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Zorian
Jun 26, 2012, 07:06 AM
So I did see a few other threads with some ideas but I wanted to make a thread talking about the Force Talent Tree. Right now I went with what most people are doing with:

3 Tech Damage Up
5 Fire Mastery
5 Fire Charge Boost S
1 Charge Tech PP Revival

I'm wondering where to put the rest of my points. I see a lot of people putting points into Bolt Tech PP Save but is that really worth it? Considering you could also simply boost Tech Damage for everything by going with either the first Talent in the tree or the Charge Damage Boost Talents you have unlocked in the Fire Tree?

I'm trying to debate on the best course of action for maximum damage. Also does anyone know how much damage the Tech Damage Up Talent boost will actually give you in terms of damage?

Just wanted to get some other players insight. I'm torn on what to spend the rest of my points on. Right now I mainly use RaFoie and GiGrants. I do use GiZonde occasionally but it feels somewhat buggy where it doesn't always hit the target and sometimes I feel like it travels to other targets but doesn't show/do the damage. Is Bolt Tech PP Save really worth it over the other damage boosting talents you could get or PP UP.

FenixStryk
Jun 26, 2012, 07:42 AM
I'm Level 28 currently; Bolt Tech PP Save is paying for itself. The concept of swarms of mobs being a threat, is completely nonexistent now. Hard Ragne's adds may as well not even spawn.

If you don't want Bolt Tech PP Save, max Flame Tech S Charge and go from there; it's the only alternative that I feel competes. Being able to throw out Fire techs at twice the speed is invaluable, to the point where I expect most Forces to have both PP Save and S Charge maxed when the cap hits 40.

Do not ignore these abilities. They are your biggest damage boost.

Zorian
Jun 26, 2012, 08:10 AM
Ya but you're stuck using Zonde forever with Bolt PP Save. If I went something like just pure tech power up with Tech Charge or the first talent in the tree I'd be able to use any spells I want whenever and they would all have extra damage.

Plus Bolt PP Save only works with the Zonde Tree Line Correct? So if you go that route you'd want to max out Bolt Mastery as well for the damage since you'll only be using Zonde spells for the most part.

I wish they have a Light Tree.. I also wonder if there will be a Wind/Dark Tree eventually.

Zyrusticae
Jun 26, 2012, 08:46 AM
Maximum damage? If that's what you want, you should strongly consider getting Photon Flare. The Tech Attack boost from that is pretty much ridiculous.

Edit: By the way, why stop at 5 points? A lot of these "talents" increase in effectiveness the more points you put into them, with points from 6-10 often being more effective point-for-point than points from 1-5.

Zorian
Jun 26, 2012, 09:04 AM
I tried out Photon Flare in Closed Beta. Its nice but it has a cooldown time and its so deep in the tree I think unless you really like Ice you're doing more harm then good going for it over other things.

High damage and sustainability seems like the way to go. Thats why I'm on the fence about Bolt Tech PP save. You're able to get out more cast but on the other hand you could be putting all those points into say PP up giving you a extra 50 PP to use for whatever.

You wouldn't stop at 5 points for a few of the things such as Bolt Tech since its not worth it really otherwise. I'm just debating on what would be best. I really don't want to stick with just one or two elements I like using all my techs when the need arises.

In reality Rafoie/GiZonde/GiGrants seem to be my go to.

We need to think thought when Wind and Dark and stronger light magic techniques come out they could be superior. I mean GiGrants at level 3 does massive damage as it is and we dont even have the level 5 disk yet. Would it be better to simply go for something that will give you more power across the board?

The things that do this are Tech Power Up (First Talent), Tech Charge Boost 1&2 (Fire Tree), Photon Flare (Ice Tree). PP Up would also be useful.

The reason I'm asking is boosting one Tech Charge Tree gives you 10% more damage to all charged spells so if you max both that's 20% more damage. Boosting one master tree such as Fire Master gives you 20% to fire flat out. I'm not sure how much Tech Power Up equates into damage as it gives 50 Tech Attack I think at 10.

Since Skill Resets are not free and you want to look at the where we are going as to where we are now. I don't want to shoot my self in the foot going for Bolt Tech PP save when new spells come out or when you just wont be using Bolt Spells that much.

Lightning Magic is good and it seems strong but its also boring to stick with one spell tree don't you agree? I'm just trying to make my force as strong as it can be with good sustainability in a fight. You're going to run out of force power either way buffing and healing along with attacking. Cards get it back easy if you need to charge it but every second you're recovering magic its more damage lost.

Hard Choices.

Zyrusticae
Jun 26, 2012, 09:11 AM
Well, it sounds to me like your mind's already made up. Just stick with things that aren't element-specific and that'll be more future-proof than specializing in an element.

Me, I've already poured a ton of points into bolt tech talents. It's just my kinda thing, really.

moeri
Jun 26, 2012, 09:16 AM
I'm Level 28 currently; Bolt Tech PP Save is paying for itself. The concept of swarms of mobs being a threat, is completely nonexistent now. Hard Ragne's adds may as well not even spawn.

If you don't want Bolt Tech PP Save, max Flame Tech S Charge and go from there; it's the only alternative that I feel competes. Being able to throw out Fire techs at twice the speed is invaluable, to the point where I expect most Forces to have both PP Save and S Charge maxed when the cap hits 40.

Do not ignore these abilities. They are your biggest damage boost.

I do agree it is a nice ability, but I find that this is a fairly lack luster ability when you take into account the fact that if you go into the fire tree... you are going to get PP charge revival

Yes in large groups of small enemies, where you do not have to worry about your PP pool as much, Flame Tech S Charge is amazing, but when you get to bosses that take huge amount of damage to take down... problems stat to come up... such as not having an unlimited pp pool

If you are finished charging and casting in half the time, then you are also diminishing the effectiveness of Charge PP Revival due to the reduced time to charge an ability. So, atleast on paper by having Charge PP revival (and limited PP reserves), you would instead want to go for higher damage to make each PP more effective, and to top things off... you are doubling your pp usage

The main problem with Flame Tech Charge S is that PP is the main limit to your damage, not the charge speed, though it will probably let you get off an extra attack here and there... I don't think this extra attack will be enough to make up for the PP starvation you will be facing with Flame Tech Charge S

For these reasons I believe Pure damage should be built if you are going into the Fire tree, though I am not sure if this is completely accurate because I have not done the math on it...

my planned build: http://ryuhiroshi.ry.funpic.de/pso2/force.html?00FO!IEkbI2e2Ixinj

I decided to go fire tree to try and be elementally neutral as possible, for future content releases

also 1 point into each element because the first point is 5% for each

Zorian
Jun 26, 2012, 09:32 AM
Ya what you have is something what I was thinking about going for. The one point in each mastery makes sense since it gives you 5-10% damage right off the bat I think for one point.

The only other things I'm considering are going for PP up (probably in the freeze tree since Freeze boost would be way more useful then shock boost) and raising the primary Tech Damage Up skill you start with. Does anyone know how much 50 Tech Power equates into damage?

Right now we don't have the points to go for both thought. Going down the freeze tree for photon flare might be worth it later on as more levels open up as well.

FenixStryk
Jun 26, 2012, 09:45 AM
The main problem with Flame Tech Charge S is that PP is the main limit to your damage, not the charge speed. If you are finished charging and casting in half the time, then you are also diminishing the effectiveness of Charge PP Revival due to the reduced time to charge an ability.Ah, but you have made an oversight: how, pray tell, do you spend the surplus of PP generated during your mag's Photon Burst? Without Flame Tech S Charge, you are bound to waste the tail end of it sitting pretty with a full PP bar.

Make no mistake, I agree that PP efficiency is key in maximizing Force's damage output; it is for this reason that every Force grabs PP Revival and Bolt Tech PP Save. However, even these two abilities ignore the lesser half of the puzzle: they don't have a PP dump during high-generation scenarios. It is only through Flame Tech S Charge that you can finally address this failing.

I encourage you to both plan beyond the Level 30 cap, and investigate exactly how potent Charge Tech Advance really is. I am led to believe that there are better ways to spend your SP...

moeri
Jun 26, 2012, 10:06 AM
Ah, but you have made an oversight: how, pray tell, do you spend the surplus of PP generated during your mag's Photon Burst? Without Flame Tech S Charge, you are bound to waste the tail end of it sitting pretty with a full PP bar.

Make no mistake, I agree that PP efficiency is key in maximizing Force's damage output; it is for this reason that every Force grabs PP Revival and Bolt Tech PP Save. However, even these two abilities ignore the lesser half of the puzzle: they don't have a PP dump during high-generation scenarios. It is only through Flame Tech S Charge that you can finally address this failing.

I encourage you to both plan beyond the Level 30 cap, and investigate exactly how potent Charge Tech Advance really is. I am led to believe that there are better ways to spend your SP...

Well, it seems I have much to learn, because I did not know my mag was giving me PP during its photon blast. Though photon blasts are fairly short... so I do not think it will be enough PP to make a difference in an extended battle.

I will look into this when I get back online

Though it is still only for fire techs, and I am worried... that putting things into one element might be a bit dangerous

You make a good point nonetheless and testing will need to be done to determine the effectiveness of the ability

I am still worried that a photon blast would give a huge spike in damage, then afterward damage output would again be lower, eventually overtaken by a character without Flame Tech S charge


I encourage you to both plan beyond the Level 30 cap, and investigate exactly how potent Charge Tech Advance really is. I am led to believe that there are better ways to spend your SP...

Precisely why I am so worried about spending points in particular elements

Misare
Jun 26, 2012, 10:24 AM
I'm not overly concerned about it since most of the talents honestly aren't that good. Then again, I've been a huge fan of the grants line of spells since PSO and most of the talents don't do much for light/dark based spells. I'm betting light/dark/wind talents are being saved for advanced classes later on down the road.

moeri
Jun 26, 2012, 10:37 AM
Yes... there is also the possibility that they might expand the tech tree

We really don't know what the future might hold

TecherRamen
Jun 26, 2012, 10:51 AM
I'm going for photon flare I'll let you know what it's like when I get there. Otherwise if I had spare points from going in this direction I might take more tech attach up just so that everything including light dark and wind techs will be more powerfully no matter what.

Zorian
Jun 26, 2012, 10:58 AM
Ah, but you have made an oversight: how, pray tell, do you spend the surplus of PP generated during your mag's Photon Burst? Without Flame Tech S Charge, you are bound to waste the tail end of it sitting pretty with a full PP bar.

Make no mistake, I agree that PP efficiency is key in maximizing Force's damage output; it is for this reason that every Force grabs PP Revival and Bolt Tech PP Save. However, even these two abilities ignore the lesser half of the puzzle: they don't have a PP dump during high-generation scenarios. It is only through Flame Tech S Charge that you can finally address this failing.

I encourage you to both plan beyond the Level 30 cap, and investigate exactly how potent Charge Tech Advance really is. I am led to believe that there are better ways to spend your SP...

Its a waste of points for a photon blast really. Even if you got it just for that sole purpose after its done you're back in the same situation. To be honest,if you look at it past 30 you're damage numbers are just going to get higher and higher make the % charge boost higher.

I also imagine that gear down the road will have more PP on it making the Bolt Tech PP Save less and less useful. Or you simply could dump into the PP talent to get 50 more PP which can be used all around. You have to factor in that Resta cost 30 or so as well its not cheap.

It seems most people are not factoring in the Wind and Dark tree that are not release as well as Light Magic. GiGrants is amazing and grants at level 1 does really good damage. You can stick with one element and level up the mastery since they are no weaknesses but why not have strong magic all around? It just seems boring to stay with Lightning because its the cheapest. You'll also probably end up doing more going all around.

If you stick to weaknesses this is very true since they do more damage.

For all we know Wind Magic could be the strongest like Earth was in PSU. It be more worth while to plan for that then to place all your tokens on Lightning.

I think people going for the lightning tree are placing all there coins into one basket. It seems if you go that tree you're setting yourself up to simply use Lightning always. I think its better to use the correct element on boss fights it seems. Especially like Vol Dragon where you can freeze his feet for example.

I guess in the end it wont matter you'll do fine with whatever way you go. You could go in with no Talents and S rank everything under the right time-limits with a team still.

Memorex
Jun 26, 2012, 02:46 PM
Its a waste of points for a photon blast really. Even if you got it just for that sole purpose after its done you're back in the same situation. To be honest,if you look at it past 30 you're damage numbers are just going to get higher and higher make the % charge boost higher.

I also imagine that gear down the road will have more PP on it making the Bolt Tech PP Save less and less useful. Or you simply could dump into the PP talent to get 50 more PP which can be used all around. You have to factor in that Resta cost 30 or so as well its not cheap.

It seems most people are not factoring in the Wind and Dark tree that are not release as well as Light Magic. GiGrants is amazing and grants at level 1 does really good damage. You can stick with one element and level up the mastery since they are no weaknesses but why not have strong magic all around? It just seems boring to stay with Lightning because its the cheapest. You'll also probably end up doing more going all around.

If you stick to weaknesses this is very true since they do more damage.

For all we know Wind Magic could be the strongest like Earth was in PSU. It be more worth while to plan for that then to place all your tokens on Lightning.

I think people going for the lightning tree are placing all there coins into one basket. It seems if you go that tree you're setting yourself up to simply use Lightning always. I think its better to use the correct element on boss fights it seems. Especially like Vol Dragon where you can freeze his feet for example.

I guess in the end it wont matter you'll do fine with whatever way you go. You could go in with no Talents and S rank everything under the right time-limits with a team still.


I'm planning for after the open beta, so I've mad the decision to put 5 into Barta, and Zonde, and I'm going to make T-Atk Up get to 5 cause its currently at 3.

But in the long run I plan to get charged teck, pp up, and just try to increase overall damage while still being able to use multiple kinds of techs to take down all the different bosses easier.

IMO I love the Force in this game.

Zorian
Jun 26, 2012, 03:02 PM
Ya I wish the talent trees were like they were in closed and more broad at the start and then you specialized deeper into the tree. Now you need to specialize and then get whatever is inside the tree currently. Some of which doesn't make any sense.

Photon Flare in the Ice tree? Really?

My only gripe with force right now is normal techs are worthless. You need to charge to make it worthwhile. I dont really even see the point of normal techs. I guess you could combo a spell from a Just Attack but it doesn't seem that worth while.

Randomness
Jun 26, 2012, 03:11 PM
Photon Flare in the Ice tree? Really?

Well, a Photon Flare'd Freeze Ignition would probably hit for 2k+. And then leave you time to nuke the living daylights out of anything still standing with Gigrants.

Memorex
Jun 26, 2012, 03:12 PM
Yeah I dont understand the reasoning behind making normal techs worthless.

Isn't there something in the Zonde tree that can increase normal techs damage? But then again how much can it really benefit when it costs the same as a charge tek lol.

I still havent found Grants, Shifta, and Deband.

I'm a FOmar...could that be the reason?

Randomness
Jun 26, 2012, 03:16 PM
Yeah I dont understand the reasoning behind making normal techs worthless.

Isn't there something in the Zonde tree that can increase normal techs damage? But then again how much can it really benefit when it costs the same as a charge tek lol.

I still havent found Grants, Shifta, and Deband.

I'm a FOmar...could that be the reason?

Grants can be gotten from NPC gifts, as can Shifta and Deband. Deband is a VERY rare drop, Shifta is presumably the same.

Memorex
Jun 26, 2012, 03:35 PM
I was jus readin that Maloo gives you Grants & GiGrants, any word on which NPC gives you Shifta or Deband?

Zorian
Jun 26, 2012, 03:37 PM
Echo gives you Deband and Shifta you need to do about 35-40 runs with her. GiGrants is amazing.

TerminalMontage
Jun 26, 2012, 03:39 PM
I was going to go with Photon Flare, but I decided against it and went with..

Flame Tech Charge, PP Revival, one point in Barta and Zonde to get that 5% to get the most mileage out of my SP, and the rest will go in Charge Tech Adv.

Photon Flare raises "force law" temporarily by 200, T-ATK up at level 10 raises force law by 50. So going with a percentage is much better in the long run than a base stat, unless they fix Photon Flare later to keep it strong, one day it could become very very weak.

But yes, Flame Tech Charge is nice, I get lots of Rafoies out fast, and with my photon blast (which fills up super fast) I can cast nonstop for it's duration. When the level cap is raised however, I want to go into Zonde then get PP save. A nice tactic I like to use consists of ZaZonde to make the enemy more susceptible to zonde and causes damage over time when hit, hit them with zonde, then unload with rafoie, if I burn them it's even better :)

PSO Addict
Jun 26, 2012, 04:01 PM
Freezies is enjoying the Barta tree. I thought about building into Foie for the sake of the extra PP, but it seems silly to split your points into two trees. I don't know quite yet how I'll spend all the points, but I plan to stay within the Barta tree and find that frost staff! I do have a problem with freeze ignition in that it takes a second or two to activate and your party and can tear through the ice before you can blow them up. It was fun doing a 700 blast to a weak point though.

Ueno54
Jun 26, 2012, 04:12 PM
Is it possible to respec at this point? Or will I have to wait for Sega to let us buy it from the item mall?

TerminalMontage
Jun 26, 2012, 04:25 PM
Is it possible to respec at this point? Or will I have to wait for Sega to let us buy it from the item mall?

Ya gotta wait I'm afraid.

Jonth
Jun 26, 2012, 04:59 PM
So, here's a theory, see what you guys think. I enjoy unloading my PP, and then smashing stuff with my staff. I don't want to tech constantly like the vast majority of you guys, but I do like to tech.

Since this is true for me, would it be a decent idea to dedicate myself to the fire tree? Seems like it meets my needs pretty well. I'll get to unload my PP faster thanks to Flame Charge S, even though I get to throw out a few more techs each unload thanks to PP Charge Revival. At this point, I get to smash stuff to get my PP back up to full, and then I repeat the process.

Maybe a few mathematicians can help me out here. Would my damage be comparable to someone who goes with Charge PP Revival and Bolt Tech PP Save? It doesn't take too long to get my PP back up to full since I like to stay in close proximity to the enemies, plus, staff damage doesn't seem to be horrible, so I'm still adding to the DPS even when I'm out of PP.

Randomness
Jun 26, 2012, 05:15 PM
Staff damage is actually fairly good...

Memorex
Jun 26, 2012, 05:31 PM
Staff damage is actually fairly good...

Yeah its pretty crazy, I have a +9 4 star staff and I'm doing 100+ on most enmies with strong attacks.

Major difference from the original pso.

Randomness
Jun 26, 2012, 05:48 PM
Yeah its pretty crazy, I have a +9 4 star staff and I'm doing 100+ on most enmies with strong attacks.

Major difference from the original pso.

I have that staff at +10, and it gives me more striking power than my gunblade.

It's not that surprising - rods were actually decently strong in power in PSO, they just had utter crap for an attack animation.

Jonth
Jun 26, 2012, 06:09 PM
So yeah, sounds like a good idea then. I tend to like lightening as an element better in general, but it looks like the better Battle Force build is to go with the fire tree.

EDIT: Also, calling this for the future. That hunter skill that increases PP regeneration when you are striking would be awesome on a battle force. That, along with the skills that increase striking power would be idea for a Force/Hunter (or Wartecher depending on how they do the classes). Combine all this with the fact that we have support techs, and you've got the ultimate Support Battle Force.

Gardios
Jun 26, 2012, 06:33 PM
I kinda get the feeling that Wind/Light/Dark will become an extra battle mage kind of class somewhere down the line... or at least I hope so.

TerminalMontage
Jun 26, 2012, 06:52 PM
So, here's a theory, see what you guys think. I enjoy unloading my PP, and then smashing stuff with my staff. I don't want to tech constantly like the vast majority of you guys, but I do like to tech.

Since this is true for me, would it be a decent idea to dedicate myself to the fire tree? Seems like it meets my needs pretty well. I'll get to unload my PP faster thanks to Flame Charge S, even though I get to throw out a few more techs each unload thanks to PP Charge Revival. At this point, I get to smash stuff to get my PP back up to full, and then I repeat the process.

Maybe a few mathematicians can help me out here. Would my damage be comparable to someone who goes with Charge PP Revival and Bolt Tech PP Save? It doesn't take too long to get my PP back up to full since I like to stay in close proximity to the enemies, plus, staff damage doesn't seem to be horrible, so I'm still adding to the DPS even when I'm out of PP.


