PSO2 is so shallow...

[jooozek]

...is what can I only say after finally getting past normal mode and getting to very hard in PSO. Really SEGA, what have you done?

[Meji]

Aren't all Phantasy Star Online/Universe/Portable games a tad shallow? I mean, the things you do are very repetitive in these games. The only thing that changes between normal/hard/very hard is pretty much the loot.

Even so, PSO2 is still unique due to all its random maps and events, which surely makes the game less shallow in my opinion.

[jooozek]

If I have to pick between praying for a good map/code occurence and praying for good weather, I'll easily go for praying for good weather because that might actually work. First PSO loot wasn't as shallow as everything that drops in this game though.

[Agitated_AT]

NOW people are noticing? It doesn't matter that there are random generated maps or even variations of content when you are mostly doing the exact same thing with 0 thought.

[Rien]

The real difficulty is in getting shit to drop, lol.

[ZIE creations]

Go play any MMO that isn't repetitive / shallow and let me know how long it lasts. First problem is finding one, the other is trying to stay longer then a month because you run out of interest / content. PSO2 Does hold up in originality through its world / combat, I've yet to find another MMO that can put combat together like PSO2 where there are completely different play styles.

Shallow it may be, but it works ^.^

[Sp-24]

NOW people are noticing? It doesn't matter that there are random generated maps or even variations of content when you are mostly doing the exact same thing with 0 thought.

Welcome to the Phantasy Star Online series.

[jooozek]

Go play any MMO that isn't repetitive / shallow and let me know how long it lasts. First problem is finding one, the other is trying to stay longer then a month because you run out of interest / content. PSO2 Does hold up in originality through its world / combat, I've yet to find another MMO that can put combat together like PSO2 where there are completely different play styles.

Shallow it may be, but it works ^.^

Really now? Just because the standards are low doesn't mean SEGA should follow them blindly.

[Lumpen Thingy]

If you really think the game is shallow and repetitive why not quit and play something else already?

[Sp-24]

Really now? Just because the standards are low doesn't mean SEGA should follow them blindly.

Actually, it means precisely that. If there is no competition, you can put very little effort into your MMO, and are still guaranteed to get people to keep playing it.

[jooozek]

If you really think the game is shallow and repetitive why not quit and play something else already?

If you actually read the OP you'd know that I'm playing now PSO.


Actually, it means precisely that. If there is no competition, you can put very little effort into your MMO, and are still guaranteed to get people to keep playing it.

Ah, you are right - it's a business before everything. Totally forgot that this just resolves around profit/cost since the game is F2P. Stupid me.

[Lumpen Thingy]

So your quitting PSO2 because its shallow but playing PSO? Ya I think I'm done trying to make sense out of anything you say. Have fun playing a game were getting from 180 to 200 was the biggest chore in gaming to me.

[Sarthraa]

It's kinda like hack n' slash dungeon crawlers, like Fate, Diablo, and Torchlight...they're repetitive and shallow, but they have a way of being addicting. But yes, the PSO games are a bit shallow, but in my opinion most games become shallow after a while.

[jooozek]

So your quitting PSO2 because its shallow but playing PSO? Ya I think I'm done trying to make sense out of anything you say. Have fun playing a game were getting from 180 to 200 was the biggest chore in gaming to me.

I didn't quit nor do I plan to. Its just the thing that no matter what I do in PSO2 it's all pointless because it all leads to being bitchslapped by the retarded RNG. Don't tell me it isn't so when someone loses eight full protectors on a weapon to go from +8... to +8. When it comes to loot, no matter what I hunt for, its just a shitty reskin without any redeeming features other than different stats that aren't really needed. Latent abilities you say? Yes, let me get 3000 grinders and 50 full protectors from AC Scratch so I can unlock them on my shiny 10* items.

[Xaelouse]

Quit video games while you're ahead

[Agitated_AT]

Welcome to the Phantasy Star Online series.

Oh really? Well let's not argue about that. There are actually a lot of genres that are supposed to be repetitive. But do you know how they are kept interesting?

For one let us make this clear first. PSO2's battle mechanics have so much potential to implemented into an engaging experiences where every part "must" be used to progress and defeat enemy and bosses. This right now is only the case for most of the bosses, which is a small part of the game.

Genres like beat em ups, shoot em ups, hack and slash. All repetitive genres that keep things interesting by making the experience more engaging as you progress, hence changing the experience. But also adding new elements with each new level theme.

PSO2 lacks both, so not only is the game repetitive. It is shallow and everything you can earn in the game almost has no meaning. So there are all these powerful weapons and units that take effort to get? Well you don't need them.

As someone said. The real difficulty is for shit to drop. So the only way you'll find meaning to keep playing this game is if you like collecting stuff.

[Galax]

Here's my advice to people complaining about it being 'boring and repetitive'. Ask yourself what game you're comparing it to - if you are comparing it to another - that makes you say that.

Now, one option there is to stop playing PSO2 and play the other game that looks better in your eyes. Another is to ask yourself WHY that other game is better. A third is to just deal with it, because PSO2 is PSO2 and that other game is that other game.

Of course, if you're not comparing it to anything, and just analyzing the shitty RNG - Which wasn't all that better in PSO1 IMO, RNG doesn't change much it always screws SOMEONE over - and the annoying level grinds (again, in PSO1 if you try to use the PSO1 argument)...I'm wondering why you aren't countering these facts (yeah, I agree, RNG's a dick and level grinding really sucks when you get stuck with it) by playing with friends/teammates/putting on external music while playing to distract yourself a bit. Try a different class or class combo. The game's got a bit going for it, not the least of which is attacking Vardha and Falz with eleven others in Equests! Not to mention the not-as-effective but still fun class combos like GUFO or GUTE. Equip mechguns. Put techs like Ragrants, Zan, Sazan on your subpallet. Flip around and launch lasers from the sky, land and plant a wind punch in the bastard's face, throw winderangs around, and for juggling, launch off a few sazans and then start shooting.

If you're telling me with the combat possibilities you can fuck around with that this game is shallow all around...I'm afraid I have to disagree.

EDIT: Just read something I missed in your post Agitated. "nothing new to each level theme?" Okay, so, the traditional weakness-changes in each stage - Fire/Wind for forest, Ice for caves, lightning for desert, fire alone for tundra, and so on - don't count? What about the annoyingly toughskinned lasershooting Windira in Skylands? Maybe the Bardirans that are shooting energy at you that - with each successive firing - gets larger and more powerful? Fine, the bastard's a reskinned Za Oodan - If you're expecting more you're asking it of the wrong company. I could name any number of reskins sega has done, including "bringing back" PSO1 weapons in both PSO2 and PSU, I noticed the small changes to things like Double Cannon...And that's not to mention the number of De Ragan reskins. I'd have hoped they'd shape up a bit on that, too, but it just wasn't likely, nor should it have been expected. You can't often help but hope...But hope =/= expectations.

And I dont' know where you get anything you do or find meaning nothing. I'm quite proud of reaching lv44 Ranger, lv23 Gunner, lv16 Force and working on them still despite how "repetitive" the game is.

I also have one other suggestion for everyone complaining about repetitive gameplay. Go play harvest moon - friends of mineral town onwards. Before that the games had a kind of endpoint, where you could effectively say "I BEAT THE GAME." After FoMT, that stops, and it just goes on...and on...and on...forever. Not even any combat to keep you interested.

[ZIE creations]

Just a special note, they did at requirements for progression... so technically there is some "objective" or challenge, and unlike previous phantasy star MMOs, this one has client orders which gives objectives.

If you played PSO / PSU or even monster hunter >.< you shouldn't be surprised about some repetitiveness and extremely shallow drops. PSO2 still has far more variation then PSO / PSU and it's in the early stages, maybe they will add some really challenges in the future, where you will want those shiny weapons, but even then you won't "need" them since the game *gasp* is skill based! Dodge / strike and win.

EDIT: I forgot epic bosses! sorry >.<

[NoiseHERO]

For... maybe the third time ever KINDA...

Don't hit me but, I agree with OP.

I'm hoping this game gets spiced up a lot next year/When Ultimate mode comes out.

[Kion]

Generally most online games are loot orientated with little focus on story. Personally i love the gameplay, characters, community, style and playing online with friends. But as far as the story goes, it doesn't give you any emotional incentive to keep logging in and leveling your character to see how things turn out. Given the material they have to work with, they really dropped the ball. The only problem is that while it's not living up to it's full potential story-wise, not many other games do either.

[CelestialBlade]

I'm not gonna sit here and say PSO2 doesn't need more varied content and more to do, but at the same time...find me any MMO that doesn't get repetitive if you play it every day. Phantasy Star online games have always been casual action-RPG grinders, they're games you'll probably need a break from after a while but you'll probably come back to it over and over.

It's never going to change as long as it keeps doing as well as it is in Japan. Sega could care less about the rest of the world at this point.

[jooozek]

-snip-

My signature isn't hidden, you know.


-snip-

If you need fetch/kill quests in a game to keep playing then that means that game is really shallow.
Also, brb going to fight falz oh wait no falz this hour oh wait no falz for me today oh wait no falz this week oh wait no falz this month.

