Just Started Force

[Killer Toaster]

just wondering if any of you guys have an idea of what i should be putting my sp into and for force if i should buy more than one tree to be more adaptive just need some input.

[UnLucky]

Always get PP Charge Revival, it's incredibly useful.

Then you just fill in the Element Masteries you want, Tech Charge/JA Bonuses, and Talis Bonus if you use one of those.

I say to just go a bit generalized for now and try out all the elements as you go. Now that Sega hands out free skill resets, you can afford to do it. Once you've got a feel over how you want to play Force, then you can decide how many elements you want to specialize in (read: how many extra trees you're willing to buy).

It's true that you can't be at your absolute best without a separate tree for each element, but you can still come pretty close (and you'll have to compromise anyway since not every area has enemies weak to only one element).

Specific builds are in my signature if you'd like to check em out.

[Coatl]

I also suggest making another character if you plan to wait for reset passes. You get one pass for every character on your account, so if you manage to obtain two then your options are that much less limited.

[jiasu73]

DONT PLAY FORCE! :(

[Chdata]

DO PLAY FORCE!

[Coatl]

Don't cast zonde from a rod.

[Zenobia]

Buy multiple skill trees if you can.

[Edson Drake]

Forces are great for starting out. People will say that they're weak...

It's kind of true, they lack the DPS of other classes, but you WILL laugh madly when your Namegid starts doing 150K damage and finishing those pesky arms.

I love Forces.

[Esofor]

the only thing i'm laughing at is how long it takes to cast namegid

[Inazuma]

Since they made Sazan 16 OP, it's not as important to have multiple skill trees as it used to be. For almost every situation, the following skill tree is best:

http://ryuhiroshi.funpic.de/pso2/skillcalc.php?06fbnIkbnIkbnIkbnIkbnIkbnIkbnIk0lbIn 0000000lb000009b000000lb0000084OI22SqxgAIAbnbngJIb rA0000jkbIdHXfgFI2J2lbi200009b000008

Throw a talis and cast Sazan. If there are a lot of enemies, you could gather them with Zondeel and then cast Sazan. That's pretty much the best way to go, regardless of the situation.

The following advice is assuming you do not have Elysion, which is the best casting weapon in the game. If you find one, you will need to reset your skill trees and possibly raise a new mag as well. Instead of using charged Sazan, you would instead be using uncharged Sazan.

You can find Sazan 16 from red containers, breakable domes, red colored Blufs, both kinds of drills, and also from Darkimes. It drops in the Super Hard Desert and also Floating Continent. The best quest to use is the Desert drilling Arks Quest. Make sure you do it on a PC block, because Blufs do not appear on Vita blocks.

[UnLucky]

Elysion is super extremely rare, but even if you got one, charged Sazan is 2x uncharged, so Elysion only breaks even with a maxed potential, but loses 22% damage from Tech Charge Advance, and being a wand essentially gives it a 0.2s charge time.

The Heretical talis is about 50% stronger per cast, so neither one can really be called the best. Windmill or Psycho Wand would have stronger Sazans than Elysion versus faster casting on a very specific build.

Not to mention pretty much none of this belongs in a thread titled "just started Force"

[Killer Toaster]

thanks for all the input so far and i don't need to wait for passes from sega to do extra trees or skill resets i got plenty of ac on my account so if anyone has any suggestions for multiple trees id be greatful

[Inazuma]

Elysion is super extremely rare, but even if you got one, charged Sazan is 2x uncharged, so Elysion only breaks even with a maxed potential, but loses 22% damage from Tech Charge Advance, and being a wand essentially gives it a 0.2s charge time.

The Heretical talis is about 50% stronger per cast, so neither one can really be called the best. Windmill or Psycho Wand would have stronger Sazans than Elysion versus faster casting on a very specific build.

