Braver Class Talk [Archive]

Zenobia

Jun 17, 2013, 10:05 AM

I'll update as they add more, also feel free to add tot he thread as much info as you can could really help us get a better understanding or grasp about it.

http://http://bumped.org/psublog/pso2-episode-2-teaser/

Alright so Bumped gave some good info on some of the capabilities of Katana and bow so far so good hoping we get more, but what got me more interested now is that it seems Katana auto gets a guard and just guard animation? It didn't say anything about getting it from the skill tree.

No more Rumors now

What we know so far about the weps.
[SPOILER-BOX]Katana:Can Guard and Guard-Counter Katanas Just Guards at Max Gear counters with increased damage and critical rates for a limited time. An aura surrounds the weapon.

All thx to Rien for this info

Katana PA's
Sakura Entou
Asagiri Rendan, Kanran Kikyou, Hien Tsubaki

Katana skill: "Katana Combat"-Description says using it allows the user to enjoy speedier action sequences.

The Katana’s “Snatch Step” skill lets you attack while evading.

Braver has a skill called “Snatch Step” that lets it perform an attack during the katana’s step animation. (Sounds similar to Hunter’s Step Attack)

Bullet Bow: Weak Stance increases damage to weak areas, reduces damage everywhere else.

Bullet Bow PA's
Gravity Point
Sharp Bomber, Torrential Arrow, Master Shoot
[/SPOILER-BOX]
When Episode 2 starts, they’re going to add new skills and distribute skill tree reset items.

So I guess Bullet Bow gets it's own type pf weak bullet, but for weak points? Wonder if this will make going RA/BRA even more Over Powered I can totally see this happening weak stance+WB+WHA lawdeh just thinking about that I don't even...it maybe could benefit as a main as well coupled with said class.

As far as Katana's go as with having max gear and just guarding rewards you with increased damage and critical hit rate for a limited time this coupled with HU/BRA would make some nice multipliers with Fury Stance e.t.c, but question still stands as to how long the duration is, im actually hoping it stays on long enough to make it worth while.

Courtesy of Maenera for this info from Aragjag

Datamined Skills
[SPOILER-BOX]New skills:
Braver (internal names only, no stats yet), organized by family:
BraverDexUp1, BraverDexUp2
BraverAtpStrikeUp1
BraverAtpFirearmUp1
Rare10Braver
BraverMag (note: who knows)
BraverStep, BraverStepAdvance, BraverStepAttack, BraverJustReversal, JustReversalBonus
SnatchStep
AverageStance, AverageStanceUp1, AverageStanceCritical, AverageChargeBonus
Combat, CombatJABonus1, CombatFinish
KatanaGear
WeakStance, WeakStanceUp1, WeakStanceCritical, WeakChargeBonus
ShortTime, ShortTimeUp1, ShortTimeBonus1[/SPOILER-BOX]

Braver Skills I found out about that are missing.
[SPOILER-BOX]Braver Convert
Braver Guard
Charge Attack Up
Critical Bonus
Victum
Victum Bomb[/SPOILER-BOX]

HIT0SHI

Jun 17, 2013, 10:20 AM

If Bullet Bow gets its own version of Weak Bullet, I wanna know if it stacks with Weak Bullet or if it would be a nice combo with Gunner with its Chain Trigger. And if it did for etheir one, it would be awesome to NOT be ristrictive like Ranger only allowing you to activate it using the rifle in comparison to Gunner.

As for Katana... I'm not sure if I'll even see a good combination other than a defensive play style once enemies come to close sense I'll mainly play distant. However, I use Launchers in CQC mostly with it's Crazy Smash PA and Rodeo Drive PA so there could be some posible sync with Katanas being offensive while focusing mostly on range or at least for me as a GU/RA.

gigawuts

Jun 17, 2013, 10:21 AM

Why would weak stance be restricted from katanas?

ShinMaruku

Jun 17, 2013, 11:14 AM

Sega logic.

jcart953

Jun 17, 2013, 12:39 PM

If Bullet Bow gets its own version of Weak Bullet, I wanna know if it stacks with Weak Bullet or if it would be a nice combo with Gunner with its Chain Trigger. And if it did for etheir one, it would be awesome to NOT be ristrictive like Ranger only allowing you to activate it using the rifle in comparison to Gunner.

Yeah that would be sweet, hopefully Braver allows for some other decent combos like gu/br. I really hope it isnt limited to just being more combos for the already op rangers and hunter subs.

On a side note that link says there going to adjust gunners flip o.O. Hopefully there not nerfing it in any way.

Melodys

Jun 17, 2013, 01:07 PM

Yeah that would be sweet, hopefully Braver allows for some other decent combos like gu/br. I really hope it isnt limited to just being more combos for the already op rangers and hunter subs.

On a side note that link says there going to adjust gunners flip o.O. Hopefully there not nerfing it in any way.

I'd imagine the Katana and Bow's skill trees are going to be on opposite sides once they are implemented. Hope that they would have decent multipliers to compete with Ra/Hu as well.

I think Gu's flip dodge has been nerfed very slightly very late last year before. You were able to stay and slowly climb in the air by doing flip x2+ normal attack and repeat the pattern which didn't require JA. Now, this is almost impossible/ too hard and time consuming to do that it's not worth it. Wonder how they are going to change it this time.

Gardios

Jun 17, 2013, 04:43 PM

Why would weak stance be restricted from katanas?

Chances are that Weak Stance is the blue bow icon in the trailer which would suggest bullet bow only. This also would be in line with SEGA's extensive design knowledge.

gigawuts

Jun 17, 2013, 05:02 PM

Chances are that Weak Stance is the blue bow icon in the trailer which would suggest bullet bow only. This also would be in line with SEGA's extensive design knowledge.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UxzCzU5Dm7c

Speculation based on inference and the fact that this is Sega and F2P:

Unless braver's weapons are very powerful without need for insanely strong weapon spec skills (see: rod, talis, wand), or its skilltree offers skills that benefit both weapons to very noticeable degrees even when you're only trying to spec into one or the other (see: fury stance, fighter stances), I don't hold much hope for braver as anything but a skilltree cash grab. The tree will be tough to generalize in, but very effective when specced into one side - as a main.

Which means it could very easily be intentionally crazy powerful, very useful, and very effective - with one weapon half the time and the other weapon the other half of the time.

I'm expecting braver to be the most beneficial as a main, as opposed to a sub. The active skills appear to be only useful for braver's weapons. Subbing would probably be a bit akin to subbing RA as anything other than GU, which is completely useless aside from poking things with weak bullet from time to time and maybe seeing traps.

But braver's sub options will probably be fantastic. 2x damage to both of its weapons from HU? Hell yes. Weak Hit Advance from RA, plus weak bullet (maybe even on your bow in addition to this new skill too, if they haven't ruled that out yet)? Aw yeah. Gunner's ZRA seems designed for some of those bow PA's. About the only things that won't mix nicely are FO and TE, which makes sense since braver is a split striking/ranged class - but FO and TE still offer the traditional healing and buffing stuff most people sub them for anyway.

The problem here is Sega's made it pretty clear they have no idea how to properly balance a split damagetype class - they mucked it up on TE, they missed a chance to do it right on GU, and HU has stat bonuses for ranged despite only having a gunslash to use it on without subbing/being subbed. They apply the exact same bonuses to split stats in equal parts, which would all have been stacked onto one higher stat on a non-split class for higher total gains. Really, they're terrible at split design. But, they could just as well pull a HU and make it ridiculously OP and in turn crazy fun to use.

Either way, as a metagame aficionado, I'm looking forward to having something else in the mix.

UnLucky

Jun 17, 2013, 08:12 PM

I want to see the numbers, that's all I care about.

And whether Katanas are worthless without counters. I can imagine it being like Fury Stance's bonuses for 5s after a counter, so you're just waiting around hoping the docile environment will stop drifting away from you so you can be useful for once.

I also can't wait for 2x Charge Advance that boosts charged Ranged and Striking PAs but not Technics by 10%.

BlankM

Jun 17, 2013, 08:55 PM

Hoping to use Braver/Ranger with bullet bows to make use of that weak stance.

But yeah numbers are all that will matter since its SEGA and they could just royally over-emphasize specific intended uses/abilities only to have them be worthless damage-wise.

Alisha

Jun 17, 2013, 09:20 PM

Why would weak stance be restricted from katanas?

if sega wants you to specialize in katana or bow and not both.

gigawuts

Jun 17, 2013, 09:34 PM

That doesn't mean weak stance should be restricted, it just means other multipliers should be restricted.

If anything they ought to be PROMOTING melee hitting weak points for nicer gains, since right now you just make sure they're facing the right way and swing away (and that's assuming you even have fighter in the mix).

Z-0

Jun 17, 2013, 09:35 PM

Lol, imagine if the tree is split between Katana or Bow.

It's like a one weapon class instead of 2.

gigawuts

Jun 17, 2013, 09:37 PM

Imagine? I think everyone expects them to do exactly that.

Take HU tree - turn fury branch into katana branch (and remove ratk bonuses), turn tank branch into bow branch (with better multipliers than the katana branch).

Bam. My expectations for braver.

Alisha

Jun 18, 2013, 12:10 AM

i dont get whats so wrong about that,unless this community really hates the idea of specializing that much.

Coatl

Jun 18, 2013, 12:28 AM

Sort of defeats the purpose of the class being able to use two weapons.

UnLucky

Jun 18, 2013, 01:03 AM

Might as well have two new classes that each have only one new weapon

ShinMaruku

Jun 18, 2013, 01:28 AM

Well if the weapons with specialization scales well and holds it's own niche it would not be terrible but this is Sega expect a train wreck on the level of the xbone.

Nothing is fundamentally wrong with specializing IF it's done well. DFO did that well silvermoons when they picked their weapon and speced into is their skills changed with them. They both had their own strengths and weaknesses.

It could build class diversity but this is Sega. So no specialization unless they actually test is it and make it work. (This game needs public test server)

gigawuts

Jun 18, 2013, 06:57 AM

i dont get whats so wrong about that,unless this community really hates the idea of specializing that much.

Specialization is good when done properly. It will allow you to do other things to mediocre degrees, but not as effectively as your spec. In this game, however, specialization is usually more than doubled effectiveness, leaving everything else at essentially zero performance. FO handles specialization fairly well - if you don't spec in an element you merely lose out on 44% extra damage, while gaining 21%-33% in all elements (more with WHA for techer). But HU? You can't tank worth a god damn if you don't invest in tanking, and if you don't bump up fury stance your damage suffers pretty noticeably.

When it's to the exclusion of the other ability, it promotes picking one or the other. When you pick one or the other, at the expense of real money to pick both, most pick the best or most versatile one. When most players pick just one thing, that one thing gets the most attention if the company is bad.

Supporting evidence: Race & gender chosen for new costumes, class balance, etc.

BlankM

Jun 18, 2013, 11:02 AM

The reason I dislike the whole split thing, is because one way will probably be clearly better then the other. I want to spec for bows, but if their side of the tree straight up sucks that will be disappointing.

But weak stance looks promising. Though it continues the emphasis on BIG NUMBERS on weak spots.

Pillan

Jun 20, 2013, 08:53 AM

Well, there is still not enough information to say that specialization is really necessary. I would argue only half the classes actually have choices on the skill tree, while the others merely provide an illusion of choice for those who have not looked into the math. But I'll outline it below:

Hunter - an actual choice between offence and defense since they added the Flash Guards. Before they fixed the stances, I would argue defense was the only worthwhile route. But since no one dies in on hit unless they are significantly underleveled (and they just started allowing you to access areas underleveled), Fury becomes the only real choice.

Ranger - the only real option is to grab weak bullet and the weak hit advances. Since you are over there, you will end up getting the standing snipes. Jellen Shot was useful, but they reduced its power and created Deband Cut to add insult to injury. And we will not talk about traps.

Force - I will consider this a "half decision" as the only decision point is after acquiring the charge PP regen. At that point it becomes "stay the course with fire" or "make lightning cheaper." Ice is not a real choice.

Fighter - no choice at all, besides getting double saber gear by 16 or by 45.

Gunner - no choice at all, once you realize how weak the chain system actually is.

Techer - There is an actual choice between support and damage here. It is probably the one class where you do actually have to think about what you want to do.

So, I would say the odds are it will be less like Techer, since Techer only happened once. Most likely the left side of the tree will overshadow the right (as it does in most cases). And if bow and katana upgrades are split, the highest multipliers and most general use ones will be easy to access, as with Fighter, thus destroying any sense of actual choice.

gigawuts

Jun 20, 2013, 09:44 AM

Chain would have been MUCH better if it tagged an enemy as opposed to one of its parts, and had a smaller mini-chain that was always on. Each enemy would have its own chain with a smaller reticule (for less visual noise on the screen), and the bonus and chain cap would have been much smaller. Chain trigger would then have been a skill you activate to raise the cap and bonus on a single enemy.

