TE/HU Discussion & Gameplay (video) [Archive]

Zipzo

Jul 3, 2013, 05:56 PM

Hello.

So yesterday I decided I would take some time to make a no damage boss run as TE/HU. It's probably one of my more favorite builds to play simply because of how unique the play style is, it's hard to think that this was how they imagined someone would want to play the Techer...so it's fun in that sense as well.　

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cA39jDmhaD0

ー　This isn't meant to be a masterful display of skill. These are neither my fastest kills, nor my slowest. I am not perfect so there is probably a dopey missed JA here and there, and other kinds of mistakes I have obviously seen and reviewed for myself already.

ー　I am not boasting TE/HU as an optimal spec, I'm just showing how I get along playing as one of my favoured play styles.

The build in the video is here... (http://ryuhiroshi.funpic.de/pso2/skillcalc.php?04eBb3Ikb3Ikb3Ikb3Ikb3Ikb3Ik0lbInqnG KsN6JiGA00000Ib00000ib00000ib00007b000008kbdFHXfdF jqxIkIo0000)

Questions, comments, thoughts, opinions are all appreciated and respected.

Updated with the new full 8 boss video. Skip to 9:28 if you've seen Pt. 1 already.

Zenobia

Jul 3, 2013, 06:21 PM

Zipzo

Jul 3, 2013, 06:28 PM

First off nice runs!

I have been interested in this myself, I would say TE/HU affixes should be Vol Soul, Power 3 and Stamina boost?

Idk what I would put for my 3 affix, but that's what I would lean towards.

At least in my case, as that's what I do, I think that's correct. For runs like these the HP souls/affixes are obviously slightly under optimized but in terms of general play I think that at the very least Vol/Pow III is necessary for the striking boosts.

The only piece of gear that differentiates from this path is my wand, in which I have Gwana Soul instead of Vol Soul.

Simplistics

Jul 3, 2013, 07:21 PM

Mind what if I ask what the first song was?

And I like it, been thinking of trying this class out at some point. It was a good enough inspiration to start one later.

Zipzo

Jul 3, 2013, 07:54 PM

Mind what if I ask what the first song was?

And I like it, been thinking of trying this class out at some point. It was a good enough inspiration to start one later.

Good to hear.

The song is called "Reluctant Heroes" from the Attack on Titan OST released last week.

UnLucky

Jul 3, 2013, 08:44 PM

For Te/Hu, your Striking damage actually has higher multipliers than your Techs, even with EMW. Your wand melee also gets a higher multiplier than the gear explosions, too, so it's not an entirely bad idea to just go pure S-Atk all the way, treating the added explosion as just that: extra damage.

If you're going to do a bit more teching, you could try Quartz/Tech3/PP. It's an S-Atk/PP soul that boosts the transfer rate of Technique affixes.

That said, PP is a bit of an oddity on Techer since you don't have PP Charge. You'll want enough for 5 or 6 consecutive casts of your technique of choice, which about 120 should be plenty. But to make the most out of your wand, you'll be swinging it around and staying near full PP the whole time, so extra PP could be a waste for certain playstyles.

If you find yourself simply swinging away, the obvious choice would be Vol/Pow3/HP. Course you could always go for Soul/Tech3/Pow3 or even try an Ability affix and/or 4+ slots, but Soul/Stat/Boost is the easiest path to 3s.

As for the video, it's some good work. Obviously can clean some stuff up a bit, and mirage spamming doesn't make for an impressive video, but I'd rather see that than resetting for an easy attack pattern. Try to get more comfortable during the downtime between a boss's attacks so you don't feel like you're wasting time.

You could also toss up a Ramegid or Zan instead of sitting at full PP during your melee bouts for extra continuous damage during a boss's opening. Just a single approaching charge or brief pause to stack it all at once while keeping your gear gauge topped up as well. Would especially help for Vol's top horn, the cats' howls, and Rockbear yelling at the clouds. Once you're too low to reach their weak point with your weapon, charge a tech and let it go at the apex of your next jump, then immediately continue your melee onslaught from there.

Zipzo

Jul 3, 2013, 09:26 PM

As for the video, it's some good work. Obviously can clean some stuff up a bit, and mirage spamming doesn't make for an impressive video, but I'd rather see that than resetting for an easy attack pattern. Try to get more comfortable during the downtime between a boss's attacks so you don't feel like you're wasting time.

Well, the problem is I don't have step attack and it's not worth the effort to swap to my gunslash in order to use it because weapon switch latency can sometimes just be a pain in the butt when it comes to being an opportunist. Mirage as a TE/HU is effectively all we have, since we can't block either. So in the case of a damaging attack coming at me, or a swipe that I have milliseconds to react to...mirage is my only option. I can't just walk it, because of unsheathed slowdown. I am going to get hit without using Mirage, I'm quite vulnerable.

You could also toss up a Ramegid or Zan instead of sitting at full PP during your melee bouts for extra continuous damage during a boss's opening. Just a single approaching charge or brief pause to stack it all at once while keeping your gear gauge topped up as well. Would especially help for Vol's top horn, the cats' howls, and Rockbear yelling at the clouds. Once you're too low to reach their weak point with your weapon, charge a tech and let it go at the apex of your next jump, then immediately continue your melee onslaught from there.

I actually would have agreed with you more until I got some actual practical experience with the build. While I think that my techs doing serviceable damage is indeed helpful, I get so little casts from a full bar of PP that casting when I'm within range to melee with a full bar of wand gear just seems like an inferior option, because given the boss moves out of range somehow, I want my full share of PP to use in the down time to both maximize ranged damage and gear building.

