Guard Stance Up for Hunters

[GoldenFalcon]

Does anyone know the bonuses on the Guard Stance Up ability on the Hunter tree? I was looking it over, and it seems like it could be useful for a sword build that gets Guard Stance to 10

[Wayu]

You sacrifice offensive power for defense. At higher levels you lose less offensive power and gain more defense.

-Wayu

[GoldenFalcon]

You sacrifice offensive power for defense. At higher levels you lose less offensive power and gain more defense.

-Wayu

I apologize if I was unclear, but I meant the ability that's next to sword gear. I'm hoping there is someone that got it to 5/10 or something to let us know if it's worth it

[Wayu]

Yeah, that's a Guard Stance Boost skill. I don't use it myself and haven't taken a look at it but I assume it boosts the effectiveness of Guard Stance.

-Wayu

[Angelo]

Its useful if your dodge and block buttons don't work.

And bosses. At higher ranks it also makes you immune to certain status ailments.

[GoldenFalcon]

And bosses. At higher ranks it also makes you immune to certain status ailments.

Guard Stance itself, or Guard Stance Up?

[Geistritter]

And bosses. At higher ranks it also makes you immune to certain status ailments.

The best kind of boss is a dead boss, not one you take less damage from.

Guard Stance isn't any more useful against them than anything else; they telegraph their attacks the most, and Hunters have the best reaction skills among classes. Anything related to Guard Stance is a waste of time when the effort could be spent on offense, especially now that you can grind your armor, enhance its attributes, and add things like additional HP onto them, if you're really that worried the giant crab might give you a boo-boo.

[TheKin]

The best kind of boss is a dead boss, not one you take less damage from.

Guard Stance isn't any more useful against them than anything else; they telegraph their attacks the most, and Hunters have the best reaction skills among classes. Anything related to Guard Stance is a waste of time when the effort could be spent on offense, especially now that you can grind your armor, enhance its attributes, and add things like additional HP onto them, if you're really that worried the giant crab might give you a boo-boo.

The Kin is not trying to sound elitest or mean when he says this, but hopefully this doesn't become the norm. It'd be nice to see defense have a place in a game instead of the best defense being a better offense. Hopefully some bosses have some crazy fast attacks or super high stats so that an offense character gets thrashed if they miss a beat (Glass cannon anyone?) as it should be and a defensive character can take em down slow and steady. Too many games fall into the trap of nothing beating a massive offense.

[Geistritter]

The Kin is not trying to sound elitest or mean when he says this,

May help to drop the silly speech gimmick, then.


but hopefully this doesn't become the norm. It'd be nice to see defense have a place in a game instead of the best defense being a better offense. Hopefully some bosses have some crazy fast attacks or super high stats so that an offense character gets thrashed if they miss a beat (Glass cannon anyone?) as it should be and a defensive character can take em down slow and steady. Too many games fall into the trap of nothing beating a massive offense.

That eliminates a good portion of what sets this series apart from games like, say, World of Warcraft: the player's own ability to maneuver factors into whether they take damage. Forcing people to get hit just makes everyone but Hunters with as much Defense as possible get unnecessarily punished, and that's just lousy game design.

And again, nothing's stopping you from raising your defense in ways other than wasting your skill points; there's more than enough customization on the gear side of things for people concerned with their ability to dodge attacks. Bet most of the people who think they need a defensive build don't know you can do it, though, or simply don't bother, but that's not the game's fault.

[Wayu]

that an offense character gets thrashed if they miss a beat (Glass cannon anyone?)

It's called Fury Stance.

-Wayu

[Angelo]

The best kind of boss is a dead boss, not one you take less damage from.

Guard Stance isn't any more useful against them than anything else; they telegraph their attacks the most, and Hunters have the best reaction skills among classes. Anything related to Guard Stance is a waste of time when the effort could be spent on offense, especially now that you can grind your armor, enhance its attributes, and add things like additional HP onto them, if you're really that worried the giant crab might give you a boo-boo.

Some people like to play Defense-based characters. There is also a reason why Warcry is part of that path. The more point you put into Warcry the greater the range and the more hate it generates. If you're pulling in a group of 5 or 6 enemies it doesn't matter how well you can read their tells, something is going to hit you during the vulnerable frames.

