I'm mad at SOA already

[PSW4L]

As an english player of PSU I was sad to see it go, but I was at least hopeful to hear they were making PSO2. I would have liked to be able to play PSU up until the release of the new game, but as usual the English players were treated far worse by Sega than the Japanese players.

However, I still had hope for this game thinking that with a new game came the opportunity for new and (hopefully) better service. So I've been waiting this whole time with the only information being givin was that the game would come out in 2013. I've patiently waited and now it's here and there's absolutely no new updates? Even something as vague as it will come out in early Spring or something would be better than this.

And I don't understand why I'm waiting this long anyway when apparently translating the game doesn't take that long since fans have already done it on their own. And I thought, (correct me if I'm wrong) that everyone around the world would be playing the same game together. So what else is there to do but translate it?

tl;dr, I feel like I'm being treated badly and over-looked by Sega (yet again) and this game isn't even out yet.

[CelestialBlade]

SoA sucks at marketing, that's pretty clear, but they're probably getting jack-shit support from SoJ too. There's a decent chance SoA knows about as much as we do at this point. Given how much SoA has been slashed recently, they probably only have a very small team assigned to the US PSO2 rollout.

In my opinion the majority of the blame probably should lie with SoJ.

[Ezodagrom]

There's a decent chance SoA knows about as much as we do at this point.
They have to know more than us though, since they're the ones handling the translation, and planning the changes to the cash shop, things like that.
There's also the possibility that the decision to not give news about the game could come from SoA's management too, back when SoJ had control of the Facebook page, they did try to address english speaking players there by posting occasionally in (broken) english. ^^;

[Runehades]

I've been supporting Sega since I was a kid. While everyone had an Nes I was that kid with a Master System. I played PS1, P2-P4 on Genesis, pre ordered the Saturn, Dreamcast. Played all PSO games on DC, Xbox and GCN. Hell I even got the crappy card game. Not to mention PSU for ps2 and PC. I also got the portables psp1, psp2 and PS0. That's not even mentioning the long ass list of other Sega games I've purchased over the years. 26 years of support for this company but I'm done. Square Enix and Blizzard don't mind taking my money. If FF14 realm reborn works as great as it looks well they'll be getting my support. Take some notes from Square Enix, they allow players from Japan and NA to coexist and it has worked. Blizzard has simultaneous game releases worldwide and doesn't keep it's overseas fans waiting. These companies among others make Sega look like shit and it makes me even wonder why I was so patient with them..

[BWS-1]

Apparently what is keeping them busy is converting the micro-transaction aspect into the Western market rather than translation itself. When you think about it, it makes sense that this alone be taking them a fair share of time over translation since we honestly couldn't have PSO2 in its current state with the current ''prices'' (as much as many here are perfectly fine as they are since they are operating through the Japanese version of the game).

[terrell707]

Isn't the AC Scratch technically illegal here for people younger than 18?

[Darki]

What exactly is time-consuming of that process? I understand that it might not be something to be done in a single manager meeting, but... over 4 months for that? o_O

[The Walrus]

There's translation, voice acting, server testing, working out a solution to the scratch, bug testing, marketing (lol) and other stuff they need to do.

[johnwolf]

Isn't the AC Scratch technically illegal here for people younger than 18?

not realy, Starwars the old republic has a gambling tab in the cartel market, And let's not forget about pokemon (though it dosn't use REAL money it's still gambling). i'm sure that AC Scratch is just fine.

[Z-0]

Pokemon Platinum had the game corner removed in EU countries due to gambling laws.

So... yeah.

[Ezodagrom]

There's translation, voice acting, server testing, working out a solution to the scratch, bug testing, marketing (lol) and other stuff they need to do.
That is if they actually do any voice acting, if there's english voice acting, I wouldn't be surprised if they only translated the bigger scenes and left most scenes silent (like they did in PSPo2).

[johnwolf]

Pokemon Platinum had the game corner removed in EU countries due to gambling laws.

So... yeah.

ah, England and your intolorable laws. i just wish America was goin down that direction. i can see us doin that in maby 3-5 years.

