Please Help with GU/RA or RA/GU build

[MysticGoten]

I want to be a weak bullet using gunner with high damage. I am not sure about the best skills to fill.

I also plan to only raise my mag r-atk stat.

I have 5 extra sp in Ranger already, is it possible to get 5 more?

I have been playing as ranger and am finally thinking about making the switch to Gunner.

I am willing to buy spare skill trees if I have already messed up too much (wasted 3 points in rolling on gunner)

This is a build I saw that looked nice:
http://ryuhiroshi.ry.funpic.de/pso2/old/02/skillcalc.html?kDIYIkIYIkIYIkIYIkIYIkIYIkIbIn00000 0ib00000fdBJdJ29k0009b2QI2cFcIJd000Ib00000ib00000f

This is my current tree:
http://ryuhiroshi.funpic.de/pso2/skillcalc.php?04nAb3Ikb3IkIVI2Iyfb3Ikb3Ik0lbIn0000 009b00000fdBJdHSId6dq0008dBdDjbnIq0007b000009b0000 08

I am wondering if Killing Bonus for Ranger is worth it?

What points should my 8 points go into Gunner for? (work towards pp restorate or pump my chain skills).

Are the stylish roll skills worth it?

I am open to changing subclass to hunter (don't think I need to, I don't mind hitting the weak spots).

Seems like for AoE on gunner I will need to get an all class launcher.

Any other advice?

Thanks!

[UnLucky]

Another new Gunner thread? Can't you just use the designated discussion thread (http://www.pso-world.com/forums/showthread.php?t=200779)? It's even near the top of the list!

[loool]

You got horrible skill tree. Here is what you need.

http://ryuhiroshi.funpic.de/pso2/skillcalc.php?05eIb3Ikb3Ikb3Ikb3Ikb3Ikb3Ikb3Ik0lbI nqnGKsN6JiGA000007b000008dBJdJ29kcA0000ib2DHSfbncD GAgAbp0007b000000lb000000lb00000f

[Rexob]

First, I'm no pro Gu, and there are several ways to play Gu. I don't like relying on Chain Trigger, b/c I solo a lot, so I don't even use it. I wouldn't throw 10pts into Automate Deadline either. If you want a point there, sure, but place the rest into the Stylish Roll skills 2 > 5 > 5.

As a Gu you shouldn't be on the ground that often...you can mostly chain Stylish Rolls with PAs and rarely have to land.

Perfect Keeper isn't "awful", but anything NOT 100% and you lose the bonus...maybe invest 1 or 2 points at most unless you never get hit. I don't get hit often, but the bonus is only good at 100%. Zero Range Attack or R-ATK Up gives you a much more reliable guaranteed dmg boost.

Killing Bonus as Ra is a LOT of invested points into things you won't benefit from heavily as a Gu, but that also depends on playstyle. I constantly move, so dropping the needed 8SP into Stand Snipe 1 & 2 is a waste for me. You won't need 10SP into WB either - 3 at most in my opinion unless you just can't land your shot within 2 attempts. My Ra tree maxes Weak Hit Adv, 3 WB, and then the rest go to the R-ATK Up 1 & 2 and the rest I just dump into Ability Up 1 & 2.

You have a bit of flexibility depending on how you like playing.

I'm currently working on my Hu subclass though because it fits my playstyle - all TMGs where it doesn't matter where I hit an enemy or how close I am to them - I'm maxing out the JA bonus dmg.

[loool]

Chain Finish Lv10 encase he want to play Gu/Ra. Killing Bonus Lv10 for Ra/Hu. For Gu/Hu, it's already good to go.

