Determined to be an Ice Force!

[Sky's the Limit]

Hi everyone! For my Force, in all PSO games I made her in, I always focused on using ice techniques.

From what I've read, I've been seeing that fire is pretty much the only way to go. I've been trying to make a viable ice tree. I have some time till it comes out in the US, and I bet a lot will change by then.

I'm thinking she will be more of a healer, support, crowd control build than straight damage.

Another thing I'm wondering about is people saying it's pointless to cast non charged techniques. Is this true? Even with a pure TATK mag and skills in tech damage? I'm also unsure how quickly PP is burnt through, so I'll put a couple possible builds up. I'm not really too worried about always being a super powerful damage dealer. I'm usually more worried about making sure my friends stay healthy through the battles. I have my heart set on doing ice, since it's prettier looking than the other two. XD

-All Ice stuff. I know Freeze Detonation is usless now, but maybe it'll be good when PSO2 hits the US. Here's hoping!

http://ryuhiroshi.ry.funpic.de/pso2/force.html?01FO!IOI2GBjJIbx6

-This one would be more focused on casting non-charged ice techs quickly. Not sure how removing the PP UP would effect efficiency. I AM planning on taking a pure TATK mag, so I'll have the PP Recovery passive, and the Photon Blast that gives you the PP fill effect. But.. if non charged techs are utterly worthless, I'm not too sure this would work.

http://ryuhiroshi.ry.funpic.de/pso2/force.html?01FO!IOI2GBjznfbnHnf

-Now if charging is MANDITORY for doing damage and for having people not be mean to me while grouping with me, I'd probably do this one.

http://ryuhiroshi.ry.funpic.de/pso2/force.html?01FO!IOI2GBH2dscC8

Anyways, thanks for your input and help!

[Dinosaur]

Another thing I'm wondering about is people saying it's pointless to cast non charged techniques. Is this true? Even with a pure TATK mag and skills in tech damage?

Yes. Uncharged techs have damage terrible damage and the size of the spell is small in comparison to a charged tech. For the same amount of PP, a charged tech will outperform non-charged techs in every situation. With that said, it is mandatory for any FO to pick up the skill "Charge PP Revival" or else you will fall behind in combat efficiency.

Aside from that, there are some other things to know:
- T-atk Up is almost specifically for meeting base T-atk weapon requirements if your MAG build does not provide enough T-atk to do so. (For reference, the strongest Rod requires 494 base T-atk; PCs have around 360 to 396 base T-atk at level 40.)
- Tech Charge Advance 1 and 2 are FO's best all-round skills for damage.
- PP up is generally not worth it. There are more efficient and effective uses of SP(e.g.: pretty much any other skill).

An Ice-focused FO tree can look something like this: http://ryuhiroshi.ry.funpic.de/pso2/force.html?01FO!IOI2kbI2dsJk8
- The 10 SP into "Tech Charge Advance" can be put anywhere else you wish.

[Sky's the Limit]

Oh, neat! Thanks for the info and idea! I wasn't sure about the PP and T-Atk ones though, so..

Is there a way to quickly exchange trees? Because I'd like to swap the 10 for the extra freeze chance with the 10 in charge power 1. Would be better for boss battles, right?

[Dinosaur]

Is there a way to quickly exchange trees?

You can buy extra skill trees in-game and change your active one at will in the lobby.

[Zorafim]

I tried doing pure ice. Then I switched to fire, and noticed I was doing nearly twice as much damage. It's really unfair. Everything in the fire tree is noticeably great, while the only good skill in the ice tree is the skill that boosts ice damage.

Freeze is also kind of useless. Anything that's frozen will almost instantly become unfrozen. And even if it's frozen, that doesn't help you much. The enemy can't move until you hit it, so... what are you going to do? It barely provides any benefit.