[Shadowth117]

ah, England and your intolorable laws. i just wish America was goin down that direction. i can see us doin that in maby 3-5 years.

You wish we were going towards more restrictions? Man... you would hate my political opinions...

I don't know, SOA is good at advertising (god knows everyone and their mother has seen Sonic the Hedgehog around), but they don't focus on any of their smaller games and give them a chance to get bigger. Its pretty stupid honestly...

[gigawuts]

Sega has a plethora of titles they could be making small or even big games for. Anyone heard from Billy Hatcher lately? No? That was apparently a legitimately good game, too. They mucked up the advertising, nobody knew about it, nobody bought it, "well I guess Billy Hatcher doesn't sell well so let's not make a sequel you guys."

SoA is fucking inept no matter how much of the blame should go to SoJ for PS disasters. At the end of the day, SoA is still fucking terrible at doing the things it's supposed to.

[Kent]

Translation is only a very small part of the process of making a game come over from Japan to North America. In most cases, a simple translation job can see a game released in only a few months (including the time it takes to record voice acting, print copies, design new box art, etc. when applicable, and of course, testing things to make sure their changes didn't break anything).

Something like PSO2 is a different beast though. In addition to translation and localization, they also have to set up the entirety of the game's service over here, since we're likely going to be segregated server-wise from the already-existing service.

So they have to purchase or rent server hardware, establish licenses for maintenance and other upkeep costs (power, internet, etc. - but this can vary greatly depending on what type of avenue they pursue for it), get their billing systems set up, establish customer service (including GM staff and such), train employees, and do rigorous amounts of testing every step of the way through every single process, procedure and individual aspect of the service.

And then, of course, they have to lick the boots of their precious masters at Sega of Japan and hope they don't get shafted like they have been on previous ventures within the Phantasy Star series (post-PSOv1).

Granted, all of this could be done and the service up and running here by now, if they were on the ball with a worldwide release or gave the OK to it around the launch of the Japanese version, but they've only really given the indication that they used the Japanese version to test the waters and gauge foreign demand, so actual commencement of the production of international versions was, of course, late to the party.

I don't know, SOA is good at advertising (god knows everyone and their mother has seen Sonic the Hedgehog around), but they don't focus on any of their smaller games and give them a chance to get bigger. Its pretty stupid honestly...
Well, specifically, they're good at advertising things with Sonic on the front of it. Don't expect to hear anything about practically any other game they release in advertising outlets, particularly outside of Japan.

[Vintasticvin]

Translation is only a very small part of the process of making a game come over from Japan to North America. In most cases, a simple translation job can see a game released in only a few months (including the time it takes to record voice acting, print copies, design new box art, etc. when applicable, and of course, testing things to make sure their changes didn't break anything).

Something like PSO2 is a different beast though. In addition to translation and localization, they also have to set up the entirety of the game's service over here, since we're likely going to be segregated server-wise from the already-existing service.

So they have to purchase or rent server hardware, establish licenses for maintenance and other upkeep costs (power, internet, etc. - but this can vary greatly depending on what type of avenue they pursue for it), get their billing systems set up, establish customer service (including GM staff and such), train employees, and do rigorous amounts of testing every step of the way through every single process, procedure and individual aspect of the service.

And then, of course, they have to lick the boots of their precious masters at Sega of Japan and hope they don't get shafted like they have been on previous ventures within the Phantasy Star series (post-PSOv1).

Granted, all of this could be done and the service up and running here by now, if they were on the ball with a worldwide release or gave the OK to it around the launch of the Japanese version, but they've only really given the indication that they used the Japanese version to test the waters and gauge foreign demand, so actual commencement of the production of international versions was, of course, late to the party.

Well, specifically, they're good at advertising things with Sonic on the front of it. Don't expect to hear anything about practically any other game they release in advertising outlets, particularly outside of Japan.


Too long didn't stop reading it :D Such well made and valid points the ragers can't see. And yes if it ain't the blue blur the product doesn't get much publicity.

[blace]

Seeing as how they have shown any kind of advertising for their recent game, Anarchy Reigns, it doesn't take much to know where the cash cow is at. Especially, how they take every chance to milk Sonic for the Olympics.

