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soulpimpwizzurd
Jul 4, 2012, 02:05 AM
okay so i studied mag item creation A in a desperate attempt to see if I could make it a replacement for hp heal J. haha.

please note: i forgot to mention that basically all mag trigger actions don't work unless the mag has at least some %'age of fullness. so make sure to feed your mag once.

the only mag trigger action i believe activates with no hunger, is photon blast invincibility. also, from my testing, level of % fullness does not effect frequency/strength of any effect caused by trigger actions. trigger actions behave the same at say, 5%, and at 80%. there is no notable difference from what i can tell.

my personal opinion btw, is if meseta is no worry to you, a mag that has all HP HEAL A (panic heal) is going to be for the most part, the most helpful. it has a lower cool down than hp heal J and item creation A, and activates more often, and is a more useful trigger action (saves your life basically.) however for people looking to save as much meseta as possible, and can't telepipe whenever they want heals/want to save monomates+dimates, absolutely get item creation A and HP heal J.

i have two mags. one is my "boss fight/lots of things going on" mag. it has 4 panic heals and invincibility photon blast. it also is messed up because it has too much ability (lvl 32). it's the reason why i have two mags lol. it works pretty well. honestly? i don't think invincibility from photon blast is that worth it. not yet. it may later on, so i'll save it. but for now, almost none of the bosses are even close to aggressive enough to make a meager 10 seconds of invincibility super useful. all bosses have hefty animation cooldowns etc. perhaps the gigantic mane-panther could make photon blast invincibility useful. i'm still tempted to just delete it for another panic heal A just because that's so much more utilizable.

my other mag is my soloing mag. it has hp heal J+item creation A. i wear it if i'm just wandering around and i can handle all the situations/mobs thrown at me. of course, the rest of the empty slots are filled with hp heal A's.

i understand that there are other trigger actions, like getting a buff upon entering a new area, but those are short lived and i do not think they are very significant buffs. hp heal A outshines those ones by far. luckily, it seems to be the cheapest/easiest to get on the market as well.

[SPOILER-BOX]haha....

;-;.

anyway long story short it's not a replacement. you can only put one item creation A on your mag. it won't stack like panic heal A (heals you if you get hit and go to low damage)

THE NOTABLE STUFF:
no matter what position it is on the trigger action list (1 or low as 4 or 5 if you have 3rd evolution) it poops out monomate/dimate (people have reported trimate, never got one yet but haven't used it for very long either) every ~28%. My results were as follows:

Right when I entered the dungeon, I got a monomate. It was in position 1. This is perhaps, because 28% had already passed from loitering in the lobby, so it was in queue to poop for a dungeon, since items won't spawn in the lobby/campship. This is my assumption.

In position 1, top of the list, for trigger order.
~10 minutes/28% hunger passes, I get a monomate.
~10 minutes/28% hunger passes, I get a dimate.

In position 5, bottom of the list least priority for trigger order
~10 minutes/28% hunger passes, I get a monomate.
~10 minutes/28% hunger passes, I get a dimate.

the results were basically identical. Perhaps I just got lucky, and when it's on priority 5 it's chance to poo dimate is much lower. Not sure, but i'm not willing to leave it at priority 1 if the results seem the same.


TL;DR:
item creation A is helpful to have, and it can be left at bottom priority with seemingly no differences from being top priority. the time and item production seem the same. you cannot stack item creation A. it only poos an item every 28% hunger/~10 minutes. DO NOT DELETE HP RESTORATION J ;----------;

If somebody could do a study for HP HEAL J, i'd be eternally grateful. I have a feeling it has possibly the same heal rate as item creation J has healing item generation rate.[/SPOILER-BOX]

HP HEAL J for hunter mags.

[SPOILER-BOX]-about ~1 minute faster than item creation J. heals about ~40 seconds faster if you put it as first priority.
-i think it heals others around you if they're near by, not sure.
-fullness does not effect hp heal j[/SPOILER-BOX]

HP HEAL A (panic heal)

[SPOILER-BOX]i wish descriptions weren't so vague and told you exactly what things do so you didn't have to figure out how they work yourself. anyway, i think i understand how HP HEAL A works

-its probability of activating doesn't seem to be effected if you stack it. HOWEVER...
-once your mag HP HEAL A's you once, it won't work again for a while. in other words, HP HEAL A has cooldown.
-this is why it can "stack." the more HP HEAL A's you have, the more you can get healed without having to wait for the cooldown for another HP HEAL A that may have been already used.
-hp heal A activates no matter the amount of damage you take. i used to think that it had higher chance of activation if you took huge damage, but that's not true.