Also, if we've learned anything from previous Phantasy Star games there are bosses that have attacks that are completely unavoidable and Grants-like. When that time comes, maybe someone with Guard Stance will be nice enough to toss you a moon ;).

The game is giving options, and while I understand that Hunters generally tend to be more solo-oriented, and, for lack of a better word, selfish, they conventionally except the support classes to give them a hand when things get ugly. I'd like to think of things like Guard Stance, and Warcry as a way to finally say 'thanks' to all the Forces who had to carry the weight of the team in the past.

Options are good, nothing is keeping you from investing points in the Fury tree, just please back off of chastising the way I like to play and save your condescending remarks for block 20.; you'll fit right in.

[Geistritter]

I won't be playing with you, or anyone else on this site anyway, so don't get too self-righteous over there; I won't be your problem to begin with. Some people believe a better contribution is to make it dead. If you don't agree, that'll be your problem if you get jealous of the people that did. Being knocked out by an instant kill is a temporary setback; dealing less damage overall because you felt like spiting someone else is going to follow you as long as you do it.

[Angelo]

I won't be playing with you, or anyone else on this site anyway, so don't get too self-righteous over there; I won't be your problem to begin with. Some people believe a better contribution is to make it dead. If you don't agree, that'll be your problem if you get jealous of the people that did. Being knocked out by an instant kill is a temporary setback; dealing less damage overall because you felt like spiting someone else is going to follow you as long as you do it.

Well when your team wipes and loses their S rank to Falz, send me a whisper, chief.

[Geistritter]

Yes, the survival of my entire team is based on my decisions in regards to how much defense I require on a class I won't even be playing primarily. That makes sense.

Wait, no, that's absurd. That would be absurd even if I were primarily Hunter.

That said, would you like to send me a whisper every time Guard Stance doesn't do anything against technique damage? You know, what the most common killers in the series have been? Or me you when my team slaps the game around despite your reservations about my character choices? I thought not. We're better off not interacting from here, then, "chief".

[Angelo]

Or me you when my team slaps the game around despite your reservations about my character choices?

Way to spin it. I stated that I enjoy seeing character diversity.

Also, IIRC the Defense skill branch grants Tech Defense bonuses.

[soulpimpwizzurd]

Way to spin it. I stated that I enjoy seeing character diversity.

Also, IIRC the Defense skill branch grants Tech Defense bonuses.

defense skill branch? where does the tech def come from? i know guard stance only effects physical def. looking thru the JP wiki i see nothing that talks about tech defense as well.

also just reading all the skill descriptions, nothing says anything about tech def. are you sure man

[GoldenFalcon]

I would like this thread to be only about Guard Stance Up

[Angelo]

defense skill branch? where does the tech def come from? i know guard stance only effects physical def. looking thru the JP wiki i see nothing that talks about tech defense as well.

also just reading all the skill descriptions, nothing says anything about tech def. are you sure man

Not from the skill itself, but the right-side of the tree is more 'defense' oriented and guard stance is a requirement for フラッシュテックガード FlashTechGuard: Tech Damage is reduced

[Macman]

Man, the egos in this topic. Where's my popcorn?

[soulpimpwizzurd]

Not from the skill itself, but the right-side of the tree is more 'defense' oriented and guard stance is a requirement for フラッシュテックガード FlashTechGuard: Tech Damage is reduced

what

what are you talking about? i don't see flash tech guard anywhere. are you sure? can you take a screen shot of it and upload it to tinypic? i'm interested in this but i can't even see it.

indeed the right side of the skill tree is more def oriented but yeah man i don't see anything related to tech defense, please take a screenshot of what you're talking about and circle the portion you're pointing out or something. if i've been missing out on half my skill tree because i haven't noticed something very obvious imma be sad

edit:

ohhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh you're talking about the alpha tree. the open beta tree is completely different and we don't even know if that will be added. i REALLY hope it does get added though. attack pp restoration seems awesome.

[Doremian]

Doremian. Ship 9. Ranger.

