Braver Skill Tree

[Chdata]

So, now that it's out, what should you absolutely get, what should you absolutely ignore?

Katana gear definitely looks like a 'given' along with +3 Dex up. I'm not much of a good pso2 speculator though.

[Klashikari]

I'm personally going with this setup, although I'm not sold by Braver Mag yet.
Also, Charge skills provide a mere 10%, which is quite mediocre...
Snatch step is very gimmicky thus far, but it somewhat helps when you are surrounded by many trash. That being said, I think I will drop this point for Katana Combat 10 instead.


http://ryuhiroshi.funpic.de/pso2/skillcalc.php?05eNb3Ikb3Ikb3Ikb3Ikb3Ikb3Ikb3Ik0lbI nqnGFcAeDInfcKfGA000007b000009b000009b00000ib00000 0lb000000jebqB4SdncKsAcFib0006 (http://ryuhiroshi.funpic.de/pso2/skillcalc.php?05eNb3Ikb3Ikb3Ikb3Ikb3Ikb3Ikb3Ik0lbI nqnGFcAeDInfcKfGA000007b000009b000009b00000ib00000 0lb000000jebqB4SdncKsAcFib0006)

What looks mandatory anyway:
Katana Combat and Rapid Shoot 1SP
Maximizing every skills of your pimary weapon (so either KC + Combat JA bonus + Combat Finish, or RS + Rapid Shoot Up + Rapid Shoot Mastery)

[Chdata]

Braver mag sounds bad mostly because when I finally made the jump from a rod with 300ish T-atk to a 615 T-atk one, and my regular damage only went from like 650 to 700, the extra points seem unimportant unless you want to equip something specific.

Maybe if your mag had a lot of dex on it, it'd make a good difference. idk

[Narrillnezzurh]

The first point is 30%, so if you've got dex on your mag I don't see you wouldn't put at least one point in. For a hybrid setup you could run an s-atk/r-atk/dex mag with a point in braver mag and be pretty well off.

[Chdata]

So far the just reversal where you flip up after getting knocked down with 20% heal is really nice.

Katana gear is neat too if you actually use the counter attacks.

[Metalsnake27]

Here is the Braver/Hunter build I'm thinking about.

Focusing only on Katana on this one since basically just going straight up Melee.

http://ryuhiroshi.funpic.de/pso2/skillcalc.php?05eNb3Ikb3Ikb3Ikb3Ikb3Ikb3Ikb3Ik0lbk IqBGXcAdqInfcAfGA000007b000009b000009b00000ib00000 0lb000000lOdB4SdnmxsXI20000

Thoughts?

[jcart953]

Here is the Braver/Hunter build I'm thinking about.

Focusing only on Katana on this one since basically just going straight up Melee.

http://ryuhiroshi.funpic.de/pso2/skillcalc.php?05eNb3Ikb3Ikb3Ikb3Ikb3Ikb3Ikb3Ik0lbk IqBGXcAdqInfcAfGA000007b000009b000009b00000ib00000 0lb000000lOdB4SdnmxsXI20000

Thoughts?

Personally I would pickup weak stance instead of that Average S charge. Could just be me though.

[FerrickX]

i'm currently using this one

http://ryuhiroshi.funpic.de/pso2/skillcalc.php?05eNIEfb3Ikb3Ikb3Ikb3Ikb3IkIu06ebIoq nGDfdqIn000000lb000009b000009b00000ib000000lb00000 0lbf4NdnfcAI2ib0006

any thoughts ?

[Metalsnake27]

Personally I would pickup weak stance instead of that Average S charge. Could just be me though.

I guess I can see where your going with that, does Katana use charge attacks? I thought some of the PAs were chargeable or something.

Unless the Average S Charge isn't really worthwhile.

Also if I'm going to get Weak Stance, when should I pick it up and work on leveling it? After I finished with Average Stance or just as soon as I can then level it later?

Speaking of which, what should I level up first? Katana Combat or Average stance, not sure which way to go with this.

[Chdata]

Well there's one PA that has a sort of charged attack that you can hold, a blue ring will enclose on you and turn red when its close. It does more damage if you attack during the red 'ding'.

Sakura-endo

[FerrickX]

Well there's one PA that has a sort of charged attack that you can hold, a blue ring will enclose on you and turn red when its close. It does more damage if you attack during the red 'ding'.

Sakura-endo

2, sakura end and kanran-kikyou

[Metalsnake27]

Alright well, think I decided what I'm going to do in terms of leveling order....

We'll just see what happens. Still trying to figure out how I should put my MAG though. Thinking of a S Attack/DEX hybrid.

[Zenobia]

Braver mag sounds bad mostly because when I finally made the jump from a rod with 300ish T-atk to a 615 T-atk one, and my regular damage only went from like 650 to 700, the extra points seem unimportant unless you want to equip something specific.

Maybe if your mag had a lot of dex on it, it'd make a good difference. idk

Well that's because it doesn't give dex to tech atk only S atk and R atk.

Its not useless just that skill itself is not meant for T atk.

[FerrickX]

so... nothing on my build ? =<

on a side note: its funny on how the katana is slowly becoming a shield and long sword lol

[SociableTyrannosaur]

some math may be in order. if my understanding is correct a 25/0/0/150/0/0/0 will total. 100/75/0/150/0/0/0

So a 75/0/0/100/0/0/0 gets you a 125/50/0/100/0/0/0.

That may be the way to go unless you really don't want to use the bow.

[Chdata]

Well that's because it doesn't give dex to tech atk only S atk and R atk.

Its not useless just that skill itself is not meant for T atk.

Erm, I'm not using force with braver or anything. I'm saying getting extra atk points doesn't really amount to that much extra dmg based on that force thing I noticed before this update was even realized. So I'd give braver mag just one point.

[SociableTyrannosaur]

the mag isn't for the damage though, it's for being able to equip better gear.

[UnLucky]

Well Katana Gear gives you a pretty high crit rate while it's active, so at least during that your Dex is meaningless.

Weak Stance is still useful for a Katana main, but of course there are enemies without (easy) weak points to take advantage of.

[FerrickX]

the mag isn't for the damage though, it's for being able to equip better gear.

this build is pretty much the correct mag build if you want to wear those *9 and up katanas early, because they use S-Atk instead of Dex to equip

[SociableTyrannosaur]

this build is pretty much the correct mag build if you want to wear those *9 and up katanas early, because they use S-Atk instead of Dex to equip

At the same time you dont want to gimp your bows Not sure what to make of it yet,I played for an hour last night and haven't done much of anything in th egame in several months thanks to work.

[FerrickX]

At the same time you dont want to gimp your bows Not sure what to make of it yet,I played for an hour last night and haven't done much of anything in th egame in several months thanks to work.

well bows utilize more of their PAs than the actual bow themself (reason being that the normal accuracy isn't really that good if you aim it like you do a rifle), and 10* bows use Dex, so i guess its fine to go for S-atk

[Narrillnezzurh]

So what would you guys say the priorities are for each of the individual weapon skills? I'm trying to put together a hybrid tree and I'm not sure what's safe to take points out of.

[Zenobia]

Well Katana Gear gives you a pretty high crit rate while it's active, so at least during that your Dex is meaningless.

Weak Stance is still useful for a Katana main, but of course there are enemies without (easy) weak points to take advantage of.

Yeah which really makes me think I can go pure S atk on my mag.

[lacusclyne96]

Maybe my build will look like this:
http://ryuhiroshi.funpic.de/pso2/skillcalc.php?05fb3Ikb3Ikb3Ikb3Ikb3Ikb3Ikb3Ik0lbIn 0000000lb000009b000009b00000ib000000lb000000lOIok2 2XmxIk0000f
katana combat only 20s and cd in 90s through...

[Rien]

This: http://ryuhiroshi.funpic.de/pso2/skillcalc.php?05fb3Ikb3Ikb3Ikb3Ikb3Ikb3Ikb3Ik0lbIn 0000000lb000009b000009b00000ib000000lb000000jebqB4 SdnIksNJ20000

[FerrickX]

Maybe my build will look like this:
http://ryuhiroshi.funpic.de/pso2/skillcalc.php?05fb3Ikb3Ikb3Ikb3Ikb3Ikb3Ikb3Ik0lbIn 0000000lb000009b000009b00000ib000000lb000000lOIok2 2XmxIk0000f
katana combat only 20s and cd in 90s through...

90s isn't long though, and the damage dealt in 20 seconds is worth it... unless if you miss your timing

[cherieinblood]

Average Stance or Weak Stance? Which should I choose?

[Narrillnezzurh]

http://ryuhiroshi.funpic.de/pso2/skillcalc.php?05eNb3Ikb3Ikb3Ikb3Ikb3Ikb3Ikb3Ik0lbI nqnGKsN6JiGA000007b000009b000009b00000ib000000lb00 0000lOdB4Odnm4swI2fAd0006

This is what I'm thinking. Doesn't max a whole lot, but I think all the essentials are covered for both weapons. I haven't actually decided on a stance yet, but those are the points I'll be putting in once I do. My only concern at this point is with scaling on the last few points of each skill - if it's really good I'll be missing out.

[Sgt. Sharina Wize]

I started playing with Braver on my main character and I haven't made my second character yet, but I wanted to know how Braver would play and I have to say, I like it a lot especially with the Katanas.

Here's what I have so far if anyone knows how to make it better by all means tell me.

http://ryuhiroshi.funpic.de/pso2/skillcalc.php?05rOb3Ikb3Ikb3Ikb3Ikb3Ikb3Ikb3Ikfdei p7bIn0000000lb000009bJdJh9kcA0000fdB2QHSfbncDGA000 0Ib000000lb000000lbf4NdnId3nIpib0006

[UnLucky]

http://ryuhiroshi.funpic.de/pso2/skillcalc.php?05eNb3Ikb3Ikb3Ikb3Ikb3Ikb3Ikb3Ik0lbI nqnGKsN6JiGA000007b000009b000009b00000ib000000lb00 0000lOdB4Odnm4swI2fAd0006

This is what I'm thinking. Doesn't max a whole lot, but I think all the essentials are covered for both weapons. I haven't actually decided on a stance yet, but those are the points I'll be putting in once I do. My only concern at this point is with scaling on the last few points of each skill - if it's really good I'll be missing out.

Don't put anything in Rapid Shoot Mastery before maxing Rapid Shoot.

You're getting 89.9% damage with your skills at 3/10 and 8/10 (0.27*1.11=29.97% per arrow) but the optimal way would be with 10/10 and 1/10 for 103% (0.34*1.01=34.34% per arrow).

Honestly I would just ignore the Rapid Shoot bonuses entirely and just keep it at 1 for the spread effect and just use PAs for damage.

[gigawuts]

Don't put anything in Rapid Shoot Mastery before maxing Rapid Shoot.

You're getting 89.9% damage with your skills at 3/10 and 8/10 (0.27*1.11=29.97% per arrow) but the optimal way would be with 10/10 and 1/10 for 103% (0.34*1.01=34.34% per arrow).

Honestly I would just ignore the Rapid Shoot bonuses entirely and just keep it at 1 for the spread effect and just use PAs for damage.

As a mainly katana user this is definitely true, and it's totally worth the 1 SP. The same way katana combat is worth the 1 SP for the chase-down ability alone.

But then even as a bow main I'm thinking it's still only worth 1 SP, because the benefits of going for average stance instead may add up to being better. It depends, really. If rapid shoot benefited PA damage when active it might be better, but meh.

[Ririko]

Got back into the game due to Dewman + Bravers, and gotta say I'm having a lot of fun. That said, altho I realize we're all on the same boat here, am in need of some help/opinions.

I'd like to use the Katana mainly, as I feel that's the playstyle which I liked best, but still keep the bow for utility situations such as PP recovering and what not. I guess Rapid Shot 1 is greatly recommended, right? However, which Katana skills should be pursued first? I got the Gear and Average Stance 1 so far, but am undecided between focusing on the Stances or Katana Combat first. And even between stances, not sure on average vs weak on priority.

Also, as for the MAGs, I got Braver Mag 5. Wondering if there's any sort of general number of DEX one should be looking at, to be able to equip stuff? I guess I'd rather go "enough" DEX and then just focus on S-Atk, with most of the R-Atk coming from dEX, but unsure if possible.

[jooozek]

just get a gunslash for PP regen, bows suck at regenerating PP, even with rapid shooting

[angrysquid]

Do braver and hunter/fighter stances stack ?

[gigawuts]

Stances from all different classes always stack.

[jooozek]

Do braver and hunter/fighter stances stack ?

as long as you aren't trying to launch two different stances from the same class they will always stack

[Augh]

Anyone else having trouble getting the calc to properly display/consider base stat contributions for Braver specfically when Braver is checked as main class?

I think I'm just about done working out my Br/Hu/Fi trees, but there's something very bizarre going on in the calc and the doubt is stopping me from going ahead with finalising the whole thing =(

Pretty sure a 60/60 should not have 91HP and 0PP, that alone seems conclusive but yeah, niggling doubt.

[gigawuts]

Anyone else having trouble getting the calc to properly display/consider base stat contributions for Braver specfically when Braver is checked as main class?

I think I'm just about done working out my Br/Hu/Fi trees, but there's something very bizarre going on in the calc and the doubt is stopping me from going ahead with finalising the whole thing =(

Pretty sure a 60/60 should not have 91HP and 0PP, that alone seems conclusive but yeah, niggling doubt.

The braver stats aren't put in yet. What you see is probably purely from the hunter sub.

[jooozek]

5 threads down in this subsection lies the answer for you

[Neferpitou]

Okay I'm starting to get bored of Braver...

Bow: Slow, inaccurate, only good PA is Kamikaze where you launch yourself. And most importantly... very boring.

The only thing Braver has going for them is Just Reversal Cover, Snatch Step and the Katana. All of which are Melee...

I may just use it as a subclass for Hunter and try to get a nice all class Katana.

P.S. Average stance provides 20% damage to everything. Weak stance provides 40% damage to weak spots but -10% to other spots. Makes you wonder whether the Katana is worth the effort since subbing Fighter is so much better...

[Alisha]

what? bow is amazing. you can increase accuracy on your normals by charging them.

[gigawuts]

I was saying before it even came out that braver is going to be a completely shit subclass. It's 100% a main class. Subbing braver for its damage is like subbing gunner for perfect keeper's damage.

[Dark Emerald EXE]

I like both bow and katana evenly so not sure where to go with this =/ lol

[Zenobia]

Okay I'm starting to get bored of Braver...

Bow: Slow, inaccurate, only good PA is Kamikaze where you launch yourself. And most importantly... very boring.

The only thing Braver has going for them is Just Reversal Cover, Snatch Step and the Katana. All of which are Melee...

I may just use it as a subclass for Hunter and try to get a nice all class Katana.

P.S. Average stance provides 20% damage to everything. Weak stance provides 40% damage to weak spots but -10% to other spots. Makes you wonder whether the Katana is worth the effort since subbing Fighter is so much better...

For bullet bow combos try Gravity Point and Penetrate Arrow loads of fun trust me~!

[SociableTyrannosaur]

Gravity point and the arrow rain one is pretty nice too. Maybe not the best damage, but it looks pretty and works really well. Master shot seems to do some amazing damage too. I haven't had a chance to really see the damage potential on it since I've been running Br/Hu and am only 14/51 but I wouldn't be surprised if master shot gave homing emission a run for its money later on.

[gigawuts]

The problem with that is whatever you're gravitypointing might move while you're prepping your rain to fire before gravity point kicks in - but if you wait until it kicks in, the arrow rain won't work until after gravity point has done its thing.

So I'm finding the best follow up for gravity point is just more gravity point - kind of like other spin, actually.

[Narrillnezzurh]

Don't put anything in Rapid Shoot Mastery before maxing Rapid Shoot.

You're getting 89.9% damage with your skills at 3/10 and 8/10 (0.27*1.11=29.97% per arrow) but the optimal way would be with 10/10 and 1/10 for 103% (0.34*1.01=34.34% per arrow).

Honestly I would just ignore the Rapid Shoot bonuses entirely and just keep it at 1 for the spread effect and just use PAs for damage.

I'm confused. Rapid Shoot Mastery boosts PA damage, no?

[SociableTyrannosaur]

The problem with that is whatever you're gravitypointing might move while you're prepping your rain to fire before gravity point kicks in - but if you wait until it kicks in, the arrow rain won't work until after gravity point has done its thing.

So I'm finding the best follow up for gravity point is just more gravity point - kind of like other spin, actually.

I haven't had any difficulty with the timing as long as I lock on. Basically as soon as gravity point goes off, you let go of the arrow rain. the charge cycle tends to sync up with this pretty well from my experience. Granted I haven't played much, but I haven't had a problem with it yet.

[gigawuts]

I'll give that timing a shot, I didn't really tinker with it too much since it didn't kill much in that combo.

[SociableTyrannosaur]

I'll grant you that it probably looks a lot more devastating than it really is. my Br is low level and my discs are all under level 5. I really haven't been able to sit down and figure out the better PAs and the like yet. Right now I'm still in the "ooh shiny" stage.

[Bellion]

I'm confused. Rapid Shoot Mastery boosts PA damage, no?

I can confirm that Rapid Shoot Mastery does increase PA damage. 9993 crit Penetrate Arrow headshot without RSM. I go over 10k under the same conditions when I do use Rapid Shoot with the Mastery.

[Narrillnezzurh]

Then wouldn't it make sense to put three points in Rapid Shoot and ten in Mastery?

[gigawuts]

That is sounding pretty good, although I wish it was higher.