EDIT: oh, and, just because you can dodge and block doesn't mean the combat is skill based, not with the enemies being paperbags. No, really.

[Ezodagrom]

EDIT: Just read something I missed in your post Agitated. "nothing new to each level theme?" Okay, so, the traditional weakness-changes in each stage - Fire/Wind for forest, Ice for caves, lightning for desert, fire alone for tundra, and so on - don't count? What about the annoyingly toughskinned lasershooting Windira in Skylands? Maybe the Bardirans that are shooting energy at you that - with each successive firing - gets larger and more powerful? Fine, the bastard's a reskinned Za Oodan - If you're expecting more you're asking it of the wrong company. I could name any number of reskins sega has done, including "bringing back" PSO1 weapons in both PSO2 and PSU, I noticed the small changes to things like Double Cannon...And that's not to mention the number of De Ragan reskins. I'd have hoped they'd shape up a bit on that, too, but it just wasn't likely, nor should it have been expected. You can't often help but hope...But hope =/= expectations.
About Agitated's post, if I'm not mistaken, he usually has 2 major complaints about the game, first is about most enemies being way too passive, the second is about the free fields being flat, having no special features to make the field more unique.

[Agitated_AT]

Here's my advice to people complaining about it being 'boring and repetitive'. Ask yourself what game you're comparing it to - if you are comparing it to another - that makes you say that.

Now, one option there is to stop playing PSO2 and play the other game that looks better in your eyes. Another is to ask yourself WHY that other game is better. A third is to just deal with it, because PSO2 is PSO2 and that other game is that other game.

Of course, if you're not comparing it to anything, and just analyzing the shitty RNG - Which wasn't all that better in PSO1 IMO, RNG doesn't change much it always screws SOMEONE over - and the annoying level grinds (again, in PSO1 if you try to use the PSO1 argument)...I'm wondering why you aren't countering these facts (yeah, I agree, RNG's a dick and level grinding really sucks when you get stuck with it) by playing with friends/teammates/putting on external music while playing to distract yourself a bit. Try a different class or class combo. The game's got a bit going for it, not the least of which is attacking Vardha and Falz with eleven others in Equests! Not to mention the not-as-effective but still fun class combos like GUFO or GUTE. Equip mechguns. Put techs like Ragrants, Zan, Sazan on your subpallet. Flip around and launch lasers from the sky, land and plant a wind punch in the bastard's face, throw winderangs around, and for juggling, launch off a few sazans and then start shooting. See you are a great example of what I mean. I don't even care about the RNG(yet) because most of the items have no meaning. There is no content that encourages me to have this great rare weapon which is gonna help me through content and make it more accessible. In my opinion it should though


If you're telling me with the combat possibilities you can fuck around with that this game is shallow all around...I'm afraid I have to disagree.The problem is, the game itself doesn't encourage any other tactic than mindlessly attack/shoot apart from the bosses. This is a big waste of the amazing combat mechanics. This is also why bosses are so great and people love them. Why can't the whole game exist of that kind of exciting content.



EDIT: Just read something I missed in your post Agitated. "nothing new to each level theme?" Okay, so, the traditional weakness-changes in each stage - Fire/Wind for forest, Ice for caves, lightning for desert, fire alone for tundra, and so on - don't count? What about the annoyingly toughskinned lasershooting Windira in Skylands? Maybe the Bardirans that are shooting energy at you that - with each successive firing - gets larger and more powerful? Fine, the bastard's a reskinned Za Oodan - If you're expecting more you're asking it of the wrong company. I could name any number of reskins sega has done, including "bringing back" PSO1 weapons in both PSO2 and PSU, I noticed the small changes to things like Double Cannon...And that's not to mention the number of De Ragan reskins. I'd have hoped they'd shape up a bit on that, too, but it just wasn't likely, nor should it have been expected. You can't often help but hope...But hope =/= expectations. With each complaint I have, I can also admit good things. The problem is that the things you have stated are subtle good additions, which i'll give credit to any day. What I and a few others are complaining about are parts of the core experience. As i've said earlier. I have always played and loved PSO for the fact it was always slightly engaging going through a whole area or dungeon. It wasn't so much earning new weapons or whatever. They were slight motivations like leveling up(in order to make the next area doable) but most importantly, the experience of going through an area was intense "enough" for it to keep me as a player interested. Rares had meaning because they did help a lot.



And I dont' know where you get anything you do or find meaning nothing. I'm quite proud of reaching lv44 Ranger, lv23 Gunner, lv16 Force and working on them still despite how "repetitive" the game is. But why are your proud of it? Because of meeting the game's requirements for areas and fields? Because content was too hard and level increase helped you to get through content you couldnt get through before? Because of the number? Please clarify because most of the reasons why leveling usually is encouraged and to be felt proud of, is absent in pso2. PSO1 didn't have level requirements apart for the difficulties. But they were low as well. The content itself made itself clear on what the requirement would have to be. You can't do caves at lvl 1. You can't do mines at lvl 5 (excluding the addition of a full leveled mag).



I also have one other suggestion for everyone complaining about repetitive gameplay. Go play harvest moon - friends of mineral town onwards. Before that the games had a kind of endpoint, where you could effectively say "I BEAT THE GAME." After FoMT, that stops, and it just goes on...and on...and on...forever. Not even any combat to keep you interested.I don't need to play an even more boring game to appreciate a less boring game. This is kind of a weird thing to sugges

[ZIE creations]

My signature isn't hidden, you know.



If you need fetch/kill quests in a game to keep playing then that means that game is really shallow.
Also, brb going to fight falz oh wait no falz this hour oh wait no falz for me today oh wait no falz this week oh wait no falz this month.

EDIT: oh, and, just because you can dodge and block doesn't mean the combat is skill based, not with the enemies being paperbags. No, really.

Just because this isn't Ninja Gaiden doesn't mean it isn't skill based. Also, no offence, but you seem to be highly unreasonable. In the comparison matter, compared to other phantasy star games, and MMOs in general, PSO2 requires a lot more combat effort then the mass. If you fail to see that point then I fear you are way too deep in your own mind and you may need to take a break from gaming in general for a bit to flex your brain >.<

EDIT: Forgot to comment (as always >.>) the "fetch" and "kill" quests are just there as extras, you can go by without ever doing those, they are just a nice bonus when trying to decide what area to run, I do that quite often. "what area should I go too.. oh, got this order from Maroo, I can do that then"

[Tcrusader51]

Quit video games while you're ahead

Thank you. You basically pointed out exactly what I was thinking. What video game doesn't become shallow and repetitive especially when it's online?

[Galax]

I'm proud of my levels because I take my time to enjoy clearing out the map and killing every mob I find in every room at my own pace to earn those levels. I am, by default, a very slow leveler; The fact that I'm past the midway point of hardmode is a miracle by how I normally play phantasy star. 400 Hours to hit lv100 in Zero; Never hit 200 in PSO1; Never hit a level cap worth mentioning in PSU - that is to say I did it in extra mode and once on the demo; And to be honest, if the mobs are too easy...Try a weaker weapon. If you really want every bit of challenge you can get. I don't find waiting around for SEGA to fix it is going to do any of us any good. I sometimes take out my yasminkov 3000R and put it over my Tigordor because it's weaker and thus makes the enemies harder. I do this in solo play and find some areas are little more enjoyable because my attacks don't seem so...overpowered.

As to the enemy AI in general...well there's not much to be done for that expect petition SEGA and hope they don't fuck up.

As to "no falz this month", the quest hasn't even been OUT a month, so before ya start bitching about it, give it a chance. Yes, it's a random quest. It happens often enough that I'm already starting to be dissapointed by it's appearance. I actually could use a forest equest - Make it easier to do those Girard Client Orders. But nah, falz falz and more falz.

Also, agitated, I suggested people play HM because, yes, it's a little more boring at times, but not to appreciate PSO2 for itself...But to appreciate that it could be worse. That wasn't directed at you, but more an in-general suggestion for those who seem to stand resolute by "this game is boring repetitive and shallow and I have a half-counter for every suggestion to the opposite." Preemptive, really, as I don't see much if any of that in this thread (yet).

[Aquayoshi]

I kinda agree with OP on this one in that this game feels kinda shallow and empty compared to PSO1. (Don't hurt me! I just read the first post, I have no idea what was said after that.)
Mainly, the rares feel worthless because you have to get screwed by Doodoo before they even approach being usable, and even then there's nothing unique about them but their appearance.

In PSO, when you found a cool rare, you could just use it (even if it was untekked!) right then and there if you had the stats to equip it. Plus, the weapons were pretty unique and varied, like how the Frozen Shooter <3 could freeze enemies almost without fail, or how the Heaven Punisher could rain death down upon your foes at a certain time of day (and only ONE other weapon could do that!)

Also, you didn't start seeing things like twin sabers, double sabers, launchers etc. until you started getting rares in Hard, making these weapons feel cool and special, because not only were they rare weapons, they were a rare weapon type.