-my method of testing HP HEAL A was mainly through burning myself in lava. at first i thought HP HEAL A was purely %'age based and did not have a cool down. when i first jumped into the lava HP HEAL A activated like 4 times within 10 hits which i quite a bit, but after that it almost never activated for some reason.

-i then fought a bunch of mobs and whenever i finally got hit, for some reason it seemed to proc quite a bit. this is how i came upon the conclusion that HP HEAL A has cool down, and the more you have of it, the more you can enjoy panic heals. however once you go through a panic heal, you should understand that it won't work again for a while.
-the cooldown for HP HEAL A is rather short. perhaps ~4 minutes. i'm not entirely sure on the number but it's definitely faster than HP HEAL J and item creation.[/SPOILER-BOX]

Sapparu
Jul 4, 2012, 04:26 AM
Panic heal A stacks? Is that worth stacking?

Kazzi
Jul 4, 2012, 07:12 AM
I was wondering how often it dropped items, as it seemed to do it a lot for me. Does feeding it make a difference to the frequency of the drop rate?

soulpimpwizzurd
Jul 4, 2012, 08:59 AM
I was wondering how often it dropped items, as it seemed to do it a lot for me. Does feeding it make a difference to the frequency of the drop rate?

no. it does not. @sapparu apparently panic heal A does seem to benefit from stacking

soulpimpwizzurd
Jul 8, 2012, 08:18 AM
updated thread with HP HEAL A and HP HEAL J research

Shinri
Jul 8, 2012, 02:48 PM
For what it's worth, I can confirm that Mags do poop out Trimate - although it seems to be a pretty rare occurrence. I've had item creation on my Mag for a few days now and I've received a single Trimate from it, compared to countless Dimate and Monomate. It's a pretty useful skill for your Mag to have, though, since free items saves Meseta!

As an aside, I'm not sure if it's a coincidence or not, but multiple times now it has given me an item in the middle of a boss fight when I'm not at full HP.

gigawuts
Jul 8, 2012, 03:10 PM
Do you have a brief description for each device? I've looked on wikis ( http://pso2.swiki.jp/index.php?%E3%83%9E%E3%82%B0%E3%81%AE%E3%82%A8%E3% 82%B5#q72e3ebf ) and around here, but information is either broken and vague because of google translate or it's simply nonexistent.

So far this information is grand though. On my striking mag, I'll probably keep the HP J and HP A (J as first now, I guess?), then either a PP device or HP device with a health item as the last one. Invincibility on PB gauge filling seems a bit limited, honestly.

Although I'd rather get a S&D device, if it exists. I can't make heads or tails of half these descriptions, so for all I know every other device gives the same S&D bonus.

Also, I'm acting under the assumption that the stage 3 mags get a fifth trigger action, correct?

Kazzi
Jul 8, 2012, 08:23 PM
no. it does not. @sapparu apparently panic heal A does seem to benefit from stacking

Tested it today and found that your mag won't poop items at all if the hunger is at 0%. It has to have been fed at least once.

soulpimpwizzurd
Jul 8, 2012, 09:06 PM
Tested it today and found that your mag won't poop items at all if the hunger is at 0%. It has to have been fed at least once.

yeah i forgot to add that. when i first got item creation A my mag was at 0% fullness and i was like "wdf where are my monomates poop dammit"

but when i was answering his question i figured he was referring to a difference in effect at 20% compared to 80% fullness, and there is none that i can tell.

however you're def right, there's a major difference if the mag is at 0% lol. it doesn't work at all.

JeyKama
Jul 8, 2012, 11:02 PM
Do you have a brief description for each device? I've looked on wikis ( http://pso2.swiki.jp/index.php?%E3%83%9E%E3%82%B0%E3%81%AE%E3%82%A8%E3% 82%B5#q72e3ebf ) and around here, but information is either broken and vague because of google translate or it's simply nonexistent.

The Trigger Actions are mostly self-explanatory and consist of Action + Trigger (the letter).

A=Activates on a condition (chance)
B=Activates on zone change (chance)
E=Activates when PB gauge fills (guaranteed)
G=Activates when an E.Trial starts (chance)
H=Activates when an E.Trial starts (usually better chance than G)
J=Activates at time intervals (guaranteed)

HP回復A
HP Restore A -
Has a chance to heal the owned when health becomes low. Activation chance is high, amount healed is very low.

HP回復J
HP Restore J - Lyra-series exclusive
Heals the owner at a set interval. The interval is short, amount healed is low.

PP回復B
PP Restore B - Caelum-series exclusive
Has a chance to increase PP regeneration upon changing areas. Activation chance is moderate, and duration is moderate.

