Connecticut School Shooting

[blace]

There was a shooting in the state of Connecticut, 27 dead including the gunman himself.

http://usnews.nbcnews.com/_news/2012/12/14/15907407-elementary-school-massacre-27-dead-including-20-kids-in-connecticut?lite=&ocid=ansmsnbc11

The article mostly highlights how majority of the victims are younger than the age of 10 and that it includes the suspects mother.

You'd think with what happened in the past 10 years and the recent shooting here in Colorado, they would step up security.

[.Rusty.]

I think stopping situations like this will require a lot more than just a bit of extra security.

The way the media is handling this is fucking disgusting. Interviewing little kids and getting the killers identity wrong (he had his older brothers ID on him)

:(

[BIG OLAF]

This could happen anywhere, though. "Stepping up security" at every facility in the country? Impossible. I could get an AK-47 right now, run into a Wal-Mart, or a Best Buy, or a car dealership, or a daycare, and kill 100 people before the police show up. You can't stop this kind of thing from happening completely. You can only make gun control stricter (which I don't think it should be; I believe it should be the opposite), and pray to whatever deity you believe in that no 'disturbed individuals' that have access to weapons in your area are having a bad day.

[Sp-24]

Can you really still get a 47? That thing is ancient, and nobody ever uses this kind of bullet, except for maybe some African armies who got it from the Soviet stash.

And, as sad as this is, I'm more interested in the promised "meaningful action" that the yet another shooting itself. Just what are they going to come up with to prevent psychos from shooting people? Commercialise clothes that can stop civilian-grade bullets? Fire somebody who was somehow responsible for something that is kinda connected to the incident? Throw around words on various talk shows until everybody gets bored with the story?

In any case, it will be very funny if the president decides to announce his solution to this problem on 21/12/2012.

[blace]

Stepping up security anywhere is an ordeal, I know that. However, the lack of mention of school security just felt off.

When I was in elementary school we had security stationed at the entrances. In middle school and high school, no one from off campus was allowed inside without presenting an ID. If someone was found on school grounds without a printed guest sticker was escorted immediately.

That was what I was getting at, the lack of mention of the school security.

[Sinue_v2]

Just what are they going to come up with to prevent psychos from shooting people?

Nothing. I don't think there's anything (realistically) that can be done. School/mass shootings have been a part of the American tapestry since before the revolution. The only thing that's changed is the motivations behind the shootings, and the scale at which they can be carried out. Usually, before the 20th century, school shootings were typically a response to abuse by teachers and headmasters, whereas now they're more an effect of bullying, warped ideologies, or psychosis. Even in nations which have stricter gun control laws (such as Norway: Oslo 2011, Germany: Winnenden 2009, and Finland: Jokela 2007), this still ends up being a problem. Even China with their draconian gun control laws still sees regular school/public massacres with other weapon types (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/School_attacks_in_China_%282010%E2%80%932011%29) - such as box cutters, axes, and spears.

I don't mean that we shouldn't take measures to stop these events from happening, but we should be realistic as the to the limits of what we can do and not just enact knee-jerk laws which only serve to restrict freedom for a little purely psychological sense of security.

[Nitro Vordex]

Hoo boy, another psycho with a gun goes off. Fantastic.

[Noblewine]

Funny how they are reporting this and I sorta wonder what the cops were doing the whole time. They could've prevented this from the start because of the warning sign. =/

[Rozerem]

All I have to say is that I'm not very impressed on how easy it was to sneak in with a rifle showing..how can someone miss that?Well my condolences to the families and all.

[CelestialBlade]

Fuck gun control, maybe people need to do a better job raising their kids. Then they wouldn't grow up into sick fucking cowards that shoot children and take their own lives. Not necessarily judging the parents of this guy specifically, but this happens so much and everyone's too afraid to point the finger at all the terrible-ass parents in this country. Used to get my ass busted for back-talking, have you seen how kids treat their parents now?