[Lostbob117]

First Character- Katana: http://ryuhiroshi.funpic.de/pso2/skillcalc.php?05eNb3Ikb3Ikb3Ikb3Ikb3Ikb3Ikb3Ikbnjc g7bInqnGKsN6JiGA000007b000009b000009b00000ib000000 lb000000jebdBk2dnmxsXI20000

Going to focus on the Katana charge moves, activate Katana combat for that 20seconds of 15% more dmg on JAs, plus that with Katana gear. Use Katana Finish right before I finish Katana Combat to maximize my damage to a boss. Plus going to add some Wired Lancing in for some other AOE Dmg(Wild Round OP)

Second Character - Bullet Bow: http://ryuhiroshi.funpic.de/pso2/skillcalc.php?05eNb3Ikb3Ikb3Ikb3Ikb3Ikb3Ikb3Ikfbnf cg7bInqnGKsN6JiGA000007b000009b000009b00000ib00000 0lb000000jebdBkbfmxIkjHX0006

Main weapon of course is Bullet Bow. Rapid is really self explanatory. I'm going to use Gunslash as a side weapon (Additional Bullet!)

[The Walrus]

What's the % on Rapid Mastery again?

[Lostbob117]

What's the % on Rapid Mastery again?

Like 15 maxed I believe, let check... Yup: http://pso2.swiki.jp/index.php?%E3%83%96%E3%83%AC%E3%82%A4%E3%83%90%E3% 83%BC#u96ac41d

[Narrillnezzurh]

I'm going to use Gunslash as a side weapon (Additional Bullet!)

I hadn't really thought about it, but gunslash should play nicely with Braver as well.

[Zenobia]

I'll grant you that it probably looks a lot more devastating than it really is. my Br is low level and my discs are all under level 5. I really haven't been able to sit down and figure out the better PAs and the like yet. Right now I'm still in the "ooh shiny" stage.

Just wanted to say WB Social been awhile.

@Lost is that a 15% overall or a raw 15 in damage?

[gigawuts]

I'd like gunslash as a sidearm more if the SP spent on combat and rapid shoot benefited it, but it does not. It therefor relies on your sub and your stance, which if you're using weak stance is going to be situational or not much. On ranger/hunter you've got 2x WHA, 2x SS, no penalty for missing weak points, and all of HU's bonuses. On braver/hunter? Reduce the WHA bonus if you're using weak stance, remove SS entirely, and then give a penalty for missing weak points, then give some of the HU bonuses because you're more likely to use gears on braver/hunter than ranger/hunter which is very frequently a 100% fury build.

[The Walrus]

Like 15 maxed I believe, let check... Yup: http://pso2.swiki.jp/index.php?%E3%83%96%E3%83%AC%E3%82%A4%E3%83%90%E3% 83%BC#u96ac41d


Thanks.

Hmmm...half tempted to try it out later...

[Lostbob117]

Just wanted to say WB Social been awhile.

@Lost is that a 15% overall or a raw 15 in damage?

15% of course lol

[Belenger]

I have one question and one question only before I decide in which tree to specialize.

I know that Average Stance and Katana Combat work along due to the nature of Katana combat, does the same apply with Weak stance + Katana Combat?

[Zenobia]

I have one question and one question only before I decide in which tree to specialize.

I know that Average Stance and Katana Combat work along due to the nature of Katana combat, does the same apply with Weak stance + Katana Combat?

Yup just remember weak stance is a situational skill it decreases damage ONLY to weak points and decreases damage anywhere else that is not so its mostly meant for bosses.

@Lost thanks mate!

[Belenger]

Yup just remember weak stance is a situational skill it decreases damage ONLY to weak points and decreases damage anywhere else that is not so its mostly meant for bosses.

@Lost thanks mate!

Thanks, and dont worry, it's just going to add to the fun of well positioning.

: )

[Chdata]

If crits are when your hits are blue and bold, I can maintain katana gear almost forever because it recharges itself while activated so as long as you're still attacking stuff it runs out slower, and it's really fast to refill and counter something again.

[gigawuts]

Yep, that's probably intended. It's there to maintain momentum, kind of like sword gear and double saber gear get easier to maintain/refill when you have them filled to the max. Pretty fun stuff. I can't wait for the future PP-related skills :]

[Chdata]

I'm a little confused by katana combat, how is it intended to be used?

[Vandread]

Pop it and any normal attack "dash teleports" you to the target (if within a certain range). Any attack is sped up as well. Use the skill again just before it dissipates (or whenever you like) and your character will sheath the sword generating an AoE-damage circle (quite damn strong at that).

[Chdata]

Ah I see now. That's pretty cool.

[gigawuts]

Also note that you can JA that sheathing AOE attack, so do a step attack for the JA circle first if you're not already in a combo.

[FerrickX]

Ah I see now. That's pretty cool.

and the closer the timer to zero, the higher the damage, best to stop attacking when timer is around 1.5 and get ready to use combat finisher, i think the highest is at 0.1 seconds, in which i did 15k damage (with HU lvl 30 sub and fury active, bra was at lvl 21 and it was hard mode) and destroyed two of dark falz elder's hands in one go

[jooozek]

i did like 32k on 26/5 BR/HU on falz arms weakpoint, had maxed out katana finish

[FerrickX]

i did like 32k on 26/5 BR/HU on falz arms weakpoint, had maxed out katana finish

wow o.o, what's your build ?

[jooozek]

oh, just noticed that i didn't mention weak bullet, sorry, anyway
http://ryuhiroshi.funpic.de/pso2/skillcalc.php?05fb3Ikb3Ikb3Ikb3Ikb3Ikb3Ikb3Ik0lbIn qn0000000ib000009b000009b00000ib000000lb000000jebI o4NdnIcrf2ib0006

[Metalsnake27]

So what do you guys recommend in terms of skill order?

All I did right now is 1 point in average stance, 3 in Katana Combat, and 1 point in each of the Katana boosts and Katana Gear.

I'm wondering if I should max Average Stance first, since it's a more overall all around thing, or just go straight into the Katana Boosts. Gonna get Step Attack, Recover, etc. first though. (I like to get the maneuverability as early as possible)

[UnLucky]

and the closer the timer to zero, the higher the damage, best to stop attacking when timer is around 1.5 and get ready to use combat finisher, i think the highest is at 0.1 seconds, in which i did 15k damage (with HU lvl 30 sub and fury active, bra was at lvl 21 and it was hard mode) and destroyed two of dark falz elder's hands in one go

Are we sure it's entirely dependent on the time left? It does seem like instantly activating it is weaker, but people are saying it's built up based on the damage you've dealt while it's active, or something like that.

Can't test it right now, but all you'd have to do is wait out the timer without doing anything and see if it's stronger just from that.

[FerrickX]

Are we sure it's entirely dependent on the time left? It does seem like instantly activating it is weaker, but people are saying it's built up based on the damage you've dealt while it's active, or something like that.

Can't test it right now, but all you'd have to do is wait out the timer without doing anything and see if it's stronger just from that.

seems like it, because when i did a premature shot (lol), it dishes out around 4-5k only, but when i did it at 0.5 seconds (at this point the ring is already bright red), it dishes out around 6-8k, 15k or more if weakpoint was hit


oh, just noticed that i didn't mention weak bullet, sorry, anyway
http://ryuhiroshi.funpic.de/pso2/skillcalc.php?05fb3Ikb3Ikb3Ikb3Ikb3Ikb3Ikb3Ik0lbIn qn0000000ib000009b000009b00000ib000000lb000000jebI o4NdnIcrf2ib0006

ahhh so that's why, i'll have to try it when someone does weak bullet on them lol

and how's snatch step ?

[UnLucky]

I can confirm that Rapid Shoot Mastery does increase PA damage. 9993 crit Penetrate Arrow headshot without RSM. I go over 10k under the same conditions when I do use Rapid Shoot with the Mastery.

I never even considered it would work for PAs while RS itself does not.

So then would this be good bow main build (http://ryuhiroshi.funpic.de/pso2/skillcalc.php?055rb3Ikb3Ikb3Ikb3Ikb3Ikb3Ikb3Ik6dt7 bInqnGKsN6JiGA000007b000009BJdJ29kcA0000ib00000ib0 00000lb000000jebqB4S6JIHnHQ0006)?

Also does the S/R-Atk from Braver Mag add to your base? Very important.

[FerrickX]

I never even considered it would work for PAs while RS itself does not.

So then would this be good bow main build (http://ryuhiroshi.funpic.de/pso2/skillcalc.php?055rb3Ikb3Ikb3Ikb3Ikb3Ikb3Ikb3Ik6dt7 bInqnGKsN6JiGA000007b000009BJdJ29kcA0000ib00000ib0 00000lb000000jebqB4S6JIHnHQ0006)?

Also does the S/R-Atk from Braver Mag add to your base? Very important.

yes it does

[gigawuts]

Yeah, they granted my wish before I thought to make it. Nice, I wish I had the SP spare for RSM now. Maybe I'll rework my intended build.

[Zenobia]

Yeah im pretty much just gonna main the Katana branch and have a decent bow im to much of a melee and have 1 point into Rapid shoot I believe it gives pp back correct?

[UnLucky]

Then I'm looking at a main katana build (http://ryuhiroshi.funpic.de/pso2/skillcalc.php?05eRb3Ikb3Ikb3Ikb3Ikb3Ikb3Ikb3Ik6dt7 bInqnGWsB6JiGA000007b000009b000009b00000ib000000lb 000000lOqB4SdncKsNcFib0006), where you can take a point out of Katana Combat (-10s cd) for Snatch Step.

Still iffy on that skill. How often do you step through enemies? If you wanted to attack, you'd use your normal swing or Step Attack which is the same damage with PP regen, or counter the enemy to deal more damage and activate Katana Gear if it's full. Any other time you'd Step would be for positioning and not inside mobs.

Also a shame that bow's Step is gimped.

[Narrillnezzurh]

I never even considered it would work for PAs while RS itself does not.

So then would this be good bow main build (http://ryuhiroshi.funpic.de/pso2/skillcalc.php?055rb3Ikb3Ikb3Ikb3Ikb3Ikb3Ikb3Ik6dt7 bInqnGKsN6JiGA000007b000009BJdJ29kcA0000ib00000ib0 00000lb000000jebqB4S6JIHnHQ0006)?

Also does the S/R-Atk from Braver Mag add to your base? Very important.

You don't need Braver Mag if you aren't hybridizing, right? High level bows require r-atk, so build pure r-atk. And I don't know that 50 r-atk during RS would beat having more powerful normal attacks during RS, though I don't know the percentage RS maxes out at.

[Belenger]

Hmm another question regarding stance sets, I'm guessing as per other stances in other classes that Average stance and Weak Stance cancel each other right?

[FerrickX]

You don't need Braver Mag if you aren't hybridizing, right? High level bows require r-atk, so build pure r-atk. And I don't know that 50 r-atk during RS would beat having more powerful normal attacks during RS, though I don't know the percentage RS maxes out at.

why would you want to put points on R-attack though ? and braver mag can give you +50 r-atk in just 5 sp too (that is if your mag has 100 dex)

[UnLucky]

I'm banking on endgame weapon requirements not being so steep as to need 90+ Atk on your mag, which Braver Mag falls just short. A Fo/Fi Newearl with 87 T-Atk on their mag can equip everything except Psycho Wand.

My other assumption is that 175 Dex > 88 Atk in terms of pure damage. For a katana build it is harder to say since the Gear gives you boosted crit rate, but you should see equivalent to superior damage with that much extra Dex.

As for RSU, it's mainly for PA damage, however the extra R-Atk is compared to the target's defense before the damage penalty, so 1 SP for 50 R-Atk or 5 for 100 is worth it compared to a percentage multiplier.

[gigawuts]

I think the current 578 atk lambda weapons only require atk so as to fit with the rest of their series. I don't think it directly implies anything about other weapons either way.

[Maninbluejumpsuit]

Think I'll actually hybrid with this. I was getting ready to buy an extra skill tree for a moment there.

http://ryuhiroshi.funpic.de/pso2/skillcalc.php?05eQb3Ikb3Ikb3Ikb3Ikb3Ikb3Ikb3Ik0lbI nqnGKsN6JiGA000006ebHoGAbnGKIbcAib0000ib000009b000 00ib000000lb000000lOIo4NdncKINJiGD0006

Still need to make up my mind as to how to split 5 points between combat JA, and combat finish. Open to 2nd opinions for this skill tree.

No idea what to do with my mag though. Maybe 88/87 s/r atk. As for affixing, I was hoping we'd get a boss soul for 20 s/r atk, and 2 pp to throw on my units...

edit: nvm link fixed

[KatsujinkenKik]

Weak stance.

While damage is decreased on areas other than weak spot, will it still increase damage if using elemental weakness?

Edit: Nevermind. I read it wrong. Only technics will increase damage regardless of area used if attacking with enemy element weakness.

[Zipzo]

So in my opinion (lvl 43 Braver at the moment only), there are 2 builds for Braver. A Katana build, and a Bow build.

http://ryuhiroshi.funpic.de/pso2/skillcalc.php?05fb3Ikb3Ikb3Ikb3Ikb3Ikb3Ikb3Ik0lbIn 0000000lb000009b000009b00000ib000000lb000000jebdBk 2dncKrIJ20000

Given the charge skills do not apply to Katana "charge" PAs...I don't see how this couldn't irrefutably be the best way to go. You have both stances maxed out for ultimate versatility and choice per situation, all the relative Katana skills maxed in power, and then you can sprinkle the rest in to step/step skills or the dex mastery or whatever. I think maxing Katana combat is pointless because 10 points simply gives you a shorter cd but it's still a high enough cool down that you will only see it used once on any given boss and there's really no point in validating it with "mobbing" because...I mean you don't even need to activate it at all in that case because things die instantly.

Bow mains will do something like this...

http://ryuhiroshi.funpic.de/pso2/skillcalc.php?05fb3Ikb3Ikb3Ikb3Ikb3Ikb3Ikb3Ik0lbIn 0000000lb000009b000009b00000ib000000lb000000lOfk26 JIHnHX0006

You don't necessarily need the special step skills because you're essentially a ranged class. Kamikaze puts you in melee range but you should see little to zero change in your game play not taking step attack/snatch/reversal (unless of course you're bad and you like to get hit a lot regardless of having step, one of the best mobile dodges, then maybe this justifies having reversal). Only Weak stance is really necessary as a bow main because bows are pretty precise in most cases, so you can just leave it off in the case that a weak point is not available then turn it on when it is so. Couple extra points left which I through in to step advance just to give you breathing room on the dodge.

IMO these are pretty close to cookie cutter.

[BlankM]

How does Katana Combat JA bonus work? Does it work for every attack type? Also I assume katana combat doesn't speed up any other weapons but katana?

[Klashikari]

Any JA.
Katana Combat cannot be used with any non katana weapon. If you swap your weapon while under its effect, KC will wear off immediately.

[Chdata]

Just how good are the bows going for you guys? I've been playing mostly just katana only because it seems (or feels) more effective in killing things, unless I want to play it really safe.

Of course with catch step and attack step and +20% heal on just reversal I can still play it safe against mobs of enemies that are dangerous for me.

[Melodys]

After playing with Braver after getting all of it's bow PAs as Br/Ra, I'd say bows are more meant for large hp enemies or bosses. Their best mobbing PA turns out to be a combination of of Gravity Point+ Torrential Rain/ Penetrating Arrow which can miss with mobile enemies and the draw-in distance of the former PA is less than I expected. Ab still trumps of being the best mob killer since it can take advantage of weak stance way more easily and the damage is only 15-20% lower than a Ra/hu's.

[Zenobia]

Going good for me with Bullet bows if I wannah mob I use 1 or 2 Gravity bullets and wipe em out in one shot with Penetrate Arrow it works wonders and hits hard as hell.

Not to mention I was hitting triple digits with this with my Duman no subclass at all in the lvl 10's and so on. I'm lvl 25 now hitting 1k's and up.

Also Gravity Bullet and Penetrate Arrow is a nice compliment to many FO/TE's. This also goes for Torrential Arrow.

[Neferpitou]

Going good for me with Bullet bows if I wannah mob I use 1 or 2 Gravity bullets and wipe em out in one shot with Penetrate Arrow it works wonders and hits hard as hell.

Not to mention I was hitting triple digits with this with my Duman no subclass at all in the lvl 10's and so on. I'm lvl 25 now hitting 1k's and up.

Also Gravity Bullet and Penetrate Arrow is a nice compliment to many FO/TE's. This also goes for Torrential Arrow.

Hmmm interesting... So the Bow can be useful...

[Zenobia]

Hmmm interesting... So the Bow can be useful...

Mhmm it just takes practice that's all.

I also wanna say this here cause I said it in the other thread I made.

Important to note(When you do use Combat finish no enemies can harm you during the animation until you finish it so you can abuse that.

[Limbo_lag]

So in my opinion (lvl 43 Braver at the moment only), there are 2 builds for Braver. A Katana build, and a Bow build.

http://ryuhiroshi.funpic.de/pso2/skillcalc.php?05fb3Ikb3Ikb3Ikb3Ikb3Ikb3Ikb3Ik0lbIn 0000000lb000009b000009b00000ib000000lb000000jebdBk 2dncKrIJ20000

Given the charge skills do not apply to Katana "charge" PAs...I don't see how this couldn't irrefutably be the best way to go. You have both stances maxed out for ultimate versatility and choice per situation, all the relative Katana skills maxed in power, and then you can sprinkle the rest in to step/step skills or the dex mastery or whatever. I think maxing Katana combat is pointless because 10 points simply gives you a shorter cd but it's still a high enough cool down that you will only see it used once on any given boss and there's really no point in validating it with "mobbing" because...I mean you don't even need to activate it at all in that case because things die instantly.