I went with the fire tree, got Flame Charge S at 10, and PP Revival. You will do more damage than Zonde with Bolt Tech PP save, but you'll run out of PP quicker, fire is more burst damage and zonde is more sustained damage.

If you like high DPS like me, when they eventually raise the level cap and we get more SP you might like the build I want to do. Spec in Foie and Zonde, ZaZonde is a nifty tech that'll make the enemy more susceptible to zonde and when hit by zonde they'll take damage over time.

What I've been doing is, using Zazonde, then gizonde (or just zonde), then unloading my rafoies in, so he's taking electric damage over time, and i'll most likely burn him so he'll be taking that, as well as high rafoie damage. It's glorious and I can only imagine how much better it'll be if/when I go into the zonde part of the skill tree.

SuperChoco
Jun 26, 2012, 07:14 PM
I decided to put my points into the Zonde part of the tree, mainly focusing on the Bolt/PP save. Right now, it seems to work great, since Gizonde is such a great crowd controller.

Menochi
Jun 26, 2012, 07:17 PM
Just a little quip, but if you raised your mag with M Atk preference, then it also will have the PP regen skill that it can proc beyond just the photon blast. You can set the priority for it higher than the hp recovery, and it'll regen your pp rather frequently, consistently.

There is also the matter of PB recharging, which happens quicker when in large groups, thus using AoE attacks such as gizonde, thus not necessarily needing the 10 SP spent on reducing PP cost, but possibly still beneficial.

holmwood
Jun 26, 2012, 09:56 PM
I have the exact same skills as the TS.

I've invested in the lightning tree, specifically for the PP save, because the increase in attack for the Charged Tech passives is pretty unimpressive. If you were to invest all your points into it at level 30, you would only get a 15% dmg increase... Might as well be able to save a ridiculous amounts of pp and be able to DPS (As bosses become more complex, getting up close with your staff won't be a great idea. :/).

Personally, if they introduced the light passive, I would invest all my points into it. I love gigrant. XD

Zorian
Jun 27, 2012, 12:37 PM
I have the exact same skills as the TS.

I've invested in the lightning tree, specifically for the PP save, because the increase in attack for the Charged Tech passives is pretty unimpressive. If you were to invest all your points into it at level 30, you would only get a 15% dmg increase... Might as well be able to save a ridiculous amounts of pp and be able to DPS (As bosses become more complex, getting up close with your staff won't be a great idea. :/).

Personally, if they introduced the light passive, I would invest all my points into it. I love gigrant. XD

15% is quite a bit and you're not factoring in the extra damage from the weakness on top of that. You'll be getting both doing this as opposed to sticking with the one element and doing the base damage.

As for getting close with a staff on bosses. It wont ever be a big deal. For one most bosses have a ranged attack and two forces dodge is amazing in this game. They let you play like a Fomar with a gunblade so I don't really see the problem with this considering staff damage is not to bad.

Plus you can always switch to cards if you really wanted to.

I'm not sure how much the bonus damage is for using a element they are weak to but it seems to be a substantial amount. Then factor in the bonus from the charged damage. As for the light magic stuff. I do as well. I really think light magic is my favorite so far and I'm a bit bummed that there isn't anything other then these bonuses I can get for it.

I'm not sure the PP save is really worth it either. Zonde goes down to 8 or so but you'll mainly be using Gizonde when it matters. I find Razonde useless... unless you use it with cards but there are better thing to use. Gizonde goes down to 15 where as Rafoie is what 20? It doesn't really save you that much in the end.

GiZonde has the possibility to hit more targets but Gifoie can be used for this as well and works great as a barrier spell for adds in boss fights not to mention it burns. I dont know I don't think bolt save is as great as people make it out to be.

It helps but it doesn't give you that much of an edge as people make it out to be. Also.. I feel ZaZonde needs to do more damage to make it worth while.

holmwood
Jun 27, 2012, 03:15 PM
15% is quite a bit and you're not factoring in the extra damage from the weakness on top of that. You'll be getting both doing this as opposed to sticking with the one element and doing the base damage.

As for getting close with a staff on bosses. It wont ever be a big deal. For one most bosses have a ranged attack and two forces dodge is amazing in this game. They let you play like a Fomar with a gunblade so I don't really see the problem with this considering staff damage is not to bad.

Plus you can always switch to cards if you really wanted to.

I'm not sure how much the bonus damage is for using a element they are weak to but it seems to be a substantial amount. Then factor in the bonus from the charged damage. As for the light magic stuff. I do as well. I really think light magic is my favorite so far and I'm a bit bummed that there isn't anything other then these bonuses I can get for it.

I'm not sure the PP save is really worth it either. Zonde goes down to 8 or so but you'll mainly be using Gizonde when it matters. I find Razonde useless... unless you use it with cards but there are better thing to use. Gizonde goes down to 15 where as Rafoie is what 20? It doesn't really save you that much in the end.

GiZonde has the possibility to hit more targets but Gifoie can be used for this as well and works great as a barrier spell for adds in boss fights not to mention it burns. I dont know I don't think bolt save is as great as people make it out to be.

It helps but it doesn't give you that much of an edge as people make it out to be. Also.. I feel ZaZonde needs to do more damage to make it worth while.
Still a little iffy about the 15% boost.
I mean, if you did 1000 damage, you'll only deal 150 extra damage. And if you're dealling 10000 damage, you'll only deal 1500 extra damage... which by then would be the equivalent of one normal whack.

Tell me if I'm wrong here.

Additionally, whacking with a staff can be substituted with quick switching to gun blade for pp regeneration... and it really takes just a couple seconds to get full PP. So it seems the 15% boost would be a better alternative, although not a great one. (PP regen is really not an issue... :/)

Randomness
Jun 27, 2012, 03:17 PM
I feel ZaZonde needs to do more damage to make it worth while.

Has it been nerfed since CB? It can be stacked up too, and the ticking from one will trigger new ones. I haven't found a Sazonde disc yet, so haven't been able to try it out. (One of only two techs I don't have yet, sadly)

Alena Zouryx
Jun 28, 2012, 02:11 AM
I kinda get the feeling that Wind/Light/Dark will become an extra battle mage kind of class somewhere down the line... or at least I hope so.

There's no telling what Wind or Dark will have in their trees (if there's going to be additional trees, at all) but I can pretty much guarantee you that Light will probably be a support/healing boosting tree, seeing as how it also has Resta, Anti, and other recovery spells like Reverser (PSO) and Giresta (PSU/PS0) in the past.


Since I'd rather not just sit and wait, though, as a full-support Force, I'm going into the Ice tree, primarily for maxing PP Up 1 and Freeze Boost. I'd like to get Charge PP Revival, but I hardly ever use offensive techs (especially Foie ones), and when I do, they're Barta-class for the freeze chance (best status effect, imho) or Grants/Gigrants.

TerminalMontage
Jun 28, 2012, 03:18 AM
Still a little iffy about the 15% boost.
I mean, if you did 1000 damage, you'll only deal 150 extra damage. And if you're dealling 10000 damage, you'll only deal 1500 extra damage... which by then would be the equivalent of one normal whack.



Well those seem like small numbers in the long term, the game isn't even out yet and I'm willing to bet the level cap will be going pretty high, and so will the amount of damage you do. Soon those little percentages will be doing quite a bit.

Gama
Jun 28, 2012, 06:54 AM
gigrants is a really good crowd controll tech, grans well... good at autotargeting bosses that run away i guess.

Zorian
Jun 28, 2012, 07:23 AM
There's no telling what Wind or Dark will have in their trees (if there's going to be additional trees, at all) but I can pretty much guarantee you that Light will probably be a support/healing boosting tree, seeing as how it also has Resta, Anti, and other recovery spells like Reverser (PSO) and Giresta (PSU/PS0) in the past.


Since I'd rather not just sit and wait, though, as a full-support Force, I'm going into the Ice tree, primarily for maxing PP Up 1 and Freeze Boost. I'd like to get Charge PP Revival, but I hardly ever use offensive techs (especially Foie ones), and when I do, they're Barta-class for the freeze chance (best status effect, imho) or Grants/Gigrants.

Ya PP Up is such a nice skill giving 10 at max. Its pretty amazing that it adds another 10% to you're pool. The only problem is that its so deep in to the tree. The Burn/Freeze/Shock boost kinda of sucks as in the end it only gives you a extra 10% chance for 10 points. If the chance was higher it might be more worth while. Don't under estimated burn thought. Freeze is nice but it breaks really quickly in a party almost to the point of not making it worth while. It really should last a bit longer in a party. Burn, on the other hand can get damage in after you hit once and go back to supporting and even better it does % damage.

Well as of right now the JP wiki shows each element having 5 spells. Including wind and dark. Right now we have Anti, Resta, Grants, GiGrants. I'm not sure if they will be making reverser or if its been confirmed. There is one more light spell we just dont know what it is currently. It could be another attack for all we know.

Light is mostly support but grants and GiGrants especially are going to be strong. We only have access to grants one right now and it does good damage for a level one tech. GiGrants does a ton of damage AOE. In reality, even if we had no more light magic attacks this would be enough.

The reality is most people only stick to 1 or maybe two techs from a tree at tops. Most people for example use Rafoie, or Gizonde.

As for someone else earlier stating that they don't think the 15% is worth it. Remember that you need to factor in bonus weakness damage as well. If you spec into one tree and stick with that element that goes out the window on most fights as each area has a different weakness for the most part. If anything, fire/light would be the best bet since Darkness Creatures are everywhere.

I'm not sure how much the bonus damage is from using a weakness but you need to add that in on top of the 15% (20%) eventually if you max out both Charge Boost. To be honest I'd like to get both the Charge Boost and then work into PP UP. Combine stronger techs all around with recharging while charging and extra PP.

Sadly we don't even have close to enough points to accomplish this yet. As for Flame Charge S or whatever I think taking it to 5 is plenty. You gain about another 20% faster charge time but the charge is already so quick as it is. I think points spent in damage or trying to get more PP would be better.

As for the question on SaZonde I feel its just not worth it because it doesn't do great damage. Granted I don't have the level 5 disk yet (I don't think) and you need to charge it up hit then hit with some other lightning spell. When it procs it does roughly around the same amount of damage Zonde/GiZonde would do. Perhaps 50-100 more but the amount of work especially on bosses where you need to hit the same spot for it to trigger for the extra damage isn't at all worth it. The cost on it isn't great and you can get out damage far quicker just spamming a spell. I will admit it looks pretty cool thought. It should last longer at the same amount of damage (or go up in length based on leveling the spell) or simply just do more a tick.

I mean really why not just burn an enemy instead and do % damage for a while longer. Its not as strong on trash mobs but really... you're not going to be using SaZonde on trash anyways.

Alena Zouryx
Jun 28, 2012, 07:52 AM
Ya PP Up is such a nice skill giving 50 at max. Its pretty amazing that it adds another 50% to you're pool.

Are you sure about that? According to the JP wiki, it's just a total of +10 PP at rank 10.

Zorian
Jun 28, 2012, 08:06 AM
Are you sure about that? According to the JP wiki, it's just a total of +10 PP at rank 10.

Oops you're totally right it was 10 I'm not sure where I saw 50. Well that makes me feel better about not going into that tree. I think Charge Tech PP revival is way worth it then. I regenerate more then that before my bar is empty casting spells.

I guess it strengthens my argument to go for the Charge Boost/Fire instead.

HectorSirdam
Jun 28, 2012, 08:20 AM
Right now we have Anti, Resta, Grants, GiGrants. I'm not sure if they will be making reverser or if its been confirmed. There is one more light spell we just dont know what it is currently. It could be another attack for all we know.



The missing one is listed as an attack on the wiki, level 5 disc even.

Zorian
Jun 28, 2012, 08:27 AM
The missing one is listed as an attack on the wiki, level 5 disc even.

Well guess everyone will be using Moon's for reviving then. It hurts the support role a bit but it shouldn't really matter to much. You can also pipe up and grab more. I rather have more attacks..

On that note I really hope Shifta and Deband last a bit longer at higher levels. I mean 3-4 minutes would be nice even. Either way back to the discussion.

I'm still probably going to be going for the damage boost from charging. It just seems like the best to do when you're going to be using the element the enemy is weak to for the best damage.

Alena Zouryx
Jun 28, 2012, 08:45 AM
I really hope Shifta and Deband last a bit longer at higher levels.

That's what you'd think... but from personal experience (I pretty much do nothing but heal and buff) the duration is determined by how many "waves" of the charged tech hits the character. Each one seems to add 15 seconds. So all four waves hitting a player results in a minute of buff time. It's similar to how each "wave" of Resta heals for a certain amount. The level of the tech seems to only effect the amount that the stats are boosted.

As for Anti... The charged version not only cures ailments, but also prevents status ailments from being inflicted for a few seconds. I'm unsure of how many, exactly, but I'm sure it's probably less than 5 seconds of ailment immunity. Anti doesn't have "waves" like the other support techs do.

Also, on the JP wiki, it mentions Zodial, which might be a buff for the Ability/Skill stat. That's just my speculation, though. There's also "C-Zodial" listed under the Dark spells. Maybe that's a debuff of some sort.

Falxo
Jun 28, 2012, 08:50 AM
Hello everyone ! Been a lurker here for a few days (since the beginning of the Open Beta, in fact) and decided to register today because I wanted to talk about Force talents... and lo and behold, I found a thread already dedicated to such a discussion !

So, onto my opinions.


There's no telling what Wind or Dark will have in their trees (if there's going to be additional trees, at all) but I can pretty much guarantee you that Light will probably be a support/healing boosting tree, seeing as how it also has Resta, Anti, and other recovery spells like Reverser (PSO) and Giresta (PSU/PS0) in the past.


Since I'd rather not just sit and wait, though, as a full-support Force, I'm going into the Ice tree, primarily for maxing PP Up 1 and Freeze Boost. I'd like to get Charge PP Revival, but I hardly ever use offensive techs (especially Foie ones), and when I do, they're Barta-class for the freeze chance (best status effect, imho) or Grants/Gigrants.

This, right there, is more or less me. I am and have always been primarily a support Force player, and thus, I arrived to the same conclusions. Except I still went for PP Charge Revival, because it seemed awesome with every tech (Resta can be charged too !) and I do toss a few Fire techs here and there. Not to mention Shifta is a Fire tech too :P

But that's beside the point. The point is, I wanted my character to use primarily Ice technics, and just like Alena Zouryx whom I quoted, I thought that Freeze Boost and PP Up would be very good skills for a support Force, aiming at utility rather than DPS. In fact, my projected build at level 40 looks like this : http://ryuhiroshi.ry.funpic.de/pso2/force.html?00FO!IEkbI2dsHNIk6 (thanks to Gardios for this amazing tool, by the way)

BUT. That's not taking into account the numbers of these skills. Tell me if I'm wrong : is Freeze Boost really only 10% more freezing chance ? If so, do you think it's worth ten whole points ? Likewise for PP Up. I have seen conflicting sources claiming it was worth 33 PP, or even 55 (are those old numbers, maybe from the alpha/closed beta ?). But all evidence, including the points I invested into it, suggests that it's only 10 more PP. I think it's not a lot, especially as there are other ways to gain PP, and it's likely these alternative ways will keep getting better and better as a Force levels up and finds better gear. I fear that 10 PP will not make much of a difference at a high level... especially as it requires 10 SP.

To sum up, both the 10% freeze bonus and the 10 PP feel very underwhelming, considering how much these skills cost. Skills like Bolt Tech PP Save or PP Charge Revival give MUCH more value to the SP you invest into them.

What do you guys think ? Am I underestimating the value of these skills ? If not, is there a possibility that they will be buffed sometimes in the future, maybe when the actual game comes out ? Also, do feel free to give other suggestions as to what skills could be useful to a support Force :) (taking into account that I will not be afraid to respec when it's available if I screwed up)


Thank you for your time, and please pardon me if my English seems somewhat quirky. I've been studying the language for many years, but I'm not a native speaker, nor did I ever live in an English-speaking country, and well... it can show :P

Alena Zouryx
Jun 28, 2012, 09:12 AM
Welcome to PSOW!! Great to see another light and ice support Force. :D

Your planned build is exactly the same as mine, ironically. Although I'm considering not going into PP Up since it's only +10 for 10 points. I'm wondering if it'd be better for me to put those skill points into something like charged tech attack boost (which would also boost the strength of charged Resta, presumably).

To answer your questions, yes. With 10 points into Freeze Boost, it's 110%. That's the same for the other two status effect boost talents, as well.

I'd also like to go into Tech defense, 'cause being defensive is what a support is all about... but it's so far down the tree, it's probably not gonna happen. But a +50 Tech Defense increase at max is pretty substantial. And bosses and mobs in harder difficulties will undoubtedly be technic-spammers.

Personally, after putting just a few points into Freeze Boost, I'm noticing a drastic increase in the times my Rabarta freezes enemies. I'm probably going to maximize it for the utility, just as you said.

As for the PP Up... I'm not sure if that is worth it unless you were to put points into both the Ice and Shock PP Up skills, and that would require far too many skill points. I think I'm going to skip out on the PP Up talents unless they increase the amount of PP that they provide. +10 PP isn't really worth 10 talent points... but I do think +110% freeze chance is awfully substantial.

Oh... and your English is fantastic for a non-native of the language! I'm impressed! :)

Zorian
Jun 28, 2012, 09:52 AM
Welcome to PSOW!! Great to see another light and ice support Force. :D

Your planned build is exactly the same as mine, ironically. Although I'm considering not going into PP Up since it's only +10 for 10 points. I'm wondering if it'd be better for me to put those skill points into something like charged tech attack boost (which would also boost the strength of charged Resta, presumably).

To answer your questions, yes. With 10 points into Freeze Boost, it's 110%. That's the same for the other two status effect boost talents, as well.

I'd also like to go into Tech defense, 'cause being defensive is what a support is all about... but it's so far down the tree, it's probably not gonna happen. But a +50 Tech Defense increase at max is pretty substantial. And bosses and mobs in harder difficulties will undoubtedly be technic-spammers.

Personally, after putting just a few points into Freeze Boost, I'm noticing a drastic increase in the times my Rabarta freezes enemies. I'm probably going to maximize it for the utility, just as you said.

As for the PP Up... I'm not sure if that is worth it unless you were to put points into both the Ice and Shock PP Up skills, and that would require far too many skill points. I think I'm going to skip out on the PP Up talents unless they increase the amount of PP that they provide. +10 PP isn't really worth 10 talent points... but I do think +110% freeze chance is awfully substantial.

Oh... and your English is fantastic for a non-native of the language! I'm impressed! :)

I can't imagine its that big of a boost if it only is 10% at max. Either its a stroke of luck, the skill is wrong or you're just noticing it more since you put points into it. I still think that freeze needs work to make it more useful. It breaks super fast usually in under a second if you're in a mass of enemies with a party. I just don't see it as being that useful.

If the PP up is really only 10 points its not worth it. 10 points can be used on so many other things. If your deadset on ice I'd use it on getting ice mastery. You could also go for freeze ignition which is nice but once again in a party its way to hard to pull off. It takes over 1-2 seconds to cast from what I understand.

Right now if you want Charge PP Revival it takes 14 SP. You're also have to boost your fire damage and cast speed time to get it. At this point you're left with 16 SP. 26 once the cap hits 40. For the below I"m going to base everything off getting Charge PP Revival since it seems like one of the best skills out of all the trees to get.

At this point you have a few options.

Option 1:
http://ryuhiroshi.ry.funpic.de/pso2/force.html?00FO!IE4OIkeX0
Heavy Fire
126% Charged Fire Damage 50% Charge Speed Increase
106% Charged Damage for all other elements

Option 2:
http://ryuhiroshi.ry.funpic.de/pso2/force.html?00FO!IE4OI22SIg8
Balanced Build
125% Charge Fire Damage 78% Fire Charge Speed
116% Charged Damage for all other elements.

Option 3:
Bolt Build
http://ryuhiroshi.ry.funpic.de/pso2/force.html?00FO!IE4OI2dsInfbncAf
109% Fire Damage 78% Fire Charge Speed
105% Ice Damage
109% Bolt Damage / Bolt Spells cost 10 less PP

Option 4:
Ice Build (What you guys are talking about above)
http://ryuhiroshi.ry.funpic.de/pso2/force.html?00FO!IE4OI2dsHNinj
109% Fire Damage 78% Fire Charge Speed
109% Ice Damage 10% Boosted Freeze Chance
105% Bolt Damage
Note: This build could be switched around to use freeze ignition/ or Ice Mastery for more damage.

