Fighter/Techer advice

[Pandarino]

I have not as much time as I used to ...and so I'd like to ask some specifc questions and some generci advice this to the guys who might have already explored this combo.

1) is this a viable option at all?
2) is this any good for a NEWEARL or should I consider a CASEAL?
3) is this comparable to the effectiveness of a NEWEARL Force/techer?
4) any advices or builds or mag suggestions?

[Pirrip]

Well, the boost to technic damage that a newearl makes is more suited to Force/Techer. A Caseal would be better for Fighter, being that casts have higher striking damage output and higher striking defense. It really matters little what race and class you want unless you are driven to have those very few extra points of damage or defense.

I see the Fighter/Techer as -potentially- a very unique and fun combination. Here is what I'd do:
http://ryuhiroshi.ry.funpic.de/pso2/skillcalc.html?tQIYIkIYIkIYIkIYIkIYIkIYIkIbIn00000 0febHnGBboGFIbcA0000Ib00000ib0000Ib00000f4OIkldI2H SpF0008

If I were playing to make this my build, In the fighter tree, I would max out Chase Advance for that 40% boost to damage if the enemy is inflicted with a status effect. Then, in the Techer tree, I would invest some points into boosting poison status infliction, but max out poison ignition. Also Max out Shifta Advance, and Element Weak Hit(or PP Restorate if you'd rather... but you'd potentially do more damage with Element Weak Hit, I believe)

This way, if you can poison something with a megid technic or your weapon, you'll be able to not only have the enormous damage dealt with poison ignition, but if poison splashes to other enemies nearby when you ignite, then THEY'LL be affected by that 40% damage boost from Chase advance(of course, hitting it with your melee weapon. Your Poison Ignition should be recovering anyway).
And although I'm not %100 sure how Brave and Wise stance are affected by using Technics or Poison Ignition, I believe the damage will stack.

Also, if you're going for more DPS, and you want to redistribute your skill points make sure you don't take the point away from the Double Saber Gear.

If you want advice on mags, I would invest 67 points into Striking Defense(so that at Lv 60 in both classes you'll be able to equip the highest Striking Defense armor available now), 80 points into Striking Attack(So that at Lv 60 in both class you'll be able to equip the highest Striking Attack double sabers available now), and 3 levels into whatever you want.

If you were to go for a Caseal(or better yet, a male Cast), you'd have a little more freedom to distribute more points on your MAG). As I mentioned before, though, it makes little difference anyway. So long as you get the weapons and armor you want, that matters more.

I hope that helps. ^_^

[gigawuts]

The difference between races after mags, weapons, and skilltrees is negligible, aside from a relatively small amount of points in each stat that may help you meet an item's stat requirement. Go with what you think looks the best.

[FenixStryk]

FI/TE is a good combination. It gives your party two things it needs:
1) a guy in the front that can handle aggro
2) a healer / buffer

I would consider running a Caseal for it. You're not using Techer for the techniques, it's just there for Resta, Shifta, PP Restorate and (arguable) Poison Ignition. Play it like you would a typical Fighter.

If you're running Time Attack missions, the best composition on paper is three GU/RAs and a FI/TE.

[Pandarino]

Thank you for the replies and the ideas guys. keep them coming.

Pirrip, I l love the use of poison ignition that you suggest.

[Mega Ultra Chicken]

I really should have known about that Poison Ignition build. Now I'm sort of locked in to getting Halfline Slayer instead of Chase Advance, and I'd rather spend money on getting a defensive HU tree than another FI tree. Would it be better to tailor my TE tree for support or for Poison Ignition if I'm using a tree like this? (http://ryuhiroshi.ry.funpic.de/pso2/skillcalc.html) Also, I'm a Newm instead of a Caseal.

[Kondibon]

I think people forget about Crowd control techs and status effects. Like FenixStryk said you aren't doing it for damage, but RaZan, and Zondeel are good, not for their damage but for their ability to move enemies around. If you use Razan and then raging waltz you can easily knock tough enemies in to the air to get juggled to death by you and your team. Likewise you can use Zondeel to suck a large group of enemies into one spot to hit them all with a strong PA like deadly archer, or illusion rave.

Sazan and Nazan can be used to move enemies around too but Sazan's suction power get's overshadowed by Zoindeel, and Nazan is more useful to primarily ranged classes who want to keep things away from them or something they're defending.