A very easy implementation would be to make Chain Trigger either up to 20 count per ordinary enemy, or +1 enemy chained at a time per level (with a low cap on the chain), and then turn Chain Finish into Chain Target or something with extra chain cap. Completely remove any additional bonus to Chain damage, as after that it would be redundant. Instead, focus on utility, something like enemies you shoot in the air falling less quickly and a debuff for enemies in the air that you shoot that everyone can benefit from.

Every class should have 3 main ways to increase effectiveness: Personal Ability (offense/defense), Personal Support (defense/utility), and Team Support (offense/defense/utility). They should not be mutually exclusive, but if possible they should definitely be mutually inclusive (a team skill will benefit everyone, including you - see: shifta, territory burst, weak bullet, war cry, etc.). Hunter is one of the few classes that follows this scheme, but does so very very poorly due to a horrible distribution of skills, their prerequisites, and SP efficiency.

Inazuma

Jun 20, 2013, 10:56 AM

gigawuts

Jun 20, 2013, 11:04 AM

That's actually something I'm REALLY disappointed in Sega for messing up.

They had a PERFECT opportunity to make wind a useful element, and completely squandered it. We're talking about freaking bird darkers and ocean-based natives. Air element is perfect for both of those.

Then give gizan a secondary effect while we're at it, maybe knockback or maybe a really brief stun or a really tiny lift or I don't know.

Pillan

Jun 20, 2013, 11:27 AM

Force and Techter require you to buy additional skill trees if you want to be good. Every element can be the best element, depending on what area you are playing. Ice is best in the Caves, and it may also be the best in the new beach area.

Is that the case? It would make sense if element advantage was a multiplier instead of static, but I really do not recall it making enough of a difference to outweigh the advantage of, say, faster fire techniques or cheaper lightning techniques.

Of course, using Techer's element multiplier would make such a build more necessary. But then the question is "why go Force/Techer and force yourself to use element when you could just go Force/Fighter, stick to fire, and get a higher overall multiplier?"

But I do not mind taking your word for it, as I have not touched force in forever.

EDIT:

I recall hearing something about everything else getting significantly stronger relative to fire techniques at 11+ to force people to choose another build, so feel free to replace fire with lightning in the previous statement.

EDIT 2:

I found out that there was a PSO2 optimization wiki and it answered all my questions, so there is no need to respond.

Coatl

Jun 20, 2013, 11:56 AM

Yeaaah if you aren't willing to put money into PSO2 force most likely isn't for you. It's probably the only class where to be good everywhere you have to buy additional skill trees.

BlankM

Jun 20, 2013, 02:48 PM

To be a great FO maybe. To be good? Eh...

Lets just say I haven't switched off my Lightning tree in ages.

Omega-z

Jun 20, 2013, 04:59 PM

Well, Braver's Katana & Bow skill's aren't that far apart from each other. In the Vid. the character was level 20 and had both. that's really 17 SP difference at the most with out knowing "IF" it's closer to each other. So, it'll be like Fighter with both at the top for easy access.

HFlowen

Jun 20, 2013, 05:22 PM

Bows are coming back? Hot damn, I might have to start playing again.

UnLucky

Jun 20, 2013, 05:33 PM

Force and Techter require you to buy additional skill trees if you want to be good. Every element can be the best element, depending on what area you are playing. Ice is best in the Caves, and it may also be the best in the new beach area.

Ice could do the highest damage values against a single enemy in Caves/Beach but can you reliably sweep waves of enemies quickly with (Gi)Barta?

Considering the Beach natives will be weak to fire, I just don't see any reason to spec into ice when Foie spam will still destroy everything at a distance.

Even lightning lacks a good long range AoE, but its other strengths make up for it, even in areas not weak to it.

But sure, a second tree to purely spec into both fire and lightning would let you be extra effective in most areas, but Safoie still cuts through Caves mobs, and Zondeel is amazing crowd control no matter where you are.

gigawuts

Jun 20, 2013, 05:37 PM

ITT: Playing FO with one skill tree that spreads bonuses to get a mastery in fire and lightning and then just not playing in caves because lol fuck caves makes you a bad FO

ITT: therefor you're not good if you don't have a pwand, because 20% ermagahd

Inazuma

Jun 20, 2013, 06:25 PM

There are two reasons why forces shouldn't use lightning techs in every area.

The first one is obvious. Unless the enemies are weak to lightning, you would probably be better off using a different element. The other reason is more important. If you use lightning attack techs, you will activate zondeel.

For example, when I do tundra, I will use zondeel to gather enemies and then attack them with fire techs. Not only does it completely obliterate a ton of enemies much faster than lightning techs, but it lets all of the non-forces in the party completely obliterate a ton of enemies too.

But if there is a shitty force in the party using zonde in the tundra, I can't use zondeel correctly, which means the party kills much slower. It's a big annoyance of mine. As a general rule, don't activate zondeel unless the enemies are weak to lightning.

This isn't as big of a problem in the caves because gibarta destroys massive spawns of enemies without needing zondeel. Gibarta will likely demolish the enemies in the new beach area too. Zondeel + fire techs will likely be good too, but it won't work if there is a force spamming zonde like an idiot.

Back when zonde was OP, it made sense to spam it against every enemy in the game. It's not the best tech in every situation anymore, so please stop ruining our zondeels.

Against enemies weak to lightning, Force/Fighter is superior to Force/Techter. For everything else, Force/Techter is usually better. The main reason? Bigger range on zondeel thanks to territory burst.

gigawuts

Jun 20, 2013, 06:38 PM

Yeah, I really wish zondeel's vacuum and the zap were two different techs. Sazan just isn't the same.

I wish they'd just up and add an ordinary vacuum tech that couldn't be zapped. Maybe name it zonverse, I don't care. Then leave zondeel as-is.

UnLucky

Jun 20, 2013, 06:43 PM

Hm, sometimes I'll Zondeel+Safoie+Zonde and wait for the ticks. Or just trigger Zondeel and kill the enemies while they're still all there. It's not like they teleport across the map as soon as they stop getting sucked.

Coatl

Jun 20, 2013, 06:49 PM

I still think Force/fighter is better than force/techer in most situations, but techer has territorial burst which makes it vastly superior to force/fighter in a burst. Everything else techer has, which involves PP management, is negligible when your mag blast recharges so quickly. And if another force is in the party during a burst, your PP bar will never hit 0.

Z-0

Jun 20, 2013, 06:51 PM

But if someone is spamming Zonde, they don't get sucked in because your Zondeel activates as soon as you use it.

BlankM

Jun 20, 2013, 07:48 PM

Yes I try to let zondeel get the full vac effect. Though I don't think it hurts to proc it after a few seconds. Most enemies will die to the zondeel and aren't going anywhere. Also a chained zondeel can easily multi-kill enemies as they spawn which is obviously great for building PSE or during bursts in general.

I would honestly rather have Fo/Te in my party for the utility of TB zondeel. This is only given that you spec your element accordingly for the map. Which does mean having multiple trees to take advantage of EWH. But Fo/Fi is great in TA and specific spawn waves melt to TPS foie.

And we may be getting a "Zanverse" technic in the future. Its a datamined wind technic...

gigawuts

Jun 20, 2013, 08:44 PM

Yeah, I've heard about zanverse. The name implies it will not be a stat buff, but more like megiverse where standing inside gives you a helpful support buff of some kind.

So...maybe it makes you missable? I really hope not, that would be awful. Any better thoughts? Do we have its icon?

UnLucky

Jun 20, 2013, 09:01 PM

Well I'm betting the next stat buff will boost base Dex by 20% for 1m

Omega-z

Jun 20, 2013, 09:53 PM

Zanverse is coming with EP2 with Dewman's it's one of the many Tech's that are coming that was listed on Bump. I would bet it would be a speed increase, range increase or PP stealing spell.

BlankM

Jun 21, 2013, 12:43 AM

Yes when I first shared it here we talked about it potentially being a speed buff. Would be neat.

Rien

Jun 21, 2013, 04:03 AM

Copypasta from the scans thread:

Katana PAs:

Top: Sakura Entou (Cherry Blossom Circular Blade)
Row: Asagiri Rendan, Kanran Kikyou, Hien Tsubaki

Bullet Bow PAs:

Top: Gravity Point
Row: Sharp Bomber, Torrential Arrow, Master Shoot

gigawuts

Jun 21, 2013, 07:23 AM

People have been talking about it being a speed or dex buff since zondeel was released, and I hope it's not one of those. Those are very boring, and honestly pretty counter to game balance. FO/TE do not need a speed buff, and that's exactly what that would effectively be. A dex buff is boring.

Rien

Jun 21, 2013, 07:50 AM

But this is SEGA, what the hell can you expect?

UnLucky

Jun 21, 2013, 08:21 AM

Speed buff would be cool if you could reliably apply it to your group. Or for soloing or in TAs.

A Dex boost would just be next to useless for anyone doing anything (and further reduce the effectiveness of Shifta Crit).

Rien

Jun 21, 2013, 10:36 AM

Katana skill: "Katana Combat"

Description says using it allows the user to enjoy speedier action sequences.

gigawuts

Jun 21, 2013, 10:58 AM

If they REALLY try to quell player whining about melee needing to be faster by giving one single class one single speedier weapon it will be time to be angry and write angry letters that will be ignored.

BUT

If that speedy (as in mobility, if that's what it's meant to be) skill works on all melee weapons, and braver has decent skills for melee, hu/br and fi/br would be combinations I'm really looking forward to. HU would need its skills toned down a bit to make it worthwhile for fi/br to look tempting, though.

Hrith

Jun 21, 2013, 12:56 PM

Braver is the only class that specialises in weapon types from different families, so my first interrogation is about the evasive action: Step, Dive Roll, both? I doubt both would appear on the skill tree.

That Hailstorm Volley of arrows looks like a ranged Glory Rain, that could really work if the damage is comparable.

The only thing I wanted was an actual ranged weapon, one that does not miss 90% of its shots at long range, it does not look like bows will fill that role.

Katanas actually look fun to use.

Kondibon

Jun 21, 2013, 01:10 PM

Braver is the only class that specialises in weapon types from different families, so my first interrogation is about the evasive action: Step, Dive Roll, both? I doubt both would appear on the skill tree.

When I was watching the live stream video, near the end of the rockbear fight they were using to show off the weapons It looked like they used a step attack with the bow a couple of times. I think it has the step dodge, Which would be good because that roll is lame.

Z-0

Jun 21, 2013, 01:21 PM

Yes, bow has step, thankfully.

BlankM

Jun 21, 2013, 01:33 PM

Bravers have a V101 skill? That'd be AWESOME!

The things I'd do with sped-up swords. <3

SakoHaruo

Jun 21, 2013, 01:36 PM

but what is that grounded dash with the hit box, or is that just pointless effects adding to Braver's step?

Rien

Jun 22, 2013, 01:03 AM

That Hailstorm Volley of arrows looks like a ranged Glory Rain, that could really work if the damage is comparable.

Torrential Arrow*

Apparently Gravity Point is going to be similar to Zondeel.

Zenobia

Jun 22, 2013, 02:26 AM

Torrential Arrow*

Apparently Gravity Point is going to be similar to Zondeel.

Thx Rien updated the OP with new info.

Hrith

Jun 22, 2013, 04:35 AM

Torrential ArrowI know :P I was making a reference to Dragon's Dogma ;o

Apparently Gravity Point is going to be similar to Zondeel.Oh god...

gigawuts

Jun 22, 2013, 07:37 AM

I really, really, really hope all multipliers on braver are shared between both weapons.

In fact, I really hope they both depend on striking, and then ranger & gunner multipliers apply to striking after the update. This way you can pool into one stat.

Because seriously, both of those weapons look fun, and it's sounding like they'll both get unique abilities (e.g. a vacuumy PA for bows, but probably not katanas). I'll be a bit fussed if they make it so one side of the tree is for striking and the other is for ranged. Bonus rage points if one side is for striking AND ranged, and the other is just for ranged, as is an ordinary thing.

Rien

Jun 22, 2013, 08:34 AM

Apparently the "skill tree and gameplay is geared for both newbies and experts".

I don't entirely like the sound of that...

gigawuts

Jun 22, 2013, 08:39 AM

If done right that can be very fun, if a little bit OP. Which is exactly what I'm expecting.

I'm pretty much waiting for this to be the mechromancer from borderlands 2. Easy to play for people who are bad or don't care, whatthefuckcrazypowerful/versatile for people who are good and/or do care.

UnLucky

Jun 22, 2013, 10:14 AM

I'm waiting for it to have dinky little bonuses trapped below Stat Ups with harsh conditions attached so a good subclass is required to provide it with the majority of its damage.

Like 15% damage when countering, 15% when at long range, 10% charged PA damage, +50 S/R-Atk when only one enemy is nearby

Zenobia

Jun 22, 2013, 10:28 AM

I was honestly and actually thinking Braver's Skill Tree would be a bit of a combination of how either HU's or FI's Skill Tree(though I prefers FI's tree setup) would look like. Honestly FI's skill tree was forgiving the stances were right the fuck there so you didn't have to spend much to get to em, and im hoping Braver's Skill Tree will be somewhat the same? I hope?