Bow mains will do something like this...

http://ryuhiroshi.funpic.de/pso2/skillcalc.php?05fb3Ikb3Ikb3Ikb3Ikb3Ikb3Ikb3Ik0lbIn 0000000lb000009b000009b00000ib000000lb000000lOfk26 JIHnHX0006

You don't necessarily need the special step skills because you're essentially a ranged class. Kamikaze puts you in melee range but you should see little to zero change in your game play not taking step attack/snatch/reversal (unless of course you're bad and you like to get hit a lot regardless of having step, one of the best mobile dodges, then maybe this justifies having reversal). Only Weak stance is really necessary as a bow main because bows are pretty precise in most cases, so you can just leave it off in the case that a weak point is not available then turn it on when it is so. Couple extra points left which I through in to step advance just to give you breathing room on the dodge.

IMO these are pretty close to cookie cutter.

Looking good. Only thing I might change (personally), would be to take a few points out of the mag boost skill and place them into reducing katana combat cooldown. Logic being that I'd go mostly into S-atk rather than Dex on a katana mag, so the boost wouldnt really be that useful, plus additional cooldown on the combat if you solo (as bosses might take longer), or have a "changeover" boss code.

Also, although I did get the Snatch step ability, the damage seems pretty low for it to be of any good use :/ Anyone have any better luck with it?

[Zenobia]

Looking good. Only thing I might change (personally), would be to take a few points out of the mag boost skill and place them into reducing katana combat cooldown. Logic being that I'd go mostly into S-atk rather than Dex on a katana mag, so the boost wouldnt really be that useful, plus additional cooldown on the combat if you solo (as bosses might take longer), or have a "changeover" boss code.

Also, although I did get the Snatch step ability, the damage seems pretty low for it to be of any good use :/ Anyone have any better luck with it?

No snatch step just sucks and isn't worth it.

[SakoHaruo]

Any JA.
Katana Combat cannot be used with any non katana weapon. If you swap your weapon while under its effect, KC will wear off immediately.

hmm.. has anyone test this with techs set to the palette?

[gigawuts]

I'm also pooling into katana combat, and making use of it as often as possible.

I feel like snatch step is the first part of a more useful ability, but until the rest of it is added it's like using mechgun flips for their damage without any of the skills.

[NoiseHERO]

I like snatch step just because it's nice to see a little damage pop up just for moving around, But it does seem like a skill you could live without. But hey 1 SP for what looks like 1/4th of the damage your normal attacks do isn't bad to me.

I've even finished a lot of small monsters off with snatch step as my last "Attack" on them.

What I'm really wondering for their use though is whether or not it helps build up the gear. Though it might not matter if you're being as aggressive as you should be on a boss either way... @_@

[Zipzo]

Looking good. Only thing I might change (personally), would be to take a few points out of the mag boost skill and place them into reducing katana combat cooldown. Logic being that I'd go mostly into S-atk rather than Dex on a katana mag, so the boost wouldnt really be that useful, plus additional cooldown on the combat if you solo (as bosses might take longer), or have a "changeover" boss code.

Also, although I did get the Snatch step ability, the damage seems pretty low for it to be of any good use :/ Anyone have any better luck with it?

I think snatch step is pretty lame overall...

However, if every single time you dodge during a boss you dodge in to them, technically it's a DPS increase. Problem is that Katana JC is significantly more damage than a snatch so you're better off landing that in the case of an incoming hit but it's worth noting that this can be leagues more difficult in some situations to land than a simple step. This is sort of where Braver earns its skill cap.

Going with a full ability mag, you end up with (I think it was) ~85 S-ATT & R-ATT + the 175 Ability already on there. In my opinion this is a much more significantly effective conglomeration of stats given the Bravers playstyle, and regardless of lower S/R - ATT than their aforementioned pure mag versions a boost in dps because ability raises your damage floor as well, thus equating to higher damage than any other mag setup. It's almost like you have a lvl 345 Mag, and why would you pass that up?

On the subject of Katana Combat...

I'm always somewhat disinterested (no matter how good a skill is) in using valuable skill points in upgrading something that I can't use on demand all the time, or doesn't affect me at all times in the wake of skills that affect me all the time. I think that despite having a shorter CD, you see much more mileage from skills that benefit you 100% of the time you're in combat without question. My opinion would actually be much different if KC did more than shorten the CD, but that's all it does so...

[Limbo_lag]

Going with a full ability mag, you end up with (I think it was) ~85 S-ATT & R-ATT + the 175 Ability already on there. In my opinion this is a much more significantly effective conglomeration of stats given the Bravers playstyle, and regardless of lower S/R - ATT a boost in dps because ability raises your damage floor as well, thus equating to higher damage than any other mag setup. It's almost like you have a lvl 345 Mag, and why would you pass that up?

I think again it comes down to which is better, 85s-atk and 175 ability, or just 175s-atk by itself.

I plan do do something like 115/60, so the boost at level 5 would only give me 30, to an overall of 145/60. Is this better than 175 s-atk? Perhaps. The skill gets better with more ABI on your mag, but if youre only getting something like 60 ABI, the difference between level 1 (30% = 18 ) and level 5 (50% = 30) is only 12 S and R-atk. In such a case, I'd rather spend my 4 points for an extra 40 seconds in combat cooldown reduction, rather than take an additional 12 points in S/R atk.

It also depends on how high your ABI is in the first place - if its too high, we all know it sorta caps, so essentially you'd be left with just 145 s-atk (since, if you've "capped" your ABI, the 60 additional points isnt going to do all that much)

If you're going to main katana, there really isnt much need for R-atk, unless you plan to use bows on the side, in which case sure, the R-atk boost is good. Personally, I'm using my other character for bows, so yeah.


I'm always somewhat disinterested (no matter how good a skill is) in using valuable skill points in upgrading something that I can't use on demand all the time, or doesn't affect me at all times in the wake of skills that affect me all the time. I think that despite having a shorter CD, you see much more mileage from skills that benefit you 100% of the time you're in combat without question. My opinion would actually be much different if KC did more than shorten the CD, but that's all it does so...

Yeah, I can understand that - to each his own in that case. Though, I would have to question whether its needed to max out "Combat JA bonus" and "Combat Finish" in that case, since you'd only really be using it on bosses.

Also, the finishing move has a huge AoE. IMO would be a bit of a waste to solely just use it on bosses.

[gigawuts]

I feel like the Katana Combat skill should also be extending the time you have to use it above 20 seconds, or increasing the range you'll fly, or something.

But I really like the ability, and very frequently find myself looking to use it again with about 50-70 seconds on the clock. So I could already be using it again in many of those cases. I do feel 90 seconds is a bit too long, and would prefer the ability be balanced around using it ever 30-40 seconds though.

[Chdata]

If katana combat lasted longer with the same cooldown, I'd prefer that.

Let's say,

Lv.1 20 seconds with 180 sec cooldown

Lv.10 40 seconds with 90 sec cooldown. (Essentially the same as 20 seconds with 45 cooldown)

Then again maybe it'd be better your way so you're not overusing it at one time.

[Limbo_lag]

Increasing the duration would be awesome. It is kinda short at the moment. Perhaps +1 second per level or something.

[Zipzo]

I think again it comes down to which is better, 85s-atk and 175 ability, or just 175s-atk by itself.

I plan do do something like 115/60, so the boost at level 5 would only give me 30, to an overall of 145/60. Is this better than 175 s-atk? Perhaps. The skill gets better with more ABI on your mag, but if youre only getting something like 60 ABI, the difference between level 1 (30% = 18 ) and level 5 (50% = 30) is only 12 S and R-atk.

Again, also depends on how high your ABI is in the first place - if its too high, we all know it sorta caps, so essentially you'd be left with just 145 s-atk (since, if you've "capped" your ABI, the 60 additional points isnt going to do all that much)

If you're going to main katana, there really isnt much need for R-atk, unless you plan to use bows on the side, in which case sure, the R-atk boost is good.



Yeah, I can understand that - to each his own in that case. Though, I would have to question whether its needed to max out combat JA bonus and Finish in that case, since you'd only really be using it on bosses.

Well the skill doesn't increase the duration, so maxing those skills seems like a good use of points because no matter how many points you have in KC, it's going to last 20 seconds, and you're really only going to get one use out of it no matter how many points you have in the skill, so you might as well make those 20 seconds count, right?


I feel like the Katana Combat skill should also be extending the time you have to use it above 20 seconds, or increasing the range you'll fly, or something.

But I really like the ability, and very frequently find myself looking to use it again with about 50-70 seconds on the clock. So I could already be using it again in many of those cases. I do feel 90 seconds is a bit too long, and would prefer the ability be balanced around using it ever 30-40 seconds though.

Ultimately it comes to this. If the skill increased the duration, that would obviously be a clinching factor. The skill would need to be maxed no matter the logic.

[Mizumi323]

So after looking over the Braver skill tree for a while, this is the build that I'll be using: http://ryuhiroshi.funpic.de/pso2/skillcalc.php?05vdb3Ikb3Ikb3Ikb3Ikb3Ikb3Ikb3Ikb3iE IE7bIn0000000lb000009b000009b00000ib000000j4Odq5di dI2cF4QHN4NI20000lOIo4SdnmxISI2fGK0006

It's essentially a hybrid build, with a little extra put into Bows. I decided to forgo weak stance in favor of average stance since, while Weak Stance gives a 40% boost vs Average's 20%, Weak Stance gives a -10% (90%) modifier to non-weak spots. This makes Braver's DPS with Average Stance a little higher than with Weak Stance, I'd think. ;3

[gigawuts]

Well, average stance is best to always have enabled. Weak stance is best when you're hitting weak points - which is frequently with ranged due to the headshots and ability to be precise and such, but melee doesn't have those advantages as often.

So for striking you'd only enable it when you know weak points are ready to be hit. A few of those situations off the top of my head:
1. elder falz (lol)
2. any time virtually any boss is downed
3. a good number of darkers, due to their cores (hnnf killing waves of fish with katanas is way too satisfying)
4. a good number of bosses have weak points that melee can benefit from that are always reachable, although may not be super easy to focus on

I'm disappointed to hear the red circley katana PA's do not benefit from the stance charge skills, but also relieved because I'm not missing out by not grabbing them. That's valuable SP I'd benefit more from spending elsewhere.

[Mizumi323]

Well, average stance is best to always have enabled. Weak stance is best when you're hitting weak points - which is frequently with ranged due to the headshots and ability to be precise and such, but melee doesn't have those advantages as often.

So for striking you'd only enable it when you know weak points are ready to be hit. A few of those situations off the top of my head:
1. elder falz (lol)
2. any time virtually any boss is downed
3. a good number of darkers, due to their cores (hnnf killing waves of fish with katanas is way too satisfying)
4. a good number of bosses have weak points that melee can benefit from, although may not be super easy to focus on


I agree pretty much completely. Since I hardly ever go into the first-person mode for the Bow (and I'm generally lazy when it comes to aiming for weak points with melee), I opted to go with the simple DPS increase that Average offers lol. Plus, things with their weak points exposed tend to die fast enough for me not to care about an extra 20% damage anyway.

[gigawuts]

Yeah, I'm torn. 20% damage does add up, and I'd rather be killing trash mobs more easily than boss weak points since I rarely solo and the plain convenience of not having to use twice as many PA's because something survived by 1 hp is an attractive prospect. But, then, for damage where it counts weak stance hits things harder.

I guess for bosses it comes down to:
Break parts faster
Hit weak points harder

[Zipzo]

So I've done some tinkering...

If you would prefer to run a Striking Mag instead of a full ability mag (which rarely anyone has and there's probably only a minority of people who are going to take advantage of the opportunity to raise one)...you can get a tree looking like this.

http://ryuhiroshi.funpic.de/pso2/skillcalc.php?05fb3Ikb3Ikb3Ikb3Ikb3Ikb3Ikb3Ik0lbIn 0000000lb000009b000009b00000ib000000lb000000lOdB4N dncKsNJ20000

This gets you both stances maxed and KC maxed.

This is probably the way to go for anyone who can't afford to start a new pure ability mag, or CBA'd. I think J.recovery is a much better point spent than snatch. It's a good "I fucked up trying to get K-Gear running" cover-up skill.

Barring all of this, I want to strongly recommend against "hybrid" builds...I think your potential can only go down splitting points between all the stances and all the weapon trees. Pick your poison, Katana or Bow. If you want both, get another tree.

[Limbo_lag]

^ Yeah, pretty much what I ended up with too. Wondering whether I should go rare mastery or reversal cover....

[gigawuts]

This is what I'm considering right now: http://ryuhiroshi.funpic.de/pso2/skillcalc.php?05fb3Ikb3Ikb3Ikb3Ikb3Ikb3Ikb3Ik0lbIn 0000000lb000009b000009b00000ib000000lb000000jebqB4 NdncKsNpFib0006
(Any tree I think I like winds up changing within the day, so yeah)

I love JR Cover 5. It is fantastic. That extra 10% really, really pulls through. I already have snatch step, and I do like the little flinch it inflicts when you step through an enemy. Weak Stance is only 35%, but that's more than the 21% on average stance.

What I'm waiting for is the next wave of skills to bring this all together. Right now we're very clearly looking at a barebones framework for a more refined tree layout with unique abilities. I know there's something about recovering PP when dealing crits, so that average crit skill may wind up being a must-have for katana users. Weird, right?

[Alisha]

heres what i'm looking at for a pure bow braver build. be aware there's some point dump in both tree's
http://ryuhiroshi.funpic.de/pso2/skillcalc.php?05eQb3Ikb3Ikb3Ikb3Ikb3Ikb3Ikb3Ikfcvi Y7bInqnGKcA4QIsINcAfGA000007b000009b000009b00000ib 000000lb000000lOIo4NcnmxIkjGK0006

[Limbo_lag]

I know there's something about recovering PP when dealing crits, so that average crit skill may wind up being a must-have for katana users. Weird, right?

:-( If that happened, we'd probably only be able to max out one stance. Might be a good time to pick one you like.

[Zipzo]

This is what I'm considering right now: http://ryuhiroshi.funpic.de/pso2/skillcalc.php?05fb3Ikb3Ikb3Ikb3Ikb3Ikb3Ikb3Ik0lbIn 0000000lb000009b000009b00000ib000000lb000000jebqB4 NdncKsNpFib0006
(Any tree I think I like winds up changing within the day, so yeah)

I love JR Cover 5. It is fantastic. That extra 10% really, really pulls through. I already have snatch step, and I do like the little flinch it inflicts when you step through an enemy. Weak Stance is only 35%, but that's more than the 21% on average stance.

What I'm waiting for is the next wave of skills to bring this all together. Right now we're very clearly looking at a barebones framework for a more refined tree layout with unique abilities. I know there's something about recovering PP when dealing crits, so that average crit skill may wind up being a must-have for katana users. Weird, right?

I understand what you've done but I question a point expenditure that is based on being knocked down accidentally as opposed to maximizing your potential weak point damage. Maybe pull from Katana combat instead? Five points in KC still nets you a decently shorter CD, if you must have snatch.

[gigawuts]

I'm always getting knocked down, turns out I'm programmed to act like a human

edit: This is what I'm leaning towards now, but may not necessarily keep. I'd like to see how maxed KC flows in regular gameplay, so I'm heading straight for it right now. If it doesn't work out I'll use a reset and change it up again.

[layn2321]

I understand what you've done but I question a point expenditure that is based on being knocked down accidentally as opposed to maximizing your potential weak point damage. Maybe pull from Katana combat instead? Five points in KC still nets you a decently shorter CD, if you must have snatch.

Considering all the multipliers in effect through the hunter tree as well, that additional 5% is likely closer to 2% total damage, if that. I don't think it's unreasonable for some to prefer a bit of added cushion for losing an extremely negligible amount of damage. This isn't chess, personal playstyle will always play a factor.

[Zipzo]

Considering all the multipliers in effect through the hunter tree as well, that additional 5% is likely closer to 2% total damage, if that. I don't think it's unreasonable for some to prefer a bit of added cushion for losing an extremely negligible amount of damage. This isn't chess, personal playstyle will always play a factor.

An increase of damage is an increase of damage. JRC doesn't change or modify your playstyle, it adds a passive effect that is good for covering your ass.

The point I'm making is that in one direction you're maximizing your potential damage, in the other you are subtracting from that massive potential, on an assumption that you plan to get hit. There's always going to be fights where you don't mess up horribly and get smacked around, probably more frequent than the former, and in those fights you will be doing the Bravers maximum damage as long as you have Weak maxed. Even in fights where you are getting smacked around, it only really makes its presence significantly known if it occurs during a window of health where you otherwise might have used a mate to heal once you have stood up, because even if you do use JRC when you're below 50%, it's still not going to stop you from using an item because you're basically in danger of getting one shot if you're below a certain % so there's almost no sense in not using an item anyway.

It's certainly not unreasonable, I never said that, I just think there are more reasonable ways to max out JR than taking from your most potentially powerful stance.

[Maninbluejumpsuit]

What were the R-atk values of rapid shot up? Can't remember if they were decent at least.

[NoiseHERO]

With this class being based around staying in combat for maximum DPS(similar to hunter and fighter but you have more things to juggle while needing to be fast for your DPS, instead of just aiming a D'arch) if I'm getting smacked across a room by a minibossand my HP is kinda low, I'd like to know that I'll be saving the time spent on a monomate.

I've also considered a number of healing mag abilities and maybe even auto-mate on hunter in combination with this skill to remove most of your worries of your HP while slashing at an enemies 9001 times.

but that'd sacrifice some really good damage helping hunter skills so it'd repend on how well staying in combat is more effective than simply having more damage. And as well you should be abusing braver's counter to stay in combat right? @_@

Guess I have 8 reset tickets to eventually find out if I like that setup after I level more...

