Hunter talent tree discussion

[Shinmarizu]

Stupid question, though: It's been a LONG time since I've used wired lances this much. Have the normal attacks always been guard cancelable? Because I seem to recall having issues with using the second normal hit and being stuck in the animation while wanting to guard, but now I can guard during it and it is freaking awesome.

I believe that previously, you could only guard cancel during certain parts of the attack animations - specifically when the lances were not fully extended. I could be wrong here, but that was my experience.

[God of Awesome]

@giga: Why Iron will to 10? That's a lot of SP. Isn't it just a gamble too? then I'm assuming you would need to heal? The rest looks like good advice.

[gigawuts]

I've been saying it's amazing for ages, but most people didn't really listen to me about it until just recently. Here's some responses from a recent thread:

http://www.pso-world.com/forums/showthread.php?p=2923447#post2923447

Basically, if you should die and have more than 1 hp, flip two coins irl. If they're not both tails, you would have lived.

[God of Awesome]

I've been trying to catch up and a lot of people seem to be agreeing with you. I guess I'll give it a go.

[UnLucky]

Is Fury stance in the majorities opinion something you need as a hunter?
Should I get all the gears despite only really using Sword(my favourite weapon)?
Is HP > DEF by a far and wide margin?
What's the majorities opinion on a a close to 'perfect' skill tree for hunter?
I've subclassed as a fighter to buff my main stats, was this wise?
I've ended up going for Wise on fighter, but I can't help shake that brave seems better.
What weapon/PA combo is currently putting in a lot work? Obviously it'll change based on the battle and situation, but for the most part. I usually prioritize range, then speed, then strength.
Fury Stance is secondary to JA Advance. But it's about the only real offensive option left for Hunters (after weapon gears and JA Advance). The Fury Stance Up skills are not really worth it unless you want to disregard any defensive option and/or want the extra R-Atk as well.

HP is good, yes, especially since Hunters are allergic to bullets and magic. Just Guard and dodging are better than either, and Iron Will is an amazing safety net.

Brave Stance is more usable, Wise Stance is more damage. You should have both, though.

Definitely try out all the PAs you can find. Charged, uncharged, comboed with something, whatever, test it out. Most people rely on Sonic Arrow, Over End, and Deadly Archer, though.

[God of Awesome]

Thanks, Unlucky. Some good stuff there. I actually rely on sonic arrow and over end and have done since I got each PA, haha. Good to know I'm on the right track. What weapon uses deadly archer? Should I look to max out on JAA? Is there a good number to hit on FA for bets results? Like 1, 5 or 10?

[Bellion]

The Double Sabers can use the Deadly Archer PA. You should max out both JA Bonuses on the Hunter Tree and you can't go wrong with having 5 or 10 on Fury Stance(That is what you mean by FA, right?) itself.

[God of Awesome]

Thanks and yeah FA = Fury Attack = Fury Stance.

[Alisha]

so im looking to buy a new tree for HU since right now i have a purely defensive one thats into flash guard 2. but i'm unsure what to spend my remaining 8 points in.
heres what i have so far.
its worth noting that i have step attack and just reversal on my Fi tree.
http://ryuhiroshi.funpic.de/pso2/skillcalc.html?03gBbdIkbdIkbdIkbdIkbdIkbdIkbMlO7bI nqnqKcA4QI2I2ik00007b00000ib00000ib0000Ib00000ib00 000f

advices appreciated.

[UnLucky]

Just Guard, Sword Gear and Wirelance Gear. Done.

Though I'd recommend Iron Will or Automate Halfline over Flash Guard.

[RyanDanger]

I just started yesterday and the skill tree boggles me @_@

Should I focus on maxing JA Bonus, get sword gear, or get just guard first?

Right now, my skills are JA Bonus1 3 and Fury Stance 3 and I have 5 left over.

[Alisha]

why just guard when you could just dash? i main partisan and all the pa's i use are dash cancelable. just guard would be a higher priority if i was maining WL. iron wall doesnt interest me i dont get hit hard enough by single hits for it to be useful. automate halfline is useful AFTER i run out of mono's. and not carrying them isnt an option yet.

[SociableTyrannosaur]

...just guard also reflects damage on your attacker and SWORD USERS BENEFIT(yeah the weapon you dont like and seem to be trying to steer people away from) since most sword PAs are guard cancelable.

iron will is something most people will swear by. it really seems like you're not playing AQs, because it's not hard to get hit by a gorongo from off screen and take another 800+ damage before you hit the ground, or get slammed while you're in the middle of an uncancelable hyper-armored PA and face plant even with 1100+ S def and 900-1000HP. Iron will lets you survive many of those instances with 1 HP and if your mag is in the habit of healing you, it lets you survive multiple death blows as long as your HP is partially restored between hits.

Anyway Ryan, if you use sword often (like me) get sword gear asap. it makes sword go from ok to amazing.

[gigawuts]

why just guard when you could just dash? i main partisan and all the pa's i use are dash cancelable. just guard would be a higher priority if i was maining WL. iron wall doesnt interest me i dont get hit hard enough by single hits for it to be useful. automate halfline is useful AFTER i run out of mono's. and not carrying them isnt an option yet.

Because you cannot "just dash" out of many, many attacks.

If you don't use swords nobody is going to give you shit for your bad decisions anymore. You make too many of them and we're mostly out of energy by now.

[Seravi Edalborez]

Partizan makes arguably just as much use out of it. All(?) of their PAs can be cancelled with (jump->guard).

Just Guard is only a 4 point diversion, total. That's more than affordable for complete damage nullification with pretty easy timing.

My personal priority chain: Step Attack > Just Guard and Sword Gear (any order) > JA Bonus / other gears

[Alisha]

i should mention that i with reguard to just guard i am using my experience with phantasy star portable 2 and infinity as a point of reference. my experience there was that you had to make a conscious decision beforehand to do a perfect block or enemy tipped off an attack to you. the speed of enemy attacks is much faster in this game and they dont really have tip offs. it could function differently i just dont know. i will puck it up on my alt and see for myself.

as for AQ's i have done them all multiple times to the point i have multiple stacks of 99 elemental stones for all 3 of the area's. the only time i was taking severe damage was a time i changed back to hunter and forgot to equip my units. and the only time i was 1 shotted at full health was by a tainted burn draal. however i could definately see a problem if someone was full timing fury stance. i've heard a certain someone uses elder set in AQ. no names please!