Those look like the 4 best options. To be honest I think the ice build looks to be the weakest out of all the choices here with Charge Revival. I still plan on doing option 2. Even if you wanted to go Heavy Fire.. option 2 is almost better. You're losing out on a bit of charge time and 1% damage but gaining 16% damage for all the other elements as well.

The bolt build is very popular for good reason. You'll be able to cast a lot more the downside is you'll be relying on lightning solely most of the time. Which hurts you a bit since you put so many points into Fire for the Revival. Thought the last point could be switched from ice to something else. I just did that since Ice gives you the best damage boost for one SP at that point.

Falxo
Jun 28, 2012, 09:57 AM
Thank you for your welcome and tips !

I think you're right about +10% freeze being substantial. Maybe I was just too fixated on the fact that 1 SP was worth 1%, as well as the skill not having increasing returns as opposed to some other skills, like the elemental masteries. At the end of the day, 10 SP is a lot, but since I'm not aiming to dish out a lot of damage, it makes more sense to put them there rather than, say, Freeze Ignition just next to it. It looks like a fun skill, just not what I want for my character :D

So yeah, I think I will be ditching PP Up and taking your advice about Tech Charged Advance. It's already unlocked if I take Charge PP Revival anyway, so it seems like a sensible choice :)

I alos agree about Tech Defense, it looks good for a support Force, but the sheer cost makes it probably not worth it. Higher levels may prove me wrong, if indeed deadly technics begin flying left and right... :P In any case, a flat stat boost like that shouldn't be so deep down in the skill tree, in my opinion, but I think I can live with it.

Thank you again for your help ;) I think I'll continue to follow this thread, and probably even post again if I have something worthwhile to say :D

Alena Zouryx
Jun 28, 2012, 10:01 AM
Those look like the 4 best options.

For most Forces, yes. Because most Forces are geared toward offense. I'm a full-support Force, however.

Zorian
Jun 28, 2012, 10:14 AM
For most Forces, yes. Because most Forces are geared toward offense. I'm a full-support Force, however.

There really isn't much for a support force in this game sadly. Resta, Anti and Shifta/Deband are all you get. This is not a full time job unless you have a really really bad team. Unless you want to sit around and be a buff bot. Even then buffing only takes 10 seconds at best. Throw in a resta and you're still left with over half a minute where you need to attack.

Even in PSU there really wasn't a full support role. You would cast your 4 buffs and use Resta/Giresta and throw Diga balls all over the place.

Even for full support you'd be better off going something else then ice. I'd almost say go bolt. Lower the cost of your lightning magic to save you more PP for Resta/Buffs. Freeze payoff in parties isn't good. You'd be better shocking or burning something.

Charge Tech Advance may also buff Resta healing but I'm not sure if it does or not at this point. Case in point you're still attacking more then supporting even if you want to play full support. Otherwise you're not optimizing your time.

Falxo
Jun 28, 2012, 01:22 PM
I can't imagine its that big of a boost if it only is 10% at max. Either its a stroke of luck, the skill is wrong or you're just noticing it more since you put points into it. I still think that freeze needs work to make it more useful. It breaks super fast usually in under a second if you're in a mass of enemies with a party. I just don't see it as being that useful.

If the PP up is really only 10 points its not worth it. 10 points can be used on so many other things. If your deadset on ice I'd use it on getting ice mastery. You could also go for freeze ignition which is nice but once again in a party its way to hard to pull off. It takes over 1-2 seconds to cast from what I understand.

Right now if you want Charge PP Revival it takes 14 SP. You're also have to boost your fire damage and cast speed time to get it. At this point you're left with 16 SP. 26 once the cap hits 40. For the below I"m going to base everything off getting Charge PP Revival since it seems like one of the best skills out of all the trees to get.

At this point you have a few options.

Option 1:
http://ryuhiroshi.ry.funpic.de/pso2/force.html?00FO!IE4OIkeX0
Heavy Fire
126% Charged Fire Damage 50% Charge Speed Increase
106% Charged Damage for all other elements

Option 2:
http://ryuhiroshi.ry.funpic.de/pso2/force.html?00FO!IE4OI22SIg8
Balanced Build
125% Charge Fire Damage 78% Fire Charge Speed
116% Charged Damage for all other elements.

Option 3:
Bolt Build
http://ryuhiroshi.ry.funpic.de/pso2/force.html?00FO!IE4OI2dsInfbncAf
109% Fire Damage 78% Fire Charge Speed
105% Ice Damage
109% Bolt Damage / Bolt Spells cost 10 less PP

Option 4:
Ice Build (What you guys are talking about above)
http://ryuhiroshi.ry.funpic.de/pso2/force.html?00FO!IE4OI2dsHNinj
109% Fire Damage 78% Fire Charge Speed
109% Ice Damage 10% Boosted Freeze Chance
105% Bolt Damage
Note: This build could be switched around to use freeze ignition/ or Ice Mastery for more damage.

Those look like the 4 best options. To be honest I think the ice build looks to be the weakest out of all the choices here with Charge Revival. I still plan on doing option 2. Even if you wanted to go Heavy Fire.. option 2 is almost better. You're losing out on a bit of charge time and 1% damage but gaining 16% damage for all the other elements as well.

The bolt build is very popular for good reason. You'll be able to cast a lot more the downside is you'll be relying on lightning solely most of the time. Which hurts you a bit since you put so many points into Fire for the Revival. Thought the last point could be switched from ice to something else. I just did that since Ice gives you the best damage boost for one SP at that point.

I hadn't seen this post before my last reply ! Thank you for your tips.

I am not really deadset on ice, it's just a personal preference, but I do agree that the ice tree seems somewhat weaker than the others. Correct me if I'm wrong, but it seems that most builds involve either maxed Bolt Tech PP save for excellent PP efficiency, at the cost of being "stuck" with lightning most of the time, or Charge PP Revival, which is a bit more versatile even if you have to put 10 points into fire before you can learn it. The ice tree doesn't seem to be able to stand on its own.

That being said, I still think Freeze Boost is a good support skill, especially in large crowds, as it can reduce the number of monsters piling up on the poor hunters. The only qualm I have with it is the 10% boost, which seems kinda weak for the 10 SP it costs, but it's still better than PP Up :D At the very least, I think it's worth a try.

You are also right about the fact that there's no true full-support role in PSO2, as evidenced by the complete absence (at least for now) of masteries for support spells like Resta or Deband. It's not necessarily a bad thing : Phantasy Star games since PSO have never tried to lock the players in a required party composition like you could see in an MMORPG, with a tank, a healer, a dps... Hell, back in PSO itself, even my FOmarl, whose class was designed to be the best supporter in the game, still spent a lot of time spamming Rafoie. PSO2 is the same. It seems to be designed to easily allow anyone to team up with anyone, and even play alone effectively (which was still kinda hard with a FOmarl, by the way :D).

That being said, it doesn't mean we can't build to be defensive and babysit the team to the best of our ability ! I'm sticking with Freeze Boost for now and then we'll see. Shock boost also seems nice for crowd-control, but I think Ice techs are really awesome with cards... which are themselves a good choice for support Forces, seeing as you can heal without putting yourself in danger, and the Tech stat given by Rods aren't as important as it is for an offensive Force (at least, Ithink so).

Plus, freezing Vol Dragon is hilarious.

TecherRamen
Jun 28, 2012, 01:28 PM
http://ryuhiroshi.ry.funpic.de/pso2/force.html?00FO!IEGOHdiAiAj

Just pump the base stat. charge pp revival is cool and so is a fast charge of flame techs. but you end up having to attack to recharge pp anyway right (i went ice tree =P)? Its easy enough to quickly restore pp using a talis. Taking this build makes you versatile and super strong ending up with an extra 100 force law in the end. +100 force law is like always having a lvl 5 phton flare active.

I might consider re-specing to this some day.

Zorian
Jun 28, 2012, 01:39 PM
http://ryuhiroshi.ry.funpic.de/pso2/force.html?00FO!IEGOHdiAiAj

Just pump the base stat. charge pp revival is cool and so is a fast charge of flame techs. but you end up having to attack to recharge pp anyway right (i went ice tree =P)? Its easy enough to quickly restore pp using a talis. Taking this build makes you versatile and super strong ending up with an extra 100 force law in the end. +100 force law is like always having a lvl 5 phton flare active.

I might consider re-specing to this some day.

The problem with getting T-Attack up is its a flat number and not a percentage. So as time goes on if you do stay this class that +100 force law might be a drop in the bucket. Its much safer to go with the bet of using Force Tech Charge for damage since it gives flat percentages.

While that extra 100 power may be stronger now (I'm not sure how it computes into damage). It may not be in the long run. You're also missing out on Charge PP Revival then or Bolt Tech.

Yes its true eventually you'll have to recharge PP no matter what and it is easy. But with Revival you're getting at least 1-2 more spells out before that time each time you empty the bar. The fast charge of flame tech is only there to get to that ability and the % damage up. This way you're getting a bit of a bonus to fire but still have that extra damage apply to all trees.

@Falxo - You can build defensive but really most of the bosses wont be on you. Our damage lies in AOE most of the time (it may change in the future) and the hunter or ranger that is focusing solely on damage will always be doing more since its more focused damage. Also, unless you're dieing in one hit usually you don't need to build defensively. We have Resta after all. Plus its only technic defense. It may be better later on if we have Megid throws that do instant death like PSU but still you already have the highest Tech Defense possible running a force (especially if you're newman/girl).

Seems like a waste of points to up this stat because of this. Perhaps if it was striking defense it be better especially if you wanted to play like a Fomar.

Darki
Jun 28, 2012, 02:00 PM
Damn, I think I f***ed my skilltree. I maxed by accident Flame Mastery, and by getting Charge PP Revival I have only 10 points left to spend, like this (http://ryuhiroshi.ry.funpic.de/pso2/force.html?00FO!IEkbIkds0).

I guess I'll be getting a reset to fix the mess then put the points in something useful.

TerminalMontage
Jun 28, 2012, 02:12 PM
Don't do the base stat, that's good in the short term but when the level cap is raised passed 40 you'll want percentage based stats.

Here's an anology, a level 100 mag will help a level 1 character a lot. But a level 100 character with a level 100 mag won't notice too much of a difference.

Zorian
Jun 28, 2012, 02:14 PM
Damn, I think I f***ed my skilltree. I maxed by accident Flame Mastery, and by getting Charge PP Revival I have only 10 points left to spend, like this (http://ryuhiroshi.ry.funpic.de/pso2/force.html?00FO!IEkbIkds0).

I guess I'll be getting a reset to fix the mess then put the points in something useful.

You really didn't mess it up if anything you part way in to making something like I had in build 1 on my other post. You could still also just dump the rest into tech Boost Charge. You'd be missing 6% from the over all charge damage but still have the damage in Fire.
So you'd sit at

130% Fire Boost Charge 78% Fire Charge Time
110% All other Element Charge

Just Reversal isn't bad just I didn't feel like it was needed. It can be in handy you do get knocked down by quite a few things. Getting up early isn't always beneficial.

TecherRamen
Jun 28, 2012, 02:15 PM
According to the JP wiki this is what level 100 stats look like. So a flat increase of 100 law is still a little over a 20% increase in power to everything..

Race HP Striking power Shooting power Impulsive force law Workmanship Defense blow Fire protection Defense attack method
Human ♂ 583 364 381 450 456 357 340 470
Human ♀ 578 350 381 468 461 340 340 493
Newman ♂ 528 350 377 486 452 340 357 470
Newman ♀ 522 350 377 495 452 340 340 493
♂ cast 594 367 384 432 465 357 340 446
♀ cast 589 364 388 432 465 340 357 446

Sp-24
Jun 28, 2012, 02:15 PM
Where did they get those stats from, anyway? I haven't noticed, do we get exactly the same stat points with each level?

TecherRamen
Jun 28, 2012, 02:16 PM
The problem with getting T-Attack up is its a flat number and not a percentage. So as time goes on if you do stay this class that +100 force law might be a drop in the bucket. Its much safer to go with the bet of using Force Tech Charge for damage since it gives flat percentages.

While that extra 100 power may be stronger now (I'm not sure how it computes into damage). It may not be in the long run. You're also missing out on Charge PP Revival then or Bolt Tech.

Yes its true eventually you'll have to recharge PP no matter what and it is easy. But with Revival you're getting at least 1-2 more spells out before that time each time you empty the bar. The fast charge of flame tech is only there to get to that ability and the % damage up. This way you're getting a bit of a bonus to fire but still have that extra damage apply to all trees.

@Falxo - You can build defensive but really most of the bosses wont be on you. Our damage lies in AOE most of the time (it may change in the future) and the hunter or ranger that is focusing solely on damage will always be doing more since its more focused damage. Also, unless you're dieing in one hit usually you don't need to build defensively. We have Resta after all. Plus its only technic defense. It may be better later on if we have Megid throws that do instant death like PSU but still you already have the highest Tech Defense possible running a force (especially if you're newman/girl).

Seems like a waste of points to up this stat because of this. Perhaps if it was striking defense it be better especially if you wanted to play like a Fomar.

According to the JP wiki this is what level 100 stats look like. So a flat increase of 100 law is still a little over a 20% increase in power to everything..

Race HP Striking power Shooting power Impulsive force law Workmanship Defense blow Fire protection Defense attack method
Human ♂ 583 364 381 450 456 357 340 470
Human ♀ 578 350 381 468 461 340 340 493
Newman ♂ 528 350 377 486 452 340 357 470
Newman ♀ 522 350 377 495 452 340 340 493
♂ cast 594 367 384 432 465 357 340 446
♀ cast 589 364 388 432 465 340 357 446

TecherRamen
Jun 28, 2012, 02:18 PM
Where did they get those stats from, anyway? I haven't noticed, do we get exactly the same stat points with each level?

I honestly never wrote it down, although I meant to..

this is the jp wiki of stat comparisons. it is unforunately incomplete

http://translate.googleusercontent.com/translate_c?act=url&hl=en&ie=UTF8&prev=_t&rurl=translate.google.com&sl=ja&tl=en&u=http://wikiwiki.asia/pso2/index.php%3F%25A5%25B9%25A5%25C6%25A1%25BC%25A5%25 BF%25A5%25B9&usg=ALkJrhgC8g7q7qgy36oO0qJtTtdUO7md2g

Zorian
Jun 28, 2012, 02:18 PM
According to the JP wiki this is what level 100 stats look like. So a flat increase of 100 law is still a little over a 20% increase in power to everything..

Race HP Striking power Shooting power Impulsive force law Workmanship Defense blow Fire protection Defense attack method
Human ♂ 583 364 381 450 456 357 340 470
Human ♀ 578 350 381 468 461 340 340 493
Newman ♂ 528 350 377 486 452 340 357 470
Newman ♀ 522 350 377 495 452 340 340 493
♂ cast 594 367 384 432 465 357 340 446
♀ cast 589 364 388 432 465 340 357 446

Perhaps off base stats yes. This doesn't factor in gear or weapons. Which we have no clue on currently. Weapons already give around 200 ungrinded at level 20-30. I don't see this as being as big of a increase as you think. Lets not forget to add in armor and the Mag as well.

Would you rather have 20% more then your base stat of tech power or 20% more of your base state + gear/weapons/mag for damage? This just shows you that you should go for tech charge instead.

TecherRamen
Jun 28, 2012, 02:21 PM
These stats are all kinds of messed up. i looked closer at the page there are discrepancies between lvl 30 and lvl 100 of the same job and class. as in lvl 30 has higher of one stat. so who knows what those numbers actually are? Lvl 10 maybe?

Sorry for the bad info

Zorian
Jun 28, 2012, 02:24 PM
These stats are all kinds of messed up. i looked closer at the page there are discrepancies between lvl 30 and lvl 100 of the same job and class. as in lvl 30 has higher of one stat. so who knows what those numbers actually are? Lvl 10 maybe?

Sorry for the bad info

No worries but I do imagine the numbers would only go up and not down making the tech up skill less useful. I would stay away from it unless you want the boost now and wish to respec later.

TecherRamen
Jun 28, 2012, 02:35 PM
So when you have the power of a spell (i.e. foie, barta, etc). Is that number a quantity or a percentage?

Zorian
Jun 28, 2012, 02:47 PM
So when you have the power of a spell (i.e. foie, barta, etc). Is that number a quantity or a percentage?

I'm actually not 100% sure on this. I haven't done much research into how the damage is calculated to be honest. I just know that the tech charge is 20% off what would be hitting I'd imagine.

TecherRamen
Jun 28, 2012, 02:49 PM
just for reference here is the jp wiki of the skills and corresponding descriptions:

http://translate.googleusercontent.com/translate_c?act=url&hl=en&ie=UTF8&prev=_t&rurl=translate.google.com&sl=ja&tl=en&u=http://wikiwiki.asia/pso2/index.php%3F%25A5%25D5%25A5%25A9%25A1%25BC%25A5%25 B9&usg=ALkJrhjVgGyKcwNf-3feqFxaDh57-7Nc_Q#c6c972dc

and techs

http://translate.googleusercontent.com/translate_c?act=url&hl=en&ie=UTF8&prev=_t&rurl=translate.google.com&sl=ja&tl=en&u=http://wikiwiki.asia/pso2/index.php%3F%25A5%25D5%25A5%25A9%25A5%25C8%25A5%25 F3%25A5%25A2%25A1%25BC%25A5%25C4%25A1%25A6%25A5%25 C6%25A5%25AF%25A5%25CB%25A5%25C3%25A5%25AF%252F%25 A5%25C6%25A5%25AF%25A5%25CB%25A5%25C3%25A5%25AF&usg=ALkJrhj_nU94aR8wqrZNQSmZyq2NzJ87yA

Bibimbap
Jun 28, 2012, 03:13 PM
My tree is/will be:

10 Tech Damage Up
5 Fire Mastery
5 Fire Charge Boost S
1 Charge Tech PP Revival
9 Charge Tech Damage Up

In regards to advice, I think you should just pick the one skill that stands out the most to you and level towards and around it. Stats/builds don't really make a huge difference in this game. Your personal skill along with utilizing what you do pick in your skill tree will get you through just fine.

To people who say percent is better than solid Tech Damage boosts, it depends what you're going for. Yes, if we get to level 100 the percent will be better, but that's a distant if. Also, boosting your damage will only boost your damage, while boosting your Tech Damage through skill tree will give you more options on what you want to boost through your weapons and units.

Zorafim
Jun 28, 2012, 03:56 PM
Hey, uh, still haven't leveled force very high here, but I wanted to check this before I make any mistakes. Since Levia's a water sprite and all, I wanted to go pure ice. By the looks of things though, ice seems to be the least useful tree to go down. This, coupled by a lack of tech mags (maybe once the full version's released, if they aren't too expensive), means I'm probably going to do less damage than I'd like.

So, if going pure ice, what looks good? I was thinking about maxing Photon Flare first so I could at least have some burst when I need to press my advantage. After that, boosting ice tech damage so I have more of a reason to use ice when not in caves. Then cap freeze chance, since that's what ice is all about. And lastly, capping Freeze Ignition to take advantage of my greater freeze chance.

I don't like static stat boost abilities, since they tend to become less useful in future levels. So tech attack boost doesn't seem all that great to me. And I don't like boosting my PP, since I like to juggle my PP below its cap. So my lv30 build would look like this (http://ryuhiroshi.ry.funpic.de/pso2/force.html?00FO!IE4Oj4IbnIkj).

Those of you forces with more experience than me, how does this look?

TecherRamen
Jun 28, 2012, 04:11 PM
Hey, uh, still haven't leveled force very high here, but I wanted to check this before I make any mistakes. Since Levia's a water sprite and all, I wanted to go pure ice. By the looks of things though, ice seems to be the least useful tree to go down. This, coupled by a lack of tech mags (maybe once the full version's released, if they aren't too expensive), means I'm probably going to do less damage than I'd like.

So, if going pure ice, what looks good? I was thinking about maxing Photon Flare first so I could at least have some burst when I need to press my advantage. After that, boosting ice tech damage so I have more of a reason to use ice when not in caves. Then cap freeze chance, since that's what ice is all about. And lastly, capping Freeze Ignition to take advantage of my greater freeze chance.