It's a very interesting balancing act, if you will, because one needs to cast to get wand gear, but I need to melee to get the ability to cast. Since I have maybe 4 casts before I'm juiced, I need to make each cast count, and given that wand gear is free and utterly some of the best consistent damage it makes more sense to part the resources and categorize the roles since Te/Hu finds themselves doing both in any given fight...

When you start off...cast to immediately go for a full bar of gear, approach melee range ASAP. As your gear depletes and the boss moves, it's best to take advantage of the space the boss makes by casting until you're back in melee range, and if you haven't a full PP bar you're going to run in to regen down time, and when that happens your wand gear is also going to keep depleting without proper recharge...it's an odd domino effect. Sometimes this still happens but I think refraining from casting when you have the ability to wand gear is pretty essential to this ebb and flow. I think ultimately that mastery of the TE/HU style will involve a fundamental mastery in understanding of when the best time to cast, and the best time to melee is. I'm still working out the kinks, and trying to get better every day so I'm sure I'll start plugging in to a deeper niche and seeing faster kills from those improvements.

UnLucky

Jul 3, 2013, 10:03 PM

Well you should be able to Mirage Escape (fully) and get a melee hit or quick cast off if you time it very well (early dodge, or fire tech, or uncharged). I see you with time to run around before your next dodge during the Banther fight. Or get good at canceling the ME. Certainly means you have to cut it very close, which is definitely not easy enough to be worth chancing it on a no-damage run before you fully master the boss's patterns, but it's a learning process. While you're doing what you're doing, get a feel for exactly how much time you actually have, and see what you can reasonably do in that time.

For the teching, I'm not really saying to always have a tech active, since that's not going to be the best choice every time. But for any kind of positioning you could sneak in a tech that will fully play out before the boss moves with any extra time being filled up with the regular melee hits you're doing now. Hitting the weak point is your main priority here, whether it's with your melee or your techs, preferably melee in this case, but a tech in the right spot can be better than just blindly swinging your arms at the boss. Just a priority issue, I spose.

Alisha

Jul 4, 2013, 12:21 AM

for my Te/Hu the units i use have vol soul/pow 3/ability 3 x3. i also carry around a lambda patti and lambda aristan. i'm currently building a new mag so i can still have good s-atk and also be able to equip evil curst.

Alisha

Jul 4, 2013, 01:31 AM

Hello.

So yesterday I decided I would take some time to make a no damage boss run as TE/HU. It's probably one of my more favorite builds to play simply because of how unique the play style is, it's hard to think that this was how they imagined someone would want to play the Techer...so it's fun in that sense as well.　I plan to do all the bosses but I have a 10 minute limit on my videos so the first video will have the first four and I'll get the next four up soon.

PSO2 TE/HU VH No Damage Boss Run Pt. 1 - YouTube (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=t7PSyoXTFpw)

ー　This isn't meant to be a masterful display of skill. These are neither my fastest kills, nor my slowest. I am not perfect so there is probably a dopey missed JA here and there, and other kinds of mistakes I have obviously seen and reviewed for myself already.

ー　I am not boasting TE/HU as an optimal spec, I'm just showing how I get along playing as one of my favoured play styles.

The build in the video is here... (http://ryuhiroshi.funpic.de/pso2/skillcalc.php?04eBb3Ikb3Ikb3Ikb3Ikb3Ikb3Ik0lbInqnG KsN6JiGA00000Ib00000ib00000ib00007b000008kbdFHXfdF jqxIkIo0000)

Questions, comments, thoughts, opinions are all appreciated and respected.

whats your mag stats?

Zipzo

Jul 4, 2013, 02:12 AM

whats your mag stats?

The mag I use is Lvl 175 with 125 Striking and 50 Ability.

Yeah, don't ask about the ability, I'd like to think it's doing something. At the least it helps me equip my 10* Gunslash.

Alisha

Jul 4, 2013, 02:51 AM

no its fine i have a similar mag. that said something seems off about your damage output with zan on gwana.

edit:hmmn those 600 were un JA'ed Zans i will compare my own.

OppaiMaya

Jul 4, 2013, 03:22 AM

The mag I use is Lvl 175 with 125 Striking and 50 Ability.

Yeah, don't ask about the ability, I'd like to think it's doing something. At the least it helps me equip my 10* Gunslash.

My first mag also had 50 abil. Now it's only at 20. I used the "evolution skip" method this way I was able to keep my leo mag but without having to spend and extra 30 points on ability.

I'm a fan of the ability mags looks wise they are the best in the game IMO. So all of my mags have atleast 20 dex so that at lvl 100 it can turn into a ability type mag.

If you ever reset ur mag or buy a new one you should skip the evolutions (assuming you want an ability based mag).

A little bit of dex/ability doesnt hurt but a bunch of it does.

Alisha

Jul 4, 2013, 04:29 AM

heres my gwana run
not as clean but the damage is pretty similar

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8rnvmw3-4QI

Coatl

Jul 4, 2013, 04:33 AM

Does no one play the actual boss theme during boss fights anymore? :I Also whats the name of that track Alisha?

Alisha

Jul 4, 2013, 04:49 AM

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1cKZTZCBSMs

Zenobia

Jul 4, 2013, 07:48 AM

heres my gwana run
not as clean but the damage is pretty similar
pso2 Te/Hu solo gwana - YouTube (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8rnvmw3-4QI)

Some nice damage nice music to.

@Coatl: Even I don't play the boss music of PSO2 anymore it gets boring pretty fast LOL.

Zipzo

Jul 4, 2013, 08:21 AM

My first mag also had 50 abil. Now it's only at 20. I used the "evolution skip" method this way I was able to keep my leo mag but without having to spend and extra 30 points on ability.

I'm a fan of the ability mags looks wise they are the best in the game IMO. So all of my mags have atleast 20 dex so that at lvl 100 it can turn into a ability type mag.