Status effects on techs can be useful, though if you have a weapon with the effect you want it's not as much of a priority.

[Dinosaur]

It's a very powerful hybrid combination since Stances will boost all sources of damage. Not to mention that FI has a strong T-Atk stat.

[ShinMaruku]

I must saty if I were to keep stacking sutatus effects I'd roll with Newwearl. The Build posted here is similar to what I'd rock.

[Silver_Wyrm]

so been working on unlocking techer for something similar to this, how good is shifta advance really? I don't see people tossing buffs around much

[Sakarisei]

so been working on unlocking techer for something similar to this, how good is shifta advance really? I don't see people tossing buffs around much

With Fighter Stances, a buffed shifta should increase a lot of power attack.

[ShinMaruku]

Only thing I would worry about shifta advance is that shifta really never lasts long.

[Gama]

any new opinions on this, im fi/te with a 75atp 75 dex mag
focusing in increasing my atp with the skill tree

any opinions sugestions on what to do? i really like that my resta is nearly as effective as it is as a lvl 43 force.

[UnLucky]

so been working on unlocking techer for something similar to this, how good is shifta advance really? I don't see people tossing buffs around much

Shifta Advance is crap unless you have more points than you know what to do with. Even Shifta Critical is debatable.

And Element Weak Hit won't be very useful since AFAIK it would only boost a tiny portion of your striking damage if your weapon has an element attached (and techs, but still a small boost on low TAtk)

[Hrith]

Shifta Advance is really good, especially if you have a good Shifta to begin with, and since it's a proportional increase, Shifta Advance is only to get better as the game progresses. As said, the only issue with is is duration, but I have played with techers that keep you under Shifta/Deband, it's really great.

[Atyl]

Shifta Advance is really good, especially if you have a good Shifta to begin with, and since it's a proportional increase, Shifta Advance is only to get better as the game progresses. As said, the only issue with is is duration, but I have played with techers that keep you under Shifta/Deband, it's really great.

The attack bonus is small. Lvl 14 Shifta (19.3%) with level 10 = 24.125% of your base stats only. In the best reasonable case it is +30 attack. The average people usually use is 25. The only argument in its favor is that it affects your whole mpa.

People usually get it because they want the upgraded shifta look (pre-req 5 for critical) or they have nothing else to spend it on (sub only TE build). TE is hilariously short on points as a main class or sub for FO. If you only plan to have one techer tree just go the standard build since it works fine for /TE on any class and as a main.

Shifta critical is pretty bad. Deband cut can be useful, but since people here like to say JR is a waste of points I guess a 5-15% damage reduction would be low on the list of priorities.

edit: Fixed it to a reasonably good case. The true best case is a newearl FO/TE with full t-atk specs + flare. (62 t-atk).

[Ryock]

Shifta Advance is crap unless you have more points than you know what to do with. Even Shifta Critical is debatable.

And Element Weak Hit won't be very useful since AFAIK it would only boost a tiny portion of your striking damage if your weapon has an element attached (and techs, but still a small boost on low TAtk)

Crummy thing about this. Element Weak Hit doesn't work on striking attacks. Tested this yesterday thinking "Oh hey, this'll be cool, since I'll get 20% more damage!" Instead, my dark noise blower was doing less damage than my other weapon(which had only 10 more s-atk than my dark noise blower). So I guess it doesn't work on striking attacks unfortunately. This was on monsters in the floating continent btw. Or... if it does work on striking attacks... the magnification must be terribly low or something, like 20% of your element's number or something >_>

[Hrith]

The attack bonus is small. Lvl 14 Shifta (19.3%) with level 10 = 24.125% of your base stats only. In the best reasonable case it is +30 attack. The average people usually use is 25. The only argument in its favor is that it affects your whole mpa.Did you even test that? My friend used Shifta Lv12 on me, not a techer, I gained 140 R-ATK from that Shifta. I would assume that when he has techer levelled up enough to get Shifta Advance Lv10, I should notice an even bigger difference. In short, no.

[Atyl]

Did you even test that? My friend used Shifta Lv12 on me, not a techer, I gained 140 R-ATK from that Shifta. I would assume that when he has techer levelled up enough to get Shifta Advance Lv10, I should notice an even bigger difference. In short, no.

