On the subject of forces....

[Xria]

First off I will say that after playing Humar to level 100, accompanying my Level 100 RAmar friend, and seeing plenty of other lv 100 forces, I understand that forces just....suck?

I started a force, I'm level 65 now, and It's obvious he will never be anywhere near as useful as my humar or my friend's ranger. EVER. Even with the best equipement, he won't be able to do anything they can't.

Even the highest level spells are just weak, hitting mostly around the 200 mark, but that doesn't touch the 650 splash damage done by a hunter and a sword, or the faster fireing shotguns of the rangers.

Forces have such a low hp and defense, they die in a split second. Attacking with anything in their hands is almost worthless most of the time. That leaves them with spells, which they really can't do better than any of the other classes, they can just cast them for a longer period of time and more frequently because of their ridiculous tp.

But what I'm saying is forces should have had some super-spells that they could use at a higher level to do a hell of a lot more damage than 200. Some spells only a force could use. Some forces can use Megid really good, but it still won't make them anything more than a support character. Even a ranger is better for support.


And now that I said that, I have a question.

Do spells over level 15 exist? I've never seen them. Most of my spells are level 15, and I would love it if I could find better ones, but a lot of people seem to have the opinion that they don't exist any higher than 15.

[Nordramor]

Xria,

You're right, sorta.

Forces can't do nearly the amount of damage that a high level Ranger or Hunter can. The main problem is that Techniques really don't improve in power with MST, unlike weapon damage with improving ATP. The most realistic you can ever expect to get most spells to is 13/14/15 and Grants/Megid are almost never beyond 10 or 11. Adding to this problem is that XXX/Technique units are nearly impossible to find, meaning that your Techniques will hit a point, rather early, where they simply stop improving. To make the overall point simple: Techniques suck in the long run for damaging anything less than 5-6 simultaneous enemies.

Here's the good news: You are a better support character than you give yourself credit for. You can easily use high level Shifta's/Debands/Restas/Anti's, etc, and use them quite often. Oddly enough, the Force's best 'support' skill is RaBarta. Hitting everything with RaBarta 2-3 typicaly ensures that you'll freeze a lot of enemies, making them much easier to kill for the Hunters/Rangers. Lower level characters will especially love you: it lets them kill stuff in the Ruins on V-Hard without constantly dying. Even if RaBarta is doing 0 damage, it still has a chance to freeze nearly everything around you.

At low and mid evels, Forces also can't fight very well. Even with guns, their combat potential with weapons is so bad, its usually better to just spend the time buying more Fluids than plink away at an enemy for minutes with a weapon. This changes however, once you start getting past level 70. At around this point, even FONewmans and FONewearls can start to use weapons with decent success rates. They still can't match Rangers/Hunters, but the gap closes quite notiecably. The best types of weapons for Forces are usually TP-stealing Pistols, Mechaguns, or my all-time favorite, the standard Double Saber. Once I got enough ATP to use a Double Saber, my Fluid consumption dropped to about 1/4 of its previous levels (I had never bothered to use TP stealing weapons before, my ATA was so bad the special attack missed too much). Try a Geist Vulcan if you can get one, or at least find some Mechagun with a +% against whatever it is you're fighting. Some Forces also like to use the Soul Eater if they can get it. Shifta and Deband become necessities at this point, not options. Zalure can help too, but it eats up yet another valuable slot on your already shrinking hotkey list.

Forces are not powerhouses, but they are not boring (unless you require a powerhouse character to stay interested). They also have no problems earning XP, as it is rare that something will be killed without the Force tagging it at least once.

Spells beyond level 15 do not exist to my knowledge.

Nordramor
Nordy!

[JJ]

U should play with me sometime. I put a good name for forces. I hate people that talk crap 'bout them. My Force is lv 90 with 900 something atp with shifta with my soul eater and MST maxing out anytime soon. I can hold my own ground with my force. It all depends on what adjustments you make to your character.

[Xria]

Nord I agree with everything you said, except I think forces are the hardest hitting class when it comes to below level 20. That is, IF they can get ahold of some rafoie/razonde that early. But once they move on to hard mode the other classes just leave them behind.

900 atp is impressive jj....but you still won't have the life or defense to back it up that well. My force is level....68, and it's mst is maxed. I am dissappointed it maxed that fast, with only about 1104 tp.

What I just wish is that forces had some higher spells to burn all that tp on. Some spells the other classes would'nt be able to use because of their lower mst. Lets say there were some level 20 RA spells that could hit around 300+ a pop constantly, now that would put forces up to where they need to be. With those spells they would have the offensive force they need to be equal with the other classes.

[Zephyr]

900 would be more impressive if ot wasn't for the fact that other classes with a shifta and their mag can go beyond 999 since their ATP cap is so much higher... and then the gap is increased even more by the weapon the hunter for example will be using (since other classes can use decent weapons / not just the base versions of various rares). A lvl 100 force with their ATA, ATP, MST, EVP and DEF maxed and with 580 hps, SHIFTA, DEBAND, and ZALURE, a God/Battle and a Soul Eater +35 can solo V.Hard Ruins pretty well though somewhat slowly.

One way a force (or any class for that matter) can do some great damage (to a single target) is with a db's saber with 50% photon affinity versus whatever creature they're fighting. Use it's special attack and keep your TP low... like under 200... use a difluid when you're almost out. I wonder if it's the most damaging weapon attack in the game... probably not, but I've heard hunters can hit for over 1000 each swing. http://www.pso-world.com/images/phpbb/icons/icon_eek.gif

[Dymlos]

Zephyr is correct. A Hunter with a natural 999 ATP will do even MORE damage with shifta on.
So if a Force can deal 300 damage with shifta on, a hunter can deal 500 damage. Add the fact that they have more life, defense, and EVP, they're pretty much unstoppable. Not to mention that with a 50% mechgun, a hunter can deal on average, 1500 damage per heavy hit. Or over 4500 damage per combo.