[Rozerem]

Fuck gun control, maybe people need to do a better job raising their kids. Then they wouldn't grow up into sick fucking cowards that shoot children and take their own lives. Not necessarily judging the parents of this guy specifically, but this happens so much and everyone's too afraid to point the finger at all the terrible-ass parents in this country. Used to get my ass busted for back-talking, have you seen how kids treat their parents now?
I have to agree on this one..it is the parents who set the example and when there is to much slack given that is part of the reason why things like this happen.I'm a parent myself and even though I give my daughter some slack I make sure she has an understanding of right and wrong and when she does something she souldn't she gets punished by being grounded.I have noticed alot now in this day in age how children go out of control and then do something this vile and stupid.

[Blastifyys]

Fuck gun control, maybe people need to do a better job raising their kids. Then they wouldn't grow up into sick fucking cowards that shoot children and take their own lives. Not necessarily judging the parents of this guy specifically, but this happens so much and everyone's too afraid to point the finger at all the terrible-ass parents in this country. Used to get my ass busted for back-talking, have you seen how kids treat their parents now?
I agree as well its based on the parents actions thats how my mom is talk back Lets Just Say BANG BANG! (keep in mind im only 14 Years old)

[Sinue_v2]

Blame the parents? Sure, why not. One wrong answer is just as good as another wrong answer. And hey, whatever makes you feel smugly superior and gives you quick simple answers that help you sleep at night.

People are complex multifaceted agents operating in a complex and multifaceted society/culture. The triggers for a psychotic break in one individual are going to be different from the triggers in another, and I have yet to see a single study in which any particular parenting method of a child (barring excess physical/sexual abuse) has been causally linked to this kind of behavior. At best, we can say that parents have a tendency to bullshit themselves, form a cognitive bias, about their kids and are often reluctant to identify and seek appropriate treatment for underlying psychological problems. That's not bad parenting, that's being a human being. We're constantly bullshitting ourselves to make the world appear to conform to what we want to be true.

None of you know any more about his parents and their method child rearing than I do. I think it's a little pre-emptive to be blaming them at this point, let alone lumping every sub-par parent who raises bratty obnoxious spawn into the same boat with a mass murderer.

[.Jack]

This might have been prevented if the school had a proper security entrance policy. I remember when I was in school, anyone that wasn't a school worker or student had to report to security first to sign in to enter. I guess they don't do that in all schools. What a shame. :shy:

[NoiseHERO]

This might have been prevented if the school had a proper security entrance policy. I remember when I was in school, anyone that wasn't a school worker or student had to report to security first to sign in to enter. I guess they don't do that in all schools. What a shame. :shy:

Dunno about every other school...

In NY schools, there were security guards every entrance, you had to flash I.D. , take off your jacket and bags to be checked, AND there was a metal detector.

Annoying, but a small price to pay in a bronx school. >_>;

For some reason it's like these shootings happen once a year, like no one's learned their lesson and innocent people have to die, not just in schools and supermarkets. But in a place where people are supposed to feel safe. And all that happens is that it becomes the internet's next trendy topic for a few weeks and people judge it like that first.

[NoiseHERO]

Having security like this at every school is just unrealistic as the cost is too high for small towns and cities.

Yeah, was saying I was fortunate, well INSIDE school at least. Right outside though, forget it.

[Uncle_bob]

I could get an AK-47 right now


Can you really still get a 47? That thing is ancient, and nobody ever uses this kind of bullet, except for maybe some African armies who got it from the Soviet stash.

lol


Nothing. I don't think there's anything (realistically) that can be done. School/mass shootings have been a part of the American tapestry since before the revolution. The only thing that's changed is the motivations behind the shootings, and the scale at which they can be carried out. Usually, before the 20th century, school shootings were typically a response to abuse by teachers and headmasters, whereas now they're more an effect of bullying, warped ideologies, or psychosis. Even in nations which have stricter gun control laws (such as Norway: Oslo 2011, Germany: Winnenden 2009, and Finland: Jokela 2007), this still ends up being a problem. Even China with their draconian gun control laws still sees regular school/public massacres with other weapon types (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/School_attacks_in_China_%282010%E2%80%932011%29) - such as box cutters, axes, and spears.