I don't like static stat boost abilities, since they tend to become less useful in future levels. So tech attack boost doesn't seem all that great to me. And I don't like boosting my PP, since I like to juggle my PP below its cap. So my lv30 build would look like this (http://ryuhiroshi.ry.funpic.de/pso2/force.html?00FO!IE4Oj4IbnIkj).

Those of you forces with more experience than me, how does this look?

I would not give so much to photon flare. Basically you can get a boost in dp for 30s out of every 2 minutes (I am adding in 10s to recast).

I dont realy like it. Its a nice increase in damage especially for a boss, BUT bosses move around and a clear shot at anything for 30s uninterrupted is kind of rare. It is good for code elimination(? the one with rappies), or for other codes. But if you want strait Ice id say forget it.

Check the stats here: http://translate.googleusercontent.com/translate_c?act=url&hl=en&ie=UTF8&prev=_t&rurl=translate.google.com&sl=ja&tl=en&u=http://wikiwiki.asia/pso2/index.php%3F%25A5%25D5%25A5%25A9%25A1%25BC%25A5%25 B9&usg=ALkJrhjVgGyKcwNf-3feqFxaDh57-7Nc_Q#c6c972dc

The wiki even says its kind of useless. and after thinking about it i'd tend to agree.

I already have points in it so im going to take it untill lvl 6.

personally I say that this would be a stronger ice build

FO Lv 30/30 (00FO!IEkbjaIcA6)
 1: Mirage Escape
 3: T-ATK Up 1
 9: Ice Mastery 1
10: Freeze Boost
8: Freeze Ignition

Freeze ignition is rediculous basically if you get swarmed and freeze everything you can destroy it in one shot freeze boost helps with this. it has a 60s cool down but thats not so bad
Also some bosses and sub-bosses can be frozen(the dragon's feet, the worms in the caves)

For Comparison Here is the build I am pursuing
http://ryuhiroshi.ry.funpic.de/pso2/force.html?00FO!IEkbjyIcfgj
FO Lv 30/30 (00FO!IEkbjyIcfgj)
 1: Mirage Escape
 1: Just Reversal
 3: T-ATK Up 1
 5: Ice Mastery 1
 7: Freeze Boost
 8: Freeze Ignition
 6: Photon Flare

Zorafim
Jun 28, 2012, 04:29 PM
You get 200 points at cap? That's bit more than what I get passive from fury stance, and at a severely diminished time frame. Now that's a shame.

Well, that's about the only neat thing ice gets. I guess I'm stuck freezing and shattering everything then. Looks like I'll be looking more like this (http://ryuhiroshi.ry.funpic.de/pso2/force.html?00FO!IE4OjJIbN6).

Randomness
Jun 28, 2012, 04:30 PM
Hey, uh, still haven't leveled force very high here, but I wanted to check this before I make any mistakes. Since Levia's a water sprite and all, I wanted to go pure ice. By the looks of things though, ice seems to be the least useful tree to go down. This, coupled by a lack of tech mags (maybe once the full version's released, if they aren't too expensive), means I'm probably going to do less damage than I'd like.

So, if going pure ice, what looks good? I was thinking about maxing Photon Flare first so I could at least have some burst when I need to press my advantage. After that, boosting ice tech damage so I have more of a reason to use ice when not in caves. Then cap freeze chance, since that's what ice is all about. And lastly, capping Freeze Ignition to take advantage of my greater freeze chance.

I don't like static stat boost abilities, since they tend to become less useful in future levels. So tech attack boost doesn't seem all that great to me. And I don't like boosting my PP, since I like to juggle my PP below its cap. So my lv30 build would look like this (http://ryuhiroshi.ry.funpic.de/pso2/force.html?00FO!IE4Oj4IbnIkj).

Those of you forces with more experience than me, how does this look?

Well, I'm not sold on Flare, and Freeze Ignition is fairly potent... I'm not sure how significant the Freeze boost skill ends up being overall... I don't know how the final rate is determined.

Including points I've spread around, I'm currently looking at something like this myself: http://ryuhiroshi.ry.funpic.de/pso2/force.html?00FO!IE4OIbf4IcAIcj

The one point over in Fire Mastery means I can go for Charge Revival when the level cap goes up. The last two points I don't know what to do with. The JP wiki was outdated and suggested much higher return on PP up when I took Freeze Boost, but it might be why I get such consistent freezes off Rabartas. I don't know.

Ignition basically executes any normal enemy though... so it's nice for cutting through them. Ice techs are also really good with cards, and Gi/Rabarta have solid damage output against anything you land the full tech on.

I wonder if Ice Mastery affects Deband?

TecherRamen
Jun 28, 2012, 04:36 PM
You get 200 points at cap? That's bit more than what I get passive from fury stance, and at a severely diminished time frame. Now that's a shame.

Well, that's about the only neat thing ice gets. I guess I'm stuck freezing and shattering everything then. Looks like I'll be looking more like this (http://ryuhiroshi.ry.funpic.de/pso2/force.html?00FO!IE4OjJIbN6).

Yeah photon flare is kind of its own entity, not realy an ice thing, although in theory it combos well with freeze ignition.

Having said that, I have tried comboing it with freeze ignition and I must say that the results are awkward. Because freeze ignition demands you get realy close to an enemy to shatter it you run the risk of being attacked and interrupted or not having enough time to get close enough. Furthermore if youre in a group and freeze something a team member will likely unfreeze it. Thus further decreasing your likelihood of comboage.

Randomness
Jun 28, 2012, 04:42 PM
Yeah photon flare is kind of its own entity, not realy an ice thing, although in theory it combos well with freeze ignition.

Having said that, I have tried comboing it with freeze ignition and I must say that the results are awkward. Because freeze ignition demands you get realy close to an enemy to shatter it you run the risk of being attacked and interrupted or not having enough time to get close enough. Furthermore if youre in a group and freeze something a team member will likely unfreeze it. Thus further decreasing your likelihood of comboage.

If Photon Flare had the duration of Fury Stance, it'd be absolutely worth taking, even with the 30% reduction to max HP at 10. Sadly, it does not.

I wish we had more info on how some of these things work.

Gama
Jun 28, 2012, 05:16 PM
i'm going balanced. why not right?

moorebounce
Jun 28, 2012, 05:28 PM
Here's what I plan to do for my first 30 Skill Points

4 T-ATK Up 1
5 Flame Mastery 1
5 Flame Tech S Charge
1 Charge PP Revival
5 Ice Mastery 1
5 Bolt Mastery 1
5 Bolt Tech PP Save

Once I hit 30 on my Hunter I'll start my force on my second account.

Sp-24
Jun 28, 2012, 05:32 PM
The first thing I'm going to buy with Arks Cash is skill reset. My current setup looks like THIS (http://ryuhiroshi.ry.funpic.de/pso2/force.html?00FO!IE4OIbinfbnJi), and I think we can all see what is wrong with that build.

Zorafim
Jun 28, 2012, 05:39 PM
So then, I'm going to assume normal tech isn't as good as I was hoping for? That's a shame. It would have been neat if the different elements had different playstyles. Like WoW mages.

Fire would focus on big spells, thunder on small ones, and ice on crippling enemies. It might work out that way if things are balanced better, but so far only fire seems to be really great.

Sp-24
Jun 28, 2012, 05:48 PM
No, it is not good at all. Lv.10 Normal Tech Advance adds 10% to normal techs and that's it. Don't waste your SP on that piece of shit under any circumstances. Bolt Tech PP Save that you may have been leveling up for it will serve you good, though, so don't regret putting points there.

moorebounce
Jun 28, 2012, 05:49 PM
So then, I'm going to assume normal tech isn't as good as I was hoping for? That's a shame. It would have been neat if the different elements had different playstyles. Like WoW mages.

Fire would focus on big spells, thunder on small ones, and ice on crippling enemies. It might work out that way if things are balanced better, but so far only fire seems to be really great.

I like it better the way it is so people aren't using fire all the time. We already have rangers running around just using launchers and we damn near can't see anything as it is.

TecherRamen
Jun 28, 2012, 06:19 PM
I like it better the way it is so people aren't using fire all the time. We already have rangers running around just using launchers and we damn near can't see anything as it is.

Agreed. Rafoie is once again the enemy of all gameply as we know it. Otherwise its a great spell =D.

Laelless
Jun 28, 2012, 06:57 PM
Anyone know how to reset the skill tree points? I messed up bad. Dx

Sp-24
Jun 28, 2012, 07:01 PM
Arks Cash after the full game is out. It is currently the only way other than to delete your character.

Laelless
Jun 28, 2012, 07:28 PM
Aweh, blast. Thanks, though. :3

And I can give ya what I added to what when they let us play again tonight. All of them were in lightning techs and perks.

Alena Zouryx
Jun 28, 2012, 10:51 PM
Aweh, blast. Thanks, though. :3

And I can give ya what I added to what when they let us play again tonight. All of them were in lightning techs and perks.

I'm sure that the awesome Forces here can help you fix up your tree with what you've already invested in, even if it's just temporary.

Sure stinks that AC is required for talent trees... make one mistake? PAY UP, BRUH! x_x

Laelless
Jun 29, 2012, 12:24 PM
http://ryuhiroshi.ry.funpic.de/pso2/force.html?00FO!Iq4OIb65fCf

This be the damage...

EDIT: Mind you, I don't even know if this is bad. Just recently heard on another thread on another site saying something about bolt Forces sucking. >___>

Zorian
Jun 29, 2012, 12:41 PM
http://ryuhiroshi.ry.funpic.de/pso2/force.html?00FO!Iq4OIb65fCf

This be the damage...

I would suggest doing one of these

http://ryuhiroshi.ry.funpic.de/pso2/force.html?00FO!IE4OIbinfmncCf

Going for bolt tech PP save is a good idea especially since you're already got some points into shock boost. The last point that's in ice mastery could be moved to shock boost or PP up if you wanted. After this at 40 you could max out shock boost/pp up or slowly start going for Charge PP revival.

Bolt Damage 120% -10 PP Cost and an extra 3% chance to shock.
Ice/Fire Damage 105%
+2 PP

The other option being:

http://ryuhiroshi.ry.funpic.de/pso2/force.html?00FO!IE4OI2dsj5IbCf
With this you get:

109% Fire Damage 78% Fire Charge Speed
Charge PP Revival
Bolt Damage 109% -6 PP Cost and an extra 3% chance to shock.

If you go with this you have options when 40 comes out for your next 10 points. You could max out Bolt PP Save/Bolt Mastery or level up Charge Tech Advance or even level up Fire Master more. Lots of choices.

Of course the choice is yours but really the only bad points you have are 2 into the PP Up. Shock Boost isn't bad if you plan on going lightning which it seems you do. Option 1 focuses on that. Option 2 gives you lightning and fire.

Laelless
Jun 29, 2012, 12:45 PM
I would suggest doing one of these

http://ryuhiroshi.ry.funpic.de/pso2/force.html?00FO!IE4OIbinfmncCf

Going for bolt tech PP save is a good idea especially since you're already got some points into shock boost. The last point that's in ice mastery could be moved to shock boost or PP up if you wanted. After this at 40 you could max out shock boost/pp up or slowly start going for Charge PP revival.

Bolt Damage 120% -10 PP Cost and an extra 3% chance to shock.
Ice/Fire Damage 105%
+2 PP

The other option being:

http://ryuhiroshi.ry.funpic.de/pso2/force.html?00FO!IE4OI2dsj5IbCf
With this you get:

109% Fire Damage 78% Fire Charge Speed
Charge PP Revival
Bolt Damage 109% -6 PP Cost and an extra 3% chance to shock.

If you go with this you have options when 40 comes out for your next 10 points. You could max out Bolt PP Save/Bolt Mastery or level up Charge Tech Advance or even level up Fire Master more. Lots of choices.

Of course the choice is yours but really the only bad points you have are 2 into the PP Up. Shock Boost isn't bad if you plan on going lightning which it seems you do. Option 1 focuses on that. Option 2 gives you lightning and fire.

Ohhh, thank you. :D Its good to know I didn't mess up nearly as bad as I thought I did. The former seems like the best choice for me. Thanks very much!

Disastorm
Jun 29, 2012, 09:11 PM
Hey guys is T-Atk 1 skill worth getting or its better to save for later skills?

holmwood
Jun 30, 2012, 12:13 AM
Okay, after some calculations (Factoring in the amount of time it takes to hit an enemy to regenerate MP, the amount of time it takes to cast skills, the pp spent per cast with pp regen running in the background, comparisons made in tech power between typical DPS skills, etc...), I've come to the conclusion that sazonde with pp save isn't that great... compared to rafoie that is.

So if I had the choice between PP save and charge tech advance, I would take the latter. :D

sunfizz98
Jun 30, 2012, 01:27 AM
I want to make a high damage force and it looks like fire might be the best route to go. However, I'm not sure what skills I should invest into. This is what I have currently invested into my character.

FO Lv 30/30 (00FO!IEkb0j)
 1: Mirage Escape
 1: Just Reversal
 3: T-ATK Up 1

Also few questions:
Is there a difference between Tech Charge Advance 1 and Tech Charge Advance 2?
And what about T-Atk Up 1 and T-Atk Up 2?

holmwood
Jun 30, 2012, 03:05 AM
They are the same. You can even put up number 2 before umber one. However, T-Atk up's damage increase becomes rather pointless later on.... I do not recommend it. There are better atk increasing passives to dump points into.

Disastorm
Jun 30, 2012, 03:48 AM
Are the masteries worth getting or are they pretty much like T Atk?


First priority with low SP total's should be PP Charge Revival, full stop. Everything else after that is completely up to you. My own Skill Tree for the end of OBT looks like this

http://ryuhiroshi.ry.funpic.de/pso2/force.html?00FO!IE4OI2dvbnbnIdj

Full release plan is this

http://ryuhiroshi.ry.funpic.de/pso2/force.html?00FO!IEkbI2dxbnbnIkj

It's a different type of set up from what most people are aiming for, but there is a reason for it.

Of course, since I'll probably buy three skill trees anyway, I don't have to think too far ahead. Just far ahead enough so that I can get by come the first week.

Oh your plan looks pretty much just like mine except i was gonna get Pp Up and Freeze boost instead of Photon Flare. Is photon Flare really that good?

btw what do you mean buy three skill trees, does that give you more skill points??

Also is Just Reversal worth it, tbh it doesn't sound very good. UInfortuantely i put in 5 pts to T Atk so im trying to save points now.

*edit wow according to the jp wiki, pp up only gives you +1pp for each level, wtf ?

MasterSpark
Jun 30, 2012, 11:04 AM
By three skill trees I mean that you can purchase more than one via AC. Though if I'm satisfied enough with my level 40 Set up I won't need to do this aside from wanting to test some things out.



This might be common knowledge already, but when you have more than one tree for a class, will you be able to simply swap between your two skill trees at will?

Sp-24
Jun 30, 2012, 11:18 AM
This might be common knowledge already, but when you have more than one tree for a class, will you be able to simply swap between your two skill trees at will?
You will most likely have to do it at the Skill Counter, just like when switching classes.

Randomness
Jun 30, 2012, 11:36 AM
Are the masteries worth getting or are they pretty much like T Atk?



Oh your plan looks pretty much just like mine except i was gonna get Pp Up and Freeze boost instead of Photon Flare. Is photon Flare really that good?

btw what do you mean buy three skill trees, does that give you more skill points??

Also is Just Reversal worth it, tbh it doesn't sound very good. UInfortuantely i put in 5 pts to T Atk so im trying to save points now.

*edit wow according to the jp wiki, pp up only gives you +1pp for each level, wtf ?

I'm not sure how PP up works. Theres some extra red text after it, and the comments at the bottom mention some +55 or something. We need someone who can do better than Google to check I suppose. (If it WERE cumulative, 55 is the sum of 1-10)

Disastorm
Jun 30, 2012, 05:45 PM
interesting if the pp one is comulative, is the t atk one also cumulative?

Jrgsubzero
Jul 2, 2012, 03:10 AM
Frost ignition seems kinda bad. It seems to only work on 1 target and you need to be close for it to work.

TecherRamen
Jul 2, 2012, 09:10 AM
it will pop any frozen enemies near you. you just have to be stupid close for it to work.

Zorian
Jul 2, 2012, 12:17 PM
Well with level 40 come up around the corner and AC resets everyone is getting an extra 10 points to play with. After hitting 30 and looking at some of the gear I've noticed that some of the gear you won't be able to wear with your base stats this includes weapons and armor.

Taking that in consideration I am starting to see the use of T-Atk Up and T-Def up. Since these give you base stat increases they will allow you to equip a broader range of weapons/armor.

Well of course you're thinking that's what your mag is for correct? This is right but only to a extent. If you bust all Tech Damage on your Mag you wont be able to equip the armor still later on. So I think I may go a 50/50 split on the mag and raise T-Attack up making sure I can then use a good range of armor and have enough Tech Power to equip most rods/staffs.

I'm not 100% sure yet but I'm starting to see why T-Atk and T-Def might be a good thing to get.

Jepp027
Jul 2, 2012, 04:46 PM
Yeah its pretty crazy, I have a +9 4 star staff and I'm doing 100+ on most enmies with strong attacks.

Major difference from the original pso.

There is quite a lot better out there. I have seen 175 with certain ones.

Gardios
Jul 2, 2012, 04:52 PM
I just hope the next update gives Forces plenty of new EQ, they got the short end of the stick compared to Hunters and Rangers so far...


I'm not sure how PP up works. Theres some extra red text after it, and the comments at the bottom mention some +55 or something. We need someone who can do better than Google to check I suppose. (If it WERE cumulative, 55 is the sum of 1-10)
+1 PP per skill level, so Lv 10 PP Up only gives 10 PP.

Sp-24
Jul 2, 2012, 05:31 PM
What do people think of Tech JA Advance? It's only +10%, just like the useless Normal Tech Advance, but it further boosts the already powerful JA techs, so I'm not sure what to think of it.

TecherRamen
Jul 2, 2012, 09:28 PM
Hey All. Are any of you noticing either of these two things?
1) Sometimes I do damage and it pops up big and blue, what is this?
2) While attacking some enemies I will do normal amounts of damage then will deal double damage(apx). Is this a critical? Or something else?

IndigoNovember
Jul 2, 2012, 11:49 PM
What do people think of Tech JA Advance? It's only +10%, just like the useless Normal Tech Advance, but it further boosts the already powerful JA techs, so I'm not sure what to think of it.

I think it is a good investment if you are already on that side of the tree. According to the Japanese wiki its output is the same as Tech Charge Advance 1 or 2 though, so I am not sure I could recommend going for both if you already went and got Charge PP Revival.

Dinosaur
Jul 3, 2012, 12:10 AM
Hey All. Are any of you noticing either of these two things?
1) Sometimes I do damage and it pops up big and blue, what is this?
2) While attacking some enemies I will do normal amounts of damage then will deal double damage(apx). Is this a critical? Or something else?

To both 1 & 2: you're hitting weak points

Spellbinder
Jul 3, 2012, 12:15 AM
Guess I'll throw in my 2 cents on this. I'm sure down the road I'll probably want to do a skill reset, but for now this is my plan up to 40.

http://ryuhiroshi.ry.funpic.de/pso2/force.html?00FO!IEGOI22Sbibl

I originally wanted to dive into the Ice and Lightning trees for PP, but I don't think 20 points is worth 20 PP. Overall I'm just going for something fairly balanced, and the Tech Charge is also beneficial for Grants and Gi-grants which I just can't get enough of.

Dinosaur
Jul 3, 2012, 12:18 AM
Guess I'll throw in my 2 cents on this. I'm sure down the road I'll probably want to do a skill reset, but for now this is my plan up to 40.

http://ryuhiroshi.ry.funpic.de/pso2/force.html?00FO!IEGOI22Sbibl

I originally wanted to dive into the Ice and Lightning trees for PP, but I don't think 20 points is worth 20 PP. Overall I'm just going for something fairly balanced, and the Tech Charge is also beneficial for Grants and Gi-grants which I just can't get enough of.

Don't bother with random points into ice/lightning mastery. Put them into Tech Charge Advance 2 and you'll have that same 8% bonus for all of your spells.

Spellbinder
Jul 3, 2012, 12:37 AM
Don't bother with random points into ice/lightning mastery. Put them into Tech Charge Advance 2 and you'll have that same 8% bonus for all of your spells.

