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View Full Version : JP PSO2 weapon rarities on damage output!



origami21
Jul 12, 2012, 12:41 PM
okay, i've been here quite some time, and i believe the general opinion is higher rarity weapons (the red star ones) lost in term of damage output compared to the rarity 5 ones. (assuming they both have similiar grind levels)

so here's my question:

i have a +8 rare 8 gunblade, with 309 s-atk and no s-atk enhancing ability, with 18% dark element.

and a +9 rare 5 gunblade with 338 s-atk with +10 s-atk and no element.

the thing is, even though the +9 rare 5 has much higher s-atk, the actual damage (tested on cave and forest monsters) is waaayy lower than the +8 8 star one. the enemy isn't weak to darkness, i'm pretty sure of that, and the multiplier is almost the same (the 8star has 154%, and the 5 star has 152%)

so why on earth is the +9 5 star weaker, even though it has superior s-atk compared to the 8 star? and i notice the difference in actual damage is quite large, too.

did i just waste money?

PhannyBandit
Jul 12, 2012, 12:51 PM
Rarity has jack shit to do with damage output the real indicator is the stat requirement.

Edit: Maybe I should respond to the topic as well. The only huge variances you are going to see is where you hit the enemy. If you are going to test only test on specific hitboxes as some receive more damage than others. It's not like the 8 rarity one is magically better just because.

origami21
Jul 12, 2012, 01:08 PM
Yes, I am well aware about the effect of certain hit boxes to damage. And I made sure that the hits were done under same circumstances, as in no weak spot hit, same shifta drink, all while unbuffed. Tested on desert too, the 8 star still has superior damage output while having lower s-atk.

Anyone can confirm? Because I really need to watch my spendings.

RocSage
Jul 12, 2012, 01:10 PM
LEARN TO USE THE PROPER SHORT HAND

Your post is gook because you are just giving numbers that don't make sense.

What the hell is a "+9 rare 5 gunblade"
Do you mean 9* +5 Gunblade or a 5* +9 Gunblade. Further, what Model is it? The different Rarity(star) levels each have 3 models with them for non-rares (6* and below) while rare (7* and above) have several models for each rarity.

As far as your question. That probably has to do with your Ability stat. The closer your ABL stat is to your weapon's ABL stat, or what ever it is, the less of a variance your damage has. So it could be that the Higher S-ATK weapon can do stronger attacks, but because you ABL and it's aren't close enough the variance is higher and your average damage is lower.

As far as did you waste your money... probably if you are looking at only S-ATK. The Strongest weapons in the game, from what I can tell, right now are 5* model 2 weapons, which have the highest base and grinded ATK of all the weapons i have in my data.

Sigmund
Jul 12, 2012, 01:11 PM
What attack are you doing on your Gunblade?

origami21
Jul 12, 2012, 01:29 PM
LEARN TO USE THE PROPER SHORT HAND

Your post is gook because you are just giving numbers that don't make sense.

What the hell is a "+9 rare 5 gunblade"
Do you mean 9* +5 Gunblade or a 5* +9 Gunblade. Further, what Model is it? The different Rarity(star) levels each have 3 models with them for non-rares (6* and below) while rare (7* and above) have several models for each rarity.

As far as your question. That probably has to do with your Ability stat. The closer your ABL stat is to your weapon's ABL stat, or what ever it is, the less of a variance your damage has. So it could be that the Higher S-ATK weapon can do stronger attacks, but because you ABL and it's aren't close enough the variance is higher and your average damage is lower.

As far as did you waste your money... probably if you are looking at only S-ATK. The Strongest weapons in the game, from what I can tell, right now are 5* model 2 weapons, which have the highest base and grinded ATK of all the weapons i have in my data.

oh, my bad, sorry. i'm kinda sleepy and didn't realize i missed some vital info's
the rare 5 gunblade is the 2nd model, i believe, the longer one with orange blade. and the 8 star is the one that has the green-ish energy blade "ネグリングゼロ" (from the googledoc i saved from this forum, haven't cross-checked it with it's actual ingame name) the one that has 370-something strike requirements to wield (NOT the 400 strike req. and no energy blade one)

i tested with most attacks (normal combo, just-combos, PAs)

didn't know ability affects that. will try using it again, and see the overall damage in the long run.

thanks for the answers, and sorry. (really, it's like, 1 a.m. here. hitting the logout button in pso2 is hard.)

RocSage
Jul 12, 2012, 01:40 PM
...
So you have a 5*2+9. That should be the strongest Gunblade in the game as far as my data is concerned and it should, if people are right, have higher reqs than the 8*

InfinityTotality
Jul 26, 2012, 10:25 AM
So are you saying that the 5* Alva Hatchet (アルバハチェット) with its 250 ability requirement and 345/310 s.atk/r.atk at +10 is stronger than:
the 8* Twizzler (トゥウィスラー) with 385/346 s.atk/r.atk at +10 or
the 8* Sarhaling (サーハリング) with 358/322 s.atk/r.atk at +10 or even
the 9* Cruel Coffin (クルールコフィン) which has 369/332 s.atk/r.atk at +10?
Are these numbers inaccurate (they seem to be the same in-game), or am I missing something else here?

Crimson Exile
Jul 26, 2012, 10:57 AM
So are you saying that the 5* Alva Hatchet (アルバハチェット) with its 250 ability requirement and 345/310 s.atk/r.atk at +10 is stronger than:
the 8* Twizzler (トゥウィスラー) with 385/346 s.atk/r.atk at +10 or
the 8* Sarhaling (サーハリング) with 358/322 s.atk/r.atk at +10 or even
the 9* Cruel Coffin (クルールコフィン) which has 369/332 s.atk/r.atk at +10?
Are these numbers inaccurate (they seem to be the same in-game), or am I missing something else here?
This thread is old. I'm sure people know that the common weapons don't out damage the REAL rares.