If you ever reset ur mag or buy a new one you should skip the evolutions (assuming you want an ability based mag).

A little bit of dex/ability doesnt hurt but a bunch of it does.

Does resetting your mag remove your mag device?

If so then I'm not really interested in resetting my mag...the mag stats don't really bother me.

Mags to me are equip requirement bots, and often that ability helps my other classes equip lambdas earlier, some armor and other weapons. I don't only play Te/Hu.

I started off doing to for the same reason though, because I liked the ability mags.

By the way I finished my Pt. 2 no damage run from Vardha to Dragon ex, so be patient and you'll see the next four soon :)

jcart953

Jul 4, 2013, 10:33 AM

At least in my case, as that's what I do, I think that's correct. For runs like these the HP souls/affixes are obviously slightly under optimized but in terms of general play I think that at the very least Vol/Pow III is necessary for the striking boosts.

The only piece of gear that differentiates from this path is my wand, in which I have Gwana Soul instead of Vol Soul.

Im confused, why are you guys going power affixes, thought wand explosion was based of 20% of t-attack * % modifers? I mean unless your using other hunter weapons

Sanguine2009

Jul 4, 2013, 11:59 AM

they are going power affixs because 90% of skills don't effect wand gear damage + the actual striking part of the attack has high modifiers for a normal attack.

UnLucky

Jul 4, 2013, 01:49 PM

Im confused, why are you guys going power affixes, thought wand explosion was based of 20% of t-attack * % modifers? I mean unless your using other hunter weapons

The explosion is based off of T-Atk, yes, but it actually counts as Striking damage and gets boosted by Fury Stance. It does not, however, get JA Bonus nor Fury Combo. On a single target, the majority of your wand damage is actually from the standard melee hit, which does get every bonus from the Hunter skill tree. Techer's S-Atk isn't all that bad, either (like Fighter's T-Atk, but depends on the race you chose as well).

As a Te/Fo, the wand gear explosion actually has zero multipliers affecting it. As such, the only thing you can really do to boost its damage is to pump pure T-Atk, which also improves your technic damage as well.

jcart953

Jul 4, 2013, 11:06 PM

The explosion is based off of T-Atk, yes, but it actually counts as Striking damage and gets boosted by Fury Stance. It does not, however, get JA Bonus nor Fury Combo. On a single target, the majority of your wand damage is actually from the standard melee hit, which does get every bonus from the Hunter skill tree. .

Everything else i aready knew but this one part sort of conflicts with everything else i read about. So bare with me here. Wand explosion only benefits from fury stance and its fury up skills. Giving it a total of:

Wand Explosion: 1.5125 (1.25*1.1*1.1)
Normal swing: 1.97 +?? (too lazy to do math)

Now in the video the op makes his first swing against vol dragon at mark 1:53 and the higest damage that pops up is 1617 for wand explosion and what 945 for normal damage?. If im understanding this correctly then that 1617 is dervived by 20% of t attack * 1.5125% modifers and the weak spot. Yet the 945 is coming off normal damage * the 1.97 +. In addition the wand explosion attacks other nearby enemies as well. So this is where im getting confused how is the normal damage swing higher then the wand explosion in single strike or any strike. Because in the example above i cannot see that 945 getting any higher then the 1617. Maybe someone can clear this up for me.

Oh and so what are you guys s attack and t attackat 60/60 with your gear . Just wondering.

UnLucky

Jul 4, 2013, 11:56 PM

holmwood

Jul 5, 2013, 02:50 AM

1)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jv6LmLp2qaM"]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jv6LmLp2qaM

Here's a good one. :)

Shows the mob-killing aspect of a Te/Hu.
Note the slight hop the user does after zondeel so as to avoid insta-death from the clumped monsters.

Also note how the user spams assault buster to move quickly across the map.

It's little things like this that make this class setup fun. ^^;

2) Now I'm still debating on Te/Hu vs Te/Fi. I noticed that OP uses alot of dark techs, and doesn't invest in flash guard. So it makes more sense to me for OP to use a Te/Fi setup to accommodate the tech usage in between openings for whacking.

3) One problem I have with either setups is gap closing. I need to get in and out as fast as possible, but mirage escape is so slow. :dead:

Zipzo

Jul 5, 2013, 09:55 AM

1) http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jv6LmLp2qaM

Here's a good one. :)

Shows the mob-killing aspect of a Te/Hu.
Note the slight hop the user does after zondeel so as to avoid insta-death from the clumped monsters.

Also note how the user spams assault buster to move quickly across the map.

It's little things like this that make this class setup fun. ^^;

2) Now I'm still debating on Te/Hu vs Te/Fi. I noticed that OP uses alot of dark techs, and doesn't invest in flash guard. So it makes more sense to me for OP to use a Te/Fi setup to accommodate the tech usage in between openings for whacking.

3) One problem I have with either setups is gap closing. I need to get in and out as fast as possible, but mirage escape is so slow. :dead:

None of the things that impressed you are really unique to TE/HU...

- A slight hop doesn't necessarily save you from getting hit after a zondeel, it's just a movement gimmick that they do because hopping while casting is generally safer overall no matter the situation (and less boring).

- Anyone with hunter main or sub can use AB movement spam, this isn't exactly unique to TE/HU.

Don't go TE/FI, it's inferior since the hunter tree buff. They use a lot of dark techs because they are running sanctum. This player has invested every single ounce of their character to destroying sanctum, and it pays off in this circumstance.

Mirage is slow but the invulnerability is over powered. It's all you have as a TE/HU and you need to use it to your advantage to stay close. "Getting out" is not really necessary if you've perfected Mirage.

It is a neat video overall, though I wish they would have tried to take less damage.

