50hz and 60hz

[staticlive]

Hey i just noticed that when i go to play PSO on my dreamcast which i still do... that when i go to play on 60hz the screen is flickering constantly but when i play on 50hz its just normal, now i fear that when i play PSOX i will have to use 50hz which means i have limitations online... does anyone have any ways round this except for buying a new TV? its an xbox btw.

I didnt just notice just it used to work on 60hz


<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: staticlive on 2003-03-29 11:48 ]</font>

[Getintothegame]

How are you connecting to your TV? (the 3 prong thingie or RF)

[staticlive]

Via scart lead but it aint with the 3 different colour things... well on my xbox i am but not on my dreamcast

[Getintothegame]

So, on your DC you connect differently than the 3-prong things, and that flickers?

If you have the 3 prong thing on your XBOX, It shouldn't mess up, but I don't know much about that.

[staticlive]

Yeah my xbox is connected just with the normal 3 different colour things but my DC is connected with the normal scart lead..... so it isnt my TV?

[Mik2121]

My TV accepts 60hz mode, so, i'll play by this way.
I readed somewhere that if I play in 50hz I can only play with people with these config. but if I play with 60hz I can play everywhere [Europe, Usa and Japan servers], is it true? [Oh.. i'm speaking about the Gamecube version http://www.pso-world.com/psoworld/images/phpbb/icons/smiles/icon_wink.gif]

[staticlive]

yeah thats right


Listen i would to apologise for this topic as i just connected to PSo and 60hz worked.... i think its just cos my DC is old and os is PSOv.2 and its starting to get scratched

[Mik2121]

Thanks Staticlive!.

Why don't you stop playing PSO in DC and start playing in in the XBOX or GC?...

[staticlive]

I live in Uk and it isnt set for release til may 16th or 30th rumoured and i cant play imported games can i

[staticlive]

I would if i had an Gamecube and i live in Uk so i gotta wait for it to come out here some time in May and i cant import can i?

[Polenicus]

On 2003-03-29 12:22, Mik2121 wrote:
Thanks Staticlive!.

Why don't you stop playing PSO in DC and start playing in in the XBOX or GC?...



Probably because the Xbox version hasn't come out yet.

[staticlive]

Correct

[Mik2121]

Oh sorry, I only pay attention to the Gamecube releases http://www.pso-world.com/psoworld/images/phpbb/icons/smiles/icon_smile.gif

[staticlive]

Lol

[EVILzombie]

HA sucks for YOU!! lol lol lol lol! HAHAHAHAHAHAHA!

[Barubary6]

50 Hz players can only play with 50 Hz players, and 60 Hz players can only play with 60 Hz players. On Xbox, all this means is that you play with a different set of Europeans. Unlike the Gamecube version, where only 60 Hz players can play with Japanese and American players, international play is not possible at all with Xbox PSO. So there's little difference, although I imagine more people like the 60 Hz mode.

-- Barubary

[Mik2121]

http://www.pso-world.com/psoworld/images/phpbb/icons/smiles/icon_no.gif EVILzombie you are mad http://www.pso-world.com/psoworld/images/phpbb/icons/smiles/icon_no.gif

[Mik2121]

Ehmm.. sure sure.. Xbox is better than GC.. and NES goes faster than Xbox http://www.pso-world.com/psoworld/images/phpbb/icons/smiles/icon_wink.gif

[2Xtreme]

The following is from the forrum rules, which you should read here (http://www.pso-world.com/viewtopic.php?topic=31004&forum=1&8).

No "Lamers". Think before you post. Make sure your post will not offend others. Please try to stay on topic in accordance with the original post. Please try to keep your language clean if possible. We're a forum, not a bar or pub. Do not respond to flamebait. We'll handle it.

Flamebaiting, or throwing remarks at users in attempt to get them to flame you, is just as bad as flaming. Do not start fights. Inciting fights will warrant a warning.

Do not 'hijack' other peoples' threads. This is considered to be rude behaviour. If you wish to continue a conversation with one particular person which has no bearing on the original topic, please take it to Private Mail.

The forrum rules fail to mention that arguing about trivial, infantile things like "Which console is best", as well as showing allegiance or loyalty to a peice of electronic equipment, not only makes you look stupid but also proves that you have way too much free time on your hands.

[staticlive]

Considering the fact i play my xbox 2 times a week if i'm lucky shows i hardly have any free time... am always out

[Mik2121]

2Xtreme is the law http://www.pso-world.com/psoworld/images/phpbb/icons/smiles/icon_eek.gif

Don't you think so?..

[staticlive]

LOL btw i delted that post that broke the rules

[RuneLateralus]

Listen, stop with dumb spam, lamer posts, and personal shots. If someone doesn't listen to this, the thread gets locked and the person will get a warning.