[SociableTyrannosaur]

i should mention that i with reguard to just guard i am using my experience with phantasy star portable 2 and infinity as a point of reference. my experience there was that you had to make a conscious decision beforehand to do a perfect block or enemy tipped off an attack to you. the speed of enemy attacks is much faster in this game and they dont really have tip offs. it could function differently i just dont know. i will puck it up on my alt and see for myself.

First off, the timing was not that strict and it only took maybe an hour of play before i could time blocks in succession and nullify almost all damage after seeing an attack once. The timing in this game is much less strict however.

That said every enemy in this game has a tell for every attack they're going to do. I'm sorry these tells have eluded you all this time, but its really not that hard to figure out what's coming.

[gigawuts]

If you can dodge, you can just guard. It's that simple. You need to guard a smidgen sooner, but you have a MUCH longer period where the guard will activate as a JG. Timing too soon will result in a normal guard, which is still reduced damage.

Many attacks are only guard cancelable, and due to animation times guard+dodge will not work.

Just get just guard.

[God of Awesome]

I've been testing Iron will since last time I was here and I'm indifferent to it. It's great when it goes off, but that's rarely the case as I take so little damage due to dashing and healing between battles(if needed). It has kicked in and saved me a few times though. If it was just 10 point to get it to max instead of 15, I'd support it, but as it stands I don't find it worthy of 15SP.

[SociableTyrannosaur]

What difficulty are you playing on?

[God of Awesome]

VH for the most part, but I've been doing more hard lately as I level my sub class.

EDIT: What sort of armour should I be aiming for with hunter? I'm just using the cheap and effective spike armour +10 right now. I'd pay about 1 mil per piece, but cheaper is better. I know 1 mil isn't a lot, but I don't have a shop for easy money and some of the TAs bore me so I do them infrequently.

[SociableTyrannosaur]

Easiest "good" set is ragne which is reasonably farmable. if you're using the 6* Spike armor, you're going to lose a little S Def but gain a ton of R Def and T Def while also gaining a lot of HP.

Alternatively you can go with the Blue Fen set. It's very much like Spike Set but a bit better in all aspects. Price wise though, I couldn't say what it costs. It's 9* so it could be cheap as dirt, or it could be something to pass on for now.

Zan set looks cool, but unless I'm missing something, the benefits are almost nonexistent.

As far as Iron Will: on Hard and V hard this skill will see very little use. It can save you now and then but current equipment makes those Difficulties a bit of a cake walk. AQs however boast lvl 60 lvl 3 infected enemies and (rare) bosses. it's not unheard of to get punched for 600+ damage twice before you hit the ground, or right in the middle of overend.

You WILL get more use out of that skill in AQs I guarantee it.

[Klashikari]

I'm currently using the Black Luxe set and it is quite a very good investment, considering the defensive stats and the humongous PP bonus.

Speaking of which, I'm torn between 2 options right now: either fully affix the set with Quartz Soul + Power III + Spirita Boost, or Vol Soul + Power III + Stamina boost.
The former basically catapult you into 150 PP treshold, assuming you affix your weapon with Quartz Soul (meaning 5 SA / 5 DA wrecking opportunity), but leave you with a very very awful HP pool (something like 650-700 as a HU/FI, worse if FI/HU, ).
Meanwhile, sticking with Vol Soul and Stamina Boost give you 260 extra HP in comparison, but then you are stuck with the 4 SA / DA with "only" 125 PP.

The obviously best outcome would be something like Quartz Soul + Power III + Stigma + Stamina Boost on the full set and weapon, but I really don't have the luck, competence, patience nor meseta funds for that... So either Soul + Power III + Boost OTZ

The prospect of having 150PP is just that tempting, but losing that much HP is just atrocious (since it would basically require only 2 non AQ big hit to be killed, instead of 3).

Your thoughts?

[gigawuts]

Easiest "good" set is ragne which is reasonably farmable. if you're using the 6* Spike armor, you're going to lose a little S Def but gain a ton of R Def and T Def while also gaining a lot of HP.

Just wanted to comment on this bit...

6* lucky rise units offer 50 HP for each unit, plus the 50 HP set bonus has been returned to us. Also, the units are pre-affixed with 40 HP for every unit. That's 320 HP for the set.

Ragne units are, unfortunately, just 40 HP each.

re: Dark wing set.

I find this mostly useful for fighter, which is faster, more mobile, and more PP-reliant than hunter. Hunter has a wider reach and longer PA animations. For hunter I'd say to go with 120 PP if possible, and aim for HP+def. If you're like me and go the lazy route, the spiky 6* lucky rise series is fine.

[Omega-z]

gigawuts - you mean 200+ Hp for the 6* and 170+ Hp for the 5* the natural 50x3 for 6* and 40x3 for 5* and the plus 50 for both there boost, or is there another boost not listed on the wiki for the 6*?

God of Awesome - Either way you lose Hp when switching to Ragne from Spike like gigawuts said.

[gigawuts]

6* units are all lucky rise units, as far as I'm aware. If you have 6* units you had to have gotten them for excubes, and they come with certain affixes. The spike series has spirita II, stamina II, and arm III, plus lucky rise I. That's 40 HP + 50 HP per unit = 90 HP per unit. 90*3=270, add on set bonus of 50 -> 320 hp.

[Omega-z]

Ah, that's right I'm a Airhead I forgot about the Affix's that come with it. Sorry gigawuts.:)

[Zorafim]

I've been rather disappointed with my offensive hunter build, since none of the skills really do much. I was thinking about using a defensive build, since you kind of need defense to survive in vhard anyway. Looking through the skills, three seem especially impressive.

Flashguard lowers damage taken by 20%, and there's two of them. Getting both will reduce my damage taken by 36%, meaning I take 2/3 damage from each attack. Just one of them will give me 4/5 damage taken.
Iron Will saves me from death 75% of the time. Considering how common one shots are, this seems really useful.
There's also automate, which would work well with flashguard. The biggest problem with being low on health is trying to recover health. This would solve that, since there wouldn't be a lengthy animation while I'm being chased by a lion (I've, erm, had some bad experiences).