I'm not the best skilled guy, may as well try and build a strategy around that... without spending 124124 mil on super defense units sacrificing PP.

/continues boredom planning to myself. <_<;

[gigawuts]

Well, just to reiterate the general situations where weak stance would be useful to me (mainly katanas, with a side of bows)
Elder falz: my 5% damage will not mean we don't finish before time runs out
Darker weak points: 5% damage will probably not mean needing another attack - and if it does, then that sucks I guess
Downed bosses: I basically never have to use the entire time that a boss is downed to kill it - if I did, I'd just need to switch back to average stance again afterwards anyway to avoid the penalty
Ordinary boss weak points: This is the one situation where it's actually problematic. Some bosses have reachable weak points that you can, for the most part, focus on most of the time. The 5% would be missed here, but this leads to KC's shorter cooldown.

Generally, melee combat isn't about sustained strikes on weak points. It's about sustained strikes on normal points, and burst damage when a boss stands still. Katana Combat excels at both, plus has a huge strike that you can use on everything in an area or aim specifically at a weak point, if the opportunity presents itself (presumably because you made it present itself, i.e. downed the boss or whatnot). That AOE burst is quite powerful, and using it multiple times in the right instances will stack up considerably. This, plus the chasing effect is exceptionally useful when you need it, so having that more often is great.

The cooldown on level 3 KC doesn't really line up nicely with a standard expectable timing for a boss being vulnerable multiple times over the course of a fight. Usually I get ready to want to use it again just about when it would have cooled down at level 10, so it might work out nicely.

And yes, I plan to make mistakes, because this is PSO2 and there are other games I have that I play when I want to play something flawlessly. I, and most other melee users, take hits. JRC tops off my health for each knockdown, saving me a whole lot of time (and money LOL) on mates.

[layn2321]

An increase of damage is an increase of damage. JRC doesn't change or modify your playstyle, it adds a passive effect that is good for covering your ass.

The point I'm making is that in one direction you're maximizing your potential damage, in the other you are subtracting from that massive potential, on an assumption that you plan to get hit. There's always going to be fights where you don't mess up horribly and get smacked around, probably more frequent than the former, and in those fights you will be doing the Bravers maximum damage as long as you have Weak maxed. Even in fights where you are getting smacked around, it only really makes its presence significantly known if it occurs during a window of health where you otherwise might have used a mate to heal once you have stood up, because even if you do use JRC when you're below 50%, it's still not going to stop you from using an item because you're basically in danger of getting one shot if you're below a certain % so there's almost no sense in not using an item anyway.

It's certainly not unreasonable, I never said that, I just think there are more reasonable ways to max out JR than taking from your most potentially powerful stance.

Dead players do 0 damage, and some get knocked down more than others. Playstyle affects that, and JRC is better or worse depending on your playstyle and performance. Damage is damage, but it's very possible that many players will save more time from JRC than they lose from the additional damage. Additionally, dying is far more obstructive in solo play, so playstyle can also impact the weight of such small increases to survivability. And even if it did not save him time, it may make him less frustrated by avoiding the occasional death. The only real objective, after all, is to have fun -- for some, it may be more fun to kill something a few seconds faster. For some, it is not. That's part of playstyle.

Weak stance's contribution is also dependent on performance and playstyle. Another poster a few posts up mentioned a build where they focused on Average Stance despite using bows because they knew that their playstyle, lazy as some may refer to it, favors a constant bonus that does not depend on their skill. While I'm sure some would look down on such a choice, or criticize a player for picking JRC over more damge on the basis that "they shouldn't be getting knocked down," I'd say they both did more than most by thinking about the skills and tweaking them for the way they play. Honestly, we could use a little more of that and little less of "this is the right build, pick it or you're doing it wrong."

And something can't be "more reasonable." It can either be explained through logic, or it cannot.

[Zenobia]

So I am still trying to figure out is a pure dex mag the way to go for this class?

[Zipzo]

Dead players do 0 damage, and some get knocked down more than others. Playstyle affects that, and JRC is better or worse depending on your playstyle and performance. Damage is damage, but it's very possible that many players will save more time from JRC than they lose from the additional damage. Additionally, dying is far more obstructive in solo play, so playstyle can also impact the weight of such small increases to survivability. And even if it did not save him time, it may make him less frustrated by avoiding the occasional death. The only real objective, after all, is to have fun -- for some, it may be more fun to kill something a few seconds faster. For some, it is not. That's part of playstyle.

Weak stance's contribution is also dependent on performance and playstyle. Another poster a few posts up mentioned a build where they focused on Average Stance despite using bows because they knew that their playstyle, lazy as some may refer to it, favors a constant bonus that does not depend on their skill. While I'm sure some would look down on such a choice, or criticize a player for picking JRC over more damge on the basis that "they shouldn't be getting knocked down," I'd say they both did more than most by thinking about the skills and tweaking them for the way they play. Honestly, we could use a little more of that and little less of "this is the right build, pick it or you're doing it wrong."

And something can't be "more reasonable." It can either be explained through logic, or it cannot.

Listen...I understand play style plays a part, but this game doesn't have an unreachable skill ceiling. You are either playing at maximum capacity or you aren't in most cases.

There's no heart of the cards or power of friendship that's going to make you do more damage because of your "play style" if you make sub-par skill choices (not referring to Gigawutts tree as sub-par, as in general I think his tree is fine I just have a small disagreement on a certain detail).

Something absolutely can be "more reasonable". It's certainly not black and white as you wish to infer.

[Alisha]

looks like im the lone wolf on bow build again like i was for a long time with te/melee :o

[gigawuts]

So I am still trying to figure out is a pure dex mag the way to go for this class?

I don't think anyone really knows yet, since 10*'s aren't really dropping much and it's not known what future weapons will need. It does depend on what you want to do.

I'd say if you really plan on using both weapons an equal amount, and you're alright with the idea, a pure dex mag may be a good investment. Not only for now, but for the future - I'm expecting a ranged/tech and possibly a striking/tech class (if they want to REALLY make techer feel unloved).

Otherwise, if you have a mag with a bit of dex, I'd just go with that. I'm toting my 130-ish satk & 30 dex mag and everything's going great so far. I don't know how great it'll be going with level 60 enemies and gear, but eh.

edit:

looks like im the lone wolf on bow build again like i was for a long time with te/melee :o
I'm loving bows, I just don't think they're standalone. I don't think katanas are standalone either, I find they go together even better than most other class weapons do. Which is really surprising to me, honestly. I didn't expect something new that played with this much balance from Sega this far into the game's life.

[Zenobia]

I don't think anyone really knows yet, since 10*'s aren't really dropping much and it's not known what future weapons will need. It does depend on what you want to do.

I'd say if you really plan on using both weapons an equal amount, and you're alright with the idea, a pure dex mag may be a good investment. Not only for now, but for the future - I'm expecting a ranged/tech and possibly a striking/tech class (if they want to REALLY make techer feel unloved).

Otherwise, if you have a mag with a bit of dex, I'd just go with that. I'm toting my 130-ish satk & 30 dex mag and everything's going great so far. I don't know how great it'll be going with level 60 enemies and gear, but eh.

Hmm yeah was thinking that I WAS about to start plugin my mag full of dem photon arts. I guess I will just keep feeding it melee weps till it maxes out, Bullet Bow is good in damage without investing into the right side of the tree so I can live with that.

[Zipzo]

So I am still trying to figure out is a pure dex mag the way to go for this class?

The question that I think the class boils down to is which is better between...

Strike Mag + Full KC VS Full Ability Mag + Partial KC

The stats you gain from having a full ability mag are a dps increase, but you have to reason it against the circumstance in which having 10 points in KC is a dps increase.

Stats from a mag (or in this case, the mag skill in the BR tree) are on you all the time. You are constantly receiving the benefit of those stats, and thus a 100% up time in its bonus.

If you decide to max KC instead and go with a striking mag, you lose out on a fair bit of stats, in a questionable situation of certainty.

Allow me to explain...

A lower CD on KC is only a DPS increase if the encounter you are currently in lasts you until the skill returns from cooldown after the first time you use it, and it could still be debated that you ecked out comparable damage due to higher stats given you went the full ability route. The skill doesn't receive increased duration for points spent, only lowers the CD and not by much. Since it only lasts 20 seconds, most bravers are saving it for that "sweet spot" moment, or that special Weak Bullet so they can make the most out of their finisher.

Bravers are not simply popping it the moment it is off cooldown, it needs to be properly timed to be used to its maximum potential, so more often than not you are actually wasting at least a few of those points spent lowering its cooldown unless you have it up the second it comes off cooldown, and that's even assuming the fight lasts that long...which it almost never and rarely does in this game.

Maxing KC has the potential of you essentially having wasted 7 of your points more often than having a full ability mag has the potential of you wasting any points you've spent getting the dps increase from the related skills involved.

This is why I think a pure ability mag build that takes points away from KC is superior. Now, in terms of Bow...it's a little different. The choice isn't as difficult as a bow user because you actually want the charge skills. As a bow user you're doing something like this...

http://ryuhiroshi.funpic.de/pso2/skillcalc.php?05fb3Ikb3Ikb3Ikb3Ikb3Ikb3Ikb3Ik0lbIn 0000000lb000009b000009b00000ib000000lb000000lOIb4N 6JIHnHX0006

[Zenobia]

Yeah I never considered maxing KC really only saw it as a situational skill serving bosses really that and WS.

As I was thinking of just feeding my mag melee weps and letting the striking and dex fill up without being special with allocating points for the two I was just gonna let it hit max that way instead.

[UnLucky]

I've reasoned that 20 Atk for 1 SP is worthwhile. To achieve that, you need at least 66 Dex on your mag for a single point in Braver Mag to be worth spending.

Now that gets a bit hazy if you consider 100 Atk for 5 SP worthwhile, since you'd need 200 Dex on your mag to achieve that much.

However, Dex is not worthless. It's exactly as good as every Atk stat combined, except if you have "enough" Dex, and except when you land a critical hit.

That's why I say to get a pure Dex mag if you can spare the 5 SP in your build. Do NOT intentionally sacrifice any further Atk stats for Dex, such as in affixing or further stat points (until that other Dex conversion skill comes out). You will most likely hit the Dex cap that way.

[Zenobia]

I've reasoned that 20 Atk for 1 SP is worthwhile. To achieve that, you need at least 66 Dex on your mag for a single point in Braver Mag to be worth spending.

Now that gets a bit hazy if you consider 100 Atk for 5 SP worthwhile, since you'd need 200 Dex on your mag to achieve that much.

However, Dex is not worthless. It's exactly as good as every Atk stat combined, except if you have "enough" Dex, and except when you land a critical hit.

That's why I say to get a pure Dex mag if you can spare the 5 SP in your build. Do NOT intentionally sacrifice any further Atk stats for Dex, such as in affixing or further stat points (until that other Dex conversion skill comes out). You will most likely hit the Dex cap that way.

Just confirming are you talking about Braver Mag?

And man I really wanna see Dumans dex stats at 60 for both BRA/HU srsly >.>

[Zipzo]

Just confirming are you talking about Braver Mag?

He is.

[BlankM]

How much is "enough" dex? I assume its different for each enemy/enemy level?

[Dark Emerald EXE]

That's why I say to get a pure Dex mag if you can spare the 5 SP in your build. Do NOT intentionally sacrifice any further Atk stats for Dex, such as in affixing or further stat points (until that other Dex conversion skill comes out). You will most likely hit the Dex cap that way.


In that perspective (provided one does a dex mag)
What would you see the tree looking like for this scenario?

[layn2321]

Listen...I understand play style plays a part, but this game doesn't have an unreachable skill ceiling. You are either playing at maximum capacity or you aren't in most cases.

There's no heart of the cards or power of friendship that's going to make you do more damage because of your "play style" if you make sub-par skill choices (not referring to Gigawutts tree as sub-par, as in general I think his tree is fine I just have a small disagreement on a certain detail).

Something absolutely can be "more reasonable". It's certainly not black and white as you wish to infer.

Listen...

I mentioned nothing about the power of friendship, in fact what I referenced would be based on numbers. Whether skill choices are sub-par or not is dependent on the player and their style. you can tell yourself you're right, they're wrong all you want, but you can pick different builds and both be right. You might complete the mission faster than they do, but that would be based on your performance as well as your skill choices. Even if you insist on basing everything off the speed of killing, they may kill faster with a different set of choices, based on their performance and their playstyle. This isn't magic, it's not the "power of friendship," it's just factual numbers.

And you might want to check the definition of reason. What you're trying to say isn't that it's "more reasonable," which is a nonsensical phrase that makes as much sense as saying one sphere is "more spherical" than another. What you're trying to say is that you think your build is better in more situations. And that may simultaneously be true for you and false for many others.

I think it's great to have discussions about skill choices, but I don't think the choices are so black and white as to say "these are the two best builds, one for katana and one for bows" as you mentioned earlier. It simple isn't going to be the case for everyone, and that's not an opinion or based on some silly "power of friendship" as you want to believe, that's simply the factual result of the game being played by people and not computers. And I don't only mean the difference in skill, but the difference in subjective fun, because the only real point of the game is to have fun after all.

[UnLucky]

Well a sphere is definitely more spherical than a cube.

Anyway, he's just saying there might be a better skill to take points from than Weak Stance Up if you wanted to fill up JR Cover. WSU increases your maximum achievable output. KC possibly increases your average output if you use it often. Braver Mag is worthless to a pure Atk spec.

Which one is the most reasonable skill to leech points from?

JRC can help you stay in the game without pausing to heal or lay on the ground dead. So can dodging and countering. That's a difference in playstyle.

[Zipzo]

Listen...

I mentioned nothing about the power of friendship, in fact what I referenced would be based on numbers. Whether skill choices are sub-par or not is dependent on the player and their style. you can tell yourself you're right, they're wrong all you want, but you can pick different builds and both be right. You might complete the mission faster than they do, but that would be based on your performance as well as your skill choices. Even if you insist on basing everything off the speed of killing, they may kill faster with a different set of choices, based on their performance and their playstyle. This isn't magic, it's not the "power of friendship," it's just factual numbers.

And you might want to check the definition of reason. What you're trying to say isn't that it's "more reasonable," which is a nonsensical phrase that makes as much sense as saying one sphere is "more spherical" than another. What you're trying to say is that you think your build is better in more situations. And that may simultaneously be true for you and false for many others.

I think it's great to have discussions about skill choices, but I don't think the choices are so black and white as to say "these are the two best builds, one for katana and one for bows" as you mentioned earlier. It simple isn't going to be the case for everyone, and that's not an opinion or based on some silly "power of friendship" as you want to believe, that's simply the factual result of the game being played by people and not computers. And I don't only mean the difference in skill, but the difference in subjective fun, because the only real point of the game is to have fun after all.

There's always a bonehead like you in these types of threads who thinks play style trumps every single % of game mechanic that's available for a player to take advantage of.

Numbers are numbers, unless SEGA is lying to us, there is such thing as a better choice in a lot of cases unless your build is specialized for a certain purpose. There isn't an infinite amount of room for your play style to be as good as what is defined as being the "best". This isn't Eve Online or something where you can get ahead purely because of intelligent economical practice that trumps others.

Take force for example. If you don't take PP charge revival, you're dumb. You can cry "waaah play style" all day, but you are never going to be able to justify with credible reasoning as to how you are at all performing at the level that any player who takes that skill is. Even terrible players, in this skills case.

I'm all for people having fun, I just don't like people preaching that something is good when it isn't, or the other way around. If something is good and you don't prefer to take advantage of it because of play style choices, go ahead and play about your merry ways, it's your world. I support your diversity and choice to do something different. I play TE/HU for heavens sake.

[Maninbluejumpsuit]

Ok, new build idea centered on bows.

http://ryuhiroshi.funpic.de/pso2/skillcalc.php?05eQb3Ikb3Ikb3Ikb3Ikb3Ikb3Ikb3Ik0lbI nqnGKsN6JiGA000006ebHoGAbnGKIbcAib0000ib000009b000 00ib000000lb000000lOIo4NdnIkINJbHnGD0006

Got everything I could for bullet bow weak point shredding, remainder into the more important required minimums for katanas + maxed average stance 1.

One point remaining for either rapid shot up (50 r atk for the duration for one point is almost on par with ~3% extra damage), or combat JA.

[Gheert]

So uhh... maxed dex might not be the way to go. I am wishing I made something to automate this, but check this out:
Assuming PSO2 Rounds Down...

S/R Atk : Dex; BR Mag Skill Bonus + Attack = Final S/R Atk

1:174; 87+1=88
2:173; 86+2=88
3:172; 86+3=89
4:171; 85+4=89
5:170; 85+5=90
6:169; 84+6=90
7:168; 84+7=91
8:167; 83+8=91
9:166; 83+9=91
10:165; 82+10=92
11:174; 87+1=88
12:173; 86+2=88
13:172; 86+3=89
14:171; 85+4=89
15:170; 85+5=90
16:169; 84+6=90
17:168; 84+7=91
18:167; 83+8=91
19:166; 83+9=91
20:165; 82+10=92
21:164; 82+11=93
22:163; 81+12=93
23:162; 81+13=94
24:161; 80+14=94

... Blah Blah later....
60:115; 57+60=117

... A little more Later
70:105; 52+70=122

[Narrillnezzurh]

Doesn't Braver mag grant 50% of your mag's dex to both s-atk and r-atk? If so, there's no reason to be halving the values in your "table."

[Gheert]

That halving is the bonus. I was trying to say, as far as I understand:

A person with a Mag that has 70 S Atk and 105 DEX will walk away with 122 S Atk, 52 R Atk, and 105 Dex, in the end.

"70:105; 52+70=122"

Would I be right in assuming this?