[Vintasticvin]

Seeing as how they have shown any kind of advertising for their recent game, Anarchy Reigns, it doesn't take much to know where the cash cow is at. Especially, how they take every chance to milk Sonic for the Olympics.

Okay so I was sitting on the crapper and as I doing my business it came to me why Sega may operate the way it does now bear with me for a moment as I come off stupid or as the cool internet kids say "nastalgia fagging it up" if anyone remembers back in the days Sega was considered as the bad boy of gaming, they were the shady guy in the alley all covered up with their identity covered up that sold things that shouldn't be sold. Prime example of what I mean.

A young man that appears to be in their late twenties stealthly sneaks around in search of something or... Someone. After a long tiring search the young soon stumbles upon a figure sporting a heavg trench coat, a dark brown businessman hat and asks the mysterious persob "Are you Sega?" The man asks then the person takes a deep breath of their cigarette and puffs out a cloud of smoke the in a deep mysterious tone replies "Yeah, I'm Sega whacha want kid?" "I heard you have a new game out thats really cool that has everyone talking about it. You got it?" Sega the looks up at the potential customer and lets out a snarky giggle Maybe, for the right price heh heh hehhh" The young man pulls out a wad of cash then Sega reaches in its coat digging through it and slowly slides the game into the persons hand as the person does the same withs his money. " Enjoy the game kid if ya like it tell your friends and send them my way."

[Follisimo]

SOJ is the main head of SEGA so they are to blame for this. Look at all the Korean MMOs and such that come over to the US/EU later and fall behind in updates 6months to a year. They don't get any real support and if the mass majority wanted a change in the game they wouldn't care because the US/EU branches are merely distributing pawns who do as they are told and hope for the best.

[ArcaneTechs]

they just spent 25mill buying another company from THQ, whats makes you think they have cash to make PSO2 for the US/EU still?

[Syklo]

All this bananza is leading me to think they're wasting their time adding dr. robotnik to vardha.

And adding in planet wisp.

What am i thinking.

[ArcaneTechs]

All this bananza is leading me to think they're wasting their time adding dr. robotnik to vardha.

And adding in planet wisp.

What am i thinking.

Dr Robotnik controlling Big Vardha? a must want indeed. after that fight is battle phase 2 with the DeathEgg

[The Walrus]

Come on guys we all know the Rappies are behind everything

[Syklo]

Dr Robotnik controlling Big Vardha? a must want indeed. after that fight is battle phase 2 with the DeathEgg
Change over!
Code: Softboil!

Lol moved to dead horse society.

[Kent]

they just spent 25mill buying another company from THQ, whats makes you think they have cash to make PSO2 for the US/EU still?
The only reason they would possibly make a purchase of that magnitude would be if they both believed they would profit from it, as well as safely make the investment.

It should also be noted that Sega made $512 million in the 2011 fiscal year. A $25 million expenditure, while still sizable, is nowhere near enough to cripple the company and prevent them from launching a title like PSO2 internationally.

[Kion]

This is pretty much my thoughts exactly while working on the patch. Right now I've been working for about 8-9 hours a day for the last several days at a really hard pace to try and get this content out as soon as possible.

For translation there are about 2 files both with 11,000 lines of text in them. The one currently used for the english patch which has most of the game's common text in it enemies, weapons, npc chat. Things like that. The file I'm working on has all of the npc story text, which is has the tutorials, client orders, story, message pack and things like that. Working on it at a normal work pace maybe 2-3 hours a day of actual work (like in a company) would probably take 3-4 month, maybe an extra month for editing and proof reading.

I'm also kind of a web programmer. For a web application, it's depends on what you're working on. But again depending on the time maybe 4 months to half a year with time for testing and things like that.

So what I pretty much means is
3-4 months: really motivated company who knows their shit
5-6 months: decent company they can make it happen
7-8 months: sub par company but still barely passing
9+ months: Sega :wacko:

Before anyone get's on my case about that, I'm being sarcastic. Mostly what I think SoA is failing to do is this case is communicate with their audience about what's going on. Sakai was on before the beta telling players what problems their team was facing, how they were going about them and how long they would likely take. And people had no problems cooperating.