Saffran
Jul 26, 2012, 11:37 AM
And yet, as old as it is, nobody answered the OP to explain him what was going on.

Rare weapons have an innate bonus to Ability. Basically when you use a 7* or higher weapon, your ability gets multiplied (players have guessed 1.25 but it could depend on the weapon) before damage is calculated.

A 5* weapon will have a damage spread of (for example) 300 to 550, yet a rare weapon with about the exact same S ATK value would do more in the vicinity of 400-550. S-ATK is not the only number to look at.

Xaeris
Jul 26, 2012, 03:43 PM
Source?

Saffran
Jul 27, 2012, 04:25 AM
The usual wikis. I was reading about it in the comment section.

Of course, now that I'm trying to link to it, I don't find it anymore. Grr.

Saffran
Jul 27, 2012, 04:43 AM
Found it. They placed it into "tips".

http://wikiwiki.asia/pso2/index.php?cmd=read&page=Tips&word=%A3%B1%A1%A4%A3%B2%A3%B5

scroll down to "differences due to rarity" (レア度による違い)

jooozek
Jul 27, 2012, 07:54 AM
Can you translate it? Google translate makes absolutely no sense. What does this multiply? Total ability amount? Base ability amount?

Saffran
Jul 27, 2012, 10:01 AM
Each weapon has a preset maximum attack value. Sometimes, rare weapons have about the same amount of attack as more common ones. So logically, it would be better to use the more common ones, right ? Since grinding would be cheaper and stuff. BUT rare weapons have their own particularities.

7* and higher rare weapons have an Ability Bonus of 125%. (note from translator : the way they say it, I would hasard that your ability is factored at 125% when using it.)
For example, let's take the 5* rare Alva Claymore (Max S-Atk 394) and the 7* rare Zamba (max S-Atk 400). Their maximum damage output is about just the same, but while the Alva Claymore goes all over the place in the range of 300 to 500 damage, the Zamba keeps hitting for 400 to 500 damage.
Thus, players should keep in mind that using a rare weapon (nft: 7* and more) will have them deal, overall, more damage than if they were using a more common one (nft: anything less than 7*).

jooozek
Jul 27, 2012, 10:29 AM
I already know how the ability stat works from this thread (http://www.pso-world.com/forums/showthread.php?t=197532)and I'm just wondering, just how much ability do those rare weapons add.

Saffran
Jul 27, 2012, 12:42 PM
What part of "ability factored at 125%" did you not understand?
If you have (like I do) 269 it will add 68 points.

jooozek
Jul 27, 2012, 12:49 PM
Let me quote my previous post:

(...) What does this multiply? Total ability amount? Base ability amount?

Saffran
Jul 27, 2012, 02:13 PM
At first I had forgotten about rappy souls and was wondering what difference it would make anyway...

We don't know for now (at least I haven't found any hard data on it).
I'm tempted to say "we don't care", but then again if "base stat" means even without the mag, it can amount to...

(weapon + 3 units with rappy souls) + 150 ability mag = 270. So 70 points more in the hidden bonus.

Generally speaking though, your mag stats are added to your base stats (and it affects what you can use/wear) so it's safe to say that skill tree stats boni and mag stats are considered to be your base stat.

That leaves a possible "loss" of 30 points (the worth of the bonus on 4 rappy souls). You'd need a really special weapon (with more than 500 Atk itself) to test out the difference.

JayD-X
Jul 27, 2012, 02:44 PM
It's definitely different when you use the ranged attack and the sword attack.

scrangos
Jul 27, 2012, 09:18 PM
Hmm, this hidden proerty of weapons makes me wonder if rare armors also have a property as well... Has there been any rumors regarding rare armors vs non rare armors?

Xaeris
Jul 27, 2012, 09:30 PM
Found it. They placed it into "tips".

http://wikiwiki.asia/pso2/index.php?cmd=read&page=Tips&word=%A3%B1%A1%A4%A3%B2%A3%B5

scroll down to "differences due to rarity" (レア度による違い)

Thanks for going to the trouble of finding it. That's quite interesting.

Saffran
Jul 28, 2012, 06:21 AM
Thanks for going to the trouble of finding it. That's quite interesting.

You're welcome. I would be pretty suspiscious(sp?) if someone just barged in with wiki info that he/she can't find again. ;)

As for the above poster, I will look into it but I have not come across such information for now. If anything, you could say that rare armors have more "native" propoerties than others. There's a 9* armor that has 30HP, 3PP, Blow Resist and Shot Resist even without anything on it. And we don't know, it could be Resist2 or 3.

Plus, remember all the fancy hidden things in PSP2. And the sets in PSOBB. The game is still "too new". We need to wait a bit for people to get enough rares to try the combinations.

origami21
Jul 28, 2012, 07:51 AM
whoah, thanks for the input. i was damn sure that the rare was stronger, or at least much more consistent, the the 5-star ones. but then again, the whole community seems to be against the whole idea, so i chose to keep quiet. this is interesting :-)

edit: and for extra input, i bought a couple more rares, the white spear with red blade, the vol dragon sword, both +8, compared them to their respective 5-star +10 counterpart, and while the 5-star still has higher attack numerically, after field testing, the rares still far outdamage the 5-stars. no need to remind meabout weak spots, etc. i tested them on identical situations. the results still holds, the rares outdamage the 5-stars, even though their attack power and multiplier is less than those of the 5-stars.