PP回復E
PP Restore E - Corvus-series exclusive
Increases PP regeneration upon filling the PB gauge. Duration is moderate.

PP回復H
PP Restore H - Orion-series exclusive
Has a chance to increase PP regeneration at the start of an E.Trial. Activation chance is moderate, duration is moderate.

PP回復J
PP Restore J - Lepus-series exclusive
Increases PP regeneration at set intervals. The interval is long, duration is short.

能力上昇A
Status Upgrade A
Has a chance to gain Shifta/Deband upon changing zones. Activation chance is low, interval is short.

能力上昇B
Status Upgrade B - Tucana-exclusive
Has a chance to gain Shifta/Deband upon changing zones. Activation chance is moderate, interval is moderate.

能力上昇E
Status Upgrade E - Leo-exclusive
Gain Shifta/Deband when the PB gauge fills. Interval is moderate.

能力上昇G
Status Upgrade G
Has a chance to gain Shifta/Deband at the start of an E.Trial. Activation chance is low, interval is short.

能力上昇H
Status Upgrade H - Carina-exclusive
Has a chance to gain Shifta/Deband at the start of an E.Trial. Activation chance is moderate, interval is moderate.

能力上昇J
Status Upgrade J - Fornax-exclusive
Gain Shifta/Deband at set intervals. Interval is long.

状態異常A
Status Restore A
Has a chance to remove debuffs when debuffed. Activation chance is low, interval is low.

復活A
Revival A
Has a chance to revive the owner. Activation chance is extremely low.

無敵A
Invincible A
Owner becomes invincible when PB gauge becomes full. Duration is short.

HP回復系
Healing Item
Mag synthesizes healing items such as Monomates at set intervals.

範囲系
Mag synthesizes AOE healing items such as Sol Atomizers at set intervals.

Courina
Jul 8, 2012, 11:02 PM
Any Calculation for 支援デバイス/復活A (Revival Device A) ?

also which support and how much increase those device responded with Upgrade Device ? (the one with these http://pso2.swiki.jp/index.php?plugin=ref&page=%E6%B6%88%E8%B2%BB%E3%82%A2%E3%82%A4%E3%83%86 %E3%83%A0&src=%E3%83%95%E3%83%BC%E3%83%89%E3%83%87%E3%83%90% E3%82%A4%E3%82%B9.png image

moeri
Jul 9, 2012, 12:18 AM
PP回復H
PP Restore H - Orion-series exclusive
Has a chance to increase PP regeneration at the start of an E.Trial. Activation chance is moderate, duration is moderate.



Wondering if PP Restore H is good. mainly... approximately how long is the duration?

I am thinking of going from orion(to get trigger) to Carina because I think Carina's action is lackluster considering forces have deband and shifta

short invincibility also does not sound too helpful

soulpimpwizzurd
Jul 9, 2012, 12:52 AM
Wondering if PP Restore H is good. mainly... approximately how long is the duration?

I am thinking of going from orion(to get trigger) to Carina because I think Carina's action is lackluster considering forces have deband and shifta

short invincibility also does not sound too helpful

this pp restore h seems legit, @courina unfortunately the mag triggers i've posted about are the only ones i've messed around with so far.

hopefully others will step up to the plate and give a helping hand so we can weed out the useless from the useful.

and yeah, short invincibility really isn't that great. like i said, it may be in the future against bosses that are just completely berserk and are always attacking so you fill up your PB gauge like crazy from all the damage you're taking, but atm it's not.

JeyKama
Jul 17, 2012, 08:08 AM
This is the list of items available you can use for adding Triggers and etc. If you need a definition of each ability I listed them earlier in this thread somewhere (<--lazy atm)

生産デバイス/HP回復系
Production Device/Healing Item 4*
From: E.Trial reward, FUN Scratch

生産デバイス/範囲系
Production Device/AOE Healing Item 4*
From: E.Trial reward

支援デバイス/復活A
Support Device/Revival A 4*
From: E.Trial reward

支援デバイス/無敵A
Support Device/Invincible A 4*
From: E.Trial reward

支援デバイス/HP回復A
Support Device/HP Restore A 4*
From: E.Trial reward, FUN scratch

支援デバイス/状態異常A
Support Device/Status Restore A 4*
From: E.Trial reward, FUN scratch

支援デバイス/能力上昇A
Support Device/Status Upgrade A 4*
From: E.Trial reward

支援デバイス/能力上昇G
Support Device/Status Upgrade G 4*
From: E.Trial reward, FUN scratch