Really don't want Sega to mess this one up being able to be THAT versatile is going to bring so much to the table as far as sub class options go.

Omega-z

Jun 22, 2013, 12:18 PM

Zenobia - I think it will be like the FI tree since the SP to spec into both Katana & Bow skill's are low going by the video. And with Rien's comment of it being like this "skill tree and gameplay is geared for both newbies and experts", Fit's along those line's.

Zenobia

Jun 23, 2013, 06:25 AM

Yeah that's my go card on that I can only hope that is how it plays out its just scary thinking about X3!

Rien

Jun 23, 2013, 07:17 AM

SEGA messes up everything

While I'm hoping they don't screw the Braver tree, the description makes me expect that they will.

Zenobia

Jun 23, 2013, 09:01 AM

Welp once it comes out i'll clean up the OP or maybe make a new thread for the real deal after all the info has been gained. Once the Dumans and new class have been introduced i'll make my Duman first then play Barver on Yuri use her as a testing phase to see whats what I a lot of skill trees to throw away so yeah im prepared for it.

gigawuts

Jun 23, 2013, 09:03 AM

Honestly though, isn't that what every single class should be? Accessible to newbies, but rewarding to skilled players?

Why are they acting like this is something they should be praised for doing, or is even worth mentioning? This should be a completely ordinary thing.

ShinMaruku

Jun 23, 2013, 11:50 AM

I say fuck the accessible to newbies and be a rewarding to skilled players out of the box.

gigawuts

Jun 23, 2013, 12:02 PM

I say fuck the accessible to newbies and be a rewarding to skilled players out of the box.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vgk-lA12FBk

A well designed skilltree accommodates all kinds of players by making the weapons themselves accessible to newbies but highly rewarding for good players. One example could be a shotgun with a wide spread at close range, but highly accurate at long range with powerful headshot damage. But wait, what's that you say? That doesn't make sense?

It doesn't need to make sense, this is a video game. If I wanted sense I'd be at a shooting range.

ShinMaruku

Jun 23, 2013, 12:13 PM

Why not both? Well more chances for design to fail for one. If it was not Sonic Team then maybe I'd entertain that.

UnLucky

Jun 23, 2013, 12:15 PM

What does it even mean to be "accessible to new players" anyway? No weapon gears? The first point in every skill is 90% of the total effectiveness?

And "rewarding to skilled players" means the tree is full of optional Stat Ups and Slayer skills that are total crap that anyone with any sense would completely ignore? Or what

gigawuts

Jun 23, 2013, 12:21 PM

In my mind, it means early access to gears and class-based roles without forcing you into one direction (skills such as pp revival, weak bullet, etc. with access as easy as fighter stances), and good multipliers that are not at the end of a tree (so something like weak hit advance but as easily accessed as fighter stances are).

Then, with the higher level SP, situational bonuses and other such things (like chase, again, an example decently done by fighter).

Fighter's mistake is splitting the tree in half, and making one half a situational multiplier & debuff and the other half a weak static bonus that requires you to be nearly dead. One is decent, the other is horrible. That, and, the pace of multipliers as you level up slows down considerably, unlike other classes that maintain a similar pace until much later in the game.

edit: Then, like I said earlier, more customization options that augment what your class is meant to do, but doesn't define what your class is meant to do. Additional perks, not things that are the purpose of your class. Standing snipe is something that I'd leave where it is, under this example, as it's A. a situational multiplier and B. something some players will never actually use in their normal gameplay, making it a customization option. The yin to standing snipe's yang would be a bonus for hitting things while moving.

Zenobia

Jun 23, 2013, 12:47 PM

Yeah I remember the first time I saw FI's skill tree once I saw where the stances were I was happy as hell its pretty much the very first tree to be so forgiving having the stances so close to each other. Yeah bad move splitting em up as they did and as explained the other 2 rather good ones being brave chase and chase bind.

I could only wish for Bravers ST to reveal or be the same if so then well done, but another problem I'm also worried about is where the active skills are gonna be, as this class seems to have a lot of active skills. I guess that is to be expected from a dual purpose class. But man if the skills are buried underneath and resemble TE's ST work then FML.

UnLucky

Jun 23, 2013, 12:50 PM

So basically if Braver's skill tree turns out to be like Gunner's then Sega is a bunch of damn liars.

gigawuts

Jun 23, 2013, 01:08 PM

I would REALLY like braver to turn out similar to fighter's skilltree layout, with Wise Stance being the bow active skill and Wise Stance Crit and Double Saber Gear being multiplier skills, then the same in reverse for Brave Stance, BS Crit, and Dagger Gear etc. for Katanas. Then for Brave Stance Up, make that the secondary active skill for Katanas.

But then this is the important part: Customization skills on either side of the tree should benefit (directly or indirectly) both weapons. Something like, I don't know, a movement bonus while charging on the bow tree should be applied to katanas. A, I dunno, PP reduction for the katana side should work on bows.

In other words: Bows and katanas should not be mutually exclusive, and should promote mixing on both sides to create interesting hybrid builds. "Specialization" as it exists on HU's fury stance should never ever happen, especially not on a split damage type class.

UnLucky

Jun 23, 2013, 01:25 PM

Yeah, I don't want to see Bravers having to choose which of their two weapons deals twice as much damage as the other, but likewise I don't want them to get an unconditional 220% damage boost...

gigawuts

Jun 23, 2013, 01:28 PM

Agreed, that's why I say each weapon tree should get unique, conditional bonuses that can be used on both, but won't necessarily be too stellar on both. Better mobility while charging would actually be better for katanas than bows, so move those two off-the-top-of-my-head ideas around. It's great for katanas, but less useful for bows who will be able to hit things from a distance anyway. But it's still able to be used, which is a lot more than can be said for Weak Stance.

Seriously, I constantly say melee should get some kind of bonus to weak points or breakable parts, and then they go and give a continuous bonus to bows of all damn things o;agdsf;uads;aweugtg394w643

UnLucky

Jun 23, 2013, 01:32 PM

I hope bows get the old style WB shot that lets people lock onto the arrow that will be great.

Hrith

Jun 23, 2013, 04:30 PM

I may have not followed everything here, but isn't HU as a subclass covering pretty much everything? We all know what that did to RA/HU for the R-ATK part, and the S-ATK part is even stronger.

The BR skill tree on its own may be unfair to one damage type, but I do not think that will be an issue with Fury Stance.

Dunno about FI or RA as a subclass, but my money's on BR/HU.

Coatl

Jun 23, 2013, 05:20 PM

I
Dunno about FI or RA as a subclass, but my money's on BR/HU.

BR/RA has access to WHA, standing snipe and weak bullet.

Alisha

Jun 23, 2013, 05:37 PM

i hope it is split up so i have a reason to play braver on more than 1 character.

UnLucky

Jun 23, 2013, 05:43 PM

Well, if the multipliers are completely equal within the Braver tree, Br/Hu's Striking would be a bit better than its Ranged. In comparison, a Br/Ra's Striking would be really bad, with its Ranged just barely overtaking Br/Hu if all conditions are met. But it has Weak Bullet.

A Br/Fi would just not be a good idea, really. Lower damage all around unless all conditions are met. And Br/Gu is even worse.

I'd like to see it mesh well with the teching classes, but I seriously doubt that. Perhaps when the next class comes out?

gigawuts

Jun 23, 2013, 05:47 PM

Yeah, Fi's multipliers are unfortunate. They used to be good, with only RA being insanely over the top, but now with the changed skills and extra SP they're actually below par.

Braver will almost certainly have minimal synergy with teching classes. The only real competition is BR/RA and BR/HU, with HU offering better melee & always-on ranged bonuses, and RA offering conditional bonuses (must be standing still and getting a headshot) exclusively for ranged plus weak bullet.

It comes down to, as you might expect, if you want to use katanas, if you want to use bows with some breathing room in when your multipliers work, and if you want to use bows with weak bullet.

That said.

Fighter does offer knuckle dashing, chase, and deadly archer. It may be that FI/BR will be a good combination (by virtue of good allclass BR weapons, since good FI allclass weapons probably won't be added in the BR update).

edit: mixed up br/fi and fi/br on the bottom there

UnLucky

Jun 23, 2013, 06:01 PM

Well, if Braver boosts all damage types by more than Fighter, then Fo/Br or Te/Br could be worth considering. But it has to get 150% damage somewhere, and I doubt it would be without conditions. Maybe that Weak Stance works for all types, who knows?

Alisha

Jun 23, 2013, 09:56 PM

im curious how if at all braver will help melee techers.

Hrith

Jun 24, 2013, 01:24 AM

Well, we seem to agree. That's bad, I'll find something else to say.

Gama

Jun 27, 2013, 08:03 PM

i wonder if Braver/Force would be a good combo.

Vandread

Jun 28, 2013, 03:31 AM

i wonder if Braver/Force would be a good combo.
Depends what you'd use the Force for.

Gravity Point could be a substitute for a Talis'd Zondeel. If that is the case, I don't think Force has much to offer aside of the usual Resta/Anti stuff since Shifta/Deband would be overthrown by higher stats/multipliers on whatever sub you take. Even Resta/Anti use is debatable on whether or not it's that valuable too.

Of course, most likely a Zondeel with Bolt PP Save maxed out is gonna be cheaper to use than Gravity Point (if that is a Zondeel-like skill), but then again both your melee/ranged and your force parts are likely gonna suffer from lower stats meaning you're gonna take longer to kill stuff. Heck, maybe Gravity Point doesn't have much of a range to it, as to give space to FO or TE's Zondeel.

I dunno what you'd use Force otherwise for, ranged DPS/AoE? Maybe Bows can cover for that (sorta like how Gunslash can). Guessing the usual personal preference is gonna come into play.

Redzone

Jul 1, 2013, 10:05 PM

Zenobia

Jul 1, 2013, 10:35 PM

WHAT???

Isn't this the Braver thread?

It was a comment he made towards someone considering a subclass option for FO so he is on topic. Many are talking about sub class options for BRA.

Coatl

Jul 2, 2013, 01:27 AM

So was it ever confirmed whether braver leaned toward s-def or r-def?

jooozek

Jul 2, 2013, 02:47 AM

redroses

Jul 2, 2013, 02:58 AM

Kondibon

Jul 2, 2013, 03:13 AM

As braver will be a hybrid class, would this be a class where a hybrid mag would actually be useful?
I guess it also depends how the skilltree will be set up and if you actually have to choose between katana or bow, or if you actually will use both to the same amount.

Min-maxing is probably still going to be the best way to build it like anything else considering higher damage>variety. That's not stopping me from wanting to play a hybrid build though.

Alisha

Jul 2, 2013, 03:22 AM

So was it ever confirmed whether braver leaned toward s-def or r-def?
pretty much yes it leans torward r-def

Coatl

Jul 2, 2013, 03:27 AM

Yeah I heard that the braver in the nico nico stream had the vardha armor on, but is that all we have to go by?

Zenobia

Jul 2, 2013, 04:23 AM

Yeah I heard that the braver in the nico nico stream had the vardha armor on, but is that all we have to go by?

Which Nico nico vid and was that with or without subclass?

Also keep in mind of racial stats people before we go saying its R def or not. Speculation is okay though, and if it wasn't a Duman in that Nico nico vid I doubt the Duman can equip it.

Alisha

Jul 2, 2013, 04:40 AM

in the video the dewman was 60 br/60 Hu with 175 s-atk mag. that requires Ra level rdef

Zenobia

Jul 2, 2013, 04:42 AM

in the video the dewman was 60 br/60 Hu with 175 s-atk mag. that requires Ra level rdef

Do you have the link? And as I though it had a subclass, so the subclass is why it was able to wear it so no Braver isn't R def sense Female Dumans have 98 in each def stat and Male has 97.

Though I already knew Dumans would be subclass dependent to wear any of the good units to begin with.

Coatl

Jul 2, 2013, 04:47 AM

Do you have the link?

This.

Zenobia

Jul 2, 2013, 04:52 AM

This.

Exactly I still wan't the link Male Duman has 97 in all def stats Female 98 so I highly doubt they will be R Def.

UnLucky

Jul 2, 2013, 05:09 AM

Do you have the link? And as I though it had a subclass, so the subclass is why it was able to wear it so no Braver isn't R def sense Female Dumans have 98 in each def stat and Male has 97.

Though I already knew Dumans would be subclass dependent to wear any of the good units to begin with.

Subclass stats are based on the race as well, so I don't see how having Hunter gives it enough R-Def. Only Ranger and Gunner give more R-Def than the others.

Alisha

Jul 2, 2013, 05:11 AM

its somewhere in this thread http://www.pso-world.com/forums/showthread.php?p=2989171

edit: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7VDODTT_cxM&feature=youtu.be

UnLucky

Jul 2, 2013, 05:16 AM

Coatl

Jul 2, 2013, 05:53 AM

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7VDODTT_cxM&feature=youtu.be

It shows the units at 19:15 but I can hardly tell the base stats of the class they are playing. :I Perhaps the nico nico is of higher quality?