I don't mean that we shouldn't take measures to stop these events from happening, but we should be realistic as the to the limits of what we can do and not just enact knee-jerk laws which only serve to restrict freedom for a little purely psychological sense of security.

Pretty much what this guy said.

[BIG OLAF]

Can you really still get a 47? That thing is ancient, and nobody ever uses this kind of bullet, except for maybe some African armies who got it from the Soviet stash.

Yes, you can. In fact, a few months ago, there was a truck dealership in Orlando that was giving away a free AK-47 when you bought a new vehicle.

No, really. I'm serious.

Only in 'MURICA.

That's beside the point, however. I was using it as an example. Would you feel better if I said M16, or P90?

[.Rusty.]

Even China with their draconian gun control laws still sees regular school/public massacres with other weapon types (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/School_attacks_in_China_%282010%E2%80%932011%29) - such as box cutters, axes, and spears.


China actually had one of those attacks yesterday :/
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chenpeng_Village_Primary_School_stabbing
23 injured no deaths.

[Xevioso]

Something is really strange with these events. This is the 3rd time this year. 3 people, no criminal record, just goes out and starts killing people for no reason.

And immediately after the news on Fox, I see a ticker tape lining saying "gun control".

I don't like to delve into conspiracy theories, but what if... this event was intentional by tptb?

[BIG OLAF]

The human mind is a very fragile thing. Someone with no criminal history and seemingly no outward hostility could, inside their brain, be a swirling torrent of pain, hatred, anger, and resentment, with the smallest 'push' sending them over the edge into physically attacking others.

[.Rusty.]

I don't like to delve into conspiracy theories, but what if... this event was intentional by tptb?

It is far more likely to be a combination of...
social injustice/inequality
poverty and unemployment
society's shity attitudes towards mental illness combined with a crap health care system

[Sayara]

China actually had one of those attacks yesterday :/
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chenpeng_Village_Primary_School_stabbing
23 injured no deaths.

Gonna devil's advocate onto your topic a second with a quote my friend put up:

I do not feel sad for what happened today, or what happened on 9/11, or Colombine, or Pearl Harbor, or Virginia Tech, or even Aurora. Does this make me a monster? Am I wrong or have no empathy? People die by the thousands from rebels, AIDS, famine, and political disputes everyday in 3rd world countries and no one bats an eye, so why should this be worse? If I spent every moment of my life crying over those that died at the unfair hand of others, I would never be able to enjoy the gift of living. Loss of all human life is tragic but I will not pretend to be sad by one event that I feel no emotional connection to out of fear of looking bad.

Take it as you will. Innocent live loss is always a terrible thing that is certainly true.

[.Rusty.]

I just posted it because it is a bit of a coincidence what with it happening on the same day.

[Sp-24]

I doubt that the shooter had any actual mental illness. I think that he was just a pampered manchild who expected everything to be handed to him. The news of him being a worthless piece of shit came just a few years later than to most of us, way after most opportunities to fix it have vanished, and naturally were more shocking. I'm fairly sure that there is no circlejerk that fights for the wimpy white middle class boys with no apparent physical or mental disabilities' rights to sit on their ass at somebody else's expense, either (though he could still claim ableism). And what do you do when you have nobody to help you, no will to do anything whatsoever except playing games and no goal in life? And he snapped, but instead of becoming a suicide statistic, he made news.

I'm basing this on a single photograph of the guy and him killing his mom, by the way, so yeah, post mortem e-psychiatry at its finest.

