What is the most optimal party class set up?

[ShinMaruku]

I am wagering somethign witha fighter and any sumbclass with perhaps a techer and a gunner/slash range and perhaps a hunter who is always a monster's face.

[Rien]

This depends entirely on what you're running.

[ShinMaruku]

True but some set ups would do better than others. all things being equal due to design.

[Seravi Edalborez]

Ideally (for basically anything): GU/RA, FI/whatever, FO/whatever, whatever/whatever.

[ShinMaruku]

One thing I will give this game, some of these classes really work well together. Sega fixes something and cranks up some mechanics we can gt a real treat.
(This and Ter killed wow for me :E)

[Coatl]

I think an RA is pretty necessary.

[UnLucky]

One large target: GU/RA x12
Many small targets: FO/FI x12
Dancing in the lobby: everyone else

[ShinMaruku]

One large target: GU/RA x12
Many small targets: FO/FI x12
Dancing in the lobby: everyone else

And the Allah-uh Akbar party?

[Z-0]

The only time party composition actually means anything is for the TA quests, as everything else is entirely random and you can't really have an efficient setup outside of what Seravi posted (GU/RA for your WB for the bosses, FI for damage while that WB is up (FI with WB is far stronger than GU/RA) and a FO to clear the spawns quickly. Fourth doesn't really matter).

However, for the TA quests themselves:

Naberius: FI/HU, RA/FI, FO/FI, FO/FI
Lilipa: FI/HU, RA/FI, FO/FI, FO/FI
Amduscia: FI/HU, FI/HU, GU/RA, FO/FI (it's good if the GU/RA learns how to triple dash for travel speed)

Naberius II looks like a boss rush quest of sorts, so I feel the most efficient setup could be FI/HU x2 with 2 classes with RA in them, but it depends how the quest actually turns out when it's released later on.

[Rien]

Best Falz Elder 4-man team:

2x RA (for weakbullets), 2x FO (for shocks)

[Shiyo]

4x gunner, no reason to play any other class when you can kill anything in 3 seconds with WB + chain trigger.

[ShinMaruku]

Forces can 1 shot everything but bosses and 1 shot 5 or more. :E

[gigawuts]

1+ force or techer (main)
1+ ranger (main or sub, for WB on bosses)
2 whatever anyone wants to play

^ fun time setup

[Z-0]

RA/FI = new GU/RA

learn to use homing emission

watch wonders happen

doesn't work on everything, but if something has at least 5 things you can target, RA/FI can kill really, really fast. (VH Quartz killed in 38s, all parts broken, using just a Tigredor (not even Lambda) (http://www.nicovideo.jp/watch/sm19858599) - VH Snow Banthers in 46s (http://www.nicovideo.jp/watch/sm19867908) - VH Vol in 41s, all parts broken (http://www.nicovideo.jp/watch/sm19857950))

[gigawuts]

...HE explodes right out of the barrel? I figured it was like samegid.

Oh, this is getting nerfed, and I am using this.

[SociableTyrannosaur]

Sweet mother of fakis xD

That's awesome and needs to be abused.


1+ force or techer (main)
1+ ranger (main or sub, for WB on bosses)
2 whatever anyone wants to play

^ fun time setup

Yeah I duo with a friend. We run Ra/Gu(or Gu/Ra) and Fo/Te(or Te/Fo) If he plays one I play the other. Everything usually evaporates as it spawns. Even bosses die fast. Though not that ridiculous homing emission fast. That may need to change. lol

[ShinMaruku]

If buffs lasted 3 or so mins I wonder how the make up would be....

[UnLucky]

If buffs lasted 10-30m, then you'd take one FO/TE and the rest Gunners and Fighters. Possibly switching the Techer tree out for Fighter in the campship or telepipe out before the boss/periodically in an MPA.

But if they stay as they are, it's not worth bringing the Techer along in the first place

[ShinMaruku]

Personally 8-10 mins would make those buffs worth it or there needs to be a better way to buff than just casting them. (DFO has some things like that)

[gigawuts]

More like if shifta crit added bonus damage to crits instead of boosting crit rates. Then a shifta specced techer would be a staple of every group.