It's pretty obvious that you've never tested it. The bonus from shifta advance is 25% of shifta. That means if he spent 10 points in it it would give you 35 attack. That would also mean that you have 733 base ratk in the weapon window which is a pretty far outlier to normal stats.
Pretty much every techer gets at least 3 points in it, so why don't you go ask any of them to buff you.

[Syklo]

It's pretty obvious that you've never tested it. The bonus from shifta advance is 25% of shifta. That means if he spent 10 points in it it would give you 35 attack. That would also mean that you have 733 base ratk in the weapon window which is a pretty far outlier to normal stats.
Pretty much every techer gets at least 3 points in it, so why don't you go ask any of them to buff you.

I think what you're saying is the bonus "atk" you'd get with shifta advance vs without it, but what hrith is saying is the total bonus atk received from the casted shifta (which includes all the shifta bonuses).

I'm a FI/TE with lv9 shifta and lv5 s.advance with around 583 base S-atk. so my shifta bonus is something close to 20 or 21%.
By calculation, 583*1.21=705 (rounding down).
A boost of 122 atk (which is close to actual OBSERVED differences).
So really, shifta is kinda crappy in early levels (which may explain your tiny 35 atk boost), but later on it becomes waaay better.
I still say the extra 5 sp for an extra ~25-35 atk per minute is NOT worth it; better spent on actual s-atk ups.

Point is, you're wrong.
Also if the bonus was really 35 atk (assume 25% boost), then you'd have 140 atk originally.
Really?

And I'll say this again: I've PERSONALLY OBSERVED THE STAT BOOSTS FROM BOTH SHIFTA AND DEBAND MULTIPLE TIMES. And I still do, that way I can tell if someone else's shifta/deband at say, falz teleporter is weaker/stronger than mine.
and as an FYI, observed boosts were far greater than a mere 35 points, more like 120 points.

[Magus_84]

I think what you're saying is the bonus "atk" you'd get with shifta advance vs without it, but what hrith is saying is the total bonus atk received from the casted shifta (which includes all the shifta bonuses).

I'm a FI/TE with lv9 shifta and lv5 s.advance with around 583 base S-atk. so my shifta bonus is something close to 20 or 21%.
By calculation, 583*1.21=705 (rounding down).
A boost of 122 atk (which is close to actual OBSERVED differences).
So really, shifta is kinda crappy in early levels (which may explain your tiny 35 atk boost), but later on it becomes waaay better.
I still say the extra 5 sp for an extra ~25-35 atk per minute is NOT worth it; better spent on actual s-atk ups.

Point is, you're wrong.
Also if the bonus was really 35 atk (assume 25% boost), then you'd have 140 atk originally.
Really?

And I'll say this again: I've PERSONALLY OBSERVED THE STAT BOOSTS FROM BOTH SHIFTA AND DEBAND MULTIPLE TIMES. And I still do, that way I can tell if someone else's shifta/deband at say, falz teleporter is weaker/stronger than mine.
and as an FYI, observed boosts were far greater than a mere 35 points, more like 120 points.

The difference between Shifta with Shifta Advance and Shifta without Shifta Advance was 120 points?

Or the difference between no Shifta and Shifta was 120 points?

I don't think anyone's saying Shifta isn't worth it (except maybe casters that are chasing party members around to hit them with it), but I see a lot of people saying that the 25% boost to baseline Shifta numbers from level 10 Shifta Advance isn't worth it.

[SociableTyrannosaur]

You're not understanding.

Shifta 1 has a base boost of 18% every level after 1 increases this boost by a 10th of a percent or .1% at lvl 14 shifta on its own boosts base atk by 19.3% - hardly anything over shifta 1.

Now Shifta advance increases the boost by 25%, not your overall base atk. so to make the numbers easy lets say shifta 14 raises atk by 20% and your base atk is 600.

600 x .2 = 120. So your atk is boosted by 120 for a total of 720.

Shifta advance then boosts that boost by an additional 25% so

120 x .25 = 30

600 + 120 + 30 = 750

Now most higher end weapons have much higher numbers than our base attacks and this trend is increasing. As of now between weapons and units and affixes it's pretty easy to go from 600 Atk to 1800 which has your base atk accounting for only 1/3 of your damage. which means that your damage isn't being boosted by 5% when using shifta advance but closer to 1.66% and that's at level 10. Even if your base atk were 600 and all your gear only boosted your attack to 1200 that's still only a 2.5% boost over shifta.