In PSO2, all this uniqueness is gone, replaced with boring equipment that you don't even need to max to be a badass what do that fightan thang gud.

That said, I still enjoy the hell out of this game, and if SEGA fixed grinding and drop rates, and made the weapons more unique and varied, it would be not just good, but amazing.

[jooozek]

Just because this isn't Ninja Gaiden doesn't mean it isn't skill based. Also, no offence, but you seem to be highly unreasonable. In the comparison matter, compared to other phantasy star games, and MMOs in general, PSO2 requires a lot more combat effort then the mass. If you fail to see that point then I fear you are way too deep in your own mind and you may need to take a break from gaming in general for a bit to flex your brain >.<

EDIT: Forgot to comment (as always >.>) the "fetch" and "kill" quests are just there as extras, you can go by without ever doing those, they are just a nice bonus when trying to decide what area to run, I do that quite often. "what area should I go too.. oh, got this order from Maroo, I can do that then"

I'm highly unreasonable because the game resolves about destroying paper bags while running in circles? Okay.
PSO2 requires more combat effort than PSO? Bullshit. Unless you are overlevelled in PSO nothing feels like a paper bag.
I need to flex my brain because I don't play other mediocre MMOs and it's okay for PSO2 to be as shallow and mediocre as they are? Okay.


As to "no falz this month", the quest hasn't even been OUT a month, so before ya start bitching about it, give it a chance. Yes, it's a random quest. It happens often enough that I'm already starting to be dissapointed by it's appearance. I actually could use a forest equest - Make it easier to do those Girard Client Orders. But nah, falz falz and more falz.

5 years ago I think I'd flip if someone told me that in PSO2 you have to wait like a retard every hour/two for SEGA to roll a dice to pick between you getting a single chance of fighting with him.

[ZIE creations]

I'm highly unreasonable because the game resolves about destroying paper bags while running in circles? Okay.
PSO2 requires more combat effort than PSO? Bullshit. Unless you are overlevelled in PSO nothing feels like a paper bag.
I need to flex my brain because I don't play other mediocre MMOs and it's okay for PSO2 to be as shallow and mediocre as they are? Okay.

Can't believe I'm replying.. wait... I don't have to, you proved every point I was making, thank you =^.^=

P.S.
-------PSO was a great game in its time, but it doesn't hold so well because it is one of the most shallow games I have ever played, the only thing that attracted me was the easy game play and the interesting world. Sorry if you hate me for saying this, but it's my strong opinion. (I do miss the value in rares though lol)

[Agitated_AT]

I'm proud of my levels because I take my time to enjoy clearing out the map and killing every mob I find in every room at my own pace to earn those levels. I am, by default, a very slow leveler; The fact that I'm past the midway point of hardmode is a miracle by how I normally play phantasy star. 400 Hours to hit lv100 in Zero; Never hit 200 in PSO1; Never hit a level cap worth mentioning in PSU - that is to say I did it in extra mode and once on the demo; And to be honest, if the mobs are too easy...Try a weaker weapon. If you really want every bit of challenge you can get. I don't find waiting around for SEGA to fix it is going to do any of us any good. I sometimes take out my yasminkov 3000R and put it over my Tigordor because it's weaker and thus makes the enemies harder. I do this in solo play and find some areas are little more enjoyable because my attacks don't seem so...overpowered.

As to the enemy AI in general...well there's not much to be done for that expect petition SEGA and hope they don't fuck up.

As to "no falz this month", the quest hasn't even been OUT a month, so before ya start bitching about it, give it a chance. Yes, it's a random quest. It happens often enough that I'm already starting to be dissapointed by it's appearance. I actually could use a forest equest - Make it easier to do those Girard Client Orders. But nah, falz falz and more falz.

Also, agitated, I suggested people play HM because, yes, it's a little more boring at times, but not to appreciate PSO2 for itself...But to appreciate that it could be worse. That wasn't directed at you, but more an in-general suggestion for those who seem to stand resolute by "this game is boring repetitive and shallow and I have a half-counter for every suggestion to the opposite." Preemptive, really, as I don't see much if any of that in this thread (yet).Don't worry bro. To be honest I perfectly understand and can relate to your point of view. I would even be able to change my mentality in order to appreciate the game more like some of you. But I've become more picky lately and i'm a big SEGA fan in general. I wouldn't have been here caring and complaining if it wasn't for that fact. I would have simply moved on the next game. While I have done that already, I still lurk around and want my voice heard when the subject comes up. Because it is important to me to find people with similar thoughts. Alone I can do nothing but when this voice is shared, gathered and brought forward, they might do something about it. While chances are small (since they are more focused with the Asian community), with the internet, chances are it could be spread by multilingual people or whatever. We'll see

[jooozek]

Can't believe I'm replying.. wait... I don't have to, you proved every point I was making, thank you =^.^=


If there is something you have proved, it's being a "troll".

[Galax]

Five years ago PSO2 was still a pipe dream and unrealistic hope that SEGA would listen to us.
Five years ago PSU was still barely a year old.
Five years ago people were still coming back to PSO private servers.
This year people are still playing PSO private servers, but they have PSO2 as well.
This year a "five years ago" argument is hardly valid unless you have a matching point from a more recent time frame.

Jooozek, it sounds to me like you've obtained a level where everything dies because you're just able to steamroll everything. I can easily inform you I get steamrolled as easily as you seem to steamroll mobs at times - But the game is still enjoyable. I'm really losing what the basis of your argument is...You have managed to, despite the said shallow boring repetitive gameplay of PSO2, hit lv40 Ranger lv40 Force lv40 Hunter on three characters, then lv47 Force lv23 Techer lv31 Ranger lv12 Gunner lv50 Hunter and lv50 Fighter...all on ONE CHARACTER? Since you can only have three chars per account, I'm assuming that means you unlocked all those level caps twice over...Or even four times over if they're not an accountwide unlock.

So I'm going to guess that is where you're getting the game is boring and repetitive. You've played TOO MUCH. Take a break. Wait for news about new content. Then come back and check it out. Best advice I can give you, man, because nothing we suggest is very likely to make the game less repetitive if you've put the hours in to get those kinds of levels.

[ZIE creations]

If there is something you have proved, it's being a "troll".

I'm a super fantastic, sugar covered troll wearing nothing bot men's Cologne and women's underwear, and you are a person who creates a thread only to complain and rant while attempting to shut down others opinions. Thanks man, now back to filling my room with cakes and muffins so I can eat myself to death while enjoying a game you seem to hate so much.

[Meji]

PSO was a great game in its time, but it doesn't hold so well because it is one of the most shallow games I have ever played, the only thing that attracted me was the easy game play and the interesting world. Sorry if you hate me for saying this, but it's my strong opinion. (I do miss the value in rares though lol)THIS IS SO ACCURATE.

[Ezodagrom]

Don't worry bro. To be honest I perfectly understand and can relate to your point of view. I would even be able to change my mentality in order to appreciate the game more like some of you. But I've become more picky lately and i'm a big SEGA fan in general. I wouldn't have been here caring and complaining if it wasn't for that fact. I would have simply moved on the next game. While I have done that already, I still lurk around and want my voice heard when the subject comes up. Because it is important to me to find people with similar thoughts. Alone I can do nothing but when this voice is shared, gathered and brought forward, they might do something about it. While chances are small (since they are more focused with the Asian community), with the internet, chances are it could be spread by multilingual people or whatever. We'll see
Without anyone taking the initiative to make a topic about this, nothing is going to happen, I guess. I almost did a topic myself, but in the end I couldn't find the right words to explain my thoughts. ^^;
I also still haven't played enough in very hard mode to check how different the enemy behaviour is between very hard and normal (that is, if there's any difference at all), so I wouldn't be the right person to make such a topic.

Also, it's possible that the topic could end up going off topic with people complaining more about the RNG than about the enemy AI...I guess... :|

[Alenoir]

Also, agitated, I suggested people play HM because, yes, it's a little more boring at times, but not to appreciate PSO2 for itself...But to appreciate that it could be worse.

Harvest Moon series is a different kind of games and requires a completely different mindset to play it. Don't compare simulation games to action games, they're just, different.

[Galax]

Harvest Moon series is a different kind of games and requires a completely different mindset to play it. Don't compare simulation games to action games, they're just, different.

That's like saying don't compare the movie to the book because the movie is on a screen and the book isn't. I wasn't comparing the games, I was comparing the repetitive aspect both of them share. FoMT and beyond, you mainly do the same thing every day in-game. I can still recite my winter routine for FoMT;

[SPOILER-BOX]Exit house
Go right
Go up and enter barn
talk to cows
brush cows
milk cows
put fodder in feed bins
leave
go left down left up
enter coop
pick up and put down chickens
collect all eggs
turn them to mayo
ship them
put chicken feed in feed bins
exit
brush horse wandering fields
try to fish for a little while
get bored
listen to music for rest of the game day because winter theme is best theme.[/SPOILER-BOX]

That's just one season of four. PSO2's routine is accept quest, clear mobs, kill boss, turn in client orders you may have completed. Wait on equest when announced in lobby. Do another "regular" quest, mpa grind after that, and then log out for a bit. Yes, repetitive. Both series. Similar in that aspect, and that's all I was comparing.