Pillan

Jul 5, 2013, 11:31 AM

Don't go TE/FI, it's inferior since the hunter tree buff.

This statement bothers me as between the 1.44 to the favored spell type plus 1.44 from being in front of the enemy is a comparable multiplier. But it makes sense if you are focused more on wand smacks than techniques. I certainly do not doubt it for the displayed play style, of course.

holmwood

Jul 5, 2013, 12:21 PM

None of the things that impressed you are really unique to TE/HU...

- A slight hop doesn't necessarily save you from getting hit after a zondeel, it's just a movement gimmick that they do because hopping while casting is generally safer overall no matter the situation (and less boring).

- Anyone with hunter main or sub can use AB movement spam, this isn't exactly unique to TE/HU.

Don't go TE/FI, it's inferior since the hunter tree buff. They use a lot of dark techs because they are running sanctum. This player has invested every single ounce of their character to destroying sanctum, and it pays off in this circumstance.

-I tested the hop. I would cast zondeel, jump a little forward whilst turning back, and whack them. The mobs will take time turning around to face you, but they do so just in time to get fury stanced in the face. The question here is : do enemies delay their attack when they are turning around to reorient themselves to their target?

-I'm still iffy about going Te/Hu. The numbers don't lie of course. It's just there are situations where I still need to use techs heavily. Some bosses, for instance, have weak points that only techs are able to reach.

Zipzo

Jul 5, 2013, 12:49 PM

-I'm still iffy about going Te/Hu. The numbers don't lie of course. It's just there are situations where I still need to use techs heavily. Some bosses, for instance, have weak points that only techs are able to reach.

It's true that we are limited by our abilities, just as any other class has strengths and weaknesses.

For example, when my Pt. 2 video goes up, you'll notice a couple of long kills. A part of this is because I'm trying to be safe in most cases because this is my first time doing a no damage run of all the bosses as a class that cannot block or step. Another part is due to class/play style weakness. Where HU/FI or FI/HU or RA/HU can take these bosses quite quickly because of the tools they have available, doing it as quickly with TE/HU requires a bit more practice and patience. No step means waiting out mirage on long attacks. Not being as a strong as a HU/FI and FI/HU means not making breaks as quickly or getting as much opportunity to lay in to him. My gear could also be better, shortening the time as well.

Quartz ultimately winds up taking more time than I'd like simply because he blasts around the stage too much. Since I'm a melee focused TE/HU I'm crippled by this constant movement and I'm forced to make do with the DPS windows I have available. It's frustrating to say the least, but it's a small price to pay, a minute or two more on a boss because I can't spam ranged on them in exchange for playing a fun build. If I were HU/FI I'd say I could break his parts sooner and have gotten more DPS time during break-stun.

Ex Dragon is a strange animal. Phase 1 is relatively straight forward, but once he turns orange his attacks are much faster, and a few of them combo in to 180 degree swipes which puts you at full risk of getting hit even when/after miraging. He has a few quick swipe attacks that make being in front of him (or at least positioned in wand melee range) being so incredibly dangerous that in order to not risk getting hit I needed sometimes to monitor his pattern on when I could get in to melee. There's a brief exchange where I remain in melee for quite some time near to his death and it is just a bit too risky. He even has fake out movements. Ultimately I hope to improve on this time in the very near future as I'm not incredibly proud of my phase 2 performance, but a'las...I didn't take a day of footage to display this, I just took a couple practice tries to learn his moves and then took a recording. No biggie. I'm attempting some shorter attempts before publishing the video to make sure I've exhausted all the methods.

-I tested the hop. I would cast zondeel, jump a little forward whilst turning back, and whack them. The mobs will take time turning around to face you, but they do so just in time to get fury stanced in the face. The question here is : do enemies delay their attack when they are turning around to reorient themselves to their target?

Casters hop because it puts you out of range of incoming lunge attacks and other types of things while firing off spells where you are relatively vulnerable while going through the short animation. In regards to Zondeel, it only makes sense to hope out of it in order to take advantage of this methodology since you're clumping so many mobs up at one time, but this isn't an end-all be-all win solution, there's still a chance a mob could end up swiping in your direction and still hit you, even if you hopped. The hop just greatly reduces the chance of you experiencing an unfortunate waste of zondeel due to a hit.

Omega-z

Jul 5, 2013, 03:03 PM

Zipzo

Jul 5, 2013, 09:18 PM

Zipzo - the video possibly had them take in some damage to show they can take it. The person wasn't set up for melee'ing but for teching. Came form FO most likely to try the build out with Hunter. I believe your out damaging her with your melee striking damage not counting the WG or Tech's.

I could reason that. I'd bring in to question the idea that I'm clearly out damaging her though.

If I wasn't paying for gear and affixes for so many different roles at the moment I'd invest a little more in to my TE/HU gear but currently trying to maximize my FO/FI armor setup for "optimum" play when necessary. Affixing can be such a wallet killer :(, and lvl 3 unlocking my rod was a bit annoying...

By the way I finished the compilation! Currently I'm mixing & uploading Pt. 2! I was able to much improve my Dragon Ex time and the situation is actually kinda funny which I'll explain once the video goes up.

jcart953

Jul 5, 2013, 10:51 PM

Watch closely to the numbers, the explosion happens after the initial swing.

@1:56
1573 + 956
2646 + 956
3803 + (can't really see the other number, possibly 912?)

The first hit wasn't a Just Attack, but the second and third ones were. The third swing of a wand (and other melee weapons like the sword) has a higher multiplier on its damage, but the explosion does not, and actually cannot be Just Attacked either.

Try it out if you'd like. Attack an enemy without any wand gear charge and take note of the damage values. Now charge your gear and attack the same kind of enemy. You should notice that the additional numbers don't vary quite nearly as much as your normal attack.

