Patriot Act and Privacy

[washuguy]

How do you guys feel about this? I think this is going to far. I think our emotions and fears have been taken advantage of, and control has been exchanged for freedom. There's a quote by Benjamin Franklin that goes like this: Those that exchange freedom for safety deserve neither. And I'm seeing a lot of freedom given up, for "safety." The very people that we vote in, should be keeping me safe; And they're making me feel uneasy. Anyways... Am I being paranoid? How do you feel? Lets discuss.

Oh, also, I don't think enough people talk about this. As Americans, that makes me feel uneasy also. WE THE PEOPLE set the tone for the government, but its looking the other way around.


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Er-mEN7TIzE&feature=relmfu this one is about 16:00 mins. on patriot act


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pO0-t_3_QMs This one is over a minute on google and thier new privacy policy (How do you feel?)


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=j_YTM_eAWnQ This one is on gun control and if it reduces crime or not.

[Sinue_v2]

How do you guys feel about this?

Not a fan, but I have to admit I haven't really bothered looking into it enough to make an informed opinion on it.


I think our emotions and fears have been taken advantage of

I concur with that wholeheartedly. These past 11 years have been one long harangue of fear mongering, manufactured controversies, and (for the better part of it) a dissettling uber-patriotism which seeks to stifle criticism and debate on such issues. Still, it's not like people who are fed up with that shit haven't had their emotions and fears manipulated by others... be they tea-partiers/99%ers, 9/11 troofers, "sovereign citizens", and other such movements. Even those who oppose government over-reach like the Patriot Act often play to fears (rather than facts) to generate outrage and gain support.


And I'm seeing a lot of freedom given up, for "safety."

Depends on who you ask. I'd say we've gained more freedoms over the years than we've lost... especially if you're gay, black, female, Mormon, or any number of other persecuted groups who didn't have the good fortune to be born a land-owning white male. We've also gained a safe food supply, clean water, fresh air, safer workplaces, weekends/40 hour work week, national parks, a national highway/rail system, public education rather than child labor, and other amenities by limiting the freedoms of corporations, property owners, and private citizens.

This isn't to handwave away all of the negative ways in which laws have limited the freedoms of all but a few, and at a demonstrably negative impact on society. Overall though, I'd say we're doing fairly well considering how drastically society and the world has changed.

Besides, laws passed and enforced on the local level have a far bigger impact on your day to day life than what's passed on the federal level, and there are generally a hell of a lot more of them.

(One freedom I wish would be limited is the freedom for news agencies to lie and intentionally cherry pick or otherwise distort the facts for cheap ratings with manufactured controversies, ideological promotion, and slander. We used to have this in the form of the Fairness Doctrine, but it was gutted in '87. Most of our press now is borderline Yellow Journalism, except of course for Fox News who picked up the ball and ran with it all the way to the end-zone. Then out into the parking lot... and then just kept on running.)


The very people that we vote in, should be keeping me safe

It's actually not their job to keep you safe.


WE THE PEOPLE set the tone for the government, but its looking the other way around.

But "We the People" are not a singular voice, but a cacophony of 311 million individual voices all clamoring for different things. That all have different opinions on what the role of government should be. Our "democracy" ends at the election booth, and from there it is up to those elected representatives to do the job of running the country as they best see fit. If they do a poor job, the public can democratically vote them out.

[Randomness]

But "We the People" are not a singular voice, but a cacophony of 311 million individual voices all clamoring for different things. That all have different opinions on what the role of government should be. Our "democracy" ends at the election booth, and from there it is up to those elected representatives to do the job of running the country as they best see fit. If they do a poor job, the public can democratically vote them out.

Thank you.