[jooozek]

Five years ago PSO2 was still a pipe dream and unrealistic hope that SEGA would listen to us.
Five years ago PSU was still barely a year old.
Five years ago people were still coming back to PSO private servers.
This year people are still playing PSO private servers, but they have PSO2 as well.
This year a "five years ago" argument is hardly valid unless you have a matching point from a more recent time frame.

Jooozek, it sounds to me like you've obtained a level where everything dies because you're just able to steamroll everything. I can easily inform you I get steamrolled as easily as you seem to steamroll mobs at times - But the game is still enjoyable. I'm really losing what the basis of your argument is...You have managed to, despite the said shallow boring repetitive gameplay of PSO2, hit lv40 Ranger lv40 Force lv40 Hunter on three characters, then lv47 Force lv23 Techer lv31 Ranger lv12 Gunner lv50 Hunter and lv50 Fighter...all on ONE CHARACTER? Since you can only have three chars per account, I'm assuming that means you unlocked all those level caps twice over...Or even four times over if they're not an accountwide unlock.

So I'm going to guess that is where you're getting the game is boring and repetitive. You've played TOO MUCH. Take a break. Wait for news about new content. Then come back and check it out. Best advice I can give you, man, because nothing we suggest is very likely to make the game less repetitive if you've put the hours in to get those kinds of levels.

For most time when I want to play the game I fall in the loop before I even launch the game:

I feel like playing the game -> recalling what I have to do -> realising that the most efficient way to what I want is the most boring way and doing anything else is a real waste of time (sup MPA, 12x multiplier) -> doing it, getting bored after 10 minutes -> going to Doodoo with all my fortune -> my shiny turd at +8 will be now +3 after using up what I've gained from 10 hours of gameplay -> decide to not launch the game at all.

And as been said, there is no point in hunting rares because they are just reskins with different stats which you don't need. In the old PSO even stock vanilla weapons could've gotten something nice like being able to drain HP or EXP.

And then, there is the problem of the skill trees and lack of differences between races outside of stats difference. Why do I need to put points into a skill tree just to see traps or see them? Hell, as a HUcast I can't even put that skill point in to see them. Hell, I can't even use traps as a HUcast. If you weren't a cast, you could always equip the armor which allowed you to see traps. Additional skill-trees don't work too, because they don't let you use more points, they just allow you for a different allocation of them and as we all know the way the trees are designed and classes are you are pretty much forced for certain stuff. It's a shame that they didn't make a few vertical bars with specialisations segregated by passive boosts/specialisation, like, why do I need to get few points in passive boosts just to get an active skill that I want? Shouldn't I be able to freely chose what I pick and if I dig in that, to focus on it? There is so many ways around making skilltrees not being so painful in using but instead they picked the route in which you are punished by bad choices which you can only redeem by buying an additional skill tree. Mind you, I don't mind paying for an additional skill tree but what good will it do me if it will look almost the same as the current one I'm using?

Generally, after playing PSO:BB my eyes have opened, that's why I've made this thread, not because I've hit the level caps (I've hit them days ago, shortly after they lowered the exp requirements) or got bored because I'm already on my 4th character.

[Galax]

So, you don't like that they changed the game, and find BB to be better.

Go play BB then. I don't have anything else I can suggest. You're telling me that BB did this and this and that and the other better, then go play it where it's better. I'm not going to, because I enjoy PSO2, even moreso than I did PSO1. I understand that you don't, I respect that, and I'm not gonna use any more time trying to point out why at least some of us seem to like it/why I like it/why some points you make aren't making sense to me after this post.

Rangers see traps now if you get the trap search skill. You want to see traps as HUcast? Get it on ranger and sub ranger. Now you can. However, trap search is a wasted point in the end, because you can dodge traps easily - there's more than enough time once they pop up to dodge out of the way. You have to try or be knocked under one by a mob to get hit by it normally. The most trap search is good for is seeing those immobilizing ring traps, and you can't even break those unless you trip them.

As to buying a skill tree if you fuck up, welcome to free to play. You get one for free and everything else costs money. At least it's not pay to win.

And...you mean to tell me that though the mobs are paper bags you need to grind your stuff with DooDoo to make them usable? No, I don't think that works out in a logical way...If the mobs are so easy, why do you need to buff your guns to kill them? I do just fine and I don't grind my weapons, ever. I don't affix either. I prefer to dodge anything coming my way, y'know?

But I'll just guess that you've got some reason the contradictions I'm seeing aren't true or there's an explanation that the points I've just tried to make aren't actually points or something...Since that's what I've seen this whole time. You say you don't play ( -> don't boot the game anymore) but you felt the need to make a topic about how shallow the game is...a game you say you've stopped playing. Okay...

[CelestialBlade]

Games evolve and change, even within series. PSO1 is an entirely different game than PSU or PSO2, the latter aren't just patches that build upon existing systems. They're new and independent, and they may or may not do things better or worse. I'm sick and goddamn tired of people expecting this or that from PSO1 in PSO2. Personally I think PSO2 improves on everything from 1. 1 had more challenge, but it's nowhere near as fun. That isn't even a fair comparison anyway, with the games being ~10 years apart. PSO2 is a new game; just because one likes 1 doesn't mean they'll like 2, and vice versa.

Threads like these are fine...as a community thing I guess. The reality is, Sega's target market is Japan, and the game's doing pretty well there, so they have no reason to change anything unless their target audience complains. The style of PSO2 caters more to Japan's desires than the rest of the world's, so even if the US or whatever as a country hated one aspect, it's not going to matter if the Japanese are okay with it (RNG). These are great discussion threads, but don't expect them to do anything from a business standpoint. If the game's not for you, and you don't see the improvements you'd like to see in the foreseeable future, take a break.


tl;dr Don't expect PSO1 in PSO2. It's different, compare it against itself.

[Z-0]

It's funny seeing people stand up for this game sometimes.

What people don't understand is that those who complain do like the game, but it has certain, major flaws which ruin it, and it's not good watching it get worse and worse, when the game itself has potential.

I'm idling most of the time (I wonder why...), and usually when I play, it's just TA. I'm just waiting for the Advance Quests to make their debut, but who knows how long I'll be waiting? At least there's some fun things to do like Ranki-- oh wait hahahahaha sega lowers chances.

[jooozek]

So, you don't like that they changed the game, and find BB to be better.

Go play BB then. I don't have anything else I can suggest. You're telling me that BB did this and this and that and the other better, then go play it where it's better. I'm not going to, because I enjoy PSO2, even moreso than I did PSO1. I understand that you don't, I respect that, and I'm not gonna use any more time trying to point out why at least some of us seem to like it/why I like it/why some points you make aren't making sense to me after this post.
And I'm telling you why I can't enjoy it anymore.

Rangers see traps now if you get the trap search skill. You want to see traps as HUcast? Get it on ranger and sub ranger. Now you can. However, trap search is a wasted point in the end, because you can dodge traps easily - there's more than enough time once they pop up to dodge out of the way. You have to try or be knocked under one by a mob to get hit by it normally. The most trap search is good for is seeing those immobilizing ring traps, and you can't even break those unless you trip them.
You know, past trap search there is more to what I said...

As to buying a skill tree if you fuck up, welcome to free to play. You get one for free and everything else costs money. At least it's not pay to win.
Indeed, you need to buy a tree only if you fuck up, well said.

And...you mean to tell me that though the mobs are paper bags you need to grind your stuff with DooDoo to make them usable? No, I don't think that works out in a logical way...If the mobs are so easy, why do you need to buff your guns to kill them? I do just fine and I don't grind my weapons, ever. I don't affix either. I prefer to dodge anything coming my way, y'know?
You know, I can't "enjoy the new content" that SEGA delivered without visiting d00d00, you know? Why is it so? Because latent abilities require me to grind something to +10 and then it resets to +0, I need to do that three times in order to achieve the final level of the latent ability. Datamining has uncovered some stuff but it seems that the actual worth it abilities aren't used yet and might not be used at all ever. As it is latent abilities are mostly useless and even stupid. You know what does the Duel Gaze talis get? Upper trapper boost IIRC.

But I'll just guess that you've got some reason the contradictions I'm seeing aren't true or there's an explanation that the points I've just tried to make aren't actually points or something...Since that's what I've seen this whole time. You say you don't play ( -> don't boot the game anymore) but you felt the need to make a topic about how shallow the game is...a game you say you've stopped playing. Okay...
Brah, as I've said I didn't quit nor do I plan to quit.

Tip: don't take examples as the only route of going about. Just because I mention how my routine looks doesn't mean it always is the same. Just because I mention trap search doesn't mean I'm talking about it precisely. I've been just showing how much they watered down stuff, what you could do in PSO is is now behind a grindwall/paywall/bad design.

It seems like some people are here more in for the arguing not actually views exchange. With that said, if you plan to ridicule anything I've said I'm just not gonna respond because there isn't much point, it feels like (I am) talking to a wall.

And do note that some stuff I've only said because I felt aggravated by some responses here.