With equal S-Atk and T-Atk, the explosion is consistently weaker than the regular strike.

So basically i was looking at the wand explosion in my example the opposite way around i.e the 1617 is the acutal normal melee swing damage and 945 was wand explosion? If so dont know how i messed that up.

On the flip side the only other te/hu videos i found on youtube were these :

This video isnt as clear but nonetheless i think its a good one.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GX_le63fUAI"]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GX_le63fUAI

Heres a second one doing the same TA run:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=N4RqqkRU0_c"]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=N4RqqkRU0_c

Zipzo

Jul 6, 2013, 12:51 AM

Here it is folks. I ended up getting YouTube to allow me longer videos, so I mixed all the fights in to one video. All 8 bosses.

If you've seen Pt. 1, you'll want to skip to 9:28 to where I start Vardha.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cA39jDmhaD0

Enjoy.

Something to note...on what I was deeming to be my "last try" at a good no damage dragon ex at a good time...he randomly popped out in the middle of running to him through the Sanctum as an emergency code...so I flipped on Playclaw and said what the hell...and it ended up being my best time, haha.

If you want to see it in 1080p please wait a little bit for it to process more.

Coatl

Jul 6, 2013, 02:41 AM

The new techer skills seem to actually boost the potency of wand. Could make TE a much better main than it is now.

UnLucky

Jul 6, 2013, 05:04 AM

Only if Main Wand and Power Wand end up being useful.

Alisha

Jul 6, 2013, 06:13 AM

Only if Main Wand and Power Wand end up being useful.

based on the description i think power wand adds 40% of your tech to your attack.

http://i.minus.com/ibaX7zanTQMp8e.png

UnLucky

Jul 6, 2013, 06:52 AM

based on the description i think power wand adds 40% of your tech to your attack.

Yeah 5SP for 20% of 40% of your base T-Atk added to your damage with no multipliers.

I mean without any extra base T-Atk then it already beats out TEcast for S-Atk, and it definitely helps better than nothing, but is it worth the SP? Just like how Force gets to spend 10SP for 10% more damage with a Talis, it feels like playing catchup.

Omega-z

Jul 6, 2013, 09:27 AM

Zipzo - The reason why I said that your doing better is that her melee striking is almost the same as mine. She's doing about 50 dmg more then me. But I'm lower then her by 11 Lv's and almost no Affixes what ever on my gear. On top of that I lose out on the element damage bonus and dragon bonus, Since I have a Fire Wand with no special. So a 70~75% drop in damage (not sure if it adds that way). 35% elemental, 10% for special, 10% for hunter ST and 10% in stat's not counting if I miss anything else. Now the person does do more WG (380~400) and Tech's (2k) for sure and having all the gear focused more on T-alk would help with that. The thing is Your doing better Melee Striking damage then me by about 900 - 1k in damage so in reason you should be higher then her. I'm wondering if she didn't focused her Hunter tree and was more general and her Techer tree was focused with FO in mind. Oh, also One odd thing I noticed, I was doing 350~400 more damage then you and Alisha with WG but not your tech's. I think it's just lv. difference with me and Alisha's tech's tho since there about 100 more then mine. But, yeah you both are around that 1K~1.1K range and I'm getting 1480~1536 This is consent damage. Maybe the T-atk get's more Mod % to it then affixes'd T-atk's for WG?

Yeah, EX is the hardest For Melee Techer's. I usually focus down his Arm's with Sa-Megid and rush-in during moment's of his glory animation's (this is where Meat-shield's are useful) while running in a circle around him. Once the arm's are broken I rush him and keep on coming at him if he moves away. He has a blind spot toward's his back side for most of his attack's. The one attack I hear for the "Jest" one where it's a 360 spin to avoid when up close and to lock him into doing that for a while like 3~4 time's in a row. So a time'd Ra-Megid Before his attack and a good amount of whack's afterward's.

edit: Oh, I like your new Avatar pic. i goes well with your name.:)

Xaelouse

Jul 6, 2013, 09:35 AM

So what if that skill SuperTreatment, at max, makes Shifta/Deband regenerate 4 PP/sec (or like PP convert) throughout their normal non-extended duration?

AgemFrostMage

Jul 6, 2013, 10:25 AM

The new techer skills seem to actually boost the potency of wand. Could make TE a much better main than it is now.

Only if it isn't too deep in a tree. I wouldn't want to spend 5 points in PP up or PP convert just for the gear -_-

jcart953

Jul 6, 2013, 10:59 AM

Only if it isn't too deep in a tree. I wouldn't want to spend 5 points in PP up or PP convert just for the gear -_-

I agree we already have enough sp sinks all over the place. Hopefully they place it right under wand gear or something.

Rien

Jul 6, 2013, 11:48 PM

jcart953

Jul 7, 2013, 01:34 AM

I've been hearing people tell me that their TE/HU is hitting well over 10k with each swing on a weakspot.

That's just crazy, but considering this is TE/HU thread I have help finding some actual evidence? (Nico nico links are okay)

Yes, its possible ive done it, but only with weakbullet. In addition I was a te/fi so I see no reason why a te/hu couldnt. Too lazy to make a video perhaps others might though.

Coatl

Jul 7, 2013, 01:41 AM

10k per swing seems about normal with a weak bullet. If it were lower I'd be concerned.

holmwood

Jul 7, 2013, 02:10 AM

Maybe it's falz arm damage. :P

Alisha

Jul 7, 2013, 02:57 AM

i've hit as high as 14-15k on the 3rd swing.

Rien

Jul 7, 2013, 03:03 AM

i've hit as high as 14-15k on the 3rd swing.

And under what conditions? Weak spot + weak bullet?