So, my suggested ice build is this (http://ryuhiroshi.ry.funpic.de/pso2/force.html?01FO!IOI2kbI22ScK8). Your damage is boosted by 45%. That's pretty much the best you can do. Even if you aren't focused on damage, there's not really anything else that's useful. Fire gets half cast time, doesn't have to waste 10 points just to get a necessary skill, and can easily go into more damage boosting skills. Thunder saves a bunch of PP on thunder techs, and boosts JA'd techs. Ice? Nothing.

I really hope this gets balanced. I hate using fire as a water sprite.

[SPOnion]

http://ryuhiroshi.ry.funpic.de/pso2/force.html?01FO!IOI2GOI22TIxinj

My current build. I'm quite satisfied since I can use basically fire/ice/light all very effectively, and 1 point in Shock Mastery works when the character is registered as an NPC (no PP limit). My only question is, what if I instead level TATT 2 to 10. I heard some tests have proven that 100 ATT is better that 1.2 but without real numbers. So has anyone done that?

[Valymer]

http://ryuhiroshi.ry.funpic.de/pso2/force.html?01FO!IOI2GOI22TIxinj

My current build. I'm quite satisfied since I can use basically fire/ice/light all very effectively, and 1 point in Shock Mastery works when the character is registered as an NPC (no PP limit). My only question is, what if I instead level TATT 2 to 10. I heard some tests have proven that 100 ATT is better that 1.2 but without real numbers. So has anyone done that?

My guess is it depends on whether a T-Atk soft cap exists, and if it does, how close you are to it with your equipment and mag. I'm pretty sure that it does exist, although I don't have any hard evidence and I have no clue what the number is - it might even vary a bit depending on race/gender.

[TecherRamen]

Hi everyone! For my Force, in all PSO games I made her in, I always focused on using ice techniques.

From what I've read, I've been seeing that fire is pretty much the only way to go. I've been trying to make a viable ice tree. I have some time till it comes out in the US, and I bet a lot will change by then.

I'm thinking she will be more of a healer, support, crowd control build than straight damage.

Another thing I'm wondering about is people saying it's pointless to cast non charged techniques. Is this true? Even with a pure TATK mag and skills in tech damage? I'm also unsure how quickly PP is burnt through, so I'll put a couple possible builds up. I'm not really too worried about always being a super powerful damage dealer. I'm usually more worried about making sure my friends stay healthy through the battles. I have my heart set on doing ice, since it's prettier looking than the other two. XD

-All Ice stuff. I know Freeze Detonation is usless now, but maybe it'll be good when PSO2 hits the US. Here's hoping!


http://ryuhiroshi.ry.funpic.de/pso2/force.html?01FO!IOI2GBjJIbx6

-This one would be more focused on casting non-charged ice techs quickly. Not sure how removing the PP UP would effect efficiency. I AM planning on taking a pure TATK mag, so I'll have the PP Recovery passive, and the Photon Blast that gives you the PP fill effect. But.. if non charged techs are utterly worthless, I'm not too sure this would work.

http://ryuhiroshi.ry.funpic.de/pso2/force.html?01FO!IOI2GBjznfbnHnf

-Now if charging is MANDITORY for doing damage and for having people not be mean to me while grouping with me, I'd probably do this one.

http://ryuhiroshi.ry.funpic.de/pso2/force.html?01FO!IOI2GBH2dscC8

Anyways, thanks for your input and help!
Hi! Let me start by saying that I am an ice force and have been fighting sincw the start of the open beta to tell the community that these spells are not useless. I have done a lot of skill tree building and testing and have attained a strong level of understanding about these spells. If you are going more for support then ice is an excellent choice. Ice spells are aturally geared towards a defensive Attack style and are good for supporting other players especially a tanking hunter. Barta is good for hitting multiple enemies from far away out of harms reach, gibarta is good FO circling an enemy and for corralling groups since it has a push or barrier effect to it. And rabarta is excent because you can cast it from a talis sent to a hunters position. It's fixed hit interval acts to flinch lock enemies an interrupts their attack cycle acting as a protective field around other Players.