On Second thought, I think I went about that the wrong way...

What I am really trying to say is by the looks of things, it looks like it kinda balances itself between your stat bonuses. If you're a hybrid player, get the BRM. If you want a higher damage cap, still go pure and hope to god the dex comes along later to equip the stuff you want to equip... is what I think I am seeing.

[Klashikari]

The question that I think the class boils down to is which is better between...

Strike Mag + Full KC VS Full Ability Mag + Partial KC

The stats you gain from having a full ability mag are a dps increase, but you have to reason it against the circumstance in which having 10 points in KC is a dps increase.

Stats from a mag (or in this case, the mag skill in the BR tree) are on you all the time. You are constantly receiving the benefit of those stats, and thus a 100% up time in its bonus.

If you decide to max KC instead and go with a striking mag, you lose out on a fair bit of stats, in a questionable situation of certainty.
Your reasoning doesn't work with a Katana centred build (which is the actual context of the discussion, since you compare full KC VS dex mag partial KC)
Going with a dex mag makes you lose 87.5 S atk. That's a major loss in term of stats, that is only balanced out with the 87.5 R atk, which is irrelevant for Katana only users, and it also involves part of incertainty considering you have to consider the player's performance with the bow in the equation, which boils down to "how often you use the bow VS the katana".

Of course, Dext affects your min dmg output, except that from what people have noticed so far, after the 400 dext benchmark, the benefit of dexterity isn't exactly that obvious anymore.

Instead of maxing out KC, if you can add more SP in Average/Weak stances / UP , you have consistent dps increase, unlike Braver Mag. With the extra SP you have, you can afford "comfort" skills such like Just Reversal Recover. Albeit it doesn't increase your DPS, it actually contribute to your performance, and you still deal more damage as melee from the premise of having a S atk mag instead of dex mag.
That being said, if you sacrifice Weak Stance UP (considering how situational weak stance is while using a katana), you actually can combine KC maxed with Braver Mag AND JR cover (provided you don't put 1 in RS. At worst you can just put 9 in KC).

From what I can see, Braver Mag is a skill that alleviate the dps loss by having more dext on your mag for equipping high levels weapons, provided you need a hefty dext stats. But by no means it "increase your dps" from a Katana user perspective. It is however a good compromise for a hybrid player.

[Zipzo]

Your reasoning doesn't work with a Katana centred build (which is the actual context of the discussion, since you compare full KC VS dex mag partial KC)
Going with a dex mag makes you lose 87.5 S atk. That's a major loss in term of stats, that is only balanced out with the 87.5 R atk, which is irrelevant for Katana only users, and it also involves part of incertainty considering you have to consider the player's performance with the bow in the equation, which boils down to "how often you use the bow VS the katana".

Of course, Dext affects your min dmg output, except that from what people have noticed so far, after the 400 dext benchmark, the benefit of dexterity isn't exactly that obvious anymore.

Instead of maxing out KC, if you can add more SP in Average/Weak stances / UP , you have consistent dps increase, unlike Braver Mag. With the extra SP you have, you can afford "comfort" skills such like Just Reversal Recover. Albeit it doesn't increase your DPS, it actually contribute to your performance, and you still deal more damage as melee from the premise of having a S atk mag instead of dex mag.
That being said, if you sacrifice Weak Stance UP (considering how situational weak stance is while using a katana), you actually can combine KC maxed with Braver Mag AND JR cover (provided you don't put 1 in RS. At worst you can just put 9 in KC).

From what I can see, Braver Mag is a skill that alleviate the dps loss by having more dext on your mag for equipping high levels weapons, provided you need a hefty dext stats. But by no means it "increase your dps" from a Katana user perspective. It is however a good compromise for a hybrid player.

You invalidated most of your post by the bolded part, and further later on.

First of all, a point of ability is equal in DPS to a point of S-ATT. Even if the ability cap is 400 (of which nobody actually knows for sure), you sure as heck aren't sitting at 400 with only a lvl 175 mag because I doubt you have it anywhere else on your gear, either on your affixes or your set bonuses, and even if you do, I doubt you're pushing 400.

I've honestly beaten the topic to death with other folks over Skype on the matter, but there are many logical reasons why the 7 extra points in KC can be a waste in comparison to more stats.

Braver Mag also does not add to your base stats, which is what gear requirements go off, so it has absolutely nothing to do with equipping gear sooner unless you're specifically referring to dex requirement weapons...

[Alisha]

if anyone is familliar with mechguns in pso i think rapid shoot has serious potential. i need to revise though because standing snipe sucks with bow.

[gigawuts]

if anyone is familliar with mechguns in pso i think rapid shoot has serious potential. i need to revise though because standing snipe sucks with bow.

So I'm not the only one that noticed bows play a lot like mechguns should have. Interesting.

I really like bows. They cover a lot of bases katanas simply don't. They finally came up with a solution to melee's inherent ranged weaknesses - giving it a ranged weapon that it can use easily and to good effect.

Which, in truth, was very badly needed. The homing arrows PA is so incredibly useful when you just need to hit a target. Melee really felt like it had a gaping hole in its equipment, which bows are filling very nicely.

[Klashikari]

You invalidated most of your post by the bolded part, and further later on.

First of all, a point of ability is equal in DPS to a point of S-ATT. Even if the ability cap is 400 (of which nobody actually knows for sure), you sure as heck aren't sitting at 400 with only a lvl 175 mag because I doubt you have it anywhere else on your gear, either on your affixes or your set bonuses, and even if you do, I doubt you're pushing 400.
There isn't really that much of test going on, but what I implied was overal 400 dext, which is arguably achievable without any mag of course.
I'm however interested to see formula/source of that assumption that 1 dex = 1 S-Atk/R-Atk/T-atk, not like I doubt it or anything, but I didn't see people raving about it.

I've honestly beaten the topic to death with other folks over Skype on the matter, but there are many logical reasons why the 7 extra points in KC can be a waste in comparison to more stats.I don't believe maxing KC is the absolute best way to go, but I can see why people would want to try it.
A bit offtopic, but I sincerely think that "discussion over skype" hardly stand as a relevant argument, but well.

Braver Mag also does not add to your base stats, which is what gear requirements go off, so it has absolutely nothing to do with equipping gear sooner unless you're specifically referring to dex requirement weapons...
...That's what I was saying with my conclusion (as in, compensating for having a lot of dex for high lvl weapon), although with the premise that dex doesn't directly contribute to your dps.

[gigawuts]

I can back him up on that. I don't have the links saved anywhere, but I've seen multiple JP blogs work out that conclusion independently and it's well known that dexterity increases minimum damage of all damage types by roughly the amount atk will increase maximum damage. I did some brief testing of my own, nothing to call scientific or anything, but I did notice a similar pattern. To quote an example I made for someone...

note: these are not perfect numbers, obviously, just a simple demonstration of the how and what - gains may be a bit higher or lower, etc.

I honestly don't know about dex vs. atk on these weapons. Some braver attacks have bonus multipliers from dex (from it, or maybe for it?). Dex is a bonus to your minimum damage range roughly equivalent to the amount that atk increases your maximum range.

So, it's something like this (these are not the actual figures, just an example)
50 atk & 10 dex = 50 max damage, 10 minimum damage, average 30
Spend 20 points on dex:
50 atk & 30 dex = 50 maximum damage, 30 minimum damage, average 40
spend 20 points on atk:
70 atk & 10 dex = 70 maximum damage, 10 minimum damage, average 40

So with atk you get a wilder spread of damage and might hit really low sometimes, but with dex you get a consistent spread of damage and won't hit really low - but you also won't hit really high.

BUT

Dex applies to all damage types. So for a hybrid build?
Spend 20 points on dex:
50 satk & 30 dex = 50 maximum damage, 30 minimum damage, average 40 striking
50 ratk & 30 dex = 50 maximum damage, 30 minimum damage, average 40 ranged
Spend 20 points on satk:
70 satk & 10 dex = 70 maximum damage, 10 minimum damage, average 40 striking
50 ratk & 10 dex = 50 maximum damage, 10 minimum damage, average 30 ranged

You can see the issue. The actual numbers you'll see ingame will be different, but that's the gist of the concept.

edit: To get to my actual point (derp)
Assuming that the dex doesn't reach the cap (your minimum damage is said to be capped at 95% of your maximum damage, and is going to be impacted by the enemy's dex)
A 175 atk mag = 175 dps, high crits, higher maximum range, lower minimum range
A 175 dex mag = 175 dps (bit lower?), not high crits, decent maximum range, higher minimum range
A 175 dex & 87.5 atk mag = 262.5 dps (bit lower?), high-ish crits, high-ish maximum range, higher minimum range
Worth 5 SP? Well, 5 SP for 88 atk isn't bad, but mag stats are typically used for weapon requirements. So I guess it falls on those. That 5 SP may be better spent on a multiplier. The choice is yours.

[Klashikari]

Well, I've seen that formula indicating that dext affects the variance % in the damage calculation, but that's the first time I've seen statements that it contribute exactly as much as an offensive stats.

I guess we really need Agito (and other katana) requirements to judge a proper balance in S Atk and Dex.
Something like 100 S atk - 75 Dext might be practicable, but it is still shooting in the dark.

[gigawuts]

Agreed. We really don't have enough information to call anything definitive yet, so I'm just waiting it out. I'll be keeping 5 SP spare regardless of whatever the rest of my build is just for braver mag, and 300 AC spare to spend on a mag if a pure dex mag winds up being a good investment.

[Pillan]

There isn't really that much of test going on, but what I implied was overal 400 dext, which is arguably achievable without any mag of course.
I'm however interested to see formula/source of that assumption that 1 dex = 1 S-Atk/R-Atk/T-atk, not like I doubt it or anything, but I didn't see people raving about it.


As I posted before, the source is one of the Japanese Wikis (http://pso2wiki.net/%E3%83%80%E3%83%A1%E3%83%BC%E3%82%B8%E8%A8%88%E7%A E%97#.E4.B8.8E.E3.83.80.E3.83.A1.E3.83.BC.E3.82.B8 .E3.82.92.E6.A7.8B.E6.88.90.E3.81.99.E3.82.8B.E8.A 6.81.E7.B4.A0). It includes all the test data and the general equation they received as a result. And if you do a bit of math on that data, you will find that 5 dex = +2 to min damage = +1 to average damage. However, this still caps at 90% of weapon damage.

Assuming the character's dex is roughly equal to enemy dex, that means the Mag's dex should not exceed 20% of the weapon's primary attack stat. However, given the braver mag ability, you can cap the Mag's dex at 30% of the weapon's primary attack stat without taking a real penalty. Apparently certain rares can cut that estimate in half.

[Alisha]

Well, I've seen that formula indicating that dext affects the variance % in the damage calculation, but that's the first time I've seen statements that it contribute exactly as much as an offensive stats.

I guess we really need Agito (and other katana) requirements to judge a proper balance in S Atk and Dex.
Something like 100 S atk - 75 Dext might be practicable, but it is still shooting in the dark.

the 10 star braver weapons have requirements that are a joke. i'm rocking this at lvl 30 with like 5 dex on my mag

http://i.minus.com/ibq1WqxiL3GyWh.png

i've seen agito in a player shop and it requires 300 dex.

[Melodys]

I have another question for anyone being a bow braver. What does Rapid Shooting affect besides normal attacks and increasing the PAs' power?

[Alisha]

I have another question for anyone being a bow braver. What does Rapid Shooting affect besides normal attacks and increasing the PAs' power?
if you mean the skill itself attack speed.

[gigawuts]

Rapid shooting fires off 3 arrows instead of 1, at reduced damage, with the goal of increasing PP you recover. More arrows rapid fired means less chances you'll miss completely, and if you land every arrow it means 3x the PP recovered.

It's very good against large bosses and any situation where you'll want to pop off lots of PA's at once, like using the gravity arrow repeatedly against crowds and such.

[Alisha]

dont forget you can charge normal attacks with bows.

[Zenobia]

the 10 star braver weapons have requirements that are a joke. i'm rocking this at lvl 30 with like 5 dex on my mag

http://i.minus.com/ibq1WqxiL3GyWh.png

i've seen agito in a player shop and it requires 300 dex.

Pretty sure sega nerfed the stats on it just like the units for Duman so this is expected. I still lol at all those FO/FI's or FO/TE's who wanted to be unique and wear King Vardha units~!

[gigawuts]

Yep, and I'm pretty sure a charged normal recovers more PP than an uncharged normal. Which it should do, of course, but in case anyone hasn't noticed the same I'm pointing it out.

[Gardios]

Mh, this is what I've been thinking about using on my BR/HU / FI/HUdewearl.

http://ryuhiroshi.funpic.de/pso2/skillcalc.php?05eOb3Ikb3Ikb3Ikb3Ikb3Ikb3Ikb3Ik0lbI nqnGKsN6JiGA000006ebHoGBboGKIb2Nin0000ib000009b000 00ib000000lb000000jebdB4SdncKsNIbfxk0006

Average over Weak because I'm kinda lazy and because I want to use both katana and bullet bow, the latter doesn't seem as bad as I initially thought if you just charge your normal attacks. I was thinking about dropping points from Rapid Shoot Mastery for Average S Charge, but I don't really want to waste SP for the Critical skill... :/

[GrimWolf]

How bad of a hit would it be to my ability to solo and party if I didn't take Weak Stance?

I'm really liking the bow. A lot more than I thought, I use a gamepad for Braver so I don't really use TPS mode so Weak Stance seems less useful than if I switched to M+KB. One of the previous posters though talked about bosses where their weak points are open almost the entire fight which would make a huge difference.

Is there a minimum in Bows that are needed to use it and not completely waste your time, without hugely impacting your ability to use the Katana?

[Bellion]

http://ryuhiroshi.funpic.de/pso2/skillcalc.php?05bAb3Ikb3Ikb3Ikb3Ikb3Ikb3Ikb3Ik0lbI n0000000lb000009b000009b00000ib000000lb000000jebdB 4NdnmxsXI2f4Q0006

Let's say you went with a skill tree like this. At most, you'd lose out on 32% Bow damage(Assuming you mained bow instead). In most situations, that would turn out to be 20% instead since you won't always have Rapid Shoot and Mastery on.

It would be still worth using bows with a 130% damage multiplier anyway. And you'd also have Katana to use at its best. So, you really don't need to go into Weak Stance if you're going to main the Katana and use Bows on the side.

[GrimWolf]

http://ryuhiroshi.funpic.de/pso2/skillcalc.php?05bAb3Ikb3Ikb3Ikb3Ikb3Ikb3Ikb3Ik0lbI n0000000lb000009b000009b00000ib000000lb000000jebdB 4NdnmxsXI2f4Q0006

Let's say you went with a skill tree like this. At most, you'd lose out on 32% Bow damage(Assuming you mained bow instead). In most situations, that would turn out to be 20% instead since you won't always have Rapid Shoot and Mastery on.

It would be still worth using bows with a 130% damage multiplier anyway. And you'd also have Katana to use at its best. So, you really don't need to go into Weak Stance if you're going to main the Katana and use Bows on the side.

If you wanted Braver Mag, where would you get the points for it and would the 85 S/R-Atk make up for the loss in say Average Charge(since it only works for bows and not Katanas)

[Bellion]

http://ryuhiroshi.funpic.de/pso2/skillcalc.php?05bAb3Ikb3Ikb3Ikb3Ikb3Ikb3Ikb3Ik0lbI n0000000lb000009b000009b00000ib000000lb000000jebdB 4SdnmxsXI2ib0006

This would work better then. You'd lose out only on 3% Bow damage when using Rapid Shoot and you'll shoot slightly slower with normal attacks with Rapid Shoot, but the Braver Mag will make up for it.

Better than losing out on constant +5% charged damage if points were taken out from Average Charge.

[Xaeris]

You need to find a new practice dummy, Bellion. I'm calling an animal shelter for those poor kitties.

[Bellion]

But they are the easiest bosses to manipulate(in my opinion). :[

[Zipzo]

There isn't really that much of test going on, but what I implied was overal 400 dext, which is arguably achievable without any mag of course.
I'm however interested to see formula/source of that assumption that 1 dex = 1 S-Atk/R-Atk/T-atk, not like I doubt it or anything, but I didn't see people raving about it.
I don't believe maxing KC is the absolute best way to go, but I can see why people would want to try it.
A bit offtopic, but I sincerely think that "discussion over skype" hardly stand as a relevant argument, but well.

...That's what I was saying with my conclusion (as in, compensating for having a lot of dex for high lvl weapon), although with the premise that dex doesn't directly contribute to your dps.

When I mentioned the skype discussion it was more an excuse to not have to delve too deeply in my post because I was exhausted of the conversation. I'll go ahead and try it now.

With 3 points in KC the cool down is essentially 160 seconds (2:40). At 10 points the cool down is 90 seconds (1:30). This means that the latter player can use KC up to a 1 minute and 10 seconds earlier provided they both use it at the same time.

This means that in order for a player who maxed it out to actually see an actual present benefit of those points spent, the encounter itself needs to last one minute and 30 seconds from the point the ability is used. Remember, it only lasts 20 seconds, and this duration is not increased whether you spend 3 points or 10, and most Bravers are saving its use for that key moment, that special weak bullet so they can hit for 150k (did that the other day on a WB).

Both players will use their KC and the fight will end, and the player who spent 10 points in KC will not have seen any benefit from those points. There is no boss in the entire game that lasts long enough for that second usage to come in to play. If the skill lowered the cooldown to like 30 seconds to a minute, it'd be a much different story...or again if it increased the duration since that would be similar.

Situations where a shorter CD on KC actually is noticeable...