Good point, didn't think about that.

Gardios
Jul 3, 2012, 12:40 AM
If you use other elements frequently enough, you might want to dump a single point in Ice/Bolt Mastery 1 - Lv 1 grants +5% damage already if I'm not mistaken.

Sp-24
Jul 3, 2012, 12:54 AM
It does. Which makes me wondering: if I have to choose between putting one point into Ice Mastery and picking Just Reversal, which one would be a better choice overall?

Zorian
Jul 3, 2012, 07:44 AM
Just Reversal is nice but I dont think its really needed. Most of the time when you get knocked down its better since your pretty much invincible for a few moments. Where as I would of died with Just Reversal.

Sp-24
Jul 3, 2012, 10:55 AM
True, but the problem is that, IMO, Ice Mastery isn't such a great investment, either. Aside from using Gibarta against that monster with 2 horns and a Talis+Gibarta+TPS combo against Catadran and Vol Dragon (which is a very fun, but probably not the best strategy to come up with), I haven't found much use for ice. And since it's just one point, you can bet I'm not going for Freeze Boost or Photon Flare. Might as well just put that point in T-ATK Up if I find myself too short on T-ATK to equip some of the Force stuff, I guess.

TecherRamen
Jul 3, 2012, 12:50 PM
Just Reversal is nice but I dont think its really needed. Most of the time when you get knocked down its better since your pretty much invincible for a few moments. Where as I would of died with Just Reversal.

True.It seems good in theory.I have it and have NEVER used it. Im lvl 18. Its probably a skip. Especially since it sounds like 1 hit is game over at later levels

TecherRamen
Jul 3, 2012, 01:06 PM
True, but the problem is that, IMO, Ice Mastery isn't such a great investment, either. Aside from using Gibarta against that monster with 2 horns and a Talis+Gibarta+TPS combo against Catadran and Vol Dragon (which is a very fun, but probably not the best strategy to come up with), I haven't found much use for ice. And since it's just one point, you can bet I'm not going for Freeze Boost or Photon Flare. Might as well just put that point in T-ATK Up if I find myself too short on T-ATK to equip some of the Force stuff, I guess.

Barta, plain ol' Barta, is the $#!%. It does solid damage and has the potential to hit a LOT of enemies.

In my opinion most of these skills are not all that great unless you put a lot into them. +5% damage isnt that much. if you do 200dmg then thats +10dmg.. its so minuscule as to seem trivial.

Zorian
Jul 3, 2012, 02:05 PM
True, but the problem is that, IMO, Ice Mastery isn't such a great investment, either. Aside from using Gibarta against that monster with 2 horns and a Talis+Gibarta+TPS combo against Catadran and Vol Dragon (which is a very fun, but probably not the best strategy to come up with), I haven't found much use for ice. And since it's just one point, you can bet I'm not going for Freeze Boost or Photon Flare. Might as well just put that point in T-ATK Up if I find myself too short on T-ATK to equip some of the Force stuff, I guess.

Earlier on I would say that T-Atk up is useless but I ran into the same thing you did with requirements. Unless you make a pure T-Atk mag I can see this being an issue. Granted these are 9 star weapons already and we dont know what the requirements of gear will be like later on but it could be the same deal. T-Atk might be useful to get that edge in stats if you're going to make a hybrid mag with T-Atk and T-Def to get the best of both worlds (Weapon/Armor)

Sp-24
Jul 3, 2012, 02:19 PM
Earlier on I would say that T-Atk up is useless but I ran into the same thing you did with requirements. Unless you make a pure T-Atk mag I can see this being an issue. Granted these are 9 star weapons already and we dont know what the requirements of gear will be like later on but it could be the same deal. T-Atk might be useful to get that edge in stats if you're going to make a hybrid mag with T-Atk and T-Def to get the best of both worlds (Weapon/Armor)

I think I'll be going for a hybrid, since I think that higher level disks for Gunblade PAs are going to be introduced, and I really want that 2% increase in power. Plus, it probably wouldn't hurt being able to equip higher grade units, too, since I failed to see the difference between Normal and Hard Vol Dragons with a dedicated T-ATK Mag - both would take off 50% of my HP like nobody's business. Still need to know what PBs what Mags are going to have, though, since that PP-recovering PB is invaluable if you have Charge PP Revival.

Ark22
Jul 3, 2012, 06:26 PM
Tech Revival, Photon Flare and any element put it in fire or ice. Fire since most creatures are weak to it or ice for the freezing effect. IMO

Darki
Jul 3, 2012, 06:47 PM
So, what would it be a somewhat balanced force skilltree? I wouldn't really want to focus on only one element, and I crapped already my first skilltree, I believe.

It would be this one -> http://ryuhiroshi.ry.funpic.de/pso2/force.html?00FO!IEqBIkeS0

Considering that we're getting 10 extra skillpoints for now plus my two remaining points till 30, and the fact that we'll be able to purchase extra skilltrees, I was thinking that I might fix it by turning this into my "fire skill tree" (something like this (http://ryuhiroshi.ry.funpic.de/pso2/force.html?00FO!IEqBIX2X0)) and get another two skilltrees someday to go for each of the other elements. But I'm not sure about this, and I'd also prefer to have a "main" skilltree that would cover a bit of everything to be made as soon as possible.

I got some AC and I was planning on getting either a new skilltree or a new mag, and the only reason I didn't remake my character when I added too many points into Flame Mastery was the fact that fire seems to be pretty much the most useful element for now. Forest monsters and darkers are all vulnerable to fire, and darkers appear in all maps (to the point that in the desert most of the times there are more darkers than robots, plus City is a darker-only area), so I didn't consider the mistake that serious.

How many skilltrees are aviable for each character? Because I suppose that if they're not too many I wouldn't do any good to waste one into an all-purpose skilltree and I should just stick with the single elemental ones.

Kayaka
Jul 3, 2012, 07:54 PM
I'm going for build which I don't believe I've seen around here.

http://ryuhiroshi.ry.funpic.de/pso2/force.html?00FO!IEGBh2dsjbncAf

I currently have a skill mag but read that a lot of people went force mag due to possible need of more force for equips. To counter this I'd go for the T.Atk + skills because I believe that each point equal 10 tech? Can't seem to find where I read that but I'll confirm it when I put my next point in or not. Going from the normal 3 point which a lot of people have to having 12 points at 40 would be like having a level 90 force mag (I believe 1 mag level = 1 skill point to which the level came from?) If I am wrong I would love any correction on any part so feel free to let me know if I'm messing up here ^^.

To burn PP I can use charged fire and when I'm running lower I can use charged bolts to slowly build PP back.

- Correction on the T.Atk skills as they equal 5 points not 10 read from the WIKI, my bad.
Would make the 90 mag only a 45 mag which is quite a bit of a reduction -

This build will probably require a reset when levels get much higher due to 20% being better than a maxed out possible +100 tech but I believe earlier levels it would be marginally better than percentages.

Sp-24
Jul 3, 2012, 08:54 PM
I'm going for build which I don't believe I've seen around here.

You may want to invest sparingly into the T-ATK Up skills at first, since it's unknown how high will the Rod/Talis/Tech requirements be - you could end up wasting a fair bit of SP on needless stat-ups. Skill distribution should also depend on your character's race and gender, since even at level 30, the difference between FOcast's and FOney's T-ATK is around 30 points, if not even more. You can bet that FOcast will need T-ATK Up the most, though.


So, what would it be a somewhat balanced force skilltree?

Not sure what to suggest for a balanced build, but I guess that it should involve Tech Charge Advance and/or Photon Flare skills. Zonde tree, while very useful, will make you rely on Gizonde even more than you would otherwise (but that's because it's great).

No idea what's the number of skill trees. A "1/10" hint like in the Mag menu would have been nice.

TecherRamen
Jul 3, 2012, 11:13 PM
So, what would it be a somewhat balanced force skilltree? I wouldn't really want to focus on only one element, and I crapped already my first skilltree, I believe.
.

Fire Tree for the balanced build. It has the most universal skills: charge pp revival, the 2 tech charge advances and the second tech attack up. Sure you need to invest in fire to get to these skills, but, you're not putting as much into fire as you think, +9% damage (meh imo) and 78% charge time( pretty cool). All this means is that fire will be more of your "go-to" or "default" element over any of the others.

http://ryuhiroshi.ry.funpic.de/pso2/force.html?00FO!IEDoI22SIk8

this way anything you charge (ANYTHING and you will almost always be charging) will do an extra 20% damage. 20% is alot

Randomness
Jul 3, 2012, 11:26 PM
Fire Tree for the balanced build. It has the most universal skills: charge pp revival, the 2 tech charge advances and the second tech attack up. Sure you need to invest in fire to get to these skills, but, you're not putting as much into fire as you think, +9% damage (meh imo) and 78% charge time( pretty cool). All this means is that fire will be more of your "go-to" or "default" element over any of the others.

http://ryuhiroshi.ry.funpic.de/pso2/force.html?00FO!IEDoI22SIk8

this way anything you charge (ANYTHING and you will almost always be charging) will do an extra 20% damage. 20% is alot

Pretty much... it's sad how ridiculously better that branch is.

The only worthwhile skill overall in ice is Freeze Ignition. If the freeze rate boost was significant... it would let you do stupid things to packs of enemies. It's not, and freeze breaks too easy in groups to get the 1500+ damage nuke off.

Lightning has PP save... which is great, but again, the only thing of particular interest.

I'm hoping SEGA buffs up the other branches (Lets face it, balance isn't a huge issue, we're supposed to be able to steamroll common trash), and then resets points (since rearranging the tree and not doing so would be... odd, potentially glitchy)

TecherRamen
Jul 3, 2012, 11:33 PM
Pretty much... it's sad how ridiculously better that branch is.

The only worthwhile skill overall in ice is Freeze Ignition. If the freeze rate boost was significant... it would let you do stupid things to packs of enemies. It's not, and freeze breaks too easy in groups to get the 1500+ damage nuke off.

Lightning has PP save... which is great, but again, the only thing of particular interest.

I'm hoping SEGA buffs up the other branches (Lets face it, balance isn't a huge issue, we're supposed to be able to steamroll common trash), and then resets points (since rearranging the tree and not doing so would be... odd, potentially glitchy)

Agreed. Freeze ignition needs at least better initiation range or a shorter cool down. And the PP save is cool but also only for lightning techs..

its too bad the PP up skills only give +10 at lvl 10

Darki
Jul 4, 2012, 12:02 AM
The problem is that I have invested points into Flame Mastery and Just Reversal, So that one would make me need a new skilltree just for that. :/

BuyTheChicken
Jul 4, 2012, 03:36 PM
Does anyone know what to do for the 5 extra skill points for Maloo's client order?

TecherRamen
Jul 4, 2012, 05:20 PM
Does anyone know what to do for the 5 extra skill points for Maloo's client order?

There's always a skill to pump. Wht skill tree did you go down? If youre concentrating in a single element then you could distribute them to the mastery. Five points is like frosting it will sweeten what ever you're after

Inaruna
Jul 4, 2012, 05:31 PM
Does anyone know what to do for the 5 extra skill points for Maloo's client order?
Kill:
7 Rappy
5 Ragne

sugarFO
Jul 4, 2012, 08:23 PM
Does anyone know what to do for the 5 extra skill points for Maloo's client order?


I would like to know this too. 7 something and 5 something.

Darki
Jul 4, 2012, 08:37 PM
you gotta kill 7 rappies (the chibi ones that appear everywhere, not the realistic ones that you can find in Naberius) and five Dark Ragnes.

EDIT: So how's this (http://ryuhiroshi.ry.funpic.de/pso2/force.html?01FO!IOI2qBIk2XI38) for a "Fire skilltree"? Now that we get whooping 15 more points thanks to the qo extra levels and Maloo's quest, I feel like the mistakes I did aren't that serious and it can actually be corrected into an element-specific build.

I already invested points in this (http://ryuhiroshi.ry.funpic.de/pso2/force.html?01FO!IOI2qBIk2s0) setup at level 30, so any addition would have to be over that.

sugarFO
Jul 4, 2012, 08:45 PM
you gotta kill 7 rappies (the chibi ones that appear everywhere, not the realistic ones that you can find in Naberius) and five Dark Ragnes.

I killed those chibi ones and it's not counting. :(

Darki
Jul 4, 2012, 08:55 PM
Uh? Well then try with the Nab Rappies, but I'd swear the name in the quest is actually "Rappy", without the "Nab".

EDIT: Ok, I'm on the same boat with you, I've killed the required monsters (they're indeed "chibi" rappies and Dark Ragne) but they don't add to the count. I can't translate the text so I'm not sure what the extra requirement could be, maybe bringing Maloo with you, or killing them with a specific weapon.

soulpimpwizzurd
Jul 5, 2012, 08:48 PM
Uh? Well then try with the Nab Rappies, but I'd swear the name in the quest is actually "Rappy", without the "Nab".

EDIT: Ok, I'm on the same boat with you, I've killed the required monsters (they're indeed "chibi" rappies and Dark Ragne) but they don't add to the count. I can't translate the text so I'm not sure what the extra requirement could be, maybe bringing Maloo with you, or killing them with a specific weapon.

you have to be killing with a specific weapon. i'm not a force so i don't know which, but if it didn't work with rod, try talis, and vice versa. ranger only gets counted if you have launcher equipped, and hunter, partisan.

Darki
Jul 6, 2012, 05:11 AM
It has to be Talis.

Mizunos
Jul 6, 2012, 05:26 AM
I killed those chibi ones and it's not counting. :(
You have to take them down with a Talis weapon, else it won't count.

Zorian
Jul 6, 2012, 10:20 AM
You have to take them down with a Talis weapon, else it won't count.

Do you just have to have it equipped? You can still use magic correct?

chaosbelow
Jul 7, 2012, 08:14 PM
Does tech charge advance 1 and 2 stack? Does T. Attack 1 and 2 stack as well?

elken1996
Jul 7, 2012, 10:25 PM
I personally will follow my own build > http://ryuhiroshi.ry.funpic.de/pso2/force.html?01FO!IOI24OI22SIk8 <

Since I am only using Light Attacking Skill like Grants and Gigrants(used by Maloo) that can be obtain by talking with Maloo each 5 S rank mission u do with her.Keep doing Lv1 forest mission to gain these 2 skill faster,of course u won't get it in the first talk,so keep repeat.

-Charge PP revival for the 6 to 7 PP regeneration each time we charge skill
-Tech Charge Advanced I maxed for extra 10% damages
-Tech Charge Advanced II maxed for extra 10% damages
-11SP left over.I saved them for future updates since I am not sure what update we are going to get.Or I might even put them on PP UP or T-Attack UP since i don't know how much PP or T-attack they raise for each lv.

If u wan to know why I prefer this build:
-Light-skill have very high hit rates compare to the 3 main elements
-Light-skill are low lv but dealing higher damage compare to the 3 main elements
-Light-skill damages are high enough to deal the same damage as fire,although the monster weakness is fire.Same for other main element
-In the future we might be able to raise these skill lv that increase more damages
-This build is way safer compare to other that focusing on one element.Since adding damages to all Element including Dark and Wind skill are better than focusing one element.
-And currently the most mystery skill is Megid(Dark skill) that may have higher damage than other element including light

Presence of Megid taken by psokid:
http://tinypic.com/view.php?pic=2j5xwgj&s=6
http://tinypic.com/view.php?pic=24g1ulu&s=6
http://tinypic.com/view.php?pic=2cgy3j9&s=6

Darki
Jul 7, 2012, 11:40 PM
I have a little dilemma with my skilltree. I'ts a mainly fire oriented one, but I'm not sure where to put some points.

I ended adding 2 extra points into T-ATK up, raising it to 5, and because of that I gotta decide between leaving Tech Charge Advance 2 OR Flame tech S charge at level 8 (and the other at 10). The skilltree is more or less this (http://ryuhiroshi.ry.funpic.de/pso2/force.html?01FO!IOI2qBIk2VI38) and I don't know where to put those two remaining points. Of course I could go with the "salomonic" solution and leave both at 9, but I'd prefer to max one out.

As it's a fire-oriented skilltree, I would put Flame Tech S charge, but maybe it would be wiser just to put the points into more charged damage instead of emptying my PP faster. But I spent those 2 points into T-Attack up, so there's already a slight damage increase... And I guess I wouldn't be using all of the fire skilltree well without that little upgrade (the difference in charge time sure is noticeable, I actually gotta kill the Dark Ragne in Hard using fire instead of light because if not I never have time).

So what do you recommend?

Randomness
Jul 8, 2012, 12:36 AM
Taking S Charge from 8 to 10 makes the charge time go from 65% to 50%.

Two points of Charge Advance are 2% more damage on all charged techs.

Darki
Jul 8, 2012, 12:44 AM
Taking S Charge from 8 to 10 makes the charge time go from 65% to 50%.

Two points of Charge Advance are 2% more damage on all charged techs.

I guess then I'll go for S Charge then.

Zipzo
Jul 8, 2012, 02:08 AM
So what reason is there to believe that any other spec aside from full fire is useful?

http://ryuhiroshi.ry.funpic.de/pso2/force.html?01FO!IOI2GBH2eSIg8

Is it worth going Ice or Lightning for any other reason aside from aesthetic preference of spells? Sure, if you like shooting lightning, or dispensing ice, you might pick the other trees but from a purely optimal and elitist POV...isn't fire where it's at?

fishkzamilathuya
Jul 8, 2012, 04:12 AM
Just recently bought a secondary character slot and made a little mage, I'm reading that fire is quite a bit better than ice or lightning but even so I'd like to go with the lightning tree.

Don't suppose anyone would wanna make me a quick guide on what is recommended for people going down my route?

MasterSpark
Jul 8, 2012, 04:43 AM
Just recently bought a secondary character slot and made a little mage, I'm reading that fire is quite a bit better than ice or lightning but even so I'd like to go with the lightning tree.

Don't suppose anyone would wanna make me a quick guide on what is recommended for people going down my route?

I'd go with a tree like this for a balanced build.

http://ryuhiroshi.ry.funpic.de/pso2/force.html?01FO!IOI24OI22XInfbncAf

Your fire techs will be quick, your lightning cheap and you've got some damage boosters going. Further points can go into Tech Charge Advance 2 to further improve your damage output across the board.

elken1996
Jul 8, 2012, 04:46 AM
I'd go with a tree like this for a balanced build.

http://ryuhiroshi.ry.funpic.de/pso2/force.html?01FO!IOI24OI22XInfbncAf

Your fire techs will be quick, your lightning cheap and you've got some damage boosters going. Further points can go into Tech Charge Advance 2 to further improve your damage output across the board.

I quit this build and delete my 27lv FO right away after i found out there are many other secret skill that could be obtain from NPC after u clear the matter board to unlock more NPC which i hate alot ==

MasterSpark
Jul 8, 2012, 04:52 AM
I quit this build and delete my 27lv FO right away after i found out there are many other secret skill that could be obtain from NPC after u clear the matter board to unlock more NPC which i hate alot ==

You know you can't leave us hanging like that. Spill those beans, please. :)

elken1996
Jul 8, 2012, 05:06 AM
U know Google is your best friend :D

And all i know now is Grants and Gigrants came form Maloo by bringing her out to clear any S rank mission 5 time and talk to her.

While for Megid someone give a hint about clearing matter board(storyline) and you will get a partner card from a new FO npc.I assume after getting her as a partner do the same thing as Maloo.However no one confirmed this yet atm.

franstormer
Jul 8, 2012, 10:53 AM
http://ryuhiroshi.ry.funpic.de/pso2/force.html?01FO!IOI2kbI2dsIk8

mine is currently like this, im lvl40 with 20 unused SP, was wondering how should i go ><"

Ryock
Jul 8, 2012, 01:36 PM
http://ryuhiroshi.ry.funpic.de/pso2/force.html?01FO!IOI2kbI2dsIk8

mine is currently like this, im lvl40 with 20 unused SP, was wondering how should i go ><"

Well, you got all kinds of options open. You could go and max Bolt Tech PP Save for a considerable reduction on all your lightning spells. You could also get a single level in both the ice and bolt masteries for that extra 5% damage. Could also max out the other tech charge advance in the fire tree for more damage. Orrrrr, being in as good of a spot as you are, you could wait until the next level cap, and see if the skill tree expands since you've got a lot of SP to work with.