Totally not worth 10SP and as gear gets better and base stats level off, that 1.66-2.5 will get even worse.

[Syklo]

The difference between Shifta with Shifta Advance and Shifta without Shifta Advance was 120 points?

Or the difference between no Shifta and Shifta was 120 points?

I don't think anyone's saying Shifta isn't worth it (except maybe casters that are chasing party members around to hit them with it), but I see a lot of people saying that the 25% boost to baseline Shifta numbers from level 10 Shifta Advance isn't worth it.
So this is our source of confusion.
I'm saying shifta vs no shifta

Where the lv9 shifta includes a lv5 advance,

[SociableTyrannosaur]

just to add to this:

At shifta 50 if the trend were to follow 50 would offer 4.9% over 1 for 22.9% instead of 18. that's still less than a 6% boost from lvl 10 shifta advance and again would only account for (as of now) less than 2-3% of your damage

[ShinMaruku]

What's a good spread for fighter/techer?
Pondering builind a second mag so wondering what mag would serve me best

[SociableTyrannosaur]

Depends on what you plan on doing. Are you looking to use techs for support or damage?

[ShinMaruku]

Damage for some harder to deal with monsters at a range and for either setting up a physical beat down or as a finisher after a knock up or away. Also for mass dropping staus effects.

[SociableTyrannosaur]

I might actually go Fi/Fo in that case. Te is nice for the slight amount of extra S Def and S atk, but the amount you gain is small and I think PP Charge Revival would lend itself to your style more than anything techer offers. You're newman female, correct?

Here (http://ryuhiroshi.ry.funpic.de/pso2/skillcalc.html?qDIYIkIYIkIYIkIYIkIYIkIYIkIbIn00000 0febrBGBboGFIb2N0000IbeDIeGXqsenIkdn0009b00004OI42 XdKjbncA0008kbdqIbidI2J24QuN0006) is a build that lets you alternate between Fo/Te, Fo/Fi, Te/Fo and Fi/Fo.

Mag wise...what's your current mag look like?

[ShinMaruku]

Yup Newman female so I'd like to rely slightly more on techs to negate the frailty.

[Atyl]

If you actually plan on using techs for damage, I would go for FO. S Charge or PP Save and revival are both nice bonuses and you get the damage increase from the Charge/JA skills. If you plan to only really be using zondeel or avoiding fire and lightning then I'd use TE.

As for the mag, Right now if you wanted to make a mag specifically to be a teching FI, I'd go with enough t-atk to reach 500 for Umbra along with enough S-atk to reach 580. According to the skill calc that would be 6 (16 - 10 for the points in tech up) and 98 (108 - 10 or more from the FI s-atk ups) and either hold the rest of the points, add ability for requirements, or s-atk to wear stuff before 50. Add 10 S-def if you want to wear 10* ragne units.

[ShinMaruku]

I like using zondeel to suck in monsters so I can unload on them.

[Ryock]

I like using zondeel to suck in monsters so I can unload on them.

If you like using your techs to create some offense, then I'd definitely go with force and leave techer alone. If you like to use zondeel, I'd suggest something along the lines of maxing both the charge tech abilities in the force tree, maxing flame tech s charge for quick shifta and rafoie, and max bolt PP save for small zondeel costs. Cool thing is you can keep Zondeel going infinitely if you go force with bolt pp save. There's actually enough time in between charging, and regenerating enough pp to keep it going however long you like.

Think about it like this:

Techer gives you deband cut, pp restorate, element weak hit, poison ignition, and pp convert. You lose out on a lot of tech damage, and it becomes negligible.

Force gives you tech charge advance 1 and 2, pp charge revival, flame tech s charge, bolt pp save, and tech ja advance for that offense and quick fire techs, as well as cheap bolt techs to make zondeel easy to keep going.

[ShinMaruku]

My main mag has about 51 tech power. Should I add more?

