. Essentially, the items sold in these types of shops aren't essential to gameplay and are often limited to things like special costume covers or temporary add-on buffs.

The F2P model allows more players to get into the game and the ones who feel like spending real money on the virtual items can do so. Some people go a bit overboard with it, but hey... it keeps the game going for those people who don't want to or are unable to spend money on it.

The only real disadvantage to this model is that less desirable people in the game's community may begin to appear more often than a paid subscription version. However, seeing how this game runs a lot differently than other MMOs in the sense of co-operative gameplay (you and only your teams appear in an area other than the main lobby) and the experience and item system gives you full reward for participating in the combat, this is really not going to be a major issue.

To be frank, this is probably the best model Sega could go with overall... especially since they have to consider the cross-game compatibility with the Vita. After all, if I own both a PC and Vita, should I have to buy two retail game discs and possibly two subscription fees? Even if I have to buy 1 subscription for both, how will they be able to track it easily? The F2P model eliminates these issues.

^ Some very good points here, while I would have preferred a monthly subscription model I am remaining optimistic and pessimistic on how Sega will handle the PSO2 cash shop.


Vindictus, APB Reloaded, World of Tanks also come to mind here.

(Before someone says "convenience is P2W!"... No, no it is not.)

While I'm not familiar with the APB, or WoT cash shop I'm very familiar with the content of the Vindictus cash shop. In the early days of Vindictis a very inherent game element just about forced people to use the cash shop and that was the number of missions you could play were limited by the number of tokens you had before they reset every week. The design element quite physically limited the rate of progression a player could achieve before the tokens reset. Every player had the same number of default tokens that they got for free. This resulted in the most popular item in the cash shop being more tokens to play more missions. To be honest a system like that really grinds my gears

Thankfully however its been about a year sense Vindictus has done away with that system and has instead adopted a boost system that for one mission you can use an item that increases exp gain, and drop rates. As far as I know the game still dose very well. In addition all of the additional apirance items (beyond the default options) to customize your character are all available as perminant items so there are no "rent this hair style for 30 days" items if you want your character to look cool.

While it also dose sell "equipment packs" I have never felt the need to buy them because as far as I know they contain items that can be obtained in game with some effort.

The only thing that still grinds my gears about the Vindictus cash shop that it still sells Inventory space which is one of the things that makes you feel like you need to have and one of the things that is on my list of do not put in cash shop things. Also one last thing is that there is no content lock off in Vindictus, each and every update to the game has been free, zero charge and available to everyone which is another thing on my "f2p not to do list" locking off content.


http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v203/ashley_riot/1327369803527.gif

^ posted fairly early in the thread but is very spot on for my reaction to the free to play for PSO2. I'm Interested, but for now I'm with holding judgment and standing pessimistic on the cash shop and what it could entail.

-Some of the things that keep my hopes up is that we have a some what "can't buy power" from the pso2 devs.

-In a recent announcement we will be able to re-customize our characters in game for in game currency. However if Sega cuts into the default customization options and puts them into the cash shop I will not be happy. Good cash shop cosmetics are added after the fact of the default character customization, and from what I have seen from the character creation videos hopefully it will drive Sega into making cash shop cosmetics worth getting.

-In addition to the inventory space I despise the thought of having to buy additional storage space for the my room storage and on my character. I pray and I'm trying to stay optimistic that Sega won't do this.

Also here's a link to the Extra Credits episode Micro-transactions, its a very interesting and informative web show and worth watching every episode. This is the episode that Sega needs to watch to get their cash shop right.

http://penny-arcade.com/patv/episode/microtransactions

[Shadownami92]

Bots, the gold selling ones.

And they're actually real people sometimes.

Just paid to sit there for hours spamming/killing lvl 1 monsters.

Ah, my bad, totally forgot about those gold farming jobs people have, think I remember lots of those being in China. And I did forget about the bots that I remember in towns shouting about gold and stuff in Guild Wars, was super annoying. Would be annoying to have that in lobbies of PSO2.

[Griffin]

And I did forget about the bots that I remember in towns shouting about gold and stuff in Guild Wars, was super annoying. Would be annoying to have that in lobbies of PSO2.

Sega should do this, but with Dark Falz:




http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3fFYug8nXcM


Note that you can't normally die in a pre-mission area. ^^

[Rizen]

Ah...Dhuum'd...always amusing to watch.

I can see it now in PSO2..."You just got Falz'd!"

[NoiseHERO]

LOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOL

I think sonic should run in and spin dash botters in the stomach, while saying "SEGA SEGA SEGA!!...SEGA!" and the banned botter disappears and sonic runs out the room (probably really fast through a wall or something)

[Tsacar]

I hope you guys like paying for levels and top of the line gear. They're going to milk this teat until it bleeds - not because it makes for a more enjoyable social or gaming experience, but because it pays to prey on the foolish spending habits of people who have no conception of what makes the gaming experience special. Would you pay for extra pieces during a heated chess match? Would you put a dollar in the box to have a puzzle solved for you? Would you pump quarters into your Playstation to bring Aeris back?

Whatever artistic integrity this industry once had is being rapidly corroded by the pursuit of the almighty dollar. Did you know that there was a time when software developers worked in small groups to make games intended to be played by their customers, as opposed to coding a collection of obstacles surmountable only by flashing your credit card?

This industry makes me sick. Old Sega is dead, and Phantasy Star is a reanimated corpse lurching forward to a pestilential dawn.

I will not give these jackals a single penny. This system is depraved.

[NoiseHERO]

I hope you guys like paying for levels and top of the line gear. They're going to milk this teat until it bleeds - not because it makes for a more enjoyable social or gaming experience, but because it pays to prey on the foolish spending habits of people who have no conception of what makes the gaming experience special. Would you pay for extra pieces during a heated chess match? Would you put a dollar in the box to have a puzzle solved for you? Would you pump quarters into your Playstation to bring Aeris back?

Whatever artistic integrity this industry once had is being rapidly corroded by the pursuit of the almighty dollar. Did you know that there was a time when software developers worked in small groups to make games intended to be played by their customers, as opposed to coding a collection of obstacles surmountable only by flashing your credit card?

This industry makes me sick. Old Sega is dead, and Phantasy Star is a reanimated corpse lurching forward to a pestilential dawn.

I will not give these jackals a single penny. This system is depraved.

With how emotionally crushed you must be to be propelled to write such an eloquent post filled with disgust and disappointment. I'd assume you're not going to play this game (Which it's free to play) just because we have to buy a room. :0

[Spellbinder]

I hope you guys like paying for levels and top of the line gear....

Had to stop right there. You really should find better use of your time than making posts like this. If you don't wanna play that's your business.

[VenomFaiz03]

reanimated corpse lurching forward to a pestilential dawn.

Thanks, Poe, you've got some valid points. As for me, I am personally astounded by the news that PSO2 is going to be a "Freemium", but I elect to reserve judgment for facts we'll receive in the future in lieu of retching at paranoid musings.

In English: It could suck, but it might not. Let's wait and find out! Personally, I play more than a handful of "free" titles with pay-for content, and choose my purchases carefully, in attempt to not exceed what I would pay for the game were all the content I purchased included in the game immediately. Regarding PSO2, I'd happily pay $60 for a PC copy, maybe $80 for a special edition with a big ol' stack of extra in-game content, so... Why would I be angry spending that same amount after I've already got the game well under way? Don't get me wrong, I won't spend $250 just to access all the content, but... I pay for every other gaming experience, why would I demand this one for free?

Sorry... Got a little preachy there.

[ClothoBuer]

Considering how much the F2P market has grown in the last few years, this is an obvious choice. Look at all the P2P RPGs around, and not counting WoW or TOR, how many of them are still thriving? Now look at all the F2Ps, and compare. The market for F2P RPGs is getting much stronger, and provided Sega doesn't horribly maim the Cash Shop items, they can make a fair bit of money without the risk of alienating potential players who don't have the funds for a monthly subscription.

[Rizen]

I would like to refer to another one of my post in another thread. (http://www.pso-world.com/forums/showthread.php?p=2728831#post2728831)

F2P =/= P2W (F2P != P2W for you programming folk :P)

Just because a game goes F2P, does not mean that its trying to milk money all the money from it's players. People need to understand that a company has to make a profit and they have to choose the best effective strategy to do so. The recent F2P model of MMOs have been very successful on both profit and player satisfaction.