Coatl
Jul 8, 2012, 01:37 PM
I put 10 points into Tech charge Advance 1 and 2 and am currently just enjoying being a fire mage. Put 5 points into Flame tech S charge instead of 10 because you lose one tech in exchange for casting them down faster (which doesn't always bring you to a better dps output).

Put one point in Just reversal like an idiot. :c

Honestly, the only tech that can Rival (or even out-perform) the grant techs is that exploding fire tech. What is better than making anything explode at any given location you desire without obstruction at 50% of the time it takes to charge grant? The tech seems so overpowered that the only grant that doesn't work to less effect is that gigrant.

FenixStryk
Jul 8, 2012, 03:08 PM
This is my current build: http://ryuhiroshi.ry.funpic.de/pso2/force.html?01FO!IOI2kbI2dxIwfbncAf

The priority is as follows:
-PP Revival
-Bolt Tech PP Save
-Flame Tech S Charge
-anything

~PP Revival is 100% mandatory; if you are FO and you don't have it, you messed up. It alleviates PP strain and turns your Photon Burst into something useful. There is no excuse.

~Bolt Tech PP Save is crucial in AoE situations. Gizonde at 28 PP is hard to justify, but at 18 PP it will be your go-to option in PSE Bursts, VTOL Code: Protections and any situation where Gigrants is not immediately an option (spaced packs, panic situations, etc.). In general, you will use 18 PP Gizonde regardless of type weakness if three or more enemies are within chain range and not in Gigrants range.

~Flame Tech S Charge plays a key role against Darkers and synergizes well with your Photon Burst and PP-J Mag Device. The capacity to unload your PP bar quickly is paramount, as speeding up your full PP rotation is a DPS boost in all situations.

After you've maxed all three of these skills, you can pretty much do whatever you want. I would recommend Just Reversal and Lv.1 Ice Mastery if you haven't grabbed them already, and then choose between Charge Advance and JA Advance (all +1% damage per 1 SP). Photon Flare is buried too deep in Ice to be of considerable use, but really, none of this yields anything comparable to Revival/S Charge/PP Save. The world is already your oyster.

Good luck.

TecherRamen
Jul 8, 2012, 10:00 PM
So the next level cap increase (to 50) wont be for a while. http://pso2.jp/players/news/?id=165.. This shows that mid july has a certain list of updates. In the next packet(not mid july) of updates is the level cap increase. Curiously new techs will be added as well as 3 new classes. Soooo, maybe we could speculate on one of them being a light/ dark/ wind force. Just speculation and conjecture, no scientific basis for this...



Fire techs are fun and versatile but hard on the eyes and the video card, especially with multiple people spamming them. GiZonde is one of the best spells easily, zonde also. Barta and rabarta are also very good. Barta can easily out damage any other tech in the right situation. Rafoie is nice and consistent and you can cast blazingly fast (pun intended). But it can easily be out performed.

Put it to tech charge advance2. and also maybe tech attack ups, it will help with equipping any weapons that are out of your reach statwise.

maybe this?
http://ryuhiroshi.ry.funpic.de/pso2/force.html?01FO!IOI2kbI22SIkfbnbnf

Sp-24
Jul 8, 2012, 11:15 PM
I wonder what will the requirements on those new items be. Currently, 74 T-ATK points from a Carina Mag is exactly enough for me (a FOmarl) to equip every Force weapon in the game. I probably won't reach level 40 by mid-July, but still, wouldn't want to find out that there is a new Talis weapon with a 498 T-ATK requirement, and with nothing for me to do about it.

And TecherRamen, my skill tree is almost identical to yours. That Just Reversal point goes to Ice Mastery, though. But I don't like ice techs that much, so maybe I'll just clone your skill tree instead. :)

franstormer
Jul 9, 2012, 01:49 AM
i guess i'll be saving up that 20points till the next cap and see what's out

Eryhpas
Jul 9, 2012, 03:23 AM
I was wondering how good PP Up would be and if it's worth putting 5 points into.

Here's the build I was looking at:
http://ryuhiroshi.ry.funpic.de/pso2/force.html?01FO!IOI24OI22ShxI2Inj

I definitely want to keep both Charge Tech Up's since they benefit all skills.
I can either choose between 5 points in PP Up or 5 points in Bolt Tech PP Save and I'm more leaning towards the PP Up since I'm not a big fan of the Lightning Techs.

Suggestions/Comments?

Randomness
Jul 9, 2012, 10:02 AM
PP up is awful. 5 points will increase your max PP by 5. It's not worth it.

moeri
Jul 9, 2012, 10:07 AM
PP up is awful. 5 points will increase your max PP by 5. It's not worth it.

Quote to agree

pp up is awful, just not enough pp for what you invest

Eryhpas
Jul 9, 2012, 10:24 AM
I guess I'll have to go with Bolt Tech Save then, I don't see anything else useful unless I go T-ATK Up.
I heard that the static ATK increase becomes quite useless later on though.

TecherRamen
Jul 9, 2012, 12:36 PM
Let:
Damage as a function of tatck up = D(50),
Damage as a function of tatck at each level= D(T_level)
Damage as a function of total tatck = D(T_level+50)
Percentage of damage attributed to tatck up lvl 10 = 100%*[D(50)/D(T_level+50)]


If you increase level you can see that the amount of damage that T-atk up contributes goes down at higher levels.

Anyone have damage equations? maybe we can turn this into a real equation instead of a bunch of awkward functions...

Checkmate
Jul 9, 2012, 01:30 PM
Quick question. The Tech Charge Adv talents directly influence spells that you do singularly (meaning not in a combo or a series of JA moves)?

I have an innate habit of doing JA skills, be it melee or spells, and I don't think I'm making the best out of the points I invested into TCA 1. I notice a spike in damage early on but the damage scales back then gradually builds as I do more JA skills.

I have a bad feeling I'll have to respec' into Tech JA Adv to adjust for my play style.

TecherRamen
Jul 9, 2012, 01:37 PM
Right. when you charge a spell, any spell, it will do more damage.

Checkmate
Jul 9, 2012, 01:57 PM
So the damage doesn't have the potential to build as you do more like JA skills?

Well that's not essentially a bad thing if you're pumping out skills at random versus in a timed fashion. Putting 20 points into TCA could "potentially" shell out more damage sporadically than TJAA, especially if you're interrupted and forced to restart your combo.

EDIT: apparently I've been making the mistake of thinking timed combos/JA also constitutes as a Charged attack even if you don't release the spell right away.

TecherRamen
Jul 9, 2012, 02:24 PM
When you charge a spell it is either charged or uncharged, there is no middle ground; If you do not fully charge a spell then it counts as uncharged.

Checkmate
Jul 9, 2012, 03:03 PM
So if I were to combo - Melee >> JA Melee >> 1st JA Foie + Hold Button >> 2nd JA Foie + Hold Button >> 3rd JA Foie + Hold Button

The damage from all "JA Foie + Hold Button" has a factor of both TJAA and TCA skill points?

Sp-24
Jul 9, 2012, 03:18 PM
Charged techs benefit from JA. Tech Charge Advance boosts charged techs. Tech JA Advance boosts JA techs. So, Tech Charge Advance and Tech JA Advance are essentially identical when it comes to charged JA techs. However, Tech Charge Advance is a lot more useful in other situations.

TecherRamen
Jul 9, 2012, 03:42 PM
The damage from all "JA Foie + Hold Button" has a factor of both TJAA and TCA skill points?
yes. say both skills were at lvl 10, then, theoretically, your attack would do 120% of the damage it would have done if you had neither (its base damage).

I agree with SP- the charge is mroe versatile, sometimes you miss a JA and sometimes its awkward to start with one..

TecherRamen
Jul 9, 2012, 03:43 PM
So now I have a question... Does anyone else notice some techs charging faster than others? Or is it my imagination? I swear Zonde charges wicked quick, where as grants (among others) takes much longer to charge.

Sp-24
Jul 9, 2012, 04:06 PM
I'm not so sure about Zonde, but yeah, Grants and Gigrants do take their time.

Randomness
Jul 9, 2012, 04:19 PM
If I ever reset my tree, this'll be what I go for:

http://ryuhiroshi.ry.funpic.de/pso2/force.html?01FO!IOI24OI22Sbxfbnj

Just max the charge boosts and balance the elements at an extra 9% each. One more point for Just Reversal or something, or towards whatever comes out in the future.

Zorafim
Jul 9, 2012, 04:27 PM
Keep in mind that the level cap will be raised in the future, in case you want to pick up other skills. For instance, you could go for that JA boosting talent down the thunder tree.

Checkmate
Jul 9, 2012, 06:30 PM
thanks for the helpful info earlier. I wasn't too sure on what was affecting my spells. Sometimes I would hit a trash mob for a few hundred points then the next would be 1400+ and I couldn't explain why.. I didn't have any NPCs or players around so that wasn't a factor. I have a much better idea of what I need to specialize in.

TecherRamen
Jul 10, 2012, 01:23 PM
Does anyone know what Sa-Zonde is supposed to do?

Sp-24
Jul 10, 2012, 01:39 PM
Hit an enemy first with Sazonde, then - with another lightning tech. Aside from damage from that tech you just used, the enemy will start receiving continuous damage - 3 moderately strong hits with an uncharged Sazonde, or 5 weak hits with a charged one. Just like with Zonde, Sazonde's damaging stage has a tiny AoE. This may be the only tech in the game to benefit from Normal Tech Advance. That skill is still entirely useless, though.

TecherRamen
Jul 10, 2012, 03:02 PM
Thanks

Gama
Jul 10, 2012, 04:15 PM
sazonde is kinda like freeze ignition, take too much time to be worth it.

Sizustar
Jul 11, 2012, 05:42 AM
Thinking of using this for my FO
http://ryuhiroshi.ry.funpic.de/pso2/force.html?01FO!IOI2GOdS2SIk8

Mega Ultra Chicken
Jul 11, 2012, 10:19 AM
Seeing how Carina is a Techer Mag that requires S-ATK, has anyone tried out a melee Force yet? I might wanna do that with BROcast.

Zipzo
Jul 11, 2012, 02:53 PM
Seeing how Carina is a Techer Mag that requires S-ATK, has anyone tried out a melee Force yet? I might wanna do that with BROcast.

I don't think going melee FO in PSO2 is something that can be even near optimal like it was in PSO.

In PSO it was the sheer variety of weapons available to forces that made it possible, and special abilities like TP recovery on double sabers, or TP drain for extra damage that made it effective.

As far as I can tell the melee weapon variety available to FO's in PSO2 is cut drastically short, and the damage is nowhere near competitive. Also, ranged weapons have their own stat, therefore you'd be restricted to strictly melee weapons and given FO's have weak defense, doesn't seem constructive to survival. In PSO you could simply use Mechguns or a Holy Ray as a FOmarl to counteract the possibility of getting hit by tougher mobs, but you can't even equip any guns really on a FO in PSO2.

Of course none of this mattered past lvl150 or so...but I'm talking about when the content in PSO of 'of level' to you.

Randomness
Jul 11, 2012, 02:59 PM
I don't think going melee FO in PSO2 is something that can be even near optimal like it was in PSO.

In PSO it was the sheer variety of weapons available to forces that made it possible, and special abilities like TP recovery on double sabers, or TP drain for extra damage that made it effective.

As far as I can tell the melee weapon variety available to FO's in PSO2 is cut drastically short, and the damage is nowhere near competitive. Also, ranged weapons have their own stat, therefore you'd be restricted to strictly melee weapons and given FO's have weak defense, doesn't seem constructive to survival. In PSO you could simply use Mechguns or a Holy Ray as a FOmarl to counteract the possibility of getting hit by tougher mobs, but you can't even equip any guns really on a FO in PSO2.

Of course none of this mattered past lvl150 or so...but I'm talking about when the content in PSO of 'of level' to you.

There is actually at least one gunblade that gives T-atk. It's something like... 107 or so at +10. I use it mostly in gun mode for obvious reasons - if I'm in melee range, rods have solid physical attack and far better ranged attack. (Also, it's pretty fast at breaking things for Code: Rescue and Code: Destruction)

Of course, you could just use cards, but they're far trickier to use.

Zipzo
Jul 11, 2012, 04:03 PM
There is actually at least one gunblade that gives T-atk. It's something like... 107 or so at +10. I use it mostly in gun mode for obvious reasons - if I'm in melee range, rods have solid physical attack and far better ranged attack. (Also, it's pretty fast at breaking things for Code: Rescue and Code: Destruction)

Of course, you could just use cards, but they're far trickier to use.
Your damage when shooting a gun blade is affected by ranged attack correct?

Cards utilize ranged attack as well right?

It just doesn't seem like a good choice to make, raising ranged attack on a FO, may as well have just rolled a RA, because shooting your Foie is going to be infinitely more optimal.

Sp-24
Jul 11, 2012, 04:18 PM
Cards use T.Attack, not R.Attack.

Ray Duplex is the only Gunblade that gives you T.Attack (87 at +10, but good luck getting there), but its S. and R. Attack stats are easily surpassed by Vita Slasher, and probably other Gunblades as well, so it's not such a good weapon, even for a Force.

TecherRamen
Jul 11, 2012, 07:25 PM
With our current selection of weapons you may be left feeling a little inadequate trying to mix tech and melee in this way.

Shadownami92
Jul 11, 2012, 07:45 PM
Honestly Rod are pretty good melee weapons, that and then you have the Soul Eater. I've just been hitting stuff with a rod and I've been getting decent damage. And with Mirage Evade or whatever its called it's easy to avoid taking damage and covering distance between you and the monsters.

Also while I am doing decent melee damage with the rods. I'm sure someone more focused on a melee and tech build would do more damage than me. Since my mag is focused on Tech and Ability.

Randomness
Jul 11, 2012, 07:55 PM
Cards use T.Attack, not R.Attack.

Ray Duplex is the only Gunblade that gives you T.Attack (87 at +10, but good luck getting there), but its S. and R. Attack stats are easily surpassed by Vita Slasher, and probably other Gunblades as well, so it's not such a good weapon, even for a Force.

I could swear it (slim, blue blade, blade only turns on in sword mode, right?) has more than that on mine (Which is, in fact, +10). Also, I'm only at 24, so most of those better gunblades don't drop for me yet.

Edit: Duh. My gunblade has a T-ATK boost, no wonder our numbers are off.

I figured that if one did, there should be more, with higher stats. Guess not. And yes, I know cards make better ranged weapons for a force overall, but then you have to reset it to your hand to cast on self - gunblades don't have that issue, which is why I like this particular one (It's roughly half my current card's t-atk, but I've yet to find any rares other than gunblades... it's the first 4* card, at +10... because it's so easy on uncommon stuff)

You can't quite go the HUnewearl route of melee primary with tech support... yet. You can go melee the crap out of things while playing force if you want (obviously, suboptimal, compared to nuking... but gunblade PAs do solid damage... even as FOnewearl)

TecherRamen
Jul 11, 2012, 08:05 PM
we will get new weapons and new classes probably in about 2 months. It is in the jp sega roadmap for certain. I am just guessing at the time table. So maybe at that time you would get a new class or a new weapon type that will be more tuned to the play style youre interested in.

moeri
Jul 11, 2012, 08:21 PM
Seeing how Carina is a Techer Mag that requires S-ATK, has anyone tried out a melee Force yet? I might wanna do that with BROcast.

just to make sure you are aware...

you can use S-DEF instead

Coatl
Jul 12, 2012, 11:20 PM
My skill tree right now looks like this: http://ryuhiroshi.ry.funpic.de/pso2/force.html?01FO!IOI2kbIF2SIk8.

I'm not exactly sure where to go from here.
I REALLY don't think I should go for a base TATK boost.

Any tips?

Also, will they extend the skill tree?
If so I might just save the spare points I have.

Dinosaur
Jul 12, 2012, 11:22 PM
My skill tree right now looks like this: http://ryuhiroshi.ry.funpic.de/pso2/force.html?01FO!IOI2kbIF2SIk8.

I'm not exactly sure where to go from here.
I REALLY don't think I should go for a base TATK boost.

Any tips?

Max that T-atk Up.

DARKWINGDARA
Jul 12, 2012, 11:28 PM
Just gonna ask here;
currently a level 27 FOcaseal, and I was wondering if I will turn up severely gimped come later updates? As it is right now I'm only 40 T-ATK behind a Newearl, but I feel that's going to increase. I could always hope for a Wartecher subjob though~

Sp-24
Jul 13, 2012, 12:37 AM
Not sure about the "severely" part, but yes, I think you will be gimped. T.Attack is the most spread out stat of them all, so you'll need to invest much more into it to keep up with other Forces. Stat gap seems to increase at around 1.2 point per level if we compare FOcast/caseal and FOnewearl, so it doesn't look like things are going to get better unless Sega introduces race-specific weapons for Casts or rearranges their stats.

DARKWINGDARA
Jul 13, 2012, 01:57 AM
Not sure about the "severely" part, but yes, I think you will be gimped. T.Attack is the most spread out stat of them all, so you'll need to invest much more into it to keep up with other Forces. Stat gap seems to increase at around 1.2 point per level if we compare FOcast/caseal and FOnewearl, so it doesn't look like things are going to get better unless Sega introduces race-specific weapons for Casts or rearranges their stats.

Then again hopefully by the time the detriment in stats reach such a level, SEGA will have released Race change tickets. /// jokes aside, I do love my hideous skull-faced caseal.
But yeah, I already have went to extreme levels to keep my T-ATK top notch (+8 8* talis, +120 t-atk from units and another 50 t-atk from my mag). I just have a sliiight feeling that I won't be able to stay on top of the game for much longer.
But then again really, 200 T-ATK(hypothetical lv 200 cap) doesn't feel like much but considering even 20 t-atk adds so much(looking at you, Resta) I can see it doing a world of difference. Oh well, what can one expect when you're spouting 400 hp as a FO.

Sp-24
Jul 13, 2012, 02:02 AM
What level is your Mag? You need a whopping 113 T.Attack points to equip a 9* Talis (458 T.Attack requirement), which, if I remember right, is a lot more powerful than the alternatives.

EDIT: There is a Card weapon called Duel Gaze (according to its description, it's some sort of a duel disk product placement) that has almost the same T.Attack stat as the one I was talking about, and requires Ability instead. So, you may not need to exert yourself about raising T.Attack after all. You still need around 400 T.Attack to equip a Rod that is at least as powerful, though.

DARKWINGDARA
Jul 13, 2012, 02:15 AM
What level is your Mag? You need a whopping 113 T.Attack points to equip a 9* Talis (458 T.Attack requirement), which, if I remember right, is a lot more powerful than the alternatives.

EDIT: There is a Card weapon called Duel Gaze (according to its description, it's some sort of a duel disk product placement) that has almost the same T.Attack stat as the one I was talking about, and requires Ability instead. So, you may not need to exert yourself about raising T.Attack after all. You still need around 400 T.Attack to equip a Rod that is at least as powerful, though.

It's about lv.65, Tech/Abl mag. My base t-atk (including Mag) is about 340? Not too sure, but somewhere around that.
And now that I think about it my Mag gives me no more than 3x t-atk at most.

Megalomax
Jul 13, 2012, 03:31 AM
I'm about to start playing Force and I'm a newman male. What build do y'all recommend?

Sp-24
Jul 13, 2012, 03:51 AM
Something that includes Charge PP Revival, certainly. :)

Megalomax
Jul 13, 2012, 03:53 AM
Ok, I'll keep that in mind, thanks. I was just wondering what element was better off in the long wrong and what skills to get mainly.

DARKWINGDARA
Jul 13, 2012, 04:36 AM
Ok, I'll keep that in mind, thanks. I was just wondering what element was better off in the long wrong and what skills to get mainly.

Fire is currently the most "weak towards" element, and also has the best talents by far.
Charge PP and Charge DMG Up are must haves as far as I'm concerned.
PP Tech reduction is good because Gizonde is very PP hungry, and Ice can be more or less completely disregarded.

Megalomax
Jul 13, 2012, 04:38 AM
Thank you kindly!

TecherRamen
Jul 13, 2012, 10:07 AM
I would not disregard Ice spells. RAbarta and Barta have a realy incredible damage potential, far exceeding even RAfoie for a single cast, even when considering enemy weaknesses. Gizonde has the largest area of effect but it doesnt flinch lock enemies the way RAbarta will. Down the ice tree is also Freeze Boost, It does make a difference, and freezeing everything you encounter will be a help to both you and your team.