Alisha

Jul 7, 2013, 03:21 AM

yep on elders arm exposed spot.
edit: in this video you can see me hitting for 14k once wb is applied

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6yMc2pW70-8

UnLucky

Jul 7, 2013, 03:40 AM

Doesn't Zipzo get ~4k hits in the video? Those would get you those numbers with WB.

Zenobia

Jul 7, 2013, 07:12 AM

i've hit as high as 14-15k on the 3rd swing.

I wouldn't count weak spots as actual damage sense your damage is being boosted from WB that's not a good damage comparison at all.

Count your highest damage on weak spots without WB that's the smart way.

Cortte

Jul 16, 2013, 07:22 PM

I've gotta say. Since watching this video and reading the thread I am completely in love with this build. I plan to use my second character creation to do this build but I have one question. In terms of play style i'm going to be less about casting and more about swinging, so while I know I need to cast to increase gear. I may not put points into % boosts on magic damage. Instead I am thinking about how useful Elemental Weak Hit would be. I understand wand gear does element damage based on the wands element. So I can only assume Elemental Weak Hit would make it better. Is this correct?

UnLucky

Jul 16, 2013, 07:41 PM

As far as I can tell, no, Element Weak Hit does not affect Wand Gear explosion damage. However it does deal different damage depending on the target's elemental weakness or resistance. By all means it should get EWH's bonus, but it just doesn't.

The only things in the Techer's own tree that improves their melee damage are: Wand Gear, T-Atk Up, and Shifta. But going for those are rather minor so you'd likely be better off improving your technic element of choice for when you need to charge your Wand Gear or when you can't get within melee range.

Cortte

Jul 16, 2013, 07:56 PM

Zipzo

Jul 16, 2013, 08:23 PM

Ahh noted. Thanks for the quick reply and info.

Essentially when it comes to the Techer tree it is as Unlucky said, you might as well boost the power of the Techs that are at your disposal since they do see use at all.

Arada

Jul 17, 2013, 05:24 PM

We're getting there...

[spoiler-box]
http://img15.hostingpics.net/pics/685285pso20130718001402018.jpg
[/spoiler-box]

This is with Wand Reactor at +5.

I've seen better hits with my normal hit (in the 17k) but didn't get a proper screenshot.

Alisha

Jul 17, 2013, 11:27 PM

not that impressive but about to try it myself.

Alisha

Jul 19, 2013, 09:02 AM

just tested zanverse and i think it's beastly for us Te/Hu's also due to how it works if you cast it in someones zondeel >_>. the damage it deals is a percentage of the damage you just dealt wich means it triggers on your wand swings as well as you wand gear explosions. uploading a video now will post when its done.

edit:here it is. shamefully i died because lack of sleep,i need better defense units purple wings not cutting it anymore,and i underestimated the hp of beach monsters.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZhVeKX4gtCo

Alisha

Jul 19, 2013, 09:40 AM

in review of my video it looks like zan spells cast in zanverse are getting a 1:1 conversion
*passes out*

gigawuts

Jul 19, 2013, 09:42 AM

in review of my video it looks like zan spells cast in zanverse are getting a 1:1 conversion
*passes out*

Now you just need to tell me it lasts 30 seconds and I might need to clean up a mess.

jcart953

Jul 19, 2013, 09:46 AM

Has it been confirmed that territory burst expands the radius of zanverse?

Alisha

Jul 19, 2013, 03:48 PM

i just confirmed it now.

Zipzo

Jul 20, 2013, 01:31 AM

Just had a chance to test the new Te/Hu build and some of the new techs.

Zanverse - The skill has potential, but this is not a solo skill at all. You get an ~30% wind damage proc on each hit, relative to the damage dealt. I can't say that I can confirm for sure that it procs off of the WG hit, but even if it does it still isn't worth casting by yourself. Where this spell really shines and is probably one of the best support spells in the game is that is works on other players, and not to mention that it procs on enemies hit outside of the circle by you and those players. Situations like players grouping up on Vardha core or Ragne core & Falz butt come to mind, maybe even exit bursts. In these circumstances, if we were to attribute all extra-curricular damage accumulated by the Zanverse to the Techer, the damage you can do as a player is quite impressive and significant. When going solo, Zondeel > Zanverse > ...and then > melee is just too clunky. It takes much too long to fork out two fully charged casts before you can melee when you could have already had the group dead after Zondeel and a swing. Now...where Zanverse sort of fails to earn it's bread and butter title...

Nagrants - Nagrants is a different story. Without even any points in light, it ticks automatically for more damage than the ZV procs, and not to mention it's a light element spell so you chance having weakness advantage more often than with wind. To push matters further, it doesn't require you to swing to throw its damage out, meaning it builds your WG as you are swinging on everything in the field, by more than any of the tiny wind procs can. This makes Nagrants hugely more efficient overall in terms of solo or low man group situations. It still suffers from the same "clunkiness" of being the 2nd spell fully charged before you can melee, which sort of makes it a questionable game play choice in the face of just swinging your wand after Zondeel.

Wand Reactor - I gained roughly 350 S-ATT (348 IIRC) getting 5/5 in Wand Reactor. It's a noticeable increase in damage given that.

Wand Reverse - This skill is mainly a bossing tool. When mobbing or clearing areas Zondeel is your most valuable tool, so pumping this skill all the time is absolutely counter-intuitive for almost any practical situation outside of bossing, but for bossing it's amazing. Some bosses don't allow you to build gear very well, Zan is in-effective on single/low target bosses and Te/Hu doesn't perform all too heroically VS highly mobile bosses. This skill let's you skip the pains and agonies of trying to build gear off of the boss so that you can get to the BnB of your gameplay, by simply letting you go right in with your WG. Very good CD for bosses. Short CD, pretty good up time. Get's better if you can push more points in to it assuming your build has the space. It's CD not only shortens but it gets longer. I recommend putting Trimates on your action bar though, since you're incapable of casting (so no megiverse or resta) while it's active.