支援デバイス/能力上昇J
Support Device/Status Upgrade J 4*
From: E.Trial reward

フードデバイス/打撃
Food Device/S-ATK 6*
From: AC scratch

フードデバイス/射撃
Food Device/R-ATK 6*
From: AC scratch

フードデバイス/法撃
Food Device/T-ATK 6*
From: AC scratch

フードデバイス/技量
Food Device/Ability 6*
From: AC scratch

フードデバイス/打撃防御
Food Device/S-DEF 6*
From: AC scratch

フードデバイス/射撃防御
Food Device/R-DEF 6*
From: AC scratch

フードデバイス/法撃防御
Food Device/T-DEF 6*
From: AC scratch

マグ支援枠拡張デバイス
Mag Support Expansion 6*
Increases Trigger Action slots by +1 (Max of +3)
From: AC scratch

IndigoNovember
Jul 17, 2012, 09:46 AM
Wondering if PP Restore H is good. mainly... approximately how long is the duration?

I am thinking of going from orion(to get trigger) to Carina because I think Carina's action is lackluster considering forces have deband and shifta

short invincibility also does not sound too helpful

Switching your mag will not switch your trigger action.

JeyKama
Jul 17, 2012, 10:51 AM
He wants Carina's PB while having PP H. Understandable.

PP H's effect lasts a good 6 seconds at least. Enough to recharge pp 200%, but it tends to trigger between fights for me x(

Rowe
Jul 17, 2012, 11:21 AM
Is there a way to overwrite trigger actions without resetting your entire Mag? Also, I might want to look into getting some of those trigger action slot expander items...

RocSage
Jul 17, 2012, 11:33 AM
If you didn't know, you keep the PB that you get with the first evolution of that stage.

So if you want Carina's PB on Monoceros you evolve it first to Carina then Monoceros

JeyKama
Jul 17, 2012, 11:45 AM
Is there a way to overwrite trigger actions without resetting your entire Mag? Also, I might want to look into getting some of those trigger action slot expander items...

Once you cap out on trigger actions, if you add a new one via device you pick which existing one to replace. Pretty lenient. Mag expansions aren't cheap, and I take it are fairly rare.

Did not know about the PB thing, kinda nifty though to just make mags somewhat cosmetic in the end, if true.

Rowe
Jul 17, 2012, 11:45 AM
If you didn't know, you keep the PB that you get with the first evolution of that stage.

So if you want Carina's PB on Monoceros you evolve it first to Carina then Monoceros

Wait, are you sure? I was pretty certain that Trigger Action was permanent, but Auto Action and PB change when your Mag's form changes.

RocSage
Jul 17, 2012, 12:00 PM
... I'm certain about what I'm talking about but I am not certain about your terminology.
The list on the right bottom. That stuff is permanent.
People in this thread seem to be talking about them as PBs so that it what I sad.

IndigoNovember
Jul 17, 2012, 12:24 PM
... I'm certain about what I'm talking about but I am not certain about your terminology.
The list on the right bottom. That stuff is permanent.
People in this thread seem to be talking about them as PBs so that it what I sad.

Those are Trigger Actions, they are actions that occur depending on triggers and are permanent.

Photon Blasts are the special attacks where once your gauge is full and you trigger it, your mag transforms into another creature and does a special attack. You can chain Photon Blasts with other players by activating yours inside the circle that appears when another player starts using theirs. These change depending on your current form.

Auto Action is the normal attack that your mag will do every now and then. It doesn't transform when doing this one. These also change depending on your current form.

JeyKama
Jul 18, 2012, 11:47 AM
They gain a slot each time they evolve, so with those two and three expansions the cap right now would be 8 triggers.

JeyKama
Jul 19, 2012, 08:06 PM
Apparently 支援デバイス/PP回復A was added as a Mines E.Trial reward. Sounds good right...?

Lolno. Its trigger is a zone change, and its a short duration.

CelestialBlade
Jul 19, 2012, 09:05 PM
Just wanted to say that I really appreciate the research done in this thread, because this is amazingly rare information. I've got my MAG outfitted as such now:

1. HP Recovery J
2. HP Recovery A
3. HP Recovery A
4. HP Recovery A
5. Invincibility

and it heals me a *lot*. Stacking the emergency heal really does help. I'm not sure if there's really any value added in that particular priority order (mainly referring to the periodic heal), but I don't think it would make any real difference.

elken1996
Jul 20, 2012, 08:13 PM
HP HEAL A (panic heal)

[SPOILER-BOX]i wish descriptions weren't so vague and told you exactly what things do so you didn't have to figure out how they work yourself. anyway, i think i understand how HP HEAL A works

-its probability of activating doesn't seem to be effected if you stack it. HOWEVER...
-once your mag HP HEAL A's you once, it won't work again for a while. in other words, HP HEAL A has cooldown.
-this is why it can "stack." the more HP HEAL A's you have, the more you can get healed without having to wait for the cooldown for another HP HEAL A that may have been already used.
-hp heal A activates no matter the amount of damage you take. i used to think that it had higher chance of activation if you took huge damage, but that's not true.