And back to the important part, really? 47? With 7.62mm, or whatever is the pointless caliber that it uses? Just wow.

[Enforcer MKV]

Can you really still get a 47? That thing is ancient, and nobody ever uses this kind of bullet, except for maybe some African armies who got it from the Soviet stash.


.....You do realize that The AK-47 is the most easily obtained rifle since like....the 60s-70s, right? It's cheap, it's hella hard to jam, and there are just so damn many of them it's ridiculous. Most of the Warsaw Pact countries obtained manufacturing licenses for dirt cheap or free, and even some none communist countries (Like Egypt and this little place called Iraq) have permits to make them. There's a reason that the AK-47 has become such an....*ahem* "iconic" terrorist weapon. It's because it's the most common. Hell, some smaller nations still use surplus AKs, specifically the AKM, which is an upgraded, lighter version of the venerable 47.

And the 7.62 round? USELESS? It's one of the hardest hitting rifle cartridges. It hits harder than M-16 rounds, that's for sure. Accuracy? The accuracy isn't the fault of the cartridge: The AK-47 is infamous for it's inaccuracy, and rightly so.

....uh....er....Sorry, gun rant. I'll stop. o_o;;;

Carry on. ^^;

[NoiseHERO]

.....You do realize that The AK-47 is the most easily obtained rifle since like....the 60s-70s, right? It's cheap, it's hella hard to jam, and there are just so damn many of them it's ridiculous. Most of the Warsaw Pact countries obtained manufacturing licenses for dirt cheap or free, and even some none communist countries (Like Egypt and this little place called Iraq) have permits to make them. There's a reason that the AK-47 has become such an....*ahem* "iconic" terrorist weapon. It's because it's the most common. Hell, some smaller nations still use surplus AKs, specifically the AKM, which is an upgraded, lighter version of the venerable 47.

And the 7.62 round? USELESS? It's one of the hardest hitting rifle cartridges. It hits harder than M-16 rounds, that's for sure. Accuracy? The accuracy isn't the fault of the cartridge: The AK-47 is infamous for it's inaccuracy, and rightly so.

....uh....er....Sorry, gun rant. I'll stop. o_o;;;

Carry on. ^^;

I always feel like I'm the only man in the world that doesn't know shit about guns that isn't mega buster related.

[Enforcer MKV]

I always feel like I'm the only man in the world that doesn't know shit about guns that isn't mega buster related.

I enjoy studying and firing guns. Don't feel too bad; lots of people don't know anything about guns.

inb4 tasteless jokes.

EDIT: Oh, and about the 7.62? NATO uses it's own version of the cartridge; it's used in our M14 EBRs. That's a sniper rifle that US soldiers are using in Afghanistan and Iraq right now. It's the same round it used back when we first fielded the original M14 rifle....in Vietnam.

EDIT2: Uh, for anyone interested, EBR stands for "Enhanced Battle Rifle."

[Xevioso]

It is far more likely to be a combination of...
social injustice/inequality
poverty and unemployment
society's shity attitudes towards mental illness combined with a crap health care system

That I understand, but this is the 3rd case right now.

1st: The theater
2ndL: The temple or shrine
3rd: Elementary school

All in a short time frame. Similar cases. No criminal records. Just goes postal immediately for seemingly no reason.

Doesn't that seem a bit odd to you?

[BIG OLAF]

Morgan Freeman put it best:

"It's because of the way the media reports it. Flip on the news and watch how we treat the Batman theater shooter and the Oregon mall shooter like celebrities. Dylan Klebold and Eric Harris are household names, but do you know the name of a single victim of Columbine? Disturbed people who would otherwise just off themselves in their basements see the news and want to top it by doing something worse, and going out in a memorable way. Why a grade school? Why children? Because he'll be remembered as a horrible monster, instead of a sad nobody."

That's why these things seem to be happening more often now. It's a free ticket to 'be someone' (albeit, a bad 'someone') on their way out the door.