[Edgewood]

For as many builds as have been recommended so far for Gu/Ra, it's going to come down to playstyle and preferences, but there are a few things to consider before you get started with your skill tree. When building for Gu/Ra, remember:

-Percentage-based bonuses are going to beat out static R-ATK bonuses because those calculations continue to scale as your equipment gets better
-The Ranger tree is primarily designed for either Rifle play or Trap play, and Traps are somewhat limited and more nuanced while granting no benefits to Gunner

Here's a link to a build I designed that capitalizes on percentage-based buffs: http://ryuhiroshi.funpic.de/pso2/skillcalc.php?05fb3Ikb3Ikb3Ikb3Ikb3Ikb3Ikb3Ik0lbIn 0000000lb000008dBJdJ29k0000lb2QHScFjGAgAbp0007b000 000lb000000lb00000f

Let's take a look at the Ranger tree first. You may be wondering, with Rexob's advice, why did I opt to max Weak Bullet? At level 10, you get four shots and a 90-second cooldown, allowing you to maximize its utility to both yourself and your party members. Weak Bullet is one of the best support skills in the game, and there's really nothing else to get on the Ranger tree. Why would you invest the points in R-ATK bonuses? If you adjust this build for Lv3 Weak Bullet, you can still only afford 56 R-ATK's worth of static bonuses. You know what 56 R-ATK is? Chump change. When you have the opportunity to keep a WB on a target for a long time, the net benefit to you is greater than a measly 56 R-ATK.

I also threw Just Reversal on that Ranger Tree. Just Reversal is a great technique that, when mastered, will get you back in the fight sooner and is very useful for bosses whose attack frames are as long as the time it takes for you to get up (Banthers and Falz, I'm lookin' at you). After purchasing all of the percentage-based bonuses on the RA tree, you have more than enough points left over to buy Just Reversal. You even have a few points left to spare!

Don't worry about Killing Bonus. It doesn't work when you're in Photon Art frames, so if you're throwing down Sneak Shots at WB'd targets, you're not making enough of a return on what little PP you already have to justify spending 10 points on the maximum bonus. Too few returns for what you spend. If you could get the bonus during PA's it'd be great, but you're going to be using PA's often even as a Gunner, so it doesn't synergize with your other class very well, either. Feel free to spend those leftover 10 points however you wish. You can afford to buy R-ATK UP 1 to Level 5 if you really feel you need it.

As for the Gunner tree, I eschew Chain Trigger in this one because of a handful of facts:

-It's really situational
-Getting a good Chain Finish requires a high chain and a Weak Bullet, both of which are easy enough to lose
-Namegid is the new boss killer, so the Gunner's role as a boss killer has been compromised a little as a result

On the tree I submitted is Perfect Keeper and Stylish Roll Just Attack Boost. Why Perfect Keeper? Even after Rexob said it was a pain? Because any problem with keeping your HP full can be mitigated through skill and the support of your party members. If you get scraped, heal yourself or get to a Force. Otherwise, Gunners have the best mobility in the game and a strafe dodge so you've got every tool you need to stay out of harm's way if you play effectively. You have to learn the skills, is all. Time and effort will do that for you. Plus, why wouldn't you want an additional 20% damage bonus?

Speaking of damage bonuses, let's look at some math for a moment. Ranger's combined percentage-based buffs (Weak Hit Advance 1 and 2, Standing Sniper 1 and 2) offer up a whopping 80% bonus damage. Gunner's percentage-based buffs (Zero Range Advance 1 and 2, Perfect Keeper, S.Roll JA Bonus) offer another 50% and a possible 200% if you Just Attack out of a Stylish Roll (Gunner dodge).

What's the catch with this potential 330% damage boost? It comes with a ton of stipulations, something that other classes got a better deal on. To get the initial 130% total damage boost from the RA and GU trees, you have to be standing still (TMG attack frames don't count as moving), hitting an enemy weak point (easy on Darkers and bosses) and right up in the enemy's face. Also, a Stylish Roll will reset any attack chain, so the second you JA out of it, your first PA or attack is what is eligible for the 200% bonus with S.Roll JA Bonus. That is a LOT of playstyle stipulations.

Now the question is, is all this nonsense worth it to you? I mean, being able to do all that damage to a weak spot is amazing, but do you want to be forced to follow a set of rules when doing damage?