Zenobia

Jul 2, 2013, 06:47 AM

Subclass stats are based on the race as well, so I don't see how having Hunter gives it enough R-Def. Only Ranger and Gunner give more R-Def than the others.

Who said anything about Duman as a hunter we said Braver go back a few post. Also we don't even know Bravers base stats to begin with.

On a diff note Alisha gonna check on those links thx.

Edit: I guess Braver has some S def and R def involved on it I dunno maybe. I couldn't really see a damn thing though.

Hrith

Jul 2, 2013, 07:09 AM

Do we know whether there is going to be a requirement to unlock braver, like there is for fighter, gunner and techer?

Z-0

Jul 2, 2013, 07:27 AM

No, it's a starting class, as was shown on the character select screen.

Zenobia

Jul 2, 2013, 07:27 AM

Do we know whether there is going to be a requirement to unlock braver, like there is for fighter, gunner and techer?

Nah no RQ it will be available to everyone upon Duman release.

Hrith

Jul 2, 2013, 07:39 AM

Okay, thanks.

gigawuts

Jul 2, 2013, 07:39 AM

Which implies there will be an advanced class, like FI/GU/TE.

But then, if BR is a striking & ranged hybrid class, what about teching? Will there be striking & teching and ranged & teching classes? Will there be just one? Will those also be new classes, or will they be the advanced classes you get when braver is level 30? If there's just one, that one might be the advanced class.

I have to say, as much as I'd prefer a striking/teching class for my own gameplay, I'm much more interested to see what they would do with a ranged & teching class from a mechanic and balance standpoint. Techer does already exist, and could be argued to be the striking/teching hybrid class, so there's that too.

redroses

Jul 2, 2013, 08:03 AM

I really really hope that if (I really hope so) we get new hybrid classes SEGA is creative with making new weapons. I would love to have a ranged weapon that is designed to fire technic bullets (for a ranger/force hybrid class) and that is far distant support. I could see it having things like shifta, deband and resta bullets. I guess the biggest problem with this weapon would be that they would have to make too many different bullet photon arts for it. Or, they give the weapon bullet PAs and the element of these PAs would be decided by the element of your weapon (like wands).

I guess the best example to what I am imagining is, picture having a rifle with fire element and when performing sneak shooter for example you blast out a giant foie, or glory rain letting mini foies rain down.

Zenobia

Jul 2, 2013, 08:11 AM

ShinMaruku

Jul 2, 2013, 03:04 PM

Platinum should have been contracted to add bravers....

UnLucky

Jul 2, 2013, 03:21 PM

Who said anything about Duman as a hunter we said Braver go back a few post. Also we don't even know Bravers base stats to begin with.

On a diff note Alisha gonna check on those links thx.

Edit: I guess Braver has some S def and R def involved on it I dunno maybe. I couldn't really see a damn thing though.

YOU were talking about Duman with a Hunter subclass. "Subclass dependent" for their gear, but Hunter doesn't help for that.

Braver has to have the same R-Def as Ranger or Gunner in order to equip Vardha units on base stats alone. No matter what race, and no matter what subclass.

Zenobia

Jul 2, 2013, 06:24 PM

YOU were talking about Duman with a Hunter subclass. "Subclass dependent" for their gear, but Hunter doesn't help for that.

Braver has to have the same R-Def as Ranger or Gunner in order to equip Vardha units on base stats alone. No matter what race, and no matter what subclass.

NO I did not mention hunter at all in any of my post NOT ALISHA'S.

I clearly said, Braver nothing about subclass asking how was Duman able to wear vardha units unless it was subbing something. Again we didn't even know what Bravers base stats were yet we were saying Braver was gonna be R def based ty.

Again we don't know Bravers base stats or stats gains upon lvling you can speculate and say it HAS TO or w/e ya want Sega has the last say so and they can have them have any stats in wherever they pls as far as they are concerned.

Once again you completely misunderstand as per usual.

gigawuts

Jul 2, 2013, 06:27 PM

To be fair you can be a bit hard to understand at times.

UnLucky

Jul 2, 2013, 06:48 PM

I said, Braver nothing about subclass asking how was Duman able to wear vardha units unless it was subbing something. Again we didn't even know what Bravers base stats were yet we were saying Braver was gonna be R def based ty.

Again we don't know Bravers base stats or stats gains upon lvling you can speculate and say it HAS TO or w/e ya want Sega has the last say so and they can have them have any stats in wherever they pls as far as they are concerned.

If Braver/Hunter can equip the Vardha set, that means Braver has similar base R-Def to Ranger and Gunner. Maybe they fudged the stats for the preview and it can change when they release. But the point still stands.

Ranger without any subclass can't wear the Vardha set. Neither can Gunner. Anything other than a Ranger or Gunner main cannot naturally equip the Vardha set, even with a Ranger or Gunner sub, and even as a Caseal.

So every race depends on their subclass to equip their sets. This is a direct response to one of your posts about Duman. It doesn't matter for any class or race combination. You need the correct main class and a subclass in order to get 489 Def without any on your mag/tree.

Ra/Hu doesn't have 489 S-Def. Te/Fo doesn't have 489 T-Def. Fi/Gu doesn't have 489 R-Def. So if Braver isn't focused on R-Def, they can't get 489 of it naturally, even with an R-Def focused sub, even as a Caseal, let alone a Duman.

Zenobia

Jul 2, 2013, 07:42 PM

So if Braver isn't focused on R-Def, they can't get 489 of it naturally, even with an R-Def focused sub, even as a Caseal, let alone a Duman.

Everything else I didn't care but this stood out as to what I was basically talking about. My point is though male have 97 in S def R def and Tech and Female having 1 point higher I just don't see it reaching I dunno maybe.

As far as braver is concerned I would rather wait and see what teh stat gains are upon lvls cause I still say, it being a hybrid class it may get points into s def and r def hell maybe even tech def. Other than that its still to early to say what stands and what dosen't

gigawuts

Jul 2, 2013, 07:44 PM

Are those race/gender modifiers confirmed as final?

UnLucky

Jul 2, 2013, 07:53 PM

A Human Ra/Hu has 510 R-Def at 60/60 (100%)
A Caseal Ra/Hu has 534 R-Def at 60/60 (105%)
A Duman Ra/Hu would have 494 R-Def at 60/60 (97%)

Vardha requires 489.

Note that even Caseal Hu/Ra can't equip that set at 60/60 with only 460 R-Def.
Even at 97% racial modifier, Dumans can equip their main unit set just fine at 60/60 with any subclass.

I don't see Braver getting two stats as high as the other classes, since we all know Techer's defensive stats are just copied over from Fighter (except with Force's HP). So if they focus on R-Def, expect not to be able to equip the Ragne set (as if you even wanted to, as a melee).

Who knows, maybe they realized that hybrids can't get by with specialized stats in separate areas. Maybe their T-Def will be absolute shit to "make up" for having normal stats in two areas.

gigawuts

Jul 2, 2013, 07:58 PM

Well, the hidden resistances are worth taking into consideration for armor sets. I'm interested to see how the vader set matches up against the 6* spike series against all damage types.

ShinMaruku

Jul 2, 2013, 08:38 PM

I wonder what their skill hitboxes are..... I'd like Katanas to be good space controlling weapons.

Zenobia

Jul 2, 2013, 08:43 PM

Are those race/gender modifiers confirmed as final?

Yes those are the confirmed stats which is why im questioning a lot about the units they CAN or CANNOT equip which is why me and Unlucky are bumping heads I fully understand what she is saying in a sense.

Duman stats from S atk all the way through to T Def

Source http://pso2blog.wordpress.com/2012/05/09/rumourmill-no-arks-you-are-the-dewmans/

Coatl

Jul 2, 2013, 10:16 PM

http://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/9259868/pso2_final/pso2_2013_01_23_modified_stats.txt

These are the stats of every race in every class up to lv100. Have fun. 3:

Maninbluejumpsuit

Jul 2, 2013, 11:30 PM

Dumb question, but is it safe to assume bullet bow damage goes off of ranged attack now?

Zenobia

Jul 2, 2013, 11:36 PM

http://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/9259868/pso2_final/pso2_2013_01_23_modified_stats.txt

These are the stats of every race in every class up to lv100. Have fun. 3:

LMFAO if this is indeed the real one there stats are even lower in this on HU, RA and TE no way Unlucky's Vardha comment will fly now.....

I mean literally RA female 88 R def Male 87 R def?

UnLucky

Jul 2, 2013, 11:41 PM

What do you mean?

RAcaseal's R-Def is 461 at lv60, RAdewm is 426. With 20% from a subclass, that brings them both up enough to equip Vardha.

Though that seems off still.

Zenobia

Jul 2, 2013, 11:46 PM

Dunno now its anyone's guess this clearly shows Sega can do what they want now.

Shambertin

Jul 4, 2013, 03:50 AM

i think braver will be a lesser version of RA HU, becuase braver is both at the same time. why would you want a lesser version of something that is already good? but i assume too much the tree might make it awesome or it could just be full of gimmicky skills that don't do anything well.

don't get vexed i think the bow is awesome i will try it to see.

looked at the link posted about dumans posted by zenobia... why would you want to do the naked glitch...... and why is it in with stuff about racial base stats... i mean really if you want to see a naked girl go outside get a life and meet someone or just do the lesser thing and go to a strip club. either way LOL

i myself find all the g.i.r.l('s) {GUY IN REAL LIFE} of pso very funny. i would comment more on this but then that would just open up a whole load of rebuttle fun and i'm so over arguments on the internet, that's kids stuff.

Kondibon

Jul 4, 2013, 04:06 AM

i think braver will be a lesser version of RA HU, becuase braver is both at the same time. why would you want a lesser version of something that is already good? but i assume too much the tree might make it awesome or it could just be full of gimmicky skills that don't do anything well.

don't get vexed i think the bow is awesome i will try it to see.
Judging by the way Braver's weapons work I think comparing it to hunter is a bit silly. I think it's going to sacrifice weapon variety within a specific type (It has 1 and 1/2 melee weapons, and 1 1/2 ranged weapons). For individual weapons with more variety. The Katana is very mobile but also greatly rewards defensive play. The bow has mobility and it seems like most of it's PAs are chargeable.

Whereas a fighter's mobility seems to focus on dancing around your target (hence the stances being based on the enemy's orientation relative to you), Braver's mobility seems to focus on jumping from target to target with katanas, or controlling distance with the bow.

That said, I still think it's going to end up being best min-maxed into one weapon. A hybrid Braver most likely won't be as good as one that focuses on Katanas, or one that focuses on bows.

gigawuts

Jul 4, 2013, 08:02 AM

It all depends on braver's skills and the base strengths of its weapons.

Let's say braver has two halves to the skilltree. Both sides fully eat up your SP to spec into - so you can only do katanas or bows. Okay.

Now let's say katanas and bows are pretty weak without SP spent. The skill bonuses are pretty high. Bonuses like three or four +15% skills. They require the full investment to be good - you're now pigeonholed into just one or the other.

Or, let's say katanas and bows are pretty strong without SP spent. The skill bonuses are what's pretty weak. Like, two +10% skills that only work on each weapon, a couple skills that work on both, and then the specialist weapons.

In the former you're shafted if you don't invest, like trying to go damage HU without using the fury tree except only one weapon is weak - your other weapons are still powerful. You're only dealing around half the damage you could be dealing with that one weapon. But in the latter you could pick one and still be decently good with the other (like playing FO and grabbing two fire masteries and just one lightning mastery - your lightning will still be pretty decent).

Ideally the tree will not force you into one weapon or the other. The class is clearly being sold on having both weapons, and it should be balanced accordingly. All damage bonus skills should work equally on striking and ranged like fury stance and JA bonus do on hunter (or at least how it did work, before the nerf). The damage multipliers should also be pretty easy to access early on in the tree. It's the spec skills that should be harder to get - like weak stance or the two katana skills.

Also, there had better be a second skill for bows that soaks up the SP the second katana skill does for melee users. Let's not have ranged users have even more extra SP kicking around, while being balanced with a melee spec while it's forced to spend more SP.

UnLucky

Jul 4, 2013, 03:44 PM

Well if the skills are amazing, we would see Braver more as a sub on classes with stronger weapons. If the weapons are amazing, we'd see Br/Hu or Br/Ra. If they get Weak Bullet, even Gu/Br would be viable.

I'd like to see easy access to the defining skills, with large universal bonuses near the top of the tree. Further down you would unlock small bonuses for only one damage type (like one 10% for each).

Zenobia

Jul 5, 2013, 11:44 AM

Added data mined skills to OP.

UnLucky

Jul 5, 2013, 11:56 AM

So they get Step Attack and Snatch Step, hm?

Wonder what Average/Combat/Short mean, and I'm willing to bet "JR Bonus" is just like +50 Atk after a JR.

gigawuts

Jul 5, 2013, 11:57 AM

Am I supposed to know what Snatch Step is? Was it in a previous title? It sounds like you can do a step attack that grabs an enemy, is that all it is?

Gardios

Jul 5, 2013, 12:02 PM

Wonder what Average/Combat/Short mean, and I'm willing to bet "JR Bonus" is just like +50 Atk after a JR.