Overall The fire tree is the best. However when it comes to actual spells dont disregard any of them, they all come in handy some where, if you only use fire spells then youre not getting the most out of your PP.

Sp-24
Jul 13, 2012, 10:24 AM
I don't think Freeze Boost is any good. If other skill branches are of any indication, Freeze Boost modifies the chance of Freeze's activation by 1%, right? That's just not good enough. If it worked like Bolt PP Save, and added 1% to existing chance, then I think it would have been usable. Rabarta with 40% Freeze chance? Awesome. Rabarta with 33% Freeze chance? Underwhelming. Same with Gibarta - 27% is amazing, while 18,7% is a waste of 10 skill points.

I don't like Ice techniques at all, actually. I was using Gibarta a lot in Volcano before (and even then was using Gizonde for groups of enemies), but have switched to Foie and Rafoie recently. Even against Vol Dragon, I find Foie to be more effective than Barta or Gibarta.

Tenlade
Jul 13, 2012, 10:29 AM
I would not disregard Ice spells. RAbarta and Barta have a realy incredible damage potential, far exceeding even RAfoie for a single cast, even when considering enemy weaknesses. Gizonde has the largest area of effect but it doesnt flinch lock enemies the way RAbarta will. Down the ice tree is also Freeze Boost, It does make a difference, and freezeing everything you encounter will be a help to both you and your team.

Overall The fire tree is the best. However when it comes to actual spells dont disregard any of them, they all come in handy some where, if you only use fire spells then youre not getting the most out of your PP.

I've tried all three tech trees (yes i actually bought new ones twice...) And all I can say is after switching to the foie tree, there is no reason ever to switch to any other element.

Every single map has enemies weak to fire. You will be at a huge advantage during city events. You can hit a weakpoint easily by locking onto it then spamming rafoie. Anything that could be killed with a weakness can killed faster by rafoie with reduced charge time and a 120% boost. Spending PP isnsigificant if you want max dps, since you should be spending it fast as possible so you can go smack the enemy to charge it back up.

if you want to be different for the sake of it, get p charge revival then start putting stuff into bolt saver and the zonde tree if you want to clear rooms by spamming gizonde. Barta is useless.

TecherRamen
Jul 13, 2012, 03:05 PM
I don't think Freeze Boost is any good. If other skill branches are of any indication, Freeze Boost modifies the chance of Freeze's activation by 1%, right? That's just not good enough. If it worked like Bolt PP Save, and added 1% to existing chance, then I think it would have been usable. Rabarta with 40% Freeze chance? Awesome. Rabarta with 33% Freeze chance? Underwhelming. Same with Gibarta - 27% is amazing, while 18,7% is a waste of 10 skill points.

I don't like Ice techniques at all, actually. I was using Gibarta a lot in Volcano before (and even then was using Gizonde for groups of enemies), but have switched to Foie and Rafoie recently. Even against Vol Dragon, I find Foie to be more effective than Barta or Gibarta.

You cannot base ice spells on gibarta. Gibarta is just a bad spell, it does not have enough range to be effective.

I have Freeze Boost at 10. it is a very noticable difference.

TecherRamen
Jul 13, 2012, 03:08 PM
I've tried all three tech trees (yes i actually bought new ones twice...) And all I can say is after switching to the foie tree, there is no reason ever to switch to any other element.

Every single map has enemies weak to fire. You will be at a huge advantage during city events. You can hit a weakpoint easily by locking onto it then spamming rafoie. Anything that could be killed with a weakness can killed faster by rafoie with reduced charge time and a 120% boost. Spending PP isnsigificant if you want max dps, since you should be spending it fast as possible so you can go smack the enemy to charge it back up.

if you want to be different for the sake of it, get p charge revival then start putting stuff into bolt saver and the zonde tree if you want to clear rooms by spamming gizonde. Barta is useless.

Barta is not useless, it is a line spell. If things are lined up, it will hit all of them.
Every spell has a purpose. Rafoie spam is not the answer. =0

Spellbinder
Jul 13, 2012, 03:18 PM
You cannot base ice spells on gibarta. Gibarta is just a bad spell, it does not have enough range to be effective.

I have Freeze Boost at 10. it is a very noticable difference.

I'm under the assumption that it does indeed add on, resulting in 40% freeze for Barta and Rabarta at level 10?

TecherRamen
Jul 13, 2012, 04:01 PM
Im not realy sure. the wiki says its 110% at level ten. but I swear my chance to freeze has increased more than 3% (assuming 30 base chance to freeze).

Also the quality of the freeze is better: Enemies are frozen for longer, and the freeze does not always break when hit(altho this is rare)

Ice skills are good for immobilizing the enemy. The emphasis is not on dealing lumped damage but in spreading it out over multiple hits. Because each spell hits multiple times it gives you an even better chance to freeze, especially with rabarta.
Further more ice spells have good range(with the exception of Gibarta) and duration. Which means that you have more chance to to hit an enemy, even if it is with only a single hit.

TecherRamen
Jul 13, 2012, 04:02 PM
The usefulness of Barta.

it did about 350+ damage/enemy. Thats ~1050 damage total.

[spoiler-box]http://i1173.photobucket.com/albums/r591/RedWarBlade/pso20120713_165100_002.jpg[/spoiler-box]

Asuni
Jul 13, 2012, 11:30 PM
Does anyone have a lightning and/or ice build? Also besides zonde the other two confuse me... @_@

Darki
Jul 14, 2012, 03:47 AM
Does anyone have a lightning and/or ice build? Also besides zonde the other two confuse me... @_@

You mean the techs?

Razonde is epic, you shoot one enemy and you'll damage most neraby enemies without needing to worry about ther position. Gizonde, I don't really like it. That tech has been designed to promote the use of a Talis in TPS mode, because the higher you cast the spell the wider the area, so the best use for it is to jump and cast the tech, or throw the talis high and cast it from there.

Also, Sazonde shoots a lightning orb to an enemy that "electrifies" it, and if you follow it with another lightning spell you'll make it to suffer some damage over time, like if it was burned. But is not really too useful unless you're fignting non-boss monsters with a shitload of HP, as in most of the cases you can nuke anything with two~three Razondes.

TecherRamen
Jul 14, 2012, 09:41 AM
Does anyone have a lightning and/or ice build? Also besides zonde the other two confuse me... @_@

The truth is that the fire tree really does have the best skills. I am still working on my ice build so there are some unknoWns. However I can vouch for a lvl10 freeze boost being very effective. Freeze ignition is verry difficult to use And at the monent I would not suggest putting a point or two into it just so that you have the option if you're in the right situation. For lightning I would say the usefulness there is in the bolt tech save but I cannot vouch first hand

DARKWINGDARA
Jul 14, 2012, 10:14 AM
The truth is that the fire tree really does have the best skills. I am still working on my ice build so there are some unknoWns. However I can vouch for a lvl10 freeze boost being very effective. Freeze ignition is verry difficult to use And at the monent I would not suggest putting a point or two into it just so that you have the option if you're in the right situation. For lightning I would say the usefulness there is in the bolt tech save but I cannot vouch first hand

but the issue still persists that not a lot of enemies are weak towards ice, leaving you doing less dps than if you would've went another tree.
as it currently is i only use razonde, rafoie and gigrants(this shit is op). only time i did ever use -barta was in volcano caverns and that's the only time i actually did find it useful to be able to freeze(freezing the dragon is awesome).

Ysi
Jul 14, 2012, 06:59 PM
You mean the techs?

Razonde is epic, you shoot one enemy and you'll damage most neraby enemies without needing to worry about ther position. Gizonde, I don't really like it. That tech has been designed to promote the use of a Talis in TPS mode, because the higher you cast the spell the wider the area, so the best use for it is to jump and cast the tech, or throw the talis high and cast it from there.

Also, Sazonde shoots a lightning orb to an enemy that "electrifies" it, and if you follow it with another lightning spell you'll make it to suffer some damage over time, like if it was burned. But is not really too useful unless you're fignting non-boss monsters with a shitload of HP, as in most of the cases you can nuke anything with two~three Razondes.

I believe you have Razonde and Gizonde backwards. Gizonde is a chain lightning technic, while Razonde is the area of effect thunder technic.

Does anyone have a rough idea of how much more damage you are doing when you utilize an element that a mob is weak to?

HunterFusion
Jul 14, 2012, 07:02 PM
Does anyone do a two way element skill? I need to know some basics from your point of view. Best recommended?

TecherRamen
Jul 14, 2012, 08:20 PM
but the issue still persists that not a lot of enemies are weak towards ice, leaving you doing less dps than if you would've went another tree.
as it currently is i only use razonde, rafoie and gigrants(this shit is op). only time i did ever use -barta was in volcano caverns and that's the only time i actually did find it useful to be able to freeze(freezing the dragon is awesome).

Bart's has infinite range. Even if there isn't a weekness you could over power a weakness spell by sheer number of targets.

Rabarta hits 4 times each with a chance to freeze. And it will hit everything within its aof. It's hits flinch lock most enemies and interrupt their attack sequences. It also has a good aof.

The strength of them is not in weakness. You don't get a couple of big numbers. You get a lot of small numbers and they add up.

It's strength is in its utility. Also eats easier to look at and more team freindly. It's hard to be inside a rafoie it's difficult on son lower end Gfx processores and it's hard to look at.

I'm not trying to bash rafoie. I'm saying that sometimes ice can op it. If I hit 4 targets with Bart's for 450 that's 1800 dmg. Vs 2 targets with rafoie at 800dmg its 1600. Rafoie is really good for lone enemies but they have to be clustered pretty tight to hit a lot of them. Like wise I think gizonde(chain lightning) could be the most powerfull skill for multiple targets.

TecherRamen
Jul 14, 2012, 09:03 PM
Does anyone do a two way element skill? I need to know some basics from your point of view. Best recommended?

I met some one who did. She was ice and fire. however her goal was a lvl 10 photon flare. I have played with distributing points among more than one skill tree. The funny thing about this game is that it seems almost every skill is all or nothing (except freeze ignition i think would be ok with a point or 2, not massive damage but at least you have the option).

http://ryuhiroshi.ry.funpic.de/pso2/force.html?01FO!IOI2kbI2dtHNInbnci
thats all three.
its the best of every world.
Cheap lightning,
fast fire
and a potent freeze.
Threw in just reversal because it is pretty good if you get knocked down(if you never get hit dont do it).

ice and fire
http://ryuhiroshi.ry.funpic.de/pso2/force.html?01FO!IOI2kbI2dwHXIn6

lightning and fire
http://ryuhiroshi.ry.funpic.de/pso2/force.html?01FO!IOI2kbI2dxIkfbncAf

ice and lightning
http://ryuhiroshi.ry.funpic.de/pso2/force.html?01FO!IOI2tOjHNcIbncAf

Just pumped what I think are the core aspects of each element. But there are a lot of variables you could shuffle.

Photon flare is suited to a unique play style. I have 2 points in it and usually forget to turn it on. but for some one who really wants to use it then maybe this: http://ryuhiroshi.ry.funpic.de/pso2/force.html?01FO!IOI2kbI2dsbxbnIkj
you could kill a boss pretty will with a rafoie spam(rockbear). I think when it comes to the desert boss and katarydon Then RaBarta is a little bitter because it can hit so many of the surrounding smaller targets in addition to the main one (remote cast with talis for best effect)

These are just opinions and you could always just save your sp until you figure out what kind of play style you have.

Asuni
Jul 15, 2012, 12:13 AM
I believe you have Razonde and Gizonde backwards. Gizonde is a chain lightning technic, while Razonde is the area of effect thunder technic.

Does anyone have a rough idea of how much more damage you are doing when you utilize an element that a mob is weak to?

Oh OK Now I understand. I like Ice the best though thats why I would put points in it :P

You guys are so helpful!

HunterFusion
Jul 15, 2012, 01:38 AM
I met some one who did. She was ice and fire. however her goal was a lvl 10 photon flare. I have played with distributing points among more than one skill tree. The funny thing about this game is that it seems almost every skill is all or nothing (except freeze ignition i think would be ok with a point or 2, not massive damage but at least you have the option).

http://ryuhiroshi.ry.funpic.de/pso2/force.html?01FO!IOI2kbI2dtHNInbnci
thats all three.
its the best of every world.
Cheap lightning,
fast fire
and a potent freeze.
Threw in just reversal because it is pretty good if you get knocked down(if you never get hit dont do it).

ice and fire
http://ryuhiroshi.ry.funpic.de/pso2/force.html?01FO!IOI2kbI2dwHXIn6

lightning and fire
http://ryuhiroshi.ry.funpic.de/pso2/force.html?01FO!IOI2kbI2dxIkfbncAf

ice and lightning
http://ryuhiroshi.ry.funpic.de/pso2/force.html?01FO!IOI2tOjHNcIbncAf

Just pumped what I think are the core aspects of each element. But there are a lot of variables you could shuffle.

Photon flare is suited to a unique play style. I have 2 points in it and usually forget to turn it on. but for some one who really wants to use it then maybe this: http://ryuhiroshi.ry.funpic.de/pso2/force.html?01FO!IOI2kbI2dsbxbnIkj
you could kill a boss pretty will with a rafoie spam(rockbear). I think when it comes to the desert boss and katarydon Then RaBarta is a little bitter because it can hit so many of the surrounding smaller targets in addition to the main one (remote cast with talis for best effect)

These are just opinions and you could always just save your sp until you figure out what kind of play style you have.

Thanks man, I seemed to be going the right direction without knowing at all xD

Zipzo
Jul 17, 2012, 04:32 PM
Does playing the elements yield as great of an effect as it did in PSU?

How important is it to utilize mob weaknesses? The reason I ask is because I would find it counter-productive to specialize in a branch if I will essentially not utilize any of the skills I've put points in to in certain missions.

Insight?

I like lightning spells, they are my fave. However, I recognize the importance of a lot of the skills in the fire tree. Ice, I'm just kinda *shrug on. All of this is having me in a bind on where to spend my points (I've only spent the first 3).

D-Inferno
Jul 19, 2012, 12:42 PM
Does adding a single point to Fire/Ice/Lightning Mastery boost their power from 100% to 105%? If so, then everyone should be adding at -least- one point into all three of those.

holmwood
Jul 19, 2012, 01:07 PM
Does adding a single point to Fire/Ice/Lightning Mastery boost their power from 100% to 105%? If so, then everyone should be adding at -least- one point into all three of those.


Yup. That's why Im using the one point I have left on ice mastery instead of just reversal.XD

Sp-24
Jul 19, 2012, 01:10 PM
They shouldn't if they, for example, don't want to even touch ice-elemental techs, or only want them for the Freeze effect.

Arkios
Jul 19, 2012, 05:35 PM
Can someone tell me what the hell the 4th tech is in the lightning tree?

I know Zonde, Gizonde and Razonde... but what is the 4th one called? Also, what the heck does it do? It looks like it shoots a lightning ball at enemies, but it doesn't seem to do any damage, it just puts an odd looking lightning ball around them.

Carillon
Jul 19, 2012, 06:25 PM
it's SaZonde
if they're hit by another lighting tech while under that debuff, it'll apply a dot that also zaps nearby foes.

general consensus is that it blows, because it's too much work to use to any decent effect.

Kondibon
Jul 19, 2012, 06:41 PM
Does playing the elements yield as great of an effect as it did in PSU?

How important is it to utilize mob weaknesses? The reason I ask is because I would find it counter-productive to specialize in a branch if I will essentially not utilize any of the skills I've put points in to in certain missions.

Insight?

I like lightning spells, they are my fave. However, I recognize the importance of a lot of the skills in the fire tree. Ice, I'm just kinda *shrug on. All of this is having me in a bind on where to spend my points (I've only spent the first 3).Well it seems to me that since enemies only have weaknesses, not resistances there's no downside to using the same element most of the time. I find a noticeable increase in damagewhen using an enemies weakness, especially if I hit a weak point, but it's not enought to keep me from just spamming Gi-Grants, and rafoie all day.

That said I'm focusing on the neutral parts of the skill trees, so I've dug a bit into fire and ice for pp revival and photon flare.

TecherRamen
Jul 19, 2012, 10:12 PM
it's SaZonde
if they're hit by another lighting tech while under that debuff, it'll apply a dot that also zaps nearby foes.

general consensus is that it blows, because it's too much work to use to any decent effect.

Not if youre in TPS mode. its no harder to aim than rafoie. it also seems to have a debilitating effect on some robots. I use it on the larger ones that move around. robots seem to be much weaker to lightning than say a dagun is to fire.

TecherRamen
Jul 19, 2012, 10:32 PM
Does playing the elements yield as great of an effect as it did in PSU?

How important is it to utilize mob weaknesses? The reason I ask is because I would find it counter-productive to specialize in a branch if I will essentially not utilize any of the skills I've put points in to in certain missions.

Insight?

I like lightning spells, they are my fave. However, I recognize the importance of a lot of the skills in the fire tree. Ice, I'm just kinda *shrug on. All of this is having me in a bind on where to spend my points (I've only spent the first 3).

A lot of the spells have utility, not just damage.

take the cyclone spells for instance(gifoie, rabarta, gigrants). gi foie pushes things so its good for engaging targets with a rod especially if you have the increaed charge speed, it is 2 orbiting projectiles, not an AOE. Rabarta deals damage at a set interval and if you continually cast it the interval between hits does not change, this makes it good for flinch-locking a group of enemies and preventing them from moving. Gi grants has amazing power and range, however it takes a while to charge and has a short duration, enemies can move away from it before you can recast, or they can attack you and interrupt the charge sequence before you recast.

as far as weaknesses? I use ice in the tundra. Rabarta for the mentioned effect. Also barta because of its range. Barta can hit an enemy close to you as well as enemies far away from you with a single cast. meaning that if conditions are right you can deal more damage than with a rafoie. Fire charges quick but it burns through PP and can leave you empty when you need a heal or another spell. However it is very powerfull, especially against single enemies. It is a double edged sword.

D-Inferno
Jul 21, 2012, 08:58 AM
When one uses Photon Flare, does the HP drop remain even after the T-ATK boost has vanished?

http://ryuhiroshi.ry.funpic.de/pso2/force.html?01FO!IOI2kbI22SIxfbnbnI4

Thinking of using this tree when the Lv50 update comes. I'm starting to wonder if getting Just Reversal was a good idea on my Force. Mirage Escape not only makes dodging easy, but there is also the fact that when you do a JR, the "spinning jump" part has you vunerable, meaning that using JR coudl actually get you killed. Meanwhile, Forces probably are the least likely to get knocked down as they can dodge attacks easily.

However, I can't help but feel as if losing out on it will be bad in situations where you do need it. Plus your overall JA Charge power only goes down 1% anyway.

SPOnion
Jul 21, 2012, 08:45 PM
A few observations after playing ice Fo for some time (now lv 40 and finished 4 tablet and in underground)

1. Reduced Charge Time for fire is VERY DELICIOUS, especially when you are facing enemies that have a lot of interruptions, such as the puppies in frozen lands.
It DOES NOT make your PP run faster. In fact, it will make your casting safer and the time saved by the reduced charge could be used to regenerate PP. Not to mention how much PP would be wasted if you are interrupted.

2. Recovering PP while charging is very good. Many Japanese wiki sites even list it as the "MUST HAVE" for FOs. And it requires at least moderate SPs in Fire

3. With the two skills above Fire FOs usually have a better time.

4. Ice FO is hilariously weak. Frozen seems to be a strong condition but don't let it fool you. It breaks after a few hits, no matter what the damage is per hit. So assuming you are in a group (or taking NPCs), it basically does nothing since each time you freeze something almost in like 1s the ice is broken by someone. In fact, some times your own ice magics will break your freeze in less than 1 second.

5. Only bosses in the volcano can be frozen. I have not been able to freeze a single boss that is not in the volcano area, and I have like 9 SP in the freezing chance up. Now I regret about it every moment I look at my character.

6. The efficiency of Photon Flare is debatable. I have put 10 SPs in it and yes it does more damage when activated, but only for around 10-20s, because it can be interrupted when casting (so you have to look for a safe place) and ice FOs just don't have that much PP to spam. Now I seriously wonder if I should have put them to Magic ATT, since 200 Mag ATT in 30s for a 120 CD is basically like 50 Mag Att all the time in average, and the later would count for your item requirement and does not reduce your HP.