As a pro Gu/Ra, skill and technique can make the bonuses pay off. It's up to you if you want to play this way.

Also, anyone suggesting Ra/Hu or Gu/Hu fails to understand that Fury Stance grants 15% LESS bonus damage to R-ATK and only gives a combined bonus of 50% for ranged attacks (another 20% comes from Just Attack Bonus skills). People are seeing Ra/Hu do tons of damage with Gunslash because of the way Gunslash PA's do damage calc, and there's no reason to pair Gunner with Hunter. The math doesn't lie.

[Rexob]

I don't disagree with anything Edgewood said, and people Pro Gu/Hu enjoy it because the damage is not as situational as the Gu/RA combo is. Maximizing the potential damage for Gu/Ra by Edgewood's build requires hitting the weak spot, standing still, 100%hp, and standing on top of your target to take advantage of Zero Range Advance. I have nothing against Gu/Ra which is actually better than my Gu/Hu currently, but maximizing Gu/Ra requires a LOT of conditions whereas Gu/Hu is simply - hit you JA attacks and win.

To each their own - as Edgewood mentions - it's about playstyle.

[Z-0]

/Hunter gives you 65% damage ~ 70% damage (depends if you get step attack or not, also depends on gears you might get for your hunter, but this is assuming step attack + part gear at worse). All you have to do is JA.

/Ranger, on the other hand, does a mere 50% damage instead, and you can only do 80% damage IF you are standing still. However, if you use S-Roll JA, you get 100% more attack which negates standing snipe.

In short, Gunner/Hunter is 165~170% boost (not counting Gunner's actual skills, I'm lazy), while Gunner/Ranger is only 150%. Gunner/Ranger will only be better if you are using rifles or launchers with Standing Snipe (+ Weak Bullet, of course).

Also, Gunslash PAs don't calculate any differently to Mechgun PAs...

[gigawuts]

/Hunter gives you 65% damage ~ 70% damage (depends if you get step attack or not, also depends on gears you might get for your hunter, but this is assuming step attack + part gear at worse). All you have to do is JA.

/Ranger, on the other hand, does a mere 50% damage instead, and you can only do 80% damage IF you are standing still. However, if you use S-Roll JA, you get 100% more attack which negates standing snipe.

In short, Gunner/Hunter is 165~170% boost (not counting Gunner's actual skills, I'm lazy), while Gunner/Ranger is only 150%. Gunner/Ranger will only be better if you are using rifles or launchers with Standing Snipe (+ Weak Bullet, of course).

Also, Gunslash PAs don't calculate any differently to Mechgun PAs...

You do this to me on purpose, don't you?

Hunter offers 93% more damage, or 84% with step attack on all JA'd attacks on all hitboxes at all times
Ranger offers 56% more damage if you hit weak points, or 107% more damage if you hit weak points AND qualify for standing snipe

[Z-0]

lol I know, I was too lazy to multiply everything, but the point still stands.

[UnLucky]

Don't worry about Killing Bonus. It doesn't work when you're in Photon Art frames, so if you're throwing down Sneak Shots at WB'd targets, you're not making enough of a return on what little PP you already have to justify spending 10 points on the maximum bonus. Too few returns for what you spend. If you could get the bonus during PA's it'd be great, but you're going to be using PA's often even as a Gunner, so it doesn't synergize with your other class very well, either. Feel free to spend those leftover 10 points however you wish. You can afford to buy R-ATK UP 1 to Level 5 if you really feel you need it.
It absolutely does work while using PAs. Just use Infinite Fire and you'll see you get PP back on (some) kills.


you have to be standing still (TMG attack frames don't count as moving)
They absolutely do count as moving. Stand still for your first shot and don't JA the next one either. The first attack will do more damage. Why? Because you step forward automatically while shooting.

If your character wasn't completely stationary for a moment before your attack, or you moved in any direction in 3D space, even if you did not intentionally do so, you do not get Standing Snipe.