<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: RuneLateralus on 2003-03-29 22:19 ]</font>

[IceBlink]

On 2003-03-29 14:30, Barubary6 wrote:
So there's little difference, although I imagine more people like the 60 Hz mode.

-- Barubary

There is quite a difference. Imagine playing PSO in slow motion, and you have 50Hz. ^_^

*urgs at the time when he had to play it in that mode*

[RiGoRmOrTiS_UK]

would'nt worry abut 50hz60hz on xbox pso since you cant play with anyone outside your country anyway.. meaning they only need to include optimised full-screen fullspeed 50hz. which is what alomst all PAL xbox games are in... bar mech assault and other online games.

[staticlive]

60hz is alot better and i am sure nearly everyone will be using the 60hz option

[BrokenHope]

On 2003-03-29 22:23, IceBlink wrote:


On 2003-03-29 14:30, Barubary6 wrote:
So there's little difference, although I imagine more people like the 60 Hz mode.

-- Barubary

There is quite a difference. Imagine playing PSO in slow motion, and you have 50Hz. ^_^

*urgs at the time when he had to play it in that mode*



You also forgot the annoying flicker than gives you a headache and the fact that foie moves so slow in battle mode you can dodge it without even trying O_o

[Mik2121]

You also forgot the annoying flicker than gives you a headache and the fact that foie moves so slow in battle mode you can dodge it without even trying O_o



Humm.. can you explain it to me?.. i don't understand http://www.pso-world.com/psoworld/images/phpbb/icons/smiles/icon_smile.gif

[RiGoRmOrTiS_UK]

On 2003-03-30 04:46, Mik2121 wrote:



You also forgot the annoying flicker than gives you a headache and the fact that foie moves so slow in battle mode you can dodge it without even trying O_o



Humm.. can you explain it to me?.. i don't understand http://www.pso-world.com/psoworld/images/phpbb/icons/smiles/icon_smile.gif




dont worry, you only get 50hz flicker on crappy TV's (or bordered unoptimised PAL software..i.e. FFX). 60Hz is nicer... but 50hz Fully optimised, Full Screen PAL is way way better than NTSC.

as for things going slower.."only in unoptimised PAL". Gamecube's 50hz is fully optimised and runs at the same speed as 60hz.. (just the timing will be a little off.. thus no good for online play with NTSC people.)



<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: RiGoRmOrTiS_UK on 2003-03-30 06:54 ]</font>

[BrokenHope]

On 2003-03-30 06:53, RiGoRmOrTiS_UK wrote:


On 2003-03-30 04:46, Mik2121 wrote:



You also forgot the annoying flicker than gives you a headache and the fact that foie moves so slow in battle mode you can dodge it without even trying O_o



Humm.. can you explain it to me?.. i don't understand http://www.pso-world.com/psoworld/images/phpbb/icons/smiles/icon_smile.gif




dont worry, you only get 50hz flicker on crappy TV's (or bordered unoptimised PAL software..i.e. FFX). 60Hz is nicer... but 50hz Fully optimised, Full Screen PAL is way way better than NTSC.

as for things going slower.."only in unoptimised PAL". Gamecube's 50hz is fully optimised and runs at the same speed as 60hz.. (just the timing will be a little off.. thus no good for online play with NTSC people.)



<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: RiGoRmOrTiS_UK on 2003-03-30 06:54 ]</font>


ugh, so much wrong with this post.

The screen flickers more in 50hz for the simple fact the screen is updated less often. Also full screen pal optimized for speed is no where near the quality of 60hz, you maybe able to get the speed somewhat the same but you can't get the smoothness, your losing frames per second in 50hz no matter what they do, it will always be noticably jerky compared to the 60hz version. Btw the 50hz and 60hz mode on GC is no different to any other console, how well a game is optimized is down to the developers.

Also if you say its because of crappy tvs(which it isn't) do a simple test, set your pc monitor to a 60hz refresh then set it to 70hz, the 70hz will barely flicker compared to the 60hz one and computer monitors are many times better quality than even the best tvs.

[RiGoRmOrTiS_UK]

ugh, so much wrong with this post.

The screen flickers more in 50hz for the simple fact the screen is updated less often. Also full screen pal optimized for speed is no where near the quality of 60hz, you maybe able to get the speed somewhat the same but you can't get the smoothness, your losing frames per second in 50hz no matter what they do, it will always be noticably jerky compared to the 60hz version. Btw the 50hz and 60hz mode on GC is no different to any other console, how well a game is optimized is down to the developers.