Since all stances have been opposites so far, Average will probably boost non-weakpoint damage.

UnLucky

Jul 5, 2013, 12:03 PM

Am I supposed to know what Snatch Step is? Was it in a previous title? It sounds like you can do a step attack that grabs an enemy, is that all it is?
It's the dash attack they show in the katana previews, pretty sure

Since all stances have been opposites so far, Average will probably boost non-weakpoint damage.
And Short would be uncharged PAs?

SakoHaruo

Jul 5, 2013, 12:03 PM

Snatch Step. I've been wondering if that dash was a skill since the first video.

Zenobia

Jul 5, 2013, 12:05 PM

I believe it is indeed that flash step move but iirc it was able to be done once she used some kinda skill. I know for sure I saw her use a skill.

gigawuts

Jul 5, 2013, 12:13 PM

SakoHaruo

Jul 5, 2013, 12:33 PM

Zenobia

Jul 5, 2013, 12:36 PM

In the reveal footage, there was one Skill that would turn on and off depending on which direction she was facing. That's probably the Combat skill and I'm pretty sure it's Katana exclusive because "Combat Finish", which was also done during that part of the video.

Hmm I didn't catch that at what time of that video did you see it? Was it during the RockBear fight?

EDIT: Yup that's Katana Combat at exactly 4:08 of that vid I can see it now, must be where the flash stepping comes in at as well no idea if its linked to the step moves though.

SakoHaruo

Jul 5, 2013, 12:40 PM

Hmm I didn't catch that at what time of that video did you see it? Was it during the RockBear fight?

it was during the Dagan fight

edit; actually I don't think it has anything to do with the way she's facing. the skill start to flash when she's attacking and dashing. After using finish up the skill turned off.

Zenobia

Jul 5, 2013, 12:50 PM

Yeah I saw that, and when they come out immah fool around with it to see what makes it actually tick.

Zenobia

Jul 5, 2013, 04:33 PM

Updated OP with new Braver skills that were missing.

Alisha

Jul 5, 2013, 06:37 PM

looking at this it looks like braver might be able to convert dex to damage D: as in a % of your dex is added to damage

https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/9259868/pso2_final/pso2_ep2_all_class_skills.txt

i assume this would work in a similar fashion to wand gear except as 1 one single hit?

edit:.............OMG JUST REVERSAL BONUS IS SEXY!

EDIT2:if average charge bonus does what i think it does RIP Fi sub unless you are maining wired lances.

edit3: take back what i said in edit 1 but im gonna definately need more tree's now

edit4: HAHAHA WTF SEGA FU! Y U GIVE FORCE DARK TECH SHORT CHARGE AND NOT TECHER!!!! LOLOLOLOLOL!
OH IT GETS BETTER WIND TECH SHORT CHARGE TOO WTF!!!!

better see some awesome stuff when i get down to techer

fury gear boost for hunter. now thats awesome.
finally hunter gets a mate boosting skill. 20% boost at 10

techer gets tier 2 of shifta and deband advance and some skills based around the wand i cant make sense out of.

if i had to guess power wand converts 40% of your t-atk to s-atk?

Xaelouse

Jul 5, 2013, 08:05 PM

territory burst pp save sounds like a must-have, but I'm curious as to what powerwand even does. The new PP convert skills dont seem very useful; they boost damage by 20% for 30 sec.
I dont even think wind/dark/light short charges will even be on force, but if they do end up there then that just makes the divide between FO and TE even clearer. TE needs melee modifying skills badly though.
On another note, FO gets more retarded skills likeHP reduction for 10 max PP

gigawuts

Jul 5, 2013, 08:06 PM

All of these new skills at 10 sp each...unless they revamp fury stance AGAIN so it doesn't take up 70 freaking sp I can't see them seeing much use. Especially not for a mediocre conditional 10% bonus.

Zenobia

Jul 5, 2013, 08:18 PM

Rien

Jul 5, 2013, 11:07 PM

"Limit Break"

Fighters what the hell are you doing :C

Rien

Jul 5, 2013, 11:17 PM

Oh, that almost teleporting horizontal dash? That's nice, although I'll be disappointed (but not surprised) if it's exclusive to katanas. Every melee weapon really needs something like that, with longer range and faster speeds than step attack.

Snatch Step and Step Attack are separate.

._. It looks like the Braver's skill tree will be a complete mess.

jcart953

Jul 5, 2013, 11:53 PM

"Limit Break"

Fighters what the hell are you doing :C

Wait whats wrong with limit break? Seems like it could be ok....

Vandread

Jul 6, 2013, 05:17 AM

Snatch Step and Step Attack are separate.

._. It looks like the Braver's skill tree will be a complete mess.
Spent some time looking at its files. The initial release doesn't have a couple of skills that Agrajag found, so they're going to be expanding upon the trees again in October or so.

The files are pretty much listing skills by line, from left to right, then next line, from left to right, etc. I can't read the actual pre-requisite lines since that stuff's encrypted, but if you go with your gut feeling a bit you can actually sort of imagine what the tree will be looking like.

Braver's file lists the following:
[spoiler-box]BraverDexUp 1
Rare10Braver
BraverMag
BraverStep
BraverAtpStrikeUp1
BraverAtpFirearmUp1
BraverStepAdvance
SnatchStep
BraverStepAttack
BraverJustReversal
AverageStance
Combat
KatanaGear
WeakStance
ShortTime
JustReversalBonus
WeakStanceUp1
ShortTimeUp1
ShortTimeBonus1
CombatJABonus1
CombatFinish
AverageStanceUp1
AverageStanceCritical
BraverDexUp2
WeakStanceCritical
AverageChargeBonus
WeakChargeBonus[/spoiler-box]

Description of the tree (or well, how I assume the tree will look):
[spoiler-box]So now we have the skills that either open up the tree, or have no likely pre-requisite;
Dex Up 1, Rare 10* Mastery, Braver Mag, Step.

Doing the Step-line first, since those skills are easy to recognize;
Step Advance under Step,
Snatch Step and Step Attack under Step Advance,
Just Reversal under Step Attack,
Just Reversal Bonus under Just Reversal.

Looking at other trees, one can assume that it only has 1 origin point, just like the others; that would be Dex Up 1.
S-ATK Up 1 and R-ATK Up 1 would be under Dex Up 1.

S-ATK Up line contains Average Stance, Combat, Katana Gear.
Combat has Combat JA Bonus and Combat Finish.
Average Stance has Average Stance Up 1 and Average Stance Critical.
Most likely, Average Stance Up 1 leads into Average Charge Bonus.

R-ATK Up line contains Weak Stance and Short Time. The Dex Up 2 skill is likely in this area as well.
Short Time only has its 2 passives under it, Short Time Up 1 and Short Time Bonus 1.
Weak Stance has Weak Stance Up 1.
Weak Stance Up 1 has (probably) Dex Up 2 and Weak Stance Critical.
Chances are, Dex Up 2 leads into Weak Charge Bonus.[/spoiler-box]

Zenobia

Jul 6, 2013, 06:33 AM

Spent some time looking at its files. The initial release doesn't have a couple of skills that Agrajag found, so they're going to be expanding upon the trees again in October or so.

The files are pretty much listing skills by line, from left to right, then next line, from left to right, etc. I can't read the actual pre-requisite lines since that stuff's encrypted, but if you go with your gut feeling a bit you can actually sort of imagine what the tree will be looking like.

Braver's file lists the following:
[spoiler-box]BraverDexUp 1
Rare10Braver
BraverMag
BraverStep
BraverAtpStrikeUp1
BraverAtpFirearmUp1
BraverStepAdvance
SnatchStep
BraverStepAttack
BraverJustReversal
AverageStance
Combat
KatanaGear
WeakStance
ShortTime
JustReversalBonus
WeakStanceUp1
ShortTimeUp1
ShortTimeBonus1
CombatJABonus1
CombatFinish
AverageStanceUp1
AverageStanceCritical
BraverDexUp2
WeakStanceCritical
AverageChargeBonus
WeakChargeBonus[/spoiler-box]

Description of the tree (or well, how I assume the tree will look):
[spoiler-box]So now we have the skills that either open up the tree, or have no likely pre-requisite;
Dex Up 1, Rare 10* Mastery, Braver Mag, Step.

Doing the Step-line first, since those skills are easy to recognize;
Step Advance under Step,
Snatch Step and Step Attack under Step Advance,
Just Reversal under Step Attack,
Just Reversal Bonus under Just Reversal.

Looking at other trees, one can assume that it only has 1 origin point, just like the others; that would be Dex Up 1.
S-ATK Up 1 and R-ATK Up 1 would be under Dex Up 1.

S-ATK Up line contains Average Stance, Combat, Katana Gear.
Combat has Combat JA Bonus and Combat Finish.
Average Stance has Average Stance Up 1 and Average Stance Critical.
Most likely, Average Stance Up 1 leads into Average Charge Bonus.

R-ATK Up line contains Weak Stance and Short Time. The Dex Up 2 skill is likely in this area as well.
Short Time only has its 2 passives under it, Short Time Up 1 and Short Time Bonus 1.
Weak Stance has Weak Stance Up 1.
Weak Stance Up 1 has (probably) Dex Up 2 and Weak Stance Critical.
Chances are, Dex Up 2 leads into Weak Charge Bonus.[/spoiler-box]

I've already added all the braver skills to OP already.

Vandread

Jul 6, 2013, 07:09 AM

Didn't post it for the skills, posted it for the skilltree make-up for Rien.
Too lazy to go Photoshop and PSD the tree together.

gigawuts

Jul 6, 2013, 07:20 AM

I wonder what average stance is even meant to be. It sounds like just a flat damage boost, a bit lower than weak stance but also more consistent.

While I've been asking for melee bonus damage on weak spots, I'm worried heads will not be counted as weak spots for melee - just for guns - meaning most enemies won't have weak spots melee can make use of. This would essentially make it a wasted 20 sp on everything but bosses and a small handful of enemies, such as king yedes, rongos, gilnas, stuff like that. This is why I always wanted to combine weak bonus and breakable bonus, although I never much expanded on it because it's not like it would be implemented (oh wait).

Interestingly, breakable bonus is on the way for hunter in the form of a 10% damage boost, which is such a useless boost that unless it's directly below fury combo up and we never get more than 10 sp again nobody should get it over fury stance up 2.

UnLucky

Jul 6, 2013, 07:37 AM

Well it'll be more useful for bows, but not entirely worthless for katana or Hu/Fi weapons.

And if the Charge skills work for Techs, Braver could be a good Force sub. 146% from Average Stance and Charge, and 173% in Weak with Charge.

But they probably won't, and Fighter gets Brave/Wise Up 2 anyway.

gigawuts

Jul 6, 2013, 07:39 AM

Yeah, the question on that is when. I'm going to miss chase bind from fighter, but if they get more stance ups soon and chase advance 2 (yes this is listed, yes it's another 40% oh god) it's going to be a serious contender for best melee sub.

And correction, just noticed BreakMaster is actually on Fighter. My mistake.

Vandread

Jul 6, 2013, 07:53 AM

I wonder what average stance is even meant to be. It sounds like just a flat damage boost, a bit lower than weak stance but also more consistent.
I'm thinking it's just intended like Fury Stance without a drawback.

Weak Stance I believe is part of the RATK side of the skilltree. Trash is something that has weak spots mostly just for RATK based attacks as you pointed out.
So, probably, Bravers with a bow as main weapon can run Weak Stance almost exclusively, while Bravers with a katana as main weapon are likely to run Average Stance almost exclusively.

You'd probably end up using both on bosses regardless of your main weapon type, I guess.

I've been playing around a bit with the skilltree how I think it's going to be (few posts back has it in text form), and I have to say I can kinda see how it's for both new and expert players. Sort of. Maybe not in terms of skilltree design, but how/when the skills are used.

gigawuts

Jul 6, 2013, 08:03 AM

Yeah, a boost like Fury Stance - except the penalty is not having the higher damage of Weak Stance on weak points.

This is important. Why? Because the bonuses are not actually that high. In contrast, on hunter you not only have an actual penalty on your stances but you also have to forego the other stance's bonuses. The penalty has been reduced to near insignificance after the change to % bonuses, but it's still there.

Yeah, I agree on the placement. It sounds like these are stances meant for each side of the tree, and also meant to work with the other side's weapon but not to the degree that it benefits its own intended weapon. This is actually exactly what I asked for. This and 90% of everything I've ever asked for is on that skill list. This is getting spooky.

Coatl

Jul 6, 2013, 09:03 AM

All the races when maining BR seem to be able to wear at least one *10 armor.

EDIT: Er..dewmans gonna have a problem equipping the *10 units. >_>
EDIT2: Dewmans can't equip any *10 units if maining BR lol.

Z-0

Jul 6, 2013, 09:51 AM

Good job I kept all of my wings!