P.S. If I knew everything I wanted I wouldn't post, I'd be a god that doesn't need to play games even

[The Walrus]

Guys guys guys. I think we can all agree that PSO2, while fun, is a greatly flawed game with the potential to be amazing.


That said, bets on how fast this tanks in the US?

[Kion]

That is if it even get's running in the first place. It would be nice to see SoA take this seriously by providing a time line. Maybe use their facebook page. I mean Sakai was really active in keeping everyone up to date for the beta and explaining what the development team was working on. SoA seems to have trouble not tripping over their velcro shoes....

[megamegabuster]

Wow! Based on the comments it seems like the PSU-depression all over again where PSU was okay but not okay enough for the time it was released. Hmmm...maybe 'okay' is stretching it, since PSU hardly had any content to make it acceptable even ten years ago.

This is the problem with recent PS games, they just don't keep up with the ever growing demand of videogames' quality with the exception of PSP2(i) which, imo, always had something motivating or interesting to discover or do.

It's the polar opposite of PS's stellar online release on the DC. Something that was so far ahead of its years. I don't get what happened, they're creative streak was on a roll.

[Retehi]

Quit getting mad at video games.

[The Walrus]

There's a difference between being mad at the game and just being disappointed that it doesn't live up to it's potential.

[Zyrusticae]

I have a really hard time giving a shit about the premise of this thread.

There's only one game in my view that currently beats PSO2, and that's Dragon's Dogma, and that's just because it's the Best Game Ever Made so it wouldn't even be a fair comparison.

In truth, I got sick and bored of the repetitive gameplay in PSO1 far quicker than I ever did of PSO2's, even when all we had was the forest, caves, and desert. There just wasn't that much to do in that game after you'd beaten everything already - what was the point? I sure as hell didn't see it. It was great the first few times through piecing the story together and everything, but it just didn't stand up to repeat playthroughs.

That being said, I still do think they should do more to make MPAs more interesting, with more codes and, in particular, more fights where you have to tackle multiple bosses at once, because that's when things get really interesting. I can count on my two hands the number of times that I actually got the chance to participate in that kind of mayhem, which is a damn shame. It needs to happen more often.

I love it when you get a Code Rescue, Code Destruction and a Code Attack all running at once in roughly the same area. Makes things tense!

By the way, the game has the most absurdly brisk update schedule for a video game ever in the history of mankind. I'm serious. You can't find a game that gets updated as often and with as much content as PSO2. Go ahead. Try. You won't find one.

[[Ayumi]]

Just a special note, they did at requirements for progression... so technically there is some "objective" or challenge, and unlike previous phantasy star MMOs, this one has client orders which gives objectives.

If you played PSO / PSU or even monster hunter >.< you shouldn't be surprised about some repetitiveness and extremely shallow drops. PSO2 still has far more variation then PSO / PSU and it's in the early stages, maybe they will add some really challenges in the future, where you will want those shiny weapons, but even then you won't "need" them since the game *gasp* is skill based! Dodge / strike and win.

EDIT: I forgot epic bosses! sorry >.<

Not necessarily "MMO" but it was an online PS game... PSP2 and PSP2i both had Client Orders and certain objectives you needed to do to unlock other Orders.
I would know as I did every single one of them... heh.


It's funny seeing people stand up for this game sometimes.

What people don't understand is that those who complain do like the game, but it has certain, major flaws which ruin it, and it's not good watching it get worse and worse, when the game itself has potential.

I'm idling most of the time (I wonder why...), and usually when I play, it's just TA. I'm just waiting for the Advance Quests to make their debut, but who knows how long I'll be waiting? At least there's some fun things to do like Ranki-- oh wait hahahahaha sega lowers chances.

It's funny seeing how you don't get your own argument in this post.
As you said, people that's complaining might like the game, but don't like certain things of the game. Not everyone will like the same things or dislike the same things.
It also matters on what someone would call a "flaw" as well.
Like you say trollingly(Is that a word? If not, whatever. English is annoying.) say you at least have some fun stuff to do like Ranking when you're not idling or doing TA.
The thing is that's fun for "you", let's say for someone like me, rather they remove ranking altogether and also only do TA for the meseta and nothing more.
"my" fun is playing all classes and leveling them up, doing all the client orders and getting everyone's affection to red, waiting impatiently for my Guld Milla to return to me and both talking to friends and helping out lower levels or even higher levels with something they're aiming to do. Whether it's to level up, doing an order, helping them on their TA, unlocking something, etc etc etc.

In the end, everyone have their own opinion on everything. There's no point bashing someone for what they think because well... it's their opinion.
But hey, a forum isn't a forum or better yet... the internet isn't the internet unless someone bash someone for their opinion and swear by the almighty power of Rico that their opinion is fact.

[pikachief]

I also agree that the game is a bit shallow and more than a bit boring for the most part.

As a whole, its the phantasy star game that I have had the least amounts of fun with. I'm pretty sure I enjoy PSU and PSO currently more than I enjoy PSO2 (even at their current, offline states)

Don't get me wrong though, the game is fun, but I just do not have the excitement to get addicted or invovled in the game at all like I usually do with any other Phantasy Star game. I often wonder why I don't know what drops what and where everything drops like I normally do, or what is in all the latest updates or what is where. Maybe its because I don't have the time but I also feel like I just don't care enough about this game like I did the others.

It's just very... meh.

I often find myself popping online just because I haven't for a while and I want to keep up at least a little because it seems very hard to find a low level party.

That's another reason why I dislike this game: I seem to have a very hard time finding any sort of party. Desert, Forest, Tundra, Ruins, Mines, Caves, Sky Islands. I seem to have a hard time finding a party for any mission on any block in any difficulty! Especially anything that isn't very hard mode. It turns days where I'd normally be playing for hours and hunting and stuff into days where I log in for an hour, hopelessly look for someone to do runs with because I need to finish a certain client order to get a little more caught up with everyone else, but everyone's too busy fulfilling their own un-related hunts or client orders to help, or soloing with bots.

/rant.

PSO > PSP2 > PSU > PSO2. /opinion.

[megamegabuster]

Quit getting mad at video games.

What is such a cool guy like you doing at a place like an mmo forum?

[MetalDude]

Love this game, but shit it definitely has some controversial aspects and problems. I can accept that this is F2P and that they have to make money somewhere (and even where they skimped out, it's very cheap to get like mags, new characters, skill trees, etc). But even premium users can't get around beyond awful RNG between finding rares or grinding and adding abilities to them. I entirely disagree with whoever said PSO1 was not much better, because that's some crap. 10*s had fairly decent rates and for some IDs, they were placed amongst other good rares that you could find along the way (Redria Spread Needle hunts could also have you finding a DF Field or high hit Diska of Braveman).

Quest variety is absolutely nowhere near PSO1's level: TTF/RT, Rappy Holiday, EN1-4/PW1-4, Towers (specifically unique areas and enemies to those and some other quests), and a slew of unusual and pace-changing quests. Latent abilities seemed like a decent shot at restoring the thing that made many weapons in PSO1 very valuable outside of their attack stat (Guld Milla's Unreduced Gush makes it heavily favored by RAcast/caseal rather than just picking up the somewhat stronger Mille Martauex; Froozer's not strong but its special is an essential part of the RA toolkit), but it's hilariously pathetic and a colossal waste of time and money in its current state outside of, surprise surprise, Psycho Wand which actually has a substantially useful ability that is very similar to the original Psycho Wand.

[Gama]

yeah its a casual game, what did you expect?

i'm perfectly fine with it.

if you dont like it, dont play it.

[Zyrusticae]

PSO > PSP2 > PSU > PSO2. /opinion.
Horse shit.

You seriously enjoyed playing White Beast over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over again!?

You are insane.

Your opinion is invalid.

[MetalDude]

You forgot another "and over".

[Akaimizu]

Well, to tell you the truth. I was actually one of those folks who played PSU and DIDN'T run White Beast to that level.

Naw. I did that for Sakura Blast, but still no Milla drop to get from it.

I wish I could've been like Beetleguise and said, "I've run Sakura Blast 107,000 times and it keeps getting funnier everytime I run it!!"

On the other hand, I actually still, to this day, don't hate that mission. It was a pretty good gun-levelling mission. Not the best (The Winter/Lightning Festival army of Pannon spawn craziness was), but it was good.

[jooozek]

(...)

I often find myself popping online just because I haven't for a while and I want to keep up at least a little because it seems very hard to find a low level party.

That's another reason why I dislike this game: I seem to have a very hard time finding any sort of party. Desert, Forest, Tundra, Ruins, Mines, Caves, Sky Islands. I seem to have a hard time finding a party for any mission on any block in any difficulty! Especially anything that isn't very hard mode. It turns days where I'd normally be playing for hours and hunting and stuff into days where I log in for an hour, hopelessly look for someone to do runs with because I need to finish a certain client order to get a little more caught up with everyone else, but everyone's too busy fulfilling their own un-related hunts or client orders to help, or soloing with bots.

/rant.

PSO > PSP2 > PSU > PSO2. /opinion.