After almost a year of being out, SoA has had pretty much zero press releases, zero responses to people on facebook, zero presence in these forums, zero tweets, and zero information divulged about how far they are along and how long they expect to take. What that tells me is that even if this game comes out, you have no idea how seriously they're going to take their jobs. That's why I've been working so hard for everyone to have another option to playing this game as to not get fucked over, and the fact that I've done this alone in the span of a week when SoA can't do shit over the course of a year? SoA needs to go fuck themselves.

[Seany1990]

The fault lies with all branches of Sega. Blaming just SoA is incredibly naive and unjustifiable.

[Polly]

After almost a year of being out, SoA has had pretty much zero press releases, zero responses to people on facebook, zero presence in these forums, zero tweets, and zero information divulged about how far they are along and how long they expect to take. What that tells me is that even if this game comes out, you have no idea how seriously they're going to take their jobs. That's why I've been working so hard for everyone to have another option to playing this game as to not get fucked over, and the fact that I've done this alone in the span of a week when SoA can't do shit over the course of a year? SoA needs to go fuck themselves.

This is a pretty dumb way of looking at it, and pretty childish. Especially given that all of Sakai's support and communication has been to and for his intended Japanese audience for a game that is being developed in and for consumption by their own country.

Sega of America's lack of communication, advertising, or promotion of any sort likely comes from the fact that they have probably next to nothing they CAN relate other than "We're translating stuff, guys!", either because they don't know much more OR because Sega of Japan hasn't given them proper clearance to speak about anything, or permission and funding to get word of PSO2's impending release out there. The only people that can say for sure are the people that are actually there working on the project, and in all likelihood they can't say much anyway.

Sega of Japan and Sega of America have had a long-standing rift that's persisted since the Genesis/Saturn eras and continues to affect the company as a whole today in terms of how it relates to the fans as well as their entire company. Both Sega of Japan and Sega of America need to grow the fuck up and get along, putting petty "rivalries" of the past behind them in order to actually feasibly appease both audiences.

[Ezodagrom]

This is a pretty dumb way of looking at it, and pretty childish. Especially given that all of Sakai's support and communication has been to and for his intended Japanese audience for a game that is being developed in and for consumption by their own country.

Sega of America's lack of communication, advertising, or promotion of any sort likely comes from the fact that they have probably next to nothing they CAN relate other than "We're translating stuff, guys!", either because they don't know much more OR because Sega of Japan hasn't given them proper clearance to speak about anything, or permission and funding to get word of PSO2's impending release out there. The only people that can say for sure are the people that are actually there working on the project, and in all likelihood they can't say much anyway.

Sega of Japan and Sega of America have had a long-standing rift that's persisted since the Genesis/Saturn eras and continues to affect the company as a whole today in terms of how it relates to the fans as well as their entire company. Both Sega of Japan and Sega of America need to grow the fuck up and get along, putting petty "rivalries" of the past behind them in order to actually feasibly appease both audiences.
There's plenty of things SoA could be posting in their blogs and gaming websites for advertising other than just "we're translating stuff".
They could do video trailers introducing the areas that will be available (like they did for Sonic 4 Episode 1), do trailers introducing the 3 types of gameplay, stuff like that.
There's also things that they should talk about eventually, like how the cash shop will work in the english version, if it'll have english voice acting and what voice actors they will use for different characters, how much content will be available at the beginning, if the english version will have any sort of public testing, and so on...

[Polly]

There's plenty of things SoA could be posting in their blogs and gaming websites for advertising other than just "we're translating stuff".
They could do video trailers introducing the areas that will be available (like they did for Sonic 4 Episode 1), do trailers introducing the 3 types of gameplay, stuff like that.
There's also things that they should talk about eventually, like how the cash shop will work in the english version, if it'll have english voice acting and what voice actors they will use for different characters, how much content will be available at the beginning, if the english version will have any sort of public testing, and so on...

They could, but the likely possibility is that Sega of Japan either isn't letting them or hasn't provided them with resources to produce such content. Content doesn't magically appear out of thin air. It requires resources and time, and if SoJ hasn't given SoA any, then their hands are tied to just doing the job they've been given.