F2P also brings new players to the genre who were otherwise skeptical about paying a monthly fee for a game and feeling that they have to "pay to try it out" or "play their money's worth". That new player base have the potential of becoming paying customers if they like what they see even if they only by costumes and hair styles, that's more money than what they were making before. If they choose not to by, they are still helping SEGA out by being targets advertisement (as bad as that sounds) and statistical data. SEGA can show these numbers to potential sponsors and have a better chance for them to agree. This leads to more items coming to the cash shop and the cycle continues.

And as I stated in the linked post, players who were willing to pay for a subscription can still buy whatever they are offering in the cash shop up to what they were originally willing to pay for in the first place and still be happy. Players can truly play when they want to instead of having to plan when they have time to actually play the game, and they can customize their experience based off what they want and do not want.

All in all, give F2P a chance. I've seen it work, and I seen it go terribly wrong. Right now, SEGA has the right idea in mind in my opinion.

/2cents

[youcantcatchtheblue]

I was 150% convinced that PSO2 would be subscription-based. But I'm actually very very very happy that it's now Free-to-Play.

I've loved the Free-to-Play model ever since it was first introduced into the gaming industry. So I'm really glad to see a shift in the industry towards F2P. A little market research shows that F2P is indeed becoming more profitable than P2P, so I'm really glad SEGA has caught on to that. Don't be surprised if you see big name MMO's switch to F2P in the next few years.

I'm very busy with work and that leaves very little time for gaming. P2P would mean I'm paying for all those hours that I can't play, but F2P lets me control my spending and I won't feel like I'm wasting my money. I love it! It's brilliant and I hope more and more people will play PSO because of this :D

[Reia]

I'm very busy with work and that leaves very little time for gaming. P2P would mean I'm paying for all those hours that I can't play, but F2P lets me control my spending and I won't feel like I'm wasting my money. I love it! It's brilliant and I hope more and more people will play PSO because of this :D

Or the simple thoughts that I just want to play the game for 1 week each month just to play the new content, after clear and getting the stuff, then what? Roaming anywhere else the other 3 weeks until content ends just to get a later patch the week after? I also wish there were 33% cost 7-days tickets for the case of people who play like 1 week a month like me.

[Mr Champloo]

Heres the problem. When you pay 10 bucks a month you get little stuff free.
I would rather spend 10 bucks a month instead of being grinded and nickel and dimed out to 15-20 a month. And if i dont i miss out.

[thinktank001]

I probably won't be playing PSO2 with the news that it is P2W.

- I don't want to buy drop rate / exp boosters with real cash

- I don't want to buy grinders with real cash

- I don't want to buy mags with real cash

- I don't want to buy unlocks for areas with real cash

[Anon_Fire]

I probably won't be playing PSO2 with the news that it is P2W.


They didn't say it was P2W.

[Xenobia]

Generally, the players who get most value by a P2P system are the super hardcore players. However, for the uber casual players who rarely play, for those kind of people its surely a loss (they basically pay the fee for the hardcore ones). Especially for those who might not play several weeks in a row, so they could savely cancel subscription for some time, but they cant even stop theyr subscription without calling a phone line or other obstacles such as "post payment". Stuff which is artificialy created in order to place huge obstacles into any matter which is useful into making the life of a casual player easyer. Now when we make open access its no secret that we will expand the possibilitys. The people who got attracted the most by the old system, clearly are the core hardcore gamers and the biased PSO fans. A open access can give big contribution to that issue.

I didnt play several months because so much RL stuff, and it was very hard to cancel that subscription, so i was to lazy and kinda ignored the issue. But someday i truly was gonna ask myself... what did i pay for?, if that question will arise, then something isnt correct...its a issue. Im surely not the mule-donkey for the hardcore gamers, who then truly enjoy that rather low subscription fee because inactive gamers will pay for them. And then they gonna rule entire PSO... using the fees of players almost unable to play in a regular way.

So, i do fully support the action of making open access and then simply give players lot of goodies and improvements through a shop which is exchanged with real currency. That way, the "value" is equal for everyone.. no matter hardcore or casual, we all pay the same for the same stuff. We might not all have same possibilitys because some people got time but no money, or money but no time. Its still a much lower issue because in term the same stuff can be gotten without real currency, simply by investing massive amount of time (or buying from player shops), all would be fine. However, stuff i do not support: is the matter when we have to unlock a player room or a certain critical game level by real cash. In my opinion, the impact is to high and everyone should be allowed to use that stuff. However, its totaly possible to implement stuff like that in a more subtle way. For example: Player can buy a special license for hunters (which will last for 30 days) which can enable the possibility to join or get a rare mission. But missions like that are not allowed to be a critical game componnent in any way. It simply will give a useful advantage and a huge amount of players are willing to pay for, because it will make the stuff more rewarding.

[Captt]

I probably won't be playing PSO2 with the news that it is P2W.

- I don't want to buy drop rate / exp boosters with real cash

- I don't want to buy grinders with real cash

- I don't want to buy mags with real cash

- I don't want to buy unlocks for areas with real cash

AGREED MY FRIEND

[Xenobia]

Seriously...? Without real currency you wont even get a streak from your characters hairs, using P2P. There isnt a single thing you get at P2P without real currency, combined with the worst payment conditions of any game on the planet. You people surely are fun. ;) Nothing is free, and PSO never truly will be F2P. but at least "open acess" which is a improvement many casuals wish for. So i support that idea because i see lot of advantage and probably lesser disadvantage than the regular system (in term of PSO2 and its unique shape).

Not the hardcore, thats certain. They wish that no one is at advantage by any other means other than hardcore gaming. And then they gonna rule everything, while massive amount of players locked out of the game in 2 ways, one way is the incabability to catch up in any spot (they simply may work hard in real life and lack time for hardcore gaming). The more worse condition is that they wont even have access at all, no matter how much they inititialy paid for in order to get the game. Offline mode... doesnt exist at all.


I probably won't be playing PSO2 with the news that it is P2W.
- I want to buy drop rate / exp boosters with real cash
- I want to buy grinders with real cash
- I don't want to buy mags with real cash
- I want to buy unlocks for areas with real cash. Note: Rare bonus mission only, area which is NOT critical to the game but pretty rewarding
Thats according to my view. Mags clearly not, a Mag is a critical game item, same such as the personal room. Both kinda is part of the game which should not be separated.

[NoiseHERO]

All these under 20 post count guys running in out of nowhere just to agree with hating the cash shop without even considering how it's actually going to function...

That's suspiciously hilarious.

[Xenobia]

I think its a few hardcores who usualy showed little interest into PSOworld (reason for old account but low post count) because to busy with gaming, but now they want to stomp down any possibilitys for different users. Usualy the people who dont like to support others because "out of time", they need all the time for themself to be at the uppermost edge of the game. ;) I would not say that it is good for the spirit of PSO.

[Ark22]

Lol how is it pay to win, when there is no form of PVP? Basically to me it's pay to show off. "Look at me guys, I got to level 150 in 2 weeks!" Pretty sure that guy won't be playing long since he rushed through it without taking in the fun atmosphere that is PSO2. I like that idea, we can get all the lame people out first.

[Vintasticvin]

Im pretty sure the cash shop will contain weapon skins you can apply to a single weapon, avatar outfits, new hairstyles, and maybe even.... PETS :D YES PETS!!!! Maybe even special and unique room decoration and designs as well =/ Who knows but yeah to all the gloom and doomers do us all a favor and just stay the smurf out... We dont need you comming into the game and our threads flinging your poop all over the place. Ya dig?

[Xenobia]

Its not a win for the community as a whole, nor is it a loss in the matter of gameplay (we have no open PVP, so we dont give unfair advantage). As a whole its still a win because Sega gets cash, and that means they are interested into keeping server alive. Those who dont pay, should be thankful for open access and respect others who did contribute in order to get funny or useful rewards. Finally those who cant pay still can play, and the possibility to get additional items is open to everyone, which is even possible by micro transactions (instead of huge account fees).

[Rizen]

Im pretty sure the cash shop will contain weapon skins you can apply to a single weapon, avatar outfits, new hairstyles, and maybe even.... PETS :D YES PETS!!!! Maybe even special and unique room decoration and designs as well =/ Who knows but yeah to all the gloom and doomers do us all a favor and just stay the smurf out... We dont need you comming into the game and our threads flinging your poop all over the place. Ya dig?

I wouldn't count on pets...Mags already satisfy that.

I think I will stay away from this conversation for a while. At least, until more info or closed beta rolls around. Already put my two cents in a few times.