Also if you say its because of crappy tvs(which it isn't) do a simple test, set your pc monitor to a 60hz refresh then set it to 70hz, the 70hz will barely flicker compared to the 60hz one and computer monitors are many times better quality than even the best tvs.



lol dont give me that I know 50hz and 60hz are diffrence refresh rates... 50hz Optimised PAL interlaces frames correctly so there is no major decernable diffrence in framerate. On top of that the resolution of PAL is a good 200 lines better than NTSC along with the fact that colours are more faithfully recreated in PAL signals. 60Hz pal isnt actually 60Hz.. its still outputting at 50Hz (while working in 60hz internally).. the only diffrence (and the reason it wont work on older TVs) is that the sync rate is no longer sent with the signal (otherwise you'd have it working on old TV's but with splicedcorrupted interlaced frames).

a good way to demonstrate is to get a PAL X-box and put in a region 0 NTSC disc. The xbox isnt intelligent enough to change its video output to NTSC and you get corrupt interlaced frames.

as for the mointor refresh rate.. yes your right.. but a PC's VGA signal is neither PAL or NTSC.. its something entirly diffrent. PC's dont interlace frames like PAL.. so refresh rate is very important.

I'm not saying 50hz is better overall (since its rarely optmised properly..except in movies)..However what I will say is both 50hz and pesudo 60hz PAL is better than NTSC.

<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: RiGoRmOrTiS_UK on 2003-03-30 07:34 ]</font>


<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: RiGoRmOrTiS_UK on 2003-03-30 07:36 ]</font>

[BrokenHope]

On 2003-03-30 07:20, RiGoRmOrTiS_UK wrote:



ugh, so much wrong with this post.

The screen flickers more in 50hz for the simple fact the screen is updated less often. Also full screen pal optimized for speed is no where near the quality of 60hz, you maybe able to get the speed somewhat the same but you can't get the smoothness, your losing frames per second in 50hz no matter what they do, it will always be noticably jerky compared to the 60hz version. Btw the 50hz and 60hz mode on GC is no different to any other console, how well a game is optimized is down to the developers.

Also if you say its because of crappy tvs(which it isn't) do a simple test, set your pc monitor to a 60hz refresh then set it to 70hz, the 70hz will barely flicker compared to the 60hz one and computer monitors are many times better quality than even the best tvs.



lol dont give me that I know 50hz and 60hz are diffrence refresh rates... 50hz Optimised PAL interlaces frames correctly so there is no major decernable diffrence in framerate. On top of that the resolution of PAL is a good 200 lines better than NTSC along with the fact that colours are more faithfully recreated in PAL signals. 60Hz pal isnt actually 60Hz.. its still outputting at 50Hz (while working in 60hz internally).. the only diffrence (and the reason it wont work on older TVs) is that the sync rate is no longer sent with the signal (otherwise you'd have it working on old TV's but with splicedcorrupted interlaced frames).

a good way to demonstrate is to get a PAL X-box and put in a region 0 NTSC disc. The xbox isnt intelligent enough to change its video output to NTSC and you get corrupt interlaced frames.

as for the mointor refresh rate.. yes your right.. but a PC's VGA signal is neither PAL or NTSC.. its something entirly diffrent. PC's dont interlace frames like PAL.. so refresh rate is very important.

I'm not saying 50hz is better overall (since its rarely optmised properly..except in movies)..However what I will say is both 50hz and pesudo 60hz PAL is better than NTSC.

<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: RiGoRmOrTiS_UK on 2003-03-30 07:34 ]</font>


<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: RiGoRmOrTiS_UK on 2003-03-30 07:36 ]</font>

Again your proving you don't know what you are talking about, you make the same mistake as most people thinking that PAL 60 keeps the PAL resolution but also adopts the NTSC refresh rate, this isn't the case. yes PAL 50 has higher resolution and yes the colour is better due to a higher bandwidth carrier, but PAL 60 is in 60hz, the resolution and refresh rate on PAL 60 is identical to NTSC the only difference is it still uses a PAL colour carrier which is why you don't need a NTSC compatible tv in order to use PAL 60 just one capable of syncing to a 60hz refresh rate. Seriously why the hell would they call it pal 60 if it wasn't outputting a 60hz signal, i don't know where you are getting your info but it's wrong.

The reason for the xbox problem is because an unmodified xbox is unable to output a NTSC singal unless told to do so via a video mode select disk which can be downloaded from the internet.

Also if you can't tell the difference between full screen 50hz and 60hz then you must be the one with the crappy tv because through rgb scart the difference is easily noticable.

Considering RGB scart is one of the major standards PAL or NTSC colours don't make a difference, RGB is the exact colours that are outputted, it is neither PAL or NTSC(like a pc montitor only interlaced) and like a pc monitor a higher refresh rate is better than a lower one.