[ShinMaruku]

I wanted shifta to have a magic festival effect on damage as well as a longer duration to the buffs. I think a straight noticeable damage buff would be better than what we got.

[UnLucky]

If S/D Advances gave 5-25s longer duration per tick, 10-100% wider radius, or the effects straight up doubled and the first two as separate skills but across all support spells, maybe I'd consider Techer.

Shifta Critical should just be 1-10% increased damage for everyone. It'd change support from "well I guess I don't mind having it" to "buffs plx." Even still it wouldn't even be that great since everyone has to stand in a tight circle the entire time it ticks away and it only lasts a minute.

And while I'm at it, Territory burst should either be passive and do the +10-100% radius, be +100% out of the gate and last much longer as you level it up (eventually able to be kept up indefinitely), or be +300% or auto target the entire MPA (for not Zondeel) but keep the terrible cd/dur (maybe make it a 1SP skill in that last case).

As it is, there is no place for a Techer in a 4 man unless you seriously need the Deband Cut (your team sucks) or that 50% extra reach on Zondeel every so often is make or break (I really doubt this). And in a full MPA, you are NOT going to keep Shifta on every single person at all times while also doing your job as that 12th spot that could easily be filled by a more dedicated damage dealer.

[ShinMaruku]

Really though there should be someting set into the game that has the same function of a MPA. Perhaps put some objectives for multipe parties.
But yes a Techer is pointless in a MPA.
The idea behind them was something but since they made buffs 30 secs at most and mainly weak sauce means they fucked them.

[SociableTyrannosaur]

More like if shifta crit added bonus damage to crits instead of boosting crit rates. Then a shifta specced techer would be a staple of every group.

Or just did the shifta equivalent to deband cut =/

[Shiyo]

RA/FI = new GU/RA

learn to use homing emission

watch wonders happen

doesn't work on everything, but if something has at least 5 things you can target, RA/FI can kill really, really fast. (VH Quartz killed in 38s, all parts broken, using just a Tigredor (not even Lambda) (http://www.nicovideo.jp/watch/sm19858599) - VH Snow Banthers in 46s (http://www.nicovideo.jp/watch/sm19867908) - VH Vol in 41s, all parts broken (http://www.nicovideo.jp/watch/sm19857950))
Well, weak bullet needs to not work on bosses. It's 0 fun for the person using it, and 0 fun for the people benefiting from it. It makes any fun bosses into 30 second DPS spams turning them into no challenge at all. It's an incredibly dumb ability and the only actual complaint I have about this games combat.

[gigawuts]

No, rangers just need to not benefit from WB as much as other classes. 3x damage on top of both weak hit advances is silly strong, and throw chain trigger into that too for fun.

Weak bullet is fine in small groups.

MPA's will never be balanced.

[Shiyo]

My gunner friend makes everything negative fun just because she can kill any boss in ~15 seconds. She makes the game not fun at all for me, and this is in a duo/trio setting on VH.

[gigawuts]

Then don't play with her.

[Seravi Edalborez]

I fail to see how making the monotonous killing of enemies with too much HP significantly faster is a bad thing or makes others' experiences un-fun. But I'm part of the problem, I guess.

If you feel inferior, improve yourself.

[Shiyo]

I play the game to kill things, if things are dying instantly, I don't get to play my character, the fights are unfun, the fights are unchallenging. I'm sorry if you only play to collect loot and get no fun or satisfaction from actually fighting things in action based combat. I actually enjoy longer battles and having to try, actually dodge, and experience the bosses mechanics, instead of rolling my face across the keyboard and watching them die in 30 seconds with 0 effort.

I don't feel "inferior" because someone can press one button and make me do triple damage to weak points, and I won't stop playing with my friend because they're fun to talk to, just the actually playing the game with them isn't fun because weak bullet and, chain trigger, and elder rebellion exists.

[gigawuts]

Then ask her to not use weak bullet, or gunner.

...This isn't a thread about what classes should be, just what classes are.

[Shiyo]

It's a thread about no other class mattering except gunner/ranger because there's zero point in playing anything else atm. The sega JP forums have tons of complaints about GU being OP so.. ;p

[gigawuts]

See shin?