[thinktank001]

All these under 20 post count guys running in out of nowhere just to agree with hating the cash shop without even considering how it's actually going to function...

That's suspiciously hilarious.


There are well over 100 examples available for you to download and try. There is no mystery how games are designed with a cash shop. If you seriously believe the cash shop will only contain vanity items and account services, then a huge disappointment is waiting for you in the future.

[Xenobia]

Just, PSO is about having fun time together, not about beating others by whatelse. The hardcore will always find theyr challenge but in term there is a true challenge, the specs are normalized for everyone, so there is no thing such as advantage. On the usual content, there can be advantage but its not a advantage unable to achieve as long as critical components arnt removed. As long as everyone got same possibilitys, there is not much issues by a open access system.

Games with a "cash shop" might provide critical content such as flying mounts, or what else, However, those stuff can be gotten by ingame money from player shops (if you dont contribute, simply have to play hard and you get same possibilitys). As long as PSO keeps that direction and doesnt leave those bounds, its totaly fine. Best example is "Perfect World" for that kind of games...

I dont even answer on such hilarious definitions such as "vanity items and account services", its like dragging everything through the mire. A absolutly biased view. There are many good approaches, P2P isnt everything. Its what a company makes out of it.

[NoiseHERO]

There are well over 100 examples available for you to download and try. There is no mystery how games are designed with a cash shop. If you seriously believe the cash shop will only contain vanity items and account services, then a huge disappointment is waiting for you in the future.

I'm not even gonna argue with you guys.

If anything I'd PREFER if this game was pay to play, and I'm jobless, so that's kinda saying a lot.

But you're going over things that have already been said, talked about, and probably concluded at least 3 times in this topic.

All I'm going to say is, the way a F2P online RPG works, mostly likely wouldn't be a 1/10TH as bad as the way a Cookie Cutter F2P KOREAN MMORPG (with a cheap host from california) would work. Sounds like you guys are not only ignoring how this cash shop currently functions, but you sound like you whats going on in this game to begin with.

EXP, scape dolls and Drop boosters isn't really going to affect anyone but it's user in this kind of game that's casual and has no competition. The only REAL annoying thing will be Gachas(Which most things in the gacha will be tradeable) and buying a room. and that's ONLY if the room you buy isn't permanent.

Running in with your 12 post counts saying "LOL P2W this game is doomed have fun buying mags" will just make you guys look stupid.

That is all.

/goes to take my frozen pizza out of the oven.

[Drithe]

I just got this feeling that the new PSO 2 pay model, free to play with cash shop, is going to be huge, kind of like GW and the soon to be out GW2. The closer it gets to coming out the more excited I get.

I just hope they have a change of heart and put it on the ps3, or at least allow us to play it through our ps3 on or VIta. I believe I read where we can use the Vita as a controller for the PC. That would be cool.

[NoiseHERO]

Also they keep saying "Standard version of the game" when talking about F2P.

Could just mean that we'll have to buy future expansions.

But a premium service covering all the F2P stuff as a monthly fee would be cool...

[Xenobia]

Expansions surely will cost bucks, but they usualy are completly new development and in almost any case they wont be free (and should be able to get from any retailer). Open access simply means, that the servers can be used without additional bucks. I use word "open access" because P2P often is meant to be "completly free" from the roots which is most likely not the case. Open access simply means to have full access to the servers and able to play for free, as far as server maintenance and theyr use is concerned. People who got hard time to pay, will save up a lot of cash vs. regular P2P systems and they will not be locked out.

A P2P system costs 120-216$ a year (dependable on country and probably even skin color, i was the one who had to pay 12x18= 216$), excluding initial and expansion cost. No matter how much someone is playing, even when barely time to play at all. Some people just want some fun weekends with gaming. Canceling of accounts made... i already told... extremely hard, so its like a mess to cancel. With the cash i had to pay for P2P i could buy initial game and 3 expansions every single year. I have the right to be upset about such a system and its always nice to see some changes and new tryouts. For me its finish, i wont anymore support a usual P2P system because it ripped me off hard without providing any real gain. The hardcores (and glitchers) smashed me down by theyr superiority (look, i gamed up all the shinys and got even lesser account fee!) while i had to pay twice as much such as a US gamer did for theyr XBox-PSU.

I gladly give all the shinys away to other players who deserve it as a reward. But i wont reward unfair behaviour and inequality by a totaly screwed up P2P system. Just to make sure that even P2P is never ever foolproof and it can be used in a abusive way!!!

[thinktank001]

Just, PSO is about having fun time together, not about beating others by whatelse. The hardcore will always find theyr challenge but in term there is a true challenge, the specs are normalized for everyone, so there is no thing such as advantage. On the usual content, there can be advantage but its not a advantage unable to achieve as long as critical components arnt removed. As long as everyone got same possibilitys, there is not much issues by a open access system.

What do you think cash shop items do? They change the rules for the players that use them.

-Instead of 5 exp for killing a booma you get 10

-Instead of 1/200 chance to drop that red box you got a 1/150

-Instead of having a 30% chance to grind your weapon from +8 to +9 you get a 40% chance

[Saotome Kaneda]

All I know is those complaining about the rooms seem to have forgotten that you in particular don't have to buy your own room, as one person can have 3 connected (and large) rooms...

[Xenobia]

What do you think cash shop items do? They change the rules for the players that use them.

-Instead of 5 exp for killing a booma you get 10

-Instead of 1/200 chance to drop that red box you got a 1/150

-Instead of having a 30% chance to grind your weapon from +8 to +9 you get a 40% chance

They dont need the same rules because they paid for. They do support those wo did not pay and that should provide a good reward. Everyone is free to get a change in rules, we are totaly equal on that matter.

We all can play the game in the way we enjoy, if we think its worth to get some advantage at certain spots, we simply pay for. If we wish to have a harder game we dont pay for, and are happy that we did save up bucks. We are equal... there is no issues under such conditions, we got endless choices able to adjust to our needs... so i dont truly see the problem.

There is 2 ways, even 3, to gain full quality:

-Play harder as those, but dont pay [Advantage: Hardcore]
-Pay, but play lesser as those [Advantage: Casual]
-Dont pay and play very less [Advantage: The poor Casual] People; Who just wish to play a few hours with some friends and got few demands apart from that

Both works... cant be more equal than that.

The changes in rules are not critical (when executed right). As far as challenges (Maximum Attack or what else) goes it will not create any advantage, because we will be bound to the same rules at those kind of events.

[thinktank001]

There is 2 ways to gain full quality:

-Play harder as those, but dont pay
-Pay, but play lesser as those

Both works... cant be more equal than that.



It actually isn't equal at all. The person that pays will always pay the same, but the person that plays will have to fight inflation, and out bid other players.

[Xenobia]

It actually isn't equal at all. The person that pays will always pay the same, but the person that plays will have to fight inflation, and out bid other players.

That huge inflation and deflation, finally a high instability, is actually my biggest issue i had in PSU. Some rare items often way to cheap (because simply to much supply at a certain time) while other items was worth more meseta than the system was capable to display. Somtimes i feelt totaly ripped off because some items decreased in price big times... while others stayed unresonably high. Some few people just controlled the market in many spots and was almost able to force stuff at free will. Stuff like that was always around, so dont speak like "it does only hit a open access system". Its 90% the players fault, not the systems fault. Its just that some systems are easyer to abuse while others much harder. However, the easyest way to fight a unstable system is to power up the weak chain, not the strong chain. We got that lesson from real life economics already, i dunno why some even question that matter. Adding the possibility to buy a power up is kinda adding a second layer, while in a P2P there is always only 1 layer and therefore even harder for others to climb up the ladder of empowerment.

The hardcore always did stomp down the market, and if they are willing to pay big bucks in order to gain even more supriority, then why do you even worry about inequality? You simply will execute exactly the same such as the other hardcore player and you are finally equal again. Remember: You say, the persons who pay will always pay the same, then the situation stays unchanged. It doesnt change at all.. Thats all my pretty logical mind is able to cover.

Those who dont pay, cant play. At open access, they at least get the chance to play... and they dont care your economics in most cases, i can guarantee. They are happy that they can play at all. Previously we did not have those kind of players even inside, now we do expand the barrel of possibilitys and adding a additional factor. With some luck even those can make a big catch and create a huge impact.