The drop rates on PSO2 are abyssmal so when you luck out and something drops, you want it to be something good. In this game good means only x-ATK and easiness of grinding it. If there is no Falz then all that is left is Ruins. I can't really think of any other reasons why is there always a mob playing Ruins and nothing else at late hours. Ruins drop: Blade Dance, Dagunslash, Lambda Jagriath, Vraolet Zero, Milky Twinkle, Cannon Legacy, Lambda Radiegle, Lambda Aristin, Ruin Charm, Lambda Garland, Mehrennenka, Yasminkov 9000M, Lambda Religioh, Madam Umbrella, Stag Cutlery, Latria Rain, Wolgha Hand, Lambda Rhongomyniad, Fossil Tricks, Plosion, Liewen Book, Imperial Pick... and so on. That's all that the crowd wants.

[Retehi]

What is such a cool guy like you doing at a place like an mmo forum?

That's a good question. :(

[Ezodagrom]

The drop rates on PSO2 are abyssmal so when you luck out and something drops, you want it to be something good. In this game good means only x-ATK and easiness of grinding it. If there is no Falz then all that is left is Ruins. I can't really think of any other reasons why is there always a mob playing Ruins and nothing else at late hours. Ruins drop: Blade Dance, Dagunslash, Lambda Jagriath, Vraolet Zero, Milky Twinkle, Cannon Legacy, Lambda Radiegle, Lambda Aristin, Ruin Charm, Lambda Garland, Mehrennenka, Yasminkov 9000M, Lambda Religioh, Madam Umbrella, Stag Cutlery, Latria Rain, Wolgha Hand, Lambda Rhongomyniad, Fossil Tricks, Plosion, Liewen Book, Imperial Pick... and so on. That's all that the crowd wants.
Question, is there any need to get strong equipment at all in PSO2 in its current state?


Horse shit.

You seriously enjoyed playing White Beast over and over [...] and over again!?

You are insane.

Your opinion is invalid.
PSO1 had that problem too, TTF.

[EvilMag]

Horse shit.

You seriously enjoyed playing White Beast over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over again!?

You are insane.

Your opinion is invalid.
Fun fact, stuff outside of White Beast existed.

If you were playing on JP

[MetalDude]

TTF 1-80 isn't something you can fault too badly. Ultimate is simply where everything is at. Past that? Unless you're hunting RR/PGF (on RT), the spam with it can get annoying. However, it's not the end all be all to hunting. At all. Great for experience, great to hunt RR, and that's about it outside of the initial pack of Hildelts in Forest 2. It's not practical for hunting certain rares. The spam comes from how good it is experience-wise.

[jooozek]

Question, is there any need to get strong equipment at all in PSO2 in its current state?

Since you are quoting my post I'll just bold out the part answering your question, why do they want, I do not know:

(...). That's all that the crowd wants.

[Z-0]

People act like running in circles is all there is in this game.

Good equipment does matter, providing you do things where it matters. Running around in circles is not one of them.

[EvilMag]

People act like running in circles is all there is in this game.

Good equipment does matter, providing you do things where it matters. Running around in circles is not one of them.

Tell that to the Axeonmans.

:>

[pikachief]

Horse shit.

You seriously enjoyed playing White Beast over and over [...] again!?

You are insane.

Your opinion is invalid.

no, which is why I didn't. I played True Darkness, and SEED Express, and Desert Terror, and SEED Awakening, and The Dark God, and Valley of Carnage, Lab Recovery, Train Rescue, Crimson Beasts, Mad Beasts, Moonlight Beasts, and a variety of other missions I enjoyed playing from time to time that were all either fun or at least all at one point of time had drops that interested me. It was a rare occasion that I ever needed anything from White Beast. The drops were not special and neither was the EXP nor the MP. There was hardly reason for me to go to White Beast.

[FerrPSO]

For me, its the maps.

Gameplay wise PSO2 is far better than PSO1, because of the combat style.

Yet the maps are too shallow and it feels like a straight line full of filler mobs waiting me to be killed.

Thats the problem with random generated maps. TA was a step in the right direction, and I would like maps that encourage exploration. Or maybe some changes in the areas or enemies , like Demon's Souls World Tendency.

But I know I would probably be in the minority because almost everyone just want fast mops to get their shinny rare.



Also, is discouraging to find so few rares. I know in PSO1 I got a lot of shit rares I didnt even want to, but atleast that gaves me hope to find better drops. Is sad do be hunting for a whole week a weapon, and not just not getting that drop, but anything at all.


That being said, I still do think they should do more to make MPAs more interesting, with more codes and, in particular, more fights where you have to tackle multiple bosses at once, because that's when things get really interesting. I can count on my two hands the number of times that I actually got the chance to participate in that kind of mayhem, which is a damn shame. It needs to happen more often.

I agree, MPA should have more "chaos" in it. Droprate sucks anyways so I dont see why Sega is so afraid on putting multiple bosses and shit at the same time.

[Opy]

I'm trying to think of a game that isn't repetitive.

[MetalDude]

It's pretty much impossible not to find one, but you're also missing the point. A great game takes an idea and not only executes it well but continues to provide interesting ways to use it removing the feeling of repetition and making the game feel fresh the whole way throughout. You need variety to keep the game from feeling stale and PSO2 provides little in the way of that. TAs are practically the only thing different from the rest of the game. Arks Quests follow a format of survey points, learning about a code, and fighting a midboss for nearly every single area. All to unlock free exploration which is what you use to farm in MPAs for four hours at a time. There are no options to change it up beyond directly hunting for what you're interested in.

[jooozek]

I'm trying to think of a game that isn't repetitive.

Can we stop with this "repetetive" thing already? The only people who mentioned that this game is repetetive are people who are defending the game in it's current state.

[Zyrusticae]

Still not giving a shit.

Still having fun.

Yep.

[Ezodagrom]

For me, its the maps.

Gameplay wise PSO2 is far better than PSO1, because of the combat style.

Yet the maps are too shallow and it feels like a straight line full of filler mobs waiting me to be killed.
And maps weren't shallow in PSO1?
In some areas it was mostly corridor -> square room -> corridor -> square room.

[Agitated_AT]

Without anyone taking the initiative to make a topic about this, nothing is going to happen, I guess. I almost did a topic myself, but in the end I couldn't find the right words to explain my thoughts. ^^;
I also still haven't played enough in very hard mode to check how different the enemy behaviour is between very hard and normal (that is, if there's any difference at all), so I wouldn't be the right person to make such a topic.

Also, it's possible that the topic could end up going off topic with people complaining more about the RNG than about the enemy AI...I guess... :|

Lol yeah I was thinking about doing the same. But seeing where this thread is going, many care more about the RNG rather than the quality, fun and balanced field/area experiences which should be the main attraction and the one that keeps you busy and engaged. Finding rares should be simply the result of that repeatedly fun and engaging experience. Repetitiveness isn't bad. But when it's not engaging it gets boring. When every run feels like you have to prove yourself(consistently) again, alone or combined with others, that's when it becomes more fun to do it. I've said this before, but the only thing that keeps players doing early content is because of the level requirements and collecting. You rarely feel underpowered. There is no such thing as risk v reward in this game. I don't agree it was absent in PSO1 as well, but even if it was, i'll say it was flawed then and that it is flawed now.

It is like people don't understand that the experience which results in finding all these rares is more important than finding the rares themselves. Not only that, but the rares are as you said, kind of useless when you don't really need them anyway.

So what this game simply needs is better and more agressive AI. You kill mobs for experience and loot. Let those 2 things be the reward of being able to kill them. Especially from hard and very hard.

[eharima]

wooohohohohoo! sure is 'QQ rng no luck i hate you sega', 'myopinion is right', 'nostalgia goggles dont work on pso2' and 'zomg so much wasted potential but no suggestions to improve' in this thread.

you know they have a give us your opinion and ideas report form right?
https://ssl.pso2.jp/players/support/inquiry/?mode=opinion

jooozek, i dont unerstand what you actually WANT the game to be.

pso2 is shallow! wet paper bags! i cant grind my weapons! shit luck! dodo! rng! 10*!

is the game RNG too hard, but the enemy not hard enough?
what improvements do you want? how will this affect the economy, populous and of course AC sales, because these are things you have to consider.
things that appease you, might discourage a large majority,, and thats not good business.
im sure you'll come with 'thats all the crowd wants' analogy or 'its segas job to entertain ME!
or something, but you need to understand that developers cannot please everyone and have to make money, and they cant please you if they dont know how.
ying and yang, you cannot have one without the other.

are you dissapointed that it isnt a true sequel like PSO episode 5 extension and would have been better if called phantasy star; derp falz back once again like a renegade master
so not to give the impression of a sequel

is it because the game isnt finished? lacking 'content'? would you rather have waited another 3 years for a more 'final version' with less drip feed?

what do you actually want? if nothing else you might even get a game recomendation wwww

i dont know about your experience with PSO1 but for many it set the standard so high at such a crucial life stage, being such a pioneering game and beeing early teens (and probably your native language) no game will ever live up to it,
no game will ever replace or fill that feeling of PSO1, because there are many other influencing factors that can never be relived.

