Techer Skill Tree Conjecture thread

[Pirrip]

I saw that the skill tree simulator has updated the map for the techer class only so far, and has yet to fill in the details(see link below)
It goes without saying that the techer skill tree is far more balanced than the Force skill tree( where all the best skills on the foie branch).

I'm debating between going for a purely offensive Megiddo build or a purely support(Resta/Territory Boost/Deband).

It seems like-at this point in the game-there is little motivation to put points into a skill like Panic boost. It only inflicts panic and may not work on the boss monsters you'd want it to.

Also as we've gathered from the Force skill tree, Freeze Ignition is generally inconvenient to use in a party because A) it also may not work on the bosses you want it to, and B) because your party members might hit your frozen enemies before you get a chance to activate your skill.

---Poison Ignition, on the other hand is a significantly more useful skill over Freeze Ignition in that poison status does not go away when the inflicted enemy gets hit. However, it still might not work on bosses so well.
---Also--at this point in the game, the floating continent is the perfect end-game situation for someone going down the Megiddo side of the skill tree.

ALSO, any opinions on Shifta Critical? I'm curious as to whether or not this is a seriously useful skill-enough to spend ten points in. Would you do more damage putting you points into an elemental skill and using it on an enemy mob? Or would you do more damage giving your party/multiparties a critical boost? Obviously this would be best combined with Territory Boost if I'm not mistaken.

(Gardios's Techer Skill Tree simulator)
http://ryuhiroshi.ry.funpic.de/pso2/techer.html

[Coatl]

I've been thinking about this myself. I'm REALLY indecisive thus far with the techer skill tree. :c

[Crevox]

Initial impressions show that Techer is just worse than Force. There's very little reason to use Techer over Force.

The new dark/wind/light techniques are great. However, they can be used on Force too. So why would you play Techer? Okay, so Techer can specialize into light/dark/wind mastery... however, they only give you a 15-20% increase in damage at max. This still ends up equal or smaller than just getting the tech charge masteries as a Force. They don't have the increased casting speed of Fire or other cool perks of the elements to make them any better as a Techer.

Okay, so what else? You can do more status effects. Panic is borderline useless and it applies extremely often with Gigrants regardless. Poison is nifty, it's pretty rare but the skill is supposed to improve how often it happens. If you're really willing to spend your skill points, you can do a full poison build with ignite, but for what? Anything that CAN be poisoned can be killed relatively easily. Anything that would be useful to poison is immune to it. The most useful thing I've seen get poisoned is a Caterdran, and building an entire skill tree around killing Caterdrans is not exactly a good idea.

So, what else? You get a stronger resta. Resta heals enough as it is (if geared properly, 200+ minimum, 300+ with buffs) per tick. The increase isn't all that great, but if you want it, I guess you could. A resta will already fully heal most people unless they're an HP build, and HP builds are not a good idea. Resta leads into a skill that increases PP recovery rate, which is actually pretty effective, but you need to spend a LOT of points you could spend elsewhere just to get to it and then improve it. Furthermore, it's just offsetting the loss of the ability to recharge PP while casting techniques, something Force CAN do. Their weapon is also slower than Force, resulting in a lower PP generation rate. You can also go for PP convert, but good luck - it requires a LOT of points in skills you probably don't want (tech defense).

So, what else? You have the wand gear. Wand gear is OK, but the weapon purposely attacks slower because of this skill. You can do decent melee damage with it, but you're getting less PP over time because the wand attacks slower than rods. This means a longer amount of time before you can start casting spells again, and that's where your real damage is. Not to mention the fact that the element of the tech explosion is based on your weapon, so you can't adjust dynamically based on the enemy you're fighting... you have to get multiple weapons or pick one element.

So far, as far as I'm concerned, everything Techer can do, Force does better. So what are we left with? The top of the skill tree you have the buffs. Yep, this seems to be the only redeeming factor here. If these buffs actually great a substantial benefit (the only numbers I know are +10% on deband/shifta effectiveness) then they're actually really good. Shifta increases critical rate and Deband decreases damage to a fixed rate. These go in hand with territorial boost, a skill that increases the range of your buffs, which means it's easier to buff. The negative thing here is if you max both buffs, you don't have enough to get past rank 1-2 of territorial boost. Not only that, if you max both buffs and get territorial boost, you're left with no skill points for anything offensive... you're a walking buff bot. This isn't horrible at the cost of decreased damage output, but this is what the class is left with.

Techer remains disappointing. Force does more damage, and the only thing it can do better than Force is buff. It would've made sense if only Techer could use wind/dark/light (which would make be sad, but it would make sense) but Force can use them too. They're great techniques and Force does more damage with them. When subclassing rolls around, we might be able to do some nifty stuff with Techer as a sub for Force, but Techer as a main (right now and in the future) seems pointless (beyond buffs). I understand Force is meant to do more damage than Techer, but... if you ATTEMPT to skill yourself for damage on this class, you just fall short. Always. There's no reason to try, despite there being skills for damage, and that's my point. It's not worth the points. You're better off just going buffs and that's it. More than half the skill tree is useless.

These are just initial impressions of the class itself as a main class. We still don't even know the semantics/mechanics of how subclasses will function, so the rest of the class could be useful somehow.

It's just disappointing that light and dark passives end up being the same/worse than the other class just getting generic damage passives for all elements. You can't specialize in those elements even in its own class (you can, but a generic all element build is better).

So, at the moment, that seems to be the general build idea? Poison build (lol) or all buff/support build with choices between:

1. All shifta/deband
2. Resta + 1 buff of choice
3. Resta + PP skills
4. Some other combination

I do think building your class around Poison is silly though. It's cool, don't get me wrong, and I would be tempted to try it... but it ends up weak against the majority of the game. The same thing that you're doing on the quartz dragon (melt armor) or the caterdrans (it hurts a lot) can be accomplished with a wand with the "poison" skill. There's also the fact that skill trees are so expensive in this game that if you try it and you don't like it... you're stuck, and that's kind of risky. Anything else that you poison could just be nuked and would die, or will die before poison even happens.

[Courina]

they are battle cleric anyway... im not expect they gonna throw alot spell like force...

so yea... in my optinion, shifta advance and shifta critical is too precious to left not full... dunno for deband and deband cut... since most of time dodge things better than taking damage (especialy gunner, with gunner gear reset even with scratch)

now... my question is... the PP restore thingy at bottom of the grantz tree... how it works? increase your pp gain each hit? or just idle regen?

[Crevox]

they are battle cleric anyway... im not expect they gonna throw alot spell like force...

so yea... in my optinion, shifta advance and shifta critical is too precious to left not full... dunno for deband and deband cut... since most of time dodge things better than taking damage (especialy gunner, with gunner gear reset even with scratch)

now... my question is... the PP restore thingy at bottom of the grantz tree... how it works? increase your pp gain each hit? or just idle regen?

I don't know the numbers on the second shifta passive or deband to know really. The first one is +10%, which could mean... multiple things really. We also don't know if it only affects yourself or everyone. Everyone is assumed, but who knows.

Battle cleric yes, but if you try to specialize in damage for battle cleric, you will simply fall short. You are right in the fact that the buffs seem to be pretty much essential, otherwise it's just a worse Force.

There's two PP things at the bottom of the Grants tree. The left one just increases regen, the right one converts max HP into PP.

[Tenlade]

Trying out techer it seems to be a really odd melee cleric. Once got wand gear filled the bar during a boss fight, I was doing some very decent damage against dark ragne, faster then I could even do spamming techs. I think my wand even induced status effects a few times on the dagans.
With boosted shifta and deband, and a need to be in the front line to even buff your hunters, I could see this basically being an effective melee mage. We need to wait a week until some people level however, and find out just how well damage scaling on wands turns out.

[Crevox]

I was doing some very decent damage against dark ragne, faster then I could even do spamming techs.

If you lock on his brain, you can nuke it with Grants the entire fight (or even Gimegid now that we have that). You don't even have to knock him over to lock onto it. This is far better DPS than other options we have, including melee.

It doesn't help that the gear is bugged and sometimes the additional tech damage doesn't apply (at least, the numbers don't show up).

[Tenlade]

If you lock on his brain, you can nuke it with Grants the entire fight (or even Gimegid now that we have that). You don't even have to knock him over to lock onto it. This is far better DPS than other options we have, including melee.
But attacking the brain directly you risk killing it before all the legs are broken, which means less drops if I remember correctly.

[moeri]

http://ryuhiroshi.ry.funpic.de/pso2/techer.html?01TE!IOI24OdFfqnsNHNj

My currently planned build, going for the some support skills and the PP skill

If sub classes work by using both skill trees then I think pp revival + this pp skill will have ridiculous synergy

I took the support skills because they just seem the most appealing so far besides the pp

I took wand gear... just because

The next 10 points would go into shifta advance + shifta critical

light tree also looks good because of all the darkers

[Crevox]

light tree also looks good because of all the darkers

Light Mastery is the only skill that does anything here, which is the same damage increase as tech charge advance in normal Force, but I guess it's useful if you're staying Techer...


But attacking the brain directly you risk killing it before all the legs are broken, which means less drops if I remember correctly.

If you're looking to break all the legs. I still think spamming Gigrants would result in higher damage output, especially with the ability to get PP while charging and using your mag ability/photon blast, but shrug. You would also have to be using a fire or light wand in this situation for optimal damage, which isn't always the case unless you purposely buy one with that element (or find one).

[gigawuts]

Oh man what is this tree, I don't even

Seriously what

If they wanted to pigeonhole players into dark or support they should have just added Techer1 and Techer2

[Blundy]

so do we know what mirage does? well besides turn them green.

[Crevox]

so do we know what mirage does? well besides turn them green.

Makes enemies sometimes miss with attacks.

[MaryShelley]

Here's what i'm probably going to do. Max the first talent for attack up, throw the three into deband, max light mastery, 5 into resta advance, max pp restraint, 7 into shifta advance (not sure the numbers on the critical so just left that empty).

I'm only going to use light spells with cards. I play the same way on force as it is, so no change for me.

So what's this doing? I'm replacing the PP charge with PP restraint so that should even out. I'm maxing light mastery which should even out the damage loss from the Force charge. Then i'm taking super shifta to push my damage up higher. I also get a bit stronger of a deband. The Resta is just icing on the cake really. I'm not a healer, i'm just here to heal myself. If I can heal myself up without charging resta, more power to me.

What do I expect? The same or maybe a little more damage from using cards/light tech. A stronger non-charge heal, and a stronger shifta/deband. I DON'T expect this to do more damage than a force, I DO think this class is a better fit for me since I only really use cards and light techs anyway.

[Crevox]

Here's what i'm probably going to do. Max the first talent for attack up, throw the three into deband, max light mastery, 5 into resta advance, max pp restraint, 7 into shifta advance (not sure the numbers on the critical so just left that empty).

I'm only going to use light spells with cards. I play the same way on force as it is, so no change for me.

So what's this doing? I'm replacing the PP charge with PP restraint so that should even out. I'm maxing light mastery which should even out the damage loss from the Force charge. Then i'm taking super shifta to push my damage up higher. I also get a bit stronger of a deband. The Resta is just icing on the cake really. I'm not a healer, i'm just here to heal myself. If I can heal myself up without charging resta, more power to me.

What do I expect? The same or maybe a little more damage from using cards/light tech. A stronger non-charge heal, and a stronger shifta/deband. I DON'T expect this to do more damage than a force, I DO think this class is a better fit for me since I only really use cards and light techs anyway.

As long as you stack light mastery (and get tatk), you should do more damage than force with the enhanced shifta (with light). The damage increase won't be much (if any, and you need to keep shifta on), but it's something. :)

This is of course if you're using cards; wands do less damage than rods which would make Force better, but card is the same on both (besides slightly reduced base tatk). :)

I'm glad you found a good fit!

[Blundy]

http://ryuhiroshi.ry.funpic.de/pso2/techer.html?01TE!IOI2GBdqGKIx8

That's probably what i'm looking at, i like windspells and i'm probably going to be in their face with wand gear anyways so my recharge can probably be just whacking them.

Since my mag's ability+ tech defense (i like changing classes) that 100 tech up is a godsend, 50 more than i would otherwise have on force even.

Edit: Fixed link

[Crevox]

So I put points into the shifta buff increase and checked the stats before and after.

I got a whopping +1atk from putting 2 points into the skill. +1satk, +1ratk, +1tatk. 1 point didn't change my stats at all.

Yay.

[Blundy]

So I put points into the shifta buff increase and checked the stats before and after.

I got a whopping +1atk from putting 3 points into the skill. +1satk, +1ratk, +1tatk.

Yay.


if i remember correctly it buffs shifta's stat boost by a percentage, i think its 10% at max but i'm not sure if thats the correct amount and/if that would be any good.

[Crevox]

if i remember correctly it buffs shifta's stat boost by a percentage, i think its 10% at max but i'm not sure if thats the correct amount and/if that would be any good.

I have 830 t.ATK and it's giving me +1 stat for putting 2 points (+2% buff effectiveness) into it. That means 10 points would be +5 atk. If I was my force, I would have around 1400 t.ATK (less than double of what I have now), so at most I would be seeing a benefit of +10 atk.

Oh boy.

So, until further notice, I HIGHLY RECOMMEND AGAINST specializing in the first two skills any further than what is required to advance the tree.

[Hrith]

Yeah, the only worthwhile boost to Shifta and Deband would be duration boosts.

[Crevox]

Yeah, the only worthwhile boost to Shifta and Deband would be duration boosts.

The other two skills are fine. Shifta is (at least) a +10% crit chance boost to everyone, and Deband decreases all damage received by 10% for everyone.

These are good buffs, though arguably not worth the skill points... but honestly, nothing really is worth the skill points (it's really hard to find anything good about this class).

Territorial boost seems to only increase in duration (of the skill) per point, not in range nor cooldown reduction. 1-2 points is fine, whatever you're comfortable with... beyond that, convenience. It's not even that big of a range boost...

[Dammy]

oh, can anyone explain me some things about crit please
how +crit % chance works?
for example, if someone has 22% , it will be 22+10 = 32 or 22+2 (10%) = 24 ?
how much basic crit we have anyway? only crit increase i can remember is in Hunter skill tree
and how strong are criticals comparing to other attacks?
so far im thinking that even shifta critical not worth it

[Crevox]

oh, can anyone explain me some things about crit please
how +crit % chance works?
for example, if someone has 22% , it will be 22+10 = 32 or 22+2 (10%) = 24 ?
how much basic crit we have anyway? only crit increase i can remember is in Hunter skill tree
and how strong are criticals comparing to other attacks?
so far im thinking that even shifta critical not worth it

We don't really know because there's no reliable way to see or measure it. As for damage, they hit for the max of your min-max damage range.

And yeah, it's not worth it, but what else is? Nothing is worth it. This class seems to be intended as a subclass to force and nothing else.

Next thing I'm gonna look at is PP convert when more info is posted on JP sites. PP restraint is GOOD (+40% recovery rate of PP) but takes a LOT of points to even reach, and it's just PP regen... something that you're lacking already because you don't have that 1 point Force has into the recovery while charging.

Final redemption for this class is in a heavy PP build with convert and restraint... otherwise it's only good for subclassing (maybe).

[jooozek]

No charge PP revival? Guess I won't bother with Techer :sleepy:

[Mystil]

No charge PP revival? Guess I won't bother with Techer :sleepy:

Wind techs are very PP efficient.

[HunterFusion]

I was thinking of going for the whole PP restraint to max and then max out the dark mastery and add poison boost to +5 or increase the damage instead and added the wand gear. Yet I'm testing a lot of stuff out and some nice advice is always good since I'll be getting a another skill set up for techer later in the future.

http://ryuhiroshi.ry.funpic.de/pso2/techer.html?01TE!IOI2Abdqf4NqnHNIkf

Since there's so many ways to be a techer

-Going Full Support
-Hybrid Wind and Dark
- PP booster
- Damage Dealer
and such.

I say would recommend wind techs since they do wide area aoe in front, while I recommend dark techs for damage dealing support on single large targets.

[Hrith]

No charge PP revival? Guess I won't bother with Techer :sleepy:There are PP restore skills, though.

All this will be solved when we get subclasses, which I think greatly accounts for the design.

Techer sounds a lot more like what I want of a technique class. Now if only the duration of S/D could be increased...

[Crevox]

Since there's so many ways to be a techer

There's really not. I'm having trouble finding a single way to go about it. No matter which way you go, it is completely inferior to Force. I thought buff boosts were the saving grace of the class, but it turns out those are really bad too.

Full support? You'll get a max of +10 to stats for adding those 20 points into buffs. If you max deband cut and shifta critical, you're gonna have a hard time getting anything else. Resta advance seems to go to 20% at max (maybe 15%). If you're healing for 250, then at most you'll be healing for 300 instead... not much of a boost for the large number of skill points you have to spend, and not much more of a gain than you'd get if you spent them in t.ATK instead (and then you'd actually have damage too!). This is especially not worth it when resta already heals for a really good amount, I don't see a reason in needing much more than what you already have.