[Coatl]

If you like using your techs to create some offense, then I'd definitely go with force and leave techer alone. If you like to use zondeel, I'd suggest something along the lines of maxing both the charge tech abilities in the force tree, maxing flame tech s charge for quick shifta and rafoie, and max bolt PP save for small zondeel costs. Cool thing is you can keep Zondeel going infinitely if you go force with bolt pp save. There's actually enough time in between charging, and regenerating enough pp to keep it going however long you like.

Think about it like this:

Techer gives you deband cut, pp restorate, element weak hit, poison ignition, and pp convert. You lose out on a lot of tech damage, and it becomes negligible.

Force gives you tech charge advance 1 and 2, pp charge revival, flame tech s charge, bolt pp save, and tech ja advance for that offense and quick fire techs, as well as cheap bolt techs to make zondeel easy to keep going.

Though you forgot to mention you lose out on territory burst, zondeel's best friend.

[SociableTyrannosaur]

My main mag has about 51 tech power. Should I add more?

can you tell me the exact specs please? Basically the reason I'm asking is if your current mag is almost all T atk, then the new one should be mostly S atk with a little t atk and very little dex/agi

I'd suggest a mag like this for Fo/Te, Te/Fo and Fo/Fi:

0
0
130
10
0
0
10

The 10 T-def is totally optional but it's there in case you want to run with snow set when you play Fo/Fi if you don't, put it into T atk. the Agi is because you will cap at 355 Agi currently making dark wing set (the alternative to snow set) unequipable. So I say 10 cause it will let you equip it a few levels early.

If you run Fi/Fo with a desire to melee I would suggest this mag:

120
0
20
10
0
0
0

This will let you equip everything under the sun (best DSes and TDs and also Umbilla Stick as well as Dark wing set.) Make sure you raise T Atk first so that your mag picks up PP Regen J on its first evolution.

get your two mags to as close to those as you can if you plan on alternating like we've been talking.



Though you forgot to mention you lose on territory burst, zondeel's best friend.

I see almost no difference between zondeel with and without Territory Burst(admittedly there is a difference, it's just too little to be worth the detour imho). I made a new skill tree just to try it since everyone was praising it and I really wish I could get my 500AC back

[ShinMaruku]

Somebody explain doublesaber gear?

[Syklo]

Somebody explain doublesaber gear?
probably more than what you need (http://www.pso-world.com/forums/showpost.php?p=2902795&postcount=758)

[ShinMaruku]

Those gears sure sound useful for my playstyle of using a gear then dropping a tech finish the combo.

[SociableTyrannosaur]

I thought for sure I put them on the skilltree I outlined for you.

They're extremely useful if you plan to actually melee. The "least useful" is TD gear but even that is absurd. I was using some cheap daggers that I was able to equip at lvl 1 and was hitting Ragne's core on vhard for over 4k with Raging Waltz I since upgraded to some oboros I got from 200k and was doing even more than that. Mind you I was running Female cast FI/HU with a decent mag.

Still, the point stands. Gears on Fi are really good.

if you need more info on them I'll answer as best I can.

[ShinMaruku]

The tree you outlined was most certainly helpful. I was just wondering why you put the tech power ups and s-power skills so low. DO they not add an appreciable amount of tech and striking?

[UnLucky]

The raw stat point ones? Yeah, they give 50 when maxed which really isn't too great. Sure, they let you equip gear and get a boost from Shifta, but any other damage or utility skill would be better point-for-point.

[SociableTyrannosaur]

No, they don't. The damage you gain from those extra points is minor and the skill trees change as the sega makes updates. The only reason to put extra points in is to be able to equip specific gear, but the mags I outlined take care of that.

When Hu first came out in the full version of the game, iron will and flash guards were not available. Similarly, Chase Advance for Fighter as well as Chase bind and a few other skills were not there. Any extra SP you have will let you get access to new skills when they come out and in the meantime, you dont really lose much of anything.

Bare in mind those static stat boosts offer very little when compared to the long term advantages of the percentage gains as well. For example - what's 32-50 S Atk compared to 20% more damage?

Better to save SP like that and use it as new skills come rather than spending just because you have it, unless of course you plan on buying additional skill trees.

[ShinMaruku]

Only 50 maxed >_>
That opens up much better use of points then....

[SociableTyrannosaur]

Why I suggested the set that I did best damage output while still granting versatility.

[ShinMaruku]

Well those trees will be followed.