I used to play in party with couple of people and if ignore overall lack of team play i can tell something about it. As i can see defense stance is based on high protection character for face-to-face battle with group of the enemies. While rage spears use AoE attack to protect from potential danger and dodge to prevent damage, defenders based on Tanking strategy, for party play. As ranger i see sometimes difficulties with number of enemies, when you need to take some distance. In party with high defensive hunter it would be much more easier. Besides hunter with high defense have more potential on long runs.

I don't know about stats on this skill branch, but i am sure that it worth a try.

P.s. - If it work same as for other classes, Up skill should give additional defense. Probably it's only thing what it does, but seems that overall defense should be god damn high, because it takes a lot of SP, to master it, even thought it's 1 branch.

[Macman]

I can see a defensive hunter with a good warcry being key to speedruns. He can pull all the monsters in tight while the rangers and forces nuke them to oblivion with launchers and techs.

However the ability to bypass 90% of monsters in any area renders that a moot point.

[Angelo]

I can see a defensive hunter with a good warcry being key to speedruns. He can pull all the monsters in tight while the rangers and forces nuke them to oblivion with launchers and techs.

However the ability to bypass 90% of monsters in any area renders that a moot point.

Warcry also works on bosses. Just food for thought.

[Doremian]

Distracting bosses is key for party play. Today i had luck to fight Spider Boss in the forest free area twice (they came 1 by 1). There was some kids running around (Hunter and Force) but from what i saw, they survived only because Bosses were rushing on me. For me there is no difference between my position, i can shoot through with rifle, so my overall damage was high helped me nicely with back attacks. It looked like boss didn't even bothered about them. I would be really greatfull if i was on their position, not mine.

Tankers have high price in praty play, if i wasn't so sad about weapon choise for them (Come on! I want guardians wear a spear, not a hugeass sword!), i would be a defensive Hunter. (+ i'm playing with friends and we have pently of hunters already)

P.s. - I might still try it in future.

[thablinksta]

The best kind of boss is a dead boss, not one you take less damage from.

Guard Stance isn't any more useful against them than anything else; they telegraph their attacks the most, and Hunters have the best reaction skills among classes. Anything related to Guard Stance is a waste of time when the effort could be spent on offense, especially now that you can grind your armor, enhance its attributes, and add things like additional HP onto them, if you're really that worried the giant crab might give you a boo-boo.

I think its a big assumption to assume that all bosses and enemies will telegraph their attacks. I'm personally going to put a couple of points into guard stance so that I can boost my defense against OP bosses that might have fast attacks, full screen attacks, or homing attacks.

[Reyva]

Eh, I guess I'm like 1 out of the 5 people (exaggeration folks) who love playing as a tank and I am glad that PSO2 added this finally after I complained in PSU that there was no way to be a tank since you couldn't grab the monsters attention.

Lets face the facts, most people don't like being a tank in games. Most prefer the damage dealing route. I dunno, I guess its just a person's style of play or even their own personality. I just like taking the hits for other people in games lol. Is that so wrong lol? Instead of dodging, I like to get hit so I can still keep doing my PAs. So to me, dodging is for pansies and ofcourse by saying such a statement, all the little fanboys and girls get all anal about it. Its just my playstyle.

So, I'm a level 30 hunter who is focused on defense mostly (yet has a ability mag) and I love it. With Guard Stance, my units, and so on, most of those mini bosses or bosses and regular monsters normally hit me between 1-50 damage.

At the same time however, unlike other games where if you played the tank role, your damage was sacrificed greatly, I feel that is a bit different here in PSO2. While I provide a "Iron clad wall," I also provide a pretty good offense so I can solo almost anything very easily and just as fast as anyone else. Its not like I do horrible damage, but at the same time, take a pure offensive hunter who knows what they are doing and they indeed do a lot better damage.

At the same time though, if you want to be a tank in PSO2, we're missing two things. R-DEF and T-DEF (Ranged and tech defense). Whenever a boss does a attack that involves tech or ranged power, my "Iron clad wall" becomes the "Glass Cannon Wall." Jesus Christ, no matter how much HP I had, that level 30+ spider in the desert tore me to pieces when I couldn't dodge that attack.