Hybrid wind and dark? It's just the masteries. That's +20% damage to wind, +20% damage to dark. It takes a lot of points to access both ends of the tree, and you can get the same boost to ALL spells as a Force through Tech Charge bonus skills, AND they're on the same side of the tree. Force will simply do more damage with these elements because Rods are better for spellcasting (more t.atk), higher base t.atk, more PP (you can't get the PP passives if you get those masteries), etc. You also end up ignoring anything that is possibly unique or cool about this class (PP restoration / buffs).

PP build maybe. Still don't have numbers on convert. I honestly don't think many people have bothered to spend the ridiculous amount of points to get to it (especially since you have to put them in stupid skills like tech defense). Restraint is really good though.


All this will be solved when we get subclasses, which I think greatly accounts for the design.

Techer sounds a lot more like what I want of a technique class. Now if only the duration of S/D could be increased...


It really does seem like it was designed as a subclass. :\ I don't understand how anyone could like techer. The design idea was cool, and I was hyped for it, but this skill tree is terrible. Really, really bad.


Wind techs are very PP efficient.

All the more reason to use them on Force instead of Techer.

I know it seems like I'm hating on the class, but it's for good reason; I honestly can't find anything good about it. I'm hoping someone will step forward with a good idea or a build that gives the class a reason to exist. Honestly I think subclassing/restraint/convert will save this class, if anything. Though, any of the skills that looked good on paper (shifta advance) ended up being garbage in practice, so who knows... need some people that specced restraint or convert to step forth and give us some details.

[TaigaUC]

I agree, it really feels like it was designed as a subclass. I think it'd work better if the tree wasn't set up in such a horrible way.
I particularly hate being forced to waste lots of points in crap that nobody will ever have any use for, just to get stuff that is necessary to be functional.

[eharima]

Ranger with sub techer shifta boosts OH YES

[Crevox]

Ranger with sub techer shifta boosts OH YES

This is PSO1 all over again...

[IzzyData]

This is PSO1 all over again...

PSO2

It's almost like a coincidence.

[Crevox]

PSO2

It's almost like a coincidence.

No kidding!

[IzzyData]

Anyone know if Wand gear explosions have increases to elemental damage if I used dark and have 10/10 dark mastery?

[Crevox]

Anyone know if Wand gear explosions have increases elemental damage if I used dark and have 10/10 dark mastery?

I guess it technically should, only way we would know is if someone tested it.

[Mystil]

There's really not. I'm having trouble finding a single way to go about it. No matter which way you go, it is completely inferior to Force.

I read your whole post, but I wanna just touch on this bit here:

I believe the whole point of techer, is SEGA's answer to a true full support class. It is not meant to be stronger than Force in terms of damage.

[Slidikins]

Full support? You'll get a max of +10 to stats for adding those 20 points into buffs. If you max deband cut and shifta critical, you're gonna have a hard time getting anything else. Resta advance seems to go to 20% at max (maybe 15%). If you're healing for 250, then at most you'll be healing for 300 instead... not much of a boost for the large number of skill points you have to spend, and not much more of a gain than you'd get if you spent them in t.ATK instead (and then you'd actually have damage too!). This is especially not worth it when resta already heals for a really good amount, I don't see a reason in needing much more than what you already have.
If I recall correctly the difference between Shifta LvX and LvX+1 is 1% power as well, so isn't every point into Shifta and Deband (not Critical/Cut) essentially another level of the technique? Meaning that Techer buffs are up to 10 levels higher than their Force counterparts?

Resta's harder to sell, but I'm hoping there will be a boss so vicious that you only have time for 1-2 ticks of Resta before moving. In that case, the extra HP from Techer is also helpful.

I'm getting the feeling that people, including you, are seeing things through a DPS tunnelvision. Every class is expected to kill, sure, but PSO1 was never about every class being a DPS King. On challenge mode you had to play to your strengths, for instance. Rangers focused on status effects over deeps. Techer was announced as "a high powered healer who holds the strength to battle along the front lines." They are built to go into sticky situations and make sure everyone else is buffed and alive. If they have wiggle room, they empty their wand gear with some melee on the boss they're standing next to. That's how I'm reading into it.

If you expect Techer to be some sort of damage boss on its own, you're probably going to be disappointed.

[Gama]

honeslty it feels like techer is a bit more balanced then force, they survive a bit better, have more hp, and with wand gear they kick ass if they dont have pp.

[Volta]

I could see the uncharged version of Resta becoming useful with Advance applied. Not only would it help in sticky situations (I have died way too often to an enraged Banshee due to lack of time to heal) but it would help increase DPS due to only needing to cast the uncharged version in between attacks.

What Techer really needs is a skill that increases the number of "ticks" Resta/S/D do, as a pseudo duration/range buff. Wish the SD range buff applied to Resta too.

[Spellbinder]

This is totally off topic so I apologize, but where are people getting PP Restraint from? Looking at the Japanese it puzzles me how the translator managed to stick an 'n' in there. "PP Restorate" (in my humble opinion) sounds better and makes sense considering the skill is helping "restore" PP, not "restrain" it.

[Crevox]

I believe the whole point of techer, is SEGA's answer to a true full support class. It is not meant to be stronger than Force in terms of damage.

The benefits of the support are minimal. The first two shifta/deband passive buffs are borderline useless (+10 stats). The second two are good, but cost the majority of your skill points. You're left with a 20% better resta if you don't get those and a boost to range on your support skills for a short time every 2 minutes...

This is not really a big benefit... they should've had buff duration or at least a PASSIVE range increase. The second two buffs aren't even that great, +10% crit chance and -10% damage taken at the cost of 20 skill points (+ more if you had to go down a side of the skill tree you didn't want to). They're still hard to apply and short duration.


If I recall correctly the difference between Shifta LvX and LvX+1 is 1% power as well, so isn't every point into Shifta and Deband (not Critical/Cut) essentially another level of the technique? Meaning that Techer buffs are up to 10 levels higher than their Force counterparts?

It boosts the power of the technique by the %. I tested it personally in game and the stat increase is minimal to none. I gave info on this earlier (quote below):


I have 830 t.ATK and it's giving me +1 stat for putting 2 points (+2% buff effectiveness) into it. That means 10 points would be +5 atk. If I was my force, I would have around 1400 t.ATK (less than double of what I have now), so at most I would be seeing a benefit of +10 atk.

Oh boy.

So, until further notice, I HIGHLY RECOMMEND AGAINST specializing in the first two skills any further than what is required to advance the tree.

It's just really bad. It boosts the effectiveness of the buff by a %, multiplicative, not additive. I would go as far as to call it a bug because of how bad it is, but SEGA seems to be really against any kind of balance changes, and if they change the effectiveness of a skill without giving us a reset... sigh...


If you expect Techer to be some sort of damage boss on its own, you're probably going to be disappointed.

Oh I'm not. I'm trying to find the positives of the class. It's intended to do less damage, that much is obvious, however the support side is terrible. The stat increase on the buffs is nothing, the range increase isn't passive, no duration increase, SMALL heal increase... blah blah blah. The range increase for that SHORT time with Territorial Boost isn't even that big. If they wanted it to be a support class they could have done a lot more to make it a support class, instead we're stuck with a lot of pointless skills and support skills that do next to nothing to make you better at support.


honeslty it feels like techer is a bit more balanced then force, they survive a bit better, have more hp, and with wand gear they kick ass if they dont have pp.

If we don't have PP, we get it back. We use a gunslash, we use a card, or we whack the mob in the face. The wand weapon for techer attacks SLOWLY, getting PP back slowly, making it take longer for us to start casting spells again (including support). This is a negative. I have the wand gear and I'm using the microphone event item on techer because it's a rod, and it's just better. More tech attack, faster attack speed (better PP generation), and just feels less clunky. As a techer I could pull out a card or a gunslash to start getting PP back, but then what the heck is the point of the wand? I don't think the gear's damage output makes up for the fact that you're getting PP back at a snail rate; at this point, I think it's a personal opinion thing, but if I was playing as a support, I would rather get PP back to heal my friends quicker than deal a little extra damage to that oodan.

Yeah, they have more defense, but it's just personal taste at this point that I'd rather have the offense. The defense isn't a bad thing.


I could see the uncharged version of Resta becoming useful with Advance applied.

20% increase on resta. If your uncharged resta heals for 67, it will heal for 13 more for the cost of 10 skill points. Woo. I honestly think that maxing the tech attack passive will give you similar results and provide a more general benefit (more damage on spells and wand gear!).


What Techer really needs is a skill that increases the number of "ticks" Resta/S/D do, as a pseudo duration/range buff. Wish the SD range buff applied to Resta too.

Now THIS is support. We need more range passively, we need duration boost on our buffs... etc. For a class that's dedicated to making our support skills better, this is pretty darn sloppy. I GUESS I can understand a lack of a duration increase if they intend for you to run around and just buff people all day in the party, but that clearly wasn't their intent when you whacking stuff in the face with a wand. It's just annoying, and the buffs are barely any better than if you were Force. The range increase of territorial boost doesn't even help when you have 4 people all fighting dragons hitting it on different sides, you still gotta run around and buff each person one by one. PSO1 still had better buff ranges than this.

Territorial boost does affect resta, but again... territorial boost is just annoying. It has a cast animation to turn on the buff, lasts a short time unless you pump skill points, and has a cooldown. If a bunch of people near me are hurt, I don't want to spend the time to cast a self buff, I need to get over there and heal them.



This is totally off topic so I apologize, but where are people getting PP Restraint from? Looking at the Japanese it puzzles me how the translator managed to stick an 'n' in there. "PP Restorate" (in my humble opinion) sounds better and makes sense considering the skill is helping "restore" PP, not "restrain" it.

My initial thought was the same, but I shrug. English patch people/google translate/blahblahblah translated it as restraint.

[Sp-24]

I doubt that uncharged Resta, or any other technique for that matter, will ever become useful. Resta Advance is a multiplier, and multiplying a pitiful number even by 1.5 won't make it any good. In fact, I'm sure that even if you combine Normal Tech Advance and Resta Advance, uncharged Resta will still suck ass.

[Crevox]

I doubt that uncharged Resta, or any other technique for that matter, will ever become useful. Resta Advance is a multiplier, and multiplying a pitiful number even by 1.5 won't make it any good. In fact, I'm sure that even if you combine Normal Tech Advance and Resta Advance, uncharged Resta will still suck ass.

My guess is that hunter/etc will use uncharged techniques when they subclass Force, and they can't charge their techniques. To me at least, it makes sense.

[Sp-24]

My guess is that hunter/etc will use uncharged techniques when they subclass Force, and they can't charge their techniques. To me at least, it makes sense.

That would be just horrible. Shifta, Deband and Anti would be the only usable techniques that way...

But yeah, that's one way how they can "balance" tech-casting subclasses.

[Daemyn]

I'm overall depressed at techer class :| but I'm gonna dabble a bit in convert hp to pp for fun before I completely quit the class.

Thankfully my mag is a hybrid I'm going to hunter then fighter after I am done messing around a bit.

[Crevox]

That would be just horrible. Shifta, Deband and Anti would be the only usable techniques that way...

But yeah, that's one way how they can "balance" tech-casting subclasses.

I agree, but it just kinda seems like that's what they have planned. It's not like casting Foie as a HUmar was ever that great anyways...

[Slidikins]

Oh I'm not. I'm trying to find the positives of the class. It's intended to do less damage, that much is obvious, however the support side is terrible. The stat increase on the buffs is nothing, the range increase isn't passive, no duration increase, SMALL heal increase... blah blah blah. The range increase for that SHORT time with Territorial Boost isn't even that big. If they wanted it to be a support class they could have done a lot more to make it a support class, instead we're stuck with a lot of pointless skills and support skills that do next to nothing to make you better at support.I haven't unlocked the class yet so I'm relying on the wikis (rather than reading it word-for-word in game), but this sounds like a letdown all around. The only reason I'm unlocking Techer is so I can go support Ranger/Techer in October, but all of these skill points seem wasted. According to you, the few worth getting have a huge investment. (Not to mention that with enough Ability critical hits are meaningless.)

Hopefully there's a silver lining somewhere or that SEGA messed up and will address it soon.

[Gen2000]

Oh man, I haven't started Techer but I was having so much fun with Fighters and Gunner and I was hoping the trend would continue with Techer but glancing over the Techer's Skill Tree and looking through here is pretty depressing for the class, lol.

[Crevox]

Why did this get moved to guides? We're having a discussion here on a class :|

[Sp-24]

This is the subforum for gameplay discussion.

[TaigaUC]

I always thought maxed out uncharged Resta was pretty decent for a quick self heal.

I don't agree with the "Techer is meant to be a support class" argument. If that was the case, they wouldn't have any attack skills. There are a ton of ways to make a true support class, and Techer isn't how I'd go about it.

The skill trees are supposed to encourage different playstyles, and a maxed-out Techer (or any class) should be able to excel if they specialize correctly. Crevox is trying to point out that Techer CAN'T excel, especially when compared to Force.

[Tenlade]

A techer can get a minor pp regen boost, and a very minor buff boost and a temporary buff range boost (why is this even temporary?!). Note that shifta and deband's duration will expire before you can increase your buff range again, leaving a whole 20-30 seconds where that skill is literally useless, unless you cast the buff multiple times, which wastes even more pp.

A force can regen pp while casting resta/buffs, and with the fire tech tree Shifta gets its charge time cut in half, making it much more easier to cast on your hunter before he starts dashing away into the enemy's face.

A force can support better then the class designed to support. This is because sega failed math, and doesn't realize how out of whack their percentages are (20% damge boost is balanced to a fire tech that can cast at twice the speed right?[and also get 20% boost])
Also resta is still garbage, because it takes several ticks to fully heal when some higher level bosses can ohko and it takes to long to charge up, meaning by the time i get to heal them, they've already downed a dimate.

Resta is still useless, because it does not heal all at once and has a huge charge and range delay, meaning by the time i get it powered up to heal my friends, they've already downed a dimate.

Sega fix your damn game.

[chihiro]

Was hoping to see any information on PP Convert. Since PP charge remains 0 when you are charging a tech it would seem to make more sense to use an ability that manually refills pp rather than one that forces you to wait, but this all depends on how much hp it costs and what the gains are for maxing it out. Whether it reduces c/d, decreases hp cost, increases pp gain or does a combination of these are all unknown to me.

[Zorafim]

I'm surprised nobody seems to be looking at how amazing a sub class techer would be. As fire force, quick Rafoie casts would charge up wand gear quickly. Then the PP restoring abilities will allow you to get more Rafoies out before you need to charge up. So, you're switching between charged wand strikes and rafoies.

Then there's Ranger. Most boss fights, I'm just waiting around, hoping people are pounding on my weak shot while I regen PP. With PP restore, I'm able to use more PAs at this point. Plus, ranger's PAs do much more damage than their normal attacks, and they're always passively regenerating PP, so this should fit ranger really well. Especially since gunner doesn't really have any good skills for it.

Of course, I don't know how good the PP restoring abilities are. I also notice there's not enough points to get those, and get wand gear. So, I need to ask. How good is wand gear? Is it worth getting if I need to sacrifice PP convert (which nobody seems to know how good it is)?

[Slidikins]

I'm surprised nobody seems to be looking at how amazing a sub class techer would be.I think it's just an unspoken known that sub-Techer is awesome. But that's a month off, so we're focused on how to make Techer worthwhile in the meantime.

[Sp-24]

I'm surprised nobody seems to be looking at how amazing a sub class techer would be.

Actually, people have been saying that Techer is only good for subclassing for some time now. In this very thread, no less.

The biggest problem right now is that subclass system isn't implemented yet, and as a stand alone class Techer seems to be very underwhelming.

[Zorafim]

Then I'm surprised at how bad I am at reading!

[Gama]

techer seems to have more hp, and i think more defense, also with the gear you get to do allot nore damage over time, i wish we had faster heals and a range boost without a skill tree item.

[Tenlade]

Honestly? Even as a subclass, a force would be better off picking ranger. Rifles would give a better pp recharge rate, and if you get weak bullet....

[Sp-24]

Honestly? Even as a subclass, a force would be better off picking ranger. Rifles would give a better pp recharge rate, and if you get weak bullet....

Rifles are inferior to gunblades at the whole PP recharge business (I have a bouquet, so I know), so the only thing Ranger subclass really has is Weak Bullet. And as awesome as Weak Bullet is, I'm not sure if one skill can beat a whole skill tree of goodies, even a tree as unimpressive as Techer's.

[FallingGuy]

The thing is, that dark techniques are strong, but most of the time useless on enemies because the attacks are so slow and easy for enemies to dodge (Except the main basic one, which is homing). I'm not that far in the game yet, but when you restart, the only enemies that have weakness to dark element is the rare Rappy and one part on the Vol Dragon's body (I dunno for the rest of the game, but up to level 33, it's remotely useless).

Thus said, the poison status seems rather strong by itself though.