The persons who pay will always pay the same itself is wrong. Im the best example. I payed 216$ a year, once, and i will never pay that again for a game able to deliver equal conditions. I feelt ripped off... and was not happy with. As the last resort, they lost me as a customer... thats how true such words can be. I would pay 10$ a month for goodies... and they might not lose me, better deal.

[thinktank001]

That huge inflation and deflation, finally a high instability, is actually my biggest issue i had in PSU. Some rare items often way to cheap (because simply to much supply at a certain time) while other items was worth more bucks than the system was capable to display. Somtimes i feelt totaly ripped off because some items decreased in price big times... while others stayed unresonably high. Some few people just controlled the market in many spots and was almost able to force stuff at free will. Stuff like that was always around, so dont speak like "it does only hit a open access system". Its 90% the players fault, not the systems fault. Its just that some systems are easyer to abuse while others much harder. However, the easyest way to fight a unstable system is to power up the weak chain, not the strong chain. We got that lesson from real life economics already, i dunno why some even question that matter.

The hardcore always did stomp down the market, and if they are willing to pay big bucks in order to gain even more supriority, then why do you even worry about inequality? You simply will execute exactly the same such as the other hardcore player and you are finally equal again. Remember: You say, the persons who pay will always pay the same, then the situation stays unchanged. It doesnt change at all.. Thats all my pretty logical mind is able to cover.




I was referring to just cash shop items, since that is what this thread is about. The person that plays will always be fighting inflation as in game prices rise for cash shop items, but the player that pays directly to the cash shop will always pay the same price. The players that are willing to spend on cash shop items will always have an advantage that grows over time with inflation.

Side note: Is English a secondary language for you? I am just wondering because I would like to make sure my posts are being understood.

[Griffin]

Side note: Is English a secondary language for you? I am just wondering because I would like to make sure my posts are being understood.

You really didn't need to type this.

[Xenobia]

I was referring to just cash shop items, since that is what this thread is about. The person that plays will always be fighting inflation as in game prices rise for cash shop items, but the player that pays directly to the cash shop will always pay the same price. The players that are willing to spend on cash shop items will always have an advantage that grows over time with inflation.

I cant judge fully about inflation regarding "cash shop items" which is gotten from player shops. Naturally the players dont have so much meseta at the beginning, therefore they are not willing to pay the same amount such as they do years after. So its kinda true that the price will go up for the players who are not buying from a "cash shop". But thats kinda natural, because the owned meseta will go up aswell... more meseta means more players willing to spend huge amount of it. Its simply how the market works and not truly a surprise. Usualy the player have to work much harder in the beginning of the game for the same amount of meseta, so, a certain inflation is totaly natural. Just depends how much of it, but about that matter i cant fully judge, to much unknown factors.

But remember, everyone is free to get the items from the location they want. If the prices goes up way to high, they still can use the "cash shop". Prices are done by demand and supply, and the players willpower and ability to pay. Prices are never hardcoded, its regulated by the individuals mind regarding value of a item.

[NoiseHERO]

5K meseta per unit of arks cash now

300k meseta per unit of arks cash 4 years from now.

[Xenobia]

Yeah but how much of meseta did you own at the first day and how much 4 years after? :-P Prices goes up that high because people get filled up with cash such as a bankers treasure and then they simply are willing to pay for. Prices will never go higher than what people are willing to pay for... remember the most important of all market rules. When stuff cant be sold, then the seller have to decrease price. When stuff is sold even at billions of meseta.. why should they drop price? They see no reason other then sheer compassion toward a unknown being. Prehaps... rather use some RL cash... could be easyer work for many people.

[NoiseHERO]

Yeah but how much of meseta did you own at the first day and how much 4 years after? :-P

That's the fun of having an economy do'hohoho!

I remember whenever I got poor in PSU, I would just hunt for easy rares or grind weapons and sell those. Then trade em for other weapons I wanted.

Then people complain about rares staying rare, or complain about them being easy to get just by buying them. But once an event like 1up hits, a whole level 90-120 of rares will become common either way.

[Xenobia]

5K meseta per unit of arks cash now

300k meseta per unit of arks cash 4 years from now.
And what kind of example it is? PSU JP?

Hard to believe that PSU JP was "open access" 4 years already and Xbox ripped me off all the time. Could have gotten so much more in PSU JP with, maybe the entire "cash shop". I will never make that failure ever again and set my finger on a PC from day 1. 3 years of spared XBL PSU means, 600$ to burn on the cash shop... i will come out like a billionaire and can barely move...

History:
2006-2008 = P2P on all servers/versions
2008-2012 open for JP/PC, P2P on Xbox (variable prices according to country).
2011= I canceled it with mad face and never play again. Lost almost any friend on PSU because they stopped playing too.

Money paid for 5 years: aproximately 1000$. (didnt notice how it slowly depleted that crazy, i feel like knuckling those who was able to ripp it out of me, by a hidden "auto charge" and locked credit card).
Support and updates gotten: Close to none. (always half year behind JP, much lesser events).
Possible goodies for that amount of cash in "cash shop": Not gonna calculate, i wish not to be named under the book of the richest entitys.

Hates P2P, since i know what kind of damage it can create.

[NoiseHERO]

And what kind of example it is? PSU JP?

Hard to believe that PSU JP was "open access" 4 years already and Xbox ripped me off all the time. Could have gotten so much more in PSU JP with, maybe the entire "cash shop". I will never make that failure ever again and set my finger on a PC from day 1. 3 years means, 600$ to burn on the cash shop... i will come out like a billionaire.

Oh I was talking about "OTHER" FP2 games e-cash's worth in the game's currency, ironically.

I think I quit like late 2009...

It seems a lot of other PS fans are different, and PSU was like my favorite game that whole time, (Stopped playing other games) But playing any ONE game for 3 years straight, no matter how much I like it... I'm gonna get bored.

[Xenobia]

I did actively play PSU from 2006-2009, at 2009-2011 only marginally. But i was kinda to lazy to cancel the account because i told already, i was unable to cancel in dashboard. They want me to use a phone and when i say i want to cancel they ask me many questions. Seriously, are they stupid? At 2011 i kinda overlooked my budget and noticed how much of cash PSU did burn for close to no service. I was also unable to take out my credit card out of theyr database. There should be a law preventing the arrest of cards. Generally i wont hand out personal stuff anymore to non trusted sources, because its always a mess. I dont have endless bucks, i need some sensitive use of it without abusive behaviours.

I guess i remember when some US friend told me that they was able to cancel in dashboard, but not me. At that moment you should have seen my face, i feelt like a ghettokid... and there was probably a black smoke above my head... then i took the phone and i had to put lot of focus not to shout like a tiger, but keep calm and trying to pretend that i am absolutly calm. Inequality in the matter of justice is my weak spot... and they did hit it hard in several ways.

I strongly support open access because i had my lesson.

[thinktank001]

Yeah but how much of meseta did you own at the first day and how much 4 years after? :-P Prices goes up that high because people get filled up with cash such as a bankers treasure and then they simply are willing to pay for. Prices will never go higher than what people are willing to pay for... remember the most important of all market rules. When stuff cant be sold, then the seller have to decrease price. When stuff is sold even at billions of meseta.. why should they drop price? They see no reason other then sheer compassion toward a unknown being. Prehaps... rather use some RL cash... could be easyer work for many people.


However, there is never a surplus of cash shop items. Less than 10% of the player base actually purchases items, and that creates a never ending demand. Cash shop items always rise in price. The only time they ever fall is when there is a better item introduced, or there is a cash shop sale. If a sale is the reason for the lowering of prices, then it is just temporary.

Not to mention you are forgetting about all the players that join after you may have joined. Sure you may be able to afford the prices because of your level, but what about the new player? He certainly doesn't have the ability to gain meseta like an established player.

[Enforcer MKV]

Does anyone know if some version of the Cash shop will be open in the beta phase? Not for use, just to show players the types of things available once the game goes live.

I know most are quick to jump on the P2W train, here, but the fact of the matter is, regardless of how much evidence there is to support either side, we don't know how PSO2 is going to turn out. There are an increasing number of games that promise not to tread into P2W territory, and all the ones that come to mind (at least to me) are still in development, PSO2 included. So while the more staunch supporters of the P2W notion will likely dismiss this, I'd like to remind everyone that we don't have any sure fire way of judging this game. Yes, a lot of past games have fallen into the P2W trap. But the F2P concept is still a fledgling market, one that has only recently became popular. Many of the games that have P2W tendencies were released before F2P's spur in popularity.

It's totally possible the cash shop goes P2W. But it is in no way guaranteed at this point.