[Ezodagrom]

They could, but the likely possibility is that Sega of Japan either isn't letting them or hasn't provided them with resources to produce such content. Content doesn't magically appear out of thin air. It requires resources and time, and if SoJ hasn't given SoA any, then their hands are tied to just doing the job they've been given.
And what if it isn't SoJ that is holding back content? What if it's SoA's marketing teams that are just plain awful (which they are).

This was posted by Edward a few weeks ago in the SEGA Blogs about PSO2:



First, just to clear things up, the only official information on here is from me. No one else affiliated with Sega has posted.
I know everyone is eager for more information. I don’t have any new info to post at this time — I promise we will as soon as we can. Please know I’m still checking your feedback and we do appreciate this input from the fan community.
@strikerhunter: I understand what you’re saying but please realize that Turbine (or any other community team) isn’t deciding to post that on their own. It is agreed upon from Production to Marketing to everyone else what information will be published, when. I don’t get to decide what info goes out when — if I did, I understand why you’d be angry at me. http://blogs.sega.com/wp-includes/images/smilies/icon_smile.gif But I am here to share with you what information we are able to make public.
Comment 240:
http://blogs.sega.com/2012/07/09/phantasy-star-online-2-is-coming-west/#comment-85713

[Seany1990]

And what if it isn't SoJ that is holding back content? What if it's SoA's marketing teams that are just plain awful (which they are).


You seem to be a bit deluded when it comes to SoJ. They aren't the shining beacon of light that you think they are.

[Ezodagrom]

You seem to be a bit deluded when it comes to SoJ. They aren't the shining beacon of light that you think they are.
And where did I say that I think that SoJ is a "shining beacon of light"?
I really don't believe that it's them that are holding back news, especially since so far they have actually posted more in (broken) english in the official facebook page than SoA representatives did once they took control of the page.
SoJ may be far from great, but at least they're alot better than SoA, they show that they care more about the franchise than SoA ever did.

[Kion]

Something to this effect i think would make a huge effect:



Hey guys, this is 3dw@rd from Sega. Phantasy Star Online 2 has been out for just over half a year now and has 3 million subscribers, we're currently working hard on localizing the game in the NA/EU. Region, currently we're aiming to start the alpha around April, but we're running into difficulties with the servers accessing the database and a text display problem on the client. We're working with the development team in Japan to get the problem solved as soon as possible. I'll try to give a update each month, so you know how our work is progressing. Thank you for your patience and we hope to bring Phantasy Star Online 2 to you to enjoy as soon as possible.


One way or another one main problem is definitely lack of communication to the fans and possibly between SoJ and SoA themselves. It hard to place blame, because we don't know the problem lies and that in and of itself may be the problem.

[Mike]

I prefer to think that Sega has mobilized a team of lawyers intent on finding the best way to legally make you buy things you don't want to when you want to purchase an item from the cash shop and this what is causing delays.

[Seany1990]

And where did I say that I think that SoJ is a "shining beacon of light"?
I really don't believe that it's them that are holding back news, especially since so far they have actually posted more in (broken) english in the official facebook page than SoA representatives did once they took control of the page.
SoJ may be far from great, but at least they're alot better than SoA, they show that they care more about the franchise than SoA ever did.

SoA have to answer to the execs in Tokyo. If you want to put the blame on somebody then it's most likely that SoJ are the ones responsible.

I've asked this question before and nobody has been able to answer it. If SoA are responsible for this farce then why are SoJ allowing it?

Apple wouldn't allow their representatives in London to pull the same stunts as that would ultimately lead to a decline in profits.

[biggkenny]

Maybe they aren't as close to being releasable as they'd have liked to be, they could have major issues with something that could take an unknown amount of time

[reptile7383]

Sure SoJ could probably help SoA out more but that would imply that SoA and SoJ worked well together (they don't have the best of histories). They are both most incompetent that somehow manage to pull it together to make the occasional gems. Expecting them both to be competent at the same time however is too much. Sega would probably be dead right now if they didn't make Sonic games all the time and SoA right now is cutting a lot. Theres no way the western version of PSO2 will be the same support as the JP version.