Wind...How do I start...It is weak, but low PP consumption, which means you have to wait less long to cast it again, and that you can cast it more times before running out of PP. With the area-of-effect one, you can basically do a lawnmower attack and chain them without leaving a single moment where the enemy doesn't get hurt...But sadly, it's ridiculous damage unless you land the last hit of the "tornado", that is if the enemy didn't move out of the way already before it. But personally, I like it for low PP consumption. So far, I've only seen the natives being weak to wind so far though.

I'm hesitating which mastery I should concentrate on ; Wind or Light (I'll probably go for light), since light is strong as well, and I'm much more of a solo-support person), along with the Shifta and Deband buffs. I don't know much about the class yet, but I'm still eager to see what it can do.

[Slidikins]

Rifles are inferior to gunblades at the whole PP recharge business (I have a bouquet, so I know), so the only thing Ranger subclass really has is Weak Bullet. And as awesome as Weak Bullet is, I'm not sure if one skill can beat a whole skill tree of goodies, even a tree as unimpressive as Techer's.Additionally, if you have 3+ points in Weak Bullet then you're locked to Assault Rifle for 15+ seconds or you lose bullets. A Force would want to switch back to Rod to take advantage, of course.

Anyway, most people mean to subclass Techer with non-Forces. I'm looking at Ranger/Techer myself. For Hunters, Fighters, Rangers, and Gunners Techer is looking like a great hybrid option.

[Tenlade]

Rifles are inferior to gunblades at the whole PP recharge business (I have a bouquet, so I know), so the only thing Ranger subclass really has is Weak Bullet. And as awesome as Weak Bullet is, I'm not sure if one skill can beat a whole skill tree of goodies, even a tree as unimpressive as Techer's.

All techer's tree does is raise damage of techs, and increase status effects proc (and poison is just more damage,if it even procs on a boss at all). Meanwhile, the person using weakbullet is far outdoing your damage rate by miles

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EOoBaXDK07w
You can cast techs while using the boutquet rifle, and even if you just shot one weak bullet and switched , your dps would still far outrank anything else.

If you're going for raw efficiency and functionality to your group, nothing techer does will ever, ever match the brokenness of weak bullet's currently unnerfed power.the boost to shifta is meager and useless, and again outranked by the damage boost a weakpoint gives, and resta is outclassed by a healing item every class can toss over their shoulder to save others.

If you want to just play techer for the hell of it, by all means go ahead and enjoy it, its not like you need efficiency in this game.

[HFlowen]

Anyone max out territory burst yet? I'm not impressed by it at all.

Ignoring the stupid cooldown, the range boost isn't very good. I'm at level 5 right now and I'm hoping that the range boost improves with level. If it doesn't, there's no point in putting another 5 points into it for another 6 seconds of active time.

[Ana-Chan]

You can cast techs while using the boutquet rifle, and even if you just shot one weak bullet and switched , your dps would still far outrank anything else.

For attack techs, at a massive reduction in damage. While support techs ignore the weapon T-Atk, attack techs don't.

There is that client order to do hard free forest with the gunslash. For fun, I did that as a force. Casting techs was a nightmare in that layout because of no additional T-Atk. I think I was losing about 400 points of damage per cast when compared to using a rod. So test it yourself, cast a tech from the subpalette with a non force weapon and see the difference yourself.

[Slidikins]

Anyone max out territory burst yet? I'm not impressed by it at all.

I have not maxed it personally, but I believe the JP wiki notes that the range is doubled at +10... which is not enough to stretch to the other side of Vol Dragon if you needed to buff people.

[HFlowen]

I have not maxed it personally, but I believe the JP wiki notes that the range is doubled at +10... which is not enough to stretch to the other side of Vol Dragon if you needed to buff people.

I hope so. the range needs to be rather giant for me to take it seriously. I'll keep dumping points into it.

[Tenlade]

For attack techs, at a massive reduction in damage. While support techs ignore the weapon T-Atk, attack techs don't.

There is that client order to do hard free forest with the gunslash. For fun, I did that as a force. Casting techs was a nightmare in that layout because of no additional T-Atk. I think I was losing about 400 points of damage per cast when compared to using a rod. So test it yourself, cast a tech from the subpalette with a non force weapon and see the difference yourself.

due to how much of a damage boost weak bullet does on a part thats already a weakpoint, losing 400 a cast is nothing when im gaining 600 in damage. I think ill go grab some npc's with weakbullet and see if my force does more tech damage with a rod regularly or with a gunslash hitting a weakpoint.

[Tenlade]

Ok, did some testing and well, holy shit weak bullet. I brought an npc knowing it out in free forest, and had the (mis)fortune to find a level 33 boosted Dark Ragne. I tested hitting it with Rafoie on both a rod and gunslash equipped

[SPOILER-BOX]http://i.imgur.com/XJmEV.jpghttp://i.imgur.com/kIEv7.jpg
Damage unassisted with rod, 1017 t atk unassisted,1109 with shifta lvl 9

http://i.imgur.com/o3fIa.jpghttp://i.imgur.com/TxHDB.jpg
damage after weak bullet applied with a gunslash equipped, 578 t atk unassisted, 670 t-atk with lvl 9 shifta.

Pretending i remember how to do % in algebra, comparing a 800 damage attack to a 1300 one, using a gunslash on a weak-point was 62.5% stronger even with 439 less t-atk.[/SPOILER-BOX]

The result is that Sega really needs to learn how to balance shit.

[chihiro]

By investingating a google translate of the japanese wiki ( http://translate.googleusercontent.com/translate_c?act=url&depth=1&hl=en&ie=UTF8&prev=_t&rurl=translate.google.com&sl=ja&tl=en&twu=1&u=http://pso2.swiki.jp/index.php%3F%25E3%2583%2586%25E3%2582%25AF%25E3%25 82%25BF%25E3%2583%25BC&usg=ALkJrhi2wm3P90KN7rBe29rbNJyHiRwlpQ#z51e8aad) it appears that convert pp only increases the recovery of your pp for 30 seconds by a hard number with a hard 2 minute c/d; therefore, I would conjecture that you would also not benefit from this when charging techs.

The available information regarding the level progression of pp convert is not very impressive to me. There is not enough information yet to accurately compare it to pp restraint to see which actually produces more pp over time.

One thing I have noticed is that pp restraint functions as a percent of your pp. I do not know if this is base or total pp. If it is total pp and also benefits from pp boosting equipment and abilities then I would conjecture there would be no comparison between pp restraint and pp convert.

Just for reference it takes 27 skill points to have pp convert at level 10 and 26 skill points to have pp restraint at level 10.

[Zorafim]

Large PP regeneration for 30 seconds? Well, I guess it's good for a burst period. When weak shot is used on a boss, for instance. I'm more noticing how useful that would be on ranger, though. Get full PP > weak shot > PA spam > PP convert > PA spam.

[Spellbinder]

By investingating a google translate of the japanese wiki ( http://translate.googleusercontent.com/translate_c?act=url&depth=1&hl=en&ie=UTF8&prev=_t&rurl=translate.google.com&sl=ja&tl=en&twu=1&u=http://pso2.swiki.jp/index.php%3F%25E3%2583%2586%25E3%2582%25AF%25E3%25 82%25BF%25E3%2583%25BC&usg=ALkJrhi2wm3P90KN7rBe29rbNJyHiRwlpQ#z51e8aad) it appears that convert pp only increases the recovery of your pp for 30 seconds by a hard number with a hard 2 minute c/d; therefore, I would conjecture that you would also not benefit from this when charging techs.

The available information regarding the level progression of pp convert is not very impressive to me. There is not enough information yet to accurately compare it to pp restraint to see which actually produces more pp over time.

One thing I have noticed is that pp restraint functions as a percent of your pp. I do not know if this is base or total pp. If it is total pp and also benefits from pp boosting equipment and abilities then I would conjecture there would be no comparison between pp restraint and pp convert.

Just for reference it takes 27 skill points to have pp convert at level 10 and 26 skill points to have pp restraint at level 10.

Having also just glanced at the wiki (a different wiki).

With regards to PP Restorate:
1.) Base PP recovery for all classes / races is 5 PP per second
2.) This recovery speed is not influenced by how much your max PP is
3.) By Lv 5 of this skill you'll regain 6 PP per second, by Lv 10 of this skill you'll regain 7 PP per second.

PP convert, as you said, adds a fixed amount of PP to your recovery but it looks like the Force PP recovery photon blast in your back pocket every 2 minutes when maxed. (That's just my opinion).

[Ana-Chan]

Ok, did some testing and well, holy shit weak bullet. I brought an npc knowing it out in free forest, and had the (mis)fortune to find a level 33 boosted Dark Ragne. I tested hitting it with Rafoie on both a rod and gunslash equipped

[SPOILER-BOX]http://i.imgur.com/XJmEV.jpghttp://i.imgur.com/kIEv7.jpg
Damage unassisted with rod, 1017 t atk unassisted,1109 with shifta lvl 9

http://i.imgur.com/o3fIa.jpghttp://i.imgur.com/TxHDB.jpg
damage after weak bullet applied with a gunslash equipped, 578 t atk unassisted, 670 t-atk with lvl 9 shifta.

Pretending i remember how to do % in algebra, comparing a 800 damage attack to a 1300 one, using a gunslash on a weak-point was 62.5% stronger even with 439 less t-atk.[/SPOILER-BOX]

The result is that Sega really needs to learn how to balance shit.

It is actually whether they have aimed to balance the earlier game, or if they have aimed for end game balance.

If you look at the future, the gap between a character with a tech weapon and a non tech weapon is only going to increase. Using the information available, the vita forlonce (or whatever it is) is possibly going to have a base T-Atk of 343 and a +10 of 548. We also don't know yet if a putting Force/Techter as a subclass to one of the other 4 will have a T-Atk stat comparable to the Force or Techter. So in the spirit of conjecture, I think that things will balance out more in that situation.

[chihiro]

With regards to PP Restorate:
1.) Base PP recovery for all classes / races is 5 PP per second
2.) This recovery speed is not influenced by how much your max PP is
3.) By Lv 5 of this skill you'll regain 6 PP per second, by Lv 10 of this skill you'll regain 7 PP per second.

I see. I seem to like pp convert more with this information.


PP convert, as you said, adds a fixed amount of PP to your recovery but it looks like the Force PP recovery photon blast in your back pocket every 2 minutes when maxed. (That's just my opinion).

Even force pp recovery photon blast gets recovery interrupt without pp charge :(

Still I would rather have that. Thanks for information!

[Kierto]

Spells onry pewpew:

Main Force, Sub Techer.

Max PP Restorate on Techer.

Everything else Techer is irrelevant. Take elemental mastery to taste (Light = 5 points more, Wind/Zan multi-hits..). Rods onry.

Struggle to see the point right now of Shifta Critical with high * weapons already providing such large Ability mods to reduce the variance as is..

Ultimately pay for new/reset Skill Tree when Sakai and friends decide to revise skills based on 'surprising user feedback' QQ.

[Blundy]

It seems like Zan (the yoyo wind shotgun) is the only spell i've noticed so far that is able to not only multi-hit bosses, but also hit them in multiple places. Each zanblade seems to be treated as a separate spell. You can even shotgun them into a guy. Pretty neat.

[Tenlade]

It is actually whether they have aimed to balance the earlier game, or if they have aimed for end game balance.

If you look at the future, the gap between a character with a tech weapon and a non tech weapon is only going to increase. Using the information available, the vita forlonce (or whatever it is) is possibly going to have a base T-Atk of 343 and a +10 of 548. We also don't know yet if a putting Force/Techter as a subclass to one of the other 4 will have a T-Atk stat comparable to the Force or Techter. So in the spirit of conjecture, I think that things will balance out more in that situation.
My argument was on a force subbing as ranger instead of techer, but a ranger using force/techer secondary would most likely be using their primary PAs for damage.

note that even with a large 473 difference in T-atk, the attack still did an overly absurd level of damage in comparison. It also shows that the +100ish t-atk boost shifta gave, increased the damage of the gunslash hitting the weakpoint more then it did with the rod not hitting one. So there might be diminishing returns with getting higher and higher T-atk, but I really dont understand how damage mechanics work regarding an enemey's defence and such so I could be wrong.

with higher levels increasing a character's base t-atk, and the future possibility or even stronger shifta levels, the damage gap could actually widen or stay the same, and not decrease.

[Crevox]

Spells onry pewpew:

Main Force, Sub Techer.

Max PP Restorate on Techer.

Everything else Techer is irrelevant. Take elemental mastery to taste (Light = 5 points more, Wind/Zan multi-hits..). Rods onry.

Struggle to see the point right now of Shifta Critical with high * weapons already providing such large Ability mods to reduce the variance as is..

Ultimately pay for new/reset Skill Tree when Sakai and friends decide to revise skills based on 'surprising user feedback' QQ.

See, this person understands how it's going to work. :D High five!

PP restorate remains underwhelming, AGAIN, if it functions like stated. +40% is great, but if it goes from 5/sec -> 7/sec without any decimal or anything... that's as bad as the shifta/deband boost. I mean sure, it's nice, but once again not worth the skill points. If you're subbing techer, then, by all means...

Zan is a REALLY good spell. It absolutely destroys rockbears. Jump in their face and use it and it will hit them really hard, dodge the wind spells coming back to you while continuing to shotgun it; it and everything nearby will die. The only issue with this is if you're fighting him in one of the forest corridors, because those are really tight and Zan will hit the walls. :P

Anyways remember people, we HAVE NO IDEA how subclassing will work. Yeah we have the datamining and stuff, but even that proved incorrect because it wasn't all finalized yet. We could all be assuming we could do this or that but it could just end up that you can't. We'll have to wait and see.

New spells:

Zan - GOOD. Destroys the forest, and hits REALLY HARD still on everything else when shotgunned. Seriously, this technic is ridiculous.
Razan - Low damage, small area, good for launching I guess
Gizan - It says it has high power, but doesn't seem like it. Damage is OK, but it just seems better to use Zan. Pretty low PP cost though.
Sazan - Pulls mobs to center of tornado if it hits them, good area control ability for the rest of the party. Can use to pull mobs in and use another spell on all of them (Zan, Gigrants, Ramegid, Rafoie) and seems to work on everything I've tried so far (moving gwanahdas etc).

Megid - Decent. It's a standard dark nuke, nothing special really. It has good power, I use it to destroy Dragon's horn/back/tail (he became weak to dark/ice). It's not bad, not amazing, it's alright/good. It's what I expect.
Ramegid - Good on large targets. If all the balls hit, it's really good damage. Good for using with a card if you can handle the damage loss. At the moment I use this on Caterdrans (they HATE poison and it actually hurts them really bad) and a select few other big mobs, or whenever I want to (it's a cool spell :)).
Gimegid - High damage, won't hit anything that moves. This is useful on the dragon's horns when you know he's not going to move (broke tail or he's doing something). It's alright, it does more damage than Megid at the cost of the enemy having to sit still... you just need to know the right situation.
Megiverse - Don't have it yet, it's 5 million meseta. :p

NEXT UPDATE:

Next update (October) we should be getting:

New fire technic
SaBarta (icy version of grants)
RaGrants (laser of death)
New lightning technic (it's in the "New Power" update trailer!)
New wind technic (projectile?)
New dark technic.

[SPOnion]

http://ryuhiroshi.ry.funpic.de/pso2/techer.html?01TE!IOI2kbdqIb4NqnHN4QI2

What I'm currently building.

I prefer PP restrain over PP convert because even though there is a 3/s difference I would really appreciate that 30% HP and considering the 120s CD, the 5/s only work a quarter of the time, which seems overall less impressive than the 2/s all time. Besides I could actually get both when the subclasses come out, which happen to be when they also release the 50lv cap.

Then I'll possibly go for FO/Tech and Light everything...

What I'm more concerned is the attributes for a lv 40 Tech. It seems to have a similar melee defense like HU (and a low, low t defense) but if that is the case I cannot even get the 374 armors...as a human...

[gigawuts]

Man tell me about it

<-- FOcast

[Mystil]

Razan's damage is comparable to Sazan. It's not "low damage". Gizan, now that tech is terrible.

[Crevox]

Razan's damage is comparable to Sazan. It's not "low damage". Gizan, now that tech is terrible.

Personally I think Gizan is better than Razan. Maybe more testing required, but shrug. I don't see a use for Razan besides area control, and I prefer Sazan for that purpose.

Sazan is beneficial to all classes in your party, keeping mobs still and leaving them open to AoE. Razan on the other hand disables them but launches them in the air and makes things a mess for other classes. I would be annoyed if someone was spamming Razan on the thing I'm trying to melee.

[Dextro]

Megiverse is essentially a buff.
It creates a little black hole centered around the caster, and anyone standing within it gains a Drain/Vampire/En-drain (whatever you wanna call it) effect on all of their attacks.

The radius is pretty small but the amount drained looks like a % of the damage you deal. I was draining 7-9hp per mechgun bullet, hunters were getting about 30hp per swing. This was at level 20 though, so it might be pretty amazing at lv40/50.

Edit: It also works with Territory Boost.
The enemy you hit does not have to be inside the Megiverse, only the player.
I can't remember whether PAs gain the drain effect....i think they do but I can't remember. I guess i can test that if anyones interested.