[Enforcer MKV]

Morgan Freeman put it best:

"It's because of the way the media reports it. Flip on the news and watch how we treat the Batman theater shooter and the Oregon mall shooter like celebrities. Dylan Klebold and Eric Harris are household names, but do you know the name of a single victim of Columbine? Disturbed people who would otherwise just off themselves in their basements see the news and want to top it by doing something worse, and going out in a memorable way. Why a grade school? Why children? Because he'll be remembered as a horrible monster, instead of a sad nobody."

That's why these things seem to be happening more often now. It's a free ticket to 'be someone' (albeit, a bad 'someone') on their way out the door.

It's scary how accurate that is. Scarier still how so many people buy into and perpetuate it.

[Xevioso]

Morgan Freeman put it best:

"It's because of the way the media reports it. Flip on the news and watch how we treat the Batman theater shooter and the Oregon mall shooter like celebrities. Dylan Klebold and Eric Harris are household names, but do you know the name of a single victim of Columbine? Disturbed people who would otherwise just off themselves in their basements see the news and want to top it by doing something worse, and going out in a memorable way. Why a grade school? Why children? Because he'll be remembered as a horrible monster, instead of a sad nobody."

That's why these things seem to be happening more often now. It's a free ticket to 'be someone' (albeit, a bad 'someone') on their way out the door.

Oh wow. He's absolutely right.

It's like how girls are getting pregnant just to appear on MTV now.

[RenzokukenZ]

Morgan Freeman put it best:

"It's because of the way the media reports it. Flip on the news and watch how we treat the Batman theater shooter and the Oregon mall shooter like celebrities. Dylan Klebold and Eric Harris are household names, but do you know the name of a single victim of Columbine? Disturbed people who would otherwise just off themselves in their basements see the news and want to top it by doing something worse, and going out in a memorable way. Why a grade school? Why children? Because he'll be remembered as a horrible monster, instead of a sad nobody."

That's why these things seem to be happening more often now. It's a free ticket to 'be someone' (albeit, a bad 'someone') on their way out the door.

It's like I said in the Bull Sh*t thread, the media is having the bad habit of glorifying these events and making them out to be accomplishments. Especially how emphasis of the number of victims makes it sound like a 'high score' that needs to be beat. And unfortunately for us, some people take that challenge.

[blace]

It doesn't take a genius to see that, just take a gander at the history of the world. Feared individuals and mass criminals get acclaim not the victims.

Unless one of the victims had any significance they're almost never mentioned.

[Xevioso]

Well considering the history of America, it might be easy to see why monsters seem to be glorified. :P

I kid. But if the media is having this kind of effect on people, I wonder why there isn't stricter control on how the news reports things.

[.Rusty.]

Even worse now that we have 24 hour news networks.


Well considering the history of America, it might be easy to see why monsters seem to be glorified. :P

I kid. But if the media is having this kind of effect on people, I wonder why there isn't stricter control on how the news reports things.

That won't happen because of free speech.

[Xevioso]

Oh... yeah.

Then again, I'm starting to wonder how much freedom of speech we really have. I've read this news story about a girl who's college professor failed her for disagreeing with the concept of global warming.

But eh. When I think about this situation now, it's near christmas time, I'm sure those children had gifts. Now the parents would have a painful reminder of what happened.

Just... what was the motive for this!?

[RenzokukenZ]

Just... what was the motive for this!?

Misguided release of angst and stress at best, shits and giggles at worst.

[Sinue_v2]

Doesn't that seem a bit odd to you?

No. What seems odd is that we don't have MORE of these types of events considering the number of guns and critically stupid/violent people currently populate this nation. We must be doing something very right.


Well considering the history of America, it might be easy to see why monsters seem to be glorified. :P

I kid.