Now, these are a lot of great skills. In order to get these, I'd have to really skimp on my build. I can skimp on just reversal, since I normally sub fighter anyway. While I love my partisan and wire lance skills, they really aren't all that great, and they take 12 skill points to get. And some of the skills I want get a great boost at lv1 and lv10, but not so great boosts in between.

So, all the great hunters of PSOW, this is my proposed skill tree for hunter sub fighter. This is not meant to be defensive, but simply a build which balances offense with defense. However, none of the offensive skills are used, because they aren't nearly as good as some of the defensive skills. With these skills, the hunter does not have to worry about playing defensively, and can be aggressive. Tell me what you think.

http://ryuhiroshi.funpic.de/pso2/skillcalc.php?03fbdIkbdIkbdIkbdIkbdIkbdIk0lbkI4Oj5 dIscFIkeK00007b00000ib00000ib0000Ib00000ib00000f

[SociableTyrannosaur]

skipping out on JA advance is is skipping on 21% bonus damage. Iron will alone will up your survival rate by quite a bit and let you still use Fury stance with some impunity. I'd go that route before looking at building for pure survival

[UnLucky]

The first point in Flash Guard 2 is a 10% chance to take 20% less damage, or 16% of the original total before FG1. So overall, FG2 is shielding you from 1.6% damage.

If you really must have both Iron Will and Automate, get rid of the Flash Guards and do this (http://ryuhiroshi.funpic.de/pso2/skillcalc.php?03fbdIkbdIkbdIkbdIkbdIkbdIk0lbkIqoqG bB5dIscAIk00009b00000ib00000ib0000Ib00000ib00000f) or axe Fury Stance and take only one point in FG1, for that 30% activation.

[Zorafim]

I thought it was a 30% chance for 20% less damage, making 6% damage negated. I would love to have a percentage of damage negated, but they're so far down the tree I wonder if it's worth it.

Doing a quick test, fury stance seems more useful than I thought. I boosted 50s to 60s, and 150s to 180s, so at that attack level, it was about a 20% boost; 2% per skill point. Maybe I jumped the gun on skipping that. I'm still not completely sold on JA boost though. 1% per level seems alright, but there are so many great skills I'm skipping out on if I max those.

Maybe I should just ask which defensive skills are incredible, and which aren't as great as they look. Iron Will definitely looks best, and it seems to work well with automate and poorly with flash guard. Flash guard also requires a ton of investment, much more than the other two mentioned. Perhaps, I should modify my build to this (http://ryuhiroshi.funpic.de/pso2/skillcalc.php?03fbdIkbdIkbdIkbdIkbdIkbdIk0lbkIqoGX cB5dInik00009b00000ib00000ib0000Ib00000ib00000f) or this. (http://ryuhiroshi.funpic.de/pso2/skillcalc.php?03fbdIkbdIkbdIkbdIkbdIkbdIk0lbkIqoGV cb5dIsInIk00009b00000ib00000ib0000Ib00000ib00000f) The first doesn't sacrifice any damage per hit, but it's less survivable. The second sacrifices about 4% damage, but allows a chance at instant healing.

By the way, did we ever solve that stacking step advance thing? I just did a test with and without a second step advance, and it looks like they don't stack. At least, I was always invincible during the stepping, but not during the pause afterwards. So either they don't stack, or there's a cap of .2 seconds on it. If the former, you're best at +10 on one class. If the latter, you're best at +3 on two classes.

[gigawuts]

The flash guards are kind of a spit in the face to hunters. All this RNG trolling BS, when other classes get things like deband cut ;/

[Zorafim]

Deband cut has a fatal flaw, though. It requires the caster use deband.

[gigawuts]

We can say that all we want, but at the end of the day what it really means is it gets consistent results with even 1 SP for 5% guaranteed while flash guards require a full 10 SP investment to have consistent results.

That 6% figure is misleading. Even with my 75% iron will proc rate, I can go up to 5 deaths in a row without success. It's just the RNG hard at work. It might never fail, it might always fail. With a proc rate of 30% you should not be betting on it ever succeeding, because it will frequently fail when you need it to survive.

Sure, it might also work, but it might not.

[UnLucky]

Flash Guard seriously should have been 5-20% (or more) reduction for 1-10 SP, or FG2 should have scaled the same way as FG1, because that is such a dick move. You or a friend of yours has FG2, right gigawuts? The JP wiki specifically mentions in writing that FG2 is different from FG1, and lists the differences, while cirnopedia has them as the same skill.

20% chance to use a mate is kinda terrible, especially if you stock monomates.

[gigawuts]

A friend has it, but he ranked it up to 10 in one go. I don't believe you can check past level bonuses.

I DO have an extra sheet with extra points, and it IS for tanking. I'm just not sure I'd want to throw the SP at a skill I don't really want before getting a free all-tree reset to undo it.

If we get the reset, I'll check it out one level at a time.

[Zorafim]

Bah, I guess it doesn't really matter. I'm having too many difficulties getting web money, so I'm just going to wait until the free reset. By then, I'm sure the fury tree is going to look like the fire tree, and there'll be no reason to go into the guard tree. Until then, I guess I'll just work on sword gear.


Even with my 75% iron will proc rate, I can go up to 5 deaths in a row without success. It's just the RNG hard at work. It might never fail, it might always fail. With a proc rate of 30% you should not be betting on it ever succeeding, because it will frequently fail when you need it to survive.

Sure, it might also work, but it might not.

The probability of it not working five times in a row is 0.1%. That's one case out of a thousand. It is just as likely to succeed 23 times in a row. Out of five times, it is expected to proc 3.75 times.

I'm fully aware how probability works. I'm only interested in the average case.

[Gardios]

How'd I go about making a full tank build? I had one planned before, but took a break... and now we got the Flash Guard skills.