[The Walrus]

It'd be nice if they stopped letting the areas be randomly generated and instead did like the first and made the maps the same for each quest but have a little randomness in the free areas. They could also let bosses and enemies have their stats scale to the number of players in an area along with more AI upgrades. Maybe starting at VHard give enemies a new attack or two so there's something new. That along with expanding the potential ability system by adding better abilities combined with making the grinding system much more lenient would really make PSO2 a much more entertaining game imo.


OH RIGHT, more boss fights like Dark Falz. Cause Dark Falz is the most fun thing to fight in the entire game right now.

[Sealco555]

As much as I know it probably won't happen, I would love for the future Ultimate difficulty to have 90% new and stronger enemies, like PSO1 did. Sure, most of them were just reskins with the same AI, but there were a few that actually made the game harder. No one could deny that Ob Lillies and Indi Belras were significantly more terrifying than their Normal-VH counterparts.

[ArcaneTechs]

Oh god i'm playing a grinding game which has more grinding than PSU, WHY CANT I LEVEL AS FAST LIKE PSU?!?!?! THIS GAME SUCKS SCREW PSO2! I WON'T PLAY OUT OF PROTEST FOR THE US/EU VERSION, THAT'LL TEACH SEGA TO DO THINGS RIGHT!!- people who hate pso2

really if you cant stand all this grinding then go play something else, going from normal to hard mode, leveling is easier with the increase of exp on random E Codes and what not, stop complaining and go play Extra Mode, they cant make leveling anymore easier than this

[Alenoir]

Maybe starting at VHard give enemies a new attack or two so there's something new.

They are probably experimenting with that (http://i.imgur.com/auDo9.jpg) right now.

[The Walrus]

Oh right some of the rare bosses have new attacks. Forgot about that.

Sadly I haven't seen any of them yet.

[Zyrusticae]

OH RIGHT, more boss fights like Dark Falz. Cause Dark Falz is the most fun thing to fight in the entire game right now.
Damn right. I agree with this 100%.

Also more of that badass boss music please~ (This is par for the course, I know)

[Ezodagrom]

Maybe starting at VHard give enemies a new attack or two so there's something new.
Either that or replacing their current attacks with new, faster, more effective attacks in VHard or higher difficulties, that would be nice.

Oh well, even with all its flaws, I still enjoy playing PSO2.
PSO1 and PSU had bigger flaws anyway.

[gigawuts]

It's interesting watching someone play PSO1 for the first time, ever, after playing PSO2, and then when they realize PSO1 really was better in a variety of ways the forum essentially knocks their teeth out for having the gall to call a sequel anything but the second coming of e-jesus.

They can't claim nostalgia, or any of the normal stuff. So they say it's the same game but PSO2 has better combat. Then they say to STFU and go play the other game.

No discussion about using the suggestion system to suggest improvements. No admittance whatsoever that a sequel can in any way shape or form not be as good, deep, or interesting as the original. It's all, entirely 100% superior. There is literally not even one single inferior aspect.

Some people around here need to watch Jurassic Park 2 and 3.

[jooozek]

Yeah, it feels bad. I feel bad for myself for never getting past normal mode previously.
Anyway eharima, I'm making a post, I'll edit this post later with only the suggestions, only them because I feel that you will understand stuff when I post them and dispel your prejudice.

[Zyrusticae]

It's interesting watching someone play PSO1 for the first time, ever, after playing PSO2, and then when they realize PSO1 really was better in a variety of ways the forum essentially knocks their teeth out for having the gall to call a sequel anything but the second coming of e-jesus.
There is literally only one thing that I consider PSO1 superior at: The music.

Even then, PSO2's music is still good. Just not as good.

But then, I never played to Ultimate difficulty. In fact I kind of got bored after the 5th time I ran Episode 1 Dark Falz. In fact I never even played Episode 2 (though this is more because I played the original Dreamcast version).

I'm sure those who've played to that level have a distinctly different experience than me, but I don't share that experience.

[eharima]

It's interesting watching someone play PSO1 for the first time, ever, after playing PSO2, and then when they realize PSO1 really was better in a variety of ways the forum essentially knocks their teeth out for having the gall to call a sequel anything but the second coming of e-jesus.

They can't claim nostalgia, or any of the normal stuff. So they say it's the same game but PSO2 has better combat. Then they say to STFU and go play the other game.
an opinion is an opinion? of course things will be better in certain aspects, theya re different games, its almost pointless to compare the 2.


No discussion about using the suggestion system to suggest improvements.



you know they have a give us your opinion and ideas report form right?
https://ssl.pso2.jp/players/support/inquiry/?mode=opinion
wat?


No admittance whatsoever that a sequel can in any way shape or form not be as good, deep, or interesting as the original. It's all, entirely 100% superior. There is literally not even one single inferior aspect.
subjective opinion of the individual in context once again. I fail to see your sarcastic point.

[Polly]

Some people around here need to watch Jurassic Park 2 and 3.

I'm stunned at how well this works with your argument. xD

[jooozek]

Let me list the basic stuff that I'd welcome personally:


totally removing passiveness of the monsters in at least very hard
buff up monster resistances to no-attribute attacks, that would sink synthesizers
buff the HP of monsters in MPA accordingly to the number of players in the sectors the monster is and every around it at time of it spawning
make the monsters actually start inflicting statuses, as it is now there is only a few attacks in the game that inflict them and mostly it's for bosses
enemies should also be able to debuff you with zalure/jellen, and buff yourself with shifta/deband
speed up the enemies more and more with each difficulty
after you do that make the rares actually rares that are more than 3d models with just different stats aka bring back specials but instead of adding a new button for it, add a "fake" Photon Art for each weapon that "unleashes" the hidden attack
with no ATA in this game, the proc rate would need to be decreased and instead calculated basing on either ability or the difference in level between you and the enemy, let's say that the base of procing would be 20%, for every level that you are lower than the enemy you get 1% but the proc rate would be capped at 30%
no "best" specials (devil/demon/shadow/dark/hell/lord/king/fill/gush series) should be available
traps shouldn't be a buyable consumable, the trap skills should give you an amount of traps and the level of them should decide what amount of traps you can carry and at what rate they regenerate
Partisan/Sword/Wired Lance Just Guard (the skills) has one huge issue, it only works with the direction you are facing with, meanwhile, for Twin Daggers you do not need the Just Guard skill to be able to Just Guard and it is omnidirectional at that, twin daggers being a weapon very offensive and sword being slow and requiring more skill to use (please, ignore Sonic Arrow for now) isn't really justifable to have be facing the enemy to be able to Just Guard from him, same goes for Partisan/Wired Lance
Photon Arts are for most gimmicky, only 1-4 of each weapon's PA set is useable and worth putting on the combo bar so at least for the gimmicky PAs the damage should be buffed
while we are at the combo bar, we should be able to pick per weapon how the PA/Technique slot works, whether it is the combo slots (melee weapons) or like the tech stuff (fixed slots) but seeing how currently the button for swapping the pallette is also the button for additional actions for weapons it would be hard to do
double tapping to dash should be an option that one can switch off, no reason to force it on everyone
after fixing the rares and the enemies, adjust the drop rates accordingly, personally, I'm fine with the current drop rates (I've got loads of rares) but with the 10* and higher not being tradeable you need to get them yourself so it's only fair to raise the drop rates because that is the only way you will ever get them
lenient abilities shouldn't reset what you already attained for a marginal boost that you don't need, stuff like that should already be sometimes unlocked when dropping and cost a photon sphere+1 for every level to unlock so you'd need 6 total (1 for lv1, 2 for lv2, 3 for lv3)
nerf weak bullet so it doesn't already stack with weak spots, that would increase the role of rangers as debuffers and remove the retarded steamrolling that occurs now
redo the retarded grinding system, I don't know how but holy shit, if someone uses 8 full protectors to go from +8 to +8 and someone else goes from +8 to +10 in 13 protectors then it is clearly something wrong; even the most grindy grinds didn't have such punishment rate, at best you needed 1 or 2 safety stones for only the last upgrade! if you want to sink meseta from the system then use something more reasonable that a despair machine which comes to...
add some small cosmetic meseta sinks, like recolouring parts of costumes that the recycle shop ticket doesn't cover,
with the current drop rates grinding attributes is really hard, with the enemy resistances boost it should get easier - first of all, why do we need a second copy of the same weapon and have it only add 1% if it doesn't have the same attribute? As I see it now, for 10* and higher items you should get boosted procent rate, the only competition for attribute grinding comes from AC Scratch and even that requires you to have the same copy of the same weapon and all that while everyone sits on thousands of synthesizers so maybe utilise them for some boost tickets? 100 for 3% and you still need another copy of the weapon? or remove the need of having the same copy of the weapon to even use the tickets in first place? that seems logical with the drop rates being abyssmal


And that is only the basic stuff that I can think off, I'll maybe add some later. Just remember that I've tried to "balance" this around it all being implemented so don't relate it to the stuff that is already in the game


Oh god i'm playing a grinding game which has more grinding than PSU, WHY CANT I LEVEL AS FAST LIKE PSU?!?!?! THIS GAME SUCKS SCREW PSO2! I WON'T PLAY OUT OF PROTEST FOR THE US/EU VERSION, THAT'LL TEACH SEGA TO DO THINGS RIGHT!!- people who hate pso2

really if you cant stand all this grinding then go play something else, going from normal to hard mode, leveling is easier with the increase of exp on random E Codes and what not, stop complaining and go play Extra Mode, they cant make leveling anymore easier than this

I really felt like I needed to address this so let me spell it out for you: lrn2read

[eharima]

ill reply in this place holder , but falz is on in 10 min, jump on?
then thats be thing off the check list of things to do in pso2 2012

[Agitated_AT]

I totally stand behind everything you said joozek. We always argue about different things and you summed up everything i probably thought about once or spoke about. It would *fix* the game but also improve it even more.