Kid? If that's supposed to be a joke or a snipe, then I don't get it. How exactly is American history any more "monstrous" or guilty of glorifying "monsters" as any other nation out there? Name me a nation and a hero of it, and I will most likely be able to compile a list the length of your arm of atrocities committed by (or allowed to be perpetrated under) their watch.


But if the media is having this kind of effect on people, I wonder why there isn't stricter control on how the news reports things.

Wait, you start getting all paranoid over the machinations of "The Powers that Be", and then wonder why "The Powers that Be" don't take a more active hand in shaping and dictating what is news and how it can be delivered by private industry? Seems contradictory to me. Anyhow... uh, free market capitalism? It's what people want to watch. Death, Drama, and Sensation sell. Bitch and pine for a better news service all you want, but at the end of the day, the numbers don't lie.

It's part of why I watch/listen to PBS/NPR. They're private, but rely on government and private grants to operate - rather than relying on advertising based revenue to dictate what's most profitable to report on and how it's reported.

There used to be an FCC guideline called the "Fairness Doctrine" which required stations to provide a certain amount of airtime to reporting on controversial and public interest issues in an equitable and honest manner as part of the "cost" to leasing their bit of the spectrum. It hasn't really been enforced since '87 though, and was formally repealed last year.


Then again, I'm starting to wonder how much freedom of speech we really have. I've read this news story about a girl who's college professor failed her for disagreeing with the concept of global warming.

Freedom of speech does not insulate you from criticism or prevent you from being called out on bullshit when you decide to disregard facts. Especially in the academic arena. To deny the reality of AGW at this point in time means she's either willfully ignorant of the evidence, or head-up-her-ass deluded. Either way, she deserves an F every bit as assuredly as if she had denied evolution.

Also, most collages are private institutions. Aside from having no credibility or accreditation, and giving out crap diplomas that aren't worth shit in the real world, there's nothing to stop a private university from teaching whatever totally batshit insane crap they want.

http://www.durangobill.com/JGpics/PatriotUniversitySmall.jpg

See that fucking beat-up glorified house-trailer in the middle of nowhere? That's a "University". Patriot Bible University in Colorado, to be exact, where pillars of the creationist community like "Dr." Kent Hovind go to get "advanced" degrees in any subject they want to assert authority into.


People die by the thousands from rebels, AIDS, famine, and political disputes everyday in 3rd world countries and no one bats an eye, so why should this be worse?

Because these children were largely white?

Don't kill the messenger here; I don't endorse that attitude. I'm just (cynically) saying, our society is awfully callous when it comes to the suffering of brown foreign people... and still pretty shitty to the suffering of many brown domestic people.

[Sayara]

That was the idea of my friends post. People react so sharply to things like this.
With reason of course, but if it were anywhere else?

[RenzokukenZ]

That was the idea of my friends post. People react so sharply to things like this.
With reason of course, but if it were anywhere else?

I think its more on how we relate to it personally rather than its location or whatever race is involved.

For instance, I won't be phased about the hundreds of deaths to AIDs, but I will to a school shooting, because I have younger brothers that I'm raising, little ones and a few big ones, and an event like this will have me have thoughts in the back of my head saying "What if it were any of their schools?" It won't make me have a panic attack, but it is a bit of a snap of reality.

Does that make us come off as selfish, heartless monsters, and/or racial bigots? Probably. Is that true most of the time? Of course not.

[Sayara]

I think its more on how we relate to it personally rather than its location or whatever race is involved.

For instance, I won't be phased about the hundreds of deaths to AIDs, but I will to a school shooting, because I have younger brothers that I'm raising, little ones and a few big ones, and an event like this will have me have thoughts in the back of my head saying "What if it were any of their schools?" It won't make me have a panic attack, but it is a bit of a snap of reality.

Does that make us come off as selfish, heartless monsters, and/or racial bigots? Probably. Is that true most of the time? Of course not.

Not at all. You react stronger to those you care for. And in this case, you react stronger to those /closer/ to the things you care for in this case.