Also when you freeze distant enemies it removes them from combat for long enough for your party to resolve other threats before engaging. Freeze ignition is not useless just keep it in mind and train yourself to use it and you will get a lot oh of it. All ice attacks hav an instantaneous freeze effect which stops most enemies for a brief amount of time even if the status is not confered.

Since you are interested in ice and support I would suggest http://ryuhiroshi.ry.funpic.de/pso2/force.html?01FO!IOI24OI2dxJIbA6 . You may wonder about the flame charge however I recommend it for a couple reasons. Instant shifta for support. gifoie on a rod is an excellent counter swarm strategy and rafoie is good for highly mobile, air, and/or singular targets, something ice does not excell at. Also foie is similar to Barta so if you can master barta foie is good for lines of dark enemies. About the ice, Ice mastery adds a skill point cost effective way to boost your damage. Freeze boost is very utilitous for support if you are hitting strings of enemies and freezing them; Also if you freeze enemies it will keep them in place for follow up hits from the same spell. Freeze ignition you could leave, however, I think it is good, at 6 points if you make a point to use it it will come in handy for anything big that happens to stray over your way.

[TecherRamen]

The reason people go deep fire is not because fire spells are the best, even though they arguably are for damage. If it was only that, people would just max flame mastery and be done with that tree. It's because the skills below it are just so good for damage. Yes, photon flare and freeze ignition are powerful. But with cooldowns of 2 minutes and 1 minute, respectively, they're not really game-changers.

If you want to make a force who specializes in cold techniques, I would _still_ go mostly fire. Basically, get the bare minimum of fire skills to unlock Charge PP Recovery, then max ice mastery (giving you +20% damage with ice techs), and finally max both Tech Charge Advances (giving you +20% damage to all charged techniques). Charge PP Recovery _is_ a game changer, and it happens to unlock two very good skills. That's why a lot of builds hit it.

Really, you just need to understand the playstyle they _wanted_ for of all the trees, and how that went wrong. Fire was meant to be the steady, heavy-hitter. Fire-heavy forces move in with charged-up *foies with good PP recovery and pound the enemy with hard hits. Ice was meant to be the spiky damage tree. Ice has lower consistent damage, but during appropriate moments, you can charge up and execute enormous hits. The playstyle involves defensively biding your time until the moment of striking mega blows. Lightning was meant to be the barrage caster, using low-cost, well-timed uncharged techniques to both trigger sazondes and quickly eat away at enemy HP.

But here's what happens in reality: the fire force can simply walk in and one or two shot distant trash with plain foie or ravage entire groups with one or two rafoies. They don't need special strategies because they have _enormous_ baseline effectiveness. Ice simply ends up being too reliant on CD's that are too long to compete with fire's damage. And the pure lightning playstyle, I dunno. I know a few people do it and like it. I haven't tried it enough to say if it's competitive, damagewise. Most lightning specialists I've talked to basically say they just take Bolt Mastery and Bolt Tech PP Save and use charged attacks anyway.

So the best way to be an ice force is to spam Rafoie... interesting, very interesting. you have much to teach us...

[Dextro]

That's only if you assume that the 'Ice-Specialist FO' is actively trying to maximise the damage of the Barta line, which - according to these posts - isn't really the case.

The main role they want to take on is supportive, so dumping 20sp in the Tech Charge Adv. line isn't the wisest way to spend points. Going as far as PP Revival, though, is almost mandatory for any build.

You have to bear in mind that their play style is different to straight damage-dealing FOs, and for what they're doing on the field, skills like Freeze Boost - which increases the chance of immediately staggering an enemy and cancelling their actions (regardless of how quickly the freeze condition is broken) - will help out a whole lot more than an extra 10% charge damage.

I can't comment on Freeze Ignition since i've never seen it in use... i suppose you could allocate its points to maxing one of the Tech Charge Advances, or Flame Tech S Charge if you prefer.

[Valymer]

That's only if you assume that the 'Ice-Specialist FO' is actively trying to maximise the damage of the Barta line, which - according to these posts - isn't really the case.