[ShinMaruku]

It's a thread about no other class mattering except gunner/ranger because there's zero point in playing anything else atm. The sega JP forums have tons of complaints about GU being OP so.. ;p

Official forums are full of free people. :E

[Z-0]

sure,

no other class matters

i would like to see 4x gu/ra beat the 2:51 vh nab, please (hint: it's not possible). or the 4:43 lilipa or 5:57 amduscia.

[Seravi Edalborez]

sure,

no other class matters

i would like to see 4x gu/ra beat the 2:51 vh nab, please (hint: it's not possible). or the 4:43 lilipa or 5:57 amduscia.

nerf force, too op omg

(At least I'm assuming FO/FI or something here)

[Z-0]

Depends. 2x FO/FI is mandatory for Lilipa and Naberius, although I'd say just one is far better for Amduscia.

Still debating whether FI/HU is useful for Nab/Lilipa anymore. 4:43 Lilipa was done with RA/FI x2 and FO/FI x2 (look at all those GU/RAs). Definitely should be taken for Amduscia imo because of enemies like Wondas.

Although at this point I'm mostly interested in Nab II. B> Tomorrow.

EDIT: But honestly though, people always complain about class balance in this game, but I don't really see the problems (except with techer), as everything is broken as each other providing you know how to play them. All classes are used in TAs which must mean something, right? maybe not because ta is evil i tell you

[Rob2003ert]

Bringing up TA is an incredibly silly argument against GU/RA being grossly overpowered at what it does. Everyone subs FI not because it's the best, but because it lets them run faster. There's no doubt such a set up is ideal for TA, but it's very rarely considered outside of that for reasons anyone can see. It's obvious from your posts that TA is the only part of the game you have any appreciation for, but using it as a basis for how "balanced" this game is is laughable. What's more laughable though is why anyone actually gives a shit about balance though. This isn't a competitive game by any stretch of the imagination, TA and Interrupt Rankings (do these even happen anymore? lol) are the only thing even close and even those are a joke. Who cares if a GU/RA can kill a boss a little faster than my FI/HU? I can solo anything this game throws at me on any class (barring Darker's Nest, I'd be impressed to see a HU or FI solo this), as long as I'm having fun that's all that should matter. Seems most people have lost sight of that though. Kind of sad, but I suppose it's their loss.

[Z-0]

While GU/RA is "overpowered" at what it does, what I'm trying to do is bring up the point that other classes aren't suddenly "outclassed" or "useless", because they can do things, even outside of Time Attack.

I play pretty much everything in all modes, and GU/RAs aren't better just because they're a GU/RA. As demonstrated earlier, a RA/FI can kill many bosses just as fast, and they have much better crowd control potential than GU/RA simply because of the extra power granted to them due to better launches, and also extra power from their sub class. Classes such as HU/FI and FI/HU also have many situtations (although not in 12-player MPAs) where they are better than a GU/RA or RA/FI, because PAs such as Sonic Arrow can rip through mobs faster than another class would be able to kill the entire spawn, as PAs such as Cluster Bullet and Divine Launcher only have certain limited AoE which Sonic Arrow can beat, while the melee classes also attack faster.

That also being said, FI/HU has better boss killing potential for certain bosses. I'm pretty sure everyone's seen the Hard-difficulty 38s Quartz Dragon kill (and could possible be faster now if done on VH considering subs and certain gear), and the fastest Zeshrayda kill I've seen was done by a FI/HU, and GU/RA is close, but not quite there.

GU/RA's "brokenness" is very overrated is what I'm attempting to point out. While they have the tools to do everything, so does FI/HU, and FO/TE or FO/FI can also come very close providing they know what they're doing. RA mains are also better in a lot of situations.

Right now, I like to think of GU/RA as the "easy" class, since that's pretty much what they are.

As an add, FI is not required for fast travelling, as the triple dash technique is almost as fast and can be done on all classes.

[Rob2003ert]

That I can agree to, and now you've got me curious on this Zeshy kill. Happen to have a link (assuming it's a video)? I can't imagine a FI/HU beating out GU/RA or FO/FI so it's surprising to hear.

[ShinMaruku]

Fi/Hu has better damage multipliers I would assume and their skills with gears can put out some outrageous damage in a constant pulse I would assume.