- A looooong duration of combat. Remember, it has to be more than 1:30 for that second usage to happen from the point it is used. Bravers aren't flippantly using it right off the cool down so you can't measure it in exact times. Every 10 seconds they don't use it the moment it is available, that's wasted SP.

This point is the most valid but also the most arguable because what I'm saying from the get go is that the constant boost in stats is a more valid DPS increase than an occasional temporary buff that will only occasionally see it's use more than once in any given fight, hence, will only occasionally actually be taking advantage of that extra 7 points spent. I think it's even reasonable to argue that you actually gain more mileage, or damage overall, from those increased stats, than you do with the decreased stats and a possible extra KC in a long duration encounter.

- You can find windows in TA to time it so it's up at certain points that make your run go faster.

I honestly can't think of any other situation where gimping your stats to have a shorter CD on KC is really that valid. Why would you spend points that may only see usage or even be effective in such a limited scope of the game compared to plain extra stats?

Anyways...that's how I reason it. It's not that I can't understand why someone would want KC maxed. For farming in multiparties you simply get to use it sooner from the moment you used it. It's that simple really, but I don't really theory or gauge my builds to kill mobs that die in one hit no matter what your build looks like.

[Narrillnezzurh]

The discussion shouldn't be about KC, it should be about Combat JA Bonus and Combat Finish.

[Zipzo]

The discussion shouldn't be about KC, it should be about Combat JA Bonus and Combat Finish.

Max them. Unless you main bow.

Discussion over.

[Narrillnezzurh]

Can you back that up with anything? Hybrids are already extremely tight on SP, and five points for a 15% bonus that's only active one seventh of the time at best isn't very compelling.

[Zipzo]

Can you back that up with anything? Hybrids are already extremely tight on SP, and five points for a 15% bonus that's only active one seventh of the time at best isn't very compelling.

Neither is being a "hybrid" but you're doing that.

[UnLucky]

Better than ten points for a 15% bonus that's only active 40% of the time?

Definitely max Combat Finish, though.

[gigawuts]

I will very, very, very, very rarely agree that there's no room for personal preference in something.

This is one of those times.

Max Combat Finish.

Currently considering this: http://ryuhiroshi.funpic.de/pso2/skillcalc.php?05eRb3Ikb3Ikb3Ikb3Ikb3Ikb3Ikb3Ik0lbk IqBGXcBdqInfcAfGA000007bHnGBboGaIbJjn0000ib000009b 00000f4OI22FI4jcAcAca00009b000000jebqB4NdnfsNJ2fGD 0006

I find that I alternate between katanas and bows frequently, and really like rapid shoot. I also like katanas for their thing. I currently have 5 SP in weak stance and am liking my first impression of using it as something to only turn on when wailing on weak points and keeping it off the rest of the time. Skipping average stance for better bows when I want them seems like a nicer idea now.

edit: And I'm not sure, but I think combat JA bonus applies to combat finish. So that's pretty great, and you deal so much damage during Combat.

[Narrillnezzurh]

Neither is being a "hybrid" but you're doing that.

This is another assertion you're going to have to justify. I see no reason not to hybridize a class that lends itself so well to hybridization, and unless you're dead-set on maxing both stances you have to hybridize to some extent; there's simply not enough places to put your points.

Are you a katana main or a bow main?


Better than ten points for a 15% bonus that's only active 40% of the time?

Definitely max Combat Finish, though.

Given that the latter coincides with a period of tripled PP generation, no, I don't think it is. And my concern with Combat Finish isn't with its overall bonus - the bonus is phenomenal - but rather with the fact that a single point gets you the majority of that bonus. I had planned on maxing it anyways, but it's food for thought for future tree additions.


I will very, very, very, very rarely agree that there's no room for personal preference in something.

This is one of those times.

Personal preference isn't the issue, rather it's that we have too many situations to build for and too little information to determine how to build for them.

We could build for arena boss fights, like Zipzo seems to want to do, but should we main bow or Katana? Katana would offer lots of burst through Katana Combat, but bow would offer superior sustained output through easier access to weakpoints, higher uptime, and a longer active. Which should we do? It probably depends which boss you're up against, what your group composition looks like, how skilled the other players in your group are, what equipment's available to you, and how you've built your mag. If you main bow, do you max Rapid Shoot for more burst or Weak S Charge for better sustain? Do we even know at this point that maxing Rapid Shoot provides a significant PP generation increase, or that Weak S Charge even competes with the additional output from maxing Rapid Shoot? Is it better on longer fights to build into both actives and chain them, or to build into sustained output for one weapon?

We could build for world boss fights. Once again, should we main katana or bow? Katana would allow us a burst for every single encounter, but bow would, again, allow us better uptime. We could opt to flip a coin for the weapon and build into both stances, but does the versatility and increased uptime justify the loss of 20 SP that could have been put into strengthening our actives? Depends what we're up against. If we're in an MPA we probably can't guarantee there'll be a WB when and where we need it, so it might be beneficial to build into Average stance instead of Weak stance. It might also be beneficial to specialize in bow so that we can sub Ranger instead of Hunter for another WB. Should we? It depends.

We could build for mobbing. This probably means maxing Average stance and Katana Combat and putting at least one point into Rapid Shoot, but where do we go next? At least one point in Combat finish wouldn't hurt, but it'll probably OHKO most mobs anyways. For similar reasons, we probably don't need the extra damage from Rapid Shoot Mastery, but maxing Rapid Shoot would allow us more PP, resulting more frequent AoE. And if we did need more damage, would we get it from Rapid Shoot Mastery or from Average S Charge? Ten points for 15% at 40% uptime or thirteen points for 10% at 100% uptime?

All three of these building strategies would find some use in almost everything PSO2 offers, but they would also be a burden in almost everything as well, it all depends on the situation at hand.

[UnLucky]

Assuming the character's dex is roughly equal to enemy dex, that means the Mag's dex should not exceed 20% of the weapon's primary attack stat. However, given the braver mag ability, you can cap the Mag's dex at 30% of the weapon's primary attack stat without taking a real penalty. Apparently certain rares can cut that estimate in half.
I went over your earlier thread and that wiki recently and it's helped me understand Dex a bit.

But is there anything that suggests mob Dex is roughly equivalent to players'? Most other stats seem to be wildly skewed in favor of our characters, so this might not even be an issue.

Though with the assumption that our base Dex cancels out, if your weapon is ~800 Atk, you are safe to stack up to 240 extra Dex. Far and away enough room for Braver Mag and Rare Mastery.

However factoring in the 25% (can't find much info on this figure) that rare weapons provide, that reduces your Dex window to 40 (or 50 with a 1000 Atk weapon)

So Braver Mag would essentially give you 87+40=127 Atk, and any further Dex would be completely worthless.

But I don't even know where you get the 20% figure from, and that would mean everybody would hit that by default as long as they equip a rare weapon.

[GrimWolf]

How do you guys build your BR/HU subclass? Full offense or automate halfline? Do you take the weapon gears or spend those points on increasing DPS?

[The Walrus]

http://ryuhiroshi.funpic.de/pso2/skillcalc.php?05fb3Ikb3Ikb3Ikb3Ikb3Ikb3Ikb3Ik0lBIn qnGasN6JiGA000007b000009b000009b00000ib000000lb000 000lb00000f

What I'm doing.

[SakoHaruo]

How do you guys build your BR/HU subclass? Full offense or automate halfline? Do you take the weapon gears or spend those points on increasing DPS?

I have Assault Buster and Additional Bullet 12 & 15 sitting in storage until I reach the required stats so I plan to Partizan/Gunslash my Hunter to 60. I was lucky enough to get them the day before Braver. before that, my plan was to remove 5 points from FSU2 to get sword gear, making it easier to level Hunter since I already have most of the 10* Swords. then I was gonna use a skill tree reset pass when I reach level 60 and put the points back into FSU2. However, if I had Dasy Chain I would leave the tree as is, but let's be real.. I'll never see that Sword.

There's no reason for me to keep sword gear when I already have a 60/60 Hu/Fi on the same account and the only sword we can use is the Lambda. Also, Katana PAs do more than just attack stuff. some of them can actually be used as support tools for teammates in AQs where the enemies are much stronger. I will play Braver with Braver weapons and try not use any of the All classes.... unless I get Dasy Chain.

now to the question you ask I'm going to use the all Fury build

edit: LD's tree is pretty much what I'm going for Hunter

[Narrillnezzurh]

Braver Mag also does not add to your base stats, which is what gear requirements go off, so it has absolutely nothing to do with equipping gear sooner unless you're specifically referring to dex requirement weapons...

This went unnoticed, so I want to clarify for those who don't already know - Braver Mag does contribute to gear requirements. I was wearing an S-atk/DEX mag with one point in Braver Mag, and my base R-atk went down upon unequipping it.

[Zipzo]

This went unnoticed, so I want to clarify for those who don't already know - Braver Mag does contribute to gear requirements. I was wearing an S-atk/DEX mag with one point in Braver Mag, and my base R-atk went down upon unequipping it.

Numbers and pictures would be helpful.

[Narrillnezzurh]

The mag:
[SPOILER-BOX]http://i.imgur.com/Rr1F5hS.jpg[/SPOILER-BOX]
As you can see, 70 DEX and no R-atk.


With the mag:
[SPOILER-BOX]http://i.imgur.com/xHnCVey.jpg[/SPOILER-BOX]

Without the mag:
[SPOILER-BOX]http://i.imgur.com/QvdwPKK.jpg[/SPOILER-BOX]

A difference of 21 R-atk, which is exactly 30% of 70. I have one point in Braver Mag.

[Zipzo]

This is another assertion you're going to have to justify. I see no reason not to hybridize a class that lends itself so well to hybridization, and unless you're dead-set on maxing both stances you have to hybridize to some extent; there's simply not enough places to put your points.

Are you a katana main or a bow main?

And justify it I shall. We're going to have to outright disagree with one another on the idea that the tree lends itself gratifyingly to hybrid builds. If anything I think the tree is pretty clear, cut & dry that you absolutely can't have everything. Hybrid builds in and of themselves are rarely (if ever?) suited towards optimization in any category anyway. You call that the "hybrid tax". You give up your maximum potential in order to have average potential all-around. I'm not saying it's an invalid play style, but that's what you're doing.

Heck, I play HU/TE all the time. I love doing it, but I will not begin to assert that I'm anywhere near close as strong as a HU/FI. I get my willies off doing what I do while playing as that build but I'm not about to believe it's breaking any barriers in terms of efficiency or performance. The point I'm trying to make here is that it's not bad if you want to pick this or that skill, or be a "hybrid", but you can't keep acting like I don't know what it's like to play one. I play one as a main.

I actually have 2 Braver trees for both specializations, bow and katana. What purpose is there to having a partial stance? You might as well just call yourself a sub-par hunter or fighter that uses katanas, or a less powerful ranger using bows. Comparing the bonuses from your competitive trees you simply leave yourself trailing behind if you do not max your stance of choice. If you go down both weapon trees, you can't max one of the stances which significantly gimps your damage in the situation where that stance would be helpful in either case whether there's a weakspot open or you're just MPA farming with A.stance, and as long as you are not using the other weapon, your points are wasted. I don't think you randomly swap between the two every X amount of seconds, so I'm inclined to doubt you don't have a personal favorite, and that's the weapon you should specialize in. Nobody is stopping you from pulling out the other situationally where it's helpful, not having points in its tree specialization is not going to hurt that much because the trees themselves are based on CDs and benefits you get during their duration. Are you using Katana, and then while your KC is on cooldown, you swap to bow and use Rapid shot?

EDIT : Good call on the braver mag thing though. I was only going off of hearsay so, good correction.

[GrimWolf]

Snatch Step vs Rapid Shoot 1 vs Rare Mastery Braver 1?

If I go with Snatch Step or RMB I'm planning on taking it from Rapid SHoot

Current Build:
http://ryuhiroshi.funpic.de/pso2/skillcalc.php?05eNb3Ikb3Ikb3Ikb3Ikb3Ikb3Ikb3Ik0lBI nqnGasN6JiGA000007b000009b000009b00000ib000000lb00 0000lOdB4SdocKrIJ2ib0006

[Narrillnezzurh]

You call that the "hybrid tax".

I take issue with the fact that you view specialization as "maximum potential." Specialization is maximum potential only in the field you're specializing in, and I don't think you realize that when you "specialize" in either katana or bow you aren't specializing in the damage they deal, you're specializing in the characteristics of mob groups and bosses that the weapon and its actives excel in. It's not as if you'll consistently do more damage on all targets if you specialize and consistently do less damage on all targets if you hybridize, it's that specialization allows you to consistently do more damage on a group of mobs or boss that moves in a particular way while doing less on it when it stops moving in that particular way, and hybridization allows you to consistently do somewhere in the middle of those highs and lows in all situations. That's the hybrid tax in effect in this particular situation.

I'm not familiar enough to comment on Te/Hu, but I will say that I think it's a bit of a different animal than what we're talking about.


I actually have 2 Braver trees for both specializations, bow and katana. What purpose is there to having a partial stance? You might as well just call yourself a sub-par hunter or fighter that uses katanas, or a less powerful ranger using bows.

I have to ask, in what situation would you choose your katana tree over your bow tree?

I never said anything about not maxing stances. Quite the contrary, I specifically mentioned maxing both stances as being the only way for a katana main to truly avoid hybridization. Which brings me to...


If you go down both weapon trees, you can't max one of the stances

You really have to specify what you mean by "go down both weapon trees." If you mean maxing everything without question, then you can absolutely max the stat gains from one of the stances, though you'll lose out on the charge bonus. However, if you mean putting in only the points you need to, then you can absolutely max one of the stances. Here's a spec to prove it:

http://ryuhiroshi.funpic.de/pso2/skillcalc.php?05fb3Ikb3Ikb3Ikb3Ikb3Ikb3Ikb3Ik0lbIn 0000000lb000009b000009b00000ib000000lb000000lOIo4N dnfrIJ2HnAh0006

I don't think you'll argue with only 3 points in KC, and I don't think you'll argue with no points in RSU. You might argue call me on the points missing from RS and RSM, and you'll probably be mad when I tell you those points are only missing because I thought getting rid of Combat JA Bonus would've looked worse - in my own build I do drop Combat JA Bonus. The Weak Stance is maxed.


Are you using Katana, and then while your KC is on cooldown, you swap to bow and use Rapid shot?

EDIT : Good call on the braver mag thing though. I was only going off of hearsay so, good correction.

For bosses without a lengthy weak point phase I start with KC then use them both on cooldown until the boss is dead. For bosses with a lengthy weak point phase I'll use RS on cooldown and save KC for the weak point. While both are on cooldown I'll use which ever weapon is appropriate for the situation. Rockbears, Persona, Chrome, Quartz, and De Malmoth generally get the bow, Tranmizers, Caterdra'n, and Banthers generally get the katana, Gwan gets the bow until his tentacles come out, at which point I switch to katana to AoE them, Falz's hands get the katana if I'm near them, bow if I'm not near them or am breaking the nails, Falz himself gets the katana when his wrists are exposed and the bow in between attacks when I can't reach his hands, Wolgahda get the katana when I'm close and the bow when they dive, Zeshrayda gets the katana for his legs and the bow for everything else, etc. For intense MPA'ing (and likely AQs when I get to them) I'll generally use RS on cooldown and save KC for PSE bursts.

And I honestly wouldn't have questioned you on the mag thing if I hadn't happened across the skill on the jp wiki. It clearly stated that the bonuses contribute to requirements, so I had to test it.

[Luvsic]

So what would be a good ranger sub build for bow? Should I just put points into Weak Hit, WB, and R-ATK? Any info would be helpful.

[Zipzo]

I have to ask, in what situation would you choose your katana tree over your bow tree?

I would choose whichever I felt like playing. That's where the freedom of play style comes in, because either or is quite effective in its own right, but only if you build the skill tree properly.


I never said anything about not maxing stances. Quite the contrary, I specifically mentioned maxing both stances as being the only way for a katana main to truly avoid hybridization. Which brings me to...

You really have to specify what you mean by "go down both weapon trees." If you mean maxing everything without question, then you can absolutely max the stat gains from one of the stances, though you'll lose out on the charge bonus. However, if you mean putting in only the points you need to, then you can absolutely max one of the stances. Here's a spec to prove it:

http://ryuhiroshi.funpic.de/pso2/skillcalc.php?05fb3Ikb3Ikb3Ikb3Ikb3Ikb3Ikb3Ik0lbIn 0000000lb000009b000009b00000ib000000lb000000lOIo4N dnfrIJ2HnAh0006

I don't think you'll argue with only 3 points in KC, and I don't think you'll argue with no points in RSU. You might argue call me on the points missing from RS and RSM, and you'll probably be mad when I tell you those points are only missing because I thought getting rid of Combat JA Bonus would've looked worse - in my own build I do drop Combat JA Bonus. The Weak Stance is maxed.

There are a couple underlying issues with your build focus.

A. What exactly is your affix plan?
B. I believe in 3 points being the way to go for KC, but to slap them in RS is sort of having the point woosh. If I had a choice between the two I'd easily pick KC because you have access to the finisher more often which does shit loads of damage, compared to the mediocre damage buff you get from RS when the tree isn't maxed out.

A katana build can healthily max both stances, but as a bow user your extra-curricular point expenditure is higher because of benefiting from the charge skills, so you go with the obvious given you're using an ranged weapon.

I'd say every time you swap to Katana you're losing out on better damage you could be doing by keeping the bow out (given you stuck to the bow side of the tree). The bow has a variety of PAs for most any situation, and it's quite strong at that too. I understand though that you're simply trying to have the best of both worlds with (maybe) a lack of a means to have multiple skill trees. I can't fault you for that.