Units focused on R-DEF and T-DEF is helpful, but tbh, not really. I also guess elemental resistances help too, but eh..........its going to be annoying to try and carry around gear for all elements while having the stats you want + them being at +10.

However, it seems to me also that a lot of people on these forums like to conclude that either PSO2's endgame is already determined or we are already at PSO2's endgame. Maybe its because you haven't been exposed to many mmos in general, but crap changes and / or is updated. Can you really say that the entire game won't have such bosses where a tank is needed? Hahaha, very amusing.

And those who are really anti-tank, just know we save all your little slimy butts when you die. Oh the whole party died except the tank? Good thing because if the tank died, then game over. But no, we can run over to you, revive ya, and get hit in the process lol. Then the party continues and we can hopefully take down the sob of a boss lol.

However, some games make it known you need a tank at the start of the game. In PSO2's case, right now, that is not the case and what will happen is that people will believe being a tank is useless and everyone and their mom should be offensive only.

However, whenever that one magic update comes where all of a sudden, you wish you changed your build to be more defensive, you're regret what you said. You'll start to say "We need a tank for the party! We have DPS already" like all the other players in games do. And due to that, great tanks will be in short supply as that is how it usually is.

Typically, starting out however, ofcourse the game is going to be easy and monsters won't be as hard or aggressive which makes you believe you should only be offensive.

So in conclusion, if you don't take anything else I said in consideration, just know, that there is going to be a time where you're going to want a tank in your party. Not only for "insurance" but for you to be able to have a efficient party. Nothing makes people happier when the rest of the party is not taking any damage, can focus on what they do best, and the tank is taking very small damage themselves while keeping hate from the monsters along with providing good damage.

[Lostbob117]

http://p2o.wikkii.net/wiki/Hunter_Skill_Tree
This might useful also.

[Doremian]

I think i found it.
According to japanese wiki information it grant higher bonus than basic defense Up skill, and work durning Stance only.
Def up start with 3 and end with 50 defense, while Stance up start with 5. I think overall bonus should be 80~90 defense (maybe 100).
In my opinion it's good for endgame skill only. First of all tank should focus on leveling up Stance, to decrease penalty and get higher bonus, then he can go full War Cry or go for Stance up, in case what he needs more.
War Cry seems to be good skill to train at both Party or Solo play, since monsters always easier to kill if they are following you all together, while defense can be sacrificed, if your avoiding skills are good enough.

Also putting Counter on discussion. I saw person guarding Spiders at forest area. While he been taking pretty high damage (10~30) once i saw him defending with a perfect timing and absorb whole damage and even reflect a part of it.
Seems like skill have great potential, if mix it with high defense.

[GoldenFalcon]

Def up start with 3 and end with 50 defense, while Stance up start with 5. I think overall bonus should be 80~90 defense (maybe 100).

Is that only for striking defense?

[Doremian]

Pretty much yes.

[GoldenFalcon]

Well, if Guard Stance Up only amplifies striking defense, I'd much rather choose the S-Def Up to make it easier to equip the armors that require like 400 S-Def

Thanks

[soulpimpwizzurd]

probably my main counter argument against tanks in this game is the fact that atm, there is no penalty for dying and returning to campship, and going back into the boss room. as long as there is one human player surviving in the boss room, you can continue the battle.

tanks would be much more valuable if there was a penalty for dying, or you couldn't return to the battle after you went back to the campship. however that is not the case. the only "penalty" so to speak of is a ~20 second down time where you have to load back to campship load back to boss area and go through the warp.

the lack of death penalty encourages players to pursue maximum damage with less regard towards their defense.

however like others are saying, depending on the circumstances, i suppose it -could- make runs go faster, instead of bosses going wild everywhere, i can see them being focused on a single target as being good.

but have any of you taken a gander at the newest sabre tooth tiger boss that is supposed to come out? his lunging swipe attack has huge range and he moves everywhere. i have a feeling getting the aggro of that boss won't matter because of how wildly he moves, as he will undoubtedly strike others due to his insane range and random movement.