This (http://ryuhiroshi.funpic.de/pso2/skillcalc.php?03tAbdIkbdIkbdIkbdIkbdIkbdIk9Mjebkb4 Oj4XIn00000ib00000ib00000ib0000kbI2ds000084OdqldI2 IF0000) is what I have right now. Maybe something like this (http://ryuhiroshi.funpic.de/pso2/skillcalc.php?03tAbdIkbdIkbdIkbdIkbdIkbdIk9Mjebkb4 OjmkIsI2fcK00007b00000ib00000ib0000kbIk2XcK000064O dqj2SHXcF0000)? I really have no idea. :V

Mag would probably end up with something like ~60 SDEF to have enough for future updates and the rest put into SATK.

[Alisha]

i was planning to do a hybrid build with both ja bonus and flash guard 1 but if changes are on the way im not sure.

[gigawuts]

Bah, I guess it doesn't really matter. I'm having too many difficulties getting web money, so I'm just going to wait until the free reset. By then, I'm sure the fury tree is going to look like the fire tree, and there'll be no reason to go into the guard tree. Until then, I guess I'll just work on sword gear.



The probability of it not working five times in a row is 0.1%. That's one case out of a thousand. It is just as likely to succeed 23 times in a row. Out of five times, it is expected to proc 3.75 times.

I'm fully aware how probability works. I'm only interested in the average case.

Again: Paper and practice are not the same thing. The reality of the game is its RNG is either very poorly designed and prone to streaks, or intentionally designed to throw streaks at you.

[Zorafim]

All that matters is that out of five boss fights, I'll be one shotted one and a quarter times, and the rest I'll be fine. I should mention that I used the numbers for iron will instead of flash guard, so that means out of five bosses, I should expect to get one shotted four times. If you insist on using the beginner's logic of probability, yes, it might never trigger. But it might also trigger every time. All I care about is averages. What's better as a whole.
How'd I go about making a full tank build? I had one planned before, but took a break... and now we got the Flash Guard skills.

This (http://ryuhiroshi.funpic.de/pso2/skillcalc.php?03tAbdIkbdIkbdIkbdIkbdIkbdIk9Mjebkb4 Oj4XIn00000ib00000ib00000ib0000kbI2ds000084OdqldI2 IF0000) is what I have right now. Maybe something like this (http://ryuhiroshi.funpic.de/pso2/skillcalc.php?03tAbdIkbdIkbdIkbdIkbdIkbdIk9Mjebkb4 OjmkIsI2fcK00007b00000ib00000ib0000kbIk2XcK000064O dqj2SHXcF0000)? I really have no idea. :V

Mag would probably end up with something like ~60 SDEF to have enough for future updates and the rest put into SATK.

From what I'm seeing, Iron Will is amazing. The build thread (http://www.pso-world.com/forums/showthread.php?t=205010) recommends it over any other defense build. It's rather RNGy in that it has a quarter chance of failing, but when it works, it saves you from death. Those two combined should increase survivability by a huge amount.

I should also point out that pure defense isn't nearly as useful in this game as pure offense. You might see yourself lagging behind in groups because you're not really getting much done. The advantage is that you aren't one shotted as much (which seems to be an issue during boss fights nowadays), and that's an advantage that's getting my attention.

[UnLucky]

I also focus a lot on "the average case" but that is only valid on perfectly fair and true random events.

There are numerous cases where that is simply not how it works in PSO2, and it's not only because of machines being incapable of generating truly random values.

[Gardios]

From what I'm seeing, Iron Will is amazing. The build thread (http://www.pso-world.com/forums/showthread.php?t=205010) recommends it over any other defense build. It's rather RNGy in that it has a quarter chance of failing, but when it works, it saves you from death. Those two combined should increase survivability by a huge amount.

I should also point out that pure defense isn't nearly as useful in this game as pure offense. You might see yourself lagging behind in groups because you're not really getting much done. The advantage is that you aren't one shotted as much (which seems to be an issue during boss fights nowadays), and that's an advantage that's getting my attention.

I'm somewhat reluctant to get Iron Will because RNG god hates me, and would I really need it if I have massive defense? Since I still haven't unlocked Floating Continent yet (lol) I have no idea how high level content looks like and just how powerful bosses are. I was thinking that if enemies focus me (via Warcry, which is supposed to be buffed in the future) and they can't kill me due to high stats+Flash Guard+Deband Cut, that means more DPS—because the squishy DPSers in the party survive longer.

Of course, I have no idea if this would work, but that's why I'm asking for feedback here after all.

[SociableTyrannosaur]

I'd take Iron Will over automate halfline unless you're a WL user who prefers long PAs that can't cancel or spam overend like a fool. Iron Will will save you from a ton of things that auto mate won't, like getting decked for 1/3 of you health and then smacked for another 3/4 without being able to heal. The other issue with Automate is you basically have to stop carrying monos because those will be the first thing Automate uses which can sometimes (more often than some might think) land you still under the half way mark. and once again get you killed before you can heal properly.

So Iron will takes a lot of the randomness out from that end and puts it someplace else. being able to take 800 damage when you only have 600HP is far and away a better alternative. In fact you could go evasion tank with Gunner/Hunter and have both Automate Deadline and Iron Will and really put the RNG to the test.

In any case I would definitely take Iron Will of Automate Halfline for most styles of play.

[Alisha]

the thing that bugs me about automate halfline is that infinity had a similar ability but it was better because there was abilities to boost the effectivness of all mates. plus you had substantially higher hp.

[gigawuts]

All that matters is that out of five boss fights, I'll be one shotted one and a quarter times, and the rest I'll be fine. I should mention that I used the numbers for iron will instead of flash guard, so that means out of five bosses, I should expect to get one shotted four times. If you insist on using the beginner's logic of probability, yes, it might never trigger. But it might also trigger every time. All I care about is averages. What's better as a whole.

Beginner's logic, eh? Okay. You got me. I'm in chapter 1 of my probaborlity textbook. I've actually just been looking up random words in the glossary and using them willy nilly. I must not know anything even close to as much as you do about it.

Have fun with what you've evidently already decided on doing.

[UnLucky]

Five 25%s in a row may be 0.1% likely to occur, but after four failures, that fifth Iron Will proc is still 75%, not 99.9%

And I recently failed a 75%/75% affix and lost both slots, but then made 80 -> 75/75 -> 55/100 twice in a row

[Hansha]

I made a defensive build tree. I would like your opinions for improvement.
http://tinyurl.com/chwctt4

[SociableTyrannosaur]

no one needs that many points in step advance. 3-4 points gets you plenty of I frames. in fact after some practice even 3 points is overkill except that you need it for step attack.