That's all for now, but I'm sure I'll be back in to the thread to report more stuff later.

UnLucky

Jul 20, 2013, 02:00 AM

in review of my video it looks like zan spells cast in zanverse are getting a 1:1 conversion
*passes out*

Hm, isn't the Zanverse proc the 318 damage off of the 920 Zan? That's a bit over 1/3 damage. The double 750ish hits is just two hits of Zan, so it's not that.

Seems pretty crappy while solo since simply using another Zan instead would be better damage, even if you could fit two casts in per Zanverse.

But since it scales based on the damage dealt and not modified by your Wind Mastery (I think?), it could be useful for any caster regardless of build.

Alisha

Aug 1, 2013, 06:39 PM

well. purple wings are just not cutting it anymore. those shark dudes on the beach can 1 shot me. i need new units. suggestions?

Gardios

Aug 1, 2013, 06:47 PM

But since it scales based on the damage dealt and not modified by your Wind Mastery (I think?), it could be useful for any caster regardless of build.

Wind Mastery affects it.

It's more of a party support technique, really.

gigawuts

Aug 1, 2013, 06:56 PM

well. purple wings are just not cutting it anymore. those shark dudes on the beach can 1 shot me. i need new units. suggestions?

Ragne for easy affixing or 6* spikes just for those jerkoffs.

Xaeris

Aug 1, 2013, 07:16 PM

well. purple wings are just not cutting it anymore. those shark dudes on the beach can 1 shot me. i need new units. suggestions?

Chiffon set's good if you can afford it. 19 PP just for equipping it, Strike Resist, and okayish HP. No Atk on the set bonus though.

Rob2003ert

Aug 2, 2013, 07:24 PM

http://www.nicovideo.jp/watch/sm21481403
Over 10k hits with no WB, gad damn. 41 light on his wand.

Shiyo

Aug 2, 2013, 07:28 PM

Ragne for easy affixing or 6* spikes just for those jerkoffs.

How do ragne units help affixing?

gigawuts

Aug 2, 2013, 07:54 PM

How do ragne units help affixing?

They can drop with ragne soul, and people will frequently sell them fairly cheaply pre-affixed with ragne/random/random.

Rob2003ert

Aug 2, 2013, 08:19 PM

TE/HU wants S-ATK though, so if you're gearing for that rather than FO or TE/FO it makes little difference. I like Vharda for the extra HP over Ragne, but either is nice.

Alisha

Aug 3, 2013, 01:51 AM

the hell theres a vid on there of te/gu killing quartz in 40 secs

Kondibon

Aug 3, 2013, 02:16 AM

the hell theres a vid on there of te/gu killing quartz in 40 secs

*grabby hands* Link.

Rob2003ert

Aug 3, 2013, 03:13 AM

*grabby hands* Link.

http://www.nicovideo.jp/watch/sm21475721
Namegid is balanced.

Edit: He'd broken face before recording actually, maybe Alisha is talking about something else.

Kondibon

Aug 3, 2013, 03:16 AM

Pretty sure that wasn't 40 seconds from the start. Quartz's nose is already broken and poisoned when the video starts. :/ That's still stupidly powerful.

Rob2003ert

Aug 3, 2013, 09:43 PM

Decided to run TE/HU on my Dewman rather than Newearl for a better stat spread, level 36 and already over 2k S-ATK with 0 S-ATK affixes omg:
[SPOILER-BOX]http://i.imgur.com/9xhtY1l.jpg[/SPOILER-BOX]
As a side note, the new melee PB is fucking amazing with this much S-ATK, it's throwing out 3.4k per hit and not even on weak points, madness.

gigawuts

Aug 3, 2013, 09:45 PM

It's pretty amazing how fast those stats add up, isn't it? But then you remember you lack the extra multipliers and the PAs that other melee weapons have and you get kind of sad that it takes 2k satk AND wand explosion to make wands competent :disapprove:

Shiyo

Aug 3, 2013, 09:55 PM

Techer provides insane support,boosting everyones damage and survivability by a ton, it's not supposed to outdamage or deal as much damage as a melee. This would matter if this games meta wasn't WB - > kill in 5 secs with deadly archer/insert other overpowered PA spam.

Rob2003ert

Aug 3, 2013, 10:04 PM

I'm honestly pretty happy with where TE sits now. It feels like it fulfills the support role perfectly and offers a unique playstyle as opposed to "Why aren't you FO?". Our damage isn't gonna compare to the likes of a FI or HU but it's at least respectable now, and being up in the fray means easy Shifta, Megiverse and Zanverse upkeep where applicable, which I think can easily bring more to the table than just throwing another DD at things. My gear has a long way to go still so I'm looking forward to seeing my numbers later. Even though I'm not hitting 6 digits like my HU or BR it still feels satisfying to push this classes potential.

Alisha

Aug 14, 2013, 01:42 PM

does anyone else really like nafoie and nazonde with te/hu? i never liked zondeel much because my pallete was always hurting for space. and nafoie i can hit a rockbear for 9k in the face.

gigawuts

Aug 14, 2013, 01:45 PM

IzzyData

Aug 14, 2013, 01:57 PM

Kondibon

Aug 14, 2013, 02:11 PM

I also really enjoyed this combination of classes, but it was depressing how insignificant the damage was compared to other classes.

I'd also really like to know how zanverse works. I never notice any effect.

Zanverse deals an extra hit about a second after you hit something. It totals the damage from every hit to the same point until it triggers and then does 20% of the total. The resulting damage is affected by wind masteries.