[Shiyo]

I honestly don't care that a GU/RA can kill things faster than me, I only care that weak bullet exists and works on bosses. It makes almost every boss fight a 30 second snorefest, it should not work on bosses. I don't like killing bosses too fast, I actually like to play the game.

I voted for "Skilled players of any class trumps what make up you have" because all classes are equally viable and all work perfectly fine and nothing in this game is actually difficult enough to require some insane group make up, plus I don't really think classes have THAT much synergy to require it, or specialize THAT much in what they do. They all seem pretty well rounded and versatile.

Also, TA arguments are beyond retarded and there's zero point in bringing them up considering I've been duoing VH ones since level ~40 with another level ~40 all within 15 mins.

However, I will never change my mind about GU/RA being the only class that anyone should play(unless they like having fun!), since it's obviously the strongest class in the game, and one of , if not the easiest to play. That doesn't mean that you can't do and beat everything in the game as any class though, just that GU/RA(mainly weak bullet, elder rebellion and chain trigger) and is beyond overpowered.

[The Walrus]

Only thing GU/RA is good for is killing bosses. So OP :O

[Railkune]

All I know is, FI/HU seems like the way to go for me. I won't say anything negative about the other classes because there is nothing negative to say, however, if the other two class branches are too easy then I just won't play them. I need some form of challenge when playing a game like this, and being able to bound around while fluidly ripping apart the enemy out of their reach is just too much, IMO. Personally, I like having to confront the opponent up close and tearing them down bit by bit while attempting to guard/dodge and retaliate. It's a sort of rush I FEEL you wouldn't get at a distance just holding down the shooting key. Anyways, I couldn't really say which team set up would be better as I'm still a newbie at the game myself.

[gigawuts]

I won't say anything negative about the other classes because there is nothing negative to say

Take notes, PSOW.

[UnLucky]

Also, TA arguments are beyond retarded and there's zero point in bringing them up considering I've been duoing VH ones since level ~40 with another level ~40 all within 15 mins.
The entire premise here is about what's optimal, not what's "good enough" or "fun" or something equally silly. So there's nothing that requires min/maxing and you can beat all the content in 6* gear with minimal affixing as any class. Everyone knows that, you'd have to be retarded not to see it. But getting stronger and killing faster is a reasonable goal to work towards, so let them have their fun.


Take notes, PSOW.
Oh, I've got lots of negative things to say.

[ShinMaruku]

My advice to psow is "Get back they will kill you, they will kill you" http://www.hotbloodedgaming.com/forum/images/smilies/Kappa.png

[angrysquid]

Also, TA arguments are beyond retarded and there's zero point in bringing them up considering I've been duoing VH ones since level ~40 with another level ~40 all within 15 mins.

However, I will never change my mind about GU/RA being the only class that anyone should play(unless they like having fun!), since it's obviously the strongest class in the game, and one of , if not the easiest to play. That doesn't mean that you can't do and beat everything in the game as any class though, just that GU/RA(mainly weak bullet, elder rebellion and chain trigger) and is beyond overpowered.


Sooo, comparing times for killing a boss with certain classes is valid while comparing TA clearing times with certain classes is "beyond stupid"?

[Shiyo]

Yes, because TA's don't matter, someone killing a boss in 30 seconds instead of 5-10 minutes is huge for all current content and future content. Darker's den is 400x easier with 1-2 GU/RA's just because they make 3 of the boss fights take 30 seconds instead of 5-10 mins. Still beatable without them though, but the time saved on bosses by a GU/RA far outweighs any advantage a FO or FI or HU has from killing trash faster.

[ShinMaruku]

I tend to like speed runs so whatever combination that can do the job quickest is always good.

[Soultrigger]

That I can agree to, and now you've got me curious on this Zeshy kill. Happen to have a link (assuming it's a video)? I can't imagine a FI/HU beating out GU/RA or FO/FI so it's surprising to hear.

Fastest Fighter video I could find was this (http://www.nicovideo.jp/watch/sm19842778) (FI, 1:09). But that time pales in comparison to GuRa, and it was posted this month, so I'm guessing he's referring to something else.