-my method of testing HP HEAL A was mainly through burning myself in lava. at first i thought HP HEAL A was purely %'age based and did not have a cool down. when i first jumped into the lava HP HEAL A activated like 4 times within 10 hits which i quite a bit, but after that it almost never activated for some reason.

-i then fought a bunch of mobs and whenever i finally got hit, for some reason it seemed to proc quite a bit. this is how i came upon the conclusion that HP HEAL A has cool down, and the more you have of it, the more you can enjoy panic heals. however once you go through a panic heal, you should understand that it won't work again for a while.
-the cooldown for HP HEAL A is rather short. perhaps ~4 minutes. i'm not entirely sure on the number but it's definitely faster than HP HEAL J and item creation.[/SPOILER-BOX]

I don't think HP restore A works that way now. I have 7 HP restore A currently and it only trigger once and it only will trigger again after the cooldown after i test in the lava. But it still trigger like what u said when boss hit me

gigawuts
Jul 26, 2012, 08:45 PM
I don't know if it's been looked into, but I finally raised my Leo to have the S-ATK required for my main weapon so can finally switch to it.

With that switch, I stopped having the PB-triggered invincibility on my delphinus. So I gave my Leo that trigger action via device. That meant it had both Leo's own PB-triggered S&D buff, AND PB-triggered invincibility. This is where it gets interesting.

Only one triggers: the one with the highest priority. I left the order at default for 3 PB's, then switched invincibility to be above buff. Suddenly only invincibility was triggering. I've only tested 6 times, but none of those times did I receive the lower priority one. I have a suspicion you may have a low chance to trigger both, but that is 100% purely speculative and potentially not at all true.

Still, even with one mag that means you can switch priority of certain trigger actions based on what you want. When solo I'd usually want invincibility, but in groups I'd want the S&D buff. If you aren't spending cash this is one way you can make your mag versatile, albeit at the expense of other more universally useful trigger actions like HP A and other stuff.

Primobol
Jul 26, 2012, 09:02 PM
I don't know if it's been looked into, but I finally raised my Leo to have the S-ATK required for my main weapon so can finally switch to it.

With that switch, I stopped having the PB-triggered invincibility on my delphinus. So I gave my Leo that trigger action via device. That meant it had both Leo's own PB-triggered S&D buff, AND PB-triggered invincibility. This is where it gets interesting.

Only one triggers: the one with the highest priority. I left the order at default for 3 PB's, then switched invincibility to be above buff. Suddenly only invincibility was triggering. I've only tested 6 times, but none of those times did I receive the lower priority one. I have a suspicion you may have a low chance to trigger both, but that is 100% purely speculative and potentially not at all true.

Still, even with one mag that means you can switch priority of certain trigger actions based on what you want. When solo I'd usually want invincibility, but in groups I'd want the S&D buff. If you aren't spending cash this is one way you can make your mag versatile, albeit at the expense of other more universally useful trigger actions like HP A and other stuff.
Lol I was in the same situation as you when I remembered (I guess I've read somewhere) that trigger actions work like this:

When a condition is met, the MAG will choose ONE trigger action from the list from top to bottom that is not on cooldown and "roll the dice" to see if it activates or not.

That's why our Leo can't have invincibility and S&D on full PB-gauge =/
That's also why stacking "panic heal" work like that and don't increase the actual chance of triggering it everytime we reach half HP.


EDIT: Well, in fact mine is triggering the invincibility one ALWAYS. The invincibility is with priority 5 and the S&D with 2. I'll test with S&D on priority 1 now and if that doesn't work I'll remove the invincibility to see the S&D triggering...
EDIT2: I removed the invincibility trigger action, tested the S&D several times and after that I added the invincibility again just to clear my mind and BAM, now the priorities are being followed correctly. However, sometimes the lower priority action will trigger (or none of them) because both of them have cooldowns (it seems to be around 10 mins, but that's just a guess, 'cause in real situations it shouldn't matter at all).
Another result from the tests is that S&D seems to not be affected by the priority used at all (I tested from 2 to 6, maybe priority 1 enhance it someway). It's always 30 secs duration and around 15% increase in the current stats.