Also unless you like hyper armored attacks that prevent you from healing, I would sooner take iron will. it make not be 100% but it can and often will save you if you take more damage than your HP will allow. Automate can only do so much.

Also I would take out 5 points form each fighter stance as you only get 1% extra damage from each point after 5 and you can kill mobs and minibosses much faster putting points into chase advance which gives you 40% bonus damage to anything with an SE on it regardless of stance and it doesn't need to be activated.

with the remaining points you can max S atk up 2 since you already have 5 points in for chase.

[UnLucky]

I made a defensive build tree. I would like your opinions for improvement.
http://tinyurl.com/chwctt4

Not exactly defensive, but here it is. (http://ryuhiroshi.funpic.de/pso2/skillcalc.php?03gEbdIkbdIkbdIkbdIkbdIkbdIkcK7klBkI qoGXcB4QIscA00000ebHoGBboGaIb2N0000Ib00000ib0000Ib 00000ib00000f)

I believe that nets you the exact same amount of Step invuln, plus Chase Advance. If you really don't want to affix a status effect on your weapon to go for that 140% damage and 20% chance to Bind, then sure go for a tiny bit more S-Atk instead.

[SociableTyrannosaur]

did we find out that step advances are cumulative?

[Zorafim]

I think we finally did, but it won't go over .2 seconds.

[UnLucky]

Zyrusticae seems convinced (www.pso-world.com/forums/showthread.php?t=205175&p=2932910)

I never tested it, though. I could probably do that, I think I have Step Attack on both Hunter and Fighter.

[gigawuts]

The only remotely reliable way I can imagine to test it would be against quartz grants rain and fraps, then checking when you start dying during the dash animation.

[UnLucky]

Yeah, it'd have to be tested against constantly hitting, separate attacks. Maybe Transmizer would be a better choice? I think he would use that bullet hell move more often, and you can dodge out of the Grants regardless of your Step Advance level.

Definitely have to count frames though, since we're talking about a tenth of a second.

[Gardios]

Transformed Tranmizer would probably the easiest way since he has a continuous stream of attacks. The extra invul would probably be noticable even without frame counting, if stacking works. Alternatively, you could dodge into environmental damage (Underground Mines). You should be hit during the latter half of your dodge without stacking, and after your dodge with.

Reposting because I'd still like opinions about this. :<

How'd I go about making a full tank build? I had one planned before, but took a break... and now we got the Flash Guard skills.

This (http://ryuhiroshi.funpic.de/pso2/skillcalc.php?03tAbdIkbdIkbdIkbdIkbdIkbdIk9Mjebkb4 Oj4XIn00000ib00000ib00000ib0000kbI2ds000084OdqldI2 IF0000) is what I have right now. Maybe something like this (http://ryuhiroshi.funpic.de/pso2/skillcalc.php?03tAbdIkbdIkbdIkbdIkbdIkbdIk9Mjebkb4 OjmkIsI2fcK00007b00000ib00000ib0000kbIk2XcK000064O dqj2SHXcF0000)? I really have no idea. :V

Mag would probably end up with something like ~60 SDEF to have enough for future updates and the rest put into SATK.


I'm somewhat reluctant to get Iron Will because RNG god hates me, and would I really need it if I have massive defense? Since I still haven't unlocked Floating Continent yet (lol) I have no idea how high level content looks like and just how powerful bosses are. I was thinking that if enemies focus me (via Warcry, which is supposed to be buffed in the future) and they can't kill me due to high stats+Flash Guard+Deband Cut, that means more DPS—because the squishy DPSers in the party survive longer.

Of course, I have no idea if this would work, but that's why I'm asking for feedback here after all.

[Hansha]

Not exactly defensive, but here it is. (http://ryuhiroshi.funpic.de/pso2/skillcalc.php?03gEbdIkbdIkbdIkbdIkbdIkbdIkcK7klBkI qoGXcB4QIscA00000ebHoGBboGaIb2N0000Ib00000ib0000Ib 00000ib00000f)

I believe that nets you the exact same amount of Step invuln, plus Chase Advance. If you really don't want to affix a status effect on your weapon to go for that 140% damage and 20% chance to Bind, then sure go for a tiny bit more S-Atk instead.

Nice, quite a bit of improvement if what I'm reading about Step is true. I opted to remove Dagger Gear and Chase Bind in order to max Wise stance as I see that of greater importance now. Thanks a lot.

The main reason I called it defensive is because of how powerful step and automate halfline are when maxed together. Having Just Guard, Step, and Automate makes this class feel invincible unless I somehow get hit by like four attacks at once or get one shot by a Flower lvl 60 rare boss using its strongest attack. Maxed Step is mainly for Double Saber situations, but three is way more than enough even for that. However, framerate issues and human error led me to maxing it. Using pure Dimates and Trimates is pretty easy because I hardly ever use 10 healing items in a single mission already.

I am against Iron Will is mainly that it isn't 100% and there are very few amount of things in the game that can OHKO or THKO a Hunter or Fighter even with Fury Stance. If I were to choose between Iron Will and Automate, I would choose Automate for the consistency and the fact that it can improve your offense at the same time. For example, not worrying about what could hit you during an Overend and the lack of downtime from needing to heal.

If I went for both skills and flash guard, I might as well just call myself a useless meatshield until warcry is buffed.

[Link1275]

How does my Hunter tree weigh in? I've been heavily wondering on Automate or Iron Will(HUnewm, so I will have a chance to get OHKO'ed by just about anything). http://ryuhiroshi.funpic.de/pso2/skillcalc.php?03gCbdIkbdIkbdIkbdIkbdIkbdIkcg7OlbkI qBGXcB5dInik00008ebrbGBboGFIbaN0000IbJdGFfGFcA0000 ibeDI2cFJIcD000kbcK2XcK000064OdqldI2J20000

[UnLucky]

Reposting because I'd still like opinions about this. :<

Well, I don't like it, but here's something similar I whipped up earlier:

I was trying to build something sensible by taking one point in Flash Guard 2, but that's only 10% instead of 30% so there goes that idea.