Not to mention pretty much none of this belongs in a thread titled "just started Force"

Bigger numbers aren't everything. You have to factor in attack speed as well. Yeah, Tech Charge Advance doesn't work on uncharged techs, but you wouldn't be using that with Elysion. You would be using a different skill tree of course.

The damage would be a bit less than charged Sazan from a talis, but since you are able to attack much faster, you would end up having much higher DPS.

Windmill doesn't double the damage of uncharged techs, so it can't possibly compete with Elysion. Psycho Wand is a rod that reduces PP cost, so it's only useful in a few situations. Elysion is the best casting weapon in the game.

[UnLucky]

For Sazonde and Sazan only.

Any other tech and it's worse.

[Inazuma]

For Sazonde and Sazan only.

Any other tech and it's worse.

You know that Sazan and Sazonde are pretty much all you need for the entire game, right? You use Sazonde to shock Dark Falz Elder, and you use Sazan for every other situation. Oh, and uncharged Namegido would take care of bosses weak to dark. Elysion would be amazing since all of those techs are good uncharged.

The only exception would be bosses weak to fire. Using charged Nafoie from a rod would probably be best there. But it's not like using uncharged techs with Elysion would be bad. It would still be very good.

Just because something is best 99% of the time, doesn't mean it's horrible and should never be used. Also, you can change your skill tree/weapon/techs in this game, so don't act like we are unable to do that. If you were doing Rockbear boss rushes, you could still use charged Nafoie from a rod, if that is best.

*edit*
Actually, Elysion could be the best for bosses weak to fire. Even if you can only cast two uncharged techs in the time it takes to cast one charged tech, it could still end up surpassing charged Nafoie from a rod.

[Alma]

...but...uncharged tech EAT so much pp if you spam it nonstop
its good in theory but bad in practice

but whatever, i think we got a little derail from the OT ^^;

[.Jack]

A pure lightning tree would be a good starter. I hit about 5-6k on everything/all missions (with zonde) and 10K-ish lightning weak robots.

Once you get the hang of things later on you can look into a fire and wind tree if you can get AC for them that will be better for certain missions/situations, but for starters a lightning tree is a good start, IMO.

[UnLucky]

Actually, Elysion could be the best for bosses weak to fire. Even if you can only cast two uncharged techs in the time it takes to cast one charged tech, it could still end up surpassing charged Nafoie from a rod.
Wands take 0.6s to cast, anything else is 0.5s. Fire techs charge in 0.5s.

Nafoie is 2x damage charged, Elysion's potential is 2x uncharged.

Love Phoenix is 119 T-Atk higher than Elysion, with 12% damage without weather (read: vs bosses) and you lose 10% damage taking Normal Tech Advance instead of 2x Tech Charge.

So 67% faster casting, or 31% more damage per cast. Also note that spamming uncharged techs reduces your PP regen to 0, as well as the obvious 35 PP per cast.

Kinda funny seeing Mr. "I expect every Force to have multiple trees" promoting using a single tech in every situation. There's no way Sazan has better mobbing potential than Gibarta, Foie/Gifoie, or Zondeel when targeting elemental weakness. I've used it, its range is shit, and manually aiming it at the ground is a pain and a half.

[Inazuma]

Wands take 0.6s to cast, anything else is 0.5s. Fire techs charge in 0.5s.

Nafoie is 2x damage charged, Elysion's potential is 2x uncharged.

Love Phoenix is 119 T-Atk higher than Elysion, with 12% damage without weather (read: vs bosses) and you lose 10% damage taking Normal Tech Advance instead of 2x Tech Charge.

So 67% faster casting, or 31% more damage per cast. Also note that spamming uncharged techs reduces your PP regen to 0, as well as the obvious 35 PP per cast.

Kinda funny seeing Mr. "I expect every Force to have multiple trees" promoting using a single tech in every situation. There's no way Sazan has better mobbing potential than Gibarta, Foie/Gifoie, or Zondeel when targeting elemental weakness. I've used it, its range is shit, and manually aiming it at the ground is a pain and a half.