[Crevox]

Did you find Megiverse or buy it, and where?

[Dextro]

I don't have it, i'm levelling Gunner.
Teammate bought it for 100k at Lv.9

[varaville]

force is my first/only character at 36 so i decided to try techer...but it doesn't seem all that fun and this thread emphasizes that D: maybe i'll just not touch it's skill tree and hope it gets changed...

[IzzyData]

I don't know why people are expecting to be able to get everything in a skill tree. It is a specialization for a reason. Has anyone played WoW? Were you ever able to be all 3 types of your class at once? No.

[Crevox]

I don't know why people are expecting to be able to get everything in a skill tree. It is a specialization for a reason. Has anyone played WoW? Were you ever able to be all 3 types of your class at once? No.

It's not about wanting everything, it's about wanting nothing. It's all garbage.

[IzzyData]

Good luck to you then. I'm sure you'll do way more damage with no skill points.

[Crevox]

Good luck to you then. I'm sure you'll do way more damage with no skill points.

I'll do way more damage as the other class. If you're trying to deal damage on techer, you're doing it wrong. It's already been stated that no matter which way you put those points in, you will do less damage than Force.

And if you're trying to deal damage as Techer... then why in the world are you playing the class? At that point it's simply Force with less damage and an annoying mechanic you can't disable (no PP while charging).

[IzzyData]

I'm sorry you feel that way. I have been finding techer to deal fantastic close range damage in comparison to an equal level force.

I think you are doing it wrong.

[Crevox]

I'm sorry you feel that way. I have been finding techer to deal fantastic close range damage in comparison to an equal level force.

I think you are doing it wrong.

I don't see how, unless you rushed a mastery that you will get early on and then Force gets an equivalent damage boost in its skills later on. Wand deals less tech damage than a Rod, Techers have lower t.ATK, and wand gear, while useful, is not worth the slow PP generation.

If you're in that specific tight level range where you rushed a mastery to 10 and got it before you could get both tech charge advance, then kudos to you I guess; but, at 40, you WILL deal less damage, unless you derped your skill tree on Force. There is literally no possible way for a Techer to deal more damage at max level besides user error.

If you want to prove all of this wrong, give me numbers; however, the stats we have don't lie. It's all clear as day.

[gigawuts]

What brings force home as a great class isn't even just PP revival (It is amazing for the class though, no understating that), but the element specializations.

Well, barta needed a real specialization, like freeze shatter resistance for frozen mobs or attack duration (extended to barta - barta would last longer and so would gi & ra barta), but foie and zonde are unique because of the charge and pp save skills. I have them both on my FOcast. It's not even about damage, it's about being unique. The Foie tree lets you do things you can't do with the other elements, and zonde can be used much longer than other techs.

A temporary boost to S&D range every so often and slight increases to their buffs, so slight that they may as well not exist, does not a class make. Poison ignition is getting there, but wind needed something special too and so did light. Zonde and foie were thought out and have reasons to get them, poison ignition is a superior freeze ignition, but everything else is just % boosts.

Meh.

In my mind techer was going to have a support tree, then a tree for each element with unique skills for each one. Wind might have had vacuum bonuses, light might have had range bonuses, and dark may have had some kind of a knockdown on its attacks since they don't seem as spammy as others. THAT would have made a real class. Not...20% boosts to everything a force does plus S&D range every couple minutes.

[Crevox]

A temporary boost to S&D range every so often and slight increases to their buffs, so slight that they may as well not exist, does not a class make. Poison ignition is getting there, but wind needed something special too and so did light. Zonde and foie were thought out and have reasons to get them, poison ignition is a superior freeze ignition, but everything else is just % boosts.

Meh.

In my mind techer was going to have a support tree, then a tree for each element with unique skills for each one. Wind might have had vacuum bonuses, light might have had range bonuses, and dark may have had some kind of a knockdown on its attacks since they don't seem as spammy as others. THAT would have made a real class. Not...20% boosts to everything a force does plus S&D range every couple minutes.

Exactly. Every element for Force got nifty side bonuses besides "you do more damage." Light, Dark, and Wind just don't offer that, though dark comes close with poison ignition.

The support side is just too underwhelming to be useful at all.

[AFKei]

I know how underpowered Techer is after skimming through this thread, but what can you do with newly-released content? Imbalances will happen. I'm trying to decide on a build because I can't buy a second skill tree.

Light Build: http://ryuhiroshi.ry.funpic.de/pso2/techer.html?01TE!IOI2kbdsf4NqnHNj
Dark Build: http://ryuhiroshi.ry.funpic.de/pso2/techer.html?01TE!IOI2qAdqf4NjmscF

You might notice there's some leftover points on the Light build. I'm still trying to figure out where to toss them, actually.

[Dammy]

i think problem is that Force can use winds/dark techs too and doing it better, because Techer boosts to them not good enough to switch(even if you max wind tree you got like +20% , you can get same on Force by getting tech charge advance), while Force offer pp charge revival, which is essential and core talent/skill

if they make it like
Force - fire/ice/lightning/support techs
Techer - wind/dark/light/support techs
that would be better i think. like to charge those rafoies? play a force. want to toy with new techs ? play a techer. thats how 2 other new classes work
giving new techs to Force is like giving double saber with its pa to hunter
i fell as we talking about Techer not offering you anything new and unique, not about how weak it is

[Crevox]

I know how underpowered Techer is after skimming through this thread, but what can you do with newly-released content? Imbalances will happen. I'm trying to decide on a build because I can't buy a second skill tree.

Light Build: http://ryuhiroshi.ry.funpic.de/pso2/techer.html?01TE!IOI2kbdsf4NqnHNj
Dark Build: http://ryuhiroshi.ry.funpic.de/pso2/techer.html?01TE!IOI2qAdqf4NjmscF

You might notice there's some leftover points on the Light build. I'm still trying to figure out where to toss them, actually.

The problem is just that SEGA does minimal to any balancing to PSO2... I guess as long as JP agrees then something will be done.

As for your builds...

Light: You only need 3 in Shifta Advance. Don't put anymore.

You could get territory boost for some better heal range, more resta advance for some stronger heals, or dive down to PP convert. Finishing off light mastery will give you a significant damage increase with light too. Shifta critical and deband cut are decent buffs, but really can only be worth it if you dedicate yourself to keeping your buffs on and really have no where else to use points.

Try to decide what you want of those or a mix, and remember: october's update is level 50, so that (should?) be an additional 10 skill points.

Dark: If you're going poison ignition, you're probably going to want to max poison boost but... if you feel you're poisoning enough to reliably use ignition already, I guess you won't need it.

Dark mastery would be a good idea to max too, it's a pretty good damage increase if you do, but again, level 50 will give you more skill points.

In either build, I can't speak on the effectiveness of PP convert as I have not personally used it. Reconsider whether or not you want wand gear as well, as it's a hefty 4 points just to get to it - and you're not touching wind at all.


i fell as we talking about Techer not offering you anything new and unique, not about how weak it is

You're right, but yeah, it IS also weak (in comparison to the standard that has already been set, Force). Even if you specialize in a mastery you still have a lower base t.atk, lower weapon t.atk (rod > wand), etc etc... and for what? Nothing new and nothing good.

[IzzyData]

Don't mind me, just raping face on the front lines with wands and wind techs.

http://ryuhiroshi.ry.funpic.de/pso2/techer.html?01TE!IOI2qn2XcK0

[jooozek]

Mirage boost? Seriously? :-D

[IzzyData]

Mirage boost? Seriously? :-D

yes, Things never attack me while they all have mirage debuff so it isn't that big of a deal being in melee range with low defense. The only other worthwhile thing could be t-atk or pp boost. Neither were really necessary because i don't run out of pp when using wind techs and I have no issues with t-atk requirements as a newman.

[Crevox]

yes, Things never attack me while they all have mirage debuff so it isn't that big of a deal being in melee range with low defense.

I don't think you know what mirage does...

Did you even test Shifta Advance? It gives you very little t.ATK, like, about 5 points at your level.

Wind Mastery level 10 is equivalent to Tech Charge Advance x2, so you're the same as Force in that department (except, you know, Force gets applied to all elements and not just one).

Shifta Critical is nice, though unnecessary if you get a rare weapon (yay hidden ability mod).

Wand Gear is wand gear. Already covered that so many times.

Thank you for proving you don't know what you're talking about. :) Force will do more damage than you even with that build. I mean, I don't want to be mean, but please don't tell me I'm wrong when you obviously didn't even take any time to run the numbers.

[IzzyData]

I don't think you know what mirage does...

Pretty much decreases aggro. I don't seem to ever get focused or attacked when they have the debuff on them.



Did you even test Shifta Advance? It gives you very little t.ATK, like, about 5 points at your level.

While it is not a huge buff at this level it will be more so in the future and the points are better allocated there than going halfway into the other side of the tree with techs that I wont be using.



Wind Mastery level 10 is equivalent to Tech Charge Advance x2, so you're the same as Force in that department (except, you know, Force gets applied to all elements and not just one).

Doesn't make any difference if you are only using wind techs.



Shifta Critical is nice, though unnecessary if you get a rare weapon (yay hidden ability mod).

Rare weapons gives 1.25 times dexterity which in know way negates the need for this stat. With an increase of 20% critical chance it will be far superior than simply having a rare weapon.



Wand Gear is wand gear. Already covered that so many times.

Wand gear is absolutely amazing and I can see you aren't utilizing techer to their abilities and are instead trying to play it as a force.



Thank you for proving you don't know what you're talking about. :) Force will do more damage than you even with that build. I mean, I don't want to be mean, but please don't tell me I'm wrong when you obviously didn't even take any time to run the numbers.

Thank you for proving you are incredibly immature and don't understand the first thing about class differences and specialization. Seriously, stop playing techer if you think it sucks so much.

[Darki]

Thank you for proving you don't know what you're talking about. :) Force will do more damage than you even with that build. I mean, I don't want to be mean, but please don't tell me I'm wrong when you obviously didn't even take any time to run the numbers.

Sorry if I interrupt your argument, but...

Why do people expect Techer to deal more, or the same damage than a force? Techer is the supportive class of the game, and the fact that most people here are DPS-tards that only care about dealing T3H NUM84RZ makes me believe that the ones who have no fuclking idea of what you're talking about, and how RPGs work, are you.

If you're so dissapointed about your NUM84RZ5 as Techer, you should just go back to Force and be happy with it, that's the idea, dude. I doubt you're being forced to play Techer with a gun pointed at your forehead. You know, I tested Techer and I didn't like it, so I went back to Force and enjoying all the new techs and their NUM84RZ5. Can't you do the same or is your duty to whine about this?

[Dammy]

force is better support class ....

[Darki]

Maybe in performance, but not in numbers, which is what most people here care about.

And I don't really see why. Yeah, you cast Shifta much faster and I guess you heal more with Tech Charge Advance and stuff like that, but techer Supportive skills are obviously better, even if they still need some bump.

[moeri]

Maybe in performance, but not in numbers, which is what most people here care about.

And I don't really see why. Yeah, you cast Shifta much faster and I guess you heal more with Tech Charge Advance and stuff like that, but techer Supportive skills are obviously better, even if they still need some bump.

I am pretty sure this is what they are trying to say... atleast from my viewpoint

Yes, techer was designed to be supportive or atleast you could go that route, but the problem is that the current techer is not "bumped" enough to compete with a force even in the support category

Their argument seems to be that techer is just out performed in every way by the force

Personally I think techer needs to be bumped up a bit to really make it efficient, but ehh it is fun to play

[Dextro]

The only thing i have to add to this is don't be so quick to dismiss Mirage.
It does the job Techer is there to do - support.
It helps them in their stance on the front-lines and helps others too; it's also pretty funny when a mirage'd Sinow or El Arda dash-attacks you and misses. Plus it turns Rockbears into the Incredible Hulk :-D

But yeah, Mirage is definitely a useful status effect because - unlike the other effects - it actually actively cripples the enemies.

[jooozek]

Mirage might be useful but the status chance boosters are useless. Maxed, it adds 10% of what the tech has already chance to apply the status, so if it's 20%, it will be 22%. No matter how you look at it, it's 10 SP down the drain.

[Pirrip]

Do we think Shifta Critical will be able to stack with criticals from other classes? Like if a Hunter has invested 10 SP into Fury Critical, and a Techer has invested 10SP into Shifta Critical, would the percentage of landing a critical hit for the Hunter be raised to 30%? Would anyone be willing to test that?

[Crevox]

Pretty much decreases aggro. I don't seem to ever get focused or attacked when they have the debuff on them.

It causes monsters to sometimes miss with their attacks.


While it is not a huge buff at this level it will be more so in the future and the points are better allocated there than going halfway into the other side of the tree with techs that I wont be using.

Actually, no. It will go from +5atk to +10atk at maximum. See, I did testing, I see you're just guessing.


Doesn't make any difference if you are only using wind techs.

This is incredibly limiting and a huge crippling blow to yourself, and yet STILL doesn't change the fact that you will have less t.ATK than Force.


Rare weapons gives 1.25 times dexterity which in know way negates the need for this stat. With an increase of 20% critical chance it will be far superior than simply having a rare weapon.

Dexterity, as you call it, increases your minimum damage - decreasing the variance in your damage output. This means critical hits, which are your maximum damage, are not that big of a deal. When you're hitting with a variance of 1-1000, crits are great (1000 damage) but if you hit from 950-1000 crits aren't a big deal.


Wand gear is absolutely amazing and I can see you aren't utilizing techer to their abilities and are instead trying to play it as a force.

Wand gear forces you to melee with a wand. Meleeing with a wand reduces PP generation (you could be attacking with a faster weapon like a Rod, Gunslash, or Talis), and in turn, reduces the amount of technic casts you can perform. The amount of damage granted through wand gear does not compensate for the lack of the ability to cast more technics, regardless of you being a techer. It's nifty at least.


Thank you for proving you are incredibly immature and don't understand the first thing about class differences and specialization. Seriously, stop playing techer if you think it sucks so much.

I'm trying to find a reason it's good, and so far, there is nothing. It will be a subclass to Force so I have to level it. :) Again, more ignorance, as I've already stated a lot of this in the thread, you just simply chose to ignore it and think your build was superior (lolno).


Why do people expect Techer to deal more, or the same damage than a force? Techer is the supportive class of the game, and the fact that most people here are DPS-tards that only care about dealing T3H NUM84RZ makes me believe that the ones who have no fuclking idea of what you're talking about, and how RPGs work, are you.

I don't expect it to. I specifically stated many times it does less and it SHOULD do less. However, this person stated that their techer does more damage than their force, so I had to prove to him and myself that it wasn't true (spoiler: it wasn't true).

It's just that the supportive aspect of this class is borderline useless. +20% to heal, but you have a lot less tech attack as a techer, both because of your class stats and the wand. In the end, you're not healing for much more at all, at the cost of losing everything else that is good about Force. Shifta advance/deband advance will give you +10 to atk/def at most (with 10 skill points in each mind you) and shifta critical/deband cut are OK, but even still not that great. There is no buff duration increase, and they are only useful if you can maintain the buffs the entire fight (and still costs 20 skill points, yay).

Support class is great and all, but this is a failure at a support class.


But yeah, Mirage is definitely a useful status effect because - unlike the other effects - it actually actively cripples the enemies.

Yeah, Mirage is good, though I haven't honestly noticed its effect yet. :) It beats panic at the very least.



Do we think Shifta Critical will be able to stack with criticals from other classes? Like if a Hunter has invested 10 SP into Fury Critical, and a Techer has invested 10SP into Shifta Critical, would the percentage of landing a critical hit for the Hunter be raised to 30%? Would anyone be willing to test that?

That's a pretty difficult thing to test, but would be useful to know.



Mirage might be useful but the status chance boosters are useless. Maxed, it adds 10% of what the tech has already chance to apply the status, so if it's 20%, it will be 22%. No matter how you look at it, it's 10 SP down the drain.

Dang, I didn't even know this. This only makes Techer worse. :(

[ShilohSham]

Oh boy this topic,

Techer was never meant to be a upgrade class to forces why do you people think this?

the idea of a Techer is to support! that why they have stat effects like panic,mirage,poison and deband and shifta and Resta boost in there trees, the idea is that your in there with your Fighter and hunters smashing crap in the face while passing out buffs and heals

there not meant to be in the background mash there Rafoie/gizonda hotkey

but by all means keep comparing a mage class to a support class

I mean that why the best mace in the game as it stands has 476 S attack when 10+

With that said I do wish they would change the Range on Deband and shifta or change the deband cut and shifta crit skill to increase the time the spells are on players it not great and after talking about dex and thinking about it he right on a lotta points but then ive been using force logic when I shoulda been smashing things face in

[Crevox]

Oh boy this topic,

Techer was never meant to be a upgrade class to forces why do you people think this?

the idea of a Techer is to support!

Oh boy this topic, you didn't read it.

[Geistritter]

It's funny how desperate people are for Forces to be supporters in this game.