So what would be a good ranger sub build for bow? Should I just put points into Weak Hit, WB, and R-ATK? Any info would be helpful.

It would simply be the cookie cutter ranger tree that even main rangers use.

[UnLucky]

So what would be a good ranger sub build for bow? Should I just put points into Weak Hit, WB, and R-ATK? Any info would be helpful.
The same thing any respectable Ranger builds: full left side of the tree. WB 10, WHA1&2 10, SS1&2 10, KB 10 (or 9 and 1 in Rare Mastery).


You really have to specify what you mean by "go down both weapon trees." If you mean maxing everything without question, then you can absolutely max the stat gains from one of the stances, though you'll lose out on the charge bonus. However, if you mean putting in only the points you need to, then you can absolutely max one of the stances. Here's a spec to prove it:

http://ryuhiroshi.funpic.de/pso2/skillcalc.php?05fb3Ikb3Ikb3Ikb3Ikb3Ikb3Ikb3Ik0lbIn 0000000lb000009b000009b00000ib000000lb000000lOIo4N dnfrIJ2HnAh0006
What are you trying to get from this tree? It feels like you'd only take out your katana when a large boss's weak point is exposed, and the rest of the time you would use your bow to attack... weak points. You can't break parts very well, you can't use your katana most of the time, and splitting your stats halfway without getting Braver Mag really hurts your damage in both areas.

It's very bow-heavy.

[Alisha]

im not sure bow bravers will be expected to wb. unlike gu you are stuck with all class rifles only. wich for a large portion of your leveling is bouquets only...i think i can equip lambda schawn at 45.i wouldnt mind wb'ing but i wouldnt put 10 points in it unless i only had 1 ra tree.

[Zipzo]

im not sure bow bravers will be expected to wb. unlike gu you are stuck with all class rifles only. wich for a large portion of your leveling is bouquets only...i think i can equip lambda schawn at 45.i wouldnt mind wb'ing but i wouldnt put 10 points in it unless i only had 1 ra tree.

If you are a BR/RA in a full MP of people who do not have WB and you neglect to use it pretty much in the same way a Ranger would, you are lowing the entire groups damage potential by copious amounts.

[UnLucky]

If you don't get WB as Br/Ra... why are you playing as a Br/Ra? Br/Hu would be similar damage, even while exclusively using the bow, but with less constraints (ok, JA's are more significant now).

You really want that Killing Bonus, perhaps?

[Alisha]

If you are a BR/RA in a full MP of people who do not have WB and you neglect to use it pretty much in the same way a Ranger would, you are lowing the entire groups damage potential by copious amounts.

i get that. it's like how on techer i don't normally shock but will step in and do it if no one else is.

unlucky its simple my hu sub is lower . i switched to ra sub at 30 to equip a 10 star bow at some point i will level hu i've just been on a leveling binge.

[Narrillnezzurh]

I would choose whichever I felt like playing. That's where the freedom of play style comes in, because either or is quite effective in its own right, but only if you build the skill tree properly.

That's an illusion of choice.


There are a couple underlying issues with your build focus.

A. What exactly is your affix plan?
B. I believe in 3 points being the way to go for KC, but to slap them in RS is sort of having the point woosh. If I had a choice between the two I'd easily pick KC because you have access to the finisher more often which does shit loads of damage, compared to the mediocre damage buff you get from RS when the tree isn't maxed out.

A. Not sure why it's relevant.
B. I'd wager the KC finish does, at most, about as much damage on a given target as you've done during the entire KC, based on Giga's finish numbers and my PA damage numbers. Since you might do 20% more damage during KC than you would outside KC, that means KC does a little more than double your damage over its duration if you include the finish. RS, by comparison, more than triples your PP generation (RS itself speeds up the normal attack animation, mind you, though we don't know by how much yet), and gives a conservative 10% damage bonus (would be 15%, but I didn't max it in my example). This is napkin math to the extreme, but even with the odds in your favor I think RS beats KC in terms of bonus damage per second over its duration, and even with KC maxed it'll never match RS's 40% uptime.


A katana build can healthily max both stances, but as a bow user your extra-curricular point expenditure is higher because of benefiting from the charge skills, so you go with the obvious given you're using an ranged weapon.

And this is why it's only an illusion of choice. Apart from the few mobs with weak points only ranged weapons can hit, weak stance's only bow-exclusive benefit is that the bow has a slightly easier time hitting weak points, and on some bosses (Tranmizer and Caterdra'n come to mind) it might actually be harder for bow users to hit weak points unless they're in melee range. Yes, a bow main would want a charge skill, but for the most part you're not choosing a weapon, you're choosing an active. It might be better on some bosses to use weak stance with a bow (Wolgahdas and Zeshraydas if you aren't breaking anything), but on most it simply won't matter because the katana main next to you is gonna be hitting all the same weak points you are.

Though I'll mention since two people have brought it up: that build was a proof of concept, not something I'd actually use. I run with Average stance :P


I understand though that you're simply trying to have the best of both worlds with (maybe) a lack of a means to have multiple skill trees. I can't fault you for that.

I'm not opposed to buying a second skill tree, I just don't want to split the two weapons yet. I want to see how things play out first.


splitting your stats halfway without getting Braver Mag really hurts your damage in both areas.

EDIT: The stipulation for the paragraph below is that it's still uncertain exactly where the ability cap is and whether or not the DEX provided by BM pushes us over the cap, because I've never seen anyone on this forum give any specifics about it. If that stipulation doesn't hold then I'm wrong.

This isn't true. I'd never manage to get more than 87/88 points in both stats on my mag regardless of whether I had Braver Mag or not; not taking Braver Mag simply means every point of DEX I put on the mag is going to cost some of my ATK stats. But since the first point is a 30% conversion into both stats the losses are phenomenally low - a pure DEX mag with a single point in Braver Mag will still net me more than half the maximum combined ATK I would've had with all five points or a split S/R-ATK mag with no DEX. And given that DEX increases average damage to an extent anyways, I might actually see a net gain in damage over a split S/R-ATK mag with no DEX. I'll take that for 1SP any day.

[UnLucky]

Are you seriously suggesting having 87/88 is greater damage (or equivalent) to 87/87/175?

[Narrillnezzurh]

I'm not, and I don't know what part of my post you got that from.

[UnLucky]

Well I meant that splitting your stats in half is weaker than doing the same thing with Braver Mag.

And you said that it was not true.

So that would mean you're saying putting 87/88 on your mag is not weaker than 175 on your Dex which gives you 87/87 as well. I was always thinking of a full Dex mag and maxing the skill, if that wasn't clear.

Otherwise 87 S-Atk is clearly inferior to 175 S-Atk, so splitting your mag stats in half means you're weaker in both areas. Using Braver Mag to split your stats in half isn't the same, since you get more than enough Dex to make it up. If only half of the Dex brings you to cap, you're still on equal ground with both a 175 S-Atk and 175 R-Atk mag (for the 5 SP cost). If all of the Dex is useful, you're clearly superior than both pure Atk mags at the same time.

[SociableTyrannosaur]

I was thinking something along the lines of BM 5 and getting 125/50/100. It's pretty clear that focusing on an even hybrid a pure dex mag is a viable option. If you're not planning on a hybridized braver, a standard Hu or Ra mag would do just fine. I don't see much point in excessive dex in that case even IF bullet bows use dex for their equip stat.

[gigawuts]

Just to pop in to what's by now a bit late of a topic...

I don't find that the tree lends itself to hybrid builds, given that each weapon is rather SP intensive. Instead, I find the weapons lend themselves to hybrid builds. They can dish out very nice damage without much atk, and many PA's have modifiers that use dex for their bonus. While you can probably deal out obscene amounts of damage with one spec or another, you're not overbearingly punished for playing off of your spec like you would be for pre-existing classes. Why? The answer is pretty simple: The bonuses you're missing out on are not that powerful, and the ones you have are designed specifically to still benefit your main weapon spec.

For a pre-existing comparison, speccing in katana and occasionally playing with a bow is like occasionally using techs you don't have two masteries in. Those techs will still be good at what they do, they just won't be dealing +44% damage. Unspecced zonde will still occasionally be best at what it does - hit top-down targets easily for good burst damage. Not only that, but Katana Combat/Rapid Shoot are pretty handy for 1 SP. Just pulling a number out of the air for this comparison, but 1 point in Rapid Shoot would like 5 points in Bolt PP Save in this instance. You get the brunt of the bonus, but not all of it.

Every so often I've posted lists of rules skilltrees should be abiding by based on what I personally find really fun in other games, and I'm really pleased to see Braver's abiding by most of them. Small maximum bonuses so you're not pigeonholed into your spec in all situations (huge bonuses are awesome with infinite free respecs, but we don't have those), extra skills for bonuses you may/may not want to let you customize your abilities, a diverse selection of weapon abilities, and interesting weapon-centric abilities intended on balancing weapons in a class instead of balancing a class's maximum potential with other classes. Bow vs. katana feels right on braver (edit: And it's not even bow vs. katana, it's bow and katana), whereas on other classes it often felt like it was over end vs. other classes' power PA's instead of over end vs. other cyclone, stuff like that.

And as a side note I'm glad this thread is staying pretty civil knock on wood

Anyway, re: Braver Mag. I can't find the spare SP to justify a piddly 87 ratk when plenty of weapons require dex. Not now, anyway. I'll keep that 300 AC for a new mag and an alltree reset on hand just in case, but until they stop making powerful 10* bows that require dex I'm skipping on ratk & braver mag completely.

[UnLucky]

Well if you consider the 175 Dex on its own as a worthwhile investment compared to a pure Atk mag in only one stat, you should definitely have one point in Braver Mag. That's 52 Atk right there, even better than maxing both R-Atk Up and S-Atk Up for 20 SP.

The full 5 SP for 87 Atk is only 17.4 per point, which isn't as worth it if you're trying to maximize a specific weapon. It'd be better spent on a 1% damage boost per SP.

[Zenobia]

Good thing to I got my full dex mag going I was literally about to ask if maxing Braver Mag was worth it, but I guess 1 point is enough?

The Bow PA's are indeed powerful enough to not even spec in the bow side of the tree unless you really love bows. I would just get another tree and spec in it that way instead of a hybrid dead serious.

[UnLucky]

Well that's the thing, I'm still a bit unsure. If you can get the full effects of 175 Dex, as in, you still don't reach 90% of your max damage or whatever it is, then you don't even need Braver Mag for that to be worth it. In that case it's straight up better than going pure Atk whether you exclusively use katana, only use bow, or switch between both whenever it suits you. As long as you don't crit, of course.

That's a lot of assumptions, though, and pretty much the defining reasons why nobody focused on Dex before.

With a pure Dex mag already, 1 SP in Braver Mag is totally worth it. Maxing it is mostly to persuade people to choose a pure Dex mag over pure Atk since you don't lose "that much" in your preferred stat, and you're getting "extra" in a secondary field to at least break even overall. It's also to cushion against the impending Dex cap, further validating the mag choice in the first place.

[gigawuts]

Katana Combat's and Katana Gear's enormous critrate is worth considering if you're planning on being a hybrid but leaning towards katanas, as dipping mainly into satk will get you better results during combat and when the gear is enabled.

[Selnia]

So I've done some tinkering...

If you would prefer to run a Striking Mag instead of a full ability mag (which rarely anyone has and there's probably only a minority of people who are going to take advantage of the opportunity to raise one)...you can get a tree looking like this.

http://ryuhiroshi.funpic.de/pso2/skillcalc.php?05fb3Ikb3Ikb3Ikb3Ikb3Ikb3Ikb3Ik0lbIn 0000000lb000009b000009b00000ib000000lb000000lOdB4N dncKsNJ20000

This gets you both stances maxed and KC maxed.

This is probably the way to go for anyone who can't afford to start a new pure ability mag, or CBA'd. I think J.recovery is a much better point spent than snatch. It's a good "I fucked up trying to get K-Gear running" cover-up skill.

Barring all of this, I want to strongly recommend against "hybrid" builds...I think your potential can only go down splitting points between all the stances and all the weapon trees. Pick your poison, Katana or Bow. If you want both, get another tree.

This is exactly the same build i made, but i putted one point into Rare Mastery, i don't have a pure DEX mag, and even with 1 point in Braver Mag i just get 23 S/R ATK.
J Step recover/Snatch Step are nice skills too, it's just a matter of preferences, i don't get hit often so i don't use Just Reversal much, but might be a good investment since KC teleports you near the enemy, and Snatch seems too situational to be really useful, it can cut grass thou :-P

As for the build itself, imho both maxed stances are a must for Katana, Charged Stances work only with Bow (confirmed in a japanese discussion on swiki), and making an hybrid build for both weapons might not be a good idea, since KC is a great boost in damage, even if for short and the aoe effect does pretty great numbers on weak posts (i was reading of 250k damage on wb'd falz hands with 6* katana and maxed weak stance), and imho you'll still be able to pull out a bow and do decent damage without investing greatly in rapid shoot and charged stances.

EDIT: i'm still considering max KC cd thou, is a great damage boost skill, and you have to invest at least 13 points into it to get the max damage, but still, you won't use it more than once every 2-3 minutes, unless someone finds a great way to use it in time attacks, or you want to spam it while bursting, probably 3 points are enough if you have a pure dex mag, so you can get 87 S/R ATK with 5 SP, my mag only has 70ish DEX, and i'm planning on making one with even less DEX (150 satk 25 dex or pure 175 satk), but still, there's lots of stuff to test out, BR builds might look a lot different in a couple of weeks.

[gravityvx]

So, per point which is better Rapid up or rapid mastery, thinking of choosing one or both in a hybrid build. 5 point investment seems better but the other is % damage.

[~Aya~]

In time attack you can use KC to gap close and use AOE to finish them off and then move on to the next group where you can use KF if you feel the need to by the endnof the duration. Gilnas cores beware of master shot, too. 8D

[UnLucky]

So, per point which is better Rapid up or rapid mastery, thinking of choosing one or both in a hybrid build. 5 point investment seems better but the other is % damage.
The first point in Rapid Up would be better than any one point in the Mastery, but then Mastery becomes better than the next few points in the Up.

Using my rule of thumb that 20 Atk ≃ 1% damage in current endgame.

[Narrillnezzurh]

And you said that it was not true.

I meant that it isn't true it really hurts my damage. I'm not saying it's false, but it isn't conclusively true until someone posts specifics regarding the ability cap.

[Maninbluejumpsuit]

The first point in Rapid Up would be better than any one point in the Mastery, but then Mastery becomes better than the next few points in the Up.

Using my rule of thumb that 20 Atk ≃ 1% damage in current endgame.

This. I use 1 point into RSU, max RSM.

Also, after the first point, RSU is kinda pointless; each level granting 10 r atk, save the last level granting 20.

[RadiantLegend]

I don't see myself sticking with Br/HU but here is what I'm projecting to do.

http://ryuhiroshi.funpic.de/pso2/skillcalc.php?05eRb3Ikb3Ikb3Ikb3Ikb3Ikb3Ikb3Ikc5ik IulEebkbqoGXcBdqInfcnfGA000007b000009b000009b00000 ib000000lb000000lbf4NdncKsNJ20000

(I miss Fighter and that new knuckle PA isnt helping)

[plasism]

I'm thinking about going BR/RA, but i'm having trouble deciding which skills are good or not. I'm gonna be focusing on using the Bow alone (not good at melee combat). Mind helping me out with my build?

http://ryuhiroshi.funpic.de/pso2/skillcalc.php?055nb3Ikb3Ikb3Ikb3Ikb3Ikb3Ikb3Ik0lbI n0000000lb000009bJdJ29k2N0000ib00000ib000000lb0000 00lOIokbfkKIkJIHnIb0006

[Mrkiko65]

does weak stance and average stance stack? can i activate like fury stance weak stance and average stance together?

[gigawuts]

does weak stance and average stance stack? can i activate like fury stance weak stance and average stance together?

Stances from the same class cannot be activated simultaneously, but stances from different classes can.

So
Weak & Average = no
Weak & Fury = yes

[UnLucky]

You really should not be using Average Stance as a Br/Ra. So much is already in WHA that your damage just tanks on non-weak points.

If you want to be "lazy" or not up the creek if an enemy's weak point is not exposed, go Br/Hu. Even as a bow main, simply toggle off Weak Stance to remove the penalty. Average Stance isn't worth dumping points into when you could stack even more into bows via Rapid Shoot.

Not to mention skipping Average Stance Up to get Average Stance Charge is a bad idea. It's the same damage bonus, but Charge requires wasting SP in Crit and obviously doesn't boost your uncharged damage (and in extension doesn't boost most other weapon PAs).

I would drop AS entirely and max Rapid Shoot Mastery, with at least one point in RSU. From there you could fill up Rapid Shoot itself, JR Cover, or Braver Mag.

You don't need Rare Mastery on your Ranger if you're just using it as a sub, but if you're using the same tree for Ra/Hu or something then nevermind. If you get Just Reversal on Ranger, you can completely ignore Step Attack for bows which can actually be really annoying. You can't get JR Cover, but this frees up a lot of SP to max everything else out.

[gigawuts]

Yeah, even as a mainly katana braver I'm pooling into weak stance. Most things I'd want average stance against will be dying fast enough that 21% damage does not matter. The main issue with weak stance is breaking parts on bosses does become a bit more of a chore in small parties or when solo, unless weak bullet is available in which case your weak stance bonus kicks in.

Can anyone confirm/deny that weak stance works on poisoned parts on quartz dragon and ex dragon? Before and after actually breaking the part. I can't get the jerk to stand still long enough to put out enough hits to get crits.

[Zipzo]

I could be wrong but I've always assumed that if you hear the "kachunklack" sound when connecting with the target you're hitting a weak point, otherwise no.