I forgot that fire techs charge twice as fast as other elements. So yeah, looks like Nafoie from a rod would be best for bosses weak to fire. Other than that, Elysion would be best.

PSO2 is an online game that is always changing. Back when having multiple skill trees was important, I said that having multiple skill trees was important. Now that Sazan 16 is OP, you can do very well with just one skill tree. I used to use rods primarily, when rods were great. Now that talises are better, I use talises. If I find Elysion, I will mostly use that, because that is better than talises.

You were one of the people arguing with me about talises, saying that rods were still better. Now I see that you understand. Maybe after some more time passes, you will see how Sazan is the best tech in almost every situation, and that Elysion is the best casting weapon.

[moeri]

I forgot that fire techs charge twice as fast as other elements. So yeah, looks like Nafoie from a rod would be best for bosses weak to fire. Other than that, Elysion would be best.

PSO2 is an online game that is always changing. Back when having multiple skill trees was important, I said that having multiple skill trees was important. Now that Sazan 16 is OP, you can do very well with just one skill tree. I used to use rods primarily, when rods were great. Now that talises are better, I use talises. If I find Elysion, I will mostly use that, because that is better than talises.

You were one of the people arguing with me about talises, saying that rods were still better. Now I see that you understand. Maybe after some more time passes, you will see how Sazan is the best tech in almost every situation, and that Elysion is the best casting weapon.

I would also assume that would mean Te/Fi is the best general caster then? Since you get almost nothing from Fo when casting uncharged techs. Since wand gear and everything is down the same path you could probably even get that and be "decent" at melee with Fi stances. Only other thing I could see this being worse at would be a Fo/Te+psycho using namegid (with weakness) against a theoretical boss that took over 10 minutes to kill. This is only because PP efficiency becomes the major factor over extended combat (which we don't have).

Other than that saying that Sazan is better than all other techs "without" Elysion seems a bit uncertain. There just seems to be too many variables and things perform too closely.

[Zenobia]

You guys who claim to main FO and w/e subclasses should really try to experiment and delve deeper into how much better your classes have changed cause I think some of you minus Unlucky, Inazuma, Bellion and Giga don't really try to gain as much info on your class as you can.

Ofc I know no one in this thread besides him does not have an Elysion, but to clear up any misguided confusion I am going to link this here.

Also apologies for off topic with this post but it was just clear up how ppl think of techer as you can do much more than use it for melee all the time.


Mmm...that's funny. I just finished fooling around with an Elysion. I like uncharged Sazan spamming on mobs, but I still prefer charged Zan on bosses due to PP problems.

And yeah, it doubles uncharged damage. I thought it was +200% because it used to be +18% at lvl 3.
[SPOILER-BOX]
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kn9v1JEKc38[/SPOILER-BOX]

[Skyly HUmar]

You know that Sazan and Sazonde are pretty much all you need for the entire game, right?


You know that any class can go through the entire game doing only 1 thing right? lol just wanted to put that out there.

[Inazuma]

You know that any class can go through the entire game doing only 1 thing right? lol just wanted to put that out there.

The problem is that Sazan is the best tech in almost every situation. Sazonde is to shock Dark Falz Elder. You were trying to poke fun at me for not understanding the game, but all you did was highlight your own ignorance of techniques.

[Skyly HUmar]

The problem is that Sazan is the best tech in almost every situation. Sazonde is to shock Dark Falz Elder. You were trying to poke fun at me for not understanding the game, but all you did was highlight your own ignorance of techniques.

No, i was just throwing a joke out there which you seem to have taken seriously lol.

[NoiseHERO]

Try making a fo using only light techs

[Link1275]

Try making a fo using only light techs
Grants spam for the win. It can actually be quite useful if you're charging it. I'm not sure about Nagrants though, I haven't seen any footage of it in PSO2 so I don't know what it does....