Techer's not a support class; it's an offensive class with support options. If you focused primarily on support with this class, or Force, you'd have a tragically ineffective character.

[ShilohSham]

Oh boy this topic, you didn't read it.

oh no I did you just compare forces and techers to be the same class as you did on gamefaqs board

[Geistritter]

They're pretty much trying to be the same class in different shades, so that's a completely fair comparison to make, actually.

[Crevox]

oh no I did you just compare forces and techers to be the same class as you did on gamefaqs board

Here's a tiny snippet of the MANY THINGS I've said about this class and support:


It's just that the supportive aspect of this class is borderline useless. +20% to heal, but you have a lot less tech attack as a techer, both because of your class stats and the wand. In the end, you're not healing for much more at all, at the cost of losing everything else that is good about Force. Shifta advance/deband advance will give you +10 to atk/def at most (with 10 skill points in each mind you) and shifta critical/deband cut are OK, but even still not that great. There is no buff duration increase, and they are only useful if you can maintain the buffs the entire fight (and still costs 20 skill points, yay).

Support class is great and all, but this is a failure at a support class.

[ShilohSham]

They're pretty much trying to be the same class in different shades, so that's a completely fair comparison to make, actually.

and he Quote how this class should be played end of story:-?

[Crevox]

and he Quote how this class should be played end of story:-?

If you're trying to say you should be using status effects, that's wrong too. 10 skill points for a 2% better chance at inflicting a status effect is not worth it. I guess you could consider that subjective, but... I don't think that's a very good idea personally.....

[Geistritter]

I admittedly can't even begin to guess what he tried to say, m'self, but I can't imagine that was it.

[Hrith]

It's funny how desperate people are for Forces to be supporters in this game.

Techer's not a support class; it's an offensive class with support options. If you focused primarily on support with this class, or Force, you'd have a tragically ineffective character.If you play FO or TE focusing on anything but supporting or healing the party, you'd have a tragically ineffective player.

[IzzyData]

If you play FO or TE focusing on anything but supporting or healing the party, you'd have a tragically ineffective player.

Lol what. This isn't pso:bb. Technique damage isn't even close to being worthless in this game compared to that.

Healing party members shouldn't be anybodies primary focus because then that would mean they were terrible players for taking so much damage. That being said it is still a secondary goal.

[Spellbinder]

If you play FO or TE focusing on anything but supporting or healing the party, you'd have a tragically ineffective player.

I think I'll just go with what the official site says.

Force is for ranged combat. Techer (with hits higher physical defense and wand gear) is for fighting on the front lines while supporting with its ability to enhance the range of its Resta, Shifta, and Deband.

Still waiting on my laptop to be repaired so I can get in the game to try out Techer for myself, but the update's barely been out 4 days and there's still lots of testing to be done and tables in the wiki's left to be filled in.

Does this class need tweaking? From what I've skimmed through here and read on the Japanese forums, I'd say yes. But until then, I vote for civility and level headed discussion.

[IzzyData]

Random attempt at showing some techer gameplay with my idea of techer playstyle as dps.


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8xo0t3cIs0M"]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8xo0t3cIs0M

[AFKei]

Light: You only need 3 in Shifta Advance. Don't put anymore.

Whoops. Looks like I forgot to take those out of the build.

You could get territory boost for some better heal range, more resta advance for some stronger heals, or dive down to PP convert. Finishing off light mastery will give you a significant damage increase with light too. Shifta critical and deband cut are decent buffs, but really can only be worth it if you dedicate yourself to keeping your buffs on and really have no where else to use points.

My brother also suggested the whole Light Mastery too. I find myself as an offensive Techer so I tend to forget about buffs.

Try to decide what you want of those or a mix, and remember: october's update is level 50, so that (should?) be an additional 10 skill points.

I'll keep that in mind.

Dark: If you're going poison ignition, you're probably going to want to max poison boost but... if you feel you're poisoning enough to reliably use ignition already, I guess you won't need it.

Point taken.

Dark mastery would be a good idea to max too, it's a pretty good damage increase if you do, but again, level 50 will give you more skill points.

In either build, I can't speak on the effectiveness of PP convert as I have not personally used it. Reconsider whether or not you want wand gear as well, as it's a hefty 4 points just to get to it - and you're not touching wind at all.

I'm a bit shaky on the whole HP tradeoff as a Techer actually. Photon Flare as a Force got me killed once (though I have my own stupidity to blame because I'm supposed to be back line) and I'm thinking I would suffer the same deal because I'm more front line.

Boldfaced words are my responses.

[HFlowen]

Out of curiosity i tried setting off sazonde charges with lightning wand gear.

To my dissapointment, that doesn't work. Would've be fun as hell if it did.

EDIT: So I just reached territory burst level 10. Have some comparison shots:

[spoiler-box]Here is shifta w/o territory burst:
http://imageshack.us/a/img269/1084/pso20120915130355000.jpg
With territory burst 10:
http://imageshack.us/a/img805/7146/pso20120915130402001.jpg[/spoiler-box]

This blew my mind, why would you even go past level 5 with this skill if there's no benefit other than another 6 or so seconds of active time?

[Dammy]

Wand gear forces you to melee with a wand. Meleeing with a wand reduces PP generation (you could be attacking with a faster weapon like a Rod, Gunslash, or Talis), and in turn, reduces the amount of technic casts you can perform. The amount of damage granted through wand gear does not compensate for the lack of the ability to cast more technics, regardless of you being a techer. It's nifty at least.



It's just that the supportive aspect of this class is borderline useless. +20% to heal, but you have a lot less tech attack as a techer, both because of your class stats and the wand. In the end, you're not healing for much more at all, at the cost of losing everything else that is good about Force. Shifta advance/deband advance will give you +10 to atk/def at most (with 10 skill points in each mind you) and shifta critical/deband cut are OK, but even still not that great. There is no buff duration increase, and they are only useful if you can maintain the buffs the entire fight (and still costs 20 skill points, yay).

Support class is great and all, but this is a failure at a support class.

pretty much this
right now Techer is not better support than Force

as Force you can spam heals and quick shiftas
as Techer you spend SP just to be on par

[moeri]

This blew my mind, why would you even go past level 5 with this skill if there's no benefit other than another 6 or so seconds of active time?

I am actually wondering why you say level 5... why not just level 1?

[HFlowen]

I am actually wondering why you say level 5... why not just level 1?

Just because it gains the most amount of active time in the first 5 levels, then tapers off to one second per level.

You could get away with level 1 if you just wanna get a shifta/deband in real quick and move on.

[moeri]

Just because it gains the most amount of active time in the first 5 levels, then tapers off to one second per level.

You could get away with level 1 if you just wanna get a shifta/deband in real quick and move on.

Yeah I was just thinking that if I was going to use this skill I would probably try to get everyone with the first use of the skill.

Casting it over and over seems like it could do more harm then good... because you aren;t putting out any damage at that point.

Idk just my opinion on the matter.

[Crevox]

Yeah I was just thinking that if I was going to use this skill I would probably try to get everyone with the first use of the skill.

Casting it over and over seems like it could do more harm then good... because you aren;t putting out any damage at that point.

Idk just my opinion on the matter.

Someone had to try to see if it actually got a range increase... I salute him for taking the dive for us. :)

[moeri]

Someone had to try to see if it actually got a range increase... I salute him for taking the dive for us. :)

Oh yes ofcourse!

This is definitely true!

Self Sacrificing hero he is!

[Blundy]

pretty much it would seem if you werent interested in tanky force than techer probably isnt for you. i appreciate taking the hits though i do wish the wands swung faster. Depending on subclasses work... Techer+guardstance= love

[HFlowen]

Someone had to try to see if it actually got a range increase... I salute him for taking the dive for us. :)

I REALLY want to say that techer is just flat out broken right now. No, not in the good way, it's awful at everything it seems.

I mean in the update video there was a very obvious visual change when the techer used deband with territory boost (there was a big sphere in the center), but when I used it all I got was maybe another three foot radius and a slight swirling effect in the center.

Anyway, fuck techer, I'm trying out the other classes for now.

[Inazuma]

Techter is the other half of the force class. It sucks on its own, but it wasn't designed to be on its own. Get techter to 40 and then switch back to the superior force class while you wait for subclasses to come out next month.

http://ryuhiroshi.ry.funpic.de/pso2/techer.html?01TE!IOI24Nj4NqnHN4Qcs

This is my techter skill tree. This is designed for Force & Techter. Force is already very good but you still run out of pp, so hopefully with techter's pp skills, you won't have to switch to gunslash as often.

Techter will also be very useful with hunter and ranger classes. Once again, all of the current classes are half-classes, designed with subclasses in mind. The current imbalance problems should go away next month.

[shadowspike3]

territory burst also works for megiburst so that might be useful. whats the range increase and duration at lvl 1 vs 5 vs 10?

this is my build for techer since its just fodder for subclassing for my force.
How close do you have to be to activate poison ignition? hairs width? arms length?

http://ryuhiroshi.ry.funpic.de/pso2/techer.html?01TE!IOI24OIdIk4NGAftKf

[Crevox]

territory burst also works for megiburst so that might be useful. whats the range increase and duration at lvl 1 vs 5 vs 10?


Optimal territorial burst is like level 3. It starts going down in duration gain, and at level 7~10 it's like +1 second.

Range never increases per point.


(there was a big sphere in the center),

That was Deband Cut's effect. Shifta Critical and Deband Cut tweak the effects of the spells (deband cut adds a sphere, shifta critical makes it all crackly).

[Pirrip]

I thought of something else that may or may not be interesting to think about.
We all know that Rods had a higher T-ATK than Wands,

BUT, let's suppose that when subclasses come out, you can choose to either main Force and sub Techer OR you can main Techer and sub Force.
AND let's assume that your Main class determines your base stats and weapons you can use-the subclass just letting you have all the abilities in it.

I would argue that perhaps, assuming you have points dedicated in both class's trees toward more T-ATK, you may be doing more damage overall with the wand gear if you mained Techer and subbed Force. Because-let's face it-if your PP needs refilling and there's an enemy or mob in front of you, you're likely to hit it, right? And with the Wand gear, you'd be pounding elemental damage into your mob with more strength than a rod would.

This argument may be more valid if you've put more points in elemental mastery, and would be equalizing your potentially lower T-ATK with fantastic Wand Gear damage. But may be less valid if you are using PP Charge in tandem with a maxed out PP Restraint, in which case you may more rarely need to use other means to refill your PP again.

[Coatl]

pretty much it would seem if you werent interested in tanky force than techer probably isnt for you. i appreciate taking the hits though i do wish the wands swung faster. Depending on subclasses work... Techer+guardstance= love

That is assuming a sub classed techer can guard. x-x
Who knows, we might just get access to hunter weapons and hunter stances.
Then what? :I

[gigawuts]

Then I have hot love with sakai for making all my dreams come true.

Also you can guard with a soul eater or tuna, but it'll cost PP.

[Coatl]

Then I have hot love with sakai for making all my dreams come true.

Also you can guard with a soul eater or tuna, but it'll cost PP.

Ohrite I forgot the shift button is dependant on the WEAPON, but the class.
Mymistakeignoremypost.

[Volta]

Techter is the other half of the force class. It sucks on its own, but it wasn't designed to be on its own. Get techter to 40 and then switch back to the superior force class while you wait for subclasses to come out next month.

http://ryuhiroshi.ry.funpic.de/pso2/techer.html?01TE!IOI24Nj4NqnHN4Qcs

This is my techter skill tree. This is designed for Force & Techter. Force is already very good but you still run out of pp, so hopefully with techter's pp skills, you won't have to switch to gunslash as often.

Techter will also be very useful with hunter and ranger classes. Once again, all of the current classes are half-classes, designed with subclasses in mind. The current imbalance problems should go away next month.

"Techer was designed for subclassing" is kind of a disingenious statement, especially since every other class is able to stand on its own.

[Pirrip]

I messed up my post on the previous page and re-edited it... but I can totally see how someone could argue, or have a preference for, a force being a subclass and the techer being the main class.

[Zorafim]

I tried out techer. It may have a sucky tree, but without skills, it's a pretty amazing class. Zan was doing a ton of damage, which complemented a melee attack style. Combine that with wand gear, and I think I was doing more damage on techer than any other new class.

From what I can tell, a fully charged wand gear does nearly twice as much damage as a wand by itself. And the wand was putting out some impressive numbers.

Of course, I was only doing well because of Zan. I think I'm going to try to switch elements when I get to new areas and see how that fairs. Specializing in an element doesn't really fit well as a techer, since there's no real boost like there is with force.

[Volta]

But you can also use Zan as a Force. In fact I was throwing Zans at Vol Dragon while unlocking Techer and despite me not investing any points into Tech Charge Advance because of poor planning I was still outdamaging the Hunter in my party. Why switch to Techer to use Zan when I can just stay a Force and outDPS the Techer with it?

[shadowspike3]

Switch to Techer so you can invest in a (possibly) rewarding subclass option come October. Das It.

[Crevox]

But you can also use Zan as a Force. In fact I was throwing Zans at Vol Dragon while unlocking Techer and despite me not investing any points into Tech Charge Advance because of poor planning I was still outdamaging the Hunter in my party. Why switch to Techer to use Zan when I can just stay a Force and outDPS the Techer with it?

Exactly this. :)


"Techer was designed for subclassing" is kind of a disingenious statement, especially since every other class is able to stand on its own.

This is true, but what else can we think when the class is this bad? I wish it could stand on its own a bit better (a gimped Force is still a Force) but it just has no redeeming qualities.


I can totally see how someone could argue, or have a preference for, a force being a subclass and the techer being the main class.

Maybe, I guess. We don't know the restrictions on the subclass system or any of the mechanics of it, so saying either way is just a guess.

[Blundy]

i had meant the hunter stance that raises strike defense, i like wands i wouldnt bother being a techer without wands. so many neat ones (all the non silly mallet ones)

[gigawuts]

Yeah, techer is really the second half of the HUnewearl at this stage. And it will be a rocking awesome subclass, PP restraint will be especially great for subbing. I'll probably raise up my techer to 30-ish but not even touch its skillsheet until subclasses are released and we know how things work.

What we need to remember is PP restraint is the poor force's PP revival, except pp revival only works on techs but pp restraint works on everything.

[Sie]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QfqycxHihHI&hd=1
Another example of techer melee damage using a 20% light element 5* wand +10 with no affixes.

I find the melee damage to be pretty good, very useful on the larger darkers like breeda were I can knock them down using a wind tech and then melee their weakspot and so I end up using no pp at all. I'm hitting for around 600-900 a swing since wands hit twice with no pp cost.

I find it better suited for up close combat were as force I would be further back using rafoie on most bosses I'm actually in melee range now.

[Silver Crow]

PSO2 Techer Class - YouTube (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QfqycxHihHI&hd=1)
Another example of techer melee damage using a 20% light element 5* wand +10 with no affixes.

I find the melee damage to be pretty good, very useful on the larger darkers like breeda were I can knock them down using a wind tech and then melee their weakspot and so I end up using no pp at all. I'm hitting for around 600-900 a swing since wands hit twice with no pp cost.

I find it better suited for up close combat were as force I would be further back using rafoie on most bosses I'm actually in melee range now.

that's an interesting video... i wonder if dark techs would do this any faster though

[Volta]

Don't know if you knew this already since I only saw you do it twice in the video, but if you jump over the Zan sickles as they boomerang back to you they'll continue to fly around the arena.

I've been thinking about the Force skill tree, and I'm starting to think SEGA putting both Tech Charge Advance skills in the same elemental branch was a bad idea. Getting Tech Charge Advance to be just as good as a tech Mastery would be much more difficult if, say, TCA2 was in the underutilized Ice branch.

[Crevox]

Still more effective to just Gigrants the tentacles and spam Zan on his belly. If you know how to dodge the discs without affecting DPS it destroys him in one go. Don't even need to break the tentacles again.

Wand gear remains useless at that point.

[HFlowen]

That was Deband Cut's effect. Shifta Critical and Deband Cut tweak the effects of the spells (deband cut adds a sphere, shifta critical makes it all crackly).

Well that's one mystery solved, thank you.

Still, territory burst ten should be like, twice the damn size that it is.

[Crevox]

Well that's one mystery solved, thank you.

Still, territory burst ten should be like, twice the damn size that it is.

Completely agree. :(

[Sie]

Don't know if you knew this already since I only saw you do it twice in the video, but if you jump over the Zan sickles as they boomerang back to you they'll continue to fly around the arena.

I was trying to waste some pp to show that I was back at full by the time I stopped using melee, so throwing more zans helped show that :)

I'm assuming using a hunter mag may help increase the melee damage if it is using SAtk, but I don't have one to check.

[IzzyData]

PSO2 Techer Class - YouTube (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QfqycxHihHI&hd=1)
Another example of techer melee damage using a 20% light element 5* wand +10 with no affixes.

I find the melee damage to be pretty good, very useful on the larger darkers like breeda were I can knock them down using a wind tech and then melee their weakspot and so I end up using no pp at all. I'm hitting for around 600-900 a swing since wands hit twice with no pp cost.