But regardless, I had my fun making this Dice Roll Tank Build (http://ryuhiroshi.ry.funpic.de/pso2/skillcalc.html?03tBbdIkbdIkbdIkbdIkbdIkbdIk0lbkI4O j5dIsIsIkJ200007b00000ib00000ib0000Ib00000fkb62SI2 cK0000)

All damage reduced by 15%
All strike/ranged damage further reduced by 20%
54% chance to reduce tech damage by 30%
54% chance to further reduce strike/ranged damage by an additional 20% (for 36% reduction, not including Deband Cut, which I believe would then become ~45% total reduction)
20% chance to automatically heal (consumes a 'mate) when an attack leaves you below 50% HP
75% chance to survive with 1HP when receiving a killing blow (0% when at 1HP already)

Does Light Mastery improve Resta's healing? Regardless, this is a seriously underpowered build since you have nothing offensive in it at all.

You'd be better off with a Hunter build like this (http://ryuhiroshi.ry.funpic.de/pso2/skillcalc.html?03IbbdIkbdIkbdIkbdIkbdIkbdIk0jebkbq oqKcB5dInik00009b00000ib00000ib0000Ib00000ib00000f ) since you lose practically nothing offensively, but still get enough defense where it counts. Or switch Iron Will for Automate if you think you'd prefer that.
You should really be actively dodging and guarding, which requires very few points and provides much better damage mitigation than "tank" abilities. And you also don't cut your damage in half to get them.

[gigawuts]

How does my Hunter tree weigh in? I've been heavily wondering on Automate or Iron Will(HUnewm, so I will have a chance to get OHKO'ed by just about anything). http://ryuhiroshi.funpic.de/pso2/skillcalc.php?03gCbdIkbdIkbdIkbdIkbdIkbdIkcg7OlbkI qBGXcB5dInik00008ebrbGBboGFIbaN0000IbJdGFfGFcA0000 ibeDI2cFJIcD000kbcK2XcK000064OdqldI2J20000

That's the exact tree I'm going to make when they hand out resets, to combo with my fighter, assuming there's no major changes to the usefulness of fury stance ups.

Needless to say, I approve.

If fury stance ups become useful after the rework that tree would change for me, but until that happens go for it dude.

[God of Awesome]

I actually had a stab at a Tank build (http://ryuhiroshi.funpic.de/pso2/skillcalc.php?03tAbdIkbdIkbdIkbdIkbdIkbdIk0lbkI4Oj 4QItcFfJk00007b00000ib00000ib0000Ib00000fkb62TI2cK n2cA0006) and it's pretty similar to Unluckys build, but I invested in Auto-half over iron will because I figured with all the DEF stats my HP will drop rather slowly, thus reducing the likely hood of getting OHKO and if my HP does drop, Auto will put it back up again, and like I've mentioned, with all that DEF my HP should drop slowly. Just an idea.

I rather like tanking, feel like a proper grizzled warrior rather than some flimsy pansy dodging about like a coward, but I know for this game and with the low HP of enemies it's just faster to rush through them. You could also see it as being smart, trying to avoid being hit and such. I just want to be a proper and useful tank ;_;

[ShinMaruku]

With that bloody tree reset coming I have designed this:
http://ryuhiroshi.funpic.de/pso2/skillcalc.php?03gDbdIkbdIkbdIkbdIkbdIkbdIkcK7klbkI qBGXcB4QItcA00000ebrbGBboGFIbFN0000Ib00000ib0000Ib 00000ib00000f
Good? Bad? Help me out here.

[God of Awesome]

With that bloody tree reset coming I have designed this:
http://ryuhiroshi.funpic.de/pso2/skillcalc.php?03gDbdIkbdIkbdIkbdIkbdIkbdIkcK7klbkI qBGXcB4QItcA00000ebrbGBboGFIbFN0000Ib00000ib0000Ib 00000ib00000f
Good? Bad? Help me out here.

Considering it's nearly identical to what I'm going for; I have to say I like it!

[gigawuts]

That tree would be good for WL users who frequently use attacks that completely lock them in for the full duration.

I wouldn't really advise it for any other kinds of builds, though, since halfline is pretty awful unless you don't carry monomates.

[Link1275]

That's the exact tree I'm going to make when they hand out resets, to combo with my fighter, assuming there's no major changes to the usefulness of fury stance ups.

Needless to say, I approve.

If fury stance ups become useful after the rework that tree would change for me, but until that happens go for it dude.

Ok, Thanks. Good to know I can get at least one skill tree right on paper(my first char had a mess of a force tree...).

[ShinMaruku]

That tree would be good for WL users who frequently use attacks that completely lock them in for the full duration.

I wouldn't really advise it for any other kinds of builds, though, since halfline is pretty awful unless you don't carry monomates.
Well that is a hyper armour using build so I have it as such. Not much of a fan of defense in this game. :P

[Eternal255]

sorry to ask something thats prob been asked a million times-

iron will any good?

ultimately gonna be Fighter/Hunter, looking at 10 points in iron will.

Can it proc multiple times or does it have a cooldown?

[SociableTyrannosaur]

It can proc multiple times as long as your hp is over 1. so you have to get healed inbetween hits, thats it.

[gigawuts]

Yup. While I've had 5 failures in a row, I've also had 12 successes in a row. I was goddamn immortal that day.

I agree it's not necessarily good for worst case scenarios, it's more for an overall gameplay thing. It's there for when you have friends around to revive you, so you don't have to distinguish between 50% hp and 5% hp against something that can kill you in 2 hits. It's still equal odds to survive.

[Eternal255]

well im going from fighter/techer to fighter/hunter, i think it would be a good 'failsafe' considering the gameplay style switch involved in making such a transition (not having insta-heals)

thanks for the info, def pickin it up

[UnLucky]

Yeah, just get HP Restore A/B/J/K on your mag and top up your health with 'mates, but avoid overhealing. Should be fine.

[ShinMaruku]

That does hold that function but I don't like the rely on RNG. But it is valid.