ShinMaruku

Jul 6, 2013, 12:08 PM

Wait whats wrong with limit break?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XrgU0o_KSaA

Zenobia

Jul 6, 2013, 03:44 PM

Coatl

Jul 6, 2013, 10:29 PM

Well they just can't equip the *10 units that require base def, but any dex units they'll be able to wear. It goes like this:

Male cast and male humans can equip the *10 Ragne set when going BR/HU.
Female casts and male newmans can equip the *10 vardha set when going BR/RA.
Female humans and female newmans can equip the *10 Banther set when going BR/FO.

And dewmans are just out of luck.

gigawuts

Jul 6, 2013, 10:33 PM

My old delphinus still has 40 sdef. I ain't even mad (Unless that's somehow not enough for spikes, in which case the rage is on).

Z-0

Jul 6, 2013, 10:38 PM

Top-tier spikes, it's not enough (473 in respective defense at 60/60, they need 545). The tier below that (the A set), they have enough though.

Dot C is also available.

UnLucky

Jul 6, 2013, 10:55 PM

The 480 ones are better, they just cost Excubes.

Rien

Jul 6, 2013, 11:46 PM

I just obtained the last Falz Elder unit. Now I can have a full Falz Set for my dewman.

Now THIS will be interesting.

serenade

Jul 6, 2013, 11:50 PM

I just obtained the last Falz Elder unit. Now I can have a full Falz Set for my dewman.

Now THIS will be interesting.

glass cannon just got glassy....er?

Coatl

Jul 7, 2013, 12:31 AM

More like glass toothpic. 3:

SakoHaruo

Jul 7, 2013, 12:37 AM

Braver is looking like a one weapon class. so many skills, not enough SP to max them out.

Skill tree theory anyone?

Rien

Jul 7, 2013, 12:44 AM

A sample BR build for Katana main:

[spoiler-box]Step Tree:

Step Advance 3
Step Attack 1
Snatch Step 1
Just Reversal 1
Just Reversal Bonus 10

Step Tree Total: 16 SP

Main (Average) Tree:
Dex Up 1 3
S-atk Up 1 5
Average Stance 10
Average Stance Up 1 10

Main Tree Total: 28 SP

Katana Tree:

Katana Gear 1
Combat 10
Combat JA Bonus 5
Combat Finish 10

Katana Tree Total: 26 SP

Total: 70 SP. Forfeits Mag skill and 10* Rare Mastery.[/spoiler-box]

BR Build for Bow main:

[spoiler-box]Step Tree:

Step Advance 3
Step Attack 1
Just Reversal 1
Just Reversal Bonus 10

Step Tree Total: 15 SP

Main (Weak) Tree:

R-atk Up 1 5
Weak Stance 10
Weak Stance Up 1 10
Weak Charge Bonus 5

Main Tree Total: 30 sp (Weak Charge Bonus not maxed)

Short Time Tree:

Short Time 10
Short Time Bonus 1 10
Short Time Up 1 5

Short Time Total: 25 SP

Total: 70 SP. Forfeits max Weak Charge Bonus (attack power bonus for FirearmInstant). Also forfeits Mag and 10* rare mastery.[/spoiler-box]

Mag skill seems to convert some of the mag's S-attack and R-attack into a DEX bonus for you.

30% at level 1, 50% at level 5 (max). So long as your mag's s or r attack exceed 100 (extremely likely), this skill at level 1 will be stronger than 10* rare mastery.

In the sample builds you can see that I have forfeited the mag skill both times because we don't know how large of a bonus DEX gives to Braver Damage yet. Note that these trees also assume that you require level 5 s/r-attack for the next skill. The rest will be maxed, so there is no point considering the pre requisites.

You can decide to forfeit Just Reversal Bonus (seems to recovers 20% hp when executing Just Reversal) for more SP, but I believe it might be a worthy investment. A lot of people (which may or may not include you) believe otherwise.

SakoHaruo

Jul 7, 2013, 01:20 AM

Hm, I'm hoping Snatch Step isn't place in the same bracket as the other step skill. I am someone who loves playing the glass cannon and could care less about any recovery or defense skill unless it's a counter bow. Once you learn how enemies move around you wont need something like JRB because you wont get hit. with that said, if Snatch Step is in a different bracket I could use skill points on my subclass for step and save those 14 points that you spent on Braver step. Then you'd have enough points to get Braver Mag, Rare Mastery, etc

Rien

Jul 7, 2013, 01:28 AM

Snatch Step appears to be Katana only. You also require Step advance 3 to get it... Bow DOES have Step Attack though, so you are required to either main HU or FI.

So if you main bow you can forfeit all those skills for 15 sp.

Your tree will look like this:

[spoiler-box]Main (Weak) Tree:

R-atk Up 1 5
Weak Stance 10
Weak Stance Up 1 10
Weak Charge Bonus 10

Main Tree Total: 35 SP

Short Time Tree:

Short Time 10
Short Time Bonus 1 10
Short Time Up 1 5

Short Time Total: 25 SP

Misc. Skills:

10* Rare Mastery 1
Braver Mag 5

Misc. Skill Total: 6

Total: 66 SP. You can save the remainder for new skills like Victim.[/spoiler-box]

SakoHaruo

Jul 7, 2013, 01:40 AM

Ah, ok. So it's been confirmed that Snatch Step is in the same bracket as the other step skills. Dammit T_T

gigawuts

Jul 7, 2013, 07:39 AM

Braver is looking like a one weapon class. so many skills, not enough SP to max them out.

Skill tree theory anyone?

It's more like...hm. I guess it's like a hunter that gets only one gear. The other two weapons will still be decently good, but they won't have the benefit of their gear.

Braver's stances will effect all damage type - even weak stance (yes yes yes). They'll effect their main weapon to stronger degrees, though, and I'm betting they'll be deep enough in their sides of the tree that maxing them isn't really possible.

So the result of that is you'll have a stance that benefits your weapon of choice to a strong degree, and benefits your other weapon but to a lesser degree. For comparison, weak stance has a higher bonus than average stance, but average stance works on all parts of an enemy (and weak stance may not benefit striking damage against headshots on trash mobs, just weak points they can gain bonus damage on like cores, rongo bellies, etc.).

Zenobia

Jul 7, 2013, 07:46 AM

Yeah I only saw Katana Gear in there kinda wish we had a bullet bow gear to would have been awesome. Finding out that it will def benefit all weps to a certain degree was kinda cool, but also something to keep in mind when putting in sp. Sometimes not maxing a skill is a good call and I may not know how Bravers ST will be, but I can probably say that I might not max some of these just to get the important ones. Again though all dependent on that tree layout.

gigawuts

Jul 7, 2013, 07:55 AM

Zenobia

Jul 7, 2013, 07:58 AM

I'm concerned with how SP intensive each weapon will be. I don't want this to be hunter + ranger in the same tree again. Hunter can't get damage and utility/support/defense, it has to pick. But ranger? Its utility is its damage, and its defense is built into the weapons in the form of ranges outside of enemy attack range.

I'm worried by the number of skills I see on braver that seem to be meant for katanas. Combat is broken up into 3 skills, but then so is average stance. That's 50-60 SP (50 if you skip on the crit skill) for those two things alone.

Now I understand that when you JG with Katana you are auto granted a crit buff. Now we always talked about not needing crit skills, but my main concern is if Katana gives better crit multipliers than 'm thinking of. In that case maybe it might be worth idk.

My main worry is basically what if Katana does good in the crit category better than HU or FI could.

gigawuts

Jul 7, 2013, 08:01 AM

I'm really interested in how the class will be with crits. Especially when you look at all of the skills that convert dex into atk...

Zenobia

Jul 7, 2013, 08:09 AM

My point exactly

gigawuts

Jul 7, 2013, 08:14 AM

Well, what we want is classes that give you a different selection of options for maining/subbing, and with braver we'll finally have another option for subbing on hunter and fighter that won't massively gimp our damage.

But...at the same time we don't want they splitting up vital skills between classes. We shouldn't have the only true mobility option on one class, and 2x damage on the other. Look at fighter's subbing options with this, judging by these skills. You can double your damage or you can pick braver. Whatever braver offers, unless it's 2x damage...I can't imagine it being better than HU unless all of those katana skills work with all melee weapons, which I sincerely doubt they'll allow. This is a case of poor inter-class balance. Independently they may be balanced, but compared to eachother not so much. The same issue arises with HU vs. GU for ranger subs, and to a lesser degree RA vs. HU for gunner subs (HU offers multipliers that always work, while RA offers comparable multipliers some of the time but also weak bullet).

Zenobia

Jul 7, 2013, 08:26 AM

The more and more I think about it Braver the more I consider it to be a Syphon class draining class. Being able to put outs its own and skills damage while sucking up everything else just more effectively.

Xaelouse

Jul 7, 2013, 08:28 AM

This goes into question just how good Combat or Short Time will be to make up for some loss in damage. But then, FI has stuff like Limit Break to completely wreck a downed boss

gigawuts

Jul 7, 2013, 08:32 AM

Can someone explain what limit break is? I don't have a freaking clue, and google isn't providing much info since it's mixed in with a whole bunch of other stuff from PSU that I'm not familiar with.

Zenobia

Jul 7, 2013, 08:38 AM

Can someone explain what limit break is? I don't have a freaking clue, and google isn't providing much info since it's mixed in with a whole bunch of other stuff from PSU that I'm not familiar with.

I dunno but if im looking at it correctly its like a hp draining skill stance giving you a huge damage boost but you lose hp in exchange. This is only viable outcome I came to I mean look at the damage gains upon +10.

gigawuts

Jul 7, 2013, 08:40 AM

Zenobia

Jul 7, 2013, 08:42 AM

Yeah I dun trust it cause right now I dunno if those stat gains are % based or raw damage based so in all honesty its anyone's guess if its % based then holyfuck sega inb4 sega players ask for a nerf lol.

gigawuts

Jul 7, 2013, 08:44 AM

I hope it's not percent based, oh good god.

Rien

Jul 7, 2013, 10:25 AM

I'm concerned with how SP intensive each weapon will be. I don't want this to be hunter + ranger in the same tree again. Hunter can't get damage and utility/support/defense, it has to pick. But ranger? Its utility is its damage, and its defense is built into the weapons in the form of ranges outside of enemy attack range.

I'm worried by the number of skills I see on braver that seem to be meant for katanas. Combat is broken up into 3 skills, but then so is average stance. That's 50-60 SP (50 if you skip on the crit skill) for those two things alone, plus all the prerequisites we can expect and other utility skills we're looking at hitting 70 SP really freaking fast. The bows just have Weak Stance for 20-30, and not much else. Everything else is up for grabs.

Bows require Short Time, which bsically boosts power of charged attacks + reduces charge time. Since bow attacks/pas are mostly charged (with one stage iirc), you do need them.

But, bottom line, you can't hybrid at all. You either pick weapon + it's respective stance, pick the two stance lines or pick two weapon lines (worst choice ever)

I hope it's not percent based, oh good god.

"StrikeStance" is a static buff, not percentage buff. It's a straight up +600 att

Xaelouse

Jul 7, 2013, 10:27 AM

That's what I figured by the stats, but they didn't really look too amazing. With the way people are talking about it it must have been pretty powerful in the past though, so either I'm missing something or they heavily gimped it. 600 atk, yeah it sounds nice at first, but look at photon flare. That would still be shit no matter how long it lasted, and it offers a whole bunch of atk too.

if the 30 second cooldown in Limit Break still mains intact, I wont complain. Also the problem with photon flare is that the only % boosters on its path were for the worst element in the game. Limit Break will have no such problem, although chances are you wont have the benefit of one of the stance up 2s. I really hope it isn't below slayers though

Omega-z

Jul 7, 2013, 02:51 PM

Zenobia

Jul 7, 2013, 02:53 PM

gigawuts - It sound's like Revenge Blaster from PSU day's. Now this is huge if it is true of what it sound's like having lost hp turned into Damage. You can get 10K+ output with it back in PSU day's. The down side was you were low in life but that didn't matter. There should be some video's of TA'ing with RB from PSU.

AHA so I knew it was similar to that move if it is then oh man we got ourselves a heavy hitting PA. Who cares about hp anyway its all about offense baby!

gigawuts

Jul 7, 2013, 03:30 PM

600 atk for 30 seconds is bad

600 atk per 1% hp you've lost for 30 seconds is...lol

UnLucky

Jul 7, 2013, 11:06 PM

I'm really interested in how the class will be with crits. Especially when you look at all of the skills that convert dex into atk...
Crits have nothing to do with Dex, though, so you'd still want to prioritize pure Atk even if you had the Crit skills. Max damage hits don't count as crits, even if they're the exact same value.

10 SP to get 25% of your Dex as Atk? Might as well split any extra Dex into S-Atk and R-Atk instead if you really wanted to be hybrid, it's still over twice as good that way.

Critical Bonus seems to give you PP back on crits, but the only way to spec for crits is to get the Stance Crit skills (or Shifta Crit). And if you max out your crit rate through skills, extra Dex is meaningless since it indirectly reduces your crit damage from the Atk stats you could have had instead.

gigawuts

Jul 7, 2013, 11:12 PM

I didn't say it would be optimal. I'm also really interested in the new wand skills, and I'm not really thinking that'll be a match for force's damage options.