It's worth mentioning that the attacker has to be in the AoE not the target.

IzzyData

Aug 14, 2013, 02:37 PM

Ah thank you for the explanation. That sounds pretty useful since I can just cast it from my ranged position and gain the buff.

Kondibon

Aug 14, 2013, 02:38 PM

Ah thank you for the explanation. That sounds pretty useful since I can just cast it from my ranged position and gain the buff.

It's not particularly great solo because of the short duration. Using it in a group is really effective though since everyone inside gets a 20-28% damage increase.

Alisha

Aug 14, 2013, 11:13 PM

Without the benefits of the force tree I imagine they feel a bit gimped, but nafoie does hit pretty hard and does have that nice blanket of fire so it might still be good. Nazonde...a lot of people hate it even with all the benefits of a full bolt spec on a FO tree.

Can anyone confirm either way how zanverse works? Do you stand in it and your attacks are buffed no matter where enemies are? Or do enemies stand in it and no matter where you are they get extra attacks dealt to them? I've heard both from people I'd consider reliable.

how can you not like what is essentially holding current in tech form? maybe since you need to get close? but thats not really a problem for techer. and the damage output for the pp cost is really nice. an unlike the shit that is nabarta it doesnt continually drain your pp.

Zipzo

Aug 14, 2013, 11:17 PM

UnLucky

Aug 14, 2013, 11:30 PM

how can you not like what is essentially holding current in tech form? maybe since you need to get close? but thats not really a problem for techer. and the damage output for the pp cost is really nice. an unlike the shit that is nabarta it doesnt continually drain your pp.

You know it was only last week that they fixed Bolt PP Save not working for Nazonde, so it definitely was not good for the PP cost before then.

Even still, it's twice as much as Zondeel but instead of being cast and done with so you can do whatever while it ticks away (including casting another one), you're stuck there with no super armor, no PP regen, and no way to cancel the tech on command.

And each tick is weaker than Zondeel or Sazonde. I can do a lot more damage with either of those in the same amount of time or PP as Nazonde, and yes that's with a macro.

Ed: And apparently it didn't charge Wand Gear before? But I just tried it now and it does.

Zipzo

Aug 15, 2013, 04:15 AM

gigawuts

Aug 15, 2013, 08:09 AM

how can you not like what is essentially holding current in tech form? maybe since you need to get close? but thats not really a problem for techer. and the damage output for the pp cost is really nice. an unlike the shit that is nabarta it doesnt continually drain your pp.

Because holding current 1. grapples, 2. wrecks the everliving shit out of everything it grapples

Nazonde just doesn't, at least not without the FO masteries. What makes zondeel spam work is you can pursue targets that move back out of your range, plus your range is way, way larger.

edit: Now that TE and its balance with other subs has changed, how do we feel about my old idea of adding a 1 SP skill to make Territory Burst's effect permanent, or maybe turn it into a 10 minute skill just like a stance (so you could turn it off if you wanted to for some reason)? It would require the full 10 SP invested in Territory Burst, with the reasoning being it's clearly meant to be a nearly permanent duration thing what with the duration being just 10 seconds shy of its cooldown.

BlankM

Aug 15, 2013, 10:27 AM

You know it was only last week that they fixed Bolt PP Save not working for Nazonde, so it definitely was not good for the PP cost before then.

Even still, it's twice as much as Zondeel but instead of being cast and done with so you can do whatever while it ticks away (including casting another one), you're stuck there with no super armor, no PP regen, and no way to cancel the tech on command.

And each tick is weaker than Zondeel or Sazonde. I can do a lot more damage with either of those in the same amount of time or PP as Nazonde, and yes that's with a macro.

Ed: And apparently it didn't charge Wand Gear before? But I just tried it now and it does.

I don't think mashing nazonde does anything but increase the duration.

Because holding current 1. grapples, 2. wrecks the everliving shit out of everything it grapples

Nazonde just doesn't, at least not without the FO masteries. What makes zondeel spam work is you can pursue targets that move back out of your range, plus your range is way, way larger.

edit: Now that TE and its balance with other subs has changed, how do we feel about my old idea of adding a 1 SP skill to make Territory Burst's effect permanent, or maybe turn it into a 10 minute skill just like a stance (so you could turn it off if you wanted to for some reason)? It would require the full 10 SP invested in Territory Burst, with the reasoning being it's clearly meant to be a nearly permanent duration thing what with the duration being just 10 seconds shy of its cooldown.

I mentioned these ideas to you before but they should just give wands PAs, then make wand gear a tech explosion that works with every weapon. (Damage multiplied by x amount of t.atk, then divided by x amount of hits in the PA) The PAs could all still be magic user-ish. Also to help with wand's melee problems make the dodge an instant teleport you can attack out of rather then a slow mirage dash. The teleport could be short range, cancelable into step attack.

That'd be way more fun than whacking things with normal attack all day. And it would open up room for melee/tech hybrids, something that I feel techer is supposed to do...

qoxolg

Aug 15, 2013, 11:21 AM

So I'm trying to cook-up ideas for my next video. What do you think would be good for showing skill in TE/HU gameplay? I was originally going to do TAs but I feel as if that's over done, and when it came down to it I was simply resetting every time I tripped over a stick just so I could save seconds to be cool. All in all it felt like a waste of effort for something that's not very hard to do anyways.

Any ideas?

How about soloing a high risk AQ? Or maybe some high floor Extreme Quest?

Talking about AQ's: I really hate it when people ignite my zondeels in non lightning weak area's. I usually run ahead for spawns to zondeel all the enemies in, keep them in place with my wand and letting the rangers, hunters, fighters and bravers finish the job. Igniting the zondeel actually slows down the whole team.