I find it better suited for up close combat were as force I would be further back using rafoie on most bosses I'm actually in melee range now.

At least somebody else gets it. :-D

[Crevox]

At least somebody else gets it. :-D

I refer you to this post:


Still more effective to just Gigrants the tentacles and spam Zan on his belly. If you know how to dodge the discs without affecting DPS it destroys him in one go. Don't even need to break the tentacles again.

Wand gear remains useless at that point.

[IzzyData]

Yea ok, but it isn't. Zan destroys the tenticles because of its massive range. If you combine zan and wand attacks on the weak spot you can do way faster damage than having to charge techs.

Seriously man, just stop.. Stop playing techer if you are going to ignore how to play it an effective way.

[Heat Haze]

Just my two cents on the matter. Techer is absolutely TERRIBLE support-wise. If Territory Burst wasn't so lackluster, it'd be awesome. On it's own, Techer is mediocre but it isn't anywhere near bad. I built my Skill Tree with a FO Sub-Class in mind (assuming it works like how we all hope it does).

Essentially, I went after Wand Gear. Then, went for PP Restraint 10 and PP Convert 3. That is all 45SP.

As far as stats allocation.

Wand Gear: It's Wand Gear. You hit stuff, you get pretty effects. It hurts 'em more. It's actually very good. Try it, you won't regret it. The only thing you would regret is the slow swinging animation, but the damage output is so high with the Wand Gear it doesn't matter.
PP Restraint 10: PP Regen 140%. Passive, it's lovely.
PP Convert 3: +2 to your PP Regen (So it ends up being 3PP/s) with 30 second duration and reduced HP to 78%. Why at 3 and not higher? Taking into account how fast PP Recovers with this simply at 3, any more would be wasted SP and PP. If Sub Classes allow for us to have access to FO's PP Tech Charge Advance, the PP you'd use vs the PP you'd recover from this ability effectively cancel each other out (If you're not using Zonde techs, but you'd have enough PP to spam the charged Zonde techs out anyway for the duration of the effect). So, this is left at 3. Could go higher if you'd like, but it isn't worth it. At level 10, this ability gains a whopping +6PP (I believe it is at +6. I've already gotten level 40 TE but spent the points elsewhere so I can't doublecheck), 70% Max HP (This I am sure of however). Nice right? WRONG. We can't fully utilize all that PP Regen. Cooldown and duration is also the same throughout all 10 levels as well (I am also sure of this); sadly.

Now, base PP Regen is 5PP/s (5 per second). Coupled with PP Restraint 10 it's a decent 7PP/s. It's a passive, which is always nice. As a class capable of using techs, we need all the PP we can get.

For PP Convert 3, your PP Regen increases by +2, making your PP Regen recover +3 instead of the base +1. With this active, your PP Regen becomes 15PP/s. Duration is reasonably lengthy (considering all 10 levels have the same duration and cooldown period).

These stack.

Together, when you use PP Convert 3, your PP Regen will be a satisfying 21PP/s which I "believe" is enough PP to even keep up with Rafoie spam under PP Tech Charge Advance. If you want more PP Regen at this point, it also stacks with Ketos Proi PB (It's insane).

This skill tree is built with subbing FO in mind (or vice versa); and I 'feel' is the most viable TE build on it's own (If you don't like Just Reversal, I'd throw that in Wind Mastery 1 because +5% damage is nice; but as a melee oriented class I felt this was necessary). Just my opinion though. Take it for what you will; but while I lurk around I might as well contribute something. :)

My build: http://ryuhiroshi.ry.funpic.de/pso2/techer.html?01TE!IOI2kbdqf4NqnHN4QIS

[Crevox]

Yea ok, but it isn't. Zan destroys the tenticles because of its massive range. If you combine zan and wand attacks on the weak spot you can do way faster damage than having to charge techs.

Seriously man, just stop.. Stop playing techer if you are going to ignore how to play it an effective way.

Techer has to charge techs too, and they have the same speed (which is extremely fast). Besides that, you're agreeing with me.

You simply don't need wand attacks. That's all there is to it. Use Zan. If you don't have PP, get PP using a faster weapon, or use your photon blast you should have because you're hitting multiple enemies at the same time. Use Zan some more. If you're a Force, you can spam it infinitely with the PB on.

[IzzyData]

You use uncharged techs as just attacks in combination with melee after the intial attacks if they are still alive.

Zan is still amazing and having 10/10 wind mastery is even more amazing. But do whatever you want. I'm going to main techer and do plenty of damage with wind and wand attacks.

It mostly comes down to playstyle, you can make any of the three branches effective enough with the right playstyle. But holding your hands over your ears and yelling no no no they all suck probably wont work.

[Crevox]

You use uncharged techs

use uncharged techs

uncharged techs

Yep, not taking you seriously anymore.

[IzzyData]

Yep, not taking you seriously anymore.

I stopped taking you seriously forever ago. :-o

[Geistritter]

Saying such things is always reasonable and believable when you just got finished trying to win them over with your opinion.

[Crevox]

I stopped taking you seriously forever ago. :-o

Disappointing, cause I respected your opinion and thoughts until just now.

[IzzyData]

Saying such things is always reasonable and believable when you just got finished trying to win them over with your opinion.

For the sake of everybody else.

[Volta]

So after some more playtime with Techer it really seems like SEGA missed the forest for the trees with the class.

They don't get Tech Charge Advance because they're supposed to be dealing all their damage through Wand Gear melee. Except you use charged techs to fill up the heat gauge. Oops.

Territory Burst and all those other S/D buff skills are actually for your own benefit rather than the party's, as the unboosted buff distance was way too low if you were being mobile in the heat of battle, as a Techer is wont to be. Unfortunately this cuts the utility of the Techer over the Force a lot.

I always thought it was weird that Forces used Rods and not Wands given the historical role those two weapon types played in PSO1, and Techers only reinforce this feeling. The small hitbox and long recovery animation put you at great risk in the melee situations that the class is supposedly built around. I think SEGA's a bit too far up shit creek to simply swap everything about the two weapon types now, though.

[Crevox]

So after some more playtime with Techer it really seems like SEGA missed the forest for the trees with the class.

They don't get Tech Charge Advance because they're supposed to be dealing all their damage through Wand Gear melee. Except you use charged techs to fill up the heat gauge. Oops.

Territory Burst and all those other S/D buff skills are actually for your own benefit rather than the party's, as the unboosted buff distance was way too low if you were being mobile in the heat of battle, as a Techer is wont to be. Unfortunately this cuts the utility of the Techer over the Force a lot.

I always thought it was weird that Forces used Rods and not Wands given the historical role those two weapon types played in PSO1, and Techers only reinforce this feeling. The small hitbox and long recovery animation put you at great risk in the melee situations that the class is supposedly built around. I think SEGA's a bit too far up shit creek to simply swap everything about the two weapon types now, though.

Yeah, it's all a bit strange. Subclassing might end up being a beacon of light for this class and Force, but we'll see. Wand is just too clunky.

[IzzyData]

They don't get Tech Charge Advance because they're supposed to be dealing all their damage through Wand Gear melee. Except you use charged techs to fill up the heat gauge. Oops.


That doesn't make any sense as an argument. Just because you use certain spells doesn't mean you should be given extra damage for it. Forces can use resta and anti so why aren't there skills for it in the skill tree? Oops?



I always thought it was weird that Forces used Rods and not Wands given the historical role those two weapon types played in PSO1, and Techers only reinforce this feeling. The small hitbox and long recovery animation put you at great risk in the melee situations that the class is supposedly built around. I think SEGA's a bit too far up shit creek to simply swap everything about the two weapon types now, though.
It's like it is a coincidence that mirage buff is in the wand gear branch.

[gigawuts]

What would make techer great for me is charge speed bonused foie + wand, or zonde & wind + all the PP stuff combined.

Wind is basically the other side of zonde's coin, and I love seeing other forces use it. I just haven't gotten around to tinkering with it myself, been too busy on fighter (and frothing over techer as a subclass, om nom nom).

Honestly, it really seems like it breaks down to whether or not you like wands. If you don't, force is better...because force doesn't have wants. If you do like them, well, force doesn't have wands.

[Crevox]

Honestly, it really seems like it breaks down to whether or not you like wands. If you don't, force is better...because force doesn't have wants. If you do like them, well, force doesn't have wands.

Pretty much. It's a decision between technic damage and PP generation or the ability to hit harder in melee.

[Volta]

That doesn't make any sense as an argument. Just because you use certain spells doesn't mean you should be given extra damage for it. Forces can use resta and anti so why aren't there skills for it in the skill tree? Oops?

Your skill tree should ideally reinforce your playstyle. Techers need charged techs to fill up the heat gauge, and every time I chucked a Zan across the room to fill up the gauge I kept thinking about how much more damage I'd be doing if I were a force with TCA.


It's like it is a coincidence that mirage buff is in the wand gear branch.

Good luck getting Mirage to proc against bosses, which are pretty much the only things that can kill you in one hit.

[Crevox]

Good luck getting Mirage to proc against bosses, which are pretty much the only things that can kill you in one hit.

Not to mention the fact that it boosts the chance by around 2% with 10 points. :)

[Zorafim]

Got some more practice in with wand gear. Holy hell this is fun. This really feels like a melee/mage hybrid. Elemental smacks makes me feel like a mystic knight, while close range techs makes me feel like a dark knight. My only regret is that I won't be able to get any better at doing this.

[IzzyData]

Got some more practice in with wand gear. Holy hell this is fun. This really feels like a melee/mage hybrid. Elemental smacks makes me feel like a mystic knight, while close range techs makes me feel like a dark knight. My only regret is that I won't be able to get any better at doing this.

Try an uncharged gizan in the middle of your wand attacks. It is pretty much the final hit of the gizan charge attack by itself. I've been doing around 400-500 damage with it uncharged on a weakspot. Since it is instant damage without waiting for it to charge it has very high dps output and because you don't need to worry about pp due to all the melee attacks you can pretty much spam it along side your wand attacks.

Edit: Another thing to point out is that you can use an uncharged sazan to keep the enemy stunned while you melee. You can also use a charged sazan to clump a bunch of enemies together for some aoe melee.

Zan spells were clearly meant for wand gear. Although that isn't much of a surprise after looking at the skill tree.

[FenixStryk]

I'm very happy with Wand, Wand Gear, Zan and Wind Mastery -- but it ends there.

I don't get what/who this skill tree is supposed to be for. Territory Burst? Timed cooldown. PP Convert? Timed cooldown. PP Restraint? +2 PP/s for 10 points. I mean, do they want me to dump everything into Shifta Advance and Shifta Critical? Those aren't very stellar boosts either.

Honestly, I'm going to be squatting on 27 SP until someone gives me a good reason to spend it. Everything that isn't Wand Gear or Wind Mastery is (or at least seems like) a near-complete waste.

[varaville]

My build: http://ryuhiroshi.ry.funpic.de/pso2/techer.html?01TE!IOI2kbdqf4NqnHN4QIS


this looks pretty solid. dunno what to do with mine since i cant get reset/extra trees..

[Heat Haze]

I'm very happy with Wand, Wand Gear, Zan and Wind Mastery -- but it ends there.

I don't get what/who this skill tree is supposed to be for. Territory Burst? Timed cooldown. PP Convert? Timed cooldown. PP Restraint? +2 PP/s for 10 points. I mean, do they want me to dump everything into Shifta Advance and Shifta Critical? Those aren't very stellar boosts either.

Honestly, I'm going to be squatting on 27 SP until someone gives me a good reason to spend it. Everything that isn't Wand Gear or Wind Mastery is (or at least seems like) a near-complete waste.

I, pretty much, shared the same sentiments. But I felt that points in use would be better used than just sitting there; although that can be debatable with how this skill tree is.

My reasoning for what I did, along with my tree, is here: http://www.pso-world.com/forums/showpost.php?p=2857464&postcount=159

How far do you have Wind Mastery at? I plan to dump points into it once cap raises to 50.

[SPOnion]

Is it me only that feel the Wind spells actually charge much faster?

[Crevox]

Is it me only that feel the Wind spells actually charge much faster?

They're the same.

[IzzyData]

Is it me only that feel the Wind spells actually charge much faster?

No, it isn't you. They charge faster than everything else except fire with charge time reduction.



They're the same.

loled

[Crevox]

No, it isn't you. They charge much faster than everything else except fire with charge time reduction.




loled

Yes, they really are the same unless wind mastery does something to it. How many things do you have to be wrong on before you just give up? How dexterity works? What mirage does? The effectiveness of shifta advance? Jeez. If you don't like my responses, just don't comment.

[FenixStryk]

Don't mind me, just raping face on the front lines with wands and wind techs.

http://ryuhiroshi.ry.funpic.de/pso2/techer.html?01TE!IOI2qn2XcK0You know, I linked a build like this on IRC as a joke. I never would have thought someone would actually run it.

Since you actually have it, do you mind telling me the percent boost Shifta Critical gives? It isn't listed on PSO2 Wikiwiki.

As an aside, I'm also interested in hearing about Poison Ignition. I suspect it's just as bad as Freeze Ignition, but I have a feeling someone on PSO-W is running it anyway. Because it's PSO-W.


In general:
I don't think Techer is as good as a double Charge Advance Force, but I think some of you are underestimating just how hard Wand Gear carries the class' damage. Techer has to deal with downtime more often (no PP Revival), but in that downtime you are putting out somewhere around ~5x the amount of damage a Force deals while regenerating with a Gunslash (1 swing of >500+500 per 2 shots of ~100ea.).

I'd be interested in seeing DPS calculations for the two classes over a period of time (somewhere around 15 seconds, or a single Force PP rotation). While I suspect Force would maintain the lead, I'm willing to bet that it's not a crippling loss for Techer, and that Techer's damage is more consistent over time.

[IzzyData]

I don't have shifta critical. I'm only level 20. However it is likely to be +20% like fury stance critical.

I'll look into what I want to allocate points into when the time comes, but going down the right side of the tree isn't going to benefit a wind/wand techer much so there isn't really anywhere else to put them. Any benefit is better than no benefit.

[Crevox]

Since you actually have it, do you mind telling me the percent boost Shifta Critical gives? It isn't listed on PSO2 Wikiwiki.

10%.


As an aside, I'm also interested in hearing about Poison Ignition. I suspect it's just as bad as Freeze Ignition, but I have a feeling someone on PSO-W is running it anyway. Because it's PSO-W.

It's supposedly stronger than Freeze Ignition, but that's all I've heard. That of course doesn't make it good; it's still ignition.

[gigawuts]

Freeze ignition is bad for a whole lot of reasons, none of them applying to megid or poison. Frozen enemies break free on taking damage, barta spells are limited in range, only two bosses can be frozen, freeze ignition damages just one enemy, and forces don't typically want to get close to enemies.

Megid has much better spells for applying its effect, the effect is universally useful in all situations, and it doesn't go away when an enemy is hit, way more than just two bosses can be poisoned, poison ignition has an AOE on it that may poison nearby enemies, and techers DO want to get close.

So the only penalties they have in common is they both cost 10 SP to max out, and they're in trees players may not want to invest in.

[Dextro]

When i decide to pick up Techer again, I think i'll go ahead and use this skill tree:
http://ryuhiroshi.ry.funpic.de/pso2/techer.html?01TE!IOI2kIdqf4NqnHNcFf

Wand Gear is pretty much required if you want to play this job, otherwise you're just going to play it how you would a FO....and fall short in every single aspect.

PP Restraint is the replacement for PP Revival, i guess. It'll decrease pp downtime in the same fashion, but in a way suited to the class's playstyle:
-PP Revival is based around recovering PP during spellcasting, so it provides a boost during the charging phase.
-PP Restraint is based around recovering PP when you're not casting. It's there primarily to speed up your pp regen while you melee, not so that you can fire off more Zans (well, you can if you want to), but being a support job, i think it's more intended to keep a steady upkeep of Shifta/Deband/Megiverse.
I suppose the logic is that if you're right up there meleeing with the hunters, then they'll always be in range for the aforementioned buffs.

Time to explain why i'd actually go with Poison Ignition...:-D It don't see it sharing many of the problems that make Freeze Ignition awful, although looking at the name i bet everyone would probably assume it's a piece of shit regardless.

(i) You won't have to run into range in order to use Poison Ignition.
FO is long-range fighter, and having to run in to use a skill with a pretty long startup is just.....horrible. Techer doesn't have this problem as it's always in the mob's face.

(ii) Poison won't be cancelled before or after you manage to use the skill.
So you no longer have to worry about your party members or NPCs ruining your chance. Not only that, but you can also Ignition off of other classes that can apply Poison too.

(iii) There's just....nothing else to go for in the skill tree that doesn't suck. Sure you can go with Element Mastery, but going for damage+ doesn't have the same utility as it does for FO.
FO spends all of it's time firing off Techs, whereas Techer would spend only 33% (an even split between buffing/meleeing/casting). It's obvious who'd benefit more from trying to increase their DPS.
And if you argue that you're casting the majority of the time, then you must be either:
1) Not utilizing your buffs or melee atttacks enough (in which case, you're just playing a Force...)
2) You're just running around swinging at the enemy once for the JA frame and then casting a Tech on the enemy.....in the exact same fashion as a Force....in which case you should've just gone as a Force.