/cue flamewar :P

[Mike]

Does anyone know if some version of the Cash shop will be open in the beta phase? Not for use, just to show players the types of things available once the game goes live.

From a different topic:


2. Arks Cash testing
The cash shop will be made available during the beta test and to make sure everything works correctly testers will be given a total of 10,000 AC (Arks Cash) to be freely used to make sure the system works correctly. Some of the items in the cash shop during the beta are only available for testing purposes though.

[R315r4z0r]

I'd rather have a short-lived community and a dead game than suffer through tried and true gameplay mechanics that get ruined by some real-world cash schemes.

One of the major draws of an RPG is the collection and flaunting of rare drops. Now... instead of pure luck and odds, people are just gonna pay to have the best stuff. What fun is there in that? All the value of rare items will drop dramatically if anyone can have them for a price.

And if selling rare items isn't how they plan on implementing this cash store, then how? I can't imagine them just selling off aesthetic stuff; there is no way that would give them a profit.

[Spellbinder]

Well they've said several times and it's posted on the blog / website that they don't want this to be a game where the people who pay money come out on top as the stronger players.

So we can either take their word that that's the kind of game they want to make, or call them liars.

So far it seems the majority of people here want to call shenanigans on SEGA before even trying out the cash shop and it makes me a little sad.

[Macman]

I can't imagine them just selling off aesthetic stuff; there is no way that would give them a profit.Team Fortress 2 proves you wrong so hard.

[Enforcer MKV]

Excellent. Thanks, Mike. Much Obliged.

[soulpimpwizzurd]

I'd rather have a short-lived community and a dead game than suffer through tried and true gameplay mechanics that get ruined by some real-world cash schemes.

One of the major draws of an RPG is the collection and flaunting of rare drops. Now... instead of pure luck and odds, people are just gonna pay to have the best stuff. What fun is there in that? All the value of rare items will drop dramatically if anyone can have them for a price.

And if selling rare items isn't how they plan on implementing this cash store, then how? I can't imagine them just selling off aesthetic stuff; there is no way that would give them a profit.

league of legends mostly gains profit from selling different outfits for characters players can control.

i'm pretty sure if they have enough aesthetic quirks in the cash shop they'll make a pretty penny.

[Saotome Kaneda]

And if selling rare items isn't how they plan on implementing this cash store, then how? I can't imagine them just selling off aesthetic stuff; there is no way that would give them a profit.
Once again, look at the DLC for PSPo2/2I. They may not have sold like hotcakes, they did sell. And not one of those items/weapons were even remotely worth using past say, Lv100, even if your luck was bad. They were all good for early game leveling, but even when extended were still fairly weak compared to even some A ranks.

The collab and special costumes were fun things too. There's a lot of money to be made in porting over popular anime/manga/movie/pop culture-related costumes.

[Akaimizu]

Actually, companies like Nexon have acquired a nice tidy profit, and are quite successful using a system for which they sell aesthetic stuff while still allowing the whole game and all the important attainable items available within their free to play model. It may not sound like they would make a profit on paper, to some, but the truth is in what really happens out there, and somehow that business model seems to actually make good money.

[Enforcer MKV]

A big part of what makes it so successful is the fact that people want to stand out, they want to feel unique. That's part of why customization is such a pull to a lot of people: It allows them to have a unique character that they feel is theirs. Clothing is the same way.

[Xenobia]

According to newest statement its truly F2P and not just open access. Because apparently we dont even have to buy the game. So it means it would become able to download for free and even free access.

I mean its still hard to believe that they truly do finally execute such huge changes, but nothing is impossible. PSO2 is in many way a pretty different PSO, and is truly hitting a new ground. In term they risk a new shape, they might have the chance to be very successfull. If they dont, they might just always keep at that "so so" rate such as they did until now. F2P truly is a new chance into reaching a increased player range and advanced possibilitys.

I safely could say, it would be able to be the top of the F2P games, while on P2P it certainly will not be able to go for the crown. F2P... yes, its possible.

[Randomness]

If they do the F2P right, they're looking at this being huge. If.

Honestly, it's way too soon to judge this decision, imo. At least wait until the beta when we get more concrete info.

[kyuuketsuki]

And if selling rare items isn't how they plan on implementing this cash store, then how? I can't imagine them just selling off aesthetic stuff; there is no way that would give them a profit.
1) They're not just selling aesthetic stuff. Did you even read about the revealed cash shop stuff?

2) If you can't imagine how they'd make money selling aesthetic items/etc., you're not trying hard enough. Aesthetics are a huge part of a game. Y'know, it being a visual medium and all.

[Akaimizu]

The aesthetics can be even better since they still allow you to *make* a unique character with the character editor. It looks like it could be as expansive as PSU's. And I certainly made more than 1 character, just in that, which had a unique look that nobody else in PSU had. Even if they wore the exact same outfit.

[thinktank001]

Actually, companies like Nexon have acquired a nice tidy profit, and are quite successful using a system for which they sell aesthetic stuff while still allowing the whole game and all the important attainable items available within their free to play model. It may not sound like they would make a profit on paper, to some, but the truth is in what really happens out there, and somehow that business model seems to actually make good money.


MS hasn't had a cosmetic only item shop for at least 6 years. Now the only way to advance your equipment is through the cash shop. I started playing MS when it was in beta, and it was fun when the cash shop only had costumes. However, it isn't possible to keep a MMO running on cash shop only items that don't provide some kind of advantage to a player. They just are not profitable enough to make investors/publishers happy.

[iBOCK]

I'm personally okay with it if it isn't "Pay $4.99 to unlock this area, pay $14.99 to unlock this weapon which is stronger than anything else you could ever get in the game, pay $4.99 to unlock various in-game features".

I would absolutely be okay with cosmetic weapon skins and clothing, but if it starts to be completely pay-to-win like Allods Online's perfume system, the game will be ruined.

Apologies if I missed the cash shop description. Does anyone have a link to an article detailing the specifics of what the shop will sell or is that still to be determined?

[Xenobia]

I do not support "pay to win". Thats why i already told, that all the items should be able to be gotten from player shops (with the exception of purely cosmetic based stuff which doesnt provide any gameplay advantage), that way, everyone got the possibilitys "to pwn". Important is to have free choice and open possibilitys to everyone. While a "cash shop" is a advantage and reward, its not a "free.. actually paid... ticket to eliminate the competition". Stuff like that i would not backup and i dont think they gonna implement it. Sure, the "cash shop" payers will be stronger, simply at advantage, but as long as there is a chance to achieve the same without using cash shop, its a fair advantage and equality is given.

The infos i got so far http://pso2blog.wordpress.com/category/pso2-news/ :

First of, some of the key intentions regarding ths shop:

■There will not be direct selling of items in any form
■You will not be able to buy powerful items through the cash shop
■There will not be a special level cap for those who pay

This, rather doesn’t rule out the possibility of indirectly selling items of course, but you won’t be able to just buy your way to the top gear either. The types of items that Sakai says that players should expect to see in the player shops are:

■System things
■Access to rooms – Update: It would this actually means access to more features in your rooms. You can go to your room without paying, apparently.
■Access to trade functions
■Access to selling items in shops
■Skill tree expansion (Not buying new skills, you’re buying essentially more builds as far as speculation seems to suggest)

While i think its subject to change, and they certainly will improve the matter (means to increase "cash shop" offers), in term its true whats written down here. However, i still do not believe that they will create a unfair advantage aka "pay to win". So, people most likely no need to worry. Right now the advantage of "cash shop" is rather sensitive (as far as im able to judge) and still lower than the maximum level possible, which means... as i said... not to create unfair advantage.

[Drithe]

Hey! I would love to pay for more space to put my items in, or more room to put items on, say like weapons I found, for everyone to see. All these things that Xenobia has said is coming with the shop sounds very exciting to me.

I just hope they go back to the original items system, like the Original PSO, where we can find OUTSTANDING RANDOM DROPS. TO me that is what made it so cool back in the day. That and we made alot of money by selling stuff we found.

[Anon_Fire]

I just hope they go back to the original items system, like the Original PSO, where we can find OUTSTANDING RANDOM DROPS. TO me that is what made it so cool back in the day. That and we made alot of money by selling stuff we found.

Won't happen. You get your own item/weapon drops.