There's a line where interesting mechanics outweigh optimum performance for me. I'm hoping the crit and dex skills are on the side of that line where I'll like them.

UnLucky

Jul 7, 2013, 11:28 PM

Was hoping Braver would have some sort of crit damage skill, possibly tying it to your Dex somehow. Then suddenly all the crit skills have meaning over night.

Techer's cool new skills all seem to have cooldowns, like Main Wand 30s/45s at lv10, TB PP Save, and PPC damage buffs. But then it gets EWH2 while Fighter gets more Stance Ups so Fo/Fi is still way stronger. And Te/Fi still doesn't get any PP regen at all (Crazy Heart maybe?).

Rien

Jul 8, 2013, 03:53 AM

It might actually have a critical damage skill, considering the stance crit skills uses "CriticalInstant" instead of "Critical".

On a side note, Fighters get "Air Strike", boosting damage while they are in the air. I'm not entirely sure why Gunners don't get this.

UnLucky

Jul 8, 2013, 04:29 AM

Oh that's true, even Brave/Wise Crit 2 use the new CriticalInstant stat. Hm...

Rien

Jul 8, 2013, 04:58 AM

Okay, looking at the skill again, this is exactly what Limit Break does:

-Lasts for max of 30 seconds
-Cooldown of 60 seconds
-Increases S-attack by max of 600.
-Sacrifices 99% of your max hp. This max hp reduction works exactly like Photon Flare.

I'm not entirely sure if this is worth it, even for a glass cannon.

UnLucky

Jul 8, 2013, 05:25 AM

No see, it works perfectly with Half and Deadline Slayer for an extra 200 S-Atk

Xaelouse

Jul 8, 2013, 05:44 AM

Lets not forget this is stacking upon Fighter's giant % boosts, but this brings into question where the skill will be placed on the tree. Towards the very bottom and grouped with the slayer skills wouldn't make it so worth it since stance up 2s would also be worth maxing.

Kondibon

Jul 8, 2013, 05:53 AM

No see, it works perfectly with Half and Deadline Slayer for an extra 200 S-Atk

Now if only it WAS a percent bonus instead of a flat one.

Rien

Jul 8, 2013, 06:41 AM

No see, it works perfectly with Half and Deadline Slayer for an extra 200 S-Atk

An extremely specific niche role... which a dewman Braver is also supposed to fill.

Unless we do BR/FI Dewmen...

gigawuts

Jul 8, 2013, 07:38 AM

That sounds AWFUL

But, if it heals you afterwards it might be nice.

I mean, you're left pretty vulnerable having to activate it every 30 seconds, and that's 30 SP minimum we're looking at just to get half&deadline slayer + limit break. It better give you more than just 800 satk that pulls away from multiplier skills. Which would you use this with? Brave or wise stance? Because you'll have to pick one to max out.

LonelyGaruga

Jul 8, 2013, 09:14 AM

If it works like Photon Flare, as it was stated to, then yeah, the Fighter's HP should restore itself unless you get healed or take damage during that time frame.

Zenobia

Jul 8, 2013, 09:18 AM

I dunno 99% of you hp for a 600 raw s atk gain seems optional to me its one of those" You can either get it or not" skills.

Guess you can say Limit Break is arguable skill.

@Lonely you cannot heal the hp reduction taken from you with photon flare as a FO it will only come back after the skill is done.

LonelyGaruga

Jul 8, 2013, 12:04 PM

@Lonely you cannot heal the hp reduction taken from you with photon flare as a FO it will only come back after the skill is done.

I did not say you could. If you get healed while the skill is active, the HP won't come back.

Zenobia

Jul 8, 2013, 12:14 PM

I did not say you could. If you get healed while the skill is active, the HP won't come back.

You just said the fighters hp should come back unless you get healed or take damage during the times frame. Unless it was worded in a cryptic way I can see why I mis understood.

LonelyGaruga

Jul 8, 2013, 12:33 PM

gigawuts

Jul 8, 2013, 12:34 PM

The real question is if it heals back the full amount it removes, even if you had less than what it removed.

So for photon flare, it removes 20% hp right? What if you're at 15% hp? It should take you down to 1 hp, correct? Would it then heal you back up to 1 + 20%?

Because if that's what happens, then this became interesting.

LonelyGaruga

Jul 8, 2013, 12:36 PM

The reduction is based on the player's max HP, not their current HP. If someone is at 15%, they will be at 15% still, and won't gain any HP back from the effect.

gigawuts

Jul 8, 2013, 12:38 PM

I see. What if they're at 85% hp? They're taken down to 80%, then healed back to 85%?

Xaeris

Jul 8, 2013, 12:41 PM

In no scenario would Photon Flare heal you. If you use it at 85/100 HP, you'll have 85/85 HP until it wears off, when you'll then have 85/100. If you've ever received Injury from Falz Hunar, it's exactly like that.

gigawuts

Jul 8, 2013, 12:43 PM

So then it doesn't return the HP it clips off, it just removes 20% and the only way to get it back is to wait until it wears off and heal yourself?

LonelyGaruga

Jul 8, 2013, 12:48 PM

It returns the HP it clips off, but only if you don't get hit or healed during the time frame that it's active. Damage and healing effects will prevent the HP removed from Photon Flare from restoring itself after it wears off.

gigawuts

Jul 8, 2013, 12:54 PM

Thanks for clarifying, that's what I wanted to know. So it'll restore the health that it steals if you evade attacks, which you'll want to do at 1% HP no matter what. Sounds like a more fitting mechanic for limit break than photon flare. Now I just hope they add some more bonuses to it.

I did see HalflineAbnormal, which showed a 10% boost to Abnormal something or other. It looked like a bonus to SE application rates, given that Chase Bind and Chase Advance are referred to as AbnormalBind and AbnormalAdvance. The problem there is we're looking at needing to dig deep into chase AND the limit break skills, plus slayer, and this is going to add up to a lot of SP you can't spend on the stances - which is where the real damage comes from.

That and it's just a measly 10% bonus, which a lot of new incoming skills are at this point. Hopefully they adjust some skills as needed, because 10% to SE rates only when you're below 50% hp for 10 sp is horrible. I wouldn't even spend 10 sp on 20% boost at any level of health.

LonelyGaruga

Jul 8, 2013, 01:03 PM

Oh yeah, Halfline Slayer and Deadline Slayer shouldn't work with Sacrifice if it works like Photon Flare/PP Convert. The game will treat the 1% HP that remains after using Sacrifice as the maximum HP that the player can have, so they'll be at 100% HP still. Halfline Slayer and Deadline Slayer won't trigger unless you can reduce your HP even further, but getting hit would be fatal, and any amount of damage would prevent you from getting your health back once Sacrifice ends. If it really works like Photon Flare, Sacrifice has zero compatibility with Halfline Slayer and Deadline Slayer, unless those skills ignore the altered max HP from Sacrifice. I don't believe they would, but until testing is done, I wouldn't say that they can't do that.

UnLucky

Jul 8, 2013, 01:47 PM

Oh, was Photon Flare changed? I looked up a video since I never saw it myself, but it clipped off a portion of the player's health on activation, where they stayed at 70/100 for the entire fight.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JogLmIoELH0

Uploaded 9 months ago, so yeah. If Limit Break worked like that, it would definitely stack with the Slayer skills.

As for Halfline Abnormal, I have no idea. It boosts "AbnormalRate" the same thing that the new Photon Flare Tactics increases. But all the tech SE boosting skills use "ConditionRate." (actually every status inflicting skill uses "ConditionRate" like Chase Bind and traps)

Z-0

Jul 8, 2013, 01:51 PM

Abnormal Advance is Chase Advance.

I am assuming that Halfline Abnormal increases your chance of inflicting a Status Effect when either you or the enemy is under 50% HP.

LonelyGaruga

Jul 8, 2013, 01:57 PM

@UnLucky: That person got hit while Photon Flare was active, so it wouldn't have given the health back after it ended.

UnLucky

Jul 8, 2013, 01:59 PM

Abnormal Advance is Chase Advance.

I am assuming that Halfline Abnormal increases your chance of inflicting a Status Effect when either you or the enemy is under 50% HP.
And Abnormal Bind is Chase Bind, but that uses Condition Rate. Hm, I'm thinking "Condition" is for a single effect, but "Abnormal" is them all in general.

@UnLucky: That person got hit while Photon Flare was active, so it wouldn't have given the health back after it ended.
Ah yes, but still it doesn't count as a lower max HP, even temporarily, since their HP is clearly missing.

gigawuts

Jul 8, 2013, 02:02 PM

And Abnormal Bind is Chase Bind, but that uses Condition Rate. Hm, I'm thinking "Condition" is for a single effect, but "Abnormal" is them all in general.

This is my thought as well. But you might be right, it might be for something else. I'm not sure what, though.

I'd really like a skill that activates Chase skills when you are inflicted with an SE. Hopefully not a new series of skills, too. It should be a 1 SP skill at the end of the chase skill branch, a reward for going down that path.

Yes I really just want 40% bonus damage any time I'm dumb enough to get hit by a trap or autorun through fire at the cost of a mere 1 sp.

UnLucky

Jul 8, 2013, 02:03 PM

Fighter OP in Caves, nerf plz

gigawuts

Jul 8, 2013, 02:04 PM

OMG SEGA NERF SOL ATOMIZERS THE IDIOT MPA PUGS KEEP TROLLING ME

Also, I can imagine it now: A bug where it only applies to freeze, and nothing else.

UnLucky

Jul 8, 2013, 02:11 PM

That would just be too funny if Gunner got Perfect Keeper 2 and the Fighters kept spreading their Burn to them so they spam Sols in retaliation.

gigawuts

Jul 8, 2013, 02:13 PM

Then we'd get an active skill that inflicts Burn on yourself.

And then I'd be wondering why I'm not just playing Borderlands 2 where all this shit was done way better on that new psycho class. A whole freaking tree dedicated to setting yourself on fire and getting tons of bonuses for it.

UnLucky

Jul 8, 2013, 02:20 PM

Active skill that sets you and surrounding enemies on fire.
Passive skill that increases your damage while on fire.
Passive skill that increases burn spread rate+range.
Passive skill that gives you a damage boost on burning enemies.
Passive skill that reduces your own burn tick damage.
Passive skill that gives you a damage boost when at low HP.

gigawuts

Jul 8, 2013, 02:22 PM

Now you're just describing what Techer should have been. I'd play that. I'd play that hard.

Zenobia

Jul 8, 2013, 03:33 PM

Photon Flare reduces a player's max HP temporarily. You can't heal back the HP lost from it because, as far as the game is concerned, you're still at max HP. You can still be healed in this time frame, but no HP will be recovered unless damage was taken while Photon Flare is active. There's no reason to think it's possible to heal back HP lost from Photon Flare while it is active with knowledge of how it works, so I do not understand why you're accusing me of saying that Sacrifice, which should work the same way, would allow for the HP "lost" to be healed back when all it does is temporarily reduce your max HP.

Never said I was accusing you don't put word in my mouth just said you worded kinda cryptically. The way you said it made it sound like is if you used it and your hp was reduced because of the skill then a FO could just heal you while you're still using photon flare.

Now that you gave it more in detail makes more sense now.

LonelyGaruga

Jul 8, 2013, 04:43 PM

Ah yes, but still it doesn't count as a lower max HP, even temporarily, since their HP is clearly missing.

That did have me uncertain. I was thinking that, at the time, Photon Flare may simply not have provided any visual indication of the max HP reduction. As far as I know, Photon Flare was always a temporary HP reduction, and that video indicates that either there was no visual for the reduction, or the HP was flat out subtracted from the player's health. If the latter, players would be able to simply heal off the HP lost from Photon Flare after triggering it, making this downside kind of moot, so I'm inclined to believe that it simply had no visual indication of their max HP being reduced.

The way you said it made it sound like is if you used it and your hp was reduced because of the skill then a FO could just heal you while you're still using photon flare.

1) I said nothing about a Force.
2) I said nothing about healing actually recovering health.
3) It makes no sense to believe that's what I was talking about if you knew how Photon Flare worked.

Zenobia

Jul 8, 2013, 04:51 PM

1) I said nothing about a Force.
2) I said nothing about healing actually recovering health.
3) It makes no sense to believe that's what I was talking about if you knew how Photon Flare worked.

1: You said if it worked like photon flare even going as far as saying IF you get healed implying a force would be around to heal you this also implies to you number 2 comment so imma skip that.

3: I know about photon flare tyvm.

Again your post was just cryptic that is all.

gigawuts

Jul 8, 2013, 04:52 PM

There's any number of ways they could program it so that it counts one way for bonuses but is shown graphically another way. We can't really assume anything with regards to halfline and deadline skills until it comes out. Hell, they may even change how it works for this release just to make sure they do work, even if they wouldn't right now.

UnLucky

Jul 8, 2013, 04:57 PM

Funny it's Zenobia calling someone out on being cryptic. But yeah, getting healed carries the connotation that your health is restored.

It would be clearer if you had said "try to heal" or mention that you can only heal up to your lower max HP, but in doing so prevents the skill from reverting your HP back to your actual max HP once it's over.