Everything else in tree has been covered; status and stat boosts are awful.
Additionally, with the lv50 cap, you get just enough points to put 3sp into PP Convert. Perfect, because 3/10 is the point at which you start getting diminishing returns from it.

And that, ladies and gentlemen, is my attempt at finding a use for Techer....i'll defend it but only to an extent.
Alternatively, you can just do whatever the f--k you wanna do 8-)

[Spellbinder]

Sounds like we're on track to finding Techer's purpose.

And for the record, every time someone says PP Restraint, God kills a kitten... please save the kittens... :-(

[Dammy]

btw, techer is a godbless for Focasts
because techer dont need so many t atk to equip top wands
because it use S def instead of T def for units
and because it hits harder in melee too

basically any hucast or racast that gonna sub techer will be in win situation

[HFlowen]

I decided to go ahead and finish off techer, despite being disappointed in so many ways with it.

My tree will end something like this: http://ryuhiroshi.ry.funpic.de/pso2/techer.html?01TE!IOI2kb2FIbqncK6

I'm already ten points invested into territory burst unfortunately, so I'm gonna make this tree as support as possible. I'll sub it onto a ranger/hunter type class since buffs don't rely on tech attack.

[Arada]

When i decide to pick up Techer again, I think i'll go ahead and use this skill tree:
http://ryuhiroshi.ry.funpic.de/pso2/techer.html?01TE!IOI2kIdqf4NqnHNcFf

Wand Gear is pretty much required if you want to play this job, otherwise you're just going to play it how you would a FO....and fall short in every single aspect.

PP Restraint is the replacement for PP Revival, i guess. It'll decrease pp downtime in the same fashion, but in a way suited to the class's playstyle:
-PP Revival is based around recovering PP during spellcasting, so it provides a boost during the charging phase.
-PP Restraint is based around recovering PP when you're not casting. It's there primarily to speed up your pp regen while you melee, not so that you can fire off more Zans (well, you can if you want to), but being a support job, i think it's more intended to keep a steady upkeep of Shifta/Deband/Megiverse.
I suppose the logic is that if you're right up there meleeing with the hunters, then they'll always be in range for the aforementioned buffs.

Time to explain why i'd actually go with Poison Ignition...:-D It don't see it sharing many of the problems that make Freeze Ignition awful, although looking at the name i bet everyone would probably assume it's a piece of shit regardless.

(i) You won't have to run into range in order to use Poison Ignition.
FO is long-range fighter, and having to run in to use a skill with a pretty long startup is just.....horrible. Techer doesn't have this problem as it's always in the mob's face.

(ii) Poison won't be cancelled before or after you manage to use the skill.
So you no longer have to worry about your party members or NPCs ruining your chance. Not only that, but you can also Ignition off of other classes that can apply Poison too.

(iii) There's just....nothing else to go for in the skill tree that doesn't suck. Sure you can go with Element Mastery, but going for damage+ doesn't have the same utility as it does for FO.
FO spends all of it's time firing off Techs, whereas Techer would spend only 33% (an even split between buffing/meleeing/casting). It's obvious who'd benefit more from trying to increase their DPS.
And if you argue that you're casting the majority of the time, then you must be either:
1) Not utilizing your buffs or melee atttacks enough (in which case, you're just playing a Force...)
2) You're just running around swinging at the enemy once for the JA frame and then casting a Tech on the enemy.....in the exact same fashion as a Force....in which case you should've just gone as a Force.

Everything else in tree has been covered; status and stat boosts are awful.
Additionally, with the lv50 cap, you get just enough points to put 3sp into PP Convert. Perfect, because 3/10 is the point at which you start getting diminishing returns from it.

And that, ladies and gentlemen, is my attempt at finding a use for Techer....i'll defend it but only to an extent.
Alternatively, you can just do whatever the f--k you wanna do 8-)

I'm going for the same build. except for Wand Gear for which I'm completely unsure.
Do you have a video or something showing its effects ?

To come back on Poison Ignition, it's quite fantastic (it's level 5 for me currently) as I can dish very high damage for my level. For instance Cataderan got poisoned, already suffering heavily from that, and got hit by Poison Ignition (level 5) for a very nice 4300 which, at level 16, is quite impressive.

From I can see and read, anything buff-related is really sub-par (or not worth that many SP) and even worse, keeping buffs on at all time is really a hassle because of how the game is played. Getting grouped or close to the team (even with Territory Boost) is really hard simply because the game requires a lot more movement than previous games.
As long as they don't raise the range of the buffs (and Territory Boost) as well as raise the actual bonus given by the Shifta/Deband Advance, buffs will remain inefficient.

[Dammy]

can you please post more info about poison ignition?
how long is cooldown, how far you can use it, how it affect nearby targets , etc

[Omega-z]

Oh by the way the Proc rate is 10% not 2%. That 20 on the spell's is a % rate all ready and add's 10% too the effect so add the chances to 5 to 1 -> 3 to 1 proc rate, there are notes on this in the JP wiki. Yeah not that big when it comes to how strong it get's, But add like poison In. or other to boost your chances to do Dmg. Your better off doing so.

Actually Force's don't get any additive boost to there Support and Also get hit by the new Buff spell rules so adding more buff will happen with both. and with Techer having a +20% to Buff and Range. Saying that Force can do it too is just a Moot Point since tech's are the same rate of speed ....etc.

The DPS rate is closer then you think but it's not what you think it is that's the one of the problem's.

The playstyle is completely different then a Force I believe You won't get it unless you understand how it work's (truly wise not just sampling it and try playing it like a force and saying it suck's).

The only problem I see is the slow rate of the weapon speed but that's it. If it weren't so Teacher would be out DPS'ing the Force class. So I wouldn't change it tho even if it can be a pain at times.

[Arada]

For Poison Ignition:

- Cool down is at 120 seconds at level 1. At level 5, it's at 80 seconds. It appears, Cooldown lowers by 10 seconds at each rank.
- Power is currently at 180% but I can't remember the base stats. IMO this power reflects the power that has the explosion compared to a tick of Poison but I'm not yet sure, I'll have to test it out more but sure is high.
- It also has another stat currently at 18% (and it was always Power/10) which I don't know what it is (probably the percentage to spread the poison).
- I've not yet seen the poison spread as normal enemies die quite fast currently and I have too little time to set Poison Ignition correctly. Maybe when I'll reach Tundra I'll be able to see more of that.
- For the area that creates the explosion, I've put a screenshot of that area at level 5 so that you make your own opinion about how good/bad it is. I hope it increases when I level the ability to 10.

If you need me to give more info or make more tests, let me know.

[Darki]

The only problem I see is the slow rate of the weapon speed but that's it. If it weren't so Teacher would be out DPS'ing the Force class. So I wouldn't change it tho even if it can be a pain at times.

In my opinion the real problem is that the supportive qualities of the class are not too well exploited. An area boost is neat but the problem is that with a 1 minute duration buff you gotta be CONSTANTLY buffing your party. Also, the fact that people has to stay inmobile to get the most of the buff, is a really downside to it, specially in this game where people is not limited to pre-designed enclosed rooms.

I hope as we get higher level caps for PAs/techs this gets solved, most of the times I don't buff myself as Force just because I gotta stop for like 10 secs to buff myself just for that little time.

[jooozek]

I don't buff myself as Force just because I gotta stop for like 10 secs to buff myself just for that little time.

Am I the only one who got shifta on subpalette and selected it to just press B whenever I want 30 seconds of shifta? That takes 2 seconds at best. If you run, and launch the uncharged shifta, it will stop you, before you get outside of the radius you will be hit already by both ticks.

[Volta]

I decided to go ahead and finish off techer, despite being disappointed in so many ways with it.

My tree will end something like this: http://ryuhiroshi.ry.funpic.de/pso2/techer.html?01TE!IOI2kb2FIbqncK6

I'm already ten points invested into territory burst unfortunately, so I'm gonna make this tree as support as possible. I'll sub it onto a ranger/hunter type class since buffs don't rely on tech attack.

Out of curiosity, have you tested the effective range of TB'd S/D on a party member? I have this vain hope that the range is longer than what the visual effect of the spell is.

[Dammy]

main problem about shifta is that it ticks not from your character but from place where you started it
so if you move you will lose ticks, you are forced to stay at that place for few seconds
BUT if it was going from your character then you just run into allies and buff them, or buff your self while you are running

[IzzyData]

I'm going for the same build. except for Wand Gear for which I'm completely unsure.
Do you have a video or something showing its effects ?


-Meleeing
-Uncharged techs
-Zan spells
-Instant shifta

Haters gonna hate. Whenever subclassing comes out I'll probably go Techer / Force for the +20% charged tech damage and fire damage buff and swap between fire and wind when the situation calls for it.


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EAqv0xDBqF0"]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EAqv0xDBqF0

[redroses]

Question, does the tech that comes out of the wand, with wand gear depend on the element of your wand? Or is it based on something else?

[IzzyData]

Question, does the tech that comes out of the wand, with wand gear depend on the element of your wand? Or is it based on something else?

Based on the element of the wand. Might be worthwhile to get a few different element wands for that reason.

I'm still curious to know if the explosions damage is boosted by your skilltree mastery.

[redroses]

Based on the element of the wand. Might be worthwhile to get a few different element wands for that reason.

I'm still curious to know if the explosions damage is boosted by your skilltree mastery.

Ah interesting, didn't know that. Thank you very much!

I might give techer a try, and hope it will get boosts soon to it's skills.
I was hoping techer would have better support skills and above all, better pp skills. The worst is that the pp skills are so far down the skill trees which makes it hard to get them and other skills. They could have at least put one of them higher into the tree.

[HFlowen]

Out of curiosity, have you tested the effective range of TB'd S/D on a party member? I have this vain hope that the range is longer than what the visual effect of the spell is.

One of my team members asked about this too, it doesn't have much magic phantom range.

Territory burst does help, I mean, it's better than nothing. It just isn't worth a huge investment. 1-4 points for a decent active time, tops.


Side note: Where the fudge does megiverse come from? I'm not dropping 700k or whatever the shops are asking for to get it.

[gigawuts]

Based on the element of the wand. Might be worthwhile to get a few different element wands for that reason.

I'm still curious to know if the explosions damage is boosted by your skilltree mastery.

Finally, a reason to buy more than one weapon.

Does it inflict status effects based on the element, or is that just an affix thing like other weapons?

[Omega-z]

It's true Darki that the duration is pretty lame, but I work around it. And the Distance is not a problem for front line casting. But the boost's are good for Techer. But S/D are sub par for Force since the New mechanic's to S/D require's you to cast it twice more often. so Charged doesn't work as great any more and uncharged is better for combat and since Force won't waste the pp to do this Techer is a better choice. Well until the Combo classes.

[gigawuts]

What do you mean the new mechanic requires you to cast twice as often, and uncharged S&D is better in combat?

[Coatl]

So what are some good sub class combinations for techer? I was thinking hunter and and techer, but I realized the two don't compliment each other too well besides both being melee combat. And to use just guard we'd have to sacrifice wand gear, the only thing that makes techer a techer.

[gigawuts]

Poison ignition on a hunter or fighter would be handy, plus shifta critical and fury critical may stack nicely. Emphasis on "may." PP regen buffs work independently of your equipped weapon - so any class subbed as a techer with investments in the PP stuff will benefit with any weapon held. On force it would be nice to have wands. Poison ignition might be particularly good on fighter due to the weapons having far more hits and needing to be that much closer than hunter.

Then there's the S&D range, which would arguably be best suited to a non-fo. S&D don't benefit from high t-atk and thus aren't penalized by low t-atk. If you don't inherit stats of your sub at all, I expect a lot of super-damage rangers to sub as techer (as opposed to gunner for the r-atk buff, if they DID inherit stats of the subclass).

[Spellbinder]

What do you mean the new mechanic requires you to cast twice as often, and uncharged S&D is better in combat?

Also wondering what these new Shifta mechanics are.

[Carillon]

if fighter stances work with techs, they'd be a really strong sub.
if they don't, there'll be no reason to ever swing a wand with force sub.
(RA/GU are both basically useless to techer. hunter only really offers hp/sdef)

somebody got a stance and a duel gaze?

[Dinosaur]

Also wondering what these new Shifta mechanics are.

I think he just means how they function in comparison to previous games, such as having to stay in a Shifta buff circle for 4 paces to get full duration and S/D's significantly shorter up-time(which means you must cast it more often).


(RA/GU are both basically useless to techer. hunter only really offers hp/sdef)

TE/RA can play heavy support with "Weak Bullet" and buffs
TE/GU can take advantage of "Zero Distance"(damage up when close), "PP attack restore", and even "Chain Trigger" for an offensive TE style.

[jooozek]

I've checked the http://wikiwiki.asia/pso2/ wiki and it claims that it should use 25PP on level 10 (http://sadpanda.us/images/1211888-I7T1T5U.png). Was it always 23 on level 10?

[Carillon]

TE/RA can play heavy support with "Weak Bullet" and buffs
TE/GU can take advantage of "Zero Distance"(damage up when close), "PP attack restore", and even "Chain Trigger" for an offensive TE style.

RA/TE or even FO/RA does that better. you can't use weakbullet effectively with wands, and if you're not using wands, FO is strictly better.

zero range only works with mech guns (according to the gu thread, anyway). you'd get more PPgain/damage out of a FO sub anyway. chain trigger can't be used effectively with wands because of it's stupid slow attack, and if you're not using wands...

[Slidikins]

TE/RA can play heavy support with "Weak Bullet" and buffsI plan to go RA/TE which I believe does this better. Shifta and Deband don't rely on T-Atk, so it doesn't matter what weapon you cast it with to get the full benefit. (Resta does depend on it, I believe.) Also, you don't have to worry about being up close and personal when it comes to hitting Weak Bullet points.

Getting the benefits of Ranger as a Techer seems a bit contrived. Rangers get a lot of damage from hitting weak points, which is just harder to do as a melee-oriented character. Traps may be a lot more useful, though, since you're always up close to lay one.

[dablacksephiroth]

Am I the only one who got shifta on subpalette and selected it to just press B whenever I want 30 seconds of shifta? That takes 2 seconds at best. If you run, and launch the uncharged shifta, it will stop you, before you get outside of the radius you will be hit already by both ticks.

No, you are definitely not. Not as long as I'm playing this game.

I'm a damage-whore and I can't stand not being at my maximum unless a situation demands I refrain, which is only when doing personal Time Attacks and I know the final room's enemies are on their least of HP enough that the boost isn't necessary to cast then.

I also play with Health Bars turned on. While I may love seeing my maximum output, I love more making sure other players are healthy, saving their restoratives and also at THEIR maximum output.

Again, unless it's a Time Attack, they must fend for themselves to improve our teamwork unless it's absolutely necessary I throw them a charged support that will guaruntee we'll shave time.



I do all this as Force. Can care less about this 'extended range' boost that Techer's got. But it just baffles me when I hear using Technique support boosts is 'too inconvenient' to be worthwhile to cast, ever. PP isn't difficult to quickly recover.

Using 2 seconds for 60 seconds is decently good enough for a low-level cast, restoring others their strength/stamina is self-rewarding, and both adds some extra versatility to gameplay outside the constantly spammed Rafoie.

I'm probably gonna cry when Lv11-20 Shifta or 41-50 finally make it here. Longer durations tend to make me forget a lot more to rebuff when I'm adjusted to "It's long enough to stop caring." thoughts, and then there's no display timer until I open the Character Info menu... (which I don't/won't do often) :D

[Courina]

uh pardon if anyone already answer this earlier... since trying read 22 pages is seriously ... uh...

Question : Territory burst are Wand only or you can use other weapon like talis?

[Eternal255]

uh pardon if anyone already answer this earlier... since trying read 22 pages is seriously ... uh...

Question : Territory burst are Wand only or you can use other weapon like talis?

テリトリーバースト Territory Burst

For a limited time, support technic’s effective range increases


its a support tech range increase? i believe it is a skill you cast, then you cast the spells and the skill cools down shortly after

for those questioning techer, i agree with what i read on a post on the first couple pages. I think techers effectiveness lies in melee damage with support for classes around them. for example, i play a fighter now and hunter prior and i would always have to back out and heal if i took too much damage but not effectively dodging an attack.

with a techer in the lines up front, they would be able to cast their area heal and shifta/deband to help the rest of us fighting up front, or even stand back helping the rangers while blasting with techs if they choose.

I plan on subbing techer as opposed to force on my fighter when sub classes are released assuming they get skill tree bonuses. I want resta and s/d on fighter would be extremely useful, and i plan on speccing into dark for character based purposes only. (I dont plan on using other techs besides dark/light as a FI/TE) wand gear is there for shits. here's the spec im leaning towards though it may change if i ever get to playing techer before the next update (with 17 points im not sure where to put)

http://ryuhiroshi.ry.funpic.de/pso2/techer.html?01TE!IOI2GOdqf4Nlkf

[dablacksephiroth]

So I'm not really following, guys.