<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: Broken Hope on 2003-03-30 08:28 ]</font>

[Mik2121]

Well, let see.

I have a Sony TV that has 6 or 7 years.

When i start a game, if I press B, it appears an option asking me if I want to set the TV at 60Hz, if I don't acept, i can only play with people that have 50hz mode, if I agree, i can play with people from Europe, America and Asia, isn't it?

[RiGoRmOrTiS_UK]

Seriously why the hell would they call it pal 60 if it wasn't outputting a 60hz signal. i don't know where you are getting your info but it's wrong.


Processes internally at 60hz...thats why. Got info from a guy months back who just finished a masters degree in electrical engineering.. I also thought the same as you until we hooked some equipment up and found the sync rate was variable between 50hz - 55hz depending on the carrier differential... definatly higher then normal 50hz.. but highly random due to there being no sync infomation in the transmitted signal.. this was off a dreamcast fyi).



The reason for the xbox problem is because an unmodified xbox is unable to output a NTSC singal unless told to do so via a video mode select disk which can be downloaded from the internet.


and you tell me something I already know because?



Also if you can't tell the difference between full screen 50hz and 60hz then you must be the one with the crappy tv because through rgb scart the difference is easily noticable.


when did I say I couldnt see a diffrence. I said the diffrence was minimal.



Considering RGB scart is one of the major standards PAL or NTSC colours don't make a difference, RGB is the exact colours that are outputted, it is neither PAL or NTSC(like a pc montitor only interlaced) and like a pc monitor a higher refresh rate is better than a lower one.


I also never said 60hz was worse than 50hz. All I've been saying is NTSC isnt as good as PAL. and an RGB scart doesnt magically change how an NTSC signal handles colours.

[BrokenHope]

On 2003-03-30 08:36, Mik2121 wrote:
Well, let see.

I have a Sony TV that has 6 or 7 years.

When i start a game, if I press B, it appears an option asking me if I want to set the TV at 60Hz, if I don't acept, i can only play with people that have 50hz mode, if I agree, i can play with people from Europe, America and Asia, isn't it?



Correct if you tv is able to sync to the 60hz refresh which it should be able to.

[Mik2121]

Thanks!, Hey, nice Avatar http://www.pso-world.com/psoworld/images/phpbb/icons/smiles/icon_biggrin.gif http://www.pso-world.com/psoworld/images/phpbb/icons/smiles/icon_biggrin.gif

[BrokenHope]

On 2003-03-30 09:49, RiGoRmOrTiS_UK wrote:


Seriously why the hell would they call it pal 60 if it wasn't outputting a 60hz signal. i don't know where you are getting your info but it's wrong.


Processes internally at 60hz...thats why. Got info from a guy months back who just finished a masters degree in electrical engineering.. I also thought the same as you until we hooked some equipment up and found the sync rate was variable between 50hz - 55hz depending on the carrier differential... definatly higher then normal 50hz.. but highly random due to there being no sync infomation in the transmitted signal.. this was off a dreamcast fyi).



The reason for the xbox problem is because an unmodified xbox is unable to output a NTSC singal unless told to do so via a video mode select disk which can be downloaded from the internet.


and you tell me something I already know because?



Also if you can't tell the difference between full screen 50hz and 60hz then you must be the one with the crappy tv because through rgb scart the difference is easily noticable.


when did I say I couldnt see a diffrence. I said the diffrence was minimal.



Considering RGB scart is one of the major standards PAL or NTSC colours don't make a difference, RGB is the exact colours that are outputted, it is neither PAL or NTSC(like a pc montitor only interlaced) and like a pc monitor a higher refresh rate is better than a lower one.


I also never said 60hz was worse than 50hz. All I've been saying is NTSC isnt as good as PAL. and an RGB scart doesnt magically change how an NTSC signal handles colours.



I'm not going to bother arguing with someone who is so wrong, the fact you think NTSC colour handling matters when using RGB scart shows that you quite simply don't know much, RGB scart is direct colour transmission from the console, it is neither NTSC or PAL the colours are sent on seperate wires, they aren't passed on a low bandwidth singal all together, they are sent seperate at full bandwidth just like a pc monitor.

Also do you even have any NTSC equipment? cos quite frankly PAL 60 and NTSC refresh rate is identical the screen looks identical, the amount of flicker is identical they refresh at exactly the same rate at the exact same resolution. Also to say the difference is minimal is laughable, to go from a picture that flickers to one that is stable is a little more than minimal.

Also i think you will find if you knew anything about connection standards and tv standards that the sync singal is taken from the composite line, so to say there's no sync in the singal is again you proving your lack of knowledge.