7. So now I'm using Light magics. The single targeted one is auto-homing once you lock and usually does not get blocked by many kinds of terrains. You can use it to hit the weak point with basically no worries, unlike the ice magics.

The Lv 3 AoE does even more damage than my modified (1.2X) ice AoEs (Lv 10), and the area of effect is at least 1.5 times bigger. Enemies get cleared with about 2 casts instead of 4 casts of ice, and dead is the best condition FO (or every other class) would like to impose(besides Light clears mobs much faster).

And that is WITHOUT ANY TALENT for light magics.

8. If you don't want to pay for it and want to try every class. Feed your Mag only skill disks.
Skill is useful for any of the class. Basically 2 points in skills raise your minimum damage by 1 (not accurate). The current system seems to use the comparison of skills as an alternative for "hit rate", in other words, the higher your skill the more damage you do (as opposed to the "the more you hit"). However it caps at 90% of the maximum damgae, which is determined by the Mag ATT.

9. Weapons with 7 or above stars have a secret modifier. Current data indicates it possibly modifies your Skill attribute. As for how much, the number seems to imply a 50-70 difference for the minimum damage if the ATT is the same. And my own test does show that 7/9 star weapons do have much stable damages compared with 5 star weapons (with almost the same ATT).

10. I have not tried Elec but Static seems to be at least a decent condition (compared with frozen and ignite). Also according to this list, it is the most PP cost efficiency path for a FO.

http://wikiwiki.jp/force/?%A5%C6%A5%AF%A5%CB%A5%C3%A5%AF



----------------------

That said, there is still hope for those that like ice.

http://pso2.swiki.jp/index.php?%E3%83%86%E3%82%AF%E3%83%8B%E3%83%83%E3% 82%AF%2F%E3%83%86%E3%82%AF%E3%83%8B%E3%83%83%E3%82 %AF%E7%B3%BB

Some skills are locked currently and ice magic does have one single target one サ・バータ that does even more damage than the light version.
So don't give up Ice FOs!

TecherRamen
Jul 21, 2012, 09:41 PM
When one uses Photon Flare, does the HP drop remain even after the T-ATK boost has vanished?

http://ryuhiroshi.ry.funpic.de/pso2/force.html?01FO!IOI2kbI22SIxfbnbnI4

Thinking of using this tree when the Lv50 update comes. I'm starting to wonder if getting Just Reversal was a good idea on my Force. Mirage Escape not only makes dodging easy, but there is also the fact that when you do a JR, the "spinning jump" part has you vunerable, meaning that using JR coudl actually get you killed. Meanwhile, Forces probably are the least likely to get knocked down as they can dodge attacks easily.

However, I can't help but feel as if losing out on it will be bad in situations where you do need it. Plus your overall JA Charge power only goes down 1% anyway.

No. after the 30s your HP returns to normal. JR is up to you. if you get knocked down alot go for it. I honestly forget i have it alot and dont take advantage of it.

To the guy above this post: nice post. I think you hit a lot of nails on the head. I will still say that RaBarta has the best flinch lock, when you use it hits in such away that nothing can escape it, which can be good to help out a hunter. And Barta is nasty especially against a long train of robots. Freeze is a great SE, i dont think you should rely on it but it definitely helps a lot situations especially if youre alone. freeze ignition is good sometimes, its worth having but not worth making the center of your play style, sometimes it comes in handy.

I have 3 trees and am planning to get more. I have a pure ice and a pure fire and this:
http://ryuhiroshi.ry.funpic.de/pso2/force.html?01FO!IOI24OI2dsHNInbncAf

It is my favorite. Why I like this is because of the lightning. I have been learning to use Sazonde and it does decent damage over time and the reduced cost in techs means you can attack for a long time, especially with gizonde which has a HUGE area of effect when used well.

SPOnion
Jul 21, 2012, 09:58 PM
Technically speaking freeze will be useful in a situation where it is impossible to stop a large incoming force but you have to. Sadly, that is rare in the current game. People actually loves swarming monster (Burst! Burst! Burst!) because the game up to now doesn't really have that many real threatening groups swarming from all sides, and even if there are (like the frozen lands puppies), they cannot be frozen.

Besides, the fact that frozen gets so easily disrupted makes it almost impossible to deal with. Assuming you froze a few in a group, then what? Should or should not you or your teammate attack? And what skills are mostly used in such situation? AOES.

Also it needs to be mentioned that the damage of ice magics are seriously lagging behind the rest of the paths. While the fire/elect/light can clean a group of mob in a fast pace, ice have to do it much more slowly, which means 1. more PP cost. 2 more danger, since as mentioned before, freeze mostly does nothing to mitigate ANY dangerous situation due to its fragile design (and the fact it is actually easier to kill one monster than to freeze it with other means.

In other words, in the current game, there is basically no way for freeze to be even decently useful at least. It might be good sometimes, but the "sometimes" happens so rare that it is almost ignorable (except when fighting volcano monsters, which you barely see after only a few stages).

---------------------

For long train of robots I just throw in a few Light AoEs in a fast pace and the space is clean and clear again...
If I use ice magic it will be like jumping and dodging and spend almost double the time watching them frozen/frozen break/frozen/frozen break/and finally go to rest.
And I don't even bother with Freeze Ignition since it's totally a joke.

--------------------

If only I can adjust my character's skill tree free XD

D-Inferno
Jul 21, 2012, 10:21 PM
http://ryuhiroshi.ry.funpic.de/pso2/force.html?01FO!IOI2kbIk2KIwinj

Thinking about this one, Only problem is that Zonde series kind of sucks without the Bolt Tech PP save... or does it not?

http://ryuhiroshi.ry.funpic.de/pso2/force.html?01FO!IOI2kbI2dFIoinj

Current tree. I'd like to have decent Fire, but I also want to be good everywhere. I also want a lot in Charge and JA Advances so that Wind, Light, and Dark are strong too.

SPOnion
Jul 21, 2012, 10:30 PM
I would suggest no freeze boost and ignition. The later is a joke and deserves a "1001 Things That Spoil Your Freeze Ignite" thread, unless you want Photon flare.

Even then I would recommend put 10sp in 10 T ATK up since the 50 ATK is always in effect and count as your attribute for item requirements. That way you MAG has less pressure

Also Ice Mastery with 1 SP is enough since it provides a 5%, after that unless you plan to go full 10 SP it's better to spend it else where (like, T ATK).

If you really like condiitons, Shock currently is the only decent one. So you might consider a mixture of fire and lightning. Leaving ice out, only one point in Ice Mastery.

On the other hand, 10 SP in T defense might be decent, since the 9 star armors requires 422 T defense and Human Male Fo has only 360 at lv 40 (female 37 8 ), newman the same, cast 342/342

D-Inferno
Jul 21, 2012, 10:36 PM
FYI, I am a FOnewm, and I like to basically do a lot of damage. I'm very offense driven. I do not care much about status.

The real problem I have is if I should got for the PP Bolt save thing, and thus the JA Bonus. I'm not sure how the Skill Trees will be handled in the Big Update, but if this skill tree is still in use, I would like to have strong Wind, Light, and Dark techniques as well.

EDIT: How does the extra 40 attack compare to, say, putting 7 points into JA bonus?

Shinmarizu
Jul 21, 2012, 10:46 PM
I'm glad everyone's putting in their input, because I have wondered at times whether I'm going in the right direction for my character. Thanks to everyone so far.

SPOnion
Jul 21, 2012, 10:50 PM
Yes, PP Bolt Save is very useful for that path. It makes it the most PP efficient one. Without it the whole path is only so-so. So if you plan to go for shock (or even half the time), then, 10 SP in it is highly recommended.

As for Extra 40 Vs JA, I would say the extra 40 with Charge up is actually better, because most of the time you will be doing charge damage. Compared with that JA is more situational (especially if your network is a bit laggy). Also the Atk is useful since it allows you to wield more powerful weapons.

So you can reduce the sps into ice to 1 from 16 and spend the 15 sp to get Tech Charge Advance and T ATK. Ignore JA if you must. Or level flame T charge to lv 7. But in that sense it might be better to go for pure fire FO because it provides the best damage and better survivability.

And I forgot to mention, currently the ice path lacks any effective way to hit anything above the ground safely and accurately. That is why many have switched to Light since it auto locks.

D-Inferno
Jul 21, 2012, 11:02 PM
http://ryuhiroshi.ry.funpic.de/pso2/force.html?01FO!IOI2kbI2dFIoinj

Possible Skill tree for the Lv50 update. Since everything Fire gets maxed, I don't really know where to put the rest of the skill points.

Also, it is worth noting that Charge Tech Advance and JA Tech Advance all boost a "Just Charge Attack", so maxing all three sides would result in a x1.3ish boost in "Just Charged Attacks:.

soulpimpwizzurd
Jul 22, 2012, 12:04 AM
yeah, i like using all the spells so i don't wanna play favorites with any particular tree. i'm just maxing charge tech advance and ja tech advance

TecherRamen
Jul 22, 2012, 11:18 AM
Flame tech S charge at lvl 10 is realy nice, the 50% charge time is more or less instantaneous for all flame techs.
Bolt save at 10 is totally worth it, it extends the number of spells you cast BY alot when paired with PP revival.

And by Onions testimony why even try to use ice at all? Put that skill point some where else! 5% damage isnt very much especially when you dont ever use it. =P

The point is that enemies remain frozen forever, of course they should attack. the point is that ice spells slow enemies down and keep them from dispersing.

Does anyone actually try to use barta in TPS mode?

soulpimpwizzurd
Jul 22, 2012, 01:13 PM
Flame tech S charge at lvl 10 is realy nice, the 50% charge time is more or less instantaneous for all flame techs.
Bolt save at 10 is totally worth it, it extends the number of spells you cast BY alot when paired with PP revival.

And by Onions testimony why even try to use ice at all? Put that skill point some where else! 5% damage isnt very much especially when you dont ever use it. =P

The point is that enemies remain frozen forever, of course they should attack. the point is that ice spells slow enemies down and keep them from dispersing.

Does anyone actually try to use barta in TPS mode?

i love barta in tps, it's really fun. and shifta is really easy to cast spam when flame charge is at 10, it helps keep overall party damage pretty damn high.

SPOnion
Jul 22, 2012, 06:14 PM
20 SP in charge makes all your spells do 1.2 damage, including light, and 1 point in ice makes it 1.25, which is not bad if you want to do volcano quests.

As for dispersing...currently there is technically no battle in which you want to keep them close. People do damage so fast that it's basically no problem whether they disperse or not. And you cannot even freeze most bosses.

So yes, ice is technically no use at all currently, unless you want T-Defense and don't want to feed your Mag armors. Photon flare is no exception since if you are doing 1000 damage, 10% by charge is basically the same with flare, and it is always on.

It might change after the next big patch but no, personally I do think 1 point in ice mastery would be it all under current condition.

Geistritter
Jul 22, 2012, 06:32 PM
As for Extra 40 Vs JA, I would say the extra 40 with Charge up is actually better, because most of the time you will be doing charge damage. Compared with that JA is more situational (especially if your network is a bit laggy).

There's absolutely nothing that support that last part, especially considering damage, hit checks, enemy placement except for bosses, and yes, Just Attack timing are all user-side. Your network has absolutely no effect on it.

TecherRamen
Jul 22, 2012, 06:32 PM
20 SP in charge makes all your spells do 1.2 damage, including light, and 1 point in ice makes it 1.25, which is not bad if you want to do volcano quests.

As for dispersing...currently there is technically no battle in which you want to keep them close. People do damage so fast that it's basically no problem whether they disperse or not. And you cannot even freeze most bosses.

So yes, ice is technically no use at all currently, unless you want T-Defense and don't want to feed your Mag armors. Photon flare is no exception since if you are doing 1000 damage, 10% by charge is basically the same with flare, and it is always on.

It might change after the next big patch but no, personally I do think 1 point in ice mastery would be it all under current condition.

You dont know what youre doing. Keeping enemies close makes it easier to deal bulk damage for all classes not just force, I have heard this from hunters and rangers and it has always been true in Online PS games: PSO V1&2 PSU PSP. you can deal more damage by clustering enemies. maybe if youre lvl 40 its not a big deal, but you dont start out LV 40. you raise a lot of good points but on this one you are DEAD WRONG.

SPOnion
Jul 22, 2012, 06:48 PM
From Lv 1 to Lv 40, I've been using intensively ice until recently, so no, it's not the "Talk from lv 40".

You absolutely can deal more damage theoretically, but I tried, the frozen condition got broken in such a short time that I found there is basically no difference whether I froze them or not. And it also seems that the lovely multi-hit freezing spells can actually break your own freeze since they MULTIHIT. They got broken with like 3 to 5 hits and even three 9 damage hits or your FO's lovely AOES will almost guarantee a freeze broken.

It sometimes is useful in solo, but how many times does one solo in the game. You get all sorts of items from NPCs and you can team up with other players with only 1 NPC to finish his/her/its quests. And they almost all always make your freeze broken. NPCs don't care they are frozen or not, especially.

It's like watching your carefully built sand castle swept away, again, again, again and again, and it is really tiresome. This becomes worse when you are playing with 3 NPCs (you cannot always find a team anyway). It is a nightmare to play an ice Fo because the NPCs will constantly remind you of how silly you are to try to put those special points into the ice path.

On the other hand, well, if JA are all on the user side then it might be good. But you've only got 45 SPs so far and if you love damage at least around 30 will go to Fire, and Shock path needs that 10 SP into PP reduction to be efficient. I suggest 10sp in ATT not only because of mere damage but also the fact that if you don't want to pay but still enjoy every class, it's better to feed your MAG Skills, not T-ATT or other things. In other words, you won't be able to wield some items if you don't have a high enough ATT.

-----------------------------------

Well, on the other hand, if you feed your Mag T-ATT, fire FOs will make you feel so much better with Charge PP because you can absolutely abuse all you spells when you use your Mag's special arts. With 4 Fos they last for such an absurdly long time that you cannot help but cry out "One More!"

-------------------------------------

Also as mentioned, Ice has a locked spell that will be unlocked soon. It does even more damage than the Light single version, so later ice might be the most damaging path against a single foe. But not now.

TecherRamen
Jul 22, 2012, 11:00 PM
You're right about freeze not lasting long. But keeping things frozen has never been my point.

My points are that rabarta flinch-locks enemies since it hits at a fixed interval until you run out of PP.
Barta is extremely powerful in open spaces or corridors when enemies align. No other spell penetrates that way. and since it has infinite range stuff that gets frozen far away will not get hit for a while.

Lastly and most importantly when enemies are close together(or in a line for barta) any class can deal more damage by hitting multiple targets. Stun locking enemies (Rabarta) prevents them from dispersing and freezing an enemy even for an instant helps to achieve this.

if you want to bash freeze ignition go ahead, that one is hard to stand up for and, like photon flare, is a matter of personal preference.

and with barta if you freeze something with the first spell you can hit it again with the second, even if the second one breaks the freeze =0

Brindizer
Jul 22, 2012, 11:07 PM
I'm just gonna throw this out there:

Sazonde actually does really good damage -- if you don't charge it. You can rapid-fire it onto a target and then tag them with an uncharged Zonde. I was able to kill Tranmizer better and more efficiently than I was without using this method.

I do have Bolt Save 10, Lightning Mastery 10, and JA Bonus 10 on this tree. I also have 146 PP from equipment and Photon Drink, making rapid firing it a lot more effective. This functionality of Sazonde kind of explains "Normal Tech Advance" being under the lightning tree at least.

I can't help but wonder if it's a bug. Sazonde is pretty poor if you charge it. In its uncharged form, I've found it to be my strongest single-target lightning option by a good margin.

Sp-24
Jul 22, 2012, 11:27 PM
I've been running around Mines with Sazonde all day yesterday, and have yet to see a difference between charged and uncharged versions. I can vaguely remember making it do some decent damage some three weeks ago, but no matter what, can't replicate it now.

SPOnion
Jul 23, 2012, 12:46 AM
My points are that rabarta flinch-locks enemies since it hits at a fixed interval until you run out of PP.
Barta is extremely powerful in open spaces or corridors when enemies align. No other spell penetrates that way. and since it has infinite range stuff that gets frozen far away will not get hit for a while.

Lastly and most importantly when enemies are close together(or in a line for barta) any class can deal more damage by hitting multiple targets. Stun locking enemies (Rabarta) prevents them from dispersing and freezing an enemy even for an instant helps to achieve this.

if you want to bash freeze ignition go ahead, that one is hard to stand up for and, like photon flare, is a matter of personal preference.

and with barta if you freeze something with the first spell you can hit it again with the second, even if the second one breaks the freeze =0

No, my personal experience indicates they do not get locked.
As for stun locking, enemy will continue their action before the froze so if by any chance they are jumping/attacking/jumping and attacking before the freeze and the freeze is broken in an instant(which happens a lot), there will be no difference whether they are frozen or not, because the freeze is broken so fast.

As for penetrating, I don't have a good computer so I'm using the lowest option and enemies usually don't appear until a certain range. So if I see a group of robots, I just Light AoE (very large area, almost twice of the ice) them and they don't even bother to disperse because they got cleared super fast and because there is an NPC close enough to engage them. In fact dispersing has never been a problem even when I was using ice as main with a much smaller area

And yes, everything in this game is "personal preference", including the traps for hunter and so. People could still enjoy it no matter what because they are entitled to. But that does not explain why I'm doing 1200 damage with a lv 3 light magic and only around 800 with a level 10 ice, both have a multiplier of 1.2 against a robot which is only vulnerable to elec. It does not explain neither why I'm clearing a group of robots much faster with the light magic than the ice, even when you claim the later stops them from dispersing thus would suffer heavier damage. Or Why I'm doing almost the same damage with fire path skills as when I'm using Photon Flare, the former is always on and provides access to two very useful skills for ALL FOs while the later only lasts for 30s and has a 120cd and a 5 points prerequisite into a joke skill.

And again, targeting is never a problem for me. Group of enemies? Light AoE, single target? Light Arrow. Dragon's Tail/Horn, Light Arrow. Whatever weak point?Light Arrow. It is not a problem at all. Why do you even have to freeze it in order to hit in the first place is alien to me Ice indeed has a harder time to land those spells (which will possibly be fixed in a few patches) now since the penetrating one only hits things almost near the ground once it jumps for a few distance and the other two need to get close unless you are using a card disperser. But even back when I was using ice magics I just spam the AoE with disperser most of the time and never feel the need to freeze to hit.

Btw, I'm still using disperser because if feels so like a boss without the need to get even close and can land your spells almost anywhere you want.

word2own
Jul 23, 2012, 01:39 AM
So making a force. This is the first time touching a force ever. ATM, I'm liking the fire and ice techs the best so far, but just wondering what a typical force [heavy] dps tree and support (whether supporting teammates directly or CC'ing mobs) look like? Thanks.

drizzle
Jul 23, 2012, 02:04 AM
A few observations after playing ice Fo for some time (now lv 40 and finished 4 tablet and in underground)

1. Reduced Charge Time for fire is VERY DELICIOUS, especially when you are facing enemies that have a lot of interruptions, such as the puppies in frozen lands.
It DOES NOT make your PP run faster. In fact, it will make your casting safer and the time saved by the reduced charge could be used to regenerate PP. Not to mention how much PP would be wasted if you are interrupted.

2. Recovering PP while charging is very good. Many Japanese wiki sites even list it as the "MUST HAVE" for FOs. And it requires at least moderate SPs in Fire

3. With the two skills above Fire FOs usually have a better time.


Truths. Although I would say that not PP Revival is the "must have" skill, but Tech Charge S is. But both are excellent. With both talents, there's little reason to cast anything else than fire techs, except for Gigrants.

I've also tried the bolt tree myself and it's... okay. Most bolt techs have a high base cost and you need PP Save 10 to bring the cost down to reasonable levels but then you can cast the largest AoE in your arsenal for only 18 PP.
Since Razonde sucks, and Zonde is outperformed by Grants & Rafoie, Gizonde is really the only reason to use this tree and to be honest unless the entire area is weak to lightning, that reason just isn't big enough.

Right now Fire is the clear winner, but we're only at level 40 and I expect we'll see more additions to the trees before long, as well as trees for dark, light and wind.
If we get a casting speed boost in the Bolt tree as well, Fire will have a much harder time to stay competitive!