Its too bad the developers wont think of a list like that

[Ezodagrom]

I totally stand behind everything you said joozek. We always argue about different things and you summed up everything i probably thought about once or spoke about. It would *fix* the game but also improve it even more.

Its too bad the developers wont think of a list like that
Or most likely they won't even know such a list exists.

[ZIE creations]

This thread led me to...
=play PSO EP2 through emulator for about 40 minutes - got bored
=play PSU extra mode on xbox 360 - got super bored (though I admit bringing my bot with me was refreshing)
=Play PSP2 for about an hour - got bored of the same maps and rusty visual

Realized how much I appreciate PSO2 for what it is. Only thing it really needs without ruining what it has is a more difficult mode, like an ultimate mode with stronger / faster enemies. The game is a casual action game, if they made everything impossible they would lose most of their target audience, but there is nothing wrong with them adding more advanced quests and challenges. I remember PSU ran extremely well in Japan for 2 years before they added anything remotely challenging, then they release GAM (or whatever it was called)

The game is fine as is, is not even close to broken, but could use more pleasing features for the advanced player base. As for me, I enjoy the game for what it is, I have other games to fill the gaps PSO2 leaves as PSO2 fills gaps no other game can.

[Ezodagrom]

This thread led me to...
=play PSO EP2 through emulator for about 40 minutes - got bored
=play PSU extra mode on xbox 360 - got super bored (though I admit bringing my bot with me was refreshing)
=Play PSP2 for about an hour - got bored of the same maps and rusty visual

Realized how much I appreciate PSO2 for what it is. Only thing it really needs without ruining what it has is a more difficult mode, like an ultimate mode with stronger / faster enemies. The game is a casual action game, if they made everything impossible they would lose most of their target audience, but there is nothing wrong with them adding more advanced quests and challenges. I remember PSU ran extremely well in Japan for 2 years before they added anything remotely challenging, then they release GAM (or whatever it was called)

The game is fine as is, is not even close to broken, but could use more pleasing features for the advanced player base. As for me, I enjoy the game for what it is, I have other games to fill the gaps PSO2 leaves as PSO2 fills gaps no other game can.
I might as well note that according to datamining there appears to be something called "Advanced Quests", dunno what they are, but it's likely that they're for high level players.

[FacelessRed]

Hi, Video gamer here. I generally like to play a game because it's f un. I set myself challanges and try to accomplish things. I don't get too hung up on loot and codes, I just try to level quickly and enjoy myself.

Some people ask "well, what's the point?" Well.. It's to have fun. If you aren't having fun, then maybe PSO2 isn't for you. Good luck out there!

[Enforcer MKV]

Hi, Video gamer here. I generally like to play a game because it's f un. I set myself challanges and try to accomplish things. I don't get too hung up on loot and codes, I just try to level quickly and enjoy myself.

Some people ask "well, what's the point?" Well.. It's to have fun. If you aren't having fun, then maybe PSO2 isn't for you. Good luck out there!

...*slow clap*

[NoiseHERO]

Hi, Video gamer here. I generally like to play a game because it's f un. I set myself challanges and try to accomplish things. I don't get too hung up on loot and codes, I just try to level quickly and enjoy myself.

Some people ask "well, what's the point?" Well.. It's to have fun. If you aren't having fun, then maybe PSO2 isn't for you. Good luck out there!

It's a very contradicting process of, being a fan of the series, the actual core gameplay being fun, having friends that play the game vs how terrible it feels when it takes literally months(proven by anyone that doesn't have superman luck) to find a weapon, or 15 mil to grind a weapon those of which that were part of the goals you set to keep yourself playing the game with a sense of direction and accomplishment as well as getting something cool looking that fits the theme you're going with your character.

You slowly get more and more bitter untill the only thing keeping you playing is your friends. and THEN, what you suggested. NOT PLAYING the game anymore actually DOES occur in the slowest most painful way possible. Including the part where the game could EASILY be made better if it weren't for flaws.

Things a good game should obviously be working to remove so no you can't just say, the game is not for you, otherwise they wouldn't be flaws. Unless you're a masochist.

You know... The game is not for you because the game is bad = the game is only for masochists. BUT IT DOESN'T HAVE TO BE, AND I DON'T THINK IT WAS SUPPOSED TO BE, or we're not supposed to THINK it was supposed to be... for masochists that is.





Anyway I'm sure no matter what you want to say to defend SEGA, the point is the players > SEGA, and I'm sure everyone could agree on at LEAST that list that joozek made. Which is pretty much common wants that everyone that's suffered through this game's late content has thought about.

[CelestialBlade]

You know why that list will never happen?

The Japanese like the game being as easy as it is. Or at least that seems to be the case because every complaint made to make the game easier has come out of the JP playerbase. It's a very good list, but I can assure you it's not the direction the game will ever go in. Sega's target audience doesn't want it.

We all have desires for the "perfect online game" and with as close as PSO2 can be to it for me in many regards, all the flaws become that much more infuriating for that reason. But this will never change and this is why this game won't do well in the US or UK. I just try to enjoy it for what it is.

[NoiseHERO]

You know why that list will never happen?

The Japanese like the game being as easy as it is. Or at least that seems to be the case because every complaint made to make the game easier has come out of the JP playerbase. It's a very good list, but I can assure you it's not the direction the game will ever go in. Sega's target audience doesn't want it.

We all have desires for the "perfect online game" and with as close as PSO2 can be to it for me in many regards, all the flaws become that much more infuriating for that reason. But this will never change and this is why this game won't do well in the US or UK. I just try to enjoy it for what it is.

I can enjoy what's left to enjoy, how long that'll last I dunno.

But I don't think I can enjoy it for what it fully is.

[gigawuts]

Sorry eharima I missed that. 1 in 10 pages, impressive

Anyway you guys all have a point. Why improve the game to broaden the market that it would appeal to in an easy, feasible, amicable fashion? Why make rares more utility-oriented, and let players find them more easily so that they're able to do new things more frequently with new tools, keeping gameplay fresh and extending interest in the game? Why make grinding easier so players can access multiple items of the same category for similar costs? Why would you ever refer to a past game's successes?

The game is fine. If the RNG has burned your wallet repeatedly, maybe you just shouldn't be so unlucky. The game isn't meant for people as unlucky as you.

[Blastifyys]

I'm not gonna sit here and say PSO2 doesn't need more varied content and more to do, but at the same time...find me any MMO that doesn't get repetitive if you play it every day. Phantasy Star online games have always been casual action-RPG grinders, they're games you'll probably need a break from after a while but you'll probably come back to it over and over.

It's never going to change as long as it keeps doing as well as it is in Japan. Sega could care less about the rest of the world at this point.
You Tell'Em

[Noblewine]

Once the game comes out I can deal with repetitiveness. I just hope the item mall doesn't kill the fun factor when it comes to trying to upgrade my gear or being able to survive when I'm soloing or in a party. I was playing a game called Soul Captor and it has a item mall. It killed the population shortly after it was added so I hope the same thing doesn't happen to pso2.

[Kamal]

Go play any MMO that isn't repetitive / shallow and let me know how long it lasts. First problem is finding one, the other is trying to stay longer then a month because you run out of interest / content. PSO2 Does hold up in originality through its world / combat, I've yet to find another MMO that can put combat together like PSO2 where there are completely different play styles.

Shallow it may be, but it works ^.^

damn right, most other games have the same maps u gotta play over and over, at least on pso 2 its changing so nothing stays the same and feels like new again, well almost

If you truly want something none repetitive then try EverQuest 2 free to play though the game is fun its kinda boring without much players and its limited free roaming unless you pay monthly membership

[Nicktendonick]

Do you think people are going to try to create their own levels?

Lots of games have PC modding, including MMOs. I remember someone mentioning that before along with PSO2.

[Mike]

Do you think people are going to try to create their own levels?

Lots of games have PC modding, including MMOs. I remember someone mentioning that before along with PSO2.
There is no modding in PSO2.

[Seany1990]

Do you think people are going to try to create their own levels?

Lots of games have PC modding, including MMOs. I remember someone mentioning that before along with PSO2.

Short answer: no

[Nicktendonick]

Aw, I'm disappointed.

*shrugs*
Oh well.