The funny part is everybody will know what I'm talkin about.

[gigawuts]

Yeah, that sound would normally play on a weak point, but you also hear it when hitting ragne's face mask thing, and the poisoned points are a pretty unique case so they may not have programmed it to apply the bonus in that specific case. It wouldn't be the first time they overlooked something like that.

I'll try to do some crit testing later on or something.

[UnLucky]

I didn't think WB forced WHA and WS to work on originally non-weak points.

[gigawuts]

I'm pretty sure it does, yes.

[Z-0]

It does not force WHA to work on non weak points, it's just a 3x damage modifier (although you do get the different sound effect). actually it might do, I do 10k HEs with WB and 2.xk without. edit: it definitely does

WS, maybe, since that does weird stuff (such as being EWH for techniques).

[UnLucky]

Yeah I just tried it on a body shot. Definitely more than simply 3x with WB, though headshots are exactly triple.

Now that's got me thinking, does WHA and WS work on Micda weak points? Those are supposedly 100% damage (the rest of their body takes less). If not, that means it applies to anything that takes >100%, not specifically weak points.

And hey, what about EWH? Does that take effect on WB even if the target isn't normally weak to that element? Is it confirmed that WS does not boost non-weak elements on weak points, or just that it does boost weakness elements?

[Bellion]

WHA and WS do not work on the Micda/Ol Micda weak points.
Under the same conditions except for wb:
600+ HE to weakpoint
4400+ HE to weakpoint with wb

[UnLucky]

Interesting. So I take it WB can turn even 50% damage locations into weak points that work with WH and WS (I don't think there's anything 40% or under).

Now if only enemies had like ~75% element resistances and Techer had some kind of active skill that increased all elemental damage, which gets EWH if the end result is >100%. I remember mentioning that in passing some time ago.

[Dark Emerald EXE]

Ok I've come with a resolve haha
Since I don't have a solid melee player yet...
My new dewman will focus on BR/HU (FI?)

While Zeru (my main char whose already GU/RA oriented) when the time comes....will do BR/RA

*nod*

haha

However...I'd still like to use both katana and bow...of course from my play with it I'm learning katana is better damage dealer of the two...

[Zipzo]

Ok I've come with a resolve haha
Since I don't have a solid melee player yet...
My new dewman will focus on BR/HU (FI?)

While Zeru (my main char whose already GU/RA oriented) when the time comes....will do BR/RA

*nod*

haha

However...I'd still like to use both katana and bow...of course from my play with it I'm learning katana is better damage dealer of the two...

This isn't true at all but it's understandable you feel that way as Katana is a much more friendly gate way weapon to the Braver class.

[SallySalSal]

What do Rapid Shoot, Rapid Shoot Up, and Rapid Shoot Mastery do exactly and are they worth investing points into?

[Narrillnezzurh]

Rapid Shoot is an activated skill that allows you to fire three normal shots at reduced power instead of one for 60 seconds. The main draw is better PP generation, and each point in the skill both increases the damage of your normal shots as well as makes them faster. Rapid Shoot Up is a static R-atk buff during Rapid Shoot, and Rapid Shoot Mastery is a static percent increase to all damage dealt with bows during Rapid Shoot.

If you're a bow main I would suggest at least three points in Rapid Shoot and ten in Rapid Shoot Mastery. The first point in Rapid Shoot Up is 50 R-atk, which is a non-negligible amount, so I would recommend one point there as well. It's unclear right now whether the gains from the last seven points in Rapid Shoot are worth the SP, but a bow main will likely have enough points to max it anyways if you only max one of the two stances.

For a Katana main or a hybrid it's more complicated, and would depend on what the rest of your build looks like.

[Eternal255]

So i dont have to read through 23 pages, someone mind summing this up for me? ive been mia for a while & still downloading ep2.

Im thinking of doing Fi/Br. What would be a good build for this idea?

here's my idea so far...

http://ryuhiroshi.funpic.de/pso2/skillcalc.php?05xIb3Ikb3Ikb3Ikb3Ikb3Ikb3Ikb3Ik0lbI n0000000lbsNHOcBqscBInfbo0000ib000009b00000ib00000 0lb000000jebqBkI2XcKInlb0006

im not sure where to put hte last 12 for braver

I *might* have to get just reversal on fighter too becuz my hunter doesnt have it

[The Walrus]

ew ew ew ew ew ew ew don't put all those points in stat ups and brave crit...

[Eternal255]

ew ew ew ew ew ew ew don't put all those points in stat ups and brave crit...

Thats my current build actually, & im keepin the stat ups (on fighter at least)

[Z-0]

I er... recommend you take the points out of Adrenaline and put them into Wise Stance Up.

I also recommend maxing the stances themselves but that's up to you.

S-Atk Up is very useful, but if there's something else you can get that's useful, I recommend going for that instead.

For a Fighter tree, what you want to do is max all the stances, get whatever gears you want, get step attack (because Fighter has a lot of free points), and then pool into all S-Atk Up or Chase Advance. The rest of the skills aren't worth your time.

[~Aya~]

I er... recommend you take the points out of Adrenaline and put them into Wise Stance Up.

I also recommend maxing the stances themselves but that's up to you.

S-Atk Up is very useful, but if there's something else you can get that's useful, I recommend going for that instead.

For a Fighter tree, what you want to do is max all the stances, get whatever gears you want, get step attack (because Fighter has a lot of free points), and then pool into all S-Atk Up or Chase Advance. The rest of the skills aren't worth your time.

^this. LOL...

I would ignore dagger gear and get knuckle gear/Double saber gears.

[gigawuts]

Slight change of topic

A ways back I became curious about the damage scaling of higher tier weapons versus lower tier weapons. The results I found were surprisingly similar.

Or rather, they were similar until I checked braver just now, since jooozek mentioned how weak the weapons were and that got me curious.
Using unground 1* starter equips as a base, and then using weapon series found in every weapon class (basic, alva, vita, red, 458, and 578 series) each class's weapons are pretty similar in their growth...except braver.

+10'd 6*'s are generally ~523% stronger than +0 1* starter equips. A couple are higher or lower, wired lances are the most noteworthy of the older weapons at 589%. Katana and bow? 599%. So that's cool.

What's not cool is the 458 and 578 atk series. The Lambda Sarizania and Lambda Tigrebow (578 atk katana & bow) are 677% stronger than a basic 1* equip while every single other weapon series variant is 800-900% stronger.

Amusingly, pretty much every best pyrox 10* is just over 1000% stronger. The agito is 861% stronger, and the DiesRyou or whatever the other katana is called is 887%. The interesting part here is the Konubadari is in line with the best 10* pyrox weapons on other classes, and the current best bow you can get is 1200% stronger.

Now, take these values with a grain of salt. Their implications will vary between each weapon class, and it appears they even used new weapons as a way to readjust weak weapons as time went on (see: wired lances, or the first WL was abnormally weak - possibly because of its supreme strength and usefulness with flinch and grabs at low levels).

The major takeaway though is that, yes, katanas are weaker than they should be relative to other classes. Yes, they were much better in normal and hard than other weapons due to the stat growth. Yes, bows are much stronger at their role than katanas are at theirs right now. Until we get a katana with 813+ atk we won't be looking at what the weapon as it exists right now is actually capable of or if moves need tweaks.

[Selnia]

So i dont have to read through 23 pages, someone mind summing this up for me? ive been mia for a while & still downloading ep2.

Im thinking of doing Fi/Br. What would be a good build for this idea?

i try'd FI/BR during falz arms and damage is terrible (maxed weak stance/weak stance up), seriously sub HU and forget BR as a viable sub class for anything other than FO or RA, unless you make a tree with maxed weak stance charge and learn to hit every enemy weak spot, but FI/HU will still outdamage a FI/BR in pretty much anything else.

[Narrillnezzurh]

The major takeaway though is that, yes, katanas are weaker than they should be relative to other classes. Yes, they were much better in normal and hard than other weapons due to the stat growth. Yes, bows are much stronger at their role than katanas are at theirs right now. Until we get a katana with 813+ atk we won't be looking at what the weapon as it exists right now is actually capable of or if moves need tweaks.

I don't think passing off the Katana's weakness as bad weapon scaling is something we should be doing. The weapons are what the weapons are, and if Katanas are intended to scale worse than the other weapons than they are simply weaker than those weapons. It doesn't matter what Katanas can do with better weapons if the other classes always have even better weapons.

As far as I'm concerned, comparing Katanas and other class's weapons of similar star rating and equip requirements is the way to go right now.

[Eternal255]

^this. LOL...

I would ignore dagger gear and get knuckle gear/Double saber gears.

my main weapon is dagger. im pretty content with my fighters build. i appreciate the input however.

im mostly looking at the braver build since i dont know much of them. is there anything thats absolutely necessary on braver to get? etc

my current build is FI/Hu, and yeah, i hit for retarded amounts of damage. im just looking for a bit of change of play. got bored after a while.

[gigawuts]

I'm not "passing off" anything as anything. People want facts? There are facts. You don't need to like them, they're facts. Katanas scale more powerfully in the 6* range, but much more weakly in the 9*+ range. Is it the only factor? No. Is it one of several factors? Without any doubts.

Jesus, you can't even post cold hard fucking numbers without someone whinging like a creaky door.

[Narrillnezzurh]

Calm down, man. All I'm saying is that we can absolutely work without 10* weapons right now to gauge the power of the katana against other weapons, and that the "katana with 813+ s-atk" might end up being part of a tier in which it's still outclassed by raw atk of the other weapons. I mean, you're literally saying that katanas don't scale well and immediately following that with "we need to wait until we have better katanas to really see what they're capable of." I agree with you, but you sound like you're trying to say they're only weak right now because they don't scale well with other weapons, and that will be fixed when we get better katanas. I'm just pointing out that that might not be the case.

[jooozek]

Calm down, man. All I'm saying is that we can absolutely work without 10* weapons right now to gauge the power of the katana against other weapons, and that the "katana with 813+ s-atk" might end up being part of a tier in which it's still outclassed by raw atk of the other weapons. I mean, you're literally saying that katanas don't scale well and immediately following that with "we need to wait until we have better katanas to really see what they're capable of." I agree with you, but you sound like you're trying to say they're only weak right now because they don't scale well with other weapons, and that will be fixed when we get better katanas. I'm just pointing out that that might not be the case.

on the "without 10*" part, we actually can't when you compare lambda series to worst 10* weapons

anyone notice how shitty the lambda katana and bow attack power are comparing to other (vh) lambda "tigredor" stuff and 10* items?
like lets say, tigredor and ridultiv go from base 274/301 to 403/441 respectively for the lambda version while katana and bows go from the base version attack 262 to 306 on lambda versions
for comparison with 10* items, worst 10* rifle (excluding falz stones) has 363 base, worst launcher has 410 and worst katana has 358 base and worst bow has 429 base
what is going on here? and we all know that the currently worst katana/bow are entry vh items just by going by the amount of dex required (worst 10* gunslash requires 300 dex)

[Alisha]

maybe its just me but maxing a stance i rarely turn on just kills me. wich is the case with wise. when brave up 2 comes wise is the first place i will look to subtract points.

[Narrillnezzurh]

on the "without 10*" part, we actually can't when you compare lambda series to worst 10* weapons

All you're telling me is that Katanas don't scale very well, and that doesn't mean anything. Either pick weapons that are intended to be in the same tier or pick weapons with similar s-atk, and test them. I don't know what you guys are trying to prove by bringing up bad scaling, it is what it is.

[gigawuts]

Calm down, man. All I'm saying is that we can absolutely work without 10* weapons right now to gauge the power of the katana against other weapons, and that the "katana with 813+ s-atk" might end up being part of a tier in which it's still outclassed by raw atk of the other weapons. I mean, you're literally saying that katanas don't scale well and immediately following that with "we need to wait until we have better katanas to really see what they're capable of." I agree with you, but you sound like you're trying to say they're only weak right now because they don't scale well with other weapons, and that will be fixed when we get better katanas. I'm just pointing out that that might not be the case.

I also went out of my way to state that 813 satk+ katanas may work in a more balanced way for katanas as they presently exist, and after reaching that general area of damage moves would see their "true" strengths/weaknesses. I mean, cripes, I even put in italics to emphasize that part. I already nearly one-shot many light enemies with kanran. Two puts down most light mobs for me. Give me another 400 atk and a hidden dex bonus and things will be more interesting.

As the game exists, enemies have defense in addition to resistance. That extra atk will be more beneficial than its face value suggests.

All you're telling me is that Katanas don't scale very well, and that doesn't mean anything. Either pick weapons that are intended to be in the same tier or pick weapons with similar s-atk, and test them. I don't know what you guys are trying to prove by bringing up bad scaling, it is what it is.

What I'm demonstrating is that the initial use of these weapons and their great reception was not a placebo effect. These weapons were stronger at lower levels - even on brand new characters with no mags or gear to equip as they leveled.

[jooozek]

All you're telling me is that Katanas don't scale very well, and that doesn't mean anything. Either pick weapons that are intended to be in the same tier or pick weapons with similar s-atk, and test them. I don't know what you guys are trying to prove by bringing up bad scaling, it is what it is.
power hidden by abyssmal drop rates or premium, whichever you pick, that's all i'm trying to say
and as we all know, higher base attack of weapon means more power from element resulting in even more power
AQs with 9* katanas? no go
AQs with 8* partisan? go for it
this problem surfacing out so soon gives me a little bit of worry considering just how relatively goddamn good are the 10* items of those weaposn

[Zyrusticae]

As the game exists, enemies have defense in addition to resistance. That extra atk will be more beneficial than its face value suggests.
This really can't be overstated.

A 300 S-Atk difference, for example, can be the difference between doing 5k in a single blow and 8k in a single blow (as your attack is subtracted before PA and skill multipliers are added up). I can test this very easily simply by downgrading from my Brionac to my Gungnata.

Also of note, as mentioned in the other thread, the katana is down 3 PAs relative to Hunter and Fighter weapons, so it's still got a ways to go yet.

[Narrillnezzurh]

What I'm demonstrating is that the initial use of these weapons and their great reception was not a placebo effect. These weapons were stronger at lower levels - even on brand new characters with no mags or gear to equip as they leveled.

I apologize if I misinterpreted you. Your first post on the matter made it seem like you were trying to say that katanas only appear weak at high levels because they have bad scaling, and that newer weapons would have better scaling and fix the problem.

[gigawuts]

It's alright. Things like this are rarely down to one problem. Katanas seem fairly weak. Fixing that issue would only make them seem slightly less weak. There are other issues to grapple with, such as the core function of the weapon having a 90 second cooldown, and an interruptible fistpump animation (oh come the fuck on with this one, god damnit sega an off-screen baridran poops on me so now I don't get my combat?)

[UnLucky]

i try'd FI/BR during falz arms and damage is terrible (maxed weak stance/weak stance up), seriously sub HU and forget BR as a viable sub class for anything other than FO or RA, unless you make a tree with maxed weak stance charge and learn to hit every enemy weak spot, but FI/HU will still outdamage a FI/BR in pretty much anything else.
Braver is a terrible subclass for anything other than Force, but even then it doesn't top Wise Stance. And if you're not using the correct element nor hitting an enemy's weak point (I do have to mention this, Fo/Fi is better lazy damage than Average Stance).

-Fi/Br would simply be a weaker Fi/Hu in all situations.
-Hu/Br would be weaker than Hu/Fi in most situations. Only time it trumps Brave Stance is with charged PAs on weak points. Or if you get a damage penalty from the wrong facing. But then there's Chase Advance.
-Ra/Br would be a weaker Ra/Hu in all situations.
-Gu/Br would be a weaker Gu/Ra hitting weak points, or weaker than a Gu/Hu in every situation.
-Te/Br would be worse than Fo/Te for casting, worse than Te/Hu for striking, and worse than Te/Fi for both.

That said, I'd like to see a Te/Br's Namegid. It's just the negligible PP regen that kills it for general use.

[Eternal255]

maybe its just me but maxing a stance i rarely turn on just kills me. wich is the case with wise. when brave up 2 comes wise is the first place i will look to subtract points.

agreed. i hate wise stance.

[hihihihi10x]

I need help with this BR/RA build.

http://ryuhiroshi.funpic.de/pso2/skillcalc.php?055nb3Ikb3Ikb3Ikb3Ikb3Ikb3Ikb3Ikfdt0 IbIn0000000lb000009bJdJ2iclkcA0000ib00000ib000000l b000000jebkb4N6JIHnHX0006

[gigawuts]

I need help with this BR/RA build.

http://ryuhiroshi.funpic.de/pso2/skillcalc.php?055nb3Ikb3Ikb3Ikb3Ikb3Ikb3Ikb3Ikfdt0 IbIn0000000lb000009bJdJ2iclkcA0000ib00000ib000000l b000000jebkb4N6JIHnHX0006

That looks very similar to what I'm using. The only difference is I opted for trap search because it's convenient seeing traps. My one recommendation is to take the last 2 SP out of Rapid Shoot and put them into JR Cover. That last bit of healing really makes the difference, and you lose essentially nothing by having RS a bit lower.

[Hrith]

It's hard to advise someone when we do not know how you prefer playing.

I do not undertsand why you'd max Rapid Shot itself, but if you like it, sure, why not.

Snatch Step is utter crap, though, and if you're going to get Just Reversal Cover at all, max it.

I would not max Weak Bullet when not playing RA main, unless you have a Holy Ray or plan to support a lot.

Killing Bonus on a sniping class? Well, get used to uncharged Kamikaze Arrow spam.

I agree with Red RAcast that Trap Search is probably more useful than a lot of the other skills you've got, but that's also preference.

It's still a nice build you have, all the basic needs of BR/RA are covered.