The main role they want to take on is supportive, so dumping 20sp in the Tech Charge Adv. line isn't the wisest way to spend points. Going as far as PP Revival, though, is almost mandatory for any build.

You have to bear in mind that their play style is different to straight damage-dealing FOs, and for what they're doing on the field, skills like Freeze Boost - which increases the chance of immediately staggering an enemy and cancelling their actions (regardless of how quickly the freeze condition is broken) - will help out a whole lot more than an extra 10% charge damage.

I can't comment on Freeze Ignition since i've never seen it in use... i suppose you could allocate its points to maxing one of the Tech Charge Advances, or Flame Tech S Charge if you prefer.

Can't comment on the deep ice stuff as I've never tried it, but I wanted to point out that Charge Tech does boost Resta (for support tech)

Of course we all have such low HP at level 40 that I don't know how much it matters yet.

[Dextro]

Can't comment on the deep ice stuff as I've never tried it, but I wanted to point out that Charge Tech does boost Resta (for support tech)

Of course we all have such low HP at level 40 that I don't know how much it matters yet.

Yeah, i actually wrote a bit more about Resta but deleted it because i thought the difference between healing for 220 and healing for 264 just comes down to boosting your Resta e-peen rather than making a life-saving change :D

But i'm gonna add that - as Ramen said - you'll likely be using a talis to do things such as throw strategic Rabartas & Shiftas.
This goes hand-in-hand with all you support players that'll love to be able to throw Restas out too, it's up to you whether you want the higher heals or not.

[UnLucky]

So, my suggested ice build is this (http://ryuhiroshi.ry.funpic.de/pso2/force.html?01FO!IOI2kbI22ScK8).

Basically this.

Status boosts are totally not worth it because at max it's 1.1*0.29, which I believe is rounded down to a 31% chance to freeze on your best freezing spells (and less for every other spell). Very nice use of 10 skill points.

Freeze ignition is a nice bonus single target melee attack that's only usable very rarely in solo situations. Very nice use of 10 skill points.

PP Up gives +10 PP when maxed. Very nice use of 10 skill points.

Photon Flare gives a fixed bonus to Tech for a percentage of your health and lasts a quarter of its cooldown. Even if it were a large boost for a minor hindrance, it would still be a poor choice to dig deep into such a terrible skill tree in order to get.

T-Def Up, well, if you can't wear Force armor because you're a Cast or didn't spec your mag that way, well, you'll be totally gimp if you ruin your tree getting this.

I'd say they were trying to make the single most worthless skill tree possible, but it doesn't have Normal Tech Advance. No idea why that one's even in the game.


Really, you just need to understand the playstyle they _wanted_ for of all the trees, and how that went wrong.
Well they made Rafoie too big, powerful, and spamable. Ice's actives are just not very useful in and of themselves. Bolt skills cost too much normally for much other than Sazonde spam to be worth taking over Rafoie, and uncharged techs are not to be mentioned.

Here (http://ryuhiroshi.ry.funpic.de/pso2/force.html?01FO!IOI2kbI22SjcAcAf) is my recommended Bolt build for reference. You don't choose Tech JA Advance over Tech Charge Advance because that one doesn't affect support spells and you might miss a JA occasionally. If you ever miss a charge, well, all the Tech JA Advance in the world isn't going to make up for it.

[TecherRamen]

Actually, what I was saying was that going deep fire is probably better damage even if you're purely using ice techs. I think charge PP recover and a constant +20% damage to charged attacks is superior for ice forces than what's offered deep in the ice tree. You could still get cold mastery after that for +20% cold damage.

The only reason I brought up rafoie and lightning was to illustrate a point. A lot of the intended mechanics for deep ice and deep lightning forces just aren't very good. That's why, even for an ice force purely using ice attacks, deep fire skills probably offer the best overall damage increase. Photon Flare is +200 tatk at max level, afaik, which isn't amazing lategame (that's a boost of less than 25% for most lvl 40 forces). I don't think it's a godly burst tool lategame. Freeze ignition is 200% dmg on a 60 second CD, and it has a short range at which it must be used. Good but hardly amazing given the CD. I think the significant extra PP and flat 20% damage increase would help ice a lot more.