Actually here's another video I found:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nKzWdWG8xWk

In it you can see a Force using Photon Flare starting from less than max HP. Once the duration elapses, their HP returns to exactly the amount they had when they activated the skill.

Now to look for someone trying to heal themself during the thing.

Zenobia

Jul 8, 2013, 05:05 PM

Oh hush Unlucky you're pretty brain dead yourself 8D. You have your moments.

BlankM

Jul 8, 2013, 05:34 PM

So what other skills seem relevant for Braver?

I'm thinking of investing in an elder set for Br/Ra or Br/Hu with gunslash. Stigma also seems like a good affix since they convert dex into damage.

So many wild cards but I'm trying to think of how they might fit into the current meta. With our current tools like additional bullet.

LonelyGaruga

Jul 8, 2013, 06:44 PM

1: You said if it worked like photon flare even going as far as saying IF you get healed implying a force would be around to heal you

Mono/Di/Trimates, Mag abilities, HP draining effects, those healing devices stationed near boss arenas...a Force is not necessary to have access to healing.

3: I know about photon flare tyvm.

So you were assuming I didn't. OK then.

But yeah, getting healed carries the connotation that your health is restored.

It would be clearer if you had said "try to heal" or mention that you can only heal up to your lower max HP, but in doing so prevents the skill from reverting your HP back to your actual max HP once it's over.

Honestly, I thought it would have been a logical connection to make given the information provided, but evidently not. I assumed that I wouldn't be misinterpreted based on the knowledge that the implication of my post was a known impossibility, and that I couldn't be talking about healing HP "lost" during Photon Flare, and thus was not talking about actual restoration of HP, but I was mistaken. For that, I apologize.

Actually here's another video I found:
PSO2 Damage Test - YouTube (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nKzWdWG8xWk)

In it you can see a Force using Photon Flare starting from less than max HP. Once the duration elapses, their HP returns to exactly the amount they had when they activated the skill.

OK, yeah, they definitely did some visual touching up since then. Just look at that person's PP gauge whenever they use a tech. Nowadays, the PP is instantly subtracted instead of having the consumed portion change color before emptying. It looks pretty sloppy, glad they changed that. I'm inclined to believe Photon Flare has undergone visual changes and has the same visual indication as PP Convert, but I can't test that right now without expending a skill tree reset ticket, and I don't have any to spare right now. All of my posts talking about Photon Flare have been under the assumption that it works identically to PP Convert (besides the obvious difference between the beneficial effects). If it does function differently, then things change.

Dark Emerald EXE

Jul 8, 2013, 08:08 PM

Hmmm?
BR/RA wouldn't be able to equip vardha unit?
Or suppose the same for BR/HU and Ragne
And just for example purpose I'll just say dewman

Zenobia

Jul 9, 2013, 02:19 AM

My only concern now is what would be the perfect mag build for this Race even with the skills it has and what we know. I dunno if doing a split in between S atk and R atk is viable. I would most likely spec into s atk around the 100+ then maybe spec the last 75 into R atk?

Mehh if anything I might just go all S atk

Rien

Jul 9, 2013, 02:55 AM

My only concern now is what would be the perfect mag build for this Class even with the skills it has and what we know. I dunno if doign a split in between S atk and R atk is viable. I would most likely spec into s atk around the 100+ then maybe spec the last 75 into R atk?

Mehh if anything I might just go all S atk
What we do know about the class is that you can't spec into both weapons unless you decide to ignore stances.

Vandread

Jul 9, 2013, 04:29 AM

Hmmm?
BR/RA wouldn't be able to equip vardha unit?
Or suppose the same for BR/HU and Ragne
And just for example purpose I'll just say dewman

Excel file I quickly botched up for stat calculation:
http://www.sendspace.com/file/wgwpkz

Doesn't take mag or skilltree into account.

For Braver/Hunters, you'd need an SDEF-oriented race-gender combination to reach the required amount of SDEF for Ragne, unless pooling in an additional point in SDEF Up 1, which most will have up to lvl3 to reach Just Guard.

I'm betting no Fighter has SDEF-Up, so you would need an SDEF-oriented race-gender combination for Ragne as a Braver/Fighter.

Since Techer has no SDEF-Up, you would need an SDEF-oriented race-gender combination in order to equip Ragne as a Braver/Techer.

Seeing the additions made to Ranger's skilltree, it could be that some Braver/Rangers have some points in RDEF up, which would let them equip Vardha units. Otherwise, you would need an RDEF-oriented race-gender combination.

If the Gunner has Attack PP Restorate, Braver/Gunners would be able to equip Vardha units since RDEF up is a pre-requisite skill.

Braver/Force can only reach the required TDEF for Snow units if it's a TDEF oriented race-gender combination. I highly doubt any Force has TDEF Up on the skilltree.

Braver/Techer can only reach the required TDEF for Snow units if it's a TDEF oriented race-gender combination and having PP Convert.

SDEF oriented race-gender combinations: Mar, Cast.
RDEF oriented race-gender combinations: Newm, Caseal.
TDEF oriented race-gender combinations: Marl, Newearl.

Meji

Jul 9, 2013, 04:45 AM

Excel file I quickly botched up for stat calculation:
http://www.sendspace.com/file/wgwpkz
Awesome! Thanks a bunch for this!

Zenobia

Jul 9, 2013, 06:54 AM

Excel file I quickly botched up for stat calculation:
http://www.sendspace.com/file/wgwpkz

Doesn't take mag or skilltree into account.

For Braver/Hunters, you'd need an SDEF-oriented race-gender combination to reach the required amount of SDEF for Ragne, unless pooling in an additional point in SDEF Up 1, which most will have up to lvl3 to reach Just Guard.

I'm betting no Fighter has SDEF-Up, so you would need an SDEF-oriented race-gender combination for Ragne as a Braver/Fighter.

Since Techer has no SDEF-Up, you would need an SDEF-oriented race-gender combination in order to equip Ragne as a Braver/Techer.

Seeing the additions made to Ranger's skilltree, it could be that some Braver/Rangers have some points in RDEF up, which would let them equip Vardha units. Otherwise, you would need an RDEF-oriented race-gender combination.

If the Gunner has Attack PP Restorate, Braver/Gunners would be able to equip Vardha units since RDEF up is a pre-requisite skill.

Braver/Force can only reach the required TDEF for Snow units if it's a TDEF oriented race-gender combination. I highly doubt any Force has TDEF Up on the skilltree.

Braver/Techer can only reach the required TDEF for Snow units if it's a TDEF oriented race-gender combination and having PP Convert.

SDEF oriented race-gender combinations: Mar, Cast.
RDEF oriented race-gender combinations: Newm, Caseal.
TDEF oriented race-gender combinations: Marl, Newearl.

So in a nutshell Duman can't wear any 10* units unless it spec into S def, R def or T def. Glad I have those purple wing units then.

Arialle

Jul 10, 2013, 10:50 PM

should my units be split among satk / ratk or focus only on either satk or ratk if lets say im going braver/hunter

Mega Ultra Chicken

Jul 11, 2013, 01:59 AM

should my units be split among satk / ratk or focus only on either satk or ratk if lets say im going braver/hunter That's actually what I would like to know... Or maybe not just units, but Braver Mags as well. Should a Braver's Mag focus on S-ATK or R-ATK, or would it be better to split the two stats more evenly? Would optimal performance with a Braver require the player to focus on one of the two weapon types, or would knowing when to switch between the two (or three) weapon types play a key role in the Braver's gameplay?

Also keep in mind that BR/HU's Fury Stance will increase Bow damage too.

Shinamori

Jul 11, 2013, 02:00 AM

There's apparently a scan of the Braver skill tree on PSO2 Uploader. I have Comcast, so I can't see it.

Gardios

Jul 11, 2013, 03:27 AM

[SPOILER-BOX]http://i.imgur.com/mxYA7rw.jpg[/SPOILER-BOX]

musicmf

Jul 11, 2013, 03:37 AM

[SPOILER-BOX]http://i.imgur.com/mxYA7rw.jpg[/SPOILER-BOX]

(Left Side)
Dex Up 1
S-ATK Up 1
R-ATK Up 1
Average Stance
Average S Up
Average S Critical
Average S Charge
Katana Combat
Combat JA Bonus
Combat Finish
Katana Gear
Rapid Shoot
Rapid Shoot Up
Rapid Shoot Mastery

(Right Side)
Weak Stance
Weak Stance Up
Dex Up 2
Weak Stance Critical
Weak Stance Charge

Step
Step Advance
Snatch Step
Step Attack
Just Reversal
J Reversal Cover

Rare Mastery Braver
Braver Mag
I don't actually know Braver skill names well, so if I errored... oops XD;
(Since I don't recall ever seeing "Rapid Shoot" before... maybe I just didn't pay attention though)

I would have to imagine "S" is short for Stance, "J" for Just, and　"カバー" means Cover, short for Recover.

-----------

I also have no idea if this (http://www.pso2-uploader.info/uploda/src/up61487.jpg) image here is guessing the skill level pre-reqs, or if there's a source out there for them.... but;
[SPOILER-BOX]
Braver Mag (#/5)

Rare Mastery Braver (#/10)

Step (1/1) -> Step Advance (3/10) -> Step Attack (1/1) -> Just Reversal (1/1) -> Reversal Cover (#/5)
-> Snatch Step (#/1)

Dex Up (1/10) -> Katana Gear (#/10)
Dex Up (3/10) -> S-ATK Up (#/10)
-> R-ATK Up (#/10)
-> Rapid Shoot (5/10) -> Rapid Shoot Up (#/5)
-> Rapid Shoot Mastery (#/10)
-> Katana Combat (5/10) -> Combat JA Bonus (#/10)
-> Combat Finish (#/5)
Dex Up (5/10) -> Average Stance (5/10) -> Average Stance Up (5/10) -> Average S Critical (5/10) -> Average S Charge (#/10)
-> Weak Stance (5/10) -> Weak Stance Up (5/10) -> Weak S Critical (5/10) -> Weak S Charge (#/10)
-> Dex Up 2 (#/10)[/SPOILER-BOX]
Although, that person has Snatch Step in the wrong spot... so yeah. Take it with a grain of salt.

Vandread

Jul 11, 2013, 03:53 AM

@Gardios:
Dang, that's nice. Matches quite well with what I expected from reading the files, for the most part that is.

Not having SATK and RATK Ups as pre-reqs to unlocking the tree further down is nice - I did expect them to have you put points in those. At least now it'd be less points wasted on static gains.

Looks like a really, really, straight-forward tree though.

Zenobia

Jul 11, 2013, 03:57 AM

(Left Side)
Dex Up 1
S-ATK Up 1
R-ATK Up 1
Average Stance
Average S Up
Average S Critical
Average S Charge
Katana Combat
Combat JA Bonus
Combat Finish
Katana Gear
Rapid Shoot
Rapid Shoot Up
Rapid Shoot Mastery

(Right Side)
Weak Stance
Weak Stance Up
Dex Up 2
Weak Stance Critical
Weak Stance Charge

Step
Step Advance
Snatch Step
Step Attack
Just Reversal
J Reversal Cover

Rare Mastery Braver
Braver Mag
I don't actually know Braver skill names well, so if I errored... oops XD;
(Since I don't recall ever seeing "Rapid Shoot" before... maybe I just didn't pay attention though)

I would have to imagine "S" is short for Stance, "J" for Just, and　"カバー" means Cover, short for Recover.

-----------

I also have no idea if this (http://www.pso2-uploader.info/uploda/src/up61487.jpg) image here is guessing the skill level pre-reqs, or if there's a source out there for them.... but;
[SPOILER-BOX]
Braver Mag (#/5)

Rare Mastery Braver (#/10)

Step (1/1) -> Step Advance (3/10) -> Step Attack (1/1) -> Just Reversal (1/1) -> Reversal Cover (#/5)
-> Snatch Step (#/1)

Dex Up (1/10) -> Katana Gear (#/10)
Dex Up (3/10) -> S-ATK Up (#/10)
-> R-ATK Up (#/10)
-> Rapid Shoot (5/10) -> Rapid Shoot Up (#/5)
-> Rapid Shoot Mastery (#/10)
-> Katana Combat (5/10) -> Combat JA Bonus (#/10)
-> Combat Finish (#/5)
Dex Up (5/10) -> Average Stance (5/10) -> Average Stance Up (5/10) -> Average S Critical (5/10) -> Average S Charge (#/10)
-> Weak Stance (5/10) -> Weak Stance Up (5/10) -> Weak S Critical (5/10) -> Weak S Charge (#/10)
-> Dex Up 2 (#/10)[/SPOILER-BOX]
Although, that person has Snatch Step in the wrong spot... so yeah. Take it with a grain of salt.

piggybacking off you real fast

[SPOILER-BOX]http://i.imgur.com/GujlKqJ.jpg (http://imgur.com/GujlKqJ)[/SPOILER-BOX]

there were three pictures on there guess its finally winding down on how the tree is gonna look this is exactly how I pictured it.