The last page I remember reading had a video demonstration of a Lv20 Techer doing stuff.

Which page of this thread or... hell, which ability in these talents says Shifta/Deband can be cast instantly(uncharged, non-JA'd) and still receive its full duration and buff boost?

[Courina]

so... im assume i can use territory burst, throw talis , cast shifta / Deband , and bam, remote wide Buff?

[Coatl]

so... im assume i can use territory burst, throw talis , cast shifta / Deband , and bam, remote wide Buff?

Yes. That is correct.

[Blundy]

speaking of shifta and deband i was wondering if you could stockpile "ticks" ? For instance would rapidly casting one or the other without charging multiple times up your duration or is there some kind of hard cap/maximum duration?

seems like a silly question i know, but i find myself wondering~

[Alisha]

im interested in this class because ive never liked the idea of of nuking mage. in PSO i played a melee fomarl using buffs/debuffs/heals and throwing out an occasional grants on those melee resist dark gunners and dark berla's. hopefully i can do something similar with subclasses added in.

[dablacksephiroth]

speaking of shifta and deband i was wondering if you could stockpile "ticks" ? For instance would rapidly casting one or the other without charging multiple times up your duration or is there some kind of hard cap/maximum duration?

seems like a silly question i know, but i find myself wondering~
Yes.

If you perform an uncharged cast of Shifta/Deband, 2 ticks will leave you with a 30 second duration. Cast again and you will be able to achieve 60 seconds if you receive the 4th tick.

But casting a 3rd time for 6 total ticks will NOT net you 90 seconds. You can not exceed 60 seconds as of Shifta Lv10. Or at least, not without the advanced talents in Techer.

You can view your duration and make your own test efforts by casting and then open your "Character Info" window. Under the "Current status" window will be displayed all your current buffs and some of their duration times.

Unless I'm missing something, why would you do this at 40 PP's worth versus one single 20 PP Charged cast?

[Blundy]

No real reason, in general i throw the big one and then tap small ones from time to time to keep it up, the uncharged was merely an example; i was also wondering if you could do a charged one wait for it to finish and then charge up another one for roughly double the duration to keep it going longer, but you answered my question.

I was thinking if it did work that way territory boost would make sense, you'd use it and then rotate shift and deband quickly to create a wide long duration buff by stacking ticks. But i guess that would be too cool~

You seem to imply that Techer has something to increase the duration: "You can not exceed 60 seconds as of Shifta Lv10. Or at least, not without the advanced talents in Techer."

but i do not believe that is the case.

[dablacksephiroth]

No real reason, in general i throw the big one and then tap small ones from time to time to keep it up, the uncharged was merely an example; i was also wondering if you could do a charged one wait for it to finish and then charge up another one for roughly double the duration to keep it going longer, but you answered my question.

I was thinking if it did work that way territory boost would make sense, you'd use it and then rotate shift and deband quickly to create a wide long duration buff by stacking ticks. But i guess that would be too cool~

You seem to imply that Techer has something to increase the duration: "You can not exceed 60 seconds as of Shifta Lv10. Or at least, not without the advanced talents in Techer."

but i do not believe that is the case.Oops, I now see where I got my confusion about that.. and after another read, I finally understand he means further increasing the Range Boost talent beyond 5 points will only extend ITS duration... not, Shifta/Deband.



EDIT: So I just reached territory burst level 10. Have some comparison shots:

[spoiler-box]Here is shifta w/o territory burst:
http://imageshack.us/a/img269/1084/pso20120915130355000.jpg
With territory burst 10:
http://imageshack.us/a/img805/7146/pso20120915130402001.jpg[/spoiler-box]

This blew my mind, why would you even go past level 5 with this skill if there's no benefit other than another 6 or so seconds of active time?

[Omega-z]

dablacksephiroth - actually it maybe better to do two uncharges since this patch has now somewhat broken the full charged one's duration times. Sometimes they don't give the full 1 min all the time. And this is me standing there holding the tech for 10 sec's before casting and get only 30 sec with it. Plus too it help's more in battle not to charge your S&D since it gives you more speed. And that too to help promote Techer's more with S&D, since 40 pp is not a problem for it unlike a force. but force's have the time they need to do the charges tho but Techer's don't being front lines.

[dablacksephiroth]

dablacksephiroth - actually it maybe better to do two uncharges since this patch has now somewhat broken the full charged one's duration times. Sometimes they don't give the full 1 min all the time. And this is me standing there holding the tech for 10 sec's before casting and get only 30 sec with it. Plus too it help's more in battle not to charge your S&D since it gives you more speed. And that too to help promote Techer's more with S&D, since 40 pp is not a problem for it unlike a force. but force's have the time they need to do the charges tho but Techer's don't being front lines.

Hehhhh, if you're sure you're sure you're not receiving the full duration of a charged buff technique even after sitting through at least 3 of the ticks, then this will require some thorough examination from me to see it going, myself.

Just to be clear though, you have charged fully and cast (on the ground preferably), you did not immediately change weapons to say Gunslash, see the buff blink/tick 3 times of the 4 on yourself and Character Info window's Current status menu doesn't show you at 0:50-0:59?

That's frightening. :<

[IzzyData]

Unless I'm missing something, why would you do this at 40 PP's worth versus one single 20 PP Charged cast?

Not everything is about pp efficiency. Speed is still a factor. I probably wouldn't do 2 uncharged shifta's but I'd definitely do 1.

[dablacksephiroth]

Not everything is about pp efficiency. Speed is still a factor. I probably wouldn't do 2 uncharged shifta's but I'd definitely do 1.

My mindset is still in that of my particular Force build, where I forget others may not have PP refill (which also means they don't have Tech Speed Charge). And even though this is a Techer thread, I honestly forget the Techer class exists when examining a question like this that isn't specifying a class they'd plan to use these maneuvers on. A small assumption immediately that they're referring to Force.

In the efficient Force world, they're definitely in the Fire tree down to PP Recharge, so they're bound to have 5 points in Speed Charge too, and with no one really caring to cast Deband, it's pretty safe to assume Shifta is the only buff of concern.

For speed, you wouldn't want to throw out 2 Uncharges and sap a quick 40pp instead of 1 quick Charge that is even refilling PP as it's charging and will cost less and grant full duration if you're not throwing the buff mid-air(lol), because now you're left with 4 good offensive casts than 5 (because Rafoielol) before needing to refill.

Alas, you are right in that, when the player does not own my spoiled set-up, though.

[Blundy]

oh yeah so deband 'cut' is a flat 10% damage reduction at max right? I may pursue it when they give us 50 since i'm pretty sure that means 10 more points.

[moeri]

http://ryuhiroshi.ry.funpic.de/pso2/techer.html?01TE!IOI2GBesIbqnqOHNIbf

current planned tree...

I really don;t see much to go for anymore

[AutoTranslator]

http://ryuhiroshi.ry.funpic.de/pso2/techer.html?01TE!IOI2GBesIbqnqOHNIbf

current planned tree...

I really don;t see much to go for anymore
Shifta Critical seemed out of place.

[Omega-z]

dablacksephiroth - Yeah, waited for a full charge and wait 3x the time before releasing it and waited for the 4 tick's without switching. And it came out around 27-28 second's on the Character Info. Now it could be possible the time goes faster maybe but I even checked for this too. So, Not sure if it's faster or not. But Charge is broken at the moment. Oh, good new's the other two bugs are gone which had been there before tho. And Deband cut Reduce's all damage by 10% was taking less damage from Lava which is cool. That too only your Deband will activated it, so no one's else Deband will work for you but your's will work on other's tho that are near you.

[IzzyData]

So I've run out of skills that I know I want to have. Not really sure where to go from here. I don't want to bother going down the deband side of the tree and into light or dark mastery because it wont be beneficial enough for me as a wind melee spec. This is where I am at now.

http://ryuhiroshi.funpic.de/pso2/techer.html?01TE!IOI2GBdqIk0

I don't have any intention of using techer as a subclass only. That is why I am not skipping down to the pp efficiency skills to be used with a force main. The rest of my skill points probably wont make too much of a difference in damage output, but I only get to do this once so I'd still like to be satisfied with my choice.

t-atk 2 wind build
http://ryuhiroshi.funpic.de/pso2/techer.html?01TE!IOI2GOdqGKIk8

shifta crit build
http://ryuhiroshi.funpic.de/pso2/techer.html?01TE!IOI2GO2X4X0

Shifta + t-atk 2
http://ryuhiroshi.funpic.de/pso2/techer.html?01TE!IOI2GBdwqxIk8

Again, the point is for using techer as an offensive main class with most likely force as an offclass depending on however that system will work.

[Dammy]

im thinking of this
http://ryuhiroshi.ry.funpic.de/pso2/techer.html?01TE!IOI2kbdqIbqndxfcKf

[Spellbinder]

So I've run out of skills that I know I want to have. Not really sure where to go from here. I don't want to bother going down the deband side of the tree and into light or dark mastery because it wont be beneficial enough for me as a wind melee spec. This is where I am at now.

http://ryuhiroshi.funpic.de/pso2/techer.html?01TE!IOI2GBdqIk0

I don't have any intention of using techer as a subclass only. That is why I am not skipping down to the pp efficiency skills to be used with a force main. The rest of my skill points probably wont make too much of a difference in damage output, but I only get to do this once so I'd still like to be satisfied with my choice.

t-atk 2 wind build
http://ryuhiroshi.funpic.de/pso2/techer.html?01TE!IOI2GOdqGKIk8

shifta crit build
http://ryuhiroshi.funpic.de/pso2/techer.html?01TE!IOI2GO2X4X0

Shifta + t-atk 2
http://ryuhiroshi.funpic.de/pso2/techer.html?01TE!IOI2GBdwqxIk8

Again, the point is for using techer as an offensive main class with most likely force as an offclass depending on however that system will work.

Considering what your goal is, I'd go for the Shifta Critical build, take the 3 points out of PP Up, and go for Deband Cut when the level cap goes to 50 to help make yourself (and team mates) beefier on the front lines.

[Crevox]

im thinking of this
http://ryuhiroshi.ry.funpic.de/pso2/techer.html?01TE!IOI2kbdqIbqndxfcKf

This is an effective ignition build. Deband cut is pretty good.

No complaints here! The only suggestion is maybe 1 point into territory burst because it's right there, and it's usually pretty effective at just 1 point, but it's not that good anyways.

[IzzyData]

Considering what your goal is, I'd go for the Shifta Critical build, take the 3 points out of PP Up, and go for Deband Cut when the level cap goes to 50 to help make yourself (and team mates) beefier on the front lines.

I'll keep that in mind.

[SPOnion]

Deband Cut only reduces the damage you take by 10% at lv 10...So I really don't think it is THAT good.

http://ryuhiroshi.ry.funpic.de/pso2/techer.html?01TE!IOI24OdqIb4NtAHNc2f

What my build ended up. 6 SP in Light Mastery because I planned to max it at first. But Poison Ignition seems nice anyway so I changed to that half way. Well, 50 cd is at least acceptable, it's not like I'm running into high HP minions that often. Besides, once the 50 cap is there it could be easily be 30 CD.

I cannot say I'm very satisfied with this build mainly because it's not used at full potential. Pointblank Zan rapes so I'd really want a 120% wind mastery, Poison Ignition is good but it's not 30 CD, Light is overall good but without PP Rev the 2sp/s does not feel that impressive neither, since you'll be either hitting with a wand or gunslash.

On the other hand, I do feel the melee damage of TE has great potential. My normal is doing like 400/hit against FC enemies (all though it's dark elemental), and my T-ATK is only 3 digit (albeit with a +10 8s wand). The only problem I'm having now is the melee defenses. Without JG they are meat, totally meat. Banthor and Banshee are still a headache. And in order to get high damage as well as defense you need a fighter MAG instead of a FO MAG...the later of which happens to be mine.

I guess the situation will be better for those with a Melee Mag that enables them to wear the 422/431 Melee Defense armors.

[Dammy]

Deband Cut only reduces the damage you take by 10% at lv 10...So I really don't think it is THAT good.



The only problem I'm having now is the melee defenses. Without JG they are meat, totally meat. Banthor and Banshee are still a headache.

I guess the situation will be better for those with a Melee Mag that enables them to wear the 422/431 Melee Defense armors.
you have answered to yourself

[SPOnion]

2 hits and die is still 2 hits and die even with deband cut. "2 hits" is kind of exaggerated but that is what I feel when soloing Banthor and Banshee. It is basically a 10% HP up and currently no class has like enough HP to make the 10% worth it. If you are taking 170 damage per hit, it is not inspiring to see that you are now taking 156 damge with 10SP.

[Dammy]

i mean wearing 9* HU units under effect of deband + deband cut will make you laugh at incoming damage
p.s. sorry if my answer look kinda rude, i didnt want it to be like that

[SPOnion]

On that apsect, 10 damage to 9 damage, or 100 to 90....I'd rather put them into XXX mastery to do more damage.

If it is 20%, I might consider about it. If it's 25%, I'll seriously consider it. Yet the 10% at 10 SP feels...rather weird. It's like they want you to do support but don't want you to do support at all at the same time.

Edit: it's totally fine. I don't feel anything offensive in it anyway XD

[Dammy]

dont forget that it works for everyone around you, so you helping those fighters/hunters/techers too

[Helza[France]]

Huh:x I'm totally confuse about techer ~~
I read all of this and i really don't know what tree i have to use to be efficient .
PP restore and poison ignition seems good?
Force with techer in sub can be a good choice for october?
Thanks:)

[IzzyData]

you have answered to yourself

Yup, by level 30 I will be able to use the best wands while my hunter mag is equipped. But I'm going to make a s-atk, s-def and t-atk Karina mag just for techer anyway.

[Pirrip]

;2858922']Huh:x I'm totally confuse about techer ~~
I read all of this and i really don't know what tree i have to use to be efficient .
PP restore and poison ignition seems good?
Force with techer in sub can be a good choice for october?
Thanks:)

We're still up in the air about what would be most efficient. But you ought to pick what skills you'd find more advantageous to your playstyle.

So far, we've all mostly agreed that PP Restraint is very valueable if you max it out since it passively refills your PP very quickly. (Which will come in handy especially if it carries over into the subclass system)

Poison ignition looks like it will do loads of damage in the case that you can set it off under the right conditions.

T-ATK Up is always good and (depending on what your mag looks like) may be neccessary for equipping better wands.

Speaking of wands, the Wand Gear gives you the potential for excellent melee damage. And Zan is a pretty over-powered skill that you can use in a variety of situations if you want to invest in that.--Although light mastery will be useful, alternatively, since all Darkers will be weak to Grants and Gigrants.

I'm still unsure of where I'll spend my points by the time I hit 40(my Techer is 21, now).

You may notice that I've not mentioned territory boost or shifta and deband advance. Territory boost doesn't extend out as far as I'd like and lasts for such a brief period of time. And I think that-at this point in the game-Shifta is going to be a more valuable skill in a party than deband.

This will be mine, I think, so I can pump even more points into T-ATK when the level cap rises.
http://ryuhiroshi.ry.funpic.de/pso2/techer.html?01TE!IOI2GBdqqq4NqnHNj

[Mystil]

With the exception of PSU, deband has historically been a taboo buff to use, with the whole high def rating removing the far more important knockdown factor from mobs. However that isn't the case in PSO2. I wouldnt count out Deband just yet.

[Eman2417]

http://ryuhiroshi.ry.funpic.de/pso2/techer.html?01TE!IOI24OdqIb4NqnHN4QIS
This is my plan, but how exactly do we get that extra 5 SP? Do we have a 5sp quest reward like the original 3 classes?

[FenixStryk]

I'm having serious Techer's Remorse. This class has so many holes in its design, especially in its skill tree... *sigh*

If I had a skill tree reset, I'd probably go for Dextro's build:
http://ryuhiroshi.ry.funpic.de/pso2/techer.html?01TE!IOI24Odqf4NqnHNcFf

I don't think Restraint + Ignition is enough to end up equal to FO's capabilities, but there's nothing else in this tree that gives TE a leg up over FO. TE's best chance at being good is in this build.


But I don't have that build.

In fact, I dumped 23 points into skills that aren't in that build.

I'm sitting on this:
http://ryuhiroshi.ry.funpic.de/pso2/techer.html?01TE!IOI2kb2SIk0
And there's not much else to do with it to make this better at what it does. Wind Mastery + Shifta Critical gives me a ~21% boost to my Zan damage. Great. But by 50 cap, FO will offer +30% to all techs.

Trying to turn this class into a Zan spammer was a huge mistake. And I can't turn this build into anything else. I could try grabbing Ignition, but it wouldn't be as good as Dextro's build. And I could pump TATK Up, but +100 TATK and +5 PP is still a monstrous waste of SP for what it offers. There's nothing meaningful to dump my free 15 SP into because I've shoehorned myself into something that's inferior.

What a drag...