Putting it that way I have to agree, Ice and Lightning, atleast for the time being, are trees whose greatest gains are shallow within the tree.

I cant argue with throwing away freeze ignition, but I will still stand up for freeze boost, I just love that increased chance to freeze.

[Zorafim]

I will say that I noticed a pretty substancial boost to my freezing chance with freeze boost. The problem I had with it wasn't the freeze chance, but what to do with frozen enemies. If you can figure out that problem, then I guess you have a good reason to increase the status effect.

[Gany]

SPOnion, your FO build is identical to mine!

*queue spooky musics* :yes:

[SPOnion]

As far as I read, the chance is actually added directly, which means a +10% chance with 10 SP.
But since freeze is not that great a status and most things that can be frozen won't stand even only a few shots anyway it really don't feel that significant compared elsewhere, like, fire tree, fire tree or fire tree.

And Gany, yeah, high5~

[TecherRamen]

Freeze is awesome! Stuff stops moving.What you do with it? Well: It lets you get in that second shot of barta without having to re position, or it lets you charge up another spell because the enemy next to you isnt going anywhere. Or that guy in the back you can save to kill for later because hes encased in ice. It slows down the dispersion of enemies and even if the freeze breaks right away it stopped that enemy from attacking your freind before she could attack it... Now, if only freeze ignition had some range we might have a cool combination, I get chills just thinking about it...

[Sky's the Limit]

Now, if only freeze ignition had some range we might have a cool combination, I get chills just thinking about it...

Ahhhh! Your pun! It hurts!

But they also need to drop the cooldown of it significantly, in addition to increasing the range. They could also make it a passive ability where any time freeze breaks, it does a significant portion of damage to the frozen target and a moderate amount of damage to the targets around it. I think they're going to do a lot of adjusting to the trees before they come out in the US. That, or they're just going to leave them as they are and make pure classes. Think Forces, but with a tree that isn't as poorly done.

[SPOnion]

Freeze is awesome! Stuff stops moving.What you do with it? Well: It lets you get in that second shot of barta without having to re position, or it lets you charge up another spell because the enemy next to you isnt going anywhere. Or that guy in the back you can save to kill for later because hes encased in ice. It slows down the dispersion of enemies and even if the freeze breaks right away it stopped that enemy from attacking your freind before she could attack it... Now, if only freeze ignition had some range we might have a cool combination, I get chills just thinking about it...

Freeze currently has no use in many areas, especially those with MPAs, no use against most bosses, only a bit of use when one is with a very small party, and no use when soloing with NPCs. Other things, such as light, hampers enemies with more damage and a significantly larger area.

No, freeze is not awesome most of the time. Even if ignition has a unlimited range, it is not great unless they do something about the "unfrozen" condition.

[NoiseHERO]

You know in that video of unreleased techs, it looked like there was one Ice TECH that sort of made a giant AOE mist like effect, I assume it has some kind of high freeze rate? I dunno...

Maybe that'd make something like freeze ignition not-suck..

That among other unreleased things will make the "just go Fire tree anyway" FOs cringe at their cookie cutter builds!

[SPOnion]

Well, as long as PP revival and TA charge is FIRE TREE ONLY and frozen enemies get unfrozen with only a few punches, there is really no difference what ice spells they release. You will find using fire trees actually making using ice spells more effectively. Speaking of irony.

[UnLucky]

Ice tree needs cd reduction or buff increase, and Bolt tree needs uncharged techs to do 10x as much damage or something.

Fire needs something worthless that no one will ever take. Then the trees will be balanced.

[NoiseHERO]

Ice tree needs cd reduction or buff increase, and Bolt tree needs uncharged techs to do 10x as much damage or something.

Fire needs something worthless that no one will ever take. Then the trees will be balanced.

/end all discussions on force builds pre-sub class