[BlackHawkGS]

I'd prefer p2p, especially after seeing what's going to be available in the cash shop: http://pso2blog.wordpress.com/2012/03/28/the-cash-shop-initial-details/

First off, timed items? That strikes me as a bit greedy. I don't really see the point of making a player repeatedly paying for one item, when there's already so many other consumable items to pay for over and over. I feel like non-consumable items should be permanent, but... I don't know, perhaps that's just me.

Also is the fact that they're putting in Grind-rate Boosters, EXP boosters, Drop rate boosters. I've seen people say that this only effects OTHER people and not YOU, but they seem to be thinking this a single-player game of some sort. I'm online, and I'm playing with friends, perhaps some that I'll even meet in-game. If they're advancing through the game faster than me, and are getting more drops to make better gear and become more powerful than me, I'm suddenly left behind and have to pay money to catch up. Sorry, but that doesn't strike me as fair.

The rest seems fine. I just get annoyed all to hell with items that speed up the progression. I mean, that's one of the main mechanics of an RPG! The effort and time it takes to create a more powerful character is a lot of the satisfaction when reaching that high level. So we're just going to speed through that with EXP boosts? Now you have a powerful character that you're less attached to since you've spent less time with him/her, and you haven't received as much gameplay experience as everyone else.

... I'll stop ranting now o.o;

[kyuuketsuki]

I just hope they go back to the original items system, like the Original PSO, where we can find OUTSTANDING RANDOM DROPS. TO me that is what made it so cool back in the day. That and we made alot of money by selling stuff we found.


Won't happen. You get your own item/weapon drops.
Does not compute.

[Angelo]

Does not compute.

Basically you can't sell or trade rare items.

[Mitz]

Wait-what? I never saw mentioning of that. Is that true?

[Angelo]

Wait-what? I never saw mentioning of that. Is that true?

1. Enemy drops are different on everyone's screen, so you can't share drops. They're dropped for the individual.

2. They stated that rare items will be bound to your character and cannot be sold or traded.

Pretty terrible if you ask me.

...also... 1000th post.

[Spellbinder]

Wasn't the equipment bound only if you actually "equip it"? Last thing we need is more false information being spread around. Someone find a quote.

[Vashyron]

It is only if you equip it and it is on only "Very rare" items.

[Spellbinder]

For further clarification.


Request: I don't want very rare items to be sellable in shops.
Response: We'll make it so that you won't be able to trade or sell via My Shop any very rare item that you have equipped once.

Post α2 requests, gallery updates, and blog
http://www.pso-world.com/forums/showthread.php?t=193614

Original Japanese results of the Player Survey
http://pso2.jp/alpha2/after/


So yes you can trade very rare equipment you haven't put on yet.

[kyuuketsuki]

Basically you can't sell or trade rare items.
Yes I knew that. I wasn't sure how everyone getting their own individual drops somehow precluded finding good rares from dropping, which is what I thought was being dicussed.

1. Enemy drops are different on everyone's screen, so you can't share drops. They're dropped for the individual.

2. They stated that rare items will be bound to your character and cannot be sold or traded.

Pretty terrible if you ask me.

...also... 1000th post.
What's terrible? The individual drops or the item binding? Item binding is only for the rarest items, and it's only bind on equip.

[Angelo]

Yes I knew that. I wasn't sure how everyone getting their own individual drops somehow precluded finding good rares from drops, which is what I thought was being dicussed.

What's terrible? The individual drops or the item binding? Item binding is only for the rarest items, and it's only bind on equip.

If it's only bind on equip then I have no problem. I would just like to see chances to work hard towards something without luck involved. Some people just have shit for luck. I played PSO to 200 and got maybe 2 'uber rares' in my time playing. I played PSU to 120 and never got a single rare weapon, ever.

I'd definitely like to see the personal shops have more life in them, which is why I thought bind-on-pickup was an awful idea.

[NoiseHERO]

How many people had to say that again?

5?

C'mon, we're all adults here.

I think.

edit: ninja posted by angelo. D:

[johnwolf]

There are problems/traps in e-shops that gaming companies keep getting into so here is some things that Sega should do to AVOID killing the game early.

1. NO Cash buys ingame cash. this KILLS the ingame economy and forces EVERYONE to pay. this also turns into a Pay 2 Win even IF there is no e-shop weapons. once you can buy items with money it turns into P2W and this is a way to do it.

2. E-shop weapons THE RIGHT WAY. if you put weapons in the E-shop make them LVL locked (players can't buy OR see them if they arn't the lvl), bind on buy, not to powerful, and NEVER, EVER, put gameplay rares in the store. if you going to put something rare in the store make it E-shop exlusive and buyable via cash AND ingame currency.

3. make boosting items and some E-shop items available to both pay and non payers. now this is tricky because these should be hard to get for the non payers without it seeming imposable or slow as F to get. if done right it'll be an excitable experiance for all and non payers may start being payers.

4. base prices on how much people buy a certain money type in the e-shop. what it means is if you need to rise or lower RL cash prices RASE OR LOWER RL CASH PRICES and vice versa. these should NEVER have anything to do with each other. end of story.

these are some thing sega needs to watch out for....PERIOD. otherwise it's going to need to lose the F2P attitude and turn it into a P2P game.

[8BitGinno]

Hmmm. I'm all for a free-to-play cash shop for PSO2. Primarily because I'm poor as hell. :-x

Yeah, I'm just hoping it doesn't happen the wrong way. I don't want no pay-to-win PSO2.

[Ioriya]

I'm down with the F2P model.

It just means that my cheapass IRL friends will be able to play with me.

[Mega Ultra Chicken]

3. make boosting items and some E-shop items available to both pay and non payers. now this is tricky because these should be hard to get for the non payers without it seeming imposable or slow as F to get. if done right it'll be an excitable experiance for all and non payers may start being payers.

Or they could just make the leveling experience bearable enough (or, heaven forbid, enjoyable enough) that an XP booster would definitely feel optional.

[Flome]

They will be banning foreign IP's tho, I suppose?

[Macman]

They will be banning foreign IP's tho, I suppose?
They probably won't care unless you do things to bring attention to yourself such as talking English a lot in public chat.

[RedRaz0r]

Hmmm. I'm all for a free-to-play cash shop for PSO2. Primarily because I'm poor as hell. :-x

Yeah, I'm just hoping it doesn't happen the wrong way. I don't want no pay-to-win PSO2.

Funny, I want a Pay to Play non cash shop for PSO2, Primarily because I'm poor as hell..

Due to paying WAY more than $10 a month to stupid cash shop stuff, this is going to kill me.

[Griffin]

So yes you can trade very rare equipment you haven't put on yet.

PRO.

I don't want anyone's hand-me-downs!

[pso2love]

Funny, I want a Pay to Play non cash shop for PSO2, Primarily because I'm poor as hell..

Due to paying WAY more than $10 a month to stupid cash shop stuff, this is going to kill me.

Some would argue that they want to pay the monthly fee to have everything... well, maybe there are those, like myself, who could care less about EVERYTHING. You may not necessarily need everything they have in the cash shop, yet, there will be things you will come back for more of the same things. Maybe you can hold off for that one certain thing.

Heck, maybe they could even do a "Justice Points" system like in World Of Warcraft. ( I only put this in a spoiler box because I personally don't like any game that even looks remotely close to WoW, yet I like the system I'm mentioning)

[pso2love]

For further clarification.



Post α2 requests, gallery updates, and blog
http://www.pso-world.com/forums/showthread.php?t=193614

Original Japanese results of the Player Survey
http://pso2.jp/alpha2/after/


So yes you can trade very rare equipment you haven't put on yet.

So, you couldn't just drop the equipment like in PSO? I would have no problem trading items like that in a private game.

[thinktank001]

So, you couldn't just drop the equipment like in PSO? I would have no problem trading items like that in a private game.


You can't drop items in PSO2. You can't trade at all unless you purchase your room. A player could probably sell to a " buying shop " if there is such a thing.

[Tsacar]

I'll be back to gloat when the really horrible details are released!

That, or I'll publicly eat my own e-shoes if they do something tactful like implement an extremely robust series of cosmetic enhancements that become must-haves for people who are serious about character customization.

This is going to sound odd, considering how far the title has fallen in other areas, but WoW is an excellent example of implementing cash shops the right way. People went nuts over the sparkle pony, and everyone ended up using paid character transfers and so forth.

I still anticipate Sega going full iRO on us.

[Krank32oz]

You can't drop items in PSO2. You can't trade at all unless you purchase your room. A player could probably sell to a " buying shop " if there is such a thing.