[Ririko]

I reckon this might be the best place to ask instead of creating yet another topic, Anyway, I started playing when the Vita version came out and picked Force, was having a good time but as an old-time PSO player, I ended up finding the Force gameplay somewhat... repetitive, I guess that'd be the word for it. It's not bad, but given how you're very restricted to using Techs I feel like sometimes I'd like to do a bit more, lol.

Thus! I've tried out the Hunter and at first glance it seems like a fun class, even if not as strong as Force. However, upon doing so I've developed a liking for the Sword weapon and I was wondering whether it's a good one or if there are any major cons to it? Similarily, when the time comes for subclass'ing, is Fighter the best option or are there other builds that could potentially work? As for the MAGs, Pure Strike's the way to go? hah.

Alas, I guess that's pretty much it for now, lol. Basically, if anyone could describe a bit their experiences with Hunters related to what I said up there, that'd be the ideal help I need. Thanks in advance :3

[gigawuts]

All weapons are pretty good at what they do. Most full time hunters live on sword, but partisan and WL are definitely good times too.

[Hrith]

I'd say any player limiting themselves to one weapon type and one or two PAs are just terrible players. There are already too many, do not let yourself become one more.

[Ririko]

I'd say any player limiting themselves to one weapon type and one or two PAs are just terrible players. There are already too many, do not let yourself become one more.

Oh, sure, I don't mean to use only one weapon type. That was actually one of my small pet peeve with the Force branch, how Rod was generally just way too awesome and Talises felt situational at best, the rest was just up to the Techs, haha.

When I touched the Sword issue was more according to the Skill Tree, because I imagined people end up favoring one type over the other in this regard? Like how with Force Fire and Thunder Trees are developed, whereas the others... not so much.

[gigawuts]

When it comes to melee, you generally want to get all gears. Melee weapons are less comparable to rod and talis, and more comparable to individual tech elements.

"Specializing" in a weapon is as easy as getting the gear and a good weapon - sometimes not even that is necessary depending on what you want the weapon for (If you just want grabs then WL doesn't need the gear, but that's just 1 SP so it's worth it anyway really).

If you're making a specialist build then yeah, don't get all gears. If you're using just one tree, though, always go for all the gears. A lot of people felt sword was too costly back when we had 30 SP, but even then it was pretty amazing and worth the investment. Now that we have 65 SP...there's no question, get it for sure.

Each weapon is good at a few things, as in better than the other weapons at those things. There is a LOT of crossover, however, and because of that very rarely is a weapon actually bad at something. It just might be outperformed by something else.

As long as you can get a lambda aristin, lambda hyperion, and lambda patty lumeria or better you're looking at a great set of equips that don't cost an excessive amount of money, and can be used as fi/hu should you decide that you want a strong double saber too.

[Alisha]

I'd say any player limiting themselves to one weapon type and one or two PAs are just terrible players. There are already too many, do not let yourself become one more.

gonna have to disagree with that one.

[ShinMaruku]

I'd say any player limiting themselves to one weapon type and one or two PAs are just terrible players. There are already too many, do not let yourself become one more.

Some weapons are just that good that holding one type can work out.

[Syklo]

I'd say any player limiting themselves to one weapon type and one or two PAs are just terrible players. There are already too many, do not let yourself become one more.
Gonna have to agree on this one......sort of.

[gigawuts]

Is there even anyone who limits themselves to one weapon type or 1-2 PA's?

Like, at all?

Even the worst players use more than over end and sonic arrow. They use speed rain, too.

[Ririko]

Seems like my question opened up Pandora's Box, haha. ^^;

Anyway, thanks for the input so far. Last but definitely not least, how does something like this look?

http://ryuhiroshi.funpic.de/pso2/skillcalc.php?03fbdIkbdIkbdIkbdIkbdIkbdIk0jebkIqBG XcBuQInie00009b00000ib00000ib0000Ib00000ib00000f

I was checking for stuff that seemed useful to increase damage, because I'm not too much of a defensive type player. Fury S Up seems to add actual stats instead of %, so I guess it'd be okay to skip it? A friend told me they MIGHT change in the future, though?

[gigawuts]

They're DEFINITELY being changed in the near future, as in next couple weeks or so. So yeah, most optimally designed trees right now will be subject to change.

For now, JA bonus 1 & 2 are good ways to go, and iron will is good for saving your skin if you're a glass cannon that can get 2-3 shotted. It means having 2 HP and 250 HP will give you the exact same chance of survival if a following attack will deal 300 damage. It's very nice for fi/hu high PP build, but not quite as beneficial for a hu/fi which is able to be much tankier due to the differences in weapons.

[Hrith]

Is there even anyone who limits themselves to one weapon type or 1-2 PA's?

Like, at all?

Even the worst players use more than over end and sonic arrow. They use speed rain, too.I have played with people using nothing but Sonic Arrow/Over End or nothing but Elder Rebellion, nothing but Deadly Archer or nothing but Zondeel/Zonde... I have even seen people use nothing but Over End with an offensive build/gear (I gave up reviving them).

Not mentioning casting weapons for obvious reasons, I can agree that some weapon types, such as double sabers, swords, partisans, wired lances or twin machineguns (that's actually a lot, lol) can work well without anything else, but not in every situation, and you're still gimping yourself, and even then you'd probably using 4~6 different PAs, not 1~2.

So yeah, there are such people, too many of them, or I'm unlucky in my random encounters.

[Syklo]

There was a time when I accidentally sold all my weapons near the start (wasn't paying attention to what i was choosing to sell and pressed enter twice cuz i thought i could send a quick reply but didn't realise enter triggered the sale.......should've locked them).

Good thing they weren't rares.
Going barehanded ftw!

[UnLucky]

Uh, well I'll use Zonde/Zondeel/Sazonde exclusively for some areas. And Foie/Rafoie/Safoie/Gifoie almost exclusively for others.

You know, cause otherwise I won't do the most damage to the enemies in that area. You know?

[gigawuts]

I have played with people using nothing but Sonic Arrow/Over End or nothing but Elder Rebellion, nothing but Deadly Archer or nothing but Zondeel/Zonde... I have even seen people use nothing but Over End with an offensive build/gear (I gave up reviving them).

Not mentioning casting weapons for obvious reasons, I can agree that some weapon types, such as double sabers, swords, partisans, wired lances or twin machineguns (that's actually a lot, lol) can work well without anything else, but not in every situation, and you're still gimping yourself, and even then you'd probably using 4~6 different PAs, not 1~2.