[gigawuts]

If your location on your minimap moves even one pixel you no longer qualify for standing snipe. Jumping and falling also disqualify you.

There, the laymaniest terms I can think of.

[Edgewood]

If your location on your minimap moves even one pixel you no longer qualify for standing snipe. Jumping and falling also disqualify you.

There, the laymaniest terms I can think of.

SON OF A BITCH. >:/

So now I have to go and grind Hunter just to have a decent meta? God damnit. GOD DAMNIT.

[Dinosaur]

SON OF A BITCH. >:/

So now I have to go and grind Hunter just to have a decent meta? God damnit. GOD DAMNIT.

No, Gunner/Ranger is perfectly fine.

[Edgewood]

No, Gunner/Ranger is perfectly fine.

But it's not as rapetastic as it could be, especially since I need a tree reset before I can get the bonuses I need out of the Gunner tree (still have points in CT and CF and I'm just done with those for now). Also, GM, your Gu/Hu livestream videos helped start the Gu/Hu zeitgeist, so how would you suggest someone build a Gu/Ra to be competitive?

[UnLucky]

I'd suggest a Gu/Ra to still go for CF since their crowning glory is in killing bosses the fastest. If you try to copy the Gu/Hu and Ra/Hu builds, you'll just feel inferior to either one when mobbing, and once you WB the boss they'll all still be doing more damage than you.

SRoll JA + ZRA + PK + WHA is great for mobs, even if a few sacrifices must be made. Remember you can still get Standing Snipe with TMGs if you use SA or ER back-to-back in the air, or IF on the ground if you stand still near the end. Despite what you might hear, SRoll JA isn't absolutely necessary for every single attack. It takes time to perform, so it's not as clear cut as a passive double damage buff. You could actually get better burst DPS with Standing Snipe instead.

But with the power creep we're experiencing, as well as the easy 50% 10*s in the near future, bosses might already die "fast enough" to not need Gu/Ra, and they've been barred from AQs for a while now, but you can still find comfort in knowing that you have the best single target burst damage in the game.

[Edgewood]

Burst damage is great, but what if I want general mob-hunting damage? I always ran Gu/Ra under the assumption that my role in combat was boss killer and WB support, but if the Gu/Hu synergy can get my general combat output up then I can start contributing to PSE Bursts that aren't filled with Darkers (I am a Darker-killing machine). Here's my WB+CT tree as it stands: http://ryuhiroshi.funpic.de/pso2/skillcalc.php?05fb3Ikb3Ikb3Ikb3Ikb3Ikb3Ikb3Ik0lbIn 0000000lb000008dBJdJ29kcA0000ib2QHScFbncD4N0000Ib0 00000lb000000lb00000f

I don't have the points for S.Roll JA and a maxed Perfect Keeper unless I sacrifice CT completely. If the options are 'fit into a specific role' or 'be a general damage dealer', wouldn't it be better to take what I can get since Namegid is edging Gunner out of its role as the boss killer? I throw down a WB on a weak point, the Force or Techer's got the Namegid locked in, they're going to be able to blow up the boss before I can build enough chain to throw down 37k an individual strike in ER.

Also, since when did being in the air allow Standing Snipe bonuses? I thought being in jump cancelled that out since it counted as movement? And either way, Standing Snipe cannot compound with Heel Stab or Messiah Time so there's another bonus for Gu/Hu.

[Bellion]

Try getting rid of Attack PP Restorate and the 5 points in R-def to free up your SP.
Certain PAs when used consecutively in the air keep you still long enough for Standing Snipe Bonus, it has been working like that for a while.

[GALEFORCE]

wouldn't it be better to take what I can get since Namegid is edging Gunner out of its role as the boss killer? I throw down a WB on a weak point, the Force or Techer's got the Namegid locked in, they're going to be able to blow up the boss before I can build enough chain to throw down 37k an individual strike in ER.

Lol. That's not happening. To begin with, they can only do that because of your WB. Forces are very weak boss killers in general.