Seriously? There is no trading system in the games you make? Why are they doing that? I don't really get the logic behind that. If you can trade in your room why cant you trade in a game?

[Reia]

Seriously? There is no trading system in the games you make? Why are they doing that? I don't really get the logic behind that. If you can trade in your room why cant you trade in a game?

Because you got to pay up for your room monthly. Althou I think there will be a direct trading sort of thing, no reason to go so paranoid.

[Krank32oz]

I would say its more like concerned. But that makes me feel a little better. I'm sure whatever they do will still be pretty good.

[thinktank001]

Althou I think there will be a direct trading sort of thing, no reason to go so paranoid.


If you do not purchase a room, then you can not trade. This is one of the reasons why they implemented seperate drops for everyone. They also cite it as a way to help combat RMT.

[johnwolf]

Or they could just make the leveling experience bearable enough (or, heaven forbid, enjoyable enough) that an XP booster would definitely feel optional.

boosting items is everything that boost your ability to get better and grinders could be included. And even if the boosters FEEL optional they are boosting enuff that it can make other players feel like they are being left behind and forced to use them and once again it becomes P2W. keeping this option open to free players keeps it remotely fair, even if they are expensive to buy with ingame money.


@thinktank001 they should at LEAST alow recoveory item trading, like mates and (if they are implimented) fluids. keeping this locked makes a game MUCH harder than it needs to.

[Zyrusticae]

I have zero sympathy for completely non-paying players.

Absolutely none at all.

This is how capitalism works, folks! Adapt or die.

[Faiyez]

And even if the boosters FEEL optional they are boosting enuff that it can make other players feel like they are being left behind and forced to use them and once again it becomes P2W. keeping this option open to free players keeps it remotely fair,

You're too concerned for the players who aren't going to put any money into the game. Many of us expected this game to be P2P, and we were very much willing to play it anyway.

(As long as the premium features aren't game-breaking), if Sega's paying customers are going to have the upper hand against those who are never spending a dime in the game, then so be it.

[Ryo]

I think the game being F2P is the perfect model here, personally. I only have issues when it's a mix of P2P and F2P and cash shop items are things that would take the P2P players a long time to earn, despite paying a monthly subscription fee.

And even then, I don't have problems with it. I'm all for sega offering whatever they want in the cash shop for a completely free game. You don't wanna pay for it? Find it. You do? Then go buy it.

I, for one, will likely dump a ton of money into the cash shop. I know I have on other F2P games and they don't even measure up to PSO in my book.

Plus, when my friends heard the game is F2P, they all jumped on downloading the character creator and signing up for the beta. I couldn't be happier!

[NoiseHERO]

The majority of the non-paying players make up F2P games...

So you can say they're pretty much freeloading trash. But scare most of em away, and everything else starts to fall apart. All this pay to win drama... Who are you paying to win against? all 40 other losers blowing their whole pay checks on this game a week who are waiting to get bored after they teleport to the end of the game by buying EXP?

Just an exaggerated example, no need to turn it into a base for an internet argument. Just saying the non-paying kids are important too.

Though this game will be getting a chunk of my money for sure if/when there's a US release.

[Mega Ultra Chicken]

I have zero sympathy for completely non-paying players.

Absolutely none at all.

This is how capitalism works, folks! Adapt or die. My respect for you has declined slightly. People have reasons to not pay. Maybe paying for a game is less important to them than, say, paying bills. Or in a less extreme case, they are simply not convinced that they need any of the Cash Shop stuff.


And even if the boosters FEEL optional they are boosting enuff that it can make other players feel like they are being left behind and forced to use them and once again it becomes P2W. I probably do not represent the majority of PSU players, but I did not revolve much of my play time around trying to grind my weapons as much as possible, especially when it can risk destroying a weapon. It hardly feels forced if one can survive without it, and I managed to do so in PSU. If the primary philosophy behind grinders turns out to be perfectionism, then I'm not convinced that they're a requirement.

Overall, an effective cash shop has balance. It should have things that players would want to buy, but nothing that breaks the game or causes most players to kick those that couldn't afford to or couldn't find a sufficient reason to spend money on buffing their weapons (other than buying grinders to not get kicked.)

[Krank32oz]

MegaUltraChicken you took the words right out of my mouth dude. Couldn't agree more but as long as people can enjoy it the way they want to everyone should be happy. That's what I'm hoping makes this game superb.

[Zyrusticae]

My respect for you has declined slightly. People have reasons to not pay. Maybe paying for a game is less important to them than, say, paying bills. Or in a less extreme case, they are simply not convinced that they need any of the Cash Shop stuff.

So?

Seriously, so what?

This is capitalism at work, people. Don't like it? Fight against capitalism. It's as simple as that.

The end result of capitalism is always penny-pinching, no matter how you slice it. It should come as no surprise to you that every company on the planet engages in this sort of behavior. It's very, very rare for a large company to put customer satisfaction over the allure of sheer profit, and there are very big, very obvious reasons for that.

So, y'know, if you're a leech, i.e. you drain bandwidth from the servers without ever contributing to the provider's funds, you should expect sub-par service. It's that simple. Sucks to be you an' all, but capitalism doesn't care. Capitalism only cares about the bottom line, simple as.


And really, do you even realize how absurd you sound? "Well, I don't want to pay for it, but give it to me anyway!" <-- That's pretty much what I'm taking away from that. Not a very convincing argument, really.


The majority of the non-paying players make up F2P games...

So you can say they're pretty much freeloading trash. But scare most of em away, and everything else starts to fall apart. All this pay to win drama... Who are you paying to win against? all 40 other losers blowing their whole pay checks on this game a week who are waiting to get bored after they teleport to the end of the game by buying EXP?

Just an exaggerated example, no need to turn it into a base for an internet argument. Just saying the non-paying kids are important too.

Though this game will be getting a chunk of my money for sure if/when there's a US release.
That is actually a solid point.

Free players should get just enough so that they can enjoy the game alongside paying players, to keep the population of the game healthy.

But they still should not expect hand-me-downs or convenience features available to them for the cost of nothing.

[NoiseHERO]

No, don't let Zyru make this about "capitalism" or "FIGHT CAPITALISM IF YOU DON'T LIKE IT, BECAUSE LET'S BE REAL HERE" and trick you into having a pointless 4 page argument about an almost completely irrelevant topic. One that somehow relates to the way everyone should see the cash shop and how people that don't buy from the cash shop apparently suck.

Don't let him do it.

[soulpimpwizzurd]

The majority of the non-paying players make up F2P games...

So you can say they're pretty much freeloading trash. But scare most of em away, and everything else starts to fall apart. All this pay to win drama... Who are you paying to win against? all 40 other losers blowing their whole pay checks on this game a week who are waiting to get bored after they teleport to the end of the game by buying EXP?

Just an exaggerated example, no need to turn it into a base for an internet argument. Just saying the non-paying kids are important too.

Though this game will be getting a chunk of my money for sure if/when there's a US release.

quoted for truth, quite f!@king true, both work here.

the free players are significant "content" f2p games have as well. nobody wants to play a game that has nobody else playing. even if they don't pay a dime, an f2p player who doesn't drop a penny could be the reason why someone who regularly spends $$ on the game continues to play and spend, because they can play together.

like i said in my op post i know that pretty much 90% of my friends wouldn't try this game with me if it was p2p. i'd still play but it definitely wouldn't be as fun.

[Zyrusticae]

No, don't let Zyru make this about "capitalism" or "FIGHT CAPITALISM IF YOU DON'T LIKE IT, BECAUSE LET'S BE REAL HERE" and trick you into having a pointless 4 page argument about an almost completely irrelevant topic. One that somehow relates to the way everyone should see the cash shop and how people that don't buy from the cash shop apparently suck.

Don't let him do it.
GTFO if you can't handle it.

I'm sick of your crap and I ain't takin' it. If you don't want to contribute anything at all, then just GTFO. It's that easy.

Or use the /ignore function. That's another way out.

Seriously, though? All this whining is sickening me. I'm tired of it and I'm REALLY tired of all the F2P P2W blahblahblah whining all over the fuckin' internet.

It's pathetic. Realize that what is going on is just a symptom of the environment everyone has to deal with before you start whining about irrelevant crap like the price of virtual goods in a video game.

[BIG OLAF]

So easy to work him up.

[Randomness]

If you do not purchase a room, then you can not trade. This is one of the reasons why they implemented seperate drops for everyone. They also cite it as a way to help combat RMT.

I thought the trade was going to be separate, and the room was to open a shop?