So yeah, there are such people, too many of them, or I'm unlucky in my random encounters.

Ah, I think that'd be the problem. I basically never roll with randoms, or care what randoms do when I'm in an EMQ. I don't really MPA much. If I'm in a game, it's with 0-3 people on my friends list or in my team (in the case of the latter they're usually also on my friends list).

Also, I think the issue is less the usefulness of the cookie cutter attacks, and the usefulness of the other attacks. While I'll say wired lances have probably the best balanced PA selection in the game, other weapons are just...really really lacking. With just six weapon palettes, and the combo nature of melee weapons, a PA needs to do like 2-3 different things to be good. For something like tornado dance it's good because it closes distance, deals nice damage, hits multiple times, and has a decent AOE for a double saber move. Compare it to rumbling moon and you can see a real discrepancy - TD offers more utility than RM. RM would have to be exceptionally better with either its AOE or its damage, since aside from that it's the same except it lacks the distance closing.

And, really, while I say repeatedly this game lacks "utility vs. damage" balancing for weapons, that's the only place it's lacking. Skill trees and PA's still have that dynamic going on. Some moves are great for their damage, but others are good for not their damage but instead the other things they do.

[Alisha]

mind blown

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=idbmBQYWY2A

[ShinMaruku]

Keep in mind that the gunner is there but yes if a gunner has the right build and gear they can be boss killers.

[Babbit55]

I am currently rolling a Hu/Te FeNewman and loving it, using wired lances and with almost maxed out all the fury stance skills with the lance gear my attacks can do some monstrous damage (lvl 33/19 atm) I think my max has been around 1k "Ticks" of holding current/ other spin and a slam from Heavenly fall of around 12k I have to say Fury stance is well worth getting!

[gigawuts]

Oh I forgot to say, I checked the skill progression of flash guard I and II. They are indeed different.

Fury Stance is worth getting because there's nothing better to get. Imagine force without masteries. Photon flare would be "worth" getting there too.

[SociableTyrannosaur]

I am currently rolling a Hu/Te FeNewman and loving it, using wired lances and with almost maxed out all the fury stance skills with the lance gear my attacks can do some monstrous damage (lvl 33/19 atm) I think my max has been around 1k "Ticks" of holding current/ other spin and a slam from Heavenly fall of around 12k I have to say Fury stance is well worth getting!

Compare those numbers to a Hu/Fi. you give up techs, but your damage becomes completely absurd.

[UnLucky]

Oh I forgot to say, I checked the skill progression of flash guard I and II. They are indeed different.

Fury Stance is worth getting because there's nothing better to get. Imagine force without masteries. Photon flare would be "worth" getting there too.
Still not worth getting without Masteries. And without Tech Advances, Force wouldn't be worth using.

I know it was said in passing and has nothing to do with Hunter, but I'll run with this. Imagine if Force's skill tree looked like this:
[SPOILER-BOX]http://imageshack.us/a/img405/5056/fakeforce.png[/SPOILER-BOX]
That's 65 points spent. Photon Flare's penalty increases with each point invested, and PF Advance gives the same 20 T-Atk per point for 30s every 2m. It is bad and not worth getting. 10 SP in PFA is 50 T-Atk on average, so if you just put 10 SP into T-Atk up you would have 50 T-Atk all the time and can use it for equipment requirements. Or if we count just 7 points to top off T-Atk Up 1, that's 40 base T-Atk vs 35 average from PF, with an HP penalty on top of it.

Fury Stance is worth getting because you have to have at least five points in it to get JA Advance 2 which is totally worth getting. Fury Stance is worth putting more points into because you may as well use it anyway and it lowers the Def penalty as well as giving twice as much Atk as FS Up per point.

[gigawuts]

Still not worth getting without Masteries. And without Tech Advances, Force wouldn't be worth using.

I know it was said in passing and has nothing to do with Hunter, but I'll run with this. Imagine if Force's skill tree looked like this:
[SPOILER-BOX]http://imageshack.us/a/img405/5056/fakeforce.png[/SPOILER-BOX]
That's 65 points spent. Photon Flare's penalty increases with each point invested, and PF Advance gives the same 20 T-Atk per point for 30s every 2m. It is bad and not worth getting. 10 SP in PFA is 50 T-Atk on average, so if you just put 10 SP into T-Atk up you would have 50 T-Atk all the time and can use it for equipment requirements. Or if we count just 7 points to top off T-Atk Up 1, that's 40 base T-Atk vs 35 average from PF, with an HP penalty on top of it.

Fury Stance is worth getting because you have to have at least five points in it to get JA Advance 2 which is totally worth getting. Fury Stance is worth putting more points into because you may as well use it anyway and it lowers the Def penalty as well as giving twice as much Atk as FS Up per point.

The point I was making was static point gains are fucking terrible and in any situation a 20%+ multiplier is way goddamn better.

Being a prerequisite SP sink doesn't make it any good, it just makes it the least awful thing you've got after taking something better.

[UnLucky]

And my point was that Photon Flare is bad and even a different static gain is better, with any other proportional gain being better still.

Though this isn't the place for it, I don't disagree with what you're saying so I've got nothin else to argue :-?

[Lostbob117]

So tanky, bruiser Hunter build: http://pso2-skill.pwnedgalaxy.net/skillcalc.php?08fbsIkbsIkbsIkbsIkbsIkbsIkbsIkbsIk0 jdodBIbI2i2dniNfqn3KJkqnI2000000doIn0000008doib000 0006do000000lo00000007oIn0000000lbIo000000fdoIb000 000f

Get the level 3 Step in whatever you sub.

[Hexxy]

Has anyone else tried using a grinded Gae Bolg with multi-hit partisan pa's? I left mine with its base affixes (it comes with Freeze IV and some satk ups and other crap). Out of curiosity I took it to +40 and have been going around with it spamming speed rain on everything.

Holy crap you can chain-proc freeze so easily. That 14% potential seems to be just a flat increase.

[Hrith]

Yeah, my Gae Bolg has Diamond Dust Lv3, and it works so much, it's actually good even with Chase Advance.