I'd rather see trading being enabled for anyone who spends more than some amount of money on the game, and only shops be tied to rooms.

[NoiseHERO]

GTFO if you can't handle it.

I'm sick of your crap and I ain't takin' it. If you don't want to contribute anything at all, then just GTFO. It's that easy.

Or use the /ignore function. That's another way out.

Seriously, though? All this whining is sickening me. I'm tired of it and I'm REALLY tired of all the F2P P2W blahblahblah whining all over the fuckin' internet.

It's pathetic. Realize that what is going on is just a symptom of the environment everyone has to deal with before you start whining about irrelevant crap like the price of virtual goods in a video game.

What are you TALKING about? o_o

I was just telling this guy not to fall for your usual borderlined off topic bicker bait-WAIT UH MINUTE. The second I ask "What are you TALKING about? o_O" I'm already dragged into your void of pointless thoughts. D:

Also I preferred pay to play, but was fine with cash shop, and as I said I'll be spending money on it either way.

But suddenly EVERYONE is getting punched in the balls when we have to pay for virtual rent.

[Mega Ultra Chicken]

Zyru, do be aware that there's a difference between a cash shop and a downright ridiculous cash shop. That's likely where most of the commotion is coming from; people are afraid that the cash shop could end up gouging them. One doesn't have to declare war on capitalism to call bullshit on a cash shop.

I myself might end up buying storage, character slots, and cosmetic stuff on the cash shop if they don't do the whole "available for 90 days" thing for the latter. It's not because I'm a freeloader, it's because I question the ethics of such a system as well as the practicality of paying multiple times a year to have virtual clothes. And if the prices aren't ridiculous, I might decide to pay virtual rent and make use of that.

[Macman]

If you do not purchase a room, then you can not trade. This is one of the reasons why they implemented seperate drops for everyone. They also cite it as a way to help combat RMT.
SEGA's combating RMT by doing it themselves. Brilliant. :-?

[Shadownami92]

Hey, you guys think there will be a gifting system? So you can gift Arks Cash or Cashshop items to another player?

Could be a pretty nifty feature I think.

[pso2love]

Hey, you guys think there will be a gifting system? So you can gift Arks Cash or Cashshop items to another player?

Could be a pretty nifty feature I think.

That would help me out TONS! :yes: ... since I have at least 8 other friends that I agreed to buy Arks Cash for. :beer:

[Tsacar]

I have zero sympathy for completely non-paying players.

Absolutely none at all.

This is how capitalism works, folks! Adapt or die.

Or play titles that nickel and dime you into paying far more than their product is worth.

[Archandes]

P2P is a bad payment model in this age unless you get large company and budget, which make you able to compete with other giant mmo out there (just look at aion).

Today B2P and F2P has more potential than P2P.

[kyuuketsuki]

SEGA's combating RMT by doing it themselves. Brilliant. :-?
... /facepalm

It's not because I'm a freeloader, it's because I question the ethics of such a system as well as the practicality of paying multiple times a year to have virtual clothes.
It's always subject to change, of course, but nothing cosmetic is a rental. Only My Room, My Shop, and trading are rentals, currently (unless I'm forgetting something).

Also, I don't know why FUD keeps getting spread. You don't have to rent My Room to trade. Trading is a separate function that you can rent on its own if you so desire. You could also "trade" by renting My Shop, putting stuff up for sale, and having the person you're "trading" to buy it real quick. The only caveats are that the minimum price is 1000 meseta (so you probably wouldn't want to use it for trading monomates), and the (unlikely) possibly of getting ninjaed.

[Macman]

It's always subject to change, of course, but nothing cosmetic is a rental. Only My Room, My Shop, and trading are rentals, currently (unless I'm forgetting something). Currently, expanded storage is rental, yet expanded on-hand inventory is permanent. I don't know, either.

[NoiseHERO]

expanded on-hand inventory is permanent.

This was really and probably will be all I really need...

What is someone going to do with like... 200 item extra storage? @_@

But it seems like buying the premius package... you'd be forced to end up with it... so I'd be...

Not using something I paid for...

Ugh.

[BWS-1]

This was really and probably will be all I really need...

What is someone going to do with like... 200 item extra storage? @_@

But it seems like buying the premius package... you'd be forced to end up with it... so I'd be...

Not using something I paid for...

Ugh.

Well, do they plan on SELLING the game in the first place?

I remember paying 50$ for a game full of classes I didn't play, weapons I didn't use (with a section ID that got me weapons for a class I didn't play, but I didn't care/knew at the time) than about a year later, dish out another 50$ for a ''ver.2'' which still had a lot of content I wouldn't use since I'd play only one character and o, I guess the ability to reach level 200. AND that was now a P2P model... which then again, ended up being what, 5$ per month? That's a lot of money put on a lot of things I didn't use in the end. But that's ok, it's not like i feel like I'm missing out if I don't feel like playing a Force in the first place.

Not to mention most of the actual cool content on the DISC being locked/banned/''not even available since they shut down the server before they could update to unlock it'' or whatever reason they kept it sealed away forever.


Ah, those Dreamcast days... where we'd pay for a fraction of the content of a game and PAY to buy an ''alpha'' (ver1); then pay AND pay per month for the ''beta'' (ver2). Then off to release the actual game on another console! Good thing all THAT is behind. SEGA seems to be more transparent this time around, as in ''we're going with a F2P model, deal with it *puts on shades*''. Or they are pretty darn convincing/confident at least... but hey, can't really blame them for the ''experimentations'' of the past, that was one hell of a move to make such a type of game for console.

But yeeaaahh, if it's cheaper to ''get a room'' and ''max inventory space'' WITH the premium pack, needless to say that - using the other features or not - it's probably best to just go with it. And there you have it! A nice default monthly fee for some features you'll use and some that you won't... with a full game in front of you loaded with ''nicely coded'' F2P time sinks yet to be tackled! It's either going to be ''take forever to get something normally/never even manage or bother with the content'' or ''buy some AC to work your way through annoyances''. Nothing is forcing the purchase of course, no pressure... but leave that to the players or the ludicrous amount of limitations left and right to get to you.


Ah but I guess all this will hopefully be meaningless worries if I...

- Can play for at least an hour without being shoved a pop-up asking me for AC to unlock content/cheat-I mean- accelerate to a ''normal'' pace the access to basic features;

- Don't get quests leading to a reward that.... needs AC to get ''a license'' to use said reward (genius F2P concept, right? Shi- now I mentioned it... I bet this will actually happen [unless they already talked of stuff like that and I'm just unaware of it]);

- Can solo in this game without feeling like I'm levelling down/not progressing at all;

- Can team up without having to ''have 100 scape dolls on me, more moon atomizers that is required to revive an entire colony and a +10 million weapon'' or else no one will want to team up with me.

[Rauten]

- Can team up without having to ''have 100 scape dolls on me, more moon atomizers that is required to revive an entire colony and a +10 million weapon'' or else no one will want to team up with me.

I can assuage your fears about this one: your deaths affect only your ranking. No matter how many times you die, everyone else can still get their S Ranks.

[kdrakari]

- Don't get quests leading to a reward that.... needs AC to get ''a license'' to use said reward (genius F2P concept, right? Shi- now I mentioned it... I bet this will actually happen [unless they already talked of stuff like that and I'm just unaware of it]);

Team Fortress 2 had "crates" which were collected through normal gameplay, but could only be unlocked by buying a key with $$. I think GW2 has something similar too.

[Primobol]

Team Fortress 2 had "crates" which were collected through normal gameplay, but could only be unlocked by buying a key with $$. I think GW2 has something similar too.
Now that would be a ridiculous move. We got the Tekker, that's the "box opener". I can't imagine what my reaction would be if I got that magical noise and red box glance to find out I would need to put some more bucks in to use it. After some time I would probably react like: "oh hell no, another red bill".

On a sidenote, need to pay to be able to use a deleted character slot is bad too.

And I hope the Premium Set doesn't go over $10 a month because I don't get payed in US dollars and it is currently too high, like 2 times my currency, opposed to the ~1.65 it was some months ago.
I pay around USD8 monthly on WoW. Much more than that for PSO2 and I would feel ripped off. Not because of how much the game is worth (it will probably entertain me much more than WoW by now, as I'm getting sick of it already). But comparing the servers needed for both games, PSO2 can't cost much more than that monthly. (and I'm talking about the Premium Set alone